quake3/gaim in bb
Does anyone have this problem: when playing quake3 fullscreen, if someone messages me in gaim, the gaim messege window appears overlayed in my game view. Nothing freezes, but it's annoying that i must exit quake3 and quit gaim so it doesnt happen. Basically, when playing, i see a messege window appear in game play. This _only_ happens in Blackbox, and have run E alone, and KDE with nothing similar to this happening. Blackbox versions: 0.62.1, and current CVS pull of today. And Xfree-4.2 just in case it's Xfree. -- ~Anh Lai [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'v' Bachelors of Computer Engineering at UIUC // \\ /( )\ ^`~'^ ... Linux ... ain't it cool?
Re: quake3/gaim in bb
On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 02:44:58AM -0600, Anh Lai wrote: Does anyone have this problem: when playing quake3 fullscreen, if someone messages me in gaim, the gaim messege window appears overlayed in my game view. Nothing freezes, but it's annoying that i must exit quake3 and quit gaim so it doesnt happen. Basically, when playing, i see a messege window appear in game play. This _only_ happens in Blackbox, and have run E alone, and KDE with nothing similar to this happening. Blackbox versions: 0.62.1, and current CVS pull of today. And Xfree-4.2 just in case it's Xfree. Does blackbox know when a window is going into 'fullscreen mode'? If it just didn't raise any non-fullscreen windows above fullscreen windows, then this wouldn't be a problem any longer. Also, that would/should fix the bug with autoraise and fullscreen SDL applications. xOr -- I am damn unsatisfied to be killed in this way. msg05357/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: bb and transient windows
-Original Message- From: Sean 'Shaleh' Perry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 5:14 AM To: Anatoly Asviyan Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fw: RE: bb and transient windows The team is working on getting NET WM support in blackbox I'd like to help with it. how can I join? who is team/work coordinator? Regards, Anatoly
Re: 0.62.1 released!
well, i can actually move windows with this release! always a helpful thing to be able to do. one thing i'm curious about: gkrellm no longer has the usual window border in the 0.62.* releases. is there a reason for this? since i try to make gkrellm match my blackbox style as closely as possible, its lack of a window border is wrecking the beauty of my desktop. sorry to complain about something so minor, but there you have it. it's often the little things that are the most annoying. t. ps - i hope i'm not going to get 50 replies telling me that gkrellm will run in the slit. i know it will do this, but i prefer to run it stand-alone. -- 4.0k -rw-rw-r--1 zork zork 17 Apr 4 17:38 .signature
Re: 0.62.1 released!
On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 13:32, cthulhain wrote: one thing i'm curious about: gkrellm no longer has the usual window border in the 0.62.* releases. is there a reason for this? What usual window border are you referring to? I've just check gkrellm in and out of the slit and it runs the same for me now (under 0.62.1) as it did previously under 0.61. ps - i hope i'm not going to get 50 replies telling me that gkrellm will run in the slit. i know it will do this, but i prefer to run it stand-alone. nope, just don't quite follow what's missing. Jamin W. Collins
Re: 0.62.1 released!
In the gothic chambers of the underworld on Wed 06 Feb 2002 at 14:47 -0500, Jamin W. Collins muttered darkly: What usual window border are you referring to? I've just check gkrellm in and out of the slit and it runs the same for me now (under 0.62.1) as it did previously under 0.61. http://lordzork.com/~zork/tmp/gkrellm-0.61.png and http://lordzork.com/~zork/tmp/gkrellm-0.62.1.png t. -- 4.0k -rw-rw-r--1 zork zork 17 Apr 4 17:38 .signature
RE: bb and transient windows
On 05-Feb-2002 Asviyan, Anatoly wrote: -Original Message- From: Sean 'Shaleh' Perry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 5:14 AM To: Anatoly Asviyan Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fw: RE: bb and transient windows The team is working on getting NET WM support in blackbox I'd like to help with it. how can I join? who is team/work coordinator? We do not require help, just time. The issue is we have to redesign the guts of blackbox in a few places. More people will not help this. Thanks though.
Re: 0.62.1 released!
On 06-Feb-2002 cthulhain wrote: In the gothic chambers of the underworld on Wed 06 Feb 2002 at 14:47 -0500, Jamin W. Collins muttered darkly: What usual window border are you referring to? I've just check gkrellm in and out of the slit and it runs the same for me now (under 0.62.1) as it did previously under 0.61. xOr put in some updates to honour requests from the clients. I suspect the window border has been a bug.
Re: quake3/gaim in bb
On 06-Feb-2002 xOr wrote: On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 02:44:58AM -0600, Anh Lai wrote: Does anyone have this problem: when playing quake3 fullscreen, if someone messages me in gaim, the gaim messege window appears overlayed in my game view. Nothing freezes, but it's annoying that i must exit quake3 and quit gaim so it doesnt happen. Basically, when playing, i see a messege window appear in game play. This _only_ happens in Blackbox, and have run E alone, and KDE with nothing similar to this happening. Blackbox versions: 0.62.1, and current CVS pull of today. And Xfree-4.2 just in case it's Xfree. Does blackbox know when a window is going into 'fullscreen mode'? If it just didn't raise any non-fullscreen windows above fullscreen windows, then this wouldn't be a problem any longer. Also, that would/should fix the bug with autoraise and fullscreen SDL applications. On this topic (forgive me I am not a gamer and generally do not own cool enough hardware to run most games) what does 'fullscreen mode' mean? Is this something like DGA? I suspect I will have to track down the source and look.
Re: quake3/gaim in bb
On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 15:17, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote: On this topic (forgive me I am not a gamer and generally do not own cool enough hardware to run most games) what does 'fullscreen mode' mean? Is this something like DGA? I suspect I will have to track down the source and look. Not sure of the complete technical breakdown in terms of what it means to Blackbox, but in essence Fullscreen items take over the complete display (no decoration of any kind). I don't believe this requires DGA. If it would help, I could whip up a really minor fullscreen SDL application (any video card should be able to run it) for testing with. Jamin W. Collins
Re: quake3/gaim in bb
Not sure of the complete technical breakdown in terms of what it means to Blackbox, but in essence Fullscreen items take over the complete display (no decoration of any kind). I don't believe this requires DGA. If it would help, I could whip up a really minor fullscreen SDL application (any video card should be able to run it) for testing with. What would be more helpful is to see the X call they make to enable this mode. If they set a hint or a flag blackbox should be intercepting. I will grep the E source and see if I find anything there. Between E, wmaker, and kwin I tend to find things pretty easily.
Re: bb and transient windows
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 13:15:15 -0800 (PST) From: Sean 'Shaleh' Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Asviyan, Anatoly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: bb and transient windows Cc: BlackBox (E-mail) [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 05-Feb-2002 Asviyan, Anatoly wrote: From: Sean 'Shaleh' Perry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] The team is working on getting NET WM support in blackbox I'd like to help with it. how can I join? who is team/work coordinator? We do not require help, just time. The issue is we have to redesign the guts of blackbox in a few places. More people will not help this. Thanks though. Sean, are you sure you want to fend off other people from any stage of the development of blackbox? -- FreeBSD 4.4-STABLE 11:02PM up 17 days, 5:26, 11 users, load averages: 0.01, 0.03, 0.00
Re: quake3/gaim in bb
On 06-Feb-2002 Jamin W. Collins wrote: On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 15:17, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote: On this topic (forgive me I am not a gamer and generally do not own cool enough hardware to run most games) what does 'fullscreen mode' mean? Is this something like DGA? I suspect I will have to track down the source and look. Not sure of the complete technical breakdown in terms of what it means to Blackbox, but in essence Fullscreen items take over the complete display (no decoration of any kind). I don't believe this requires DGA. If it would help, I could whip up a really minor fullscreen SDL application (any video card should be able to run it) for testing with. Jamin W. Collins hm, on initial reading of the SDL code they simply raise the window to the top and make it cover the whole screen. Near as I can see they set no special hint or flag letting the wm know this. Best thing blackbox could do at that point would be refusing to raise the dialog if the parent was not visible. But then that raises other issues. Not sure what the right approach is here.
Re: bb and transient windows
Sean, are you sure you want to fend off other people from any stage of the development of blackbox? Right now, today yes. Too many cooks are not what I need. xOr and I are sufficent for the current task. We have worked out what there is to do and just need to do it. The work is time intensive because of the care involved. Unless someone is intimately familiar with the blackbox code there is little help they could offer. Even then, we run into the too many hackers on one source tree problem. The code will be substantially altered internally. As a user you should not notice.
RE: bb and transient windows
On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 16:15, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote: The team is working on getting NET WM support in blackbox I'd like to help with it. how can I join? who is team/work coordinator? We do not require help, just time. The issue is we have to redesign the guts of blackbox in a few places. More people will not help this. Thanks though. Um. I don't see why you would discourage help so quickly. At very least more people means more eyes and more ideas. Heck, even having people bug testing, trying to break things, can only help. -- Ryan Patrick Harris (maxter) [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Michigan EECS http://maxtersbox.net
RE: bb and transient windows
Um. I don't see why you would discourage help so quickly. At very least more people means more eyes and more ideas. Heck, even having people bug testing, trying to break things, can only help. I have always released pre releases whenever they would compile. This will continue.
an explanation of the upcoming weeks
There has been some concerned raised and I want to discuss this on its own thread so no one misses it. In the upcoming weeks there is going to be a major change in the blackbox internals. Part of this is to remove the home brew linked list code and use the STL. Part of this is to allow for support of the NET WM spec (compliance with KDE and eventually GNOME). Part of the effort is simply refactoring which happens to code every now and then as part of its life cycle. This is one of those times in programming where everything stops because one change breaks everything. The classes in blackbox are tightly interwoven and a seemingly small change causes havoc everywhere. Also some of the actions the net wm spec desires are not easily performed with the current code. An example of this is the _NET_CLIENT_LIST. blackbox is expected to return a list of every open window it manages. The only way to implement this currently is to loop over each workspace requesting its internal window list and make one long list. Then we convert this list to the format the message must be sent back in. Rather than write more list code I would like to use standard C++ style container classes. More C++ people understand them which will allow for more people to hack on blackbox. When we have changed how blackbox talks to external programs we must then rewrite all of the bbtools to support this new mechanism instead of the proprietary protocol we use now. Rather than do this for every bbtool we have decided to create a blackbox foundation class library which contains all of the bits that makes a bbtool look and feel like a part of blackbox. This way people can write blackbox native apps faster as well as keep in sync with bug fixes from the group. Currently each tool has a copied fork of code from the window manager and each one is at a different place in the tree. Some of them have bugs fixed a year ago while others have features not found in the others. Yes, in a small way this duplicates the KDE/GNOME/XFCE/whatever group's work. But that is our choice. The other alternative is to force blackbox and friends to depend on an external toolkit and all of the dependencies that brings with it. This new class lib will *NOT* be a replacement for a full featured system like KDE. It is meant for writing small apps like the pager or bbmail. Basically it will provide easy access to the net wm atoms and to the gradient code which gives blackbox its unique look. It will also provide the i18n class for easy translation into other languages. As you can see there is quite a bit to work on. Let me assure you that once things get into full swing patches and suggestions will be welcomed. But the initial work MUST follow the laid out plan and be executed by those who are familiar with the code base as well as C++. This is not the time for new coders looking to learn their trade. You can do that by helping flesh out the foundation classes, report bugs, add features, etc. when the time is right. To assist those eager to help, during this restructuring I intend to document every class, method, and variable of importance in blackbox. doxygen is a quite nifty tool and blackbox will be structured to support auto documenting of its internals with it. Let me just finish by saying it is wonderful that people want to help. Normally I would welcome the help. My Debian bugs often end with Patches welcome and that has been my attitude on this list as well. Once cvs has the new code base in it feel free to start submitting ideas, patches, etc. Thank you for the support.
Re: bb and transient windows
Sean 'Shaleh' Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Um. I don't see why you would discourage help so quickly. At very least more people means more eyes and more ideas. Heck, even having people bug testing, trying to break things, can only help. I have always released pre releases whenever they would compile. This will continue. I also was put off by the rather harsh thanks, but NO thanks. Are you going to update the anonymous CVS-tree regularly? That would give other interested parties at least the possibility to view the progress and submit patches (yes, sometimes somebody else _does_ find something that you or xOr may have overlooked). -Jan -- finger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
OT: fighting with CVS
Hello, sorry to post this here, but I understand from the messages on this list that most of you are way more familiar with cvs than I am. The problem below is certainly easy for you: please send any answer privately, to avoid load on this list. Now the problem. I am having troubles in uploading to savannah.gnu.org the web pages of a project I am going to start (and which will refer to blackbox, BTW, details later), because I've never needed cvs before. I have installed the cvs rpm, generated a shared key payr with open ssh, etc... I have all the html files in a directory, named HTML. I haven't found what is the correct cvs command to put all the HTML files on the savannah server. All the examples in the savannah site don't work for one reason or another. The best I've managed to do is , when I run the **exact** command suggested on the site: cvs -z3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/webcvs/ co non-gnu/rule to get a directory named non-gnu on MY disk. Any help is really appreciated!! Marco Fioretti -- Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of man and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. Mark Twain ___ enigma-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/enigma-list - End forwarded message - -- If automobiles had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside. --Robert Cringley
Re: OT: fighting with CVS
just some info I forgot to paste to the initial message. Sorry again for the waste of bandwidth, and thanks in advance for any help. TIA, Marco friend said: Try ci (check in) instead of co (check out). and my answer was: Forrest, I get what follows. I understand that I must tell CVS in some way that the source directory (the one containing the stuff to be put on the server) is /home/marco/PROJECTS/RULE/HTML, but I must be really missing some basic point here. Look at this output: cvs -z3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/webcvs/ ci HTML cvs commit: Examining HTML cvs commit: in directory HTML: cvs [commit aborted]: there is no version here; do 'cvs checkout' first [marco@polaris RULE]$ cvs checkout cvs checkout: No CVSROOT specified! Please use the `-d' option cvs [checkout aborted]: or set the CVSROOT environment variable. [marco@polaris RULE]$ export CVSROOT /home/marco/PROJECTS/RULE/HTML bash: export: `/home/marco/PROJECTS/RULE/HTML': not a valid identifier [marco@polaris RULE]$ export CVSROOT=/home/marco/PROJECTS/RULE/HTML [marco@polaris RULE]$ cvs checkout cvs checkout: No CVSROOT specified! Please use the `-d' option cvs [checkout aborted]: or set the CVSROOT environment variable. [marco@polaris RULE]$ export CVSROOT=/home/marco/PROJECTS/RULE/HTML [marco@polaris RULE]$ cvs checkout cvs [checkout aborted]: /home/marco/PROJECTS/RULE/HTML/CVSROOT: No such file or directory [marco@polaris RULE]$ cp mkdir HTML/CVSROOT cp: cannot stat `mkdir': No such file or directory -- According to one popular definition, craziness is doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results.
Re: bb and transient windows
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 17:46:41 -0500 From: Jan Schaumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BlackBox (E-mail) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: bb and transient windows Sean 'Shaleh' Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Um. I don't see why you would discourage help so quickly. At very least more people means more eyes and more ideas. Heck, even having people bug testing, trying to break things, can only help. I have always released pre releases whenever they would compile. This will continue. Umm, why did you say you don't use CVS? -- FreeBSD 4.4-STABLE 12:21AM up 17 days, 6:45, 11 users, load averages: 0.01, 0.02, 0.00
Re: bb and transient windows
I also was put off by the rather harsh thanks, but NO thanks. Are you going to update the anonymous CVS-tree regularly? That would give other interested parties at least the possibility to view the progress and submit patches (yes, sometimes somebody else _does_ find something that you or xOr may have overlooked). I have been updating cvs about once a week. It is current of my own devel tree. Right now it has initial support for what is called 'strut' by the net spec. It allows applications like pagers to ask for part of the screen. So instead of your screen being 1024x768 at (0,0) if the toolbar is on the top of your screen the available screen area will be (0, 16) and 1024x752. Same with the slit. Right now only the toolbar and slit are supported but eventualy any app can make this request. This means bbpager will no longer be covered by a maximized window. Unless of course you set the allow full maximization flag. This code simplifies many other functions in blackbox like the placeWindow code. it also shows a failing in our handling of the window border which is why I have not made a big deal about the code yet. Here soon I will have the code from my laptop to upload which fixes the issue with updating the focus model causing every object in blackbox to recieve a reconfigure() request. My apologies if I sounded harsh to anyone. I hope the mail I just sent will help alleviate any concerns in the community.
Re: bb and transient windows
On 06-Feb-2002 Roman Neuhauser wrote: Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 17:46:41 -0500 From: Jan Schaumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BlackBox (E-mail) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: bb and transient windows Sean 'Shaleh' Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Um. I don't see why you would discourage help so quickly. At very least more people means more eyes and more ideas. Heck, even having people bug testing, trying to break things, can only help. I have always released pre releases whenever they would compile. This will continue. Umm, why did you say you don't use CVS? I do not like it is the simple answer. Development tools are supposed to make my job easier. CVS just gets in my way all the time. I am looking forward to experimenting with arch. However since I do not have a server to host the repository on it will only be a toy. Another thing is I have been coding often on my laptop and currently my only way to get files from it is via a floppy. cvs assumes you have a network or are willing to patch and commit. Personally, I would rather people use the tarballs I release. Frankly the need to download code just because it is new has never made sense to me. Yesterday CVS did not even compile. I just never had that much time on my hands I suppose.
Re: an explanation of the upcoming weeks
On Wednesday 06 February 2002 15:39, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote: There has been some concerned raised and I want to discuss this on its own thread so no one misses it. In the upcoming weeks there is going to be a major change in the blackbox internals. Part of this is to remove the home brew linked list code and use the STL. Part of this is to allow for support of the NET WM spec (compliance with KDE and eventually GNOME). Part of the effort is simply refactoring which happens to code every now and then as part of its life cycle. I am assuming you have done some serious investigation into using the STL containers in Blackbox. I am quite unfamiliar with the BB code base, but I have a great deal of experience using the STL. My development experience has brought me to some opinions/realizations. The STL is slow. In all of my development experience, when speed and efficiency are heavy requirements, the STL is most like not the best implementation of a solution. Since speed is a major drawing point to blackbox users, how will a new implementation under the STL containers affect that? The STL is very bloated. No denying that. Since another drawing point to Blackbox is the small size, how will a new implementation with the STL affect that too? I know in my past experiences, that coding a solution where I based the design on the STL originally, ended up being scraped and a home brewed solution was created. In fact, it is mostly a linked list implementation(s) when speed is vital that I discovered this. Vectors are great containers, and easy to use when you just need a container, and don't care how slow things are (ie GUI). Maps are horendously slow in any case. Deques, and Queues fall in between somewhere IIRC. Maybe some more details on the specifics of the changes could be good. From the code I looked at it seems to only use lists? Which would be converted to vectors correct? I'm not throwing the sword down and saying _Don't_ by any means. I am just concerned to a major switch like this. I would fear that using the STL containers could possibly be a detriment. This is one of those times in programming where everything stops because one change breaks everything. The classes in blackbox are tightly interwoven and a seemingly small change causes havoc everywhere. Also some of the actions the net wm spec desires are not easily performed with the current code. An example of this is the _NET_CLIENT_LIST. blackbox is expected to return a list of every open window it manages. The only way to implement this currently is to loop over each workspace requesting its internal window list and make one long list. Then we convert this list to the format the message must be sent back in. Rather than write more list code I would like to use standard C++ style container classes. More C++ people understand them which will allow for more people to hack on blackbox. Maybe I am missing something in the code I looked at, but as for the _NET_CLIENT_LIST. When a new window is created it is added into the workspace window list. Why not maintain a list of window pointers in the BlackBox class, and add the same pointer to that list as well. It is just a list of pointers right? It's small, maintains the speed, and no more code for a list. Am I missing something. For that matter, if Blackbox itself needs to know all of the windows it manages, shouldn't it keep the master list of windows so to speak, and then each workspace keeps track of which windows from the master it has? Maybe some redesign of the classes / interaction is more in order than re-doing the implementation. (No offense to the original designers and implementors) :-) As for a better understanding. Some will argue the point of STL/no STL. I personally feel if you can not figure out the LinkedList class from looking at the header file, you have no business being in the code anyways. It is a common, and straight forward class. I must say the BlackBox code in whole is very, very nice. Period. If you are not at a level where you can gain from reading the code base already there, then which implementation used will be of no benefit either way to you. I do not mean for this message to come off as anti-*, it is just my ponderances on a few things. That's all. Andy
