Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status
Hi :) I like the way the website is at the moment. I also quite like the proposed screenshot except that i would prefer the download button on the left so that people can access it without having to scroll sideways. Ok, it may not be perfect for everyone but what we have got works well. It might be a good time to stand back from the website and look at what we have while we push forwards in other strategic areas. Perfection is a great goal but we need to get basics in place first and we seem to already have more than that with the website. It is pleasant, informative, uncluttered and fast. It is easy to reach the download buttons. Do we really need it more perfect than it is already? I think congratulations are due to everyone involved and it is great that we have ideas building up and being finalised but i am not sure we have to action them hastily? Anarchy? My background is mostly in co-operative organisations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative but i agree that getting work done can be more important than discussions as long as there is room to make changes or revert to previous versions after-the-fact. I don't see this as a contradiction but many people new to co-operatives or other non-hierarchical structures often assume that discussion about every tiny point is vital. It isn't. Getting the job done is usually far more important. The wider group may set policy or determine house/company style based on early experimentation. Anyone 'should' be free to express an opinion and stupid questions may reveal a possibility for useful innovation but the people doing the work have to be free to get on with the work. Ideas and suggestions are good if they help get the work done but if they are not immediately useful they 'should' be ignored or allowed to grow into something more useful later. Anyone 'should' be free to do sundry jobs under the direction of the main worker(s) as though being mentored for a while if that helps get the work done. It sometimes helps to split into 'temporary' roles such as one person/group working mainly on content and the other mainly on look-and-feel, each able to make suggestions to the other team/person. Note that 4/5 (80%) of new businesses FAIL in the first 2 years when they are set up in a traditional hierarchical format with 1 top boss dictating and no-one else feeling like they have any ownership of the project. By contrast only 2/5 (40%) of new worker co-operatives fail in the first 2 years. Innovation is crucial and we seldom get that from 1 single leader. The trick is getting people empowered, perhaps helping finding/developing their best area, so they can work on the projects too. I don't really think we need to discuss this now and it might be disruptive to do so. It is worth considering that we need a more fluid dynamic here than most people are used to in the outside world. I hope this helps otherwise just ignore it! Good luck and regards from Tom :) From: David Nelson comme...@traduction.biz To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org Sent: Wed, 22 December, 2010 0:54:11 Subject: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status Hi, :-) On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 07:39, Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote: Hi David, all, once again, please don't think I would not appreciate your great work, even if I try to improve the look and feel of the welcome page. snip Please have a look at Christoph's proposal: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bbnG0Hny0SpccJIZsGp72A?feat=directlink I must admit that, personally, I don't find this layout attractive at all, although it gives some general indicators about content positioning. I'm sorry, that I can't design a mockup at the moment. Time is short even for adding the short phases... I *have* read your ideas, and will carefully read them and think about them again as I finish off this first version of the site content. I am doing my best to take account of your comments and the comments of other people in what I'm doing. But, sometimes, the proposals and reactions are so sharply contrasting that it is difficult or impossible to please everybody. The problem is that it is *extremely* difficult to work in the current situation: it's a kind of contributive anarchy, with no-one having a clearly-appointed lead role in particular areas of the project. Thus, the only conclusion you can arrive at is this: the people that actually *do* work are the ones that get to call the shots. If they are good community members, they will do their best to take account of other people's opinions. But, in many cases, one has to take a decision, and the decision will inevitably dissatisfy someone. Such is the case in what I'm presently doing. I observed how, after long discussions on the mailing lists and various conference calls, the website team
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status
Hi David :) I prefer http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bbnG0Hny0SpccJIZsGp72A?feat=directlink because it has less information and looks prettier. Sadly, that seems to be what people want. Information confuses people and seems to need to be on subsequent pages. Also the picture on http://test.libreoffice.org took ages to appear and people don't seem to have patience beyond a couple of milliseconds and when it appeared the first image was 'horribly' complicated. Isn't it a gif? Could it be less size byte-wise? By contrast competitors websites show almost nothing and give almost no information. We see pictures of smart people in suits looking at a flashy computer. We see pictures of grannies leaning over toddlers both engaged with whatever is going on on a more sensible looking computer. We see a young attractive 'housewife' sitting on over-large creamy coloured sofa either posing sexily or demurely (or both) and looking at a flashy laptop. If we ever see the screen then there is some simple pie-chart of bar-graph or sometimes they risk showing a line-graph (for business users). Personally i do like the narrower format because i have not yet followed 'everyone else' to widescreen. Also for me personally (probably fairly typically for a linux user) i do prefer having useful information right there fast without having to dig around for it and the picture is what i personally like as a linux-user because it show me useful stuff. The info was well written, compelling and succinct, telling me exactly the sorts of things that people ask whenever they find me using OpenOffice (one that still has the Sun logo). However, while it may be great for existing linux-users we are not typical of the general population out-there that we need to reach. I do think both are great and both do the job of easy access to the download. The text needs to be somewhere on the site and preferably just 1 click away or reached when the page is scrolled down, something easy. I would say keep the one we have already or switch to the one that is closest to completion whichever one that is. Regards from Tom :) PS this is only my opinion and i might be a little bitter and twisted nowadays From: David Nelson comme...@traduction.biz To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org Sent: Wed, 22 December, 2010 9:54:34 Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status Hi Tom, :-) Interesting thoughts. ;-) But, actually, the site under discussion is http://test.libreoffice.org What are your thoughts on that one? David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status
Hi Tom! Am Mittwoch, den 22.12.2010, 10:33 + schrieb Tom Davies: Hi David :) I prefer http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bbnG0Hny0SpccJIZsGp72A?feat=directlink because it has less information and looks prettier. Sadly, that seems to be what people want. Information confuses people and seems to need to be on subsequent pages. Also the picture on Well, there is no the people ... there are people having different requirements and living/working in different environments. Some guys want to have in-depth information in advance, some consume basic information and just want to give things a try. Thus, it is not about hiding information, but to provide it step-by-step - managing the concept what people can grasp. That is why I think that we miss the requirements of quite some users at the moment ... http://test.libreoffice.org took ages to appear and people don't seem to have patience beyond a couple of milliseconds and when it appeared the first image was 'horribly' complicated. Isn't it a gif? Could it be less size byte-wise? Same for me ... By contrast competitors websites show almost nothing and give almost no information. [...] I do think both are great and both do the job of easy access to the download. The text needs to be somewhere on the site and preferably just 1 click away or reached when the page is scrolled down, something easy. Yep. I would say keep the one we have already or switch to the one that is closest to completion whichever one that is. I'd say ... whatever helps us to satisfy the needs of the majority of our users. So even if it might take some additional work, it seems worth the effort. Regards from Tom :) PS this is only my opinion and i might be a little bitter and twisted nowadays Sorry to hear that :-\ Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status
Hi, :-) On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 18:33, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: PS this is only my opinion and i might be a little bitter and twisted nowadays My favorite cartoon is Dilbert [1] ... At least one knows one isn't alone in one's views. ;-D [1] http://dilbert.com/register/ David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] We have a stand at FOSDEM!
Yep, their fault ;) Heinz W. Simoneit wrote on 2010-12-22 13.13: shouldn't it read: *2011* ?:-) -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] We have a stand at FOSDEM!
Merry Christmas, Tom. ;-) On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 21:02, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Good luck merry Christmas everyone that is observant and everyone else i hope you have a good time too :) Regards from Tom :) David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] We have a stand at FOSDEM!
Woohoo! Thanks Florian and everyone else for this! Charles. Le Wed, 22 Dec 2010 12:41:21 +0100, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org a écrit : Good news everyone :-) I just received the following mail: Your request for a stand of LibreOffice at FOSDEM 2010 has been accepted, and we will put the following at your disposal: - on Saturday from 10:00 to 18:00 and Sunday from 10:00 to 17:00, - 2 table(s) of 2 meter width and 1 meter depth, 2 seats per table, - most probably in the H building (subject to change), - best-effort wireless interenet and one(!) type C/E power plug. If you want to decline this offer, please tell us as soon as possible. We provide only one power plug per stand, but you can hook up several multi-socket power chords. Because we can not provide those for every stand, we must ask you to bring your own multi-socket power chords. To make the stands look more professional, we would also like to ask you to bring a table cloth that covers the table and the front of it. The front side is a very good place to put your logo and name in large on, this will increase your visibility. We will stick A4 sheets with your project name on the tables, so you'll know where to install stuff. The best time to build up your stands in the H building is around 09:00. From 09:30-10:00 the people start to rush in, heading for the opening talks. In the AW building, things are typically more quiet until the opening talks are finished, which is around 12:00. Yippieh! ;-) Florian -- Charles-H. Schulz Membre du Comité exécutif The Document Foundation. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] We have a stand at FOSDEM!
Hi all, On 22/12/2010 14:41, Florian Effenberger wrote: Good news everyone :-) Yes, really great news, thanks Florian :-) Having maintained the booth the last years, if you (I mean the team) need any info or have any question, don't hesitate to ask. Unfortunately, I won't be able to take care of the coffee and speculoos this time, but I'm sure you'll have a great time any way :-) Kind regards Sophie I just received the following mail: Your request for a stand of LibreOffice at FOSDEM 2010 has been accepted, and we will put the following at your disposal: - on Saturday from 10:00 to 18:00 and Sunday from 10:00 to 17:00, - 2 table(s) of 2 meter width and 1 meter depth, 2 seats per table, - most probably in the H building (subject to change), - best-effort wireless interenet and one(!) type C/E power plug. If you want to decline this offer, please tell us as soon as possible. We provide only one power plug per stand, but you can hook up several multi-socket power chords. Because we can not provide those for every stand, we must ask you to bring your own multi-socket power chords. To make the stands look more professional, we would also like to ask you to bring a table cloth that covers the table and the front of it. The front side is a very good place to put your logo and name in large on, this will increase your visibility. We will stick A4 sheets with your project name on the tables, so you'll know where to install stuff. The best time to build up your stands in the H building is around 09:00. From 09:30-10:00 the people start to rush in, heading for the opening talks. In the AW building, things are typically more quiet until the opening talks are finished, which is around 12:00. Yippieh! ;-) Florian -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status
Hi, :-) On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 09:42, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.com wrote: thanks for your mail ... I think the best thing is to also forward it to the Design team list, and to him (BCC). Let's see how it evolves :-) Sure. I just hope we manage to take a fast decision about this, and *get it done* without too much futzing around. :-D David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
