Re: [steering-discuss] Re: Adoption and implementation of the Community Bylaws

2011-01-10 Thread Cor Nouws

Hi David,

David Nelson wrote (10-01-11 00:25)


Forming the legal entity, the Foundation will take time. But that has
no connection with the implementation of the Community Bylaws. The
existence of the Foundation is *not* necessary before implementing
almost every clause of the Community Bylaws.


That is true (I guess for the most).
Possibly (some) things can be done (a bit) faster than at the moment. 
But I am careful with suggesting that, because I know from my own 
situation how hard it is to find the time, beside all other 
responsibilities.


Kind regards,
Cor

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Re: [steering-discuss] Re: Adoption and implementation of the Community Bylaws

2011-01-10 Thread Varun Mittal
Dear All,

As far as I understand we are all on same page regarding out objectives and
long term goals. In every team there are few aggressive, few defensive and
few balanced out players. A team needs each of them equally because each of
them is best at their task.

I understand David's feelings and those of others who have put some long
term dates.

Dear David, you have some great ideas but brother the fact is that when an
army has to attack it can't send 5 soldiers in front. The whole team has to
go. George Bush who commanded the world's strongest armed forces waited for
10 months before launching attack on Al Qaida ( just an example, nothing
against any country , race, religion). Passion is very important but
sometimes we need to wait so that everyone comes along and we can launch the
ATTACK together. This might prove irritating to the soldier standing in
front line but he needs to wait for those bulky infantry guns to come who
will give cover fire during the battle.

I believe instead of entering this wastage of energy accusation war, we
should see which areas can be put on fast track. And I am sure if there are
some such areas where people like David who can devote extra time, then they
can be entrusted with some responsibilities in this regard.

I hope we all focus on tasks ahead. I will wait for Florian or someone from
the group to list out some things which can be fast tracked and what all can
be done by David and group to help with that

I hope we can put an end to this fight now :)

No soldier alone ever won the battle alone, but yes one soldier alone did
cause the Spartans to lose the battle .

We need everyone and everyone is important !!!

  Thank You


Best Regards
Varun Mittal http://www.varunmittal.info

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On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 1:30 PM, David Nelson comme...@traduction.bizwrote:

 Hi Andreas, guys, :-)

 Thanks for your responses. I'd like to put some viewpoints that some of you
 guys don't seem to have thought of.


 Rant
 

 rant

 I would like to see an end to this mindset of some people regarding a
 three-tier community: the new members, the ex-OOo community members, and
 the SC members. (This mindset is not just my imagination: Bernhard
 acknowledged and justified it in his post, and Sophie seemed to back him up
 about it...)

 Sometimes, when I read some ex-OOo members, the words complacency and
 condescension pop-up in my mind.

 I can tell you that it's irritating having to live with this constant
 deference to OOo history.

 IMHO, some ex-OOo people need to start thinking forwards, rather than being
 rooted in a past that I feel has less relevance than you seem to think.

 I feel it's time to say that OOo was the past, LibreOffice and TDF is our
 future, and everything started from zero with the TDF launch.

 /rant


 Elections
 

 When TDF first launched, there was a *lot* of interest and excitement
 around
 the project. I had the impression that, among others, there were quite a
 few
 intelligent and well-qualified people with fresh ideas and lots of energy
 to
 contribute work.

 It would be good if SC members were to remember that there are other people
 who want a chance to lead the project and to have an influence in its
 future
 development.

 I'd be very keen to see elections, and to see some SC members given a
 democratic mandate to continue their valuable work within a 9-member BoD,
 but also to see some fresh blood in there, too, with a new outlook.

 It would be good because those BoD members will remember that they are
 elected for 1 year, and this will be something they will probably bear in
 mind in their contact with other community members, and in the work they do
 for the project.


 Implement the Community Bylaws, and the institutions therein
 ===

 In addition to organizing elections for the BoD, it would also be very
 important to:

 - quickly start setting-up and operating the institutions mentioned in the
 Community Bylaws: the BoD, the ESC, the MC, ...;

 - conform to the spirit and letter of the Community Bylaws, and start
 officially communicating with the community regularly through
 announcements;

 I really fail to see any justification for waiting 9 months to set up the
 BoD (which should be elected by community vote).

 For those that speak of their lack of time and their need to attend to
 family commitments, I would have to respectfully reply that maybe you
 should
 step aside, because there may well be other people with more time and
 energy
 to devote to the project's work. The project's work should not have to
 proceed at the speed of the slowest contributor.

 I would like the implementation of the Community Bylaws to be started ASAP,
 and I would 

Re: [steering-discuss] Re: Adoption and implementation of the Community Bylaws

2011-01-10 Thread Stefan Weigel
Hi,

Am 11.01.2011 06:30, schrieb David Nelson:

 I feel it's time to say that OOo was the past, LibreOffice and TDF is our
 future, and everything started from zero with the TDF launch.

Excuse me David, but IMO you are completely wrong.

LibreOffice and TDF did not start from zero at all. Please read the
mission statement. Please read the manifesto.

Please remember that basically the TDF is about the evolution of the
OpenOffice.org Community. Please remember that LibreOffice would
still be named OpenOffice.org, if there wasn´t a very special legal
issue about this name.

So yes, we *are* an already existing community with some more and
some less experienced or established people. And there are lots of
new members, which is very good, of course. Newcomers will have to
respect and learn from the long-time members, as well as they can
bring in new ideas and fresh viewpoints.

As a matter of fact, right now we do have informal structures in our
community. Maybe that´s what you observe as three-tier community.

Stefan

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Re: [steering-discuss] Re: Adoption and implementation of the Community Bylaws

2011-01-09 Thread Andreas Mantke
Hi David, *,

Am Sonntag, 9. Januar 2011, 16:12:21 schrieb David Nelson:
(...)
 
 I do *hope* I am wrong. I hope all of the above is true.
 For the moment, I have not seen the proof. ;-)
 Don't *tell* me I'm wrong, *show* me I'm wrong. ;-)
 

I'm a a long time contributor to OOo and now of LibreOffice (and the TDF). I 
know 
most of the people in the SC face to face and know the work they have done for 
OOo 
and the community over a long period. Please keep cool and give things the 
necessary 
time. I know that's not always easy ;-)

  So to come back on the bylaws: we can start to implement them little by
  little but they will only be fully enforced and implemented once we
  have a legal entity. Before we can only lay the pillars and set up
  whatever can be set up without interfering with the legal entity in
  formation.
 
 I think that most of the bylaws can be put into practice absolutely
 independently of the existence of any legal entity. They are a moral
 form of governance and organization. Very little is keyed on any legal
 entity as such. Therefore, may I please enjoin the SC to start with
 implementation as soon as possible?
 

There is currently no legal entity or a legal organisation TDF. Every thing is 
in the 
course of formation. Because I know a bit about German law I can assure you 
that it 
takes a longer time (not days or a month) to establish a foundation. The SC had 
to 
think carefully about the purpose of the foundation, because we (the community) 
want 
to guarentee, that our goals will be served by the foundation in 10 years (or 
later). 
So please give the SC and the involved people the time that is necessary to 
establish 
a strong and appropriate foundation.

I don't think it would be a good idea to coopt some people to the foundation. 
This 
would currently lead to an endless discussion, who should get this priviledge.

Regards,
Andreas
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