Re: It's a boy!
From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Matt Grimaldi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew Michael Grimaldi, Born 23-Oct-2003 at 6:52 p.m. 10 lb., 8 oz. 20.5 inches Both baby and mother are doing well, snip Adding my congratulations, and wishes for a happy homecoming. :D Congratulations to you and your family, Matt! Welcome to the Brin-L new baby club! -Bryon _ MSN Messenger with backgrounds, emoticons and more. http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_customize ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
A new trilogy
I just finished what I will call the Probablity trilogy by Nancy Kress. The books are Probability Moon, Probability Sun, and Probability Space. The series revolves around a war between Humans and Fallers, a totally alien race that takes no prisoners, doesn't communicate, and is described as intensely xenophobic. Add space tunnels that have been discovered here and there about the galaxy, including one just beyong Neptune's orbit and you have a way to travel. Moon involves a mission to a planet called World. World has one the more interesting alien races I read about in quite a while. It is DNA-based and all members share reality. Worlders seem eager to befriend and trade with humans, IF humans turn out to be real. Orbitting World there are 7 moons, one of which is found to be an alien artifact apparently made by the same Protector race that built the space tunnels. The artifact may in fact be a weapon that can turn the war in favor of humanity. Moon flips back and forth between members of an anthropological mission on the surface of World and those who are part of a secret military mission sent to decipher the artifact. Naturally, the folks on the surface are aware of neither the secret mission nor the artifact. Sun is a re-visit to World by some returning members and a few new characters. The re-visit is in secret because first member mission left in a hurry thinking humans had been declared unreal and in danger (among other reasons). BTW, there is a second artifact on World that may be a smaller version of the one that was in orbit and may be the cause of the Shared Reality of World. Sun is mostly about the study of the second artifact and the moral dilemma of taking (stealing) the artifact to use against the Fallers and thereby destroying the shared reality civilization of World. Space is about the effects of the artifact and the resolution of the Human/Faller war. It also examines the political realities of the solar system at the time. There are return characters and new ones as well. Anymore will spoil. It is a solid conclusion. This is an excellent read. The books are well written, with logical plots, and characters you can care about. And one more thing: the physics. If you've read Brian Greene's, The Elegant Universe, then you're at least familiar with string theory, quantum foam, 6 tiny curled up dimensions (Calabi-Yau spaces), and quantum entanglement. The science of this trilogy is right out of Greene's book (Ms. Kress acknowledges his book right up front). The space tunnels and the artifacts and what they can do all involve string theory and Calabi-Yau spaces. Recommended. George A ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: religious/political question
At 02:17 PM 11/3/03 -0500, Jon Gabriel wrote: From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: religious/political question Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:44:04 + On 2 Nov 2003, at 4:54 pm, Julia Thompson wrote: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, William T Goodall wrote: On 1 Nov 2003, at 9:38 pm, Jim Sharkey wrote: The Fool wrote: So when andrew crystal starts building concentration camps and death camps, for atheists, freethinkers, and rationalists SNIP further rantings Considering that you have made it clear you would cheerfully eliminate all religions if given your druthers, I find this over-the-top hysteria pretty darn ironic. Talk about double-speak. The method religion has usually used to eliminate disagreement is to eliminate those who disagree. The freethinker's approach to eliminating religion is through information, debate and education. Just as you don't convert many people to religion these days by telling them to repent or they'll go to hell, telling them they're dead wrong and idiots for believing in any sort of god isn't going to go over well, either. Debate doesn't mean slamming the opposite view and getting hyperbolically hysterical. *That* is the problem a number of folks here are having with how The Fool is saying what he's saying. I'd suggest that he re-think his debating tactics on this matter if he wants to convert anyone to his point of view on it. Well I think it is very generous of The Fool to try and help the memetically handicapped on the list with their affliction in the face of a notable lack of gratitude, or even downright hostility. If you seriously think we should be grateful to you both for insulting the intelligence of list members and repeated smug declarations of intolerance toward their beliefs then y'all need to share whatever you're smoking with the rest of us. None for me, thanks. Smoking is against my religion . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Costume Gets Osceola H.S. Student Suspended
At 12:59 PM 11/3/03 -0600, The Fool wrote: http://www.wftv.com/education/2604761/detail.html Halloween Costume Gets Osceola H.S. Student Suspended POSTED: 10:15 a.m. EST November 3, 2003 UPDATED: 10:56 a.m. EST November 3, 2003 KISSIMMEE, Fla. -- Osceola High School administrators thought a student's Halloween costume was more trick than treat. So they suspended her. SURVEY Do you agree with the high school's decision to suspend the student for her halloween costume? Yes, it was inappropriate No, it was a good PSA Results | Disclaimer Lanessa Riobe, 16, was told to go home Friday after wearing a T-shirt decorated with condoms. Lanessa said she decided on the costume after seeing safe-sex commercials on television. Not strange enough? Read more strange news from WFTV.com. A lot of my friends are sexually active, Riobe told the Orlando Sentinel. I tell them, if you're going to do it, be safe. Riobe taped condoms to a white T-shirt and began passing them out to her classmates. Her first-period teacher alerted school administrators, who sent her home with a three-day suspension for class disruption. They also said she had an insolent attitude. Osceola High principal Chuck Paradiso later reduced the suspension to one day. This is not acceptable, he said. This is something you don't do in a public school. Of course not. She was infringing on the school's duty. -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
At 03:32 PM 11/3/03 -0600, Reggie Bautista wrote: I wrote: Someone else said once in the same newsgroup Of course, since JMS is an atheist, he doesn't believe in hell, anyway. jms' reply was Says you. I'm FROM New Jersey Jim replied: Now, why does everyone have to crack on New Jersey? There aren't that many areas in the world where you are always within three hours' drive of the ocean, mountains, and major metropolitan areas. Yes, we have toxic waste and obnoxious IROC drivers, but otherwise it's not too bad a place. Either that or I'm beyond help, which is not out of the realm of possibility. Sorry, I didn't mean to start a debate about the relative merits of New Jersey. I just thought jms' line was funny in the context of the religion/anti-religion tirades going back and forth. I personally have nothing against New Jersey. I was born and raised in Kansas (although I live in Missouri now), and have always heard about how boring and how desparately flat it is, which I never really got since the Kansas City area is quite hilly and interesting. Then I drove to Colorado. If most people's experience of Kansas is from driving across I-70, then I think I get it now. There's always I-80 across Nebraska and Wyoming¹ . . . _ ¹Which for me is shorter than I-70, though obviously YMMV, particularly if you are going to, say, Denver rather than Salt Lake . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: DRAFT
At 03:05 PM 11/3/03 -0600, Reggie Bautista wrote: d.brin wrote: But yes, a priority has to go to novels! So, guess where I'll be returning next? Hint... they swim. They talk. They fly Jim replied: Glee! It's a story about a bunch of Gameras! :) LOL! By the way, has anyone else noticed that there are suddenly a whole lot of Godzilla and related movies in the cheap DVD bins at Walmart? Hadn't noticed those. The night before the California election, though, I spotted a copy of Hercules in New York (supposedly with the original dialogue soundtrack) there . . . Didn't Get It Because I Didn't Have A Player Available Maru -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: It's a boy!
At 01:55 AM 11/4/03 -0500, Bryon Daly wrote: From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Matt Grimaldi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew Michael Grimaldi, Born 23-Oct-2003 at 6:52 p.m. 10 lb., 8 oz. 20.5 inches Both baby and mother are doing well, snip Adding my congratulations, and wishes for a happy homecoming. :D Congratulations to you and your family, Matt! Welcome to the Brin-L new baby club! Oh, btw: Me, too! A Little Behind In My List Mail Maru -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Miranda died
From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dan went out to take some scraps out to the dogs, and Miranda didn't come. He went looking for her and found her body next to the shed. She was a very nice dog, very *doggy*, utterly adoring. We're going to miss her very much. I'm sorry to hear about your dog, Julia. My condolences. _ Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Dogmatism
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] I just typed marx jewish question and got http://csf.colorado.edu/psn/marx/Archive/1844-JQ/ let me quote from it. quote Money is the jealous god of Israel, in face of which no other god may exist. Money degrades all the gods of man -- and turns them into commodities. Money is the universal self-established value of all things. It has, therefore, robbed the whole world -- both the world of men and nature -- of its specific value. Money is the estranged essence of man's work and man's existence, and this alien essence dominates him, and he worships it. The god of the Jews has become secularized and has become the god of the world. The bill of exchange is the real god of the Jew. His god is only an illusory bill of exchange. The view of nature attained under the domination of private property and money is a real contempt for, and practical debasement of, nature; in the Jewish religion, nature exists, it is true, but it exists only in imagination. It is in this sense that [ in a 1524 pamphlet ] Thomas Munzer declares it intolerable that all creatures have been turned into property, the fishes in the water, the birds in the air, the plants on the earth; the creatures, too, must become free. Contempt for theory, art, history, and for man as an end in himself, which is contained in an abstract form in the Jewish religion, is the real, conscious standpoint, the virtue of the man of money. The species-relation itself, the relation between man and woman, etc., becomes an object of trade! The woman is bought and sold. The chimerical nationality of the Jew is the nationality of of the merchant, of the man of money in general. unquote Replace the word jew with corporation, and he might eveb make sense: Money is the jealous god of Corporatism, in face of which no other god may exist. Money degrades all the gods of man -- and turns them into commodities. Money is the universal self-established value of all things. It has, therefore, robbed the whole world -- both the world of men and nature -- of its specific value. Money is the estranged essence of man's work and man's existence, and this alien essence dominates him, and he worships it. The god of the corporations has become secularized and has become the god of the world. The bill of exchange is the real god of the corporation. His god is only an illusory bill of exchange. The view of nature attained under the domination of private property and money is a real contempt for, and practical debasement of, nature; in the corporate religion, nature exists, it is true, but it exists only in imagination. It is in this sense that [ in a 1524 pamphlet ] Thomas Munzer declares it intolerable that all creatures have been turned into property, the fishes in the water, the birds in the air, the plants on the earth; the creatures, too, must become free. Contempt for theory, art, history, and for man as an end in himself, which is contained in an abstract form in the corporate religion, is the real, conscious standpoint, the virtue of the man of money. The species-relation itself, the relation between man and woman, etc., becomes an object of trade! The woman is bought and sold. The chimerical nationality of the corporation is the nationality of of the merchant, of the man of money in general. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
california halts diebold Certification
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,61068,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_5 Calif. Halts E-Vote Certification By Kim Zetter 05:49 PM Nov. 03, 2003 PT SACRAMENTO, California -- Uncertified software may have been installed on electronic voting machines used in one California county, according to the secretary of state's office. Marc Carrel, assistant secretary of state for policy and planning, told attendees Thursday at a panel on voting systems that California was halting the certification process for new voting machines manufactured by Diebold Election Systems. The reason, Carrel said, was that his office had recently received disconcerting information that Diebold may have installed uncertified software on its touch-screen machines used in one county. He did not say which county was involved. However, secretary of state spokesman Douglas Stone later told Wired News that the county in question is Alameda. Alameda County, a Democratic stronghold that includes the cities of Berkeley and Oakland, converted to all-electronic voting last year at a cost of more than $12 million. The county used the machines in state elections last year and in last month's gubernatorial recall election. The machines will also be used in tomorrow's municipal election in Alameda. The only other California county currently using the Diebold touch-screen machines is Plumas. No one was available for comment on whether uncertified software may have been installed on machines used in Plumas. The Diebold machines slated for state certification, known as the AccuVote TSx, are a modified version of the machines used in Alameda and Plumas. The new machine is said to be a lighter, more compact version. At the meeting, Carel delayed indefinitely the certification of the new machines until the secretary of state's office can investigate the matter. Diebold officials, who were attending the meeting, seemed surprised by the announcement and expressed displeasure to several panelists afterward that it had been introduced in a public forum. They were unavailable for comment. Also present at the meeting were representatives from Solano, San Diego and San Joaquin counties, where officials are waiting for state certification to begin using the new machines. Officials from Alameda County's registrar of voters were unavailable for comment. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
feel a draft coming on?
http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/sss092203.html Become a Selective Service System Local Board Member The Selective Service System wants to hear from men and women in the community who might be willing to serve as members of a local draft board. Prospective Board Members must be citizens of the United States , at least 18 years old, and registered with the Selective Service (if male). Prospective Board Members may not be an employee of any law enforcement occupation, not be an active or retired member of the Armed Forces, and not have been convicted of any criminal offense. Once identified as qualified candidates for appointment, prospective Board Members are recommended by the Governor and appointed by the Director of Selective Service, who acts on behalf of the President in making appointments. Each new member receives 12 hours of initial training after appointment, followed by 4 hours of annual training for as long as he or she remains in the position. They may serve as Board Members for up to 20 years, if desired. Local Board Members are uncompensated volunteers who play an important community role closely connected with our Nation's defense. If a military draft becomes necessary, approximately 2,000 Local and Appeal Boards throughout America would decide which young men, who submit a claim, receive deferments, postponements or exemptions from military service, based on Federal guidelines. Positions are available in many communities across the Nation. If you believe you meet the standards for Selective Service Board Membership, and wish to be considered for appointment please visit our web site at: http://www.sss.gov/fslocal.htm ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: religious/political question
On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 04:04 PM 11/2/03 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 10:50 AM 11/2/03 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: [...] if a certain friend of mine had gotten pregnant (and she was doing everything she could to prevent it) Why do I get the impression that everything she could do did not include celibacy? Just Wondering Maru Actually, it did at that time. That, *plus* birth control pills. But there was always the possibility of rape, which she was paranoid about at the time. Something about having been molested by someone she trusted fairly recently at that time. And she was concerned enough about it to talk to me about it all. Umm . . . I was being a smart aleck, expecting the answer to be that she was already married at the time. I did briefly consider the possibility that she was single and paranoid about rape, but not in the sense that she had any special _reason_ to be paranoid. My problem is that I don't usually think of such things: I know that they happen, but they're just not something that comes to mind first. Or even second. At the time that it was at all *my* problem for me to be taking any action, she was married, but her husband was overseas in the military. So, you were right about assuming she was married, but at that particular time, she wasn't having consentual sex. A couple of years later, the problem had corrected itself, and she has a daughter now. That is great! She's a neat little kid. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: religious/political question
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, William T Goodall wrote: On 4 Nov 2003, at 3:04 am, Julia Thompson wrote: working very hard on tact for a number of years now -- how'm I doing? I think you may have confused tact with tactile on some occasions :) :D Thanks for the smile this morning -- I needed it. Julia 1 depressed dog, 2 babies fussing on and off until after 2AM ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
[Scouted] Trick or Treat rage?
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=817e=2u=/ap/father_arrested A snippet: ANN ARBOR, Mich. - A 43-year-old man faces charges after he smashed a bird-feeder and threw a pumpkin through the window of a house where his young son said he didn't get any Halloween candy. I'm starting to think that wwe need to implement the _Snow Crash_ method of justice and tattoo stuff on people's foreheads. Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Dogmatism
- Original Message - From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 10:20 PM Subject: Re: Dogmatism On 4 Nov 2003, at 3:29 am, Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wasn't Marx a Jew ethnically? His family converted. It's certainly possible to be a self-hating Jew. But Marx was quite obviously ebulliently full of himself. That can really be a very complex phenomenon. Gang members seem very full of themselves, but are often plagued with self doubt and self hate at the core. As I mentioned in my thread about my Zambian daughter, racist ideas and stereotypes about blacks seem to have been accepted as true by a number of blacks. Were his statements about the Jewish religion and not the Jewish people? One of the things that makes Judaism special is that you can't really distinguish the two. Conflating separable ideas leads to worthlessly muddled thinking. Right, just like Maxwell muddled things beyond all hope when he combined the separate ideas of electricity and magnetism. :-) The reality is and has been that Jewish identity is complex. (As an aside, I really don't see that utility of pristine theories that do not take the messy realities into account). As far as I see, Jewishness is three fold: Its inherited, if your parents are Jewish you are Jewish. (In particular, if your mother is Jewish, you are Jewish.) Its cultural. One can accept or reject one's Jewish identity. Rejection has typically involved turning one's back on extended family and on one's ancestors. Its a religion. One accepts the Torah as uniquely revealed scripture and follows the God of Abraham. As far as the first question is concerned, there had been times when Jews were offered the opportunity to become full members of European society by renouncing their heritage and becoming Christian. I know that Teri's father's family opted to become Christians in the 19th century. Cultural Jews are very common today. Many Jews are atheists but still Jews. They accept their identity, but don't believe in God. Unlike Teri's family, the still consider themselves Jewish. Religious Jews believe in God and actively practice their faith. Joe Liberman would be a good example of this type of Jew. Its hard to fathom On the Jewish Question as a discussion of a theological problem. Rather, Marx seems to accept as fact that the inherent problem in Europe is Jewish in character. I'd argue that his point is that rejecting this Jewishness in order to accept Christianity, as his father did, is not enough. Christianity is too Jewish, one must reject both Judaism and Christianity. In doing so, Marx states a multitude of ethnic slurs as facts. The fact that he is biologically descended from Jew doesn't undo this. I think it is fair to say that he wasn't arguing that its a matter of biology, and that a Jew who renounced his inherently evil heritage could be a perfectly good Communist. However, one cannot deny that the acceptance of anti-Semitic stereotypes as fact is pervasive in the work. The best explanation that I can give of 19th century European anti-Semitism is that it was so pervasive, that it was accepted as fact even by those who purport to differ with it. So, it is hard to argue that the anti-Semitism of Stalin and Lenin was an unnatural addition to Marxism, because it was accepted in the earliest writings that underlie Marxism. Rather, one could argue that anti-Semitism so permeated Europe, that it was even accepted as fact by people who's ancestors were Jewish. Dan M. When he talks about the Jewish God being money he was trafficking in the vilest of anti-Semitic stereotypes. He was a Jew attacking the role of Jews in a Christian society wherein money-lending was still regarded as a sin and Jews were tolerated as they could perform the valuable service of giving loans with interest. The stereotypes he used were the ones of the society he lived in - and he was criticizing them. Could you please show me where in the text that he said those stereotypes were wrong? The plain sense of the text is that he was accepting them as valid. Nowhere did he say that they were erroneous stereotypes. Rather, he stated the stereotypes as one would state facts. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Scouted] Trick or Treat rage?
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Jim Sharkey wrote: I'm starting to think that wwe need to implement the _Snow Crash_ method of justice and tattoo stuff on people's foreheads. I thought awhile back that if I were ever attacked and managed to knock my attacker down and unconscious for a bit, I'd use whatever I had at hand to carve an asterisk in the forehead of the person, then run and call the police. The marring of the forehead would make for easier identification later, and might spur the person to go to the ER, where it might be easier to find that person. Anyone who's read Vonnegut's _Breakfast of Champions_ ought to be able to figure it out Julia who'd be more inclined now to just land a number of kicks in the abdomen and groin and then get the hell out of there... ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Red Hat Cans Linux Distribution
'Leading Linux distributor Red Hat Inc. on Monday made clear its intention to focus on the enterprise space, telling customers that it will no longer be maintaining or releasing any of the its Red Hat Linux line after the end of April 2004. The Raleigh, N.C. firm sent its Red Hat Network customers an e-mail, informing them of the upcoming discontinuation of Red Hat Linux and providing them with resources to assist you with your migration to another Red Hat solution. As previously communicated, Red Hat will discontinue maintenance and errata support for Red Hat Linux 7.1, 7.2, 7.3 and 8.0 as of December 31, 2003. Red Hat will discontinue maintenance and errata support for Red Hat 9 as of April 30 2004. Red Hat does not plan to release another product in the Red Hat Linux line, the email said. The move is designed to push customers to migrate to Red Hat's Enterprise Linux line of products, which carry an annual subscription fee.' -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ 'The true sausage buff will sooner or later want his own meat grinder.' -- Jack Schmidling ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Red Hat Cans Linux Distribution
On 4 Nov 2003 at 17:44, William T Goodall wrote: 'Leading Linux distributor Red Hat Inc. on Monday made clear its intention to focus on the enterprise space, telling customers that it will no longer be maintaining or releasing any of the its Red Hat Linux line after the end of April 2004. Link? Ah well, I run SuSE anyway. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Dogmatism
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Dogmatism Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:11:38 -0600 - Original Message - From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 10:20 PM Subject: Re: Dogmatism On 4 Nov 2003, at 3:29 am, Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wasn't Marx a Jew ethnically? His family converted. It's certainly possible to be a self-hating Jew. But Marx was quite obviously ebulliently full of himself. That can really be a very complex phenomenon. Gang members seem very full of themselves, but are often plagued with self doubt and self hate at the core. As I mentioned in my thread about my Zambian daughter, racist ideas and stereotypes about blacks seem to have been accepted as true by a number of blacks. Were his statements about the Jewish religion and not the Jewish people? One of the things that makes Judaism special is that you can't really distinguish the two. Conflating separable ideas leads to worthlessly muddled thinking. Right, just like Maxwell muddled things beyond all hope when he combined the separate ideas of electricity and magnetism. :-) The reality is and has been that Jewish identity is complex. (As an aside, I really don't see that utility of pristine theories that do not take the messy realities into account). As far as I see, Jewishness is three fold: Its inherited, if your parents are Jewish you are Jewish. (In particular, if your mother is Jewish, you are Jewish.) Its cultural. One can accept or reject one's Jewish identity. Rejection has typically involved turning one's back on extended family and on one's ancestors. Interfaith marriage has complicated things even further. Its a religion. One accepts the Torah as uniquely revealed scripture and follows the God of Abraham. As far as the first question is concerned, there had been times when Jews were offered the opportunity to become full members of European society by renouncing their heritage and becoming Christian. I know that Teri's father's family opted to become Christians in the 19th century. And this was historically almost always posed not as a 'choice', but an _ultimatum_: convert or die. The Inquisition is but one example. Cultural Jews are very common today. Many Jews are atheists but still Jews. They accept their identity, but don't believe in God. Unlike Teri's family, the still consider themselves Jewish. We've discussed this onlist before. I have doubts that 'Cultural Jews' currently outnumber religious Jews. In general, Jewish organizations and temples have been increasing their numbers quite steadily over the last decade. Religious Jews believe in God and actively practice their faith. Joe Liberman would be a good example of this type of Jew. You may consider this nitpicking, but for accuracy's sake I think it's best to break this down into specifics. Joe Lieberman is an Orthodox Jew. He belongs to the smallest, most traditional Jewish sect. His example would be considered extreme by the vast majority of Reform and Conservative religious Jews in this country. Observant, religious Jews who practice their faith are not necessarily Orthodox. There are three main sects (commonly referred to as movements) of Jewish faith: Orthodox Conservative Reform Orthodox is considered a traditional movement and Reform is a liberal movement. Conservative is midway between the two. The sects follow different laws and guidelines and individual levels of religious observance vary greatly within each. For example, there are Conservative Jews who observe kosher laws and those who don't. There are also sects within the sects: for instance, there are Traditional Orthodox, Modern Orthodox and Reconstructionist Reform Jews. Try http://www.nottm.edu.org.uk/ks3/jewfaq/movement.htm for more information. Jon GSV Brin-L Encyclopedia Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead? Your old favorites are always playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: feel a draft coming on?
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of The Fool Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 06:59 AM To: Brin-L Subject: feel a draft coming on? http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/sss092203.html Hmm.. maybe I'll try to get a spot on the local draft board, just in case... -j- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Br!n: A review of The Life Eaters from CBG
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Sharkey Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 04:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Br!n: A review of The Life Eaters from CBG Miller, Jeffrey wrote: Thanks for posting the review; what did you think of Y:The Last Man, btw? I've been picking it up since you encouraged me to try it; it's quite good, though I have yet to buy the first two issues. As a result, I have no idea how it all starts yet. I'm just not willing to pay the ridiculously inflated prices those issues are going for at the moment. :( I picked up the book of the first 8 issues; I suffer from the collector gene (as is evidenced by my RPG and CD library..) and I've made a concious effort to NOT get into comics as collectibles. Thus, I get the books ^_^ -j- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: [Listref] House Cats and Ferrets Are Easily Infected With SARS Virus
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Deborah Harrell Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 09:44 PM To: brinl Subject: [Listref] House Cats and Ferrets Are Easily Infected With SARS Virus And here I thought my kitties just increased my risk of finding half-a-mouse on the doorstoop and the occasional hairball on a carpet... http://my.webmd.com/content/Article/76/90032.htm?printing=true ...New research shows that common house pets such as cats and ferrets may easily become infected with the SARS virus and spread the disease to others. Great, yet another reason I won't be able to get a ferret ^_^ -j- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Red Hat Cans Linux Distribution
On 4 Nov 2003, at 6:37 pm, Andrew Crystall wrote: On 4 Nov 2003 at 17:44, William T Goodall wrote: 'Leading Linux distributor Red Hat Inc. on Monday made clear its intention to focus on the enterprise space, telling customers that it will no longer be maintaining or releasing any of the its Red Hat Linux line after the end of April 2004. Link? Oops! http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1371219,00.asp Ah well, I run SuSE anyway. In that case you might find this interesting http://www.novell.com/news/press/archive/2003/11/pr03069.html Novell Announces Agreement to Acquire Leading Enterprise Linux Technology Company SUSE LINUX -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Misuse of IMPs leads to strange, difficult-to-diagnose bugs. - Anguish et al. Cocoa Programming ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Red Hat Cans Linux Distribution
On 4 Nov 2003 at 21:23, William T Goodall wrote: Ah well, I run SuSE anyway. In that case you might find this interesting http://www.novell.com/news/press/archive/2003/11/pr03069.html Novell Announces Agreement to Acquire Leading Enterprise Linux Technology Company SUSE LINUX Yea. They've stated that the desktop side won't be having any major changes allready. And if they DO...well. I'll stick with whatever distro the linux guru on my Uni degree uses, since he's allways teaching me Linux stuff. (I have linux as a second OS on my desktop, and as the only OS on my old laptop. The pen tablet PC only supports Windows 95/98...) Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
new wonder drug scours arteries clean
And pharmacutical corporation are still evil greedy vile money moshiping pig, only developing therapies they can patent. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/04/health/04CND-CHOL.html?ex=1068613200e n=5509e0dc62883210ei=5062partner=GOOGLE Study Finds New Drug Acts Quickly on Clogged Arteries By GINA KOLATA Published: November 4, 2003 small study of heart disease patients testing a hypothesis so improbable that its principle investigator says he gave it a 1 in 10,000 chance of succeeding has found that just a few treatments with an experimental drug reversed what may be the equivalent of years' worth of plaque in coronary arteries. The results, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, involved just 47 heart attack patients. They were randomly assigned to be infused with one of two concentrations of a substance that mimics high-density lipoprotein, or H.D.L., the substance that removes cholesterol from arteries, or to be infused with saline, serving as a control. After five weekly infusions, those who got the experimental drug had a 4.2 percent decrease in the volume of plaque in their coronary arteries, while those who had saline infusions had, if anything, a slight increase in their plaque. By contrast, according to Dr. Steven E. Nissen, a Cleveland Clinic cardiologist who directed the study, the most powerful statins, which lower levels of low-density lipoproteins, or L.D.L., which deliver cholesterol to coronary arteries, take years to show more modest effects. ``It is astonishing, you have to admit that,'' said Dr. Scott Grundy, a cholesterol expert, who is director of the Center for Human Nutrition at the University of Texas Southwestern School of Medicine in Dallas. ``A 4 percent reduction in the size of the lesions is remarkable.'' Dr. Daniel Rader, director of the preventive cardiology and lipid clinic at the University of Pennsylvania, also expressed surprise. ``It is amazing,'' he said. ``The biggest and by far the most surprising thing is that it can happen so quickly. A weekly infusion? It is surprising enough that it makes us all want to see it replicated in a larger study.'' Dr. Bryan Brewer, chief of the molecular disease branch at the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute, said, ``No one has ever seen anything like this in this amount of time.'' ``Hardening of the arteries takes years and years to develop,'' he explained. ``It was thought that if we initiate therapy to decrease or prevent it, it would probably take years to have an effect. We thought H.D.L. therapy would work, but that it would work in six weeks was something no one anticipated.'' But all the investigators urged caution. This was a single small study, they emphasized. Its results need to be confirmed. And even if they are confirmed, there needs to be large studies showing that the drug-induced reduction in plaque corresponds to a reduced risk of heart attacks. Heart disease researchers have long wondered what would happen if they increased people's H.D.L. levels. Many thought it would prevent heart attacks because H.D.L. is associated with a reduced risk of heart disease in epidemiological studies. But they were stymied in going farther. They knew how to treat L.D.L. and so prevent cholesterol from being delivered to arteries. That was with statins, drugs that lower L.D.L. levels and, studies showed, prevent heart attacks. But they could not seem to increase the level of H.D.L. ``We never had a therapy that was able to raise H.D.L. effectively,'' Dr. Grundy noted. Companies tried, Dr. Rader said. ``The idea is to find a small molecule'' to activate the H.D.L. genes, he said. ``That's like a holy grail for the pharmaceutical industry. It hasn't been found.'' A second but obvious choice would be to simply give people H.D.L., infusing it into their veins. But there was a problem. The idea of giving ordinary H.D.L. was in the public domain and was not protected by patent, and so companies were not interested. There was, however, one H.D.L. that had been patented, and Dr. Roger Newton, the president and chief executive of Esperion Therapeutics, a small company in Ann Arbor, licensed the rights to develop it. Dr. Newton had experience in developing cholesterol drugs - he was a discoverer of Lipitor, the most prescribed statin in the United States. His goal in forming Esperion in 1998 was to develop H.D.L. therapies. The patented H.D.L. had a long and romantic history, one, Dr. Rader said, that has entered a realm of mythology. The story began two decades ago, when Italian investigators reported that about 40 inhabitants of Limone sul Garde, a small town in Northern Italy, had extraordinarily low H.D.L. levels, so low that they were off the scale. Doctors expected that they would have high rates of heart disease, but instead, it was reported, they actually seemed to be protected from heart disease and to live unusually long. ``It was one of the strangest paradoxes of
Xbox to Switch to PowerPC
http://www.wired.com/news/games/0,2101,61065,00.html? tw=newsletter_topstories_html Microsoft's next-generation Xbox will ditch its Intel chip in favor of the same kind of chip used in Apple's Macs -- an IBM PowerPC processor -- IBM and Microsoft announced on Monday. At least one industry analyst thinks the choice may be the first crack in the so-called Wintel partnership that has dominated the computer industry for decades. ... ...Richard Doherty, research director of Envisioneering Group of Seaford, New York, said the announcement could be the first in a more general shift by Microsoft away from Intel. It's a very big win for IBM. It's a clear change of direction for Microsoft, and it's a very unfortunate surprise for Intel, he said. There's quite a bit of irony here, he added, referring to the fact that it has always been assumed that Apple would move to Intel, rather than Microsoft moving to the PowerPC, a chip technology co-developed by Apple, IBM and Motorola. ... Doherty said IBM chips will now power all the major game consoles -- the next-generation PlayStation will be based on IBM's The Cell, and Nintendo currently uses the PowerPC in the GameCube. Microsoft will use the Virtual PC technology it acquired from Connectix last year to provide backward-compatibility with the current generation of Xbox games. ... The new Microsoft is hardware-agnostic, he said. I think we will see Microsoft decided on chips on their merits now, rather than an aging bias. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs. -- Robert Firth ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Scouted] Trick or Treat rage?
I thought awhile back that if I were ever attacked and managed to knock my attacker down and unconscious for a bit, I'd use whatever I had at hand to carve an asterisk in the forehead of the person, then run and call the police. The marring of the forehead would make for easier identification later, and might spur the person to go to the ER, where it might be easier to find that person. I GUARANTEE you, the person would scream bloody murder to the cops and insist that you be arrested too. Then he'd hire a lawyer and sue you from here to Andromeda. I'm not saying he'd be right to do this, but I absofuckinglutely guarantee it would happen. 100% certain. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean
- Original Message - From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Brin-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 4:40 PM Subject: new wonder drug scours arteries clean And pharmacutical corporation are still evil greedy vile money moshiping pig, only developing therapies they can patent. You don't think you are evil, right Fool? Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] And pharmacutical corporations are still evil greedy vile money woshiping pigs, only developing therapies they can patent. You don't think you are evil, right Fool? What is evil? These malicious corporations that could develop all kinds of medical treatments, but instead only develop ones they can patent, are the true essence of evil. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean
- Original Message - From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 5:09 PM Subject: Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] And pharmacutical corporations are still evil greedy vile money woshiping pigs, only developing therapies they can patent. You don't think you are evil, right Fool? What is evil? These malicious corporations that could develop all kinds of medical treatments, but instead only develop ones they can patent, are the true essence of evil. Why don't you raise the money to develop one that other people will make a ton of money on, leaving you broke? Remember when you said people would still develop things if they couldn't patent them? Now are you saying they won't because its evil? Doesn't this just show that you are wrong about what would happen if patents were abolished? Out of curiosity, should other companies also give their products away to poor people? IMHO, what we see here is the tragedy of the commons. I'm not opposed to taxpayer money being used to develop unpatentable techniques, with the government charging any company that uses these techniques a fee. But, you really can't expect a company to spend money developing something all of its competitors will use for free. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean
On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 05:44:35PM -0600, Dan Minette wrote: Remember when you said people would still develop things if they couldn't patent them? Now are you saying they won't because its evil? Doesn't this just show that you are wrong about what would happen if patents were abolished? Did he say that? I must have missed it. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean
From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:09:03 -0600 From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] And pharmacutical corporations are still evil greedy vile money woshiping pigs, only developing therapies they can patent. You don't think you are evil, right Fool? What is evil? These malicious corporations that could develop all kinds of medical treatments, but instead only develop ones they can patent, are the true essence of evil. And what's your point? That they should pour billions of dollars into research, labs and basic research annually for purely altruistic reasons? That's either an incredibly optimistic or naive argument. The most recent estimates indicate that it takes on average of $800 million and 15 years of research for a pharmaceutical company to develop a new drug. Plus, almost 75% of potential drugs fail at some point during testing and that costs approximately 2 billion dollars annually. Most of those failures are only discovered pretty late in the process, too, which means that said company has wasted time and money trying to develop a drug that isn't ever going to make them money. For every 1000 drugs submitted to the FDA, do you know how many pass clinical trials? One. You do the math. I do believe the price markup on drugs is WAY too damned high. But imo, you'd have to be a fool to think they would do it out of the goodness of their hearts. Even if they *wanted* to, it would be impossible. Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Xbox to Switch to PowerPC
William T Goodall wrote: http://www.wired.com/news/games/0,2101,61065,00.html? tw=newsletter_topstories_html Microsoft's next-generation Xbox will ditch its Intel chip in favor of the same kind of chip used in Apple's Macs -- an IBM PowerPC processor -- IBM and Microsoft announced on Monday. Cool! Thanks for posting this. I have a bet to go collect on now... :-) Reggie Bautista Where Do I Send Your Cut? Maru _ Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean
- Original Message - From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 5:54 PM Subject: Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 05:44:35PM -0600, Dan Minette wrote: Remember when you said people would still develop things if they couldn't patent them? Now are you saying they won't because its evil? Doesn't this just show that you are wrong about what would happen if patents were abolished? Did he say that? I must have missed it. It's an old dispute between the Fool and myself that you may have chosen to ignore. I'm all but certain (would bet $100 but not my house) that he has stated that patents are evil and that things would be better if they were eliminated. I'm pretty sure (bet $10 but not $100) that these discussions occurred while you were onlist. Dan M. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean
On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 06:19:44PM -0600, Dan Minette wrote: It's an old dispute between the Fool and myself that you may have chosen to ignore. I'm all but certain (would bet $100 but not my house) that he has stated that patents are evil and that things would be better if they were eliminated. I'm pretty sure (bet $10 but not $100) that these discussions occurred while you were onlist. The reason I ask is because, as stated by you, that position is similar to mine. I'm not that extreme, but I do think (and have stated) that the patent system is way out of control now and that far too many patents are granted, and often should not have been granted (should as in, using the current standards properly if the examiner had done adequate research), and are virtually always for too long a term. I think the system would work much better if as few as 10% as many patents were granted as are now, and if the terms averaged less than 5 years (perhaps variable terms depending on the item and the quality of the invention). I also agree with the statement that people would still develop many things without IP protection. They already do, and in some areas I think government or educational institutions would actually be more efficient, in terms of using available resources and creating beneficial advances for everyone, than the current state of affairs. Some, but not all. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean
Oops. And what's your point? That they should pour billions of dollars into research, labs and basic research annually for purely That should be ...salaries, labs and basic research... Jon i think faster than i type maru Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:24:18 -0500 On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 06:19:44PM -0600, Dan Minette wrote: It's an old dispute between the Fool and myself that you may have chosen to ignore. I'm all but certain (would bet $100 but not my house) that he has stated that patents are evil and that things would be better if they were eliminated. I'm pretty sure (bet $10 but not $100) that these discussions occurred while you were onlist. The reason I ask is because, as stated by you, that position is similar to mine. Out of curiosity, how do you feel about copyright laws? Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean
On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 07:39:27PM -0500, Jon Gabriel wrote: Out of curiosity, how do you feel about copyright laws? Similarly. Monopoly rights should not outlast the life of the original creator of the copyrighted material. They should definitely not be retroactively extended which is just silly and obviously in contradiction to the U.S. Constitution. I would like to see the system move towards eliminating many copyright protections and instead move towards a subscription and/or large payment for early purchasers model. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Red Hat Cans Linux Distribution
Andrew Crystall wrote: (I have linux as a second OS on my desktop, and as the only OS on my old laptop. The pen tablet PC only supports Windows 95/98...) I have put Linux in my new computer - it's been a war to make things work. On Sunday I spend 4 hours battling with the sound system, and on Monday I though I had finally conquered the enemy's stronghold. One boot to Linux by my almost-4 years old son, and now the sound system went back to the Rebel Cause - and now it seems unassailable by My Legions of Terror. Linux suckz. Even the alleged stability is false: today I lost a (small) file that I was typing :-/ Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Red Hat Cans Linux Distribution
On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 10:44:08PM -, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Even the alleged stability is false: That is false. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean
- Original Message - From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 6:24 PM Subject: Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 06:19:44PM -0600, Dan Minette wrote: It's an old dispute between the Fool and myself that you may have chosen to ignore. I'm all but certain (would bet $100 but not my house) that he has stated that patents are evil and that things would be better if they were eliminated. I'm pretty sure (bet $10 but not $100) that these discussions occurred while you were onlist. The reason I ask is because, as stated by you, that position is similar to mine. I'm not that extreme, but I do think (and have stated) that the patent system is way out of control now and that far too many patents are granted, and often should not have been granted (should as in, using the current standards properly if the examiner had done adequate research), and are virtually always for too long a term. I think the system would work much better if as few as 10% as many patents were granted as are now, and if the terms averaged less than 5 years (perhaps variable terms depending on the item and the quality of the invention). I'm not going to argue that the present system is wonderful, but I see different problems. The core problem is that examiners do not have ordinary skill in the art.They do grant invalid patents, and they also gut valid patents. I've seen the companies with the best lawyers get payments for patents that their own earlier disclosers invalidated and find ways to pick the language apart in valid patents of new ideas to the point where someone who doesn't know what's going on. As far as 5 years go; in the industries that I am familiar with, five years is a short time for patents. It probably takes at least a couple of years to develop, and that just leaves about 3 years of coverage. Remember, the patent application must be made before any disclosure of the ideas in the patent or the first commercial use. I also agree with the statement that people would still develop many things without IP protection. But not things with high NRE associated with development. If a lead of a few years on the competition is all it takes, and if there is not a big advantage in just copying a technique, then you are right. But if your competitors can have, say, 10% lower costs by just copying, then why bother developing first? Drugs are a classic example of this. Once a drug has passed clinical trials, the cost of copying is much smaller than the cost of development. Further, there's no risk in copying. They already do, and in some areas I think government or educational institutions would actually be more efficient, in terms of using available resources and creating beneficial advances for everyone, than the current state of affairs. Some, but not all. The problem that I see with that is that it tends to put tremendous power in the hands of the wise committee and eliminates risk taking. I've got friends who work at small start ups working on an AIDS drug. The present model allows them to take a significant risk of failure, knowing that the payoff for success will pay for it. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: [Listref] House Cats and Ferrets Are Easily Infected With SARS Virus
...New research shows that common house pets such as cats and ferrets may easily become infected with the SARS virus and spread the disease to others. I will have to crack down and keep my cat out of China and Toronto :-) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] House Cats and Ferrets Are Easily Infected With SARSVirus
- Original Message - From: Gary Nunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 7:16 PM Subject: RE: [Listref] House Cats and Ferrets Are Easily Infected With SARSVirus ...New research shows that common house pets such as cats and ferrets may easily become infected with the SARS virus and spread the disease to others. I will have to crack down and keep my cat out of China and Toronto :-) Stay off the hutch or its no more Lone Ranger for you Felix! xponent Ronns Schtick Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean
On 4 Nov 2003 at 17:09, The Fool wrote: From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] And pharmacutical corporations are still evil greedy vile money woshiping pigs, only developing therapies they can patent. You don't think you are evil, right Fool? What is evil? These malicious corporations that could develop all kinds of medical treatments, but instead only develop ones they can patent, are the true essence of evil. If they can't make money on it, then they won't be arround to MAKE the next generation of treatments, ANY treatments. Don't blame the companies, blame Patent laws. Especially US patent laws. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean
On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 07:23:58PM -0600, Dan Minette wrote: From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] variable terms depending on the item and the quality of the invention). As far as 5 years go; in the industries that I am familiar with, five years is a short time for patents. It probably takes at least a couple of years to develop, and that just leaves about 3 years of coverage. Remember, the patent application must be made before any disclosure of the ideas in the patent or the first commercial use. But not things with high NRE associated with development. If a lead of a Yes, things with high NRE. How about (D)ARPANET? Drugs are a classic example of this. Once a drug has passed clinical trials, the cost of copying is much smaller than the cost of development. Further, there's no risk in copying. Is there risk in searching for cancer cures? I suppose NIH doesn't take any risks with their billions of $$ spent ? -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Continuing Education
http://www.csi.edu/ip/ce/yesology/ The power of devotion.G xponent Amazed Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Erik Reuter wrote: On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 07:23:58PM -0600, Dan Minette wrote: Drugs are a classic example of this. Once a drug has passed clinical trials, the cost of copying is much smaller than the cost of development. Further, there's no risk in copying. Is there risk in searching for cancer cures? I suppose NIH doesn't take any risks with their billions of $$ spent ? NIH is funded by the government, it is *not* a corporation. (And they had a decent pension plan awhile back, don't know what it's like now.) Maybe the US government should be involved in drug research, then? Because either a corporation is doing the research or the government is. (If there's another alternative I'm overlooking, please mention it.) And they've been involved in trying to find cancer cures for a good number of years -- I remember stories about my grandmother dealing with rats in the 1950s -- and they haven't come up with much of a *cure* yet. They do know more about cancer, though. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean
On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 09:18:49PM -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: NIH is funded by the government, it is *not* a corporation. News flash from Julia! -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean
- Original Message - From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:44 PM Subject: Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 09:18:49PM -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: NIH is funded by the government, it is *not* a corporation. News flash from Julia! Ass flash from Erik! xponent Headlines Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean
On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 09:57:09PM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: Ass flash from Erik! Butt in from Rob! -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean
Erik wrote: News flash from Julia! rob replied: Ass flash from Erik! The flashers on my car went out today. Just thought I'd toss that in there. Reggie Bautista _ MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search... http://shopping.msn.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean
- Original Message - From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 10:15 PM Subject: Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 09:57:09PM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: Ass flash from Erik! Butt in from Rob! Yikes! Now he's turned around and revealed his shortcomings! xponent Back At Ya Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean
On 4 Nov 2003 at 18:57, Jon Gabriel wrote: I do believe the price markup on drugs is WAY too damned high. But imo, you'd have to be a fool to think they would do it out of the goodness of their hearts. Even if they *wanted* to, it would be impossible. Agreed. That doesn't make the current situation with patent laws less broken or in need of reform, however. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
