Re: Are you in the right religion?
On Aug 2, 2005, at 8:35 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 8/2/2005 8:14:15 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Liberal Quakers? All their carts come with horses in Depends. Anti-polution devices, dontcha know. Wrong group. You're thinking of the Amish. Quakers are actually pretty damned liberal; they were one of the few Xtian groups actively opposed to Viet Nam long before it became fashionable. IIRC it was because of Quakers that the term conscientious objector came into being. As Julia pointed out, a Quaker meeting is interesting. And very very quiet. -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Are you in the right religion?
At 10:13 PM Tuesday 8/2/2005, Doug Pensinger wrote: Liberal Quakers? Produce microwavable oatmeal. -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Are you in the right religion?
Dave Land wrote: Apparently, I AM in the right religion: Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (100%). I currently attend and worship at a United Methodist church, which is pretty well over on the Liberal end of Mainline Christian Protestantism. I find it fascinating that Roman Catholocism is so remote from the Christian Protestants. According to mine, I am 98% Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants, yet only 14% Catholic. In between is 30% Islam, 66% Buddhism, and 82% Neo-Pagan. Cheers Russell C. (Anglican married to a Catholic) --- This email (including any attachments) is confidential and copyright. The School makes no warranty about the content of this email. Unless expressly stated, this email does not bind the School and does not necessarily constitute the opinion of the School. If you have received this email in error, please delete it and notify the sender. --- GWAVAsig ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags
On 3 Aug 2005, at 12:24 am, Dave Land wrote: On Aug 2, 2005, at 3:35 PM, William T Goodall wrote: I don't think it's easily eradicated. I didn't say that. I said, and you quoted it, that 'religion is one of the easiest causes of evil to eradicate.' True. Eradicating religion isn't an easy project, but it is easier than changing human nature or one of the other hard to eradicate causes of evil. You formerly held that religion is evil and should be eradicated. You now seem believe that religion is merely a cause of evil. Is that progress, or are they about the same thing in your mind? I suspect English is not your native language. Causing evil is evil. The fact is, I think we will always have to contend with evil. Learning to live in a world that contains things that hurt us (gravity, storms, poisonous plants, certain forms of religion, certain forms of atheism) is one of the major purposes of life. We should just put up with as there is nothing we can do? I'm more optimistic than you. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ The three chief virtues of a programmer are: Laziness, Impatience and Hubris - Larry Wall ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags
On 3 Aug 2005, at 4:29 am, Doug Pensinger wrote: William wrote: Eradicating religion isn't an easy project, but it is easier than changing human nature or one of the other hard to eradicate causes of evil. I would argue that a need to explain the unexplainable _is_ human nature and that religion provides those explanations. The more we are able to understand our universe, the less we will need the imaginary explanations provided by religion. Indeed, outside of the U.S. and less developed nations, the need for religion seems to be waning. The degree to which the people of U.S. cling to religion baffles me. ShrubMoron is speaking out on behalf of intelligent design again: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na- creation3aug03,0,3586432.story?track=tottext http://tinyurl.com/8zgqu Advocates of an alternative to the theory of evolution took heart Tuesday from President Bush's remarks that both sides ought to be properly taught in public schools. In an interview with several Texas newspapers Monday, Bush was asked about the growing debate over the idea of intelligent design, which holds that intelligent causes are responsible for the origin of the universe and of life. I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought, Bush said. And I'm not suggesting — you're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, and the answer is yes. This new American Lysenkoism, based on ridiculous religious ideas, will decimat e a generation of potential life-scientists in the USA. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Maybe Windows is good for people who *think* they're geeks, but are not very good at it. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Are you in the right religion?
On 3 Aug 2005, at 12:59 am, Warren Ockrassa wrote: Apropos of nothing specific, here's a quiz that alleges to tell you which religions are more in line with your personal weltanschauung: http://beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html 1. Secular Humanism (100%) 2. Unitarian Universalism (93%) 3. Nontheist (91%) 4. Liberal Quakers (72%) 5. Theravada Buddhism (71%) 6. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (65%) 7. Neo-Pagan (61%) 8. Bahá'í Faith (48%) 9. Reform Judaism (41%) 10. Taoism (41%) 11. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (41%) 12. Sikhism (38%) 13. New Age (37%) 14. Orthodox Quaker (34%) 15. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (34%) 16. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (34%) 17. New Thought (27%) 18. Mahayana Buddhism (25%) 19. Scientology (24%) 20. Eastern Orthodox (23%) 21. Islam (23%) 22. Orthodox Judaism (23%) 23. Roman Catholic (23%) 24. Seventh Day Adventist (20%) 25. Jehovah's Witness (20%) 26. Jainism (19%) 27. Hinduism (17%) -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Maybe Windows is good for people who *think* they're geeks, but are not very good at it. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Are you in the right religion?
2005/8/3, Russell Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I find it fascinating that Roman Catholocism is so remote from the Christian Protestants. According to mine, I am 98% Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants, yet only 14% Catholic. In between is 30% Islam, 66% Buddhism, and 82% Neo-Pagan. Cheers Russell C. (Anglican married to a Catholic) Don't forget that the results are skewed towards the opinions/prejudices of the test's creator. Many of the possible answers looked to me like they were there to differentiate between Protestant and Catholic, with the Catholic answer being a typical Protestant caricature of our beliefs. (E.g. the nature of the Trinity) I didn't make it to the end of the questionnaire. Jean-Louis ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Are you in the right religion?
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jean-Louis Couturier Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 10:24 AM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: Are you in the right religion? 2005/8/3, Russell Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I find it fascinating that Roman Catholocism is so remote from the Christian Protestants. According to mine, I am 98% Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants, yet only 14% Catholic. In between is 30% Islam, 66% Buddhism, and 82% Neo-Pagan. Cheers Russell C. (Anglican married to a Catholic) Don't forget that the results are skewed towards the opinions/prejudices of the test's creator. Many of the possible answers looked to me like they were there to differentiate between Protestant and Catholic, with the Catholic answer being a typical Protestant caricature of our beliefs. (E.g. the nature of the Trinity) I didn't make it to the end of the questionnaire. Jean-Louis ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l what was it... 3 4 pages? At 5 questions each Takes like 2 mins to do it. and you spout about how it was done... and how the questions were geared, yet you never even finished it. You must have done up to the 2nd page did ya? Nick neo pagan Lidster Hehehe im NEO. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags
On Aug 3, 2005, at 5:39 AM, William T Goodall wrote: This new American Lysenkoism, based on ridiculous religious ideas, will decimat e a generation of potential life-scientists in the USA. I'm at least as disturbed by this as you are, but it's a bit of a leap to go from ID-iocy to to suggesting that the reason there's so much prison rape is religion. Not that I expect you to see that it's such a leap; I've begun to realize you're kind of in a rut here. :\ -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags
On 3 Aug 2005, at 4:26 pm, Warren Ockrassa wrote: On Aug 3, 2005, at 5:39 AM, William T Goodall wrote: This new American Lysenkoism, based on ridiculous religious ideas, will decimate a generation of potential life-scientists in the USA. I'm at least as disturbed by this as you are, but it's a bit of a leap to go from ID-iocy to to suggesting that the reason there's so much prison rape is religion. Not that I expect you to see that it's such a leap; It's perfectly obvious; no leaping (or levitating) required. A country riddled with primitive superstition is bound to show an equal lack of advancement in other areas. I've begun to realize you're kind of in a rut here. :\ Better than the rut of evil superstitious nonsense :) -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ The three chief virtues of a programmer are: Laziness, Impatience and Hubris - Larry Wall ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Weekly Chat Reminder
As Steve said, The Brin-L weekly chat has been a list tradition for over six years. Way back on 27 May, 1998, Marco Maisenhelder first set up a chatroom for the list, and on the next day, he established a weekly chat time. We've been through several servers, chat technologies, and even casts of regulars over the years, but the chat goes on... and we want more recruits! Whether you're an active poster or a lurker, whether you've been a member of the list from the beginning or just joined today, we would really like for you to join us. We have less politics, more Uplift talk, and more light-hearted discussion. We're non-fattening and 100% environmentally friendly... -(_() Though sometimes marshmallows do get thrown. The Weekly Brin-L chat is scheduled for Wednesday 3 PM Eastern/2 PM Central time in the US, or 7 PM Greenwich time. There's usually somebody there to talk to for at least eight hours after the start time. If you want to attend, it's really easy now. All you have to do is send your web browser to: http://wtgab.demon.co.uk/~brinl/mud/ ..And you can connect directly from William's new web interface! My instruction page tells you how to log on, and how to talk when you get in: http://www.brin-l.org/brinmud.html It also gives a list of commands to use when you're in there. In addition, it tells you how to connect through a MUD client, which is more complicated to set up initially, but easier and more reliable than the web interface once you do get it set up. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ This message was sent automatically using cron. But even if WTG is away on holiday, at least it shows the server is still up. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags
On Aug 3, 2005, at 8:42 AM, William T Goodall wrote: I've begun to realize you're kind of in a rut here. :\ Better than the rut of evil superstitious nonsense :) A rut that prevents critical thinking is a rut that prevents critical thinking, whether it is based on belief in pink unicorns or just your lonely little self. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: What interrogation techniques are ethical and practical?
Gary Denton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/11/05, Deborah Harrell wrote: snippage (It appears that the following was incorrectly attributed to Dan; I actually wrote this paragraph.) If torture were used on people who have a real chance of providing a lead in a genuine ticking bomb circumstance, by those who _know_ both quoted conditions are true, it would meet my 'practical idealism' requirements. I also factor in 'what would *I* be willing to do' in that situation -- is the potential payoff (in terms of saving lives) worth the stain on my soul (or spirit, or heart, for the List's Unsouled ;} )? I am reasonably sure that I am capable of killing or even torture if I was certain (1)that lives would be saved (2)the targeted person was not an innocent (to the best of my knowledge) (3)the conditions in quotes above exist. I am quite sure that I'd vomit to the point of bleeding dry heaves afterward, and have nightmares for a very long time, if not the rest of my life. and she replied (Just continuing the thoughts, actually -) The season finale of 24 addressed just exactly that scenario (nuclear device stolen by terrorists, one of whom Jack has his hands on -- and tortures). The interesting thing about *24* is that torture was used in several instances for the reasons Dan believes it could be justified but really did not give accurate information. There are many problems with torture and once you justify it for one case you will find it used for a great many While that last instance in that episode does meet my personal criteria (which I'd guess would be met only in tiny fraction of a percent in the real world: less than 0.01%?) -- nevertheless, I also wrote in that post: I don't think that torture can be official gov't policy for reasons you [Dan] listed -- that slope is just too bloody slippery... I'm fairly certain that both of us remarked in other posts that a very practical reason to avoid torture is for future US troops' or civilians' sakes. Sending individuals off to other countries where they will be tortured is also verboten, then, in my book. Similarly, I don't think that the government should decide whose plug is pulled - that should be a matter for the patient, family and clinicians (there is the occassional need for a legal guardian, as in orphans or if somebody is known not to have the on-life-support person's best interests in mind ). I don't want the gov't to decide who has sex with whom, as long as only consenting adults are concerned. Some decisions are so personal that they ought not be legislated -- the flip side is that making such choices should be a grave matter for those involved, approached reverentially and with a great deal of soul-searching. Debbi What Would Buffy Do? Maru Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags
On 3 Aug 2005, at 7:15 pm, Dave Land wrote: On Aug 3, 2005, at 8:42 AM, William T Goodall wrote: I've begun to realize you're kind of in a rut here. :\ Better than the rut of evil superstitious nonsense :) A rut that prevents critical thinking is a rut that prevents critical thinking, whether it is based on belief in pink unicorns or just your lonely little self. Well, you've taken the first step to seeing what's wrong with your worldview anyway, although perhaps you are being a bit harsh on 'your lonely little self' :) -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again. -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags
William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Better than the rut of evil superstitious nonsense :) gigantic yawn B-O-R-I-N-G... Do you really think that the Broken Record technique (which is what you're applying here) is going to accomplish your goals - whatever the heck they are? If you want to be interesting, *please* use some creativity instead of monotone, monochrome sheepspeak. Debbi Four Feet Good, Two Feet Bad Maru :P Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags
On 3 Aug 2005, at 9:25 pm, Deborah Harrell wrote: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Better than the rut of evil superstitious nonsense :) gigantic yawn B-O-R-I-N-G... Do you really think that the Broken Record technique (which is what you're applying here) is going to accomplish your goals - whatever the heck they are? To educate and enlighten? If you want to be interesting, *please* use some creativity instead of monotone, monochrome sheepspeak. LOL. I'd rather be right than interesting any day of the week :) -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Aerospace is plumbing with the volume turned up. - John Carmack ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Are you in the right religion?
Warren Ockrassa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apropos of nothing specific, here's a quiz that alleges to tell you which religions are more in line with your personal weltanschauung: http://beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html I got (1-9 don't surprise me much): 1.Unitarian Universalism (100%) 2.Liberal Quakers (94%) 3.Secular Humanism (92%) 4.Theravada Buddhism (88%) 5.Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (82%) 6.Taoism (69%) 7.Neo-Pagan (66%) 8.Nontheist (65%) 9.Mahayana Buddhism (63%) 10. Bahá'í Faith (56%)... Hey, there weren't any categories for heretics! ;) I selected one sentence from each group below with which I particularly agree. Moi: 1. Liberal Quakers (100%) The primary focus is nondogmatic: God is love, love is eternal, and our actions in life should reflect love for all of humanity. 2. Neo-Pagan (98%) No human incarnations are worshipped in particular, as all of nature and the universe are considered embodiments of God and Goddess, or of gods and goddesses, worthy of respect, reverence, or worship. 3. Unitarian Universalism (96%) Most believe that God is good and made people inherently good but also with free will and an imperfect nature that leads some to immoral behavior. 4. New Age (92%) Most believe there are no particular incarnations to worship, as all in the universe are embodiments of God. [I actually _don't_ think of myself as a NewAger at all, not going in for tarot or crystal-gazing, and I _do_ believe that evil exists, though not as a personal Devil.] 5. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (83%) Goodness will somehow be rewarded and evil punished after death, but what is most important is how you show your faith and conduct your life on earth. 6. Mahayana Buddhism (82%) Buddha taught the middle path, moderation. 7. Reform Judaism (82%) Salvation is achieved through faith and prayer to God, good works, concern for the earth and humanity, and behavior that does no harm to others. 8. Bahá'í Faith (78%) Hell is the self-made torture of isolation from God--spiritual death. 9. Secular Humanism (69%) The scientific method is most respected as the means for revealing the mysteries of the origins of the universe and life. 10. Theravada Buddhism (67%) People have free will to commit wrongs or rights. So, other than the critical-mass NewAger, that's not too far from my self-proclaimed (with recent revision) belief system, I think... Debbi Heretic-Lutheran Gaian-Deist Maru __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags
On Aug 3, 2005, at 1:50 PM, William T Goodall wrote: LOL. I'd rather be right than interesting any day of the week :) Hmm, so far you're 0 for 2. -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags
--- William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LOL. I'd rather be right than interesting any day of the week :) -- William T Goodall I note (for historical interest, if nothing else) than Henry Clay once said I'd rather be right than President. To which Andrew Jackson (I believe) immediately replied, Senator, you'll never be either. Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags
William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3 Aug 2005, at 9:25 pm, Deborah Harrell wrote: snip If you want to be interesting, *please* use some creativity instead of monotone, monochrome sheepspeak. LOL. I'd rather be right than interesting any day of the week :) So this is obviously a bad week, hmm? wicked little smile Debbi You Knew That Was Coming! Maru __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Designer Genes (was: Gulags)
William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip ShrubMoron is speaking out on behalf of intelligent design again: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na- creation3aug03,0,3586432.story?track=tottext http://tinyurl.com/8zgqu Advocates of an alternative to the theory of evolution took heart Tuesday from President Bush's remarks that both sides ought to be properly taught in public schools. In an interview with several Texas newspapers Monday, Bush was asked about the growing debate over the idea of intelligent design, which holds that intelligent causes are responsible for the origin of the universe and of life... While I personally find most of Nature so complexly gorgeous as to suggest a Designer, let us consider merely one facet of anatomy: the proximity of the procreative organs to eliminatory orifices. Need I say more? Debbi Tymbrimi Humor, Or Tytlal? Maru Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Designer Genes (was: Gulags)
--- Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While I personally find most of Nature so complexly gorgeous as to suggest a Designer, let us consider merely one facet of anatomy: the proximity of the procreative organs to eliminatory orifices. Need I say more? Debbi Tymbrimi Humor, Or Tytlal? Maru At MIT, this is usually held to be proof that God is a civil engineer, because who else would run a waste disposal line through a recreational area? :-) Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Is this really necessary advice?
Apparently this sign was outside a Louisiana church a while back. http://www.churchsigngenerator.com/churchsigns.php?filter=dishonor Perhaps by denying the value of religion certain individuals are suggesting that incest is acceptable. -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Black Days In July
Commuters in London, children getting candy in Iraq, holiday-makers in Egypt...there is no excuse or justification for such attacks. Then there was this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,1537600,00.html Key figures in the largest child abuse trial ever held in France were sentenced to up to 28 years in jail yesterday after a jury convicted them of raping, molesting and prostituting children, including their own. The court found that between January 1999 and February 2002, the 65 defendants had sexually abused 45 children, then aged from six months to 14 years, sometimes in exchange for cash, drink, cartons of cigarettes or, on one occasion, a car tyre... ...The case has been described by lawyers and social workers involved as a barely imaginable example of the breakdown of all social, moral and human values in a closed and deprived community. A 28-year prison term was given to Philippe V, 59, who had already served a 13-year term for child abuse and was described by prosecutors as an indifferent monster who had, over the years, raped his daughter, son and four grandchildren. He told the court that he couldn't give a toss about his offspring... No excuse. None. Debbi Between Despair And Fury Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags
On Aug 3, 2005, at 2:18 PM, Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LOL. I'd rather be right than interesting any day of the week :) -- William T Goodall I note (for historical interest, if nothing else) than Henry Clay once said I'd rather be right than President. To which Andrew Jackson (I believe) immediately replied, Senator, you'll never be either. Gautam wins 1000 points! 500 for bring the first interesting post in this thread since it fell into WTG's rut, historicity, 350 for historicity and 150 bonus points because I think I owe him from an earlier round. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Is this really necessary advice?
On Aug 3, 2005, at 2:40 PM, Warren Ockrassa wrote: Apparently this sign was outside a Louisiana church a while back. http://www.churchsigngenerator.com/churchsigns.php?filter=dishonor Perhaps by denying the value of religion certain individuals are suggesting that incest is acceptable. There are more than 31,000 verses in the Bible, and this is the one they put on a sign? What about Genesis 27:11? And Jacob said to Rebekah his mother, Behold, Esau my brother is a hairy man, and I am a smooth man That's at *least* as useful. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags
At 03:25 PM Wednesday 8/3/2005, Deborah Harrell wrote: Debbi Four Feet Good, Two Feet Bad Maru Whoever said that size doesn't matter . . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags
At 03:50 PM Wednesday 8/3/2005, William T Goodall wrote: On 3 Aug 2005, at 9:25 pm, Deborah Harrell wrote: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Better than the rut of evil superstitious nonsense :) gigantic yawn B-O-R-I-N-G... Do you really think that the Broken Record technique (which is what you're applying here) is going to accomplish your goals - whatever the heck they are? To educate and enlighten? If you want to be interesting, *please* use some creativity instead of monotone, monochrome sheepspeak. LOL. I'd rather be right than interesting any day of the week Most of the people who read your posts on this topic would be happy with either one. :D -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Yet There Are Glimmers...
Finally, moderate Muslims are speaking out more strongly: http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/28/american.muslims.ap/ American Muslim scholars who interpret religious law for their community issued an edict Thursday condemning terrorism against civilians in response to the wave of deadly attacks in Britain and other countries. In the statement, called a fatwa, the 18-member Fiqh Council of North America wrote that people who commit terrorism in the name of Islam were criminals, not `martyrs.' There is no justification in Islam for extremism or terrorism, the scholars wrote. Targeting civilians' life and property through suicide bombings or any other method of attack is haram -- or forbidden... ...The Muslim Public Affairs Council, an advocacy group based in Los Angeles, started the National Anti-Terrorism Campaign last year, urging Muslims to monitor their own communities, speak out more boldly against violence and work with law enforcement officials. The Council on American-Islamic Relations, a Washington-based civil rights organization, is running a TV ad and a petition-drive called Not in the Name of Islam, which repudiates terrorism. In New York and other cities, mosque leaders have joined advisory committees created by the FBI to build relations between law enforcement and their local communities... And technology is helping the Kenyan farmer: http://web.idrc.ca/en/ev-47033-201-1-DO_TOPIC.html ...At dawn, while Kenya turns in its sleep, Peter Kimani is awake and on his way to Karatina Central Farmers Market, the largest produce market in Eastern Africa, to dispose of his produce. The onions, tomatoes, cabbages, and avocadoes will later be transported to Wakulima Market in Nairobi, the largest wholesale farmers market in East Africa, with about 10 000 traders. Kimani is a smallholder farmer in Kirinyaga District, central Kenya, an area endowed with rich soils and rainfall. However, its large population has forced the subdivision of land into smallholder plots, which has eventually depressed the area's productivity. The father of three makes his living selling fruit and vegetables to the larger Nairobi. He has a one-acre plot. He does not earn a lot of money; on a typical day, he takes home US$5. Prices are not good here. They have been bad for a while, he says. Indeed, the price of horticultural products has been depressed for a while at Karatina's Central Farmers Market. Yet, by the time Kimani's produce reaches the Wakulima market, the prices will have ballooned by about 40%... ...The drum was used to pass information in Africa, whether the news was about a funeral or a fire outbreak, says Adera. We are now moving from the drum to the Internet, from the African drum to the latest technology. The researchers believe that the provision of financial, marketing, and information services to peasant farmers will result in increased market access and an enhanced ability to make informed marketing decisions. This will eventually have an impact on overall market efficiency and finally help reduce poverty. DrumNet plans to offer its members a range of for-fee services, including market linkages, real-time market price information, the coordination of produce transport, and group purchase of farm inputs, as well as information on leading farming techniques... More about DrumNet: http://www.prideafrica.com/projects.htm While on a darker but sweeter note, more about health benefits of dark chocolate (although this is a _tiny_ study): http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/07/19/heart.chocolate.reut/index.html Dark chocolate can not only soothe your soul but can lower blood pressure too, researchers reported Monday. The study, published by the American Heart Association, joins a growing body of research that show compounds found in chocolate called flavonoids can help the blood vessels work more smoothly, perhaps reducing the risk of heart disease. Previous studies suggest flavonoid-rich foods, including fruits, vegetables, tea, red wine and chocolate, might offer cardiovascular benefits, but this is one of the first clinical trials to look specifically at dark chocolate's effect on lowering blood pressure among people with hypertension, said Jeffrey Blumberg of Tufts University in Boston, who led the study... ...Blumberg and colleagues at the University of L'Aquila in Italy studied 10 men and 10 women with high blood pressure. For 15 days, half ate a daily 3.5 ounce (100 gram) bar of specially formulated, flavonoid-rich dark chocolate, while the other half ate the same amount of white chocolate. Then each group crossed over and ate the other chocolate. White chocolate, which has no flavonoids, was the perfect control food because it contains all the other ingredients and calories found in dark chocolate, Blumberg said. It's important to note that the dark chocolate we used had a high level of flavonoids, giving it a slightly bittersweet taste. Most Americans eat milk chocolate, which has a low
Re: Designer Genes and Gulags
Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While I personally find most of Nature so complexly gorgeous as to suggest a Designer, let us consider merely one facet of anatomy: the proximity of the procreative organs to eliminatory orifices. Need I say more? At MIT, this is usually held to be proof that God is a civil engineer, because who else would run a waste disposal line through a recreational area? :-) Ouch! Hadn't heard that version before. ;} And keeping with the theme, Ronn! wrote: Debbi Four Feet Good, Two Feet Bad Maru Whoever said that size doesn't matter . . . . Hey, *I* didn't bring horses into this discussion... Debbi who is having to suppress a laughing fit brought on by the Freudian transposition of c and s in that last word (Really! Caught it just before tapping Send!);D Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gulags
On 3 Aug 2005, at 11:18 pm, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 03:50 PM Wednesday 8/3/2005, William T Goodall wrote: On 3 Aug 2005, at 9:25 pm, Deborah Harrell wrote: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Better than the rut of evil superstitious nonsense :) gigantic yawn B-O-R-I-N-G... Do you really think that the Broken Record technique (which is what you're applying here) is going to accomplish your goals - whatever the heck they are? To educate and enlighten? If you want to be interesting, *please* use some creativity instead of monotone, monochrome sheepspeak. LOL. I'd rather be right than interesting any day of the week Most of the people who read your posts on this topic would be happy with either one. :D They must be delighted to be getting both every time then! Now that's value! -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Maybe Windows is good for people who *think* they're geeks, but are not very good at it. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Widely different reports of prison rape between UK and US
- Original Message - From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 6:59 PM Subject: Re: Gulags http://www.spr.org/en/academicarticles/odonnell.html Why is it that an aspect of prison life that appears to be so tightly woven into the prisoner's experience in the United States is not to be found in any concentrated form in the UK? I've followed this discussion, and it is interesting that this one report's findings was accepted without any thought to cross referencing. So, I decided to do that. First, almost by coincidence, the Justice department has released the first official survey of rape in US prisons. http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storyu=/nm/20050731/us_nm/rights_rape_dc_1 There were less than 4000 reported cases of inmate-on-inmate rapes last year. That translates into about a 0.2% probability for a person in prison. The report itself indicated that this number was low, giving a number of reasons why prisoners would not be forthcoming about being raped. So, I'll not pretend that the US number is low. But, this report indicates that the reported rape rate in US prisions is lowwhich can be compared to the survey results in GB. Unless one can show that there is not significant underreporting in surveys in GB, like there is in the official US report, then one needs to consider that the differences are the differences when one compares apples and oranges. Second, there is the question of the more polite British society. Well, for a more polite society, the violent crime rate is very highsignificantly higher than the US. Looking at the Ecconomist report: http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=513031 one sees that the British report having experienced violent crime at twice the rate seen in the US. There is a greater than 5x difference in the rates of car theft. One might ask, but what about official reported numbers? They are about the same. It's interesting that the officially reported violent crime rate and the survey crime rate in the US are about the same, while the survey crime rate in the UK is 2x higher than the official police number. Officially reported rape rates have been changing substantially in both the US and the UK...in different directions. In the US, it's fallen from about 0.25% to about 0.05% between the mid-70s and 2003 (the last reporting year. In GB, I only have numbers going back to '95, but during that time the officially reported rape rate increased from .009% to .025%. Clearly the gap is rapidly shrinking. All this is occuring even though the demographics for the UK doesn't show the second peak in the 10-25 age range that the US does. Since young males are responsible for much of the crime, this alone could be responsible for about a 10% difference in the crime rate. In short, the numbers do not lead one to easy conclusionsexcept the obvious one, prisoners are hesitant to complain about being raped in prison. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Widely different reports of prison rape between UK and US
On 4 Aug 2005, at 2:01 am, Dan Minette wrote: - Original Message - From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 6:59 PM Subject: Re: Gulags http://www.spr.org/en/academicarticles/odonnell.html Why is it that an aspect of prison life that appears to be so tightly woven into the prisoner's experience in the United States is not to be found in any concentrated form in the UK? I've followed this discussion, and it is interesting that this one report's findings was accepted without any thought to cross referencing. So, I decided to do that. It's a report by a criminologist published in a criminology journal with footnotes and everything! First, almost by coincidence, the Justice department has released the first official survey of rape in US prisons. http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storyu=/nm/20050731/us_nm/ rights_rape_dc_1 There were less than 4000 reported cases of inmate-on-inmate rapes last year. That translates into about a 0.2% probability for a person in prison. The report itself indicated that this number was low, giving a number of reasons why prisoners would not be forthcoming about being raped. Whereas this report admits that it is completely flawed and more or less worthless. So, I'll not pretend that the US number is low. But, this report indicates that the reported rape rate in US prisions is lowwhich can be compared to the survey results in GB. Unless one can show that there is not significant underreporting in surveys in GB, like there is in the official US report, then one needs to consider that the differences are the differences when one compares apples and oranges. Second, there is the question of the more polite British society. Well, for a more polite society, the violent crime rate is very highsignificantly higher than the US. Looking at the Ecconomist report: http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=513031 And this has *nothing to do with prison rape at all* -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ The three chief virtues of a programmer are: Laziness, Impatience and Hubris - Larry Wall ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: What interrogation techniques are ethical and practical?
- Original Message - From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 2:15 PM Subject: Re: What interrogation techniques are ethical and practical? Similarly, I don't think that the government should decide whose plug is pulled - that should be a matter for the patient, family and clinicians (there is the occassional need for a legal guardian, as in orphans or if somebody is known not to have the on-life-support person's best interests in mind ). I think the government should intervene in cases as clear cut as Not-Dead Fred.*** Dan M. ***See Spamalot. Actually, it's a wonderful play, you should see it if you can. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Are you in the right religion?
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Deborah Harrell http://beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html I got (1-9 don't surprise me much): 1. Unitarian Universalism (100%) 2. Liberal Quakers (94%) 3. Secular Humanism (92%) 4. Theravada Buddhism (88%) 5. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (82%) 6. Taoism (69%) 7. Neo-Pagan (66%) 8. Nontheist (65%) 9. Mahayana Buddhism (63%) 10. Bahá'í Faith (56%)... I got: 1. Unitarian Universalism (100%) 2. Liberal Quakers (87%) 3. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (86%) 4. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (84%) 5. New Age (80%) 6. Neo-Pagan (79%) 7. New Thought (76%) 8. Secular Humanism (73%) 9. Scientology (72%) 10. Mahayana Buddhism (69%) 11. Taoism (62%) 12. Theravada Buddhism (62%) Hey, there weren't any categories for heretics! ;) I selected one sentence from each group below with which I particularly agree. Moi: 1. Liberal Quakers (100%) The primary focus is nondogmatic: God is love, love is eternal, and our actions in life should reflect love for all of humanity. 2. Neo-Pagan (98%) No human incarnations are worshipped in particular, as all of nature and the universe are considered embodiments of God and Goddess, or of gods and goddesses, worthy of respect, reverence, or worship. 3. Unitarian Universalism (96%) Most believe that God is good and made people inherently good but also with free will and an imperfect nature that leads some to immoral behavior. 4. New Age (92%) Most believe there are no particular incarnations to worship, as all in the universe are embodiments of God. [I actually _don't_ think of myself as a NewAger at all, not going in for tarot or crystal-gazing, and I _do_ believe that evil exists, though not as a personal Devil.] 5. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (83%) Goodness will somehow be rewarded and evil punished after death, but what is most important is how you show your faith and conduct your life on earth. 6. Mahayana Buddhism (82%) Buddha taught the middle path, moderation. 7. Reform Judaism (82%) Salvation is achieved through faith and prayer to God, good works, concern for the earth and humanity, and behavior that does no harm to others. 8. Bahá'í Faith (78%) Hell is the self-made torture of isolation from God--spiritual death. 9. Secular Humanism (69%) The scientific method is most respected as the means for revealing the mysteries of the origins of the universe and life. 10. Theravada Buddhism (67%) People have free will to commit wrongs or rights. So, other than the critical-mass NewAger, that's not too far from my self-proclaimed (with recent revision) belief system, I think... Debbi Heretic-Lutheran Gaian-Deist Maru Thank you for the summaries :) Still think I am a Taoist Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Are you in the right religion?
Oy vey, it thinks I'm Jewish. :-) Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Designer Genes and Gulags
Deborah Harrell wrote: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While I personally find most of Nature so complexly gorgeous as to suggest a Designer, let us consider merely one facet of anatomy: the proximity of the procreative organs to eliminatory orifices. Need I say more? At MIT, this is usually held to be proof that God is a civil engineer, because who else would run a waste disposal line through a recreational area? :-) Ouch! Hadn't heard that version before. ;} And keeping with the theme, Ronn! wrote: Debbi Four Feet Good, Two Feet Bad Maru Whoever said that size doesn't matter . . . . Hey, *I* didn't bring horses into this discussion... How about zebras? The male zebra I see on a regular basis is reasonably endowed Julia depending on where I am, if I hear hoofbeats, the logical thing is actually to think zebra :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Are you in the right religion?
At 10:14 PM Wednesday 8/3/2005, Dan Minette wrote: Oy vey, it thinks I'm Jewish. :-) Sometimes any possible response would come up a bit short . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
