Re: Wal-Mart efficiency (was Re: My annual Xmas tirade...)

[The Fool]

> From: Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> 
> From: "The Fool"

> 
> > Do you exclude food from your calculations? (Most food isn't grown
in
> > Red China)
> 
> No, I didn't realize that certain things "didn't count" as products
for
> you.  But, I'll be happy to look at non-food items as a catagory. 
The
> superpermarket sales (which clearly includes non-food items, but what
the
> heck) is about $50 billion.  That leaves almost 250 billion in
non-food
> sales.

Because most wal-marts don't have a supermarket section?

> 
> >Do you also exclude srevices wal-mart has like their automotive
service
> dept?
> 
> Are you seriously arguing that the $18.95 lube special is a
significant
> portion of the Wal-Mart income?  I'd guess that this would be balaced
out
> by the non-food items sold in the supermarket, but let me be very
very
> generous and assume that these sales amount to about $20
billion/year.
> That still leaves about $220 billion/year.  15 billion is about 7% of
that.
> Well under 10%.
> 
> Unless you can find a way to make about 90% of Wal-Mart's sales "not
count"
> for one reason or another, your statement is false.  I've been very
> generous in granting you the right to exclude things, and still end
up with
> less than 10% from China.

Are you seriously saying that walmart sells for $1.00 goods for every
$1.00 of goods they buy? I thought they made 3.x % profit after taking
out the percentage for average pay for workers (including--if
any--benifits) and sales taxes.

Then list for us how much in goods they get from other countries like
mexico, honduras, india, taiwan, japan, korea, etc.

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Re: Texas Wins!

[Ronn!Blankenship]

At 11:30 PM Wednesday 1/4/2006, Robert G. Seeberger wrote:

Wow!
What a great game!
Anyone could have won in the last few minutes.



Anyone?  Or only someone who happened to be playing?


--Ronn!  :)

"Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country 
and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER 
GOD.  Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that 
would be eliminated from schools too?"

   -- Red Skelton

(Someone asked me to change my .sig quote back, so I did.)




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Re: Texas Wins!

[Julia Thompson]

Robert G. Seeberger wrote:

Wow!
What a great game!
Anyone could have won in the last few minutes.

One of the best games I've seen in years.


xponent
Vince Maru
rob 


41-38

That was the most intense 4 minutes I've had with clothes on in a very 
long time!!!


YAY HORNS!

Julia

happy happy alumna maru
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Texas Wins!

[Robert G. Seeberger]

Wow!
What a great game!
Anyone could have won in the last few minutes.

One of the best games I've seen in years.


xponent
Vince Maru
rob 


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Re: "Let's Roll"

[Ronn!Blankenship]

At 09:44 PM Wednesday 1/4/2006, Julia Thompson wrote:

Ronn!Blankenship wrote:

At 06:21 PM Wednesday 1/4/2006, Robert Seeberger wrote:


- Original Message -
From: "Julia Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: "Let's Roll"


> Robert Seeberger wrote:
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 1:23 PM
>> Subject: Re: "Let's Roll"
>>
>>
>>
>>>Just stumbled on this this morning. It is an "Unreal" (the game)
>>>stabilized version of the Zapruder film.
>>>
>>
>> URK!
>> Wrongo!
>> Its a quicktime stabilized clip.
>> I'm on some medication today and really really reading things
>> badly.
>>
>>
>> xponent
>> MyBadMeaCulpa Maru
>> rob
>
> Is that any worse than my initial inclination to say "I hope you get
> over your medication soon"?  :)
>
Gak! Me too!
It has been a bad last two days.
First thing at work yesterday morning I had to run up 2 flights of
stairs on a jobsite (work is slow at the hospital so I am helping to
build TSU's new science building) and by the time I got to our lockbox
I couldn't breathe. I could take a deep breath, but it felt like I
wasn't getting any oxygen *in*. I felt too weak to work.
There was no reason I could think of to be feeling undue anxiety so
I'm thinking seriously that I was having a heart attack. After an hour
and a half of not getting better I left work and went home. I tried to
get a doctors appointment but couldn't get one til 4.
Breathing got a little easier at home and became tolerable enough to
take a nap after a couple of hours.
When I finally saw the doctor he gives me a prescription for
amoxicillin and hydoxyzine, an antibiotic for a lower respiratory
infection and an antihistimine to also take care of a rash on my arms.
I'm going to try to get back to work tomorrow but I'm still feeling
crappy right now.


Hope you feel better soon.
Unfortunately, I have that problem all too 
often, to the point where a doctor called it 
"chronic bronchitis."  Given that that is often 
the diagnosis given to long-time smokers who 
have developed a chronic cough as a result of 
the damage to their lungs, and that was 
certainly not the cause of mine, I have to say 
that I got stuck with the illness without 
having any of the fun getting it . . .
(At Thanksgiving of 1981, I had some sort of 
flu-like illness which a doctor diagnosed as 
"bronchitis" and prescribed antibiotics which 
did relieve the congestion and cough.  However, 
the rest of the symptoms never got any better, 
and whenever I "overdo"—IOW, try to do even 
half as much as normal—the cough and congestion 
all come back.  So I now get to enjoy having 
"chronic fatigue syndrome" combined with "chronic bronchitis.")


The Crud Maru


Today someone brought up




... so to speak ...



(on another mailing list I'm on) symptoms of 
"silent reflux".  They include hoarseness and chronic cough.


One of the reasons it came up was that someone 
just had her congestion and other unpleasant 
symptoms diagnosed as being due to reflux and 
asthma, neither of which she thought she 
had.  (So she's going to be treating those, and 
hoping she starts feeling a lot better.)




I'm pretty sure what I have is what the above 
diagnosis says.  OTOH, it would be nice to have something treatable . . .




--Ronn!  :)

"Since I was a small boy, two states have been 
added to our country and two words have been 
added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER 
GOD.  Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that 
is a prayer and that would be eliminated from schools too?"

   -- Red Skelton

(Someone asked me to change my .sig quote back, so I did.)




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Re: URLx

[Julia Thompson]

Robert G. Seeberger wrote:

Try this link to see if it works.


http://urlx.org/amazon.com/0375



1)  There are only FIVE COPIES IN STOCK!  ORDER NOW!

2)  Needs more reviews.  Anyone?

Julia
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Re: "Let's Roll"

[Julia Thompson]

Ronn!Blankenship wrote:

At 06:21 PM Wednesday 1/4/2006, Robert Seeberger wrote:


- Original Message -
From: "Julia Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: "Let's Roll"


> Robert Seeberger wrote:
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 1:23 PM
>> Subject: Re: "Let's Roll"
>>
>>
>>
>>>Just stumbled on this this morning. It is an "Unreal" (the game)
>>>stabilized version of the Zapruder film.
>>>
>>
>> URK!
>> Wrongo!
>> Its a quicktime stabilized clip.
>> I'm on some medication today and really really reading things
>> badly.
>>
>>
>> xponent
>> MyBadMeaCulpa Maru
>> rob
>
> Is that any worse than my initial inclination to say "I hope you get
> over your medication soon"?  :)
>
Gak! Me too!
It has been a bad last two days.
First thing at work yesterday morning I had to run up 2 flights of
stairs on a jobsite (work is slow at the hospital so I am helping to
build TSU's new science building) and by the time I got to our lockbox
I couldn't breathe. I could take a deep breath, but it felt like I
wasn't getting any oxygen *in*. I felt too weak to work.
There was no reason I could think of to be feeling undue anxiety so
I'm thinking seriously that I was having a heart attack. After an hour
and a half of not getting better I left work and went home. I tried to
get a doctors appointment but couldn't get one til 4.
Breathing got a little easier at home and became tolerable enough to
take a nap after a couple of hours.
When I finally saw the doctor he gives me a prescription for
amoxicillin and hydoxyzine, an antibiotic for a lower respiratory
infection and an antihistimine to also take care of a rash on my arms.
I'm going to try to get back to work tomorrow but I'm still feeling
crappy right now.




Hope you feel better soon.

Unfortunately, I have that problem all too often, to the point where a 
doctor called it "chronic bronchitis."  Given that that is often the 
diagnosis given to long-time smokers who have developed a chronic cough 
as a result of the damage to their lungs, and that was certainly not the 
cause of mine, I have to say that I got stuck with the illness without 
having any of the fun getting it . . .


(At Thanksgiving of 1981, I had some sort of flu-like illness which a 
doctor diagnosed as "bronchitis" and prescribed antibiotics which did 
relieve the congestion and cough.  However, the rest of the symptoms 
never got any better, and whenever I "overdo"—IOW, try to do even half 
as much as normal—the cough and congestion all come back.  So I now get 
to enjoy having "chronic fatigue syndrome" combined with "chronic 
bronchitis.")



The Crud Maru


Today someone brought up (on another mailing list I'm on) symptoms of 
"silent reflux".  They include hoarseness and chronic cough.


One of the reasons it came up was that someone just had her congestion 
and other unpleasant symptoms diagnosed as being due to reflux and 
asthma, neither of which she thought she had.  (So she's going to be 
treating those, and hoping she starts feeling a lot better.)


Me, I just scheduled a physical for later this month, and I hope NOBODY 
from this household has to go to the doctor before then.


Julia
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Re: "Let's Roll"

[Julia Thompson]

Ronn!Blankenship wrote:

At 02:31 PM Wednesday 1/4/2006, Julia Thompson wrote:


Robert Seeberger wrote:

- Original Message - From: "Robert Seeberger" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Killer Bs Discussion" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: "Let's Roll"


Just stumbled on this this morning. It is an "Unreal" (the game) 
stabilized version of the Zapruder film.


URK!
Wrongo!
Its a quicktime stabilized clip.
I'm on some medication today and really really reading things badly.

xponent
MyBadMeaCulpa Maru
rob



Is that any worse than my initial inclination to say "I hope you get 
over your medication soon"?  :)




If a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down, does a spoonful of 
medicine make the sugar come up?



Non-Commutative Operations Maru


Not in my (admittedly limited) experience.

Unless it's syrup of ipecac, which should only be administered when you 
know someone has to be made to throw up.  (We haven't had that happen. 
Neither have we had to administer the activated charcoal.  Forcing 
hydrogen peroxide into a dog, on the other hand, has been done enough 
times that the older baster has been permanently relocated to be with 
the "dog stuff".)


Julia
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URLx

[Robert G. Seeberger]

Try this link to see if it works.


http://urlx.org/amazon.com/0375


This is from http://urlx.org/ , a new service that addresses a problem 
with TinyURL and the like. With the other services people can send you 
porn and you wouldn't have a clue until you clicked the link.
URLx adds the domain to the shortlink in order to give you an idea as 
to what you are going to find.

A handy idea!


xponent
A Clue! Maru
rob

Here's e-mail
it never fails
it makes me want to wag my tail
when it comes
I want to wail 
Eeee-Maiilll!! 


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Re: "Let's Roll"

[Ronn!Blankenship]

At 06:21 PM Wednesday 1/4/2006, Robert Seeberger wrote:


- Original Message -
From: "Julia Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: "Let's Roll"


> Robert Seeberger wrote:
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 1:23 PM
>> Subject: Re: "Let's Roll"
>>
>>
>>
>>>Just stumbled on this this morning. It is an "Unreal" (the game)
>>>stabilized version of the Zapruder film.
>>>
>>
>> URK!
>> Wrongo!
>> Its a quicktime stabilized clip.
>> I'm on some medication today and really really reading things
>> badly.
>>
>>
>> xponent
>> MyBadMeaCulpa Maru
>> rob
>
> Is that any worse than my initial inclination to say "I hope you get
> over your medication soon"?  :)
>
Gak! Me too!
It has been a bad last two days.
First thing at work yesterday morning I had to run up 2 flights of
stairs on a jobsite (work is slow at the hospital so I am helping to
build TSU's new science building) and by the time I got to our lockbox
I couldn't breathe. I could take a deep breath, but it felt like I
wasn't getting any oxygen *in*. I felt too weak to work.
There was no reason I could think of to be feeling undue anxiety so
I'm thinking seriously that I was having a heart attack. After an hour
and a half of not getting better I left work and went home. I tried to
get a doctors appointment but couldn't get one til 4.
Breathing got a little easier at home and became tolerable enough to
take a nap after a couple of hours.
When I finally saw the doctor he gives me a prescription for
amoxicillin and hydoxyzine, an antibiotic for a lower respiratory
infection and an antihistimine to also take care of a rash on my arms.
I'm going to try to get back to work tomorrow but I'm still feeling
crappy right now.



Hope you feel better soon.

Unfortunately, I have that problem all too often, 
to the point where a doctor called it "chronic 
bronchitis."  Given that that is often the 
diagnosis given to long-time smokers who have 
developed a chronic cough as a result of the 
damage to their lungs, and that was certainly not 
the cause of mine, I have to say that I got stuck 
with the illness without having any of the fun getting it . . .


(At Thanksgiving of 1981, I had some sort of 
flu-like illness which a doctor diagnosed as 
"bronchitis" and prescribed antibiotics which did 
relieve the congestion and cough.  However, the 
rest of the symptoms never got any better, and 
whenever I "overdo"—IOW, try to do even half as 
much as normal—the cough and congestion all come 
back.  So I now get to enjoy having "chronic 
fatigue syndrome" combined with "chronic bronchitis.")



The Crud Maru


--Ronn!  :)

"Since I was a small boy, two states have been 
added to our country and two words have been 
added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER 
GOD.  Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that 
is a prayer and that would be eliminated from schools too?"

   -- Red Skelton

(Someone asked me to change my .sig quote back, so I did.)




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Re: "Let's Roll"

[Robert Seeberger]

- Original Message - 
From: "Julia Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: "Let's Roll"


> Robert Seeberger wrote:
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 1:23 PM
>> Subject: Re: "Let's Roll"
>>
>>
>>
>>>Just stumbled on this this morning. It is an "Unreal" (the game) 
>>>stabilized version of the Zapruder film.
>>>
>>
>> URK!
>> Wrongo!
>> Its a quicktime stabilized clip.
>> I'm on some medication today and really really reading things 
>> badly.
>>
>>
>> xponent
>> MyBadMeaCulpa Maru
>> rob
>
> Is that any worse than my initial inclination to say "I hope you get 
> over your medication soon"?  :)
>
Gak! Me too!
It has been a bad last two days.
First thing at work yesterday morning I had to run up 2 flights of 
stairs on a jobsite (work is slow at the hospital so I am helping to 
build TSU's new science building) and by the time I got to our lockbox 
I couldn't breathe. I could take a deep breath, but it felt like I 
wasn't getting any oxygen *in*. I felt too weak to work.
There was no reason I could think of to be feeling undue anxiety so 
I'm thinking seriously that I was having a heart attack. After an hour 
and a half of not getting better I left work and went home. I tried to 
get a doctors appointment but couldn't get one til 4.
Breathing got a little easier at home and became tolerable enough to 
take a nap after a couple of hours.
When I finally saw the doctor he gives me a prescription for 
amoxicillin and hydoxyzine, an antibiotic for a lower respiratory 
infection and an antihistimine to also take care of a rash on my arms.
I'm going to try to get back to work tomorrow but I'm still feeling 
crappy right now.


xponent
On Drugs Maru
rob 


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Of prime importance . . .

[Ronn!Blankenship]

Mersenne 
30,402,457:  <>




--Ronn!  :)

"Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country 
and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER 
GOD.  Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that 
would be eliminated from schools too?"

   -- Red Skelton

(Someone asked me to change my .sig quote back, so I did.)




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Gravitas (was: "Let's Roll")

[Deborah Harrell]

> Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > Deborah Harrell wrote:
 
> >When I lived in one of many "DMZ"s in Dallas, I
> >learned the difference between
> 'happy-it's-the-weekend
> >gunfire' vs. drug-deal-gone-bad gunfire . 

 
> The former, however, can still hurt you if you
> happen to be standing 
> or sleeping where it comes down.  Locally, several
> innocent people 
> started the New Year with new holes in the roof of
> their houses or cars...

Here, too.  Not sure if the newsbrief on a
New-Year's-gunfire death was local or national.

Debbi
My Angels And Demons At War Maru



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dsl.yahoo.com 

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Re: Iran and the US

[Deborah Harrell]

> "Robert J. Chassell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



> Moreover, the US war in Iraq has meant that so far
> Iran is the primary winner...
> 
> ...What do you think is the likelihood that the US
(or
> its ally, Israel)
> will attack Iran before the US November 2006
elections?

Given the increasing (and ridiculous, but quite scary)
rhetoric from Iran's president, hostilities of some
sort are grimly possible before the 2008 election;
before Nov '06 seems far less likely to me, unless an
"incident" is manufactured. One-in-five by '08 (I'm
feeling pessimistic, having just finished O'Dowd's
_Bushworld_ -- I don't care for her much, but the
trail of deliberate warmongering traced is appallingly
convincing.).
 
> If you were moving more than a billion US dollars
> each day
> internationally, where would you put that money?

Wish I had that dilemma to parse!

Debbi
We Just Live And Die Here Maru   }:/



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Re: "Let's Roll"

[Ronn!Blankenship]

At 02:48 PM Wednesday 1/4/2006, Deborah Harrell wrote:


When I lived in one of many "DMZ"s in Dallas, I
learned the difference between 'happy-it's-the-weekend
gunfire' vs. drug-deal-gone-bad gunfire.  It was the
rapidity of fire marking the latter, and sometimes
higher caliber weapons.




The former, however, can still hurt you if you happen to be standing 
or sleeping where it comes down.  Locally, several innocent people 
started the New Year with new holes in the roof of their houses or 
cars.  Last year (I believe it was), one woman was standing up 
singing in church when a stray round from so-called "celebratory 
gunfire" punched a hole through the window of the church and then her 
(she did survive) . . .



Gravity For Dummies Maru


--Ronn!  :)

"Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country 
and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER 
GOD.  Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that 
would be eliminated from schools too?"

   -- Red Skelton

(Someone asked me to change my .sig quote back, so I did.)




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Re: "Let's Roll"

[Ronn!Blankenship]

At 02:31 PM Wednesday 1/4/2006, Julia Thompson wrote:

Robert Seeberger wrote:
- Original Message - From: "Robert Seeberger" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Killer Bs Discussion" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: "Let's Roll"


Just stumbled on this this morning. It is an "Unreal" (the game) 
stabilized version of the Zapruder film.

URK!
Wrongo!
Its a quicktime stabilized clip.
I'm on some medication today and really really reading things badly.

xponent
MyBadMeaCulpa Maru
rob


Is that any worse than my initial inclination to say "I hope you get 
over your medication soon"?  :)



If a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down, does a spoonful of 
medicine make the sugar come up?



Non-Commutative Operations Maru


--Ronn!  :)

"Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country 
and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER 
GOD.  Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that 
would be eliminated from schools too?"

   -- Red Skelton

(Someone asked me to change my .sig quote back, so I did.)




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Re: Why can't I own a Canadian?

[Ronn!Blankenship]

Because if Bob and Doug Mackenzie are indeed typical Canadians, you 
can rent them for the price of a beer, eh . . .



--Ronn!  :)

"Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country 
and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER 
GOD.  Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that 
would be eliminated from schools too?"

   -- Red Skelton

(Someone asked me to change my .sig quote back, so I did.)




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Re: Let's Roll"

[Ronn!Blankenship]

At 09:13 AM Wednesday 1/4/2006, Robert J. Chassell wrote:

Dave Land <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote

I know that other 9/11 analyses have been posted to this list, but
I came across a one-hour documentary that concludes that "it is
more likely than not that the government was actually behind the
attacks" ...

Yes, that is worth checking.

As I say below ` ... the simplest hypothesis is that a Moslem group
did the job ...'

The reason it is worth checking was stated by a friend of mine:

The isolation of the cells that undertook the hijacking and
attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon meant that the
people in those groups could have been directed by someone who is
not Moslem.  The hijackers could have been fooled as to who their
sponsors were.



And of course that means we know who the sponsors must have been 
without having to read any more.



--Ronn!  :)

"Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country 
and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER 
GOD.  Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that 
would be eliminated from schools too?"

   -- Red Skelton

(Someone asked me to change my .sig quote back, so I did.)




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Re: "Let's Roll"

[Dave Land]

On Jan 4, 2006, at 11:44 AM, Dan Minette wrote:


From: "Dave Land" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Something happened on 9/11 other than the official version, and the
price has been the real security of the USA.


Before I respond, I'd like to ask a question of you and Nick.  Are you
arguing.

1) Commercial planes were not really hijacked on 9-11
2) Commercial planes did not hit the twin towers
3) Commercial planes did not hit the Pentagon.
4) AQ did not hijack the planes?
5) People high in the US government knew about the hijackings  
beforehand?

6) Bombs were planted in the WTC and went off after the planes hit?


To be quite accurate (or, if you prefer, pedantic), *I* am
not arguing any of the above, Dylan Avery is. I am, however,
open to explanations of the events of 9/11 other than the
official story, which has more holes in it than swiss cheese.

However, since you asked, the answer to all six questions is,
quite possibly.

Of course, I don't know what actually happened in New York,
Washington and Pennsylvania on 9/11, but as I said in my
original post, I am increasingly convinced that it is not
according to the version presented by the administration.

I realize that all of the conspiracy theories are full of
holes, but that makes them no different than the government
version.

I look forward to your response to Mr. Avery's assertions.

Dave

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Re: Have a Nice Winter Break...

[Deborah Harrell]

> Maru Dubshinki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 12/24/05, Deborah Harrell wrote:

> > Political correctness past moderation!
> >
> > So, hope your Solstice was Soulful, and Merry
> > Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Kool Kwanzaa, and
> > Delightful Diwali (although that's a bit late, I
> > think!).
 

> What? No "Nice Newtonmas?  Or what about
> our Flying Spaghetti Monsterism brethren?
> And as always, those poor Discordian people
> are totally neglected. I expected better of you.





I hope that corrects my bad.   ;)

Debbi
Adding A Fervent Raspberry For The Delphic Holiday Of
<>  Maru ;}



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Re: "Let's Roll"

[Deborah Harrell]

> Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Horn, John wrote:


> > So, some firefighters said over the radio that
> something sounded
> > like a bomb.  So what?  That's probably what it
> did sound like.
> > That doesn't make it a bomb.
 
> And then there's the question, is it a firecracker
> or a gun?  If you 
> hear enough of both, you learn to tell the
> difference in sound.  Or so 
> I've been told by someone who lived on a really bad
> street in DC for a year.

When I lived in one of many "DMZ"s in Dallas, I
learned the difference between 'happy-it's-the-weekend
gunfire' vs. drug-deal-gone-bad gunfire.  It was the
rapidity of fire marking the latter, and sometimes
higher caliber weapons.

Debbi
Roll The Bones Maru



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Iran and the US

[Robert J. Chassell]

Because of the Russian actions with respect to Ukraine natural gas
supplies, the major countries of western Europe may well decide that a
natural gas pipeline through Iran makes sense to them as providing an
alternative source.

Moreover, the US war in Iraq has meant that so far Iran is the primary
winner.

But President Bush may decide to convert Iran to a non-oil selling
country.  This action would serve him and his supporters in several
ways:

  * it would cause economic difficulties, perhaps a collapse, in
western Europe and China, both perceived by the Bush
Administration as enemies.

  * it would increase the value of coal, coal shales, and tar sands in
North America and of oil in Saudi Arabia.  Many of these are owned
or controlled by Bush's supporters.

  * previous attacks by the US led to short term gains by President
Bush; perhaps such an attack again will lead to 2% or so more
votes for Bush supporters next November.  Since those opposed will
vote against anyhow, such an attack might be perceived (or
misperceived) in terms considered important by Bush supporters as
costing little domestically.

  * it would cause a recession in the US as the US became less able to
borrow from abroad, thus solving a major long term financial
problem.  Since many of those who would lose their jobs in such a
recession did not vote for Bush or his supporters, such a
recession might be perceived (or misperceived) as costing little
politically.

It is true that few in the current administration appear to be
much concerned about the long term.  However, with present value
discounting, a sufficiently big long term problem can become a
short term problem.  US borrowing is sufficiently big.

Interestingly, so far no one who moves billions of US dollars each
day has stated much concern, at least not in public.  Such people
still move precautionary savings towards the US.  But they will
act on worries at some point.

Note that unless Europe, China, or Japan act radically, even with
a global economic setback, the US will continue to be a safer, but
not safe, destination for large sums of money.  

(The radical actions I am thinking of consist of spending this
year at least the equivalent of ten billion US dollars on nuclear
and other alternative sources of energy or, preferably, spending
twenty times as much.)

The Iranian government has threatened to stop selling oil if it is
attacked -- that is why I spoke of converting Iran `to a non-oil
selling country'.  That threat is their deterrent.  (Since the Iranian
government has also said that foreign oil sales will drop to nothing
in 15 or 20 years, their interest in gaining an atomic or other such
deterrent makes sense to them, although such proliferation would be
dangerous to the rest of us.)

But will the threat of stopping oil sales succeed against the current
US administration?  I think it does against western Europe and China.

What do you think is the likelihood that the US (or its ally, Israel)
will attack Iran before the US November 2006 elections?

What is the likelihood that such an attack would cause serious
economic difficulties throughout the world, as well as hurting people
directly?  Who is hurt more?

If you were moving more than a billion US dollars each day
internationally, where would you put that money?

-- 
Robert J. Chassell 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
http://www.rattlesnake.com  http://www.teak.cc
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Re: Let's Roll"

[Robert J. Chassell]

Dave Land <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote

I know that other 9/11 analyses have been posted to this list, but
I came across a one-hour documentary that concludes that "it is
more likely than not that the government was actually behind the
attacks" ...

Yes, that is worth checking.

As I say below ` ... the simplest hypothesis is that a Moslem group
did the job ...'

The reason it is worth checking was stated by a friend of mine:

The isolation of the cells that undertook the hijacking and
attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon meant that the
people in those groups could have been directed by someone who is
not Moslem.  The hijackers could have been fooled as to who their
sponsors were.

(The friend is a former paratrooper who tried to enter the burning
Trade Center buildings because he had training in helping burn
victims.  He was prevented by a cop -- which saved his life.)

Before Al Qaeda claimed responsibility, back on 23 September 2001,
less than two weeks after the attacks, as a result of my friend's
comments, I wrote to myself

To find out who sponsored the attacks, one can use Lenin's method and
ask `who benefits?' from these attacks.

  * Clearly, the fundamentalist, anti-US Moslems do.  This fits
with the usual theory, that Bin Laden, or someone else of that
ilk, is behind the attacks.

  * US `patriot' groups -- `militias'.

These groups are against the US military, for being on the
side of the UN, against financiers, especially Jewish
financiers working in the World Trade Center, and Arabs.

This attack was against all of them.

Against this possibility is the argument that the effort
required too much money and sophistication for the US groups
to handle; and it will likely lead to fewer US civil
liberties.

  * US military or intelligence

The attacks will lead to a sharp increase in funding and power
for the CIA or other such groups.

However, are there any organizations in the US government who
have successfully infiltrated those group who could have done
the job?  And would it have been possible for a large enough
number of people in a conspiracy inside the US government to
have carried off the attack without someone telling others of
the plan?

I doubt it.

  * Israel

It is widely believed that the Mossad has the capability
necessary to sponsor the attack.  It is thought that they have
infiltrated various terrorist groups.

The purpose of the attack would be to change US opinion so
that the Israeli government would gain more support against
Palistinians and would continue to receive support if the
Israeli military were to undertake a major operation to occupy
all of `Greater Israel', perhaps even driving Palistinians out
of those territories.

The makings of the plan could have been set in motion years
ago.

The argument against this possibility is that the success of
the operation may be to encourage more attacks against the US,
and that the US might retreat into isolation.  Or if the US
does not retreat, the US might reduce support for Israel and
transfer its support to Arab countries helping the US; as a
reward for helping the US, the Arab countries might ask the US
to push Israel towards more of an accomodation with the
Palistinians.

  * Russia

Many think the bombs in Moscow that killed many people and
enabled the Russian government to rekindle its attacks against
Chechnya were `black' operations.  This would be similar.  The
purpose would be to gain use help in the war against Chechnya
and against Islamic insurgents in the central Asian countries.

The argument against this possibility is that the US might not
only overthrow the Taliban in Afghanistan but start building
roads and pipelines to carry oil and gas out of central Asia
to ports in Pakistan.  The project would provide jobs to
Afghanis and Pakistanis so they are less likely to go to
Taliban schools.  Also, it would provide easier access for
ground troops not only to Afghanistan but to the central Asian
countries.

Also, the US will increase its military spending and power,
which diminishes that of Russia.

Now, none of these items discuss the Bush Administration directly.
But to succeed, the Bush Administration would have had to conspire.  I
continue to doubt they would have been able to carry `off the attack
without someone telling others of the plan'.

On 30 October 2001, I added China and Iran to the equation, and
introduced a different argument for Russia:

Another thought: if China, Iran, and Russia can prevent the US
from bu

Re: "Let's Roll"

[Julia Thompson]

Robert Seeberger wrote:
- Original Message - 
From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Killer Bs Discussion" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: "Let's Roll"



Just stumbled on this this morning. It is an "Unreal" (the game) 
stabilized version of the Zapruder film.




URK!
Wrongo!
Its a quicktime stabilized clip.
I'm on some medication today and really really reading things badly.


xponent
MyBadMeaCulpa Maru
rob 


Is that any worse than my initial inclination to say "I hope you get 
over your medication soon"?  :)


Julia
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Re: "Let's Roll"

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "Dave Land" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" 
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: "Let's Roll"


>
> Something happened on 9/11 other than the official version, and the
> price has been the real security of the USA.

Before I respond, I'd like to ask a question of you and Nick.  Are you
arguing.

1) Commercial planes were not really hijacked on 9-11
2) Commercial planes did not hit the twin towers
3) Commercial planes did not hit the Pentagon.
4) AQ did not hijack the planes?
5) People high in the US government knew about the hijackings beforehand?
6) Bombs were planted in the WTC and went off after the planes hit?

I'm rather confused as to what is being argued.  I'm not trying to push
anyone into a corner, I'm just trying to see what the proposed scenario is.

Dan M.

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Re: Wal-Mart efficiency (was Re: My annual Xmas tirade...)

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "The Fool" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: Wal-Mart efficiency (was Re: My annual Xmas tirade...)



> Do you exclude food from your calculations? (Most food isn't grown in
> Red China)

No, I didn't realize that certain things "didn't count" as products for
you.  But, I'll be happy to look at non-food items as a catagory.  The
superpermarket sales (which clearly includes non-food items, but what the
heck) is about $50 billion.  That leaves almost 250 billion in non-food
sales.

>Do you also exclude srevices wal-mart has like their automotive service
dept?

Are you seriously arguing that the $18.95 lube special is a significant
portion of the Wal-Mart income?  I'd guess that this would be balaced out
by the non-food items sold in the supermarket, but let me be very very
generous and assume that these sales amount to about $20 billion/year.
That still leaves about $220 billion/year.  15 billion is about 7% of that.
Well under 10%.

Unless you can find a way to make about 90% of Wal-Mart's sales "not count"
for one reason or another, your statement is false.  I've been very
generous in granting you the right to exclude things, and still end up with
less than 10% from China.

Dan M.


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Re: Wal-Mart efficiency

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "Andrew Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 8:39 AM
Subject: RE: Wal-Mart efficiency (was Re: My annual Xmas tirade...)





> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Stores are ecconomic entities.  Forcing people to buy from less
efficent
> stores is an ecconomic decision.  What other factors, that are not
tied to
> jobs, prices, income, etc. are you thinking of?  I know when I
have/had
> less money, I was less interested in spending money on aestetics,
taste,
> etc. than when I have/had more money.  How can we be sure that keeping
> discount stores out of an area isn't simply a matter of forcing one's
own
> value system on others?
>

>Sure, insuring equal access to opportunity is a crucial part of
>capitalism/free market etc, it's a valid issue you raise, but that's
>part of the problem. By allowing discount stores into an area are we
>forcing on them the markets version of a value system?

I'll agree that there are some limits to letting the market determine
everything.  There is the possibility of the trajedy of the commons.  Thus,
I look at other data sets.

For example, the customers at the Wal-Marts around here are far more
racially diversified than the local small store shoppersas well as
lower income. Local small clothing stores are upscale.  The shopping
experience at these upscale stores is better, but the prices are much much
higher. They have to bea small store is much much less efficient, so
more has to be made on each item sold.

>From this, I see that, even when there is a choice, lower income people
choose WalMart, while upper income people are more likely to shop in small
stores.  Thus, I would argue that banning stores that lower income people
like to shop at for non-ecconomic reasons is an imposition of values, while
allowing poorer people to make their own tradeoffs in choosing a store is
not.

> Finally, are you arguing that improved productivity is not inherently
> valuable?
>

>I think the issue is more about the definition of productivity.

Production per hour work...measued in inflation adjusted dollars.

>One can draw lots of graphs and diagrams about the apparent short term
economic
>benefits, but is that really productivity, in the broader sense. Ok,
>things get delivered cheaper, quicker etc, but is that the be all and
>end all?

It's not the be all, end all, but it is productivity.  The foundation of
our civilization is the increase in productivity over the last 300 years.
For example, let's look at the increase in productivity in Europe.  While
the average person in 1500 CE was probably a bit better off than the
average person in 1500 BCE, it was not by much.  But, the average person
today is far better off than the average person 100 years ago.  The
increased wealth generated by the increase in productivity allowed for many
improvements.

Indeed, if you look at things that are on people's to do lists for the next
100 years, they will cost a lot of money.  Slowing global warming will be
very expensive.  Taking care of the elderly will be expensive.  Insuring
medical care for all will be expensive  (the average total insurance cost
for a comprehensive but not 100% plan for a family is about $1300/month
now).

If we improve productivity enough, we can do most of these.  If it doesn't
improve, we will have to make very difficult choicesand leave important
things undone.

>There is an argument that our current business systems are essentially
>unsustainable in the longer term, in a whole lot of ways.

I've heard that, but I've never understood how lowering efficiency will
help anything.

>I am pretty much a pro-market thinker, free trade etc, but the way is set
up now
>does often not make much sense. It's a simple example, but I still can't
>quite grasp how it makes sense to pay farmers in one country not to grow
>a crop, and then import it from half way around the world.

I think that is wrong...but I'll tell you the perspective from which it
makes sense.  If one doesn't believe in the market, and considers keeping
small, inefficient farmers in business, that makes perfect sense.  This is
an anti-market government action, one that is harmful in my opinion.

>One aspect that does trouble me is that of competition. One of the basic
>precepts of free market economics is competition between suppliers. If
>you don't like one places good or services or prices, you go elsewhere.
>Without that competition aspect the whole system will turn into economic
>tyranny.

OK, I support anti-monopoly laws.
>Many of these companies (eg Walmart) are growing so huge and powerful
>that they are endangering that.

But, Wal-Mart, as big as it is, is not close to a monopoly. It has less
than 9% of the retail market.  It has forced it's competitors to be more
efficient, but it still has a lot of competition in the market.

>Here in Australia we have basical

Re: "Let's Roll"

[Robert Seeberger]

- Original Message - 
From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: "Let's Roll"


> Just stumbled on this this morning. It is an "Unreal" (the game) 
> stabilized version of the Zapruder film.
>
URK!
Wrongo!
Its a quicktime stabilized clip.
I'm on some medication today and really really reading things badly.


xponent
MyBadMeaCulpa Maru
rob 


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Re: "Let's Roll"

[Robert Seeberger]

- Original Message - 
From: "Dave Land" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" 
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 2:11 AM
Subject: "Let's Roll"


> I can't help but think that I'm turning into a relative in my family 
> who has always been a JFK-assassination conspiracy freak as I become 
> more and more interested in uncovering the truth of 9/11.
>

Just stumbled on this this morning. It is an "Unreal" (the game) 
stabilized version of the Zapruder film.

WARNING
VERY GRAPHIC!!!
GORY!

http://blogfiles.wfmu.org/KF/0512/zapruder_stable.mov

I've never seen this footage at this level of detail.
It makes me sad that an American President would be subject to this 
kind of violence. And before seeing this clip I was never impressed 
with the actual violence of the act.
I suppose we have been protected from knowing.


xponent
Sad Memories Maru
rob 


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RE: Why can't I own a Canadian?

[Jim Sharkey]

Robert G. Seeberger wrote:
>http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html
>Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice 
>to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as 
>an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according 
>to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. 



I want to kiss that guy.  With tongue.  Is *that* an abomination?  I 
mean, I'm not laying with him as I would a woman, so I'm forced to 
wonder.  :)

And does checking out how the other guy is fixed at the urinal during 
a Giant's game count?  'Cause if it does, there's a good 70,000 New 
Jerseyans in need of putting down.

Of course, being from New Jersey, I can tell you that from my point
of view, the number of New Jerseyans in need of putting down far 
exceeds 70,000, but for many varied and different reasons beyond 
Leviticus 18:22.  :-)

Jim
Abomination unto Nuggan Maru

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Weekly Chat Reminder

[William T Goodall]

As Steve said,

"The Brin-L weekly chat has been a list tradition for over six
years. Way back on 27 May, 1998, Marco Maisenhelder first set
up a chatroom for the list, and on the next day, he established
a weekly chat time. We've been through several servers, chat
technologies, and even casts of regulars over the years, but
the chat goes on... and we want more recruits!

Whether you're an active poster or a lurker, whether you've
been a member of the list from the beginning or just joined
today, we would really like for you to join us. We have less
politics, more Uplift talk, and more light-hearted discussion.
We're non-fattening and 100% environmentally friendly...
-(_() Though sometimes marshmallows do get thrown.

The Weekly Brin-L chat is scheduled for Wednesday 3 PM
Eastern/2 PM Central time in the US, or 7 PM Greenwich time.
There's usually somebody there to talk to for at least eight
hours after the start time.

If you want to attend, it's really easy now. All you have to
do is send your web browser to:

  http://wtgab.demon.co.uk/~brinl/mud/

..And you can connect directly from William's new web
interface!

My instruction page tells you how to log on, and how to talk
when you get in:

  http://www.brin-l.org/brinmud.html

It also gives a list of commands to use when you're in there.
In addition, it tells you how to connect through a MUD client,
which is more complicated to set up initially, but easier and
more reliable than the web interface once you do get it set up."

-- 
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/

"This message was sent automatically using cron. But even if WTG
 is away on holiday, at least it shows the server is still up."
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Why can't I own a Canadian?

[Robert G. Seeberger]

http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html

October 2002
Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to 
people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an 
observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to 
Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The 
following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a east coast 
resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as 
informative:

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I 
have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that 
knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend 
the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that 
Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. 
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other 
specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a 
pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. 
They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 
21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for 
her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her 
period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how 
do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and 
female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend 
of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can 
you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 
clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to 
kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an 
abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than 
homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a 
defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does 
my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair 
around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 
19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me 
unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different 
crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of 
two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends 
to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all 
the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - 
Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family 
affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 
20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident 
you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is 
eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted fan,
Jim



xponent

A Retort To The Fundies Maru

rob


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Re: "Let's Roll"

[Max Battcher]

Doug Pensinger wrote:
The one possible conspiracy that would require few people to commit and 
would thus be more easily contained; willful negligence.


I believe the FBI were at the PA crash site quicker than any response to 
the Radar Operators' queries about military action against the rogue 
flights.  The 9/11 Commission Timeline shows so many points of potential 
criminal negligence...


--
--Max Battcher--
http://www.worldmaker.net/
"History bleeds for tomorrow / for us to realize and never more follow 
blind" --Machinae Supremacy, Deus Ex Machinae, Title Track

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WMF Exploit

[The Fool]

Nasty:

Start->Run-> regsvr32 /u shimgvw.dll

<>
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Fruit flies like a banana daiquiri

[Ronn!Blankenship]

Study of 'hangover gene' in fruit flies may hold key to humans' 
capacity to develop tolerance for alcohol


<>


--Ronn!  :)

"Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country 
and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER 
GOD.  Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that 
would be eliminated from schools too?"

   -- Red Skelton

(Someone asked me to change my .sig quote back, so I did.)




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