Re: Sore losers
On 8/27/2008 12:10:37 AM, Warren Ockrassa ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Aug 26, 2008, at 9:49 PM, Rceeberger wrote: You have a weird perspective. It isn't that America is moving down, it is that so many are moving up into our realm. Beg to differ. In the last three or so decades we've seen a rise in disparagement of education,* particularly in the sciences, a loss of critical thinking ability in the general population, and a trend toward becoming a service-based economy. This doesn't strike me as evidence that the US is holding its own; the sense to me is one of an empire in decline. * When intellectuals are called elitists, for instance, I disbelieve that things bode well. While I would agree that intellectualism is and has been the subject of much trash talking, our standard of living has risen during my lifetime modestly while it has risen dramatically in much of the developing world (Frex China). It seems to me that a narrow focus on ones hobby horses and axes is not conducive to a critical appraisal. Life here has not begun to suck while no longer sucking in other parts of the world. xponent Your Apple Is Not My Orange Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Sore losers
William T Goodall wrote: So why are the Americans counting total medals instead of golds for the olympics? And why the innuendo about Usain Bolt as long as he's clean? And the manufactured fuss about miming during the opening ceremony when everybody does it during these kind of events (the Australians admitted they did it at Sydney). And the 'not real sports' jibes about table tennis, rhythmic gymnastics and others? Beach Volleyball Rules Maru You should see what's happening here. We failed miserably where we were expected to win gold medals: soccer (both genders), beach volleyball (both genders) and volleyball (male). Of these, only the female volleyball team got a gold medal. Let's blame Beijing's polluted air! Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Sore losers
Jon Louis Mann wrote: I bow down to the Chinese volleyball girls, Err... They were blasted 3 x 0 by the Brazilian volleyball girls :-P Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Sore losers
On 27/08/2008, at 12:27 PM, Jon Louis Mann wrote: Because if you assign 3 points for gold, 2 for silver and 1 point for bronze, then the crybaby yanks lost to china, and that is unacceptable to the American chauvinist, patriotic, jingoist, dogmatic, nationalistic media. Americans can not accept that they are on their way down, and no longer first in everything. They whine because they can't prove the Chinese gymnists lied about their age. Who cares what age they are; that is an arbitrary rule that should be eliminated. No, absolutely not. First - whether or not it's arbitrary, it's a rule. If they were underage, they were underage. One might say that it's arbitrary that 2 200m runners were disqualified for running out of the lane in the final. Yes, it's arbitrary, but it's a rule. All the competitions have their rules set in advance. Arbitrary or otherwise, entering the competition binds one by the rules, and breaking them leads to disqualification. Second, there's good evidence to show that the sort of intensive training in gymnastics that'll make a lass competitive will cause serious joint problems later on in life at 13-14 and is significantly less likely to at 16 when the long bones have done their growing and are hardening. That's the reason for the rule, and it's a good one. There are age limits in many sports to compete at the highest level, and there's nothing wrong with that. I bow down to the Chinese volleyball girls, and all the other champions that dominated this Olympics. If it wasn't for Phelps (aided by American society's peculiar syndrome of ADHD) America would have done even more poorly. Yep. A very good Olympics. Not as tarnished by drugs as I thought so pleased. However, much more tarnished by the win-at-all-costs attitude of many nations (probably more the media than anything, but it was still there.). Charlie. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Sore losers
On 27/08/2008, at 3:26 PM, Doug Pensinger wrote: Jon wrote: They whine because they can't prove the Chinese gymnists lied about their age. Who cares what age they are; that is an arbitrary rule that should be eliminated. I could be wrong, but doesn't the rule have something to do with the adverse effect of the extreme amount of stress on a young, developing body? If the rule was arbitrary, why don't they have it for other sports? They do. Divers, 14. Fencers, 17. And so on. Charlie. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Sore losers
- Original Message - From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Brin-L brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:36 PM Subject: Sore losers So why are the Americans counting total medals instead of golds for the olympics? Before the games started there were some arguments about predicted medal counts, with most experts predicting pretty much exactly what happened and a few others predicting Americans winning more gold than China. What you are seeing is probably related to the majority razzing the dissenters (for being too nationalistic as I am hearing it). And why the innuendo about Usain Bolt as long as he's clean? Heh.the last few Olympics have been marred by drug scandals. IIRC Johnson was stripped of medals (and records) and there was a good deal of discussion about Carl Lewis and whether he was clean. What I am hearing is a great deal of praise and awe of Bolt who was just plain amazing in the 100 and 200. The drug situation is constant news over here in a variety of sports..even professional (fake) wrestling. (I refer you to the stories about Chris Benoit) It is pretty much an obsession over here. And the manufactured fuss about miming during the opening ceremony when everybody does it during these kind of events (the Australians admitted they did it at Sydney). In general, I think people recognize that the Beijing opening ceremonies were a feat that is not likely to be repeated anytime soon. Too big, too lavish, too over the top for anyone else to invest so much again. But the purported message the Chinese wished to send and their actual implimentation are at odds. The message was of unity between the diverse ethnic groups of China, but all those ethnic groups were portrayed by Hans, and given the American experience with racism and prejudice, it smacks of rank hypocrisy. (We claim to be against such things) And the 'not real sports' jibes about table tennis, rhythmic gymnastics and others? I suppose it just generally flows that some games will never be considered sports by some. If I were getting paid (or subsidized) to play Monopoly or Team Fortress, I would expect to hear similar arguments. Beach Volleyball Rules Maru Pretty intense innit? xponent Lack Of Protests Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Sore losers
On 8/27/2008 6:11:29 AM, Alberto Monteiro ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: William T Goodall wrote: So why are the Americans counting total medals instead of golds for the olympics? And why the innuendo about Usain Bolt as long as he's clean? And the manufactured fuss about miming during the opening ceremony when everybody does it during these kind of events (the Australians admitted they did it at Sydney). And the 'not real sports' jibes about table tennis, rhythmic gymnastics and others? Beach Volleyball Rules Maru You should see what's happening here. We failed miserably where we were expected to win gold medals: soccer (both genders), beach volleyball (both genders) and volleyball (male). Of these, only the female volleyball team got a gold medal. Let's blame Beijing's polluted air! All we saw on Network TV was the American teams playing whoever.. But the Brazilians were among the best I saw. You guys are ass kicking xponent Looked Like We Were Going To Lose To You In All Those Games At Some Points Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Sore losers
The age of the gymnasts is not an arbitrary rule that should be eliminated. My daughter was in gymnastics for a while. Training at Olympic level is very hard on growing bones and muscles, and it is easy for a youngster still growing to do permanent damage to his or her body. My other daughter was in age-group track and field and they were very careful about that, including having well-defined age levels and rules and standards for each. This has been a problem in the past in other school sports where the kids may have the power for the sport but have not yet reached their full growth. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Sore losers
xponent wrote: You should see what's happening here. We failed miserably where we were expected to win gold medals: soccer (both genders), beach volleyball (both genders) and volleyball (male). Of these, only the female volleyball team got a gold medal. Let's blame Beijing's polluted air! All we saw on Network TV was the American teams playing whoever.. But the Brazilians were among the best I saw. You guys are ass kicking xponent Looked Like We Were Going To Lose To You In All Those Games At Some Points Maru rob Yes, but, except for female volleyball, the USA won _all_ those games. Male volleyball was the hardest to lose, because the br team has won almost all the competitions in the past 8 years or so (and it's said that brazilians reinvented volleyball, adding intelligence to a game of strength and height). And female soccer keeps losing in the end, to different teams - like Kiln People, it's a persistent second place, to different winners. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Sore losers
On 8/27/2008 7:21:50 AM, Alberto Monteiro ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: xponent wrote: You should see what's happening here. We failed miserably where we were expected to win gold medals: soccer (both genders), beach volleyball (both genders) and volleyball (male). Of these, only the female volleyball team got a gold medal. Let's blame Beijing's polluted air! All we saw on Network TV was the American teams playing whoever.. But the Brazilians were among the best I saw. You guys are ass kicking xponent Looked Like We Were Going To Lose To You In All Those Games At Some Points Maru rob Yes, but, except for female volleyball, the USA won _all_ those games. Male volleyball was the hardest to lose, because the br team has won almost all the competitions in the past 8 years or so (and it's said that brazilians reinvented volleyball, adding intelligence to a game of strength and height). And female soccer keeps losing in the end, to different teams - like Kiln People, it's a persistent second place, to different winners. Alberto Monteiro Let me state it another way. There would have been no shame in losing to your teams. It is very similar to the situation with womens gymnastics, Our women were very good, just not good enough to beat the women from China, but the competition was at such a high level that it was fun to watch even when at a marked disadvantage. Same goes for many of the races in track and field. Bolt for example is sooo damn good, you have to smile even when you don't place or show. What I would like to see (just a dream mind you) is a more level playing field worldwide. There is such variation in the abilities of nations to train their athletes that much potential is wasted due to lack of better training. If everyone were able to train at similar levels, I suspect we would see even better competition and a broader dispersion of awards. (In that medal awards tend to concentrate towards the nations that can afford to train athletes.) xponent Sports Fans Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Sore losers
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 5:36 PM, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: So why are the Americans counting total medals instead of golds for the olympics? Who is doing this counting? I just searched Google News and what I see are headlines like US pleased with Olympic medal count. I really couldn't find any of the sort of complaining you allege. And why the innuendo about Usain Bolt as long as he's clean? I searched on that phrase and I got nothing. The only articles I find about this are some concerns that Jamaica only started a national drug-testing program after the start of the Olympics. Who's supposedly saying this? The news reports I'm reading say that the Jamaican team was tested repeatedly during the games. In short, cite please. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Sore losers
Jeez dude, did you not get a hug today? As an average 'Yank' I can say with all honesty most of us could give a ** about our medals. G Dub is an A-Hole. We get it. Didn't we join this forum because we're interested in science fiction? Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:27:15 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Sore losers To: brin-l@mccmedia.com So why are the Americans counting total medals instead of golds for the Olympics? And why the innuendo about Usain Bolt as long as he's clean? And the manufactured fuss about miming during the opening ceremony when everybody does it during these kind of events (the Australians admitted they did it at Sydney). And the 'not real sports' jibes about table tennis, rhythmic gymnastics and others? Beach Volleyball Rules Maru William T Goodall Because if you assign 3 points for gold, 2 for silver and 1 point for bronze, then the crybaby yanks lost to china, and that is unacceptable to th e American chauvinist, patriotic, jingoist, dogmatic, nationalistic media. Americans can not accept that they are on their way down, and no longer first in everything. They whine because they can't prove the Chinese gymnists lied about their age. Who cares what age they are; that is an arbitrary rule that should be eliminated. I bow down to the Chinese volleyball girls, and all the other champions that dominated this Olympics. If it wasn't for Phelps (aided by American society's peculiar syndrome of ADHD) America would have done even more poorly. Jon___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l _ Get ideas on sharing photos from people like you. Find new ways to share. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/photogallery/posts?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Photo_Gallery_082008 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Sore losers
You realize of course the Killer Bs have only one British inductee? I don't hate on Britannia. God save the Queen and all that. I love every minute I've spent in GB. However, I hate to point out the painfully obvious again but you are registered and trading quips in a discussion group based in the sci-fi community with a Yank as the namesake.sniff...my countries medal count...sob..oh wait, I forgot we don't really care From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Sore losers Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:10:25 -0700 On Aug 26, 2008, at 7:27 PM, Jon Louis Mann wrote: Americans can not accept that they are on their way down, and no longer first in everything. Some might not be able to. Some of us have been saying so for years. -- Warren Ockrassa Blog | http://indigestible.nightwares.com/ Books | http://books.nightwares.com/ Web | http://www.nightwares.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l _ Be the filmmaker you always wanted to be—learn how to burn a DVD with Windows®. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108588797/direct/01/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Sore losers
On 27 Aug 2008, at 16:35, Nick Arnett wrote: On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 5:36 PM, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So why are the Americans counting total medals instead of golds for the olympics? Who is doing this counting? I just searched Google News and what I see are headlines like US pleased with Olympic medal count. I really couldn't find any of the sort of complaining you allege. From the Houston Chronicle http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5963934.html BEIJING — As China celebrated the end of the 2008 Beijing Olympics by gazing upon its pile of gold medals and dipping into Western culture to proclaim, “We’re No. 1,” the United States contemplated the glories of the socialist collective — and came up with the same answer. Taking individual event finals into account, the host nation was the runaway leader in gold medals, with 51 to 36 for the United States. But the United States led in total medals with 110 to 100 for China, 72 for Russia and 47 for Great Britain, host of the 2012 London Games. On top of that, as the country that introduced and perfected the concept of sabermetrical parsing, the U.S. came up with a way to finish on top in gold medals. Counting its dominance in team sports in the final week of the Games, “More individual U.S. athletes will carry home gold medals around their neck than any other nation, if you want to count it that way,” said Jim Scherr, U.S. Olympic Committee CEO. By that measure, the Americans routed the home team. Computing gold medals presented to each athlete on teams in men’s and women’s basketball, men’s volleyball, women’s rowing, beach volleyball and relay teams in track and swimming, among others, the U.S. claimed 125 total golds to 74 for China. In total medals awarded, the United States scored 315 to 186 for China. And why the innuendo about Usain Bolt as long as he's clean? I searched on that phrase and I got nothing. The only articles I find about this are some concerns that Jamaica only started a national drug- testing program after the start of the Olympics. Who's supposedly saying this? The news reports I'm reading say that the Jamaican team was tested repeatedly during the games. In short, cite please. From the New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/22/sports/olympics/22longman.html?_r=1emoref=slogin As Records Fall, Suspicions of Doping Linger [...] I want to believe that talent and hard work and determination are not fossil fuels, that a human, unlike a car, does not need chemical additives to run at peak efficiency. Bolt is likable, as playful as he is fast. His speed is breathtaking. He is the first man to win the Olympic 100 and 200 meters since Carl Lewis in 1984, the first to set world records in both events at the same Summer Games. But when I want to fully believe, I feel a twinge of skepticism. It nags, like a strained hamstring. Plenty more in that vein in the American press. Cite Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ You are coming to a sad realization. Cancel or Allow? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Sore losers
On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 12:49 PM, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On 27 Aug 2008, at 16:35, Nick Arnett wrote: On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 5:36 PM, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So why are the Americans counting total medals instead of golds for the olympics? Who is doing this counting? I just searched Google News and what I see are headlines like US pleased with Olympic medal count. I really couldn't find any of the sort of complaining you allege. From the Houston Chronicle http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5963934.html BEIJING — As China celebrated the end of the 2008 Beijing Olympics by gazing upon its pile of gold medals and dipping into Western culture to proclaim, We're No. 1, the United States contemplated the glories of the socialist collective — and came up with the same answer. Taking individual event finals into account, the host nation was the runaway leader in gold medals, with 51 to 36 for the United States. But the United States led in total medals with 110 to 100 for China, 72 for Russia and 47 for Great Britain, host of the 2012 London Games. On top of that, as the country that introduced and perfected the concept of sabermetrical parsing, the U.S. came up with a way to finish on top in gold medals. Counting its dominance in team sports in the final week of the Games, More individual U.S. athletes will carry home gold medals around their neck than any other nation, if you want to count it that way, said Jim Scherr, U.S. Olympic Committee CEO. By that measure, the Americans routed the home team. Computing gold medals presented to each athlete on teams in men's and women's basketball, men's volleyball, women's rowing, beach volleyball and relay teams in track and swimming, among others, the U.S. claimed 125 total golds to 74 for China. In total medals awarded, the United States scored 315 to 186 for China. And why the innuendo about Usain Bolt as long as he's clean? I searched on that phrase and I got nothing. The only articles I find about this are some concerns that Jamaica only started a national drug- testing program after the start of the Olympics. Who's supposedly saying this? The news reports I'm reading say that the Jamaican team was tested repeatedly during the games. In short, cite please. From the New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/22/sports/olympics/22longman.html?_r=1emoref=slogin As Records Fall, Suspicions of Doping Linger [...] I want to believe that talent and hard work and determination are not fossil fuels, that a human, unlike a car, does not need chemical additives to run at peak efficiency. Bolt is likable, as playful as he is fast. His speed is breathtaking. He is the first man to win the Olympic 100 and 200 meters since Carl Lewis in 1984, the first to set world records in both events at the same Summer Games. But when I want to fully believe, I feel a twinge of skepticism. It nags, like a strained hamstring. Plenty more in that vein in the American press. Cite Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ You are coming to a sad realization. Cancel or Allow? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l Jere Longman's article is clearly an opinion piece. My impression from reading the article is that Longman is not complaining that a non-American won the gold in the 200 meters, but is a comment on doping in sports. Here is a link to the NYT article written when Bolt won the gold medal. It is in a different vein. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/21/sports/olympics/21bolt.html john ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
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Re: Sore losers
On 28/08/2008, at 1:35 AM, Nick Arnett wrote: On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 5:36 PM, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So why are the Americans counting total medals instead of golds for the olympics? Who is doing this counting? I just searched Google News and what I see are headlines like US pleased with Olympic medal count. I really couldn't find any of the sort of complaining you allege. Bah! You're all counting it wrong! The true measure of medal count is the number of medals per capita GDP! At which point North Korea wins! I for one, support Fake Kim's[1] experiments in increasing medal worth by reducing GDP. 1. http://www.japantoday.com/category/kuchikomi/view/north-koreas-kim-died-in-2003-and-was-replaced-by-lookalike-says-waseda-profesor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Sore losers
The age of the gymnasts is not an arbitrary rule that should be eliminated. My daughter was in gymnastics for a while. Training at Olympic level is very hard on growing bones and muscles, and it is easy for a youngster still growing to do permanent damage to his or her body. My other daughter was in age-group track and field and they were very careful about that, including having well-defined age levels and rules and standards for each. This has been a problem in the past in other school sports where the kids may have the power for the sport but have not yet reached their full growth. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ if that is the reason for creating the rule, perhaps it should be extended so young children are not allowed to start training until their bodies have matured, and the vault and beam competitions should be eliminated altogether, for obvious reasons... jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Brazilian volleyball girls
I bow down to the Chinese volleyball girls, Err... They were blasted 3 x 0 by the Brazilian volleyball girls :-P Alberto Monteiro missed that, congrats to brazil!~) did you happen to see the joke on letterman about the chinese volleyball girl? jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Sore losers
Training is fine; competition at the Olympic level and the training necessary for *that* is too much for growing bodies. Vault and beam are fine - kids do that sort of thing for fun, in fact,and always have. But still, the Games should be for adults. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:31:11 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Sore losers To: brin-l@mccmedia.com The age of the gymnasts is not an arbitrary rule that should be eliminated. My daughter was in gymnastics for a while. Training at Olympic level is very hard on growing bones and muscles, and it is easy for a youngster still growing to do permanent damage to his or her body. My other daughter was in age-group track and field and they were very careful about that, including having well-defined age levels and rules and standards for each. This has been a problem in the past in other school sports where the kids may have the power for the sport but have not yet reached their full growth. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ if that is the reason for creating the rule, perhaps it should be extended so young children are not allowed to start training until their bodies have matured, and the vault and beam competitions should be eliminated altogether, for obvious reasons... jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Sore losers
They whine because they can't prove the Chinese gymnasts lied about their age. Who cares what age they are; that is an arbitrary rule that should be eliminated. Jon I could be wrong, but doesn't the rule have something to do with the adverse effect of the extreme amount of stress on a young, developing body? If the rule was arbitrary, why don't they have it for other sports? In any case, who are the Chinese (or any one else) to decide that the rules are OK to break if they think that they are arbitrary? Also, I could be wrong but I seem to remember that when you and I were younger Jon, the U.S. got fewer medals in the Olympics than both the Soviets _and_ the East Germans, so I'm not sure how we're going down by getting the second most Gold medals. By the way, I thought the Olympics were great and I watched as much as I had time for. The Chinese did a great job. Doug i stand corrected on the reason for the rule. furthermore i would advocate that all dangerous competitions involving children be eliminated altogether. it is not a new phenomenon for america to lose in the olympics. what i meant when i said america was going down is that we are losing our dominance on the world stage. china is on the way up. russia is also recovering and starting to challenge us in europe, again. also, the chinese are not the only olympic athletes to cheat, they just aren't imprisoned when caught. jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Sore losers
---Pat Mathews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Training is fine; competition at the Olympic level and the training necessary for *that* is too much for growing bodies. Vault and beam are fine - kids do that sort of thing for fun, in fact,and always have. But still, the Games should be for adults. doing flips on a four inch beam are not fine for kids, even if they do it all the time. neither are boxing, football and a host of other dangerous sports. when i grew up we played sports, and it was fun... jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Sore losers
I was going to respond to this in detail, but decided not to. I just wonder, if William has posted something with the same tone about a religious group, how many people would be all over him right now. The irony is, that I probably agree with some of what you're saying, but as an American I find the tone offensive. Jon is vying to be the Liberals Hate America posterboy. G xponent Humor Should Reflect Reality Maru rob guilty as charged!~) jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Sore losers
Ah. Gotcha. Yeah - we played sports, but today? Play? What's that? Something you make a playdate for. Don't get me started; I think my grandbabies are hideously overprotected. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 13:07:30 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Sore losers To: brin-l@mccmedia.com ---Pat Mathews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Training is fine; competition at the Olympic level and the training necessary for *that* is too much for growing bodies. Vault and beam are fine - kids do that sort of thing for fun, in fact,and always have. But still, the Games should be for adults. doing flips on a four inch beam are not fine for kids, even if they do it all the time. neither are boxing, football and a host of other dangerous sports. when i grew up we played sports, and it was fun... jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Sore losers
You have a weird perspective. It isn't that America is moving down, it is that so many are moving up into our realm. And yes there are many who see this and react with paranoid insecurity, but they do not make up anything like a majority. Most people really don't care all that much, evidenced by the lack of violent protest over the items in your next paragraph. Most people are proud we did well, enjoyed the games while they lasted, and will remember only some highlights a few years down the road. You shouldn't pay so much attention to the loudmouths, they are not representative. xponent Phelps Was Awesome Maru rob i believe they are representative and america is going down (which may not be a bad thing). nationalism is an aberration that is found in many countries, and to be abhorred. it is especially repugnant in nations where their citizens actually believe they are better than other nations (like some french, saudi, israeli, japanese citizens, etc.). at least the english have accepted they are no longer imperial rulers, even if many brits still believe their civilization is superior. in my lifelong travels around the world, i have encountered many ugly americans and can understand why michele obama said that for the first time she was proud to be an american. I fervently hope that obama will undo much of the damage done by bushco. jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Sore losers
From: Tom F [EMAIL PROTECTED] You realize of course the Killer Bs have only one British inductee? I don't hate on Britannia. God save the Queen and all that. I love every minute I've spent in GB. However, I hate to point out the painfully obvious again but you are registered and trading quips in a discussion group based in the sci-fi community with a Yank as the namesake.sniff...my countries medal count...sob..oh wait, I forgot we don't really care. i have to agree that rule britannia were less brutal than most of the other european colonists. i am also a yank, who still smarts from being told (in the 60s) america, love it or leave it. i was born in this country and reserve my inalienable right to remain here, and hate the government!~) at least i do more than complain, and try my best to change it. jon http://www.smartvoter.org/2006/11/07/ca/la/vote/mann_j/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Sore losers
Jeez dude, did you not get a hug today? As an average 'Yank' I can say with all honesty most of us could give a ** about our medals. G Dub is an A-Hole. We get it. Didn't we join this forum because we're interested in science fiction? From: Tom F [EMAIL PROTECTED] sorry to offend you, tom, but i am just stating my opinion. i signed on to this list because i am a fan of dr. brin's books, and to me science fiction is socially relevant, speculative literature. i also enjoy the repartee, especially on topics of religion and politics... jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Sore losers
Ah. Gotcha. Yeah - we played sports, but today? Play? What's that? Something you make a playdate for. Don't get me started; I think my grandbabies are hideously overprotected. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ my older son had pop warner. i did play little league, but i had more fun playing pickup games and didn't have to sit on the bench... my 5 year old who watches t.v. and plays violent video games, except on the few occasions when i get to see him. my ex doesn't believe in any kind of trauma so jerry is rarely refused anything, and regulates himself. he recently weaned himself from breast feeding and diapers. dr. spock would be in shock... ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brazilian volleyball girls
Jon Louis Mann wrote: I bow down to the Chinese volleyball girls, Err... They were blasted 3 x 0 by the Brazilian volleyball girls :-P missed that, congrats to brazil!~) It was the first time the girls won the gold medal. They didn't even win it at the Pan american games, here in Rio - they lost to the archnemesis Cuba team. BTW, I think I mentioned this before. During the closing ceremony, everybody cheered the USA team, and booed the Cuba team, because Cuba left the games one day before the end - the Zero Hypothesis was fear of desertion, the Alternative Hypothesis was the aerial chaos in Brazil. did you happen to see the joke on letterman about the chinese volleyball girl? No. BTW, how can China still have female teams, with its enormous abortion rate? Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Sore losers
At 03:13 PM Wednesday 8/27/2008, Pat Mathews wrote: Ah. Gotcha. Yeah - we played sports, but today? Play? What's that? Something you make a playdate for. Don't get me started; I think my grandbabies are hideously overprotected. What do you do when several times each year in your town kids get shot dead in the park, walking down the street, standing on the balcony outside their apartment door, or when a bullet comes through the window or wall (all of them being collateral damage rather than the target of whatever gang or gangs are doing the shooting)? Unprintable Opinion Maru . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brazilian volleyball girls
On 28 Aug 2008, at 00:43, Alberto Vieira Ferreira Monteiro wrote: Jon Louis Mann wrote: I bow down to the Chinese volleyball girls, Err... They were blasted 3 x 0 by the Brazilian volleyball girls :-P missed that, congrats to brazil!~) did you happen to see the joke on letterman about the chinese volleyball girl? No. I think it was one of the Chinese beach volleyball teams, probably Xue/ Zhang? BTW, how can China still have female teams, with its enormous abortion rate? They still have a huge young female population even if it is slightly lower than the young male population. Plenty of scope to find a Xue Chen (a 6'3 beach volleyball player) and so on. In fact I should think China is the country with the world's largest young female population despite gender imbalance followed by India (which also has a male excess). Relative Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Theists cannot be trusted as they believe that right and wrong are the arbitrary proclamations of invisible demons. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Sore losers
On Aug 26, 2008, at 11:27 PM, Rceeberger wrote: On 8/27/2008 12:10:37 AM, Warren Ockrassa ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Aug 26, 2008, at 9:49 PM, Rceeberger wrote: You have a weird perspective. It isn't that America is moving down, it is that so many are moving up into our realm. Beg to differ. In the last three or so decades we've seen a rise in disparagement of education,* particularly in the sciences, a loss of critical thinking ability in the general population, and a trend toward becoming a service-based economy. This doesn't strike me as evidence that the US is holding its own; the sense to me is one of an empire in decline. * When intellectuals are called elitists, for instance, I disbelieve that things bode well. While I would agree that intellectualism is and has been the subject of much trash talking, our standard of living has risen during my lifetime modestly while it has risen dramatically in much of the developing world (Frex China). I can't say I disagree there, but I wonder how it looks from the perspective of the Chinese. They seem to have taken notes from the Cheney administration regarding free speech or protest zones, which apart from a few minor mentions in major US news organs went more or less totally ignored. Except, apparently, by a few protestors who got arrested. It seems to me that a narrow focus on ones hobby horses and axes is not conducive to a critical appraisal. I'm not sure what's narrow about having a worldview that tries to take in perspectives outside of the US. We're not doing well in the diplomacy department, we're engaged in two losing wars in the Middle East, our economy is imploding, Louisiana seems to be worried it might get creamed by another hurricane which we won't be able to help with any more than we did with Katrina, we've ignored our interstate system for three decades, we're locking up increasing numbers of people on crimes which would be petty or nonexistent in any other industrialized nation, and our schools are laughingstocks. These are hardly hobbyhorses; they're more or less indisputable facts. Life here has not begun to suck while no longer sucking in other parts of the world. Heh, yes, that's true. It is, however, beginning to suck more than it did before. -- Warren Ockrassa Blog | http://indigestible.nightwares.com/ Books | http://books.nightwares.com/ Web | http://www.nightwares.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Sore losers
Bummer! Where were you living? Because my daughters escaped that, and this town is a lot quieter now than it was then. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:16:40 -0500 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Sore losers At 03:13 PM Wednesday 8/27/2008, Pat Mathews wrote: Ah. Gotcha. Yeah - we played sports, but today? Play? What's that? Something you make a playdate for. Don't get me started; I think my grandbabies are hideously overprotected. What do you do when several times each year in your town kids get shot dead in the park, walking down the street, standing on the balcony outside their apartment door, or when a bullet comes through the window or wall (all of them being collateral damage rather than the target of whatever gang or gangs are doing the shooting)? Unprintable Opinion Maru . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Sore losers
At 08:41 PM Wednesday 8/27/2008, Pat Mathews wrote: Bummer! Where were you living? Because my daughters escaped that, and this town is a lot quieter now than it was then. Just recent events on the local news in Birmingham, AL. And I'm not counting things like the discovery about a week or so ago of the bodies of five Hispanic men in a house south of town (in what is considered a more affluent and better suburb than the city itself) who had been tortured with electric shocks before having their throats slashed, which seems to have been a drug-related crime (they made some arrests over the weekend). . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Sore losers
Charlie wrote: I could be wrong, but doesn't the rule have something to do with the adverse effect of the extreme amount of stress on a young, developing body? If the rule was arbitrary, why don't they have it for other sports? They do. Divers, 14. Fencers, 17. And so on. That's kinda what I meant. Its not 16 straight across the board. Doug poorly stated on my part maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Sore losers
Ronn! wrote: What do you do when several times each year in your town kids get shot dead in the park, walking down the street, standing on the balcony outside their apartment door, or when a bullet comes through the window or wall (all of them being collateral damage rather than the target of whatever gang or gangs are doing the shooting)? Why that's obvious, you arm the kids! Doug If you outlaw kids with guns only outlaw kids will have guns maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
