Re: Who Are the US's Allies? Re: Seth Finkelstein on 16 words
John D. Giorgis wrote: And despite you snide remarks about '''fluffing up, there is nothing fluffed up about calling Japan and Australia major players in foreign affairs. two glaring omissions from Bob's list. Australia a major player in foreign affairs??? Do you perhaps say this because we are loyal lapdogs to the US and so you think this lends credibility to your views, or would you still say this if we opposed the liberation of Iraq? Australia is currently leading a small force to remedy a breakdown in law and order in the Solomon Islands, but at the invitation of the government. This to us is a fairly large undertaking, but on the world scale rather minor. Sounds similar to the requests the US has received to go into Liberia. Regards, Ray. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who Are the US's Allies? Re: Seth Finkelstein on 16 words
At 01:14 AM 7/29/2003 -0400 David Hobby wrote: John D. Giorgis wrote: ... You are kidding about this. We had one true ally in this Britain. The other are either not major players or are anxious to please us (not a bad thing. Ahem. ... You have also forgotten Poland, which is the second-largest country in Europe O.K., second in what sense, then? Russia, Sweden, Finland, Norway... are all bigger by area. Russia, Germany, UK, France, Spain... have greater populations. Germany, France, UK, Italy, Russia, Spain,... have greater GDPs. (These from: http://www.geographyiq.com/ranking/rankings.htm) Sorry, I stand corrected on that one I've been reading too many articles lately on the future of the EU and how Poland *will be* the second-largest continental EU member in the near future, and got it confused in my mind. Nevertheless, the point remains that based on size, Poland should count as a major player. And despite you snide remarks about '''fluffing up, there is nothing fluffed up about calling Japan and Australia major players in foreign affairs. two glaring omissions from Bob's list. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who Are the US's Allies? Re: Seth Finkelstein on 16 words
In a message dated 7/28/2003 9:16:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ahem. You have forgotten Austalia, who was very much a true ally. You have also forgotten Japan, the leader of which essentially got his country's constitution ammended so that Japan could help us out in Iraq, and is a major player by any measure. You have also forgotten Poland, which is the second-largest country in Europe - which I guess you could argue is anxious to please us, but given that Poland is already in NATO and on the fast-track to the EU, is certainly in a different category than Bulgaria and Romania. You have also forgotten the Czech Republic, which is in a similar situation to Poland, with the exception of being a major player. Nevertheless, you have also forgotten Spain - the fourth-largest country in continental Europe, and is certainly a major player in the European Union. Yes of course I have forgotten these countries our traditional allies and stalwart military powers all. Poland is already an economic powerhouse in no need of political and economic support from us. I am not by the way denegating their support. I think some of it just real politik but some of it is legitimate graditude. Spain was with us as a country but its people were none too thrilled. Scandanavia was behind us of course. Now my point is not that these countries were right and we were wrong; I have already said that I support the war. My point is that we turned off many of our traditional allies and way to many people in Europe with our high handed arrogant actions before and after 911. Bush senior did not do this. He sent Baker around the world for months to build a coalition. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who Are the US's Allies? Re: Seth Finkelstein on 16 words
In a message dated 7/28/2003 9:16:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ahem. You have forgotten Austalia, who was very much a true ally. You have also forgotten Japan, the leader of which essentially got his country's constitution ammended so that Japan could help us out in Iraq, and is a major player by any measure. You have also forgotten Poland, which is the second-largest country in Europe - which I guess you could argue is anxious to please us, but given that Poland is already in NATO and on the fast-track to the EU, is certainly in a different category than Bulgaria and Romania. You have also forgotten the Czech Republic, which is in a similar situation to Poland, with the exception of being a major player. Nevertheless, you have also forgotten Spain - the fourth-largest country in continental Europe, and is certainly a major player in the European Union. Yes of course I have forgotten these countries our traditional allies and stalwart military powers all. Poland is already an economic powerhouse in no need of political and economic support from us. I am not by the way denegating their support. I think some of it just real politik but some of it is legitimate graditude. Spain was with us as a country but its people were none too thrilled. Scandanavia was behind us of course. Now my point is not that these countries were right and we were wrong; I have already said that I support the war. My point is that we turned off many of our traditional allies and way to many people in Europe with our high handed arrogant actions before and after 911. Bush senior did not do this. He sent Baker around the world for months to build a coalition. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who Are the US's Allies? Re: Seth Finkelstein on 16 words
Ahem. ... You have also forgotten Poland, which is the second-largest country in Europe O.K., second in what sense, then? Russia, Sweden, Finland, Norway... are all bigger by area. ... Sorry, I stand corrected on that one ... And despite you snide remarks about '''fluffing up, That was based on Poland. It did give the sense that you were trying to make the list sound bigger than it was, meaning that you knew it needed it. Actually, I'm not sure how Spain is 4th largest in Continental Europe, either, but let's let that slide. ---David ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Who Are the US's Allies? Re: Seth Finkelstein on 16 words
At 09:52 PM 7/28/2003 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bush _used_ the sympathy 9/11 generated to make possible something that would not have been possible without it - the removal of Saddam Hussein, something that was clearly not in the interest of anyone in the region or in Europe (save England). His ability to do that was diplomatic skill of the highest order. You are kidding about this. We had one true ally in this Britain. The other are either not major players or are anxious to please us (not a bad thing. Ahem. You have forgotten Austalia, who was very much a true ally. You have also forgotten Japan, the leader of which essentially got his country's constitution ammended so that Japan could help us out in Iraq, and is a major player by any measure. You have also forgotten Poland, which is the second-largest country in Europe - which I guess you could argue is anxious to please us, but given that Poland is already in NATO and on the fast-track to the EU, is certainly in a different category than Bulgaria and Romania. You have also forgotten the Czech Republic, which is in a similar situation to Poland, with the exception of being a major player. Nevertheless, you have also forgotten Spain - the fourth-largest country in continental Europe, and is certainly a major player in the European Union. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who Are the US's Allies? Re: Seth Finkelstein on 16 words
John D. Giorgis wrote: ... You are kidding about this. We had one true ally in this Britain. The other are either not major players or are anxious to please us (not a bad thing. Ahem. ... You have also forgotten Poland, which is the second-largest country in Europe O.K., second in what sense, then? Russia, Sweden, Finland, Norway... are all bigger by area. Russia, Germany, UK, France, Spain... have greater populations. Germany, France, UK, Italy, Russia, Spain,... have greater GDPs. (These from: http://www.geographyiq.com/ranking/rankings.htm) Yes, there were some allies. But really! If you have to fluff up the list to make it look bigger, then you know that it's thin. ---David ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
