Re: [BRLTTY] Clang error on cldr.o

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dear Raoul,

Can you please replace the cfg-darwin you have by the attached one?
It removes the "--quiet" option from the call to configure, so we can
see what it prints which will be easier to read than going through the
whole config.log.

Can you please do something like

./cfg-warwin > /tmp/configure.log 2>&1
make > /tmp/build.log 2>&1

and then send us the two files, /tmp/configure.log and /tmp/build.log?

thanks,

Seb.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Clang error on cldr.o

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Thanks Raoul. can you please attachconfig.log?
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Re: [BRLTTY] Clang error on cldr.o

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hi Raoul,

Which commands did you use after dowloading brltty?

Am I correct that you would like to compile it on macOS?

If so, did you use ./cfg-darwin rather than ./configure to
configure brltty?

Seb.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Graphical BRLTTY running but not used in terminals

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Samuel Thibault (2024/03/26 13:45 +0100):
> Sébastien Hinderer, le mar. 26 mars 2024 13:40:48 +0100, a ecrit:
> > I think what mislead me is that, although the braille rendering isdone
> > by BRLTTY, there continues to be a speech rendering which, I think, _is_
> > done by Orca.
> 
> That's entirely possible, since Orca doesn't even know that brltty is
> reading it. You probably want to set a per-app preference to disable
> speech in terminal.

I confirm this works! Thanks!

Seb.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Graphical BRLTTY running but not used in terminals

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hey Samuel,

Samuel Thibault (2024/03/26 13:34 +0100):
> AFAIK, the latest released versions of orca and brltty handle it
> correctly: usually Orca uses the default priority (50), except in flat
> review mode, in which case it uses a higher priority (70). On the brltty
> side, the a2 screen reader reports SCQ_GOOD for the terminal case, which
> translates to default+10, so 60, so it'd be higher than what orca
> sets.

Plenty of thanks for your feedback.

I don't think I'm using flat review mode.

I have ocra 46.0-1 installed, and brltty 6.6-5.

It shouldn't matter but xbrlapi 6.6-5 is installed, too.

I am noticing now that my assumption that the terminal was dealt by Orca
was kind of wrong. Indeed, BRLTTY's copy/paste does work so it must
definitely be BRLTTY which is rendering the terminal's content.

I think what mislead me is that, although the braille rendering isdone
by BRLTTY, there continues to be a speech rendering which, I think, _is_
done by Orca. Os it's as if the terminal is rendered by both brltty (for
the braille part) and Orca (for the speech part). I am wondering whether
this is a desirablebehaviour, actually.

Seb.
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[BRLTTY] Graphical BRLTTY running but not used in terminals

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dear all,

I think my graphical Mate terminals are rendered by Orca, whereas I do
see a graphical BRLTTY process, run with the command

/bin/brltty -b ba -s no -x a2 -N

I assume there is a priroity issue between two BrlAPI clients. HAs
anybody already encountered this problem? Is there a known fix?

Thanks!

Seb.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Affordable refreshable braille display project

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Many thanks for your detailed repsonse Jason!

Curious about the different terminals you mention. Would be nice to be
able to try them somehow just to get a feel.

Best wishes,

Seb.
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[BRLTTY] Affordable refreshable braille display project

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dear all,

The link below has been sent to me by a friend who himself found it on
HackerNews:

https://jacquesmattheij.com/refreshablebraille/BrailleDisplayProject.html

I confess that the document felt too long for me to try to study it so I
am just passing the link,, with the hope that it wiill be of interest to
somebody on the list.

Best wishes,

Seb.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Focus Blue 5th gen and multiple bluetooth connections

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Many thanks Dave for having taken the time to write such cristal-clear
explanations. I find them really helpful and illuminating.

Seb.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Making easier to accumulate filenames in theclipboard

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello Nicolas and many thanks for your proposed implementation, I think
it's indeed a very good idea!

I'm just unsure about the separator that shoudl  be used when
concatenating. I do understand that '\n' suits your use-case well, but,
after, all, why would ' ' (space) not be considered another legitimate
candidate?

Best wishes,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Making easier to accumulate filenames in theclipboard

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hi Nicolas,

I will experiment more with rectangular copy and perhaps it will
actually be enough, you are right. Same with "git stat --diff".

I still think it could be handy to be able to choose filenames from
within a list, the output of ls, say, as as a sighted user can select
files and folders in a folderview to then perform an operation on them.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Making easier to accumulate filenames in theclipboard

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Jason White (2023/07/08 17:52 -0400):
> 
> On 8/7/23 12:47, Sébastien Hinderer wrote:
> > But if you have modified 10 files and want to commit only 5 of them,
> > git has no way to know which ones you want to commit and then I don't
> > see how you can avoid having to pick up some names in a list.
> 
> You can always use git add -i to choose the desired files interactively.
> 
> I only ever modify the files that I want to commit. Then I commit them, and
> move on to the next change. This avoids the problem altogether.

I fear things are not always that straightforward, here.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Making easier to accumulate filenames in theclipboard

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Jason White (2023/07/08 12:40 -0400):
> I can pipe the output perfectly well here. There are also plenty of options
> given in the Git status manual page to control that output (e.g., selecting
> which file names to show).

But if you have modified 10 files and want to commit only 5 of them,
git has no way to know which ones you want to commit and then I don't
see how you can avoid having to pick up some names in a list.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Making easier to accumulate filenames in theclipboard

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hi,

Jason White (2023/07/03 08:31 -0400):
> Can't you use pipes or shell variables for that?

Well the output of git status, for instance, can't be piped to a
variable. Especially given that, most of the time, it's not the entire
output that I want to re-use but just a selected subset of it.

> Have you tried xclip, or wl-copy, etc.?

No, first because I only use the Linux console, second because I simply
can't imagine how using those can help in the situation I described?

> It seems to me that you have better solutions than manually copying and
> pasting text from the terminal using BRLTTY.

I am definitely interested to hearing about them but at themoment I don
not really understandhow the suggestions can help. Apologies if I am
missing somethin g here, especially if it's something obvious to
everybody else.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Making easier to accumulate filenames in theclipboard

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello, many thanks for this response!

Nicolas Pitre (2023/07/03 11:03 -0400):
> Not sure if this fits your use case but I often have such list of 
> filenames to be found in a vertical list. What I do in that case is to 
> copy them using the rectangular copy function, and then:
> 
> $ xargs git add [ENTER]
> [paste clipboard content here]
> [CTRL-D]
> 
> You may experiment with "xargs echo" instead to see the result.

But that works only if the list you want to copy is contiguous, right?

If it's not, then you'll have to accumulate rectangular cuts and Iam
guessing that no space willbe inserted between the different rectangles,
right? Notto say the rectangles are not a good idea, I think they really
are an improvement, but it feels to me that they do not quite suffice.
Please, all, feel free to correct me if I am wrong here.

Sébastien.
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[BRLTTY] Making easier to accumulate filenames in theclipboard

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dear all,

I assume that it is a current workflow to have a list of filenames
displayed on screen as output of ls or git status or find etc. and to
accumulate them in the clipboard to then paste them onto another
command-line.

In my case this workflow is so frequent that I'd like it to become even
easier.

More specifically, currently adding a filename to the clipboard involves
two operations: (1) beginning the copy operation by marking the beginning
of the filename and (2) ending the copy and concatenating to the
clipboard by marking the end of the filename. In addition to these two
operations, if one wants the names to concatenate well, one has to make
sure to include spaces in the concatenation and these spaces have to appear
at the beginning of the copied regions, otherwise they won't be taken into
account if I am not mistaken.

I see two things that could be considered to make the workflow easier. On
the one hand, one could imagine an accumulation mode where it is
implicit that what is being accumulated has to be separated by
spaces so that one would not have to take care of that.
On the other hand, it could be explored whether two operations are
really necessary to add a filename to the clipboard. Couldn't we,
for instance, imagine to enter a context where each click on a routing
key (in combination with another key) would simply take the word around
that click and add its content to the clipboard, with a space before
it if the clipboard is non-empty?

Sure, that last suggestion would not quite work for filenames containing
spaces. Still, that would make this kind of accumulation of
filenames so much easier, it feels.

Best wishes,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Reliable braille display hardware?

[Sébastien Hinderer]

kpe...@blinksoft.com (2023/06/23 14:23 -0400):
> No just a little less than 1 second for 20 cells a little less than 1 second
> for 40 cells because they refresh in a 20 cell wave in less than 1
> second.

Hmm, that's feels quite a lot of time to me! Would need to try to make
sure it wouldn't be an issue.
seb.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Reliable braille display hardware?

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello,

Very interested in the Orbit that I don't think I have tried so far.

Do they exist with PC-like keyboard?

thanks,

Seb.

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Re: [BRLTTY] brlapi problems with the Canute

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello Stefan and many thanksfor your report!

I fear I won't be able to help and am very sorry about that.

We would need people much more versed in Windows than me.

I hope you will find a solution.

Best wishes,

Sébastien.

Stefan Moisei (2023/01/28 19:42 +):
> Hello,
> Just subscribed to this mailing list. I am Stefan, a blind programmer for
> Romania.
> I am trying to use brlapi with a canute. I am mentioning the display since
> this might be part of the issue.
> 1. I made it work in brltty, it works in the windows console.
> 2. I tried the brlapi from NVDA  (I think it is 0.8) after net start brlapi
> and got this:
> 
> brlapi.OperationError: 
> for get display size, get driver name, write text etc..
> 3. I tried a standalone brlapi included in the brltty kit, but it refuses to
> install, claming I don't have 32 bit python, even though I tried 3.8 and
> 3.11. WWhat version should I use?
> 4.  I also thought of using the java bindings, since I saw in the source
> that they exist, but could not find binaries.
> Thanks

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Re: [BRLTTY] Strategies for copy/paste

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello,

Samuel Thibault (2023/01/23 11:38 +0100):
> Hello,
> 
> Sébastien Hinderer, le sam. 21 janv. 2023 19:15:38 +0100, a ecrit:
> > Dr. Volker Jaenisch (2023/01/21 18:25 +0100):
> > >This may be due to tmux but the real terminal is 700km away and I
> > >cannot look upon it.
> > 
> > Thinking about it twice it seems likely, yes.
> 
> Yes, tmux won't know at all about brltty's selection, so it cannot
> transmit the information to the other client.
> 
> Another way to perform copy/paste would be to use tmux' support, which
> show up on all connect clients. But that won't teach your brother the
> brltty way.
> 
> Ideally brltty would be able to tell tmux where the selection is, that'd
> have to be discussed with tmux people. Possibly brltty could run a tmux
> command to tell it the selection, and tmux could be made to highlight
> the selection.

Could it be that there is a little misunderstanding, here?

The original discussion was indeed about the text selected to be
copy/pasted into brltty's clipboard, but then we moved to the
highlighting by brltty of the position of the braille window. That's
where I wanted to ask your opinion, Samuel.

Seb.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Strategies for copy/paste

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello,

Dr. Volker Jaenisch (2023/01/21 18:25 +0100):
>Dear Sébastien!
> 
>Am 17.01.23 um 21:05 schrieb Sébastien Hinderer:
> 
> # highlight-braille-window-location: no {no yes}
> highlight-braille-window-location yes
> 
>Just to check twice. This settings indicates for sighted users the
>location of the braille window in the terminal?

Yes. By highlighting, on the screen, theoprtion of it which is currently
shown in braille.

>I tried this setting, but I see no highligthing in the terminal.

Oh, so sorry about thatt.

You may try it locally with the graphicual virtual braille driver...

>This may be due to tmux but the real terminal is 700km away and I
>cannot look upon it.

Thinking about it twice it seems likely, yes.

Actually brltty will highlight the portion displayed in braille
on the screen of the computer of your brother (so at the level of the
virual console), but then I guess tmux can not figure this out so likely
it can not show that to you.

Currenlty I can't think of a way to share thisinfo but still it owuld be
so useful!

Do you have an idea, Samuel?

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Keyboard support HandyTech braille star 80 in brltty

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Halim,

Could it be that your keyboard is just becoming  old and its cable
becomes unreliable?

Best wishes,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Strategies for copy/paste

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hey Volker,

Dr. Volker Jaenisch (2023/01/17 22:27 +0100):
> Will try it as soon as my bro is online :-)

Cool. Could you please report here whether the highlighting works even
when sharing the screen through tmux? Would really like to know this.

> > For the highlighting of selected text do you miss it a lot?
> 
> Not really. It was only o possible option while I was deciding wether the
> copy/paste is best done by brltty or the application.
> Since my bro now becomes quite fluent with the "nano" key bindings I think
> the decision is : the application.
 
Well this may not work everywhere. In an IRC client for instance, or if
you are viewing somethign in less, or very simply in a terminal, if you
want to copy/paste the output of a command, I'd say brltty is the only
possibility, unless of course you use gpm or you run your terminal e.g.
in emacs or the like. Oh and perhaps screen / tmux do have their own
copy/paste facilities. Also sometimes I use both simultaneously (brltty
+ editor) to manage several copied things. I know I could ahve several
brltty clipboards but I never learned the bindings, I certainly should.

> After the first struggle the combination of "alpine mail" and "nano" as
> email editor works seamless and reliable.

If not too late I'd suggest switching to slightly more "mainstream"
tools, e.g. mutt and an editor like emacs or vim. If your brother ends
up wanting to program, such editors open the way to much more
possibilities, I believe. Same for mutt. In my opinion, it's really
worth it. Also, emacs has org-mode which IMO is invaluable.

> Many thanks for your (and the brltty list) kind help

My pleasure, was a very fun exchange!

Seb.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Strategies for copy/paste

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello Volker,

Re: the highlighting braille window on screen feature, it can be enabled
from within BRLTTY's preference menu, in the navigation options submenu.

It is also possible to modify directly the brltty.prefs file, I think
it's the "highlight-braille-window-location" preference. In my
brltty.prefs I have:

# highlight-braille-window-location: no {no yes}
highlight-braille-window-location yes

For the highlighting of selected text do you miss it a lot?

On my side, even while working with sighted friends I never felt a need
for that, whereas the highlighting of hte braille window is a must, at
least for me.

Best wishes,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] compile errors on osx

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Raoul, it seems you forgot to attach the files.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] compile errors on osx

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello Raoul,

Raoul MEGELAS (2023/01/17 09:44 +0100):
> Hello Sébastien,
> 
> You are quite right.
> Bratty compiles quite well with the following:
>—disable-x  —disable-api and  the most important —prefix=/usr/local

Why did you need to disable BrlAPI? What happens if you let it enabled?

Since you use prefix, I am guessing that you are installing brltty, is
that correct?

Did you consider running it from its sources, at least as long as it's
for testing purposes? That way you would not need to provide the
--prefix arguemnt. By the way, bewre, you have used a special character
to mean --, rather than the -- sequence itself.

> Perhaps it would be useful to add   that to cfg-darwin.

To me it would make sense to add the --disable-x bit, maybe also the
--prefix bit although it's a packaging thing, but I am really in doubt
about --disable-api which inm y opinion shoulr rather be understood and
fixed.

> Another thing useful to know, but sure Dave knows that:
> Until osx12  (osx11?) apple  switched to zsh.

Do you mean as the default shell, or as the only provided shell?

And, according to your observations, at which stages does it matter that
it's zsh rather than bash?

> That said,  brltty starts and find my focus blue, 
> The communication is fine with it, but 
> There is no  communication with the shell: (nothing displayed).

Did you run brltty through the dedicated brltty-term script?

> So my question is this  because I disabled bbrltty api?

I'll let Dave respond on that one and just say that on Linux, yes,
BrlAPI is needed to have several instances of BRLTTY running and
communicating with each other so it's likely that things work the same
way under MacOS.

Best wishes,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Strategies for copy/paste

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hey Volker!

Veyr nice e-mail, very nice question! thanks!

It's not that often that sighted persons try to work with blind persons
in such a close way and I am guessing this is why the tools are not more
developed than they are now. It's still impressiing how you have dived
deeply into the topic.

As you may or may not know, there is already a feature to highlight on
screen the window which is currently displayed in braille. Not sure
whether that works through tmux or not but would be curious to hear
about it in both cases.

In a similar way, it should in theory be possible to mark on-screen the
text as it gets selected. However, it may be difficult to make the
feature work in a consistent way because, once the text is in brltty's
clipboard, it remains there even when no longer on screen. So I imagine
it would be possible to highlight the beginning of the selected text,
and then perhaps also its end, but then the sighted user would have no
clue on whether it's a linear or rectangular "cut", whether it's getting
accumulated in the clipboard or whether it replaces the current
clipboard content. So the feature already seems challenging to design.
Perhaps more challenging to design than to actually implement, once the
design has been decided.

I am eager to reading input from others, more advanced and experienced
users and developers from the list.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] The (old) screen patch and the (new) brltty-term command.

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Anders Holmberg (2023/01/16 20:05 +0100):
> Hi!
> So where can I Get the brltty with the script.

Actually, you can get it from GitHub. The following command should work
just fine:

git clone httpps://github.com/brltty/brltty.git

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] compile errors on osx

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello Raoul,

Perhaps you can try to configure with the --disable-x option so that
configure does not even try to build the parts that are specific to X? I
am guessing htat they are not relevant anyway on a Mac but let me know
if I am wrong.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Strategies for copy/paste

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello,

Many thanks for the nice reminder!

Dave Mielke (2023/01/12 16:22 -0500):
> [quoted lines by Dr. Volker Jaenisch on 2023/01/12 at 21:16 +0100]
> 
> >Utilizing the functionality of the editor has the charm that I can easily see
> >the regions marked, but the editor marks (Highlighting) are not reflected
> >into brltty and my brother cannot detect the marked region.
> 
> Brltty has a feature that underlines (dots 7 and 8) what's highlighted. You 
> can configure it within the Text Indicators submenu of brltty's Preferences 
> Menu. My settings for this, for example, look like this:
> 
>Show Attributes: Yes
>Blinking Attributes: Yes
>Attributes Blink Period: 0.8 (seconds)
>Attributes Percent Visible: 25 (%)

One question about the two last settings. Are the parentheses and the
space before the % sign really
necessary? How about messages looking like this:

Attributes Blink Period: 0.8 seconds
Attributes Percent Visible: 25%

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Brltty on windows

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dear Sage,

Many thanks for your message. Sorry I won't be able to help, I jsut
wanted to report that I also tried to use BRLTTY on Windows with NVDA
and failed to do so although I spent uqite some time trying to make it
work.

The problem I had was that I was unable to make BRLTTY recognize my
braille display. The problem, as I understand it, is that BRLTTY was not
able to register itself as a USB driver.

I even tried to get in touch with Microsoft on this but that failed,
too.

I think it would really be nice if we could get this to work because it
would make Windows a bit less alien for us Linux users, at least we
would be able to use it through our favourite screen review program.

I have no idea what could unblock the situation at this stage, though.

Sébastien.

Tage Johansson (2022/11/17 08:03 +):
> Hello,
> 
> 
> I am starting with my question:
> 
> Have anyone any experience of using brltty on windows? Perhaps together with
> NVDA. And how did you get it to work?
> 
> 
> I'm trying to run BRLTTY on Windows 11.
> 
> I have installed brltty with libusb 1.0 from the normal installer.
> 
> 
> When I try to run enable-brltty.bat I (as some previous poster on this list)
> get the following error:
> 
> ```
> 
> brltty.exe: cannot open file: //etc/brltty.conf: No such file or directory

> BRLTTY 6.5 rev BRLTTY-6.5+ [https://brltty.app/]
> brltty.exe: service already installed: BrlAPI
> The Braille API (BrlAPI) service is starting..
> The Braille API (BrlAPI) service could not be started.
> 
> A system error has occurred.
> System error 1067 has occurred.
> The process terminated unexpectedly.
> ```
> 
> 
> I don't know what this means. Maybe this is something related to Windows 11.
> But I tried to run brltty manually with the run-brltty.bat script:
> 
> ```
> 
> $ .\run-brltty.bat
> 
> Running BRLTTY. When done, close this window (for example, by using the
> Alt-Space menu). The log file is: C:\Program Files (x86)\BRLTTY\brltty.log
> brltty.exe: cannot open file: //etc/brltty.conf: No such file or directory
> BRLTTY 6.5 rev BRLTTY-6.5+ [https://brltty.app/]
> ```
> 
> 
> But BRLTTY terminates immediately after that message. And my braille display
> does not seem to be recognized.
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Tage
> 
> 
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Re: [BRLTTY] brltty failing to load in initramfs started before systemd-udev-settle.service

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello,

Below the response to a message from Samuel which didn't reach the list
because it had been posted to an older address.

Samuel Thibault (2022/11/13 21:52 +0100):
> Hello,
> 
> Digging back this old mail.
> 
> Sebastian Humenda, le mar. 13 déc. 2016 09:03:14 +0100, a ecrit:
> > The proposed change possibly breaks the initramfs-option of BRLTTY, but that
> > never worked for me so far.
> 
> In the Debian packaging there was a bug, we fixed it with Sébastien this
> week-end, uploaded as version 6.5-5.

Special thanks to Samuel for his help in this. Two remarks:

1. Practically, the ability to embed BRLTTY in initramfs means that one
becomes able to have an encrypted hard drive and to have braille support
for entering the passphrase to access it.

2. As suggested by Samuel privately, it may be suitable to have the
support for embedding BRLTTY in initramfs upstreamed so that this
feature becomes available in all distributions, especially in the
context of being able to encrypt ones hard drive.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] BRLTTY moving the braille window without being asked to

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello,

I think I finally figured out where my problem comes from: I
accidentally enabled the "track-screen-scroll" preference. Disabling it
brings back the behaviour I am used to.

What I don't know, though, is whether the current behaviour of the
preference is the expected one or whether it has unexpected behaviours
which would deserve to be fixed.

Best wishes,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] BRLTTY moving the braille window without being asked to

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hey Elias,

Thanks for the suggestion, it's a good idea.

I tried two different devices connected to the same laptop and the
behaviour can be observed with both of them.

The same devices, connected to another laptop, with an older BRLTTY, do
not trigger the problem.

Best wishes,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] BRLTTY moving the braille window without being asked to

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Sébastien Hinderer (2022/08/19 14:40 +0200):
> Dear all,
> 
> Problem solved, I think.
> 
> I believe that I unintendedly enabled the "Eager Sliding Braille Window"
> feature. I turned it off again and things seem back to normal, which is
> a big relief.

Nope. The strange behaviour is actually still there but I find it really
surprising that nobody else has reported it.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] BRLTTY moving the braille window without being asked to

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dear all,

Problem solved, I think.

I believe that I unintendedly enabled the "Eager Sliding Braille Window"
feature. I turned it off again and things seem back to normal, which is
a big relief.

Best wishes and apologies for the noise,

Sébastien.
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[BRLTTY] BRLTTY moving the braille window without being asked to

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dear all,

I am observing a very strange behaviour and I think this has started
when I upgraded from brltty 6.4 to brltty 6.5, recently.

It does not happen systematically so I can not produce a reproduction
case which is 100% guaranteed to work. But, one circumstance where it
happens quite often is when I type the date command at the shell prompt
and then go one line up to read the date. Most of the time, after a
period whose length can vary, the braille window gets moved to another
place (in other words, it becomes blank).

One possible way I found to avoid this behaviour is to freeze the screen
and this is what makes me think that the problem may come from BRLTTY.

How can I help to debug this further?

Cheers,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] 6.5 within a couple of weeks.

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello,

Jason White (2022/05/03 18:13 -0400):
> With apologies - I wasn't clear: the changed preferences aren't taking
> effect. The instance of BRLTTY which is using AT-SPI does indeed run under
> my user ID.

Perhaps you can create a symlink so that your personal preference file
points to the system-wide one?
Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] BRLTTY and Raspberry PI

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello,

If you disable BRLTTY's beeps, rather in its preference menu or in it's
preferneces file, I expect you should'nt need any PC-speaker related
module.

Sébastien.
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[BRLTTY] Configuring BRLTTY on Windows

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dear all,

I am unable to configure BRLTTY on Windows and looking for help.

It's to use it with an Active Star 40 from Handy Tech but I am not sure
the issue is related to the device itself, because I have not been more
successful with a Brailliant 40 from HumanWare.

What I tried is to configure the HT driver and tell BRLTTY it's
connected through USB.

This does not work and I don't know where the logs are. I also tried to
run brltty with debug enabled, both through the Start Menu and manually,
but I was not able to find the log file either.

Do I have to install the libusb driver or not? Same question for the
manufacturer's firmware, which I thought was not necessary for BRLTTY,
since we don't need anything in addition to BRLTTY on Linux.

Many thanks in advance for any help,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] BrlAPI for Haskell

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello,

I agree with Samuel. I also like the idea of two different types for the
operations depending on whether they assume tty mode or not. To the
point that I'm wondering whether we shouldn't / couldn't consider doing
that at the C level, too.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Brltty sounds absence with sof-firmware driver used on Linux

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dave Mielke (2022/01/11 12:37 -0500):
> [quoted lines by Sébastien Hinderer on 2022/01/11 at 13:17 +0100]
> 
> >I am not familiar with systemd but I was wondering how easy it would be
> >to create variations in the options passed to brltty to include the
> >hour, date or things like that. Maybe systemd has this ability and then
> >you could create different name for the log file at invocation.
> 
> Systemd can set environment variables. We already do that, for
> example, for which USB device to use, which driver to use, etc. It
> doesn't, however, keep track of things like the date and time. We do
> use a wrapper script from Systemd, though, so it could be dealt with
> that way.

Ah yes! e.g. by defining the name of the log file in an environment
variable.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Brltty sounds absence with sof-firmware driver used on Linux

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dave Mielke (2022/01/11 06:57 -0500):
> [quoted lines by Sébastien Hinderer on 2022/01/11 at 12:35 +0100]
> 
> >I'd just try to add %p for the pid and %d for the date, %t for the time,
> >so that the choice can be made by the user.
> 
> Sure. Since brltty doesn't (yet) support % formatting, an easy
> approach to add might be for there to be special \<> variables which
> have these meanings. At the same time, perhaps support for reading
> environment variables should be added.

I am not familiar with systemd but I was wondering how easy it would be
to create variations in the options passed to brltty to include the
hour, date or things like that. Maybe systemd has this ability and then
you could create different name for the log file at invocation.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Brltty sounds absence with sof-firmware driver used on Linux

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dave Mielke (2022/01/11 06:26 -0500):
> [quoted lines by Sébastien Hinderer on 2022/01/11 at 09:47 +0100]
> 
> >If the name of the log-file is specified in brltty.ocnf as has been
> >suggested, am I guessing correctly that if several instances of brltty
> >are run, then the last one will overwrite that log file?
> 
> Yes, exactly!
> 
> >To avoid this, perhaps the PID of the process could be included in the
> >name somehow, like through a %p formatter that would be replaced by the
> >pid?
> 
> Yes, I've started thinking about just such a mechanism. Perhaps it
> should include the PID, to ensure uniqueness, but I'm thinking that a
> date-time component would make the right one easier to find.

I'd just try to add %p for the pid and %d for the date, %t for the time,
so that the choice can be made by the user.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Brltty sounds absence with sof-firmware driver used on Linux

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello,

Dave Mielke (2022/01/10 20:22 -0500):
> [quoted lines by Vsevolod Popov on 2022/01/10 at 23:56 +0300]
> 
> >now everything should be fine.
> 
> Unfortunately, I can't tell because this one was the log for the
> brltty that's using the AtSpi2 screen driver and the BrlAPI braille
> driver.

If the name of the log-file is specified in brltty.ocnf as has been
suggested, am I guessing correctly that if several instances of brltty
are run, then the last one will overwrite that log file?

To avoid this, perhaps the PID of the process could be included in the
name somehow, like through a %p formatter that would be replaced by the
pid?

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Question of brlapi

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello,

高生旺 (2021/12/20 08:26 +0800):
> For example, I'd like to make my own character description.

I'm sorry but I don't understand what you mean.

If you want to provide other descriptions for characters, then perhaps
the descriptions should be in a table so that you can overload it.

You could also handle the display yourself and then by intercepting the
routing keys you would have total control over what is displayed and
what happens.

Is it something in between that you want to do?

In any case, if you want usto provide help I think you need to be way
more clear about what you want. One brief sentence is a bit terse in my
opinion.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Problem using Focus 40 Blue with Narrator and BRLTTY

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hey Siena,

Would you able to send yoru messages in plain text in addition to or in
place of the HTML format?

You need to see in which directory brltty.exe is installed and make sure
you specify its path in the comomand Windows.

Best wishes,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] brltty 6.4 often crashes how to debug?

[Sébastien Hinderer]

I think our friend should compile brlty with debugging symbols and also
configure the system to produce a core file that he could then send so
that we can see where the crash occurs.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Question of brlapi

[Sébastien Hinderer]

I think it odes not make much suense for the two of us to continue
speculative discussions. Let's wait until we know more about what is
wanted.
Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Question of brlapi

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Samuel Thibault (2021/12/19 17:11 +0100):
> Sébastien Hinderer, le dim. 19 déc. 2021 16:57:25 +0100, a ecrit:
> > Yes, that's my idea too. Parameters giving the position of the cursor
> 
> What do you mean by "cursor" ?

Its ucrrent position on the screen, at least that's how I understood the
original request.

> > and then also perhaps the screen dimensions.
> 
> The display size is already available, see the example in

No I was meaning the size of the real screen of the terminal. Because I
thought that the cursor coordinates only make sense if you know the
dimensions of the screen.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Question of brlapi

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Yes, that's my idea too. Parameters giving the position of the cursor
and then also perhaps the screen dimensions.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Problem using Focus 40 Blue with Narrator and BRLTTY

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hey Siena,

You are welcome.

By "determining whether BRLTTY is running", I mmeant going to the task
bar or something that show all the programs that are already running and
see whether BRLTTY appears there or not. I'm sorry I cant be more
specific since I am not a Windows user myself.

By running brlttymanually I meant opening a terminal Window and running
the brltty command from there.

From your logs it seems your configuration file is weird. One
explanation for that is that perhapswhen re-installing brltty the
installer concatenated the new configuraiton file to the old one.

It's something you can fix I think, by opening the mentionned
configuration file and making sure all the directives about which you
see warnings in the logs appear only once.

Finally about the libusb thing I don't know and I am sorry about that.

Could you please remind which decvice you are trying to use and how it's

connected to the PC, i.e. over USB or bluetooth? I assume USB actually.

Cheers,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Problem using Focus 40 Blue with Narrator and BRLTTY

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hey Siena,

I dind't follow everything, so sorry if I forget something or am
repeating stuff alredy told to you.

You may try to figure out whether brltty is running or not.

If it's not, you may try to run it manually to see whether it manages to
connect to your display or not. That would already provide a hint about
where the problem could come from.

hth,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] brltty 6.4 often crashes how to debug?

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Didier Spaier (2021/12/18 22:31 +0100):
> Atre you sure? in
> https://brltty.app/doc/Manual-BRLTTY/English/BRLTTY-5.html#ss5.5 I read:
> "The preferences settings are saved as binary data which, therefore, can't be
> edited by hand."

It was like that in the past, yes, but my /var/lib/brltty/brltty.prefs
is a text file and so is yours probably.
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Re: [BRLTTY] brltty 6.4 often crashes how to debug?

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Well the preferneces file is text-based as far as I know so it could be
shared here as the configuraiton file can be, actually.
Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] brltty 6.4 often crashes how to debug?

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Didier Spaier (2021/12/18 19:46 +0100):
> What is this preferences menu you are talking about? I don't see that in your
> brltty.conf. If it is the menu of your braille display I am not able to test
> that as I do not have no braille display (and would not know how to
> use it).

Preferences are different from what appears in the configuration file.
They are in brltty.prefs I think, or something like that.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Making brltty speak

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello,

Christian Schoepplein (2021/12/15 16:07 +0100):
> On Wed, December 15, 2021 12:34 pm, Sébastien Hinderer wrote:
> >
> > It seems the cleanest solution is to switch from PulseAudo to PipeWire
> > so I'll have to continue experimenting with that.
> 
> Is it possible to switch from pulseaudio to pipewire on Debian Bullseye
> and if yes, how can this be done?*

Just by installing the pipewire and wireplumber packages. Optionnally
also install pipewire-pulse if you have applications that need
pulseaudio.

> I do not know pipewire at all and wonder
> what are the advantages vis pulseaudio? To say it clear, pulseaudio is
> crap, but I've found a solution that brltty and also orca have speech
> output on my system. But if switching to another soundsystem will make
> things easier I'd also switch.

I think piperwire is devleopped in a more professional way and more
maintained. However, if your system works frankly I owuln't touch it. Or
start by experimenting in a VM.

Best wishes,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Making brltty speak

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Many thanks for your clarifications, Nicolas.

I do believe that what you are describing is the best way to go, i.e.
having a good integration between speech and braille.

Is it pulseaudio that you use to output speech?

Does it run as root on your system? If so, does speech-dispatcher run as
root as well, assuming that's what you are using to deal with speech?

Do you also have applications running as your own user and connecting to
speech-dispatcher, like orca?

Best wishes,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Making brltty speak

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hi Nicolas and many thanks for your testimonial!

IS it brltty that you use to control the speech synthesis system, or
do you use two different screen readers, one for speech and brltty for
braille?

Cheers,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Making brltty speak

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Jason White (2021/12/15 08:32 -0500):
> 
> On 8/12/21 13:05, Sébastien Hinderer wrote:
> > I would really like to be able not to use pulse audio, but unfortunately
> > I am using GUI so I am not sure this is really an option.
> 
> I switched to Pipewire and Orca continued to work as desired - so I don't
> understand why you think this isn't an option. Just avoid Pipewire 0.3.41
> until a regression is fixed. 0.3.40 is fine though.

Because, when I wrote this, I didn't know ther ewas the possibility to
use speech-dispatcher with pipewire. Well as far as I understand it, it
still uses Pulse Audio in a way because, at the moment,
speech-dispatcher does not implement a pipewire output method so one has
to install pipewire-pulse (on Debian) so that pipewire emulates a
pulseaudio interface speech-dispatcher can connect to.

Or am I missing something?

> One of the many advantages of using a braille display is that it allows you
> to interact with your system without working audio.

I know that, of course. I'm a full-time braille user aspiring to
experiment with audio to see whether that could bring a gain either in
productivity, or in saving energy or perhaps even both.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Making brltty speak

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello Halim and many thanks to all for your help.

It seems the cleanest solution is to switch from PulseAudo to PipeWire
so I'll have to continue experimenting with that.

Best wishes,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Tr: Braillists Forum: The Canute 360

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Many thanks for the feedback JAson, it was very interesting!
Sébastien.
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[BRLTTY] Tr: Braillists Forum: The Canute 360

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dear all,

I'm forwarding htis message which may be of interest to some of you. A
multi-line braille display...

- Forwarded message from geo...@techno-vision.co.uk -

From: geo...@techno-vision.co.uk
Subject: Braillists Forum: The Canute 360
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 20:39:49 -
To: brailli...@googlegroups.com

[I did ask a moderator if it was UK to post the following]

 

I'm delighted to say that the Canute -360 is finally rolling off the
production line, and that we now have stocks here in Northampton, UK.

 

For those who don't quite know what a Canute is, it is primarily a braille
device mainly for reading *.BRF" files.  (That is, "Braille Ready Format")

 

What is so special is that it displays 9 lines of 40 braille cells.  Aside
from books, it is an ideal format for subjects such as mathematics and music
where ideally you want to see more than one line at a time.

 

We've no wish to bog the list down with questions, and so have started two
specific lists.

 

"canute" is intended for anyone who either has a Canute already, or who
wants to know more.

 

"canute-news" is intended ideally for all Canute owners to advise of any new
firmware, etc.. (This is a one way list only - you cannot post to it!)

 

To join, send an e-mail with the Subject "canute" or "canute-news" to either
or both to:

 

canute-requ...@freelists.org  

Or

canute-news-requ...@freelists.org 


 

Although travel can be difficult in the current situation, if you live
around Birmingham or Northampton, we may be able to arrange a demonstration.
Contact details in signature below.

 

I have certainly been double jabbed and had my booster shot.

 

All the best

 

George W F Bell

Managing Director

Duxbury UK Master Distributor

Techno-Vision Systems Ltd

76 Bunting Road Ind. Est.

NORTHAMPTON, NN2 6EE

United Kingdom.

 

Tel: +44 (0)160 479 2777

E-Mail: geo...@techno-vision.co.uk

Web: http://www.techno-vision.co.uk  

 

-- 
If you have any problems posting/replying to the Braillists Forum please email 
h...@braillists.org with a clear description of the issue and forward on any 
error messages you may have received.
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Braillists" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to braillists+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/braillists/005d01d7ec73%24bf36c1f0%243da445d0%24%40techno-vision.co.uk.

- End forwarded message -
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Re: [BRLTTY] Making brltty speak

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Many thanks for your response Halim.

I would really like to be able not to use pulse audio, but unfortunately
I am using GUI so I am not sure this is really an option.

Best wishes,

Sébastien.
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[BRLTTY] Making brltty speak

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dear all,

I'd like to try using brltty with speech-dispatcher. Currently, it seems
my system is configured to have each user run its own speech-dispatcher
that uses a per-user instance of pulse-audio for output.

Given that brltty runs as root, is it required that speech-dispatcher
and pulseaudio also run as root?

If somebody has hints about how to set this up on Debian I'd be
interested.

Thanks,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] [OT] Braille displays with firmware support for Unicode

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Many thanks for sharing your point of view Aura.
I definitely understand your concern.

I also would like to find a robust solution for working with my
favourite tools on the go.

I used Mario's one but found it a bit difficult to maintain in the long
run.

I know an other person on the list who is using a Pi Zero W in an Active
Star but with the regular Raspbian, which is perhaps a bit easier to
maintain but I always had difficulties to pair the Active Star.

To answer your quesiton about power. There is a compartment in the
Active Star that has been designed so that you can put a mobile phone in
it. A wire arrives in this compartment that is connected to the
ActiveStar's Battery. You can plug your Raspberry Pi Zero W to this
cable and then it will get its power from the battery of the braille
device.

If you consider using Android, you may have a look to Termux. Then you
would need to use only brltty as a screen reader.

I would be very interested to hear about experiments done by others in
this direction.

Best wishes,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] [OT] Braille displays with firmware support for Unicode

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dar Aura,

Have you considered, rather than looking for a device with the feature
you want, whether you couldn't find one that you could connect in
bluetooth to an Android phone where you may more likely be able to find
the features you would like?

Best wishes,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] The braillists forum and an article about reading in braille

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Thanks, Mario. I fully get your point. And it's not necessarily
ghettoish if it is mainstream appps that can be made speech and braille
aware, after all.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] The braillists forum and an article about reading in braille

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Thanks for your feedback, Mario.

Are you in a way saying that it would be helpful also for text
application to be able to export their structure somehow, as graphical
ones do? I guess the so-called widgets would be a bit different, may
there may be something to think about there...

But this wouldperhaps be defeated by the fact that text-mode
applications may be more diverse than graphical ones, in the sense that
graphical ones use one toolkit among a few, which is not so in
text-mode...

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] The braillists forum and an article about reading in braille

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Samuel Thibault (2021/08/30 18:56 +0200):
> Sébastien Hinderer, le lun. 30 août 2021 17:54:29 +0200, a ecrit:
> > Regarding the counting feature, I find it very clever! But then I'm
> > wondering, why not ocunting tabs directly?
> 
> The screen reader cannot actually "see" the tab characters, it only sees
> spaces.

Ah yes, this of course makes sense. Sorry.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] The braillists forum and an article about reading in braille

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Thanks a lot for your response, Brian! I find it nice that you are on
this list although you are seemingly not a brltty user. And I really
appreciate to know that another screen reader exists for text-mode
applications.
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Re: [BRLTTY] The braillists forum and an article about reading in braille

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hi Devin,

Woudln't it be okay to start by enabling braille in NVDA and coding with
both speech and braille together, and in an environment you are
otherwise familiar with? Ti would seem to me this would be a smoother
transition than the one you seem to have inmind.

Shérab.
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Re: [BRLTTY] The braillists forum and an article about reading in braille

[Sébastien Hinderer]

PS: Many thanks, Devin, for having explained how speech and sound can be
used to render indentation, I found that quite interesting!

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] The braillists forum and an article about reading in braille

[Sébastien Hinderer]

So, is yasr still under active development?

Regarding the counting feature, I find it very clever! But then I'm
wondering, why not ocunting tabs directly? Replacing them with dots,
which can appear in a code, might be misleading actually.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] The braillists forum and an article about reading in braille

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Many thanks, Brain, for your testimonial!

To be honest, when you describe how you work it gives me the feeling
that it would take me ages to do the same with speech that what I can do
with braille, but I guess all this is a matter of habbits and most
likely I am biased by mine.

Since you are using Vi I guess you do not use Emacspeak. So, which
speech system are you using? The one provided by brltty? Speakup? Do you
use Linux text consoles or graphical terminals? Do you use braille in
addition to speech when you program? And, in which language or languages
do you program, usually?

Best wishes,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] The braillists forum and an article about reading in braille

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dear Adrian,

My assumption is that, for you as well as for me, the keyword is
habbits. I guess that we both have the bias of our own habbits, which
makes us believe that the solution the know is the most appropriate one,
but perhaps it's just because we know it and then it talks only to us.

Still I agree that reading top is difficult.

For code formatting yes indentation matters, even when reading code in
braille, in my expericence. Still, I know that people manage to program
with just speech synthesis and I have really no idea how they do to deal
with indentation in that case: whether it's useful to them, how easy it
is to produce correctly indented code or to check that a code is
correctly indented, but for these two last things code formatting tools
may help. It remains thefact that it may be difficult with speech
synthesis to apprehend the indentation and thus the structure of the
code, but perhaps here it's me being biased by the lack of practisewith
speech synthesis.

Best wishes,

Sébastien.
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[BRLTTY] The braillists forum and an article about reading in braille

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dear all,

Recently I discovered the braillists forum. For those who don't already
know, it's a google group to which you can subscribe by sending an
e-mail to

braillists+subscr...@googlegroups.com

On this forum, somebody posted this link:

https://www.afb.org/aw/22/7/17623

I found it quite interesting and submitted the comment that you will
find below my signature.

Any comment is warmly welcome.

Best wishes,

Sébastien.

Hello,

Many thanks for the nice article.

Born blind, I am a daily user of braille displays. Well, since I am a conmputer 
scientist and also use braille at home, let's say that most of my life is spent 
in front of a braille display.

I would like to share several random remarks that came to me while reading the 
article:

1. the article does not mention those braille displays that can detect finger 
positions and adjust the auto-scroll accordingly rather than trying to guess 
when to do it based on the number of displayed character, which feels a bit 
more sensible.

2. One other point that I would find interesting to discuss is the ease of use: 
how comfortable it is to read, how quickly you become tired, things like that. 
For years, I wanted nothing else but 40-cells displays. I think it is because I 
am using 80x25 screen terminals in text mode, so with a 40-characters display 
you cover half of a line. However, lines of this kind of lenght, I noticed, 
require a lot of hand movements, while shorter lines, 28 characters long, say, 
as with printed braille, require less motions and are thus potentially less 
tiring. So I started considering having two kind of braille equipments, one 
with a 40 cells display to work with computers, and a shorter one dedicated to 
reading eBooks. Sadly, at the moment I read almost no eBook because I find it 
so tiring and long that it drains all my energy.

3. This brings me to my last remark which is actually a question. IN terms of 
efficiency, it feels like the ability to combine braille and speech synthesis 
could bring the best of both worlds, however depending on how it's done. I am 
dondering whether some research has already be undertaken in htat direction? As 
far as I know, no screen reader (in the wide sense of the word, i.e. a software 
giving access to the screen content, no matter how) has been designed with this 
question in mind. For all screen readers I know, their approach is asymetric. 
What I mean is that it feels to me either they have been designed primarily 
speech rendering, and then braille has been added later but is somehow 
considered a secondary, auxiliary rendering method. I think the big majority of 
the screen readers fall into this category and tha's why they have this name. 
Or it happened the other way around: a screen rendering system designed 
primarily for braille and where it's speech which had been added afterwards. 
The only example I am aware of here is brltty, which happens to be the one I am 
using constantly, with the addition of Orca when I need a GUI.

Many thanks for this article. I didn't realise there was research happening in 
this field but that quite pleases me.

Oh, and by the way: one other question I have is about typing properly. I 
didn't proof read all this text and you may notice it's full of typos. Is 
anybody aware of any method that would help a user of braillle to improve his 
typing, making it faster, less tiring and with less mistakes? The dedicated 
software seem quite visual. Of course, we have spell-checkers, but they will 
report the error only when you press the space bar, which might be too late. I 
mean, a sighted person will be able to fix a typo as soon as he/she makes it 
because the person has an immediate visual feedback, which may matter iin 
improving. So perhaps to compete, we blinds would need a more immediate 
feedback, too.

Dear Jagdish,

Many thanks for the very cool idea and all the work you have laready put
in it.

I am not a hardware expert so the only question I might have a response
to is the second.

I see too approaches.

1. Either you design a protocol suited for your device. That gives you
more flexibility but at the cost of writing a dedicated BRLTTY driver
that understands the protocol (not necessarily hard).

2. You have your hardware simulate an already supported one and thus
benefit from its already implemented driver. Theonly thing you'll have
to do is to find a protocol that is expressive enough for yoru needs.

Best wishes of success,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Brltty on nixos

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dave Mielke (2021/08/23 12:12 -0400):
> [quoted lines by Tage Johansson on 2021/08/23 at 17:19 +0200]
> 
> >On other systems, I've just been able to edit brltty.conf and enable the
> >speech driver I want. But on nixos, /etc/brltty.conf doesn't exist.
> 
> Then create it. It's an optional file. I don't know anything about
> nixos, so I also don't know why it doesn't provide /etc/brltty.conf.

It's a local distro that installs everything in your home.

You might find your brltty.conf somewhere under $HOME and that's
probably the one you should modify because it is likely the package has
been configured to use that one.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Help to create a new braille device

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dear Jagdish,

Many thanks for the very cool idea and all the work you have laready put
in it.

I am not a hardware expert so the only question I might have a response
to is the second.

I see too approaches.

1. Either you design a protocol suited for your device. That gives you
more flexibility but at the cost of writing a dedicated BRLTTY driver
that understands the protocol (not necessarily hard).

2. You have your hardware simulate an already supported one and thus
benefit from its already implemented driver. Theonly thing you'll have
to do is to find a protocol that is expressive enough for yoru needs.

Best wishes of success,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Low-level BrlAPI questions

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Samuel Thibault (2021/04/15 17:44 +0200):
> Dave Mielke, le jeu. 15 avril 2021 11:40:18 -0400, a ecrit:
> > [quoted lines by Samuel Thibault on 2021/04/15 at 17:07 +0200]
> > 
> > >Text size is in bytes, not characters. That is why strlen() is fine
> > >there. 
> > 
> > What about character sets like UTF-16, i.e. ones wherein a character might 
> > have an embedded NUL byte?
> 
> On Windows that's what brlapi_writeTextWin is there for.

Perhaps we should rename it to brlapi_writeTextUTF16 then, withthe due
deprecation logic? It'd feel more meaningful to me than a name talking
aobut the OS. What do you think, Samuel?

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Low-level BrlAPI questions

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dave Mielke (2021/04/15 06:40 -0400):
> [quoted lines by Samuel Thibault on 2021/04/15 at 12:24 +0200]
> 
> >> But this function cannot be called safely from languages that are Unicode
> >> only.
> >
> >As mentioned previously, we can add a brlapi_writeUtf8Text, just like we
> >already have brlapi_writeWText
> 
> If my understanding is correct, an unassigned text size means to call
> strlen(). To me, this is a bug. I think we shouldn't be in the
> business of ever assuming a single-byte character set these days. Of
> course there's old code, but it isn't a good thing to be allowing
> anymore. My personal opinion is that writeText() should be assuming
> UTF-8.

I'm guessing that this wouln't be backward compatible, meanign we would
have to increase protocol and ABI versions, should we want to go that
way.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Low-level BrlAPI questions

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Samuel Thibault (2021/04/15 12:37 +0200):
> Still. If the end-programmer produced a mask that isn't of the same
> size of the text, it'll very probably be due to a bug, and it's better
> reported than silently truncated.

I agree with Samuel.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Low-level BrlAPI questions

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello,

I think when we wrote BrlAPI (and later, too), we had the idea that a
higher level library could be developed on top of what exists to do the
kind of things you describe, Dave.

Whether that kind of facilities should be made available at such a
low-level, or whether it's fine to have an intermediate layer, that I
don't really know.
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Re: [BRLTTY] SIP client

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Many thanks for your testimonial, Jason!

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] SIP client

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dear John,

Many thanks for having taken the time to respond, it has been very
interesting to read your message!

John Covici (2021/04/11 07:08 -0400):
> This would probably be a major  overkill, but if you set up freeswitch
> and its port audio module, that would be completely command line and
> it would work.  You then could use fs_cli and the pa command to make
> calls and you wouold have a pbx on your computer as well, but it would
> be a lot of configuration to go through.

I was not aware of this solution at all, so big thanks for having
mentionned it!

It seems involved indeed, but why not.

Do youhave any clue on how this cwould compare to asterisk, hich seems
to also have an audio channel that lets you emit and receive calls from
the commandline?

Thanks,

Sébastien.
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[BRLTTY] SIP client

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dear all,

which SIP client would you recommend?

So far I tried linphone but was not very successful.

First, I have not been able to configure the SIP acocunt. I din't find a
way to do it through linphonec, and found that the graphical client was
not accessible.

Thus, a friend of mine created the config file for me through the
graphical interface, but even with that, I am now able to connect to
calls but the sound does not work.

Any suggestion to help with this or any suggestion of another client to
use, preferably iin text-mode, would be warmly appreciated.

Best wishes,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Accessible way to slow down music?

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Thanks a lot Didier! You are right, I can try that, too.

Best wishes,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Accessible way to slow down music?

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Yes John, many thanks for the mpv trick, it does the job, indeed!

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Accessible way to slow down music?

[Sébastien Hinderer]

I was referring to the program mentionned by Mario Lang in his e-mail...

Best wishes,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Accessible way to slow down music?

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Yes, thanks a lot Raphaël, I would have published the response on the
list because it works quite nicely!

Many thanks to Mario, too, I'll definitely give a try to your tool!

Best wishes,

Sébastien.
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[BRLTTY] Accessible way to slow down music?

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dear all,

I am looking for an accessible tool to slow down a song for which I
can't hear the notes correctly when it's playing at the normal speed.

I tried with mplayer but there, slowing down also decreases the
frequency so that's not working so well.

Is there a solution that would be accessible? Ideally a text-mode or
commandline oriented tool would be nice but if there is some graphical
tool which is accessible enough for this purpose that would also be
acceptable.

Many thanks in advance for any advice,

Sébastien.
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[BRLTTY] Developing Android / iPhone apps

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dear all,

Has someone on the list experience in developing apps for either Android
or iOS? Which tools do you use? A long time ago I tried XCode and found
it not very easy to use with VoiceOver on a Mac. I didn't try Android
Studio yet but, even if it is accessible, I'd prefer to be able to
develop purely from the command-line.

Any feedback welcome! Thanks!

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Clearing display contents with BrlAPI

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dear Aura,

I agree the behaviour you pointmay seem counter-intuitive but I think it
has its own coherence, though.

To clear the display you could use the writeDots method and pass it as
many zeros as the display's size.

I hope this helps,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] strange behavior udev and systemd

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dave Mielke (2020/11/26 10:54 -0500):
> >There is no way to automatically determine what the "right" BRLTTY
> >instance would be.  It depends on what the user wants.
> 
> This is something I've been thinking about from time to time. What we really
> need is for a given USB device to be associated with a gien brltty.conf file.
> Perhaps this could be inferred by the driver that's been specified via the 
> udev
> rules (i.e. via $BRLTTY_BRAILLE_DRIVER).

When I read Mario's message, I started to think and wonder whether we
couldn't somehow declare that a given bluetooth address and a USB id do
actually refer to the same device. would it then be possible that a
single brltty instance would keep running when, say, the device is
disconnectedfrom USB and if, later, a bluetooth device is detected whose
adress corresponds to the USB identifier, then the same instance of
brltty would take control of that bluetooth connection?

I fear this owuld make things difficult from a BRLTTY pointof view. From
an application point of view, though, it feels to me it would solve
theproblmees discussed in this thread.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] strange behavior udev and systemd

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Samuel Thibault (2020/11/26 09:31 +0100):
> Sébastien Hinderer, le jeu. 26 nov. 2020 08:39:11 +0100, a ecrit:
> > When several instances of BRLTTY are started, each instance that is
> > asked to run a BrlAPI server will do so and, by default, the servers
> > will be listening on ocnsecutive TCP ports.
> 
> consecutive?
> 
> I don't think there is anything in the brltty source to make them
> consecutive?  I would have rather thought that they all try to bind on
> the default TCP port, and the BRLTTY started last will wait for the
> previous BRLTTY to shutdown before being able to establish its BrlAPI
> server.

Oh! I'm sorry for my misleading message then!

I was sure at some point we had some code to look for the first free TCP
port starting with our base IANA port and choosing that one.

Really sorry.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] strange behavior udev and systemd

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello,

When several instances of BRLTTY are started, each instance that is
asked to run a BrlAPI server will do so and, by default, the servers
will be listening on ocnsecutive TCP ports.

Thus, yes, a client will, by default, connect to the first BrlAPI server
it finds. However, the BRLAPI_HOST environemnt variable can be used to
let clients connect to another BrlAPI server.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] strange behavior udev and systemd

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Okay, thanks for the explanations!
So everything will work nicely with 6.2, I guess.
Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] strange behavior udev and systemd

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dave Mielke (2020/11/25 11:41 -0500):
> [quoted lines by Sébastien Hinderer on 2020/11/25 at 17:25 +0100]
> 
> >If an instance is run as part of system boot, I would have guessed that
> >this instance run at boot would try to use the USB device, but I am
> >guessingI am wrong here?
> 
> Yes, and that shouldn't be done by default on a systemd-managed system. I can
> see, however, why that wouldn't be obvious.

So are you saying that a Linux distribution like Debian should actually
not start brltty as part of its boot process by default?

I'm not sure how it's done because my braille display is generally
plugged very early, or I don't have an easy way to see whether brltty is
running while the device is not connected, so perhaps it is already
working like this.

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] strange behavior udev and systemd

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello,

Out of curiosity...

Dave Mielke (2020/11/25 10:55 -0500):
> That isn't a problem. Well, it was a bit of a problem before the latest fix to
> the udev rules. Now it works exactly as it should. Connecting a braille device
> via USB starts up an instance of brltty for that device, and disconnecting the
> device stops that instance. Several instances, one for each device, can be
> concurrently running.

If an instance is run as part of system boot, I would have guessed that
this instance run at boot would try to use the USB device, but I am
guessingI am wrong here?

Thanks,

Sébastien.
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Re: [BRLTTY] Custom key bindings

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello Vincent,

It is okay to put rockers.kti directly under /etc/xdg/brltty. That's
what I am doing myself and I can report this works and I think it
already did with brltty 5.6.

So, for sure, there is no need to create other directories.

Beyond that I don't know, sorry. Depending on how brave you are, you may
try running brltty manually so increase its logging level, so that you
can figure out which files it reads. You could also achieve the same by
using strace.

Sébastien.
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