Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive jugs
Following on to Mark’s comments: 1. My wife is a Civil Engineer who specializes in water resources. She’s also an environmental engineer. I am thus supervised in these matters. 2. I don’t have as much faith in the government to do anything competently. If they are able to keep the system running, fine. 3. I would not directly mix water and electronics, though it is necessary to maintain the electrical properties of my central nervous system. The point of the original post was to highlight a glaring omission in most disaster plans that I’ve read. We can have all the radios and MREs and guns that we need, but we need water and it’s not guaranteed. 73! B > On Jul 18, 2016, at 8:32 AM, mark janzer via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org> wrote: > > As a civil engineer, I feel obligated to chime in on this: > > 1. Many MUD districts and regional Cities, after TS Allison and Hurricane > Ike, used recovery money to obtain and maintain portable emergency pumps and > portable generators (by acquisition or contract), so as not to disrupt > service for too long a period after a major storm event. > 2. Grey water (no fecal content) is either dishwater or treated effluent > (from a wastewater plant, WWTP). > 3. Many public golf courses are irrigated by treated effluent. > 4. Don't tap into purple colored pipe for a potable water source, it's > distributed grey water. > 5. We're drinking and bathing in recycled water from the upper watersheds > that include the Cities of Dallas and Fort Worth. > 6. All the urban bayous in our area have water flowing in them during even > the worst drought, this water is treated effluent from upstream WWTP's. > 7. This subject is way off topic, water and electronics don't mix well. > > Respectfully submitted, > Mark > K5MGJ > > > From: WILLIS COOKE via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org> > To: BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB <bvarc@bvarc.org> > Cc: WILLIS COOKE <wrco...@yahoo.com>; DAVID M GRAY JR <dmg...@mac.com>; Rick > Hiller <wn3...@gmail.com>; "jkli...@comcast.net" <jkli...@comcast.net> > Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 4:40 PM > Subject: Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source > of inexpensive jugs > > I think that grey-water is the polite term for dish water, but black-water is > the polite term for the rest of it. > > Cookie > > From: Rick Hiller via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org> > To: BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB <bvarc@bvarc.org> > Cc: Rick Hiller <wn3...@gmail.com>; DAVID M GRAY JR <dmg...@mac.com>; > jkli...@comcast.net > Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 3:48 PM > Subject: Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of > inexpensive jugs > > I wonder what the impolite term for grey water is? > > Sent from my eye doo hickey > > On Jul 17, 2016, at 3:21 PM, Jon Livingston kb0mnm via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org > <mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org>> wrote: > >> Folks, >> I think that it is safe to say that as men and usually of a 'boy scout >> mentality' that most ( not all ) are interested in 'survivalism' or being >> prepared. Ditto the ladies. >> That said, give a little thought to what happens to the other end of the >> water situation. The polite term for used water that can still have use is >> 'Gray-water", meaning that it might be suitable for watering plants- yet >> cannot be relied upon to be safe for drinking (potable). >> If you have thoughts about saving water that could be processed by >> distillation ( solar still, etc. ), consider cleaning and hanging on to the >> bottles which contain: >> Kitty Litter ( rinse well ), Bottled juice, etc. especially if these can be >> kept out of the sun- Algae forms w/o dillute bleach or other chemicals. >> >> on a separate note, only related to a recent repeater conversation: >> Why are we not sending folks to Mars? >> The answer is pretty simple: propulsion and life support. Visit the NASA >> educational facility nearby and they will tell you about both. >> Propulsion: They are working on ways to avoid previously used and >> inefficient systems. Ion-propulsion will probably be a candidate. The fuels >> previously used would have to be available in quantities greater than what >> the earth could hold ( let alone provide ) if used in the way done before. >> The big problem is that the weight of the fuel carried gets greater and >> greater for larger 'payloads', problematic -particularly when breaking the >> earth's gravity. >> Life Support: While we can support 'rebreathing' ( re-use of oxygen by >> recycling carbon dioxide chemically ), the process would hav
Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive jugs
As a civil engineer, I feel obligated to chime in on this: 1. Many MUD districts and regional Cities, after TS Allison and Hurricane Ike, used recovery money to obtain and maintain portable emergency pumps and portable generators (by acquisition or contract), so as not to disrupt service for too long a period after a major storm event. 2. Grey water (no fecal content) is either dishwater or treated effluent (from a wastewater plant, WWTP).3. Many public golf courses are irrigated by treated effluent.4. Don't tap into purple colored pipe for a potable water source, it's distributed grey water.5. We're drinking and bathing in recycled water from the upper watersheds that include the Cities of Dallas and Fort Worth.6. All the urban bayous in our area have water flowing in them during even the worst drought, this water is treated effluent from upstream WWTP's.7. This subject is way off topic, water and electronics don't mix well. Respectfully submitted,MarkK5MGJ From: WILLIS COOKE via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org> To: BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB <bvarc@bvarc.org> Cc: WILLIS COOKE <wrco...@yahoo.com>; DAVID M GRAY JR <dmg...@mac.com>; Rick Hiller <wn3...@gmail.com>; "jkli...@comcast.net" <jkli...@comcast.net> Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive jugs I think that grey-water is the polite term for dish water, but black-water is the polite term for the rest of it. Cookie From: Rick Hiller via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org> To: BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB <bvarc@bvarc.org> Cc: Rick Hiller <wn3...@gmail.com>; DAVID M GRAY JR <dmg...@mac.com>; jkli...@comcast.net Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive jugs I wonder what the impolite term for grey water is? Sent from my eye doo hickey On Jul 17, 2016, at 3:21 PM, Jon Livingston kb0mnm via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org> wrote: Folks, I think that it is safe to say that as men and usually of a 'boy scout mentality' that most ( not all ) are interested in 'survivalism' or being prepared. Ditto the ladies.That said, give a little thought to what happens to the other end of the water situation. The polite term for used water that can still have use is 'Gray-water", meaning that it might be suitable for watering plants- yet cannot be relied upon to be safe for drinking (potable). If you have thoughts about saving water that could be processed by distillation ( solar still, etc. ), consider cleaning and hanging on to the bottles which contain:Kitty Litter ( rinse well ), Bottled juice, etc. especially if these can be kept out of the sun- Algae forms w/o dillute bleach or other chemicals. on a separate note, only related to a recent repeater conversation:Why are we not sending folks to Mars?The answer is pretty simple: propulsion and life support. Visit the NASA educational facility nearby and they will tell you about both.Propulsion: They are working on ways to avoid previously used and inefficient systems. Ion-propulsion will probably be a candidate. The fuels previously used would have to be available in quantities greater than what the earth could hold ( let alone provide ) if used in the way done before. The big problem is that the weight of the fuel carried gets greater and greater for larger 'payloads', problematic -particularly when breaking the earth's gravity.Life Support: While we can support 'rebreathing' ( re-use of oxygen by recycling carbon dioxide chemically ), the process would have to be much more reliable before any one person would consider risking the use of re-breathing for a number of years. Our rockets ( now) are fast, yet Mars is far away. Same for water and food. 73 de KB0MNM- Jon- back to looking for work I want to survive also... From: "DAVID M GRAY JR via BVARC" <bvarc@bvarc.org> To: "BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB" <bvarc@bvarc.org> Cc: "DAVID M GRAY JR" <dmg...@mac.com> Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 11:55:17 AM Subject: Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive barrels Tractor Supply has a nice 500 gal poly tank for water. I explored the idea of keeping kerosene for cooking but charcoal smells a lot better. Canned goods go out of date pretty fast; dry beans,rice last a long time if you can keep bugs and critters away. David, K5HEC Sent from my iPad On Jul 17, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Bill Crowell, N4HPG via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org> wrote: All, When we do our disaster planning, we’re pretty good about having a power budget for radios. We might have a food budget, but few have a reasonable water budget. How many days can you go without municipal water? If your SHTF plan involves a lot of dried rice and beans, you need even MORE water
Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive jugs
we have a propane bbq in the back yard and a gas stove. they work great when power goes out. a generator can help for other needs. being prepared can make life a little bit more like normal. we also have a bunch of the freeze dried mountain house meals. a sterno type thing to heat the water to pour in or heat water on the stove and we are good. a bunch of canned foods can be heated on the stove as well. you can make life as simple or complex as you want. if a hurricane is coming, we fill up the bath tub for bathing and using the facilities. bottled water takes care of our drinking needs. easy, no mess, no fuss clean up afterwards. unless the sewers back up. oh well. hotel time. 73...bruce On 7/17/2016 8:17 PM, Bill via BVARC wrote: Back to canned goods going out of date, it’s a “best by” date so don’t toss without opening and checking first. When Ike came through we lost power for 7 days +/- and had all the neighbors over for a cook out and then found a children’s charity (The Mission of Yahweh) that didn’t lose power and took everything else out of the freezers to them. Bill - K5GJQ Habakkuk 3:17-18 *From:*BVARC [mailto:bvarc-boun...@bvarc.org] *On Behalf Of *Roy Storey via BVARC *Sent:* Sunday, July 17, 2016 8:00 PM *To:* BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB <bvarc@bvarc.org> *Cc:* Roy Storey <rstorey1...@gmail.com> *Subject:* Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive jugs What a crappy conversation! Roy Storey W5TKZ -- 73 On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Rick Hiller via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org <mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org>> wrote: Flushes bodies, at least in Arkansas... Sent from my eye doo hickey On Jul 17, 2016, at 5:20 PM, Rick Hiller <wn3...@gmail.com <mailto:wn3...@gmail.com>> wrote: And White Water Sent from my eye doo hickey On Jul 17, 2016, at 5:14 PM, Travis Burgess via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org <mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org>> wrote: ___ BVARC mailing list BVARC@bvarc.org <mailto:BVARC@bvarc.org> http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org ___ BVARC mailing list BVARC@bvarc.org http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org -- Bruce Paige, KK5DO AMSAT Director Contests and Awards AMSAT Board Alternate 2015-2016 ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT* Also live streaming MP3 at http://www.amsatnet.com Podcast at http://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News http://www.arrl.org AMSAT on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/amsat ___ BVARC mailing list BVARC@bvarc.org http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org
Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive jugs
Back to canned goods going out of date, it’s a “best by” date so don’t toss without opening and checking first. When Ike came through we lost power for 7 days +/- and had all the neighbors over for a cook out and then found a children’s charity (The Mission of Yahweh) that didn’t lose power and took everything else out of the freezers to them. Bill - K5GJQ Habakkuk 3:17-18 From: BVARC [mailto:bvarc-boun...@bvarc.org] On Behalf Of Roy Storey via BVARC Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 8:00 PM To: BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB <bvarc@bvarc.org> Cc: Roy Storey <rstorey1...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive jugs What a crappy conversation! Roy Storey W5TKZ -- 73 On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Rick Hiller via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org <mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org> > wrote: Flushes bodies, at least in Arkansas... Sent from my eye doo hickey On Jul 17, 2016, at 5:20 PM, Rick Hiller <wn3...@gmail.com <mailto:wn3...@gmail.com> > wrote: And White Water Sent from my eye doo hickey On Jul 17, 2016, at 5:14 PM, Travis Burgess via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org <mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org> > wrote: Use the gray water to flush the black water. Travis K5HTB - No trees were harmed in the production of this message, however, a great many electrons were terribly inconvenienced. _ From: BVARC <bvarc-boun...@bvarc.org <mailto:bvarc-boun...@bvarc.org> > on behalf of WILLIS COOKE via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org <mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org> > Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 4:40 PM To: BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB Cc: WILLIS COOKE; DAVID M GRAY JR; Rick Hiller; jkli...@comcast.net <mailto:jkli...@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive jugs I think that grey-water is the polite term for dish water, but black-water is the polite term for the rest of it. Cookie _ From: Rick Hiller via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org <mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org> > To: BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB <bvarc@bvarc.org <mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org> > Cc: Rick Hiller <wn3...@gmail.com <mailto:wn3...@gmail.com> >; DAVID M GRAY JR <dmg...@mac.com <mailto:dmg...@mac.com> >; jkli...@comcast.net <mailto:jkli...@comcast.net> Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive jugs I wonder what the impolite term for grey water is? Sent from my eye doo hickey On Jul 17, 2016, at 3:21 PM, Jon Livingston kb0mnm via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org <mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org> > wrote: Folks, I think that it is safe to say that as men and usually of a 'boy scout mentality' that most ( not all ) are interested in 'survivalism' or being prepared. Ditto the ladies. That said, give a little thought to what happens to the other end of the water situation. The polite term for used water that can still have use is 'Gray-water", meaning that it might be suitable for watering plants- yet cannot be relied upon to be safe for drinking (potable). If you have thoughts about saving water that could be processed by distillation ( solar still, etc. ), consider cleaning and hanging on to the bottles which contain: Kitty Litter ( rinse well ), Bottled juice, etc. especially if these can be kept out of the sun- Algae forms w/o dillute bleach or other chemicals. on a separate note, only related to a recent repeater conversation: Why are we not sending folks to Mars? The answer is pretty simple: propulsion and life support. Visit the NASA educational facility nearby and they will tell you about both. Propulsion: They are working on ways to avoid previously used and inefficient systems. Ion-propulsion will probably be a candidate. The fuels previously used would have to be available in quantities greater than what the earth could hold ( let alone provide ) if used in the way done before. The big problem is that the weight of the fuel carried gets greater and greater for larger 'payloads', problematic -particularly when breaking the earth's gravity. Life Support: While we can support 'rebreathing' ( re-use of oxygen by recycling carbon dioxide chemically ), the process would have to be much more reliable before any one person would consider risking the use of re-breathing for a number of years. Our rockets ( now) are fast, yet Mars is far away. Same for water and food. 73 de KB0MNM- Jon- back to looking for work I want to survive also... _ From: "DAVID M GRAY JR via BVARC" <bvarc@bvarc.org <mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org> > To: "BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB" <bvarc@bvarc.org <mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org> > Cc: "DAVID M GRAY JR" <dmg...@mac.com <mailto:dmg...
Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive jugs
What a crappy conversation! Roy Storey W5TKZ -- 73 On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Rick Hiller via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org> wrote: > Flushes bodies, at least in Arkansas... > > Sent from my eye doo hickey > > On Jul 17, 2016, at 5:20 PM, Rick Hiller <wn3...@gmail.com> wrote: > > And White Water > > Sent from my eye doo hickey > > On Jul 17, 2016, at 5:14 PM, Travis Burgess via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org> > wrote: > > Use the gray water to flush the black water. > > > Travis > > K5HTB > > > - > > No trees were harmed in the production of this message, however, a great > many electrons were > > terribly inconvenienced. > > > > -- > *From:* BVARC <bvarc-boun...@bvarc.org> on behalf of WILLIS COOKE via > BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org> > *Sent:* Sunday, July 17, 2016 4:40 PM > *To:* BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB > *Cc:* WILLIS COOKE; DAVID M GRAY JR; Rick Hiller; jkli...@comcast.net > *Subject:* Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source > of inexpensive jugs > > I think that grey-water is the polite term for dish water, but black-water > is the polite term for the rest of it. > > Cookie > > -- > *From:* Rick Hiller via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org> > *To:* BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB <bvarc@bvarc.org> > *Cc:* Rick Hiller <wn3...@gmail.com>; DAVID M GRAY JR <dmg...@mac.com>; > jkli...@comcast.net > *Sent:* Sunday, July 17, 2016 3:48 PM > *Subject:* Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source > of inexpensive jugs > > I wonder what the impolite term for grey water is? > > Sent from my eye doo hickey > > On Jul 17, 2016, at 3:21 PM, Jon Livingston kb0mnm via BVARC < > bvarc@bvarc.org> wrote: > > Folks, > I think that it is safe to say that as men and usually of a 'boy scout > mentality' that most ( not all ) are interested in 'survivalism' or being > prepared. Ditto the ladies. > That said, give a little thought to what happens to the other end of the > water situation. The polite term for used water that can still have use is > 'Gray-water", meaning that it might be suitable for watering plants- yet > cannot be relied upon to be safe for drinking (potable). > If you have thoughts about saving water that could be processed by > distillation ( solar still, etc. ), consider cleaning and hanging on to the > bottles which contain: > Kitty Litter ( rinse well ), Bottled juice, etc. especially if these can > be kept out of the sun- Algae forms w/o dillute bleach or other chemicals. > > on a separate note, only related to a recent repeater conversation: > Why are we not sending folks to Mars? > The answer is pretty simple: propulsion and life support. Visit the NASA > educational facility nearby and they will tell you about both. > Propulsion: They are working on ways to avoid previously used and > inefficient systems. Ion-propulsion will probably be a candidate. The fuels > previously used would have to be available in quantities greater than what > the earth could hold ( let alone provide ) if used in the way done before. > The big problem is that the weight of the fuel carried gets greater and > greater for larger 'payloads', problematic -particularly when breaking the > earth's gravity. > Life Support: While we can support 'rebreathing' ( re-use of oxygen by > recycling carbon dioxide chemically ), the process would have to be much > more reliable before any one person would consider risking the use of > re-breathing for a number of years. Our rockets ( now) are fast, yet Mars > is far away. Same for water and food. > > 73 de KB0MNM- Jon- back to looking for work I want to survive also... > > > -- > *From: *"DAVID M GRAY JR via BVARC" <bvarc@bvarc.org> > *To: *"BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB" <bvarc@bvarc.org> > *Cc: *"DAVID M GRAY JR" <dmg...@mac.com> > *Sent: *Sunday, July 17, 2016 11:55:17 AM > *Subject: *Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source > of inexpensive barrels > > Tractor Supply has a nice 500 gal poly tank for water. > I explored the idea of keeping kerosene for cooking but charcoal smells a > lot better. > Canned goods go out of date pretty fast; dry beans,rice last a long time > if you can keep bugs and critters away. > David, K5HEC > Sent from my iPad > > On Jul 17, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Bill Crowell, N4HPG via BVARC < > bvarc@bvarc.org> wrote: > > All, > > When we do our disaster planning, we’re pretty good about having a power > budget for radios. We might have a foo
Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive jugs
Flushes bodies, at least in Arkansas... Sent from my eye doo hickey > On Jul 17, 2016, at 5:20 PM, Rick Hiller <wn3...@gmail.com> wrote: > > And White Water > > Sent from my eye doo hickey > >> On Jul 17, 2016, at 5:14 PM, Travis Burgess via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org> >> wrote: >> >> Use the gray water to flush the black water. >> >> >> Travis >> >> K5HTB >> >> >> - >> >> No trees were harmed in the production of this message, however, a great >> many electrons were >> >> terribly inconvenienced. >> >> >> >> >> >> From: BVARC <bvarc-boun...@bvarc.org> on behalf of WILLIS COOKE via BVARC >> <bvarc@bvarc.org> >> Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 4:40 PM >> To: BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB >> Cc: WILLIS COOKE; DAVID M GRAY JR; Rick Hiller; jkli...@comcast.net >> Subject: Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of >> inexpensive jugs >> >> I think that grey-water is the polite term for dish water, but black-water >> is the polite term for the rest of it. >> >> Cookie >> >> From: Rick Hiller via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org> >> To: BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB <bvarc@bvarc.org> >> Cc: Rick Hiller <wn3...@gmail.com>; DAVID M GRAY JR <dmg...@mac.com>; >> jkli...@comcast.net >> Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 3:48 PM >> Subject: Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of >> inexpensive jugs >> >> I wonder what the impolite term for grey water is? >> >> Sent from my eye doo hickey >> >> On Jul 17, 2016, at 3:21 PM, Jon Livingston kb0mnm via BVARC >> <bvarc@bvarc.org> wrote: >> >>> Folks, >>> I think that it is safe to say that as men and usually of a 'boy scout >>> mentality' that most ( not all ) are interested in 'survivalism' or being >>> prepared. Ditto the ladies. >>> That said, give a little thought to what happens to the other end of the >>> water situation. The polite term for used water that can still have use is >>> 'Gray-water", meaning that it might be suitable for watering plants- yet >>> cannot be relied upon to be safe for drinking (potable). >>> If you have thoughts about saving water that could be processed by >>> distillation ( solar still, etc. ), consider cleaning and hanging on to the >>> bottles which contain: >>> Kitty Litter ( rinse well ), Bottled juice, etc. especially if these can be >>> kept out of the sun- Algae forms w/o dillute bleach or other chemicals. >>> >>> on a separate note, only related to a recent repeater conversation: >>> Why are we not sending folks to Mars? >>> The answer is pretty simple: propulsion and life support. Visit the NASA >>> educational facility nearby and they will tell you about both. >>> Propulsion: They are working on ways to avoid previously used and >>> inefficient systems. Ion-propulsion will probably be a candidate. The fuels >>> previously used would have to be available in quantities greater than what >>> the earth could hold ( let alone provide ) if used in the way done before. >>> The big problem is that the weight of the fuel carried gets greater and >>> greater for larger 'payloads', problematic -particularly when breaking the >>> earth's gravity. >>> Life Support: While we can support 'rebreathing' ( re-use of oxygen by >>> recycling carbon dioxide chemically ), the process would have to be much >>> more reliable before any one person would consider risking the use of >>> re-breathing for a number of years. Our rockets ( now) are fast, yet Mars >>> is far away. Same for water and food. >>> >>> 73 de KB0MNM- Jon- back to looking for work I want to survive also... >>> >>> >>> From: "DAVID M GRAY JR via BVARC" <bvarc@bvarc.org> >>> To: "BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB" <bvarc@bvarc.org> >>> Cc: "DAVID M GRAY JR" <dmg...@mac.com> >>> Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 11:55:17 AM >>> Subject: Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of >>> inexpensive barrels >>> >>> Tractor Supply has a nice 500 gal poly tank for water. >>> I explored the idea of keeping kerosene for cooking but charcoal smells a >>> lot better. >>> Canned goods go out of date pretty fast; dry beans,rice last a long time &
Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive jugs
Use the gray water to flush the black water. Travis K5HTB - No trees were harmed in the production of this message, however, a great many electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From: BVARC <bvarc-boun...@bvarc.org> on behalf of WILLIS COOKE via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org> Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 4:40 PM To: BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB Cc: WILLIS COOKE; DAVID M GRAY JR; Rick Hiller; jkli...@comcast.net Subject: Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive jugs I think that grey-water is the polite term for dish water, but black-water is the polite term for the rest of it. Cookie From: Rick Hiller via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org> To: BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB <bvarc@bvarc.org> Cc: Rick Hiller <wn3...@gmail.com>; DAVID M GRAY JR <dmg...@mac.com>; jkli...@comcast.net Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive jugs I wonder what the impolite term for grey water is? Sent from my eye doo hickey On Jul 17, 2016, at 3:21 PM, Jon Livingston kb0mnm via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org<mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org>> wrote: Folks, I think that it is safe to say that as men and usually of a 'boy scout mentality' that most ( not all ) are interested in 'survivalism' or being prepared. Ditto the ladies. That said, give a little thought to what happens to the other end of the water situation. The polite term for used water that can still have use is 'Gray-water", meaning that it might be suitable for watering plants- yet cannot be relied upon to be safe for drinking (potable). If you have thoughts about saving water that could be processed by distillation ( solar still, etc. ), consider cleaning and hanging on to the bottles which contain: Kitty Litter ( rinse well ), Bottled juice, etc. especially if these can be kept out of the sun- Algae forms w/o dillute bleach or other chemicals. on a separate note, only related to a recent repeater conversation: Why are we not sending folks to Mars? The answer is pretty simple: propulsion and life support. Visit the NASA educational facility nearby and they will tell you about both. Propulsion: They are working on ways to avoid previously used and inefficient systems. Ion-propulsion will probably be a candidate. The fuels previously used would have to be available in quantities greater than what the earth could hold ( let alone provide ) if used in the way done before. The big problem is that the weight of the fuel carried gets greater and greater for larger 'payloads', problematic -particularly when breaking the earth's gravity. Life Support: While we can support 'rebreathing' ( re-use of oxygen by recycling carbon dioxide chemically ), the process would have to be much more reliable before any one person would consider risking the use of re-breathing for a number of years. Our rockets ( now) are fast, yet Mars is far away. Same for water and food. 73 de KB0MNM- Jon- back to looking for work I want to survive also... From: "DAVID M GRAY JR via BVARC" <bvarc@bvarc.org<mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org>> To: "BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB" <bvarc@bvarc.org<mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org>> Cc: "DAVID M GRAY JR" <dmg...@mac.com<mailto:dmg...@mac.com>> Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 11:55:17 AM Subject: Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive barrels Tractor Supply has a nice 500 gal poly tank for water. I explored the idea of keeping kerosene for cooking but charcoal smells a lot better. Canned goods go out of date pretty fast; dry beans,rice last a long time if you can keep bugs and critters away. David, K5HEC Sent from my iPad On Jul 17, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Bill Crowell, N4HPG via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org<mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org>> wrote: All, When we do our disaster planning, we’re pretty good about having a power budget for radios. We might have a food budget, but few have a reasonable water budget. How many days can you go without municipal water? If your SHTF plan involves a lot of dried rice and beans, you need even MORE water. The municipal water for our neighborhood is supplied by a pumping station on FM518 with a ground-mounted electric pump. If that pump fails or loses power, we don’t have water. I’ve recently acquired a couple of 55-gallon, food-grade barrels from a very nice seller on eBay. His website is houstonbarrels.com<http://houstonbarrels.com/>. Mine were used to transport vinegar. I’ve just cleaned them and sanitized with bleach and will be adding taps so that gravity can do the pouring. Having 110 gallons of water is a really good thing. NOW a couple of things: 1. It is unlawful for Mike to sell you food barrels for
Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive jugs
I think that grey-water is the polite term for dish water, but black-water is the polite term for the rest of it. Cookie From: Rick Hiller via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org> To: BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB <bvarc@bvarc.org> Cc: Rick Hiller <wn3...@gmail.com>; DAVID M GRAY JR <dmg...@mac.com>; jkli...@comcast.net Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive jugs I wonder what the impolite term for grey water is? Sent from my eye doo hickey On Jul 17, 2016, at 3:21 PM, Jon Livingston kb0mnm via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org> wrote: Folks, I think that it is safe to say that as men and usually of a 'boy scout mentality' that most ( not all ) are interested in 'survivalism' or being prepared. Ditto the ladies.That said, give a little thought to what happens to the other end of the water situation. The polite term for used water that can still have use is 'Gray-water", meaning that it might be suitable for watering plants- yet cannot be relied upon to be safe for drinking (potable). If you have thoughts about saving water that could be processed by distillation ( solar still, etc. ), consider cleaning and hanging on to the bottles which contain:Kitty Litter ( rinse well ), Bottled juice, etc. especially if these can be kept out of the sun- Algae forms w/o dillute bleach or other chemicals. on a separate note, only related to a recent repeater conversation:Why are we not sending folks to Mars?The answer is pretty simple: propulsion and life support. Visit the NASA educational facility nearby and they will tell you about both.Propulsion: They are working on ways to avoid previously used and inefficient systems. Ion-propulsion will probably be a candidate. The fuels previously used would have to be available in quantities greater than what the earth could hold ( let alone provide ) if used in the way done before. The big problem is that the weight of the fuel carried gets greater and greater for larger 'payloads', problematic -particularly when breaking the earth's gravity.Life Support: While we can support 'rebreathing' ( re-use of oxygen by recycling carbon dioxide chemically ), the process would have to be much more reliable before any one person would consider risking the use of re-breathing for a number of years. Our rockets ( now) are fast, yet Mars is far away. Same for water and food. 73 de KB0MNM- Jon- back to looking for work I want to survive also... From: "DAVID M GRAY JR via BVARC" <bvarc@bvarc.org> To: "BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB" <bvarc@bvarc.org> Cc: "DAVID M GRAY JR" <dmg...@mac.com> Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 11:55:17 AM Subject: Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive barrels Tractor Supply has a nice 500 gal poly tank for water. I explored the idea of keeping kerosene for cooking but charcoal smells a lot better. Canned goods go out of date pretty fast; dry beans,rice last a long time if you can keep bugs and critters away. David, K5HEC Sent from my iPad On Jul 17, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Bill Crowell, N4HPG via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org> wrote: All, When we do our disaster planning, we’re pretty good about having a power budget for radios. We might have a food budget, but few have a reasonable water budget. How many days can you go without municipal water? If your SHTF plan involves a lot of dried rice and beans, you need even MORE water. The municipal water for our neighborhood is supplied by a pumping station on FM518 with a ground-mounted electric pump. If that pump fails or loses power, we don’t have water. I’ve recently acquired a couple of 55-gallon, food-grade barrels from a very nice seller on eBay. His website is houstonbarrels.com. Mine were used to transport vinegar. I’ve just cleaned them and sanitized with bleach and will be adding taps so that gravity can do the pouring. Having 110 gallons of water is a really good thing. NOW a couple of things:1. It is unlawful for Mike to sell you food barrels for potable water. But, he won’t follow you home to see what you’re going to use them for. I just said I want them for “fluid storage”. 2. If you do intend to store potable water, it is imperative that you do so properly as bad water can make you very ill. I use some bleach. 73 Bill Crowell, N4HPGPearland, txn4...@comcast.neti prefer to live a life of galvanic isolation. ___ BVARC mailing list BVARC@bvarc.org http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org ___ BVARC mailing list BVARC@bvarc.org http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org ___ BVARC mailing list BVARC@bvarc.org http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org
Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive jugs
That would be sewage. 73, Ron, K5HM <mailto:k5hm@gmail.com> k5hm@gmail.com <http://www.qrz.com/db/k5hm> www.qrz.com/db/k5hm Excelsior! From: BVARC [mailto:bvarc-boun...@bvarc.org] On Behalf Of Rick Hiller via BVARC Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 3:49 PM To: BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB <bvarc@bvarc.org> Cc: Rick Hiller <wn3...@gmail.com>; DAVID M GRAY JR <dmg...@mac.com>; jkli...@comcast.net Subject: Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive jugs I wonder what the impolite term for grey water is? Sent from my eye doo hickey On Jul 17, 2016, at 3:21 PM, Jon Livingston kb0mnm via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org <mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org> > wrote: Folks, I think that it is safe to say that as men and usually of a 'boy scout mentality' that most ( not all ) are interested in 'survivalism' or being prepared. Ditto the ladies. That said, give a little thought to what happens to the other end of the water situation. The polite term for used water that can still have use is 'Gray-water", meaning that it might be suitable for watering plants- yet cannot be relied upon to be safe for drinking (potable). If you have thoughts about saving water that could be processed by distillation ( solar still, etc. ), consider cleaning and hanging on to the bottles which contain: Kitty Litter ( rinse well ), Bottled juice, etc. especially if these can be kept out of the sun- Algae forms w/o dillute bleach or other chemicals. on a separate note, only related to a recent repeater conversation: Why are we not sending folks to Mars? The answer is pretty simple: propulsion and life support. Visit the NASA educational facility nearby and they will tell you about both. Propulsion: They are working on ways to avoid previously used and inefficient systems. Ion-propulsion will probably be a candidate. The fuels previously used would have to be available in quantities greater than what the earth could hold ( let alone provide ) if used in the way done before. The big problem is that the weight of the fuel carried gets greater and greater for larger 'payloads', problematic -particularly when breaking the earth's gravity. Life Support: While we can support 'rebreathing' ( re-use of oxygen by recycling carbon dioxide chemically ), the process would have to be much more reliable before any one person would consider risking the use of re-breathing for a number of years. Our rockets ( now) are fast, yet Mars is far away. Same for water and food. 73 de KB0MNM- Jon- back to looking for work I want to survive also... _ From: "DAVID M GRAY JR via BVARC" <bvarc@bvarc.org <mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org> > To: "BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB" <bvarc@bvarc.org <mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org> > Cc: "DAVID M GRAY JR" <dmg...@mac.com <mailto:dmg...@mac.com> > Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 11:55:17 AM Subject: Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive barrels Tractor Supply has a nice 500 gal poly tank for water. I explored the idea of keeping kerosene for cooking but charcoal smells a lot better. Canned goods go out of date pretty fast; dry beans,rice last a long time if you can keep bugs and critters away. David, K5HEC Sent from my iPad On Jul 17, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Bill Crowell, N4HPG via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org <mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org> > wrote: All, When we do our disaster planning, we’re pretty good about having a power budget for radios. We might have a food budget, but few have a reasonable water budget. How many days can you go without municipal water? If your SHTF plan involves a lot of dried rice and beans, you need even MORE water. The municipal water for our neighborhood is supplied by a pumping station on FM518 with a ground-mounted electric pump. If that pump fails or loses power, we don’t have water. I’ve recently acquired a couple of 55-gallon, food-grade barrels from a very nice seller on eBay. His website is houstonbarrels.com <http://houstonbarrels.com> . Mine were used to transport vinegar. I’ve just cleaned them and sanitized with bleach and will be adding taps so that gravity can do the pouring. Having 110 gallons of water is a really good thing. NOW a couple of things: 1. It is unlawful for Mike to sell you food barrels for potable water. But, he won’t follow you home to see what you’re going to use them for. I just said I want them for “fluid storage”. 2. If you do intend to store potable water, it is imperative that you do so properly as bad water can make you very ill. I use some bleach. 73 Bill Crowell, N4HPG Pearland, TX n4...@comcast.net <mailto:n4...@comcast.net> I prefer to live a life of galvanic isolation. __
Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive jugs
We are now Way Off Topic. 73, Ron, K5HM <mailto:k5hm@gmail.com> k5hm@gmail.com <http://www.qrz.com/db/k5hm> www.qrz.com/db/k5hm Excelsior! From: BVARC [mailto:bvarc-boun...@bvarc.org] On Behalf Of Jon Livingston kb0mnm via BVARC Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 3:21 PM To: BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB <bvarc@bvarc.org> Cc: jkli...@comcast.net; DAVID M GRAY JR <dmg...@mac.com> Subject: Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive jugs Folks, I think that it is safe to say that as men and usually of a 'boy scout mentality' that most ( not all ) are interested in 'survivalism' or being prepared. Ditto the ladies. That said, give a little thought to what happens to the other end of the water situation. The polite term for used water that can still have use is 'Gray-water", meaning that it might be suitable for watering plants- yet cannot be relied upon to be safe for drinking (potable). If you have thoughts about saving water that could be processed by distillation ( solar still, etc. ), consider cleaning and hanging on to the bottles which contain: Kitty Litter ( rinse well ), Bottled juice, etc. especially if these can be kept out of the sun- Algae forms w/o dillute bleach or other chemicals. on a separate note, only related to a recent repeater conversation: Why are we not sending folks to Mars? The answer is pretty simple: propulsion and life support. Visit the NASA educational facility nearby and they will tell you about both. Propulsion: They are working on ways to avoid previously used and inefficient systems. Ion-propulsion will probably be a candidate. The fuels previously used would have to be available in quantities greater than what the earth could hold ( let alone provide ) if used in the way done before. The big problem is that the weight of the fuel carried gets greater and greater for larger 'payloads', problematic -particularly when breaking the earth's gravity. Life Support: While we can support 'rebreathing' ( re-use of oxygen by recycling carbon dioxide chemically ), the process would have to be much more reliable before any one person would consider risking the use of re-breathing for a number of years. Our rockets ( now) are fast, yet Mars is far away. Same for water and food. 73 de KB0MNM- Jon- back to looking for work I want to survive also... _ From: "DAVID M GRAY JR via BVARC" <bvarc@bvarc.org <mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org> > To: "BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB" <bvarc@bvarc.org <mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org> > Cc: "DAVID M GRAY JR" <dmg...@mac.com <mailto:dmg...@mac.com> > Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 11:55:17 AM Subject: Re: [BVARC] Slightly Off Topic - SHTF - Water Budget - source of inexpensive barrels Tractor Supply has a nice 500 gal poly tank for water. I explored the idea of keeping kerosene for cooking but charcoal smells a lot better. Canned goods go out of date pretty fast; dry beans,rice last a long time if you can keep bugs and critters away. David, K5HEC Sent from my iPad On Jul 17, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Bill Crowell, N4HPG via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org <mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org> > wrote: All, When we do our disaster planning, we’re pretty good about having a power budget for radios. We might have a food budget, but few have a reasonable water budget. How many days can you go without municipal water? If your SHTF plan involves a lot of dried rice and beans, you need even MORE water. The municipal water for our neighborhood is supplied by a pumping station on FM518 with a ground-mounted electric pump. If that pump fails or loses power, we don’t have water. I’ve recently acquired a couple of 55-gallon, food-grade barrels from a very nice seller on eBay. His website is houstonbarrels.com <http://houstonbarrels.com> . Mine were used to transport vinegar. I’ve just cleaned them and sanitized with bleach and will be adding taps so that gravity can do the pouring. Having 110 gallons of water is a really good thing. NOW a couple of things: 1. It is unlawful for Mike to sell you food barrels for potable water. But, he won’t follow you home to see what you’re going to use them for. I just said I want them for “fluid storage”. 2. If you do intend to store potable water, it is imperative that you do so properly as bad water can make you very ill. I use some bleach. 73 Bill Crowell, N4HPG Pearland, TX n4...@comcast.net <mailto:n4...@comcast.net> I prefer to live a life of galvanic isolation. ___ BVARC mailing list BVARC@bvarc.org <mailto:BVARC@bvarc.org> http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org ___ BVARC mailing list BVARC@bvarc.org <mailto:BVARC@bvarc.org>
