Re: [Callers] tips for teaching dancing the "other" role?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Tue, Jul 05, 2016, Susan Pleck via Callers wrote:
>
> I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this
> Saturday on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching
> roles. Not having done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts
> or advice about what this should include. For the gender-free
> aspect, I'm not sure there's much to discuss, really; ir'd be more
> just giving dancers a chance to practice responding to different
> terms. For dancing the other role, though, what points of emphasis
> do you think would be most useful? Two that come to mind are swing
> positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where the
> actions of the two roles are different.

Depending on what kind of group you have, it might be easier to teach
them "from scratch".  Obviously, you could go a lot faster with
experienced dancers, but starting fresh -- and telling them they're
starting over -- might put them into a more accepting mindset and give
you the opportunity to correct any flaws in their previous dancing.

I know that I for a long time was using a poor left-hand shoulder hold
for raven swinging (until Kelsey corrected me).
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] medley

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

[the message I'm responding to was sent privately, I got permission to
respond publicly]

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016, Rod and Chris Krehbiel wrote:
> On Sunday, April 17, 2016 10:12 AM, Aahz Maruch via Callers 
>  wrote:
>>  On Sun, Apr 17, 2016, Laur via Callers wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm debating if 6 or 8 times thru the dances during a medley make more
>>> sense. I've gone back and forth on this for years. Thoughts?
>> 
>> That depends on your goal.  I'm hearing-impaired, I dislike medleys in
>> the first place, they combine the worst of contra and square dancing.
>> For me, more times through is better, gives me more chance to dance
>> trance.
>
> Since I have a goal of combining the BEST of contra and square dance,
> I'm intrigued by your comment that medleys combine the worst of contra
> and square dance. Could you expand and explain?

The short version is that contra dance callers on average enunciate less
clearly than square dance callers, contra calling in general assumes that
they're calling under the music rather than over the music the way square
dance callers do (or calling when no music is playing -- the
walkthrough), sound engineering in contra halls emphasizes the music,
contra dancers have much less training in responding to live calling, and
contra vocabulary/grammar has less structure than square dance.

Therefore -- and particularly for hearing-impaired people -- contra
medleys represent a challenge that almost always combines the worst of
square dance (live calling) with the worst of contra (poor ability to
hear the calling).

Obviously, it would be possible to combine the best of contra and square
dance, but WRT hearing impairments, it would pretty much need to be
approached from the square dance side (i.e. focusing on the voice and
then working to get the dancers to follow the musical phrasing the way
contra dancers do).
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] medley

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016, Laur via Callers wrote:
>
> I'm debating if 6 or 8 times thru the dances during a medley make more
> sense. I've gone back and forth on this for years. Thoughts?

That depends on your goal.  I'm hearing-impaired, I dislike medleys in
the first place, they combine the worst of contra and square dancing.
For me, more times through is better, gives me more chance to dance
trance.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] here it is - sorry

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Mon, Apr 04, 2016, Michael Fuerst via Callers wrote:
> Ron Blechner:
>>
>> 3. That perhaps the use of "gypsy" as a term isn't as bad as non-Roma
>> self-identitying as "dance gypsies". Roma wander because they are
>> persecuted or can't find work. When we talk about "dance gypsies"
>> beig wandering from place to place, we're comparing our having fun
>> traveling to various dances to the widespread persecution of an
>> ethnicity (the worst being the Holocaust).
> 
> Maybe you do.  No one else uses such bizarre logic. 

You happen to be wrong about that.  Any time you're tempted to use
"nobody" or "everyone" when talking about people, you're almost certainly
wrong.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Favorite Triplet ?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Wed, Mar 16, 2016, Claire Takemori via Callers wrote:
> 
> I'm wondering if you have a favorite Triplet that would work for a
> very small but experienced contra dance with just 6 dancers left after
> the break?  Ideally more dancing together and less casting down/back,
> etc.

This isn't a contra (it's in Playford), but one of my favorites is
Black Nag:

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/dance/Black_Nag.html

For me, the three-person hey feels very different from the normal contra
four-person hey.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] This dance or something like it?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Wed, Mar 23, 2016, Ron Blechner via Callers wrote:
>
> A1. Gents DSD 1x (6)
>NS (10)
> A2. Circle L 3/4 (6)
>PS (10)

Not thrilled.  Make each figure eight beats and I'm happy.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Simple Revolving door dances?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016, Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers wrote:
>
> Anyone have any beginner or intermediate revolving door dances?

What's a revolving door dance?  (Yes, I did try searching.)
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Calling to a square dance crowd

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016, Joe Micheals wrote:
>
> I have often thought that contra and round dancing had in common a
> person who cues/prompts ahead of the phrase of music.  MWS dancers who
> Round dancer would be able to relate to that...

That's what I would think/expect, but I've seen plenty of round dancers
who don't seem to get the concept of moving to the beat when square
dancing (I've only seen round dancing at square dances, so they're all
also square dancers).

It probably relates somewhat to what some MWSD callers derisively name
"pattern walking": people who learn a concept in one context are not
able to easily translate that into another context.  For these people,
R&L Thru as normal couples is completely different from sashayed R&L
Thru, it's two different calls that happen to be named the same.

My take is that because of the need to prime muscle memory, almost
everyone is a pattern walker at some level (e.g. many/most MWSD people
who gender swap agree that Allemande Left is one of the more difficult
calls -- despite being technically gender-neutral, you normally turn left
as a man and right as a woman to find the person you're allemanding, and
that's a difficult muscle memory to prime).
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Calling to a square dance crowd

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016, Jerome Grisanti via Callers wrote:
> 
> One other thing you might encounter is different interpretations of
> language and timing. So for example I've seen MWSD groups perform a
> "do-si-do" as a four-count swing rather than an 8-count back-to-back. And
> I've seen chains take six counts, with the other two counts spent wondering
> why the caller hasn't prompted the next move already.

These are *not* standard MWSD timings.  In fact, the official timing for
dosado is six beats (eight from static square), and I got into an
argument with an MWSD caller a few years back when he claimed that it
was, is, and always shall be eight and only eight beats for dosado.  Then
he was flummoxed when I pulled out my smartphone and showed him that
CALLERLAB disagreed with him.

(Some of y'all might guess exactly which caller I'm referring to by the
way I'm phrasing this. ;-)

Similarly, I've seen instructors at caller schools beating on callers who
fail to properly give the dancers enough time for "up to the middle and
back".

OTOH, it's sadly true that (as other posts in this thread have noted)
square dancers and callers mostly don't pay much attention to phrasing.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Calling to a square dance crowd

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

Mostly violent agreement with Chris with a few tweaks, expansions, and
corrections:

On Sun, Feb 21, 2016, Chris Page via Callers wrote:
> 
> -Many people will likely keep the same partner throughout the evening.

This varies a lot depending on what kind of club it is.  

> -The expected flow of the evening is very different -- typically they're
> used to doing two dances with the same partner of about 6-10 (?) minutes,
> and then a rest break. Potentially involving snacks. Rinse and repeat.

It's not really two dances, not the way MWSD people think about it.  A
"tip" (a single dance) is broken up into two chunks with two different
pieces of music.  The first part (patter) is typically a more steady
piece of music, with an emphasis on choregraphy.  That lasts anywhere
from six to twelve minutes, usually about eight.

The second part is a "singing call" that is based on a piece of popular
or traditional music (my repertoire includes "All About That Bass",
"Ain't Misbehavin'", "Do Wah Diddy", and "A Friend Like Me" from
Aladdin).  The command words for the square dance are mixed in with the
words from the original song, but the music is almost always redone for
square dancing and will sound at least a bit weird.  A singing call lasts
about four minutes and is generally progressive (moving the "ladies"
around the square -- and yes, MWSD is more gendered than contra).

Between the two parts of a tip, a square usually rotates a quarter
clockwise ("Stir The Bucket"); often these days the caller uses a tricky
bit of choreography to reotate the dancers.

I actually use two different pieces of patter music here (because they
wanted a longer-than-usual tip at 15 minutes), but otherwise this shows
a newbie caller doing an okay job of introducing square dance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFBy1EGmnic

Some clubs have music during the break, usually a line dance or a round
dance (or just incidental music):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round_dance

> -Be very careful about too much consecutive clockwise motion.

Very yes.  R&L Thru, Ladies Chain, and Star Left are your friends here.

> -They're really not used to hearing the phrase of the music.

Really really not used to it -- even the ones who can manage line dancing
and/or couple dancing.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] yet another gypsy substitute (YAGS)

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Fri, Feb 05, 2016, Jonathan Sivier via Callers wrote:
>
> I just had a thought for another possible substitute if we need to
> replace the term "gypsy".  This would be "vis-a-vis" (face to face).  I like
> this since it is in some sense similar to dos-a-dos (back to back) and makes
> them complimentary figures.  I think it suggests the importance of facing
> the person you are dancing with, making eye contact, though not necessarily
> staring, during the figure.  Since many of the figure names in country dance
> come from French words, sometimes corrupted by time and the folk process, it
> seems reasonable to borrow another French term.  I'm not aware of this term
> already being used for some other dance figure, let me know if it is.  Even
> though it has 3 syllables instead of 2 I kind of like the sound of
> "vis-a-vis and swing!"

IMO it sounds too similar to dosado.  Which isn't a big problem given the
similarity of the move, but it's going to cause confusion.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] another new word idea

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Fri, Jan 29, 2016, Robert Golder via Callers wrote:
> On Jan 29, 2016, at 1:42 PM, Harold E. Watson via Callers 
>  wrote:
>>
>> I like the word "eddy". It rolls off the tongue easy, defines a
>> circular movement, and has a sharp consonant sound. I haven't been
>> able to think of a down side, yet.
>
> Pity the poor guy named Eddy, new to contra dancing, struggling down
> there on the dance floor.

Not to mention the Rocky Horror fans...
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] another new word idea

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Wed, Jan 27, 2016, Martha Wild via Callers wrote:
>
> I decided to talk to Martha Barnette and Grant Barrett at Away With
> Words about the g-word controversy, figuring that if anyone could shed
> light on the origins of the words and the ethical use of language it
> would be them.

For people searching: it's actually "A Way With Words"

http://www.waywordradio.org/
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] another new word idea

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Wed, Jan 27, 2016, jwcontrahands4 via Callers wrote:
> 
> I think that, if I decide to abandon gypsy, I will go with "ease
> about". I like the feel of it. An alternative would be "walkabout".

Walkabout would be a poor substitute:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-07/lets-go-walkabout-changes-name-a-cultural-appropriation-claims/7071662

I suggest that anyone thinking of a substitute term do at least a quick
search for " appropriation" (which is what I did to find the above
link) and " slur".
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] That g word

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016, sargo...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 22, 2016, at 12:34, Aahz Maruch via Callers 
>  wrote:
>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016, via Callers wrote:
>>> 
>>> I disagree. If it is fair to condemn a word despite widespread
>>> ignorance of its racist etymology (such as the very real problem
>>> with the verb "gyp"), then the inverse must be true: it is fair to
>>> exonerate a word despite widespread ignorance of its non-racist
>>> etymology (e.g., niggardly). That a word falsely gets attributed to
>>> a category in which it doesn't belong is irrelevant. If two separate
>>> meanings/derivations converge to an identically spelled modern word,
>>> I don't believe the innocent word (when used in its original context)
>>> deserves to be written off. Let us truly abide by what you claim to
>>> support: its current use *is* relevant.
>> 
>> Let me know the next time you use "gay" to mean something roughly similar
>> to "happy" or "joyful", but for which there is no direct substitute.
>> Despite my support for queer rights (given that two of my partners are
>> bisexual, among other reasons), that's the one real loss I still feel.
>
> Honestly, it will be next December when I sing Christmas carols again :-)

That's quoting, no different from watching an old movie.  (And watching
_Victor/Victoria_ is especially interesting in this regard.)  I meant
you, personally, using the word in conversation.  I'll bet you've pretty
much wiped it out of your everyday vocabulary.  The fact that you've
admitted it will be almost a year from now indicates that you understand
the point I'm making.  ;-)
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
"If you want a picture of the future of Usenet, imagine a foot stuck in
a human mouth -- forever."  --Avram Grumer

Re: [Callers] That g word

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016, Lindsay Morris via Callers wrote:
>
> I'm about to leave this list because I'm so appalled at the amount of time
> spent on this discussion. So many smart, good people: surely we all have
> something better to do?

Sounds like you're policing what other people choose to spend their time
on.  Oddly enough, I've seen comments like yours countless times when the
subject lands on sexism, racism, homophobia, and so on.  What I find
especially interesting is that these types of comments are louder when
it's a subject that isn't "generally recognized" to be hurtful.  In my
own lifetime, I've watched the discussion shift significantly when the
subject is homophobia, and I currently watch appalled as fatphobia is
still considered acceptable (with constant deprecatory comments similar
to yours).

People whose lives are adversely affected by prejudice don't have the
luxury of walking away from the discussion.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] That g word

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016, via Callers wrote:
>
> I disagree. If it is fair to condemn a word despite widespread
> ignorance of its racist etymology (such as the very real problem
> with the verb "gyp"), then the inverse must be true: it is fair to
> exonerate a word despite widespread ignorance of its non-racist
> etymology (e.g., niggardly). That a word falsely gets attributed to
> a category in which it doesn't belong is irrelevant. If two separate
> meanings/derivations converge to an identically spelled modern word,
> I don't believe the innocent word (when used in its original context)
> deserves to be written off. Let us truly abide by what you claim to
> support: its current use *is* relevant.

Let me know the next time you use "gay" to mean something roughly similar
to "happy" or "joyful", but for which there is no direct substitute.
Despite my support for queer rights (given that two of my partners are
bisexual, among other reasons), that's the one real loss I still feel.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] That g word

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016, Read Weaver via Callers wrote:
>
> I expect at the time you made the change from "ladies" to "women,"
> very few men would have considered dancing with another man, and
> those who did would have faced confusion at best, and hostility from
> some--I speak from my own experience. As that has changed, so has the
> language. Sorry if you think that's something to sigh about.

The vast majority of my contra experience has been in the SF area, but
I've been gender-swapping for a quarter-century and have never received
any hostility.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] New Years Eve favorites

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Sat, Dec 19, 2015, Bill Olson via Callers wrote:
>
> I got this one from David Kaynor and have used it several times:  "La
> Bastringue", timed so everyone is going into the center with a big
> hoot at the stroke of midnight.

Just to be clear, La Bastringue is not a contra, it's a circle mixer.
Which means some people might be put out by not having their partner at
midnight, have you ever had complaints about that?
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] As in Petronella

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Thu, Dec 17, 2015, Neal Schlein wrote:
> On Dec 17, 2015 8:50 AM, "Aahz Maruch via Callers" <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015, John Sweeney via Callers wrote:
>>>
>>> Whether complete standardisation is a good thing or a bad thing is another
>>> matter entirely; we all have our own opinions about MWSD :-)
>>
>> Note that MWSD is not completely standardized -- it's more like the C
>> programming language with areas that are ill-defined, or at least which
>> only extremely nitpicky people know how to do correctly.  
>
> Umm...Aahz, I think you missed the point about standardization in contra
> versus MWSD.

Maybe, but I was responding specifically to the whole phrase "complete
standardisation".  I can rant on and on about the falsity of "dancing by
definition".  ;-)  Obviously square dancing is more standardized than
contra.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
"In 1968 it took the computing power of 2 C-64's to fly a rocket to the moon.
Now, in 1998 it takes the Power of a Pentium 200 to run Microsoft Windows 98.
Something must have gone wrong."  --/bin/fortune

Re: [Callers] As in Petronella

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Thu, Dec 17, 2015, John Sweeney via Callers wrote:
>
> Whether complete standardisation is a good thing or a bad thing is another
> matter entirely; we all have our own opinions about MWSD :-)

Note that MWSD is not completely standardized -- it's more like the C
programming language with areas that are ill-defined, or at least which
only extremely nitpicky people know how to do correctly.  An example
someone told me about last night:

Given a right-handed ocean wave with girls in the center, call "girls
U-turn back and Roll".  What should be the result?  (Side note:
reviewing the definition right now, I think the person I was talking with
had the wrong answer, but it's ambiguous.)

Therefore, competent callers consider stuff like that to be either
avoided or workshopped if you want to do them (the latter being just
like contra).

An interesting point that mostly only MWSD callers are aware of: the
CALLERLAB Applications Review Committee uses the terms "proper" and 
"improper" rather than "right"/"wrong" or "legal"/"illegal" because they
have zero power to enforce their decisions.

CALLERLAB also has "Standard Application" documents for Basic through
Plus, they tell you which formations/arrangements are more likely to
succeed/fail for any given call.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] As in Petronella

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015, Michael Fuerst via Callers wrote:
>
> "Balance and spin" has the same number of syllables as "Petronella"
> and avoids unnecessary jargon

Of course, some of us think that unless there's a compelling reason (as
possibly in the case of "gypsy"), keeping the old terminology is part of
the charm of folk dancing (in the generic sense, as opposed to IFD).

Should we also get rid of "California Twirl" and "Mad Robin"?
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] 4 person do-si-do?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Tue, Dec 01, 2015, Luke Donforth via Callers wrote:
>
> Possibly this is a choreographic question already answered in square
> dancing, but I'm not familiar with the outcome. How well does a four person
> do-si-do work? I'm thinking of something along the lines of:

In the normal duple improper formation, a four-person do-si-do is called
zigzag, there are lots of dances with that.  But that's not what you're
doing here.

> In my head, the four person do-si-do is a right hand star sans hands; but
> not sure how well it'll fly; especially since the right diagonal women have
> less far to turn to face in than the left diagonal women coming out of the
> chain.

>From my POV, that's a four-person gypsy.  Or maybe the square dance
equivalent would be promenade inside the ring.  The key element of
do-si-do is facing the same direction during the movement (modulo the
contra variant of a spinning do-si-do or square dancing's highland fling)
and ending up facing the same direction at the end.

I recently saw a square dance caller struggle with explaining Walk Around
the Corner (which is square dancing's equivalent of gypsy) and See Saw,
failing to mention either of the "easy" ways of getting across the
concept:

* keep your shoulder toward the person you're walking around

* exactly the same thing as an armless allemande

Anyway, there are probably several ways to call what you want, but I
think that do-si-do ain't one of them.  ;-)
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Caller needed: 1/16 Stanford barn dance

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Mon, Nov 30, 2015, Aahz via Callers wrote:
>
> I've offered to be a filter so that they don't need to deal with the
> responses, so please respond privately to me if you're interested and
> available.  I've already explained that booking will be somewhat
> difficult both because of the relatively short notice and because it's
> Ralph Page weekend.

Thanks to the several people who told me about Contra Carnivale, that's
proof I'm currently out of the loop on the contra side.  ;-)
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Identifying Dances (Was "Anyone know this dance?"]

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015, Jeremy Gmail via Callers wrote:
>
> So what can we do?  We could all ask on [Callers] but we'd soon get
> fed up with the forum being taken over.  I wondered about a "please
> identify this dance" (sub-)forum, similar to the many "ask the expert"
> forums (fora?) you see in the IT community.
>
> Do members have any thoughts about this?  Will it work?  How do we get
> people on it? What are the issues?  Is there a batter / alternative
> approach?

First of all, I think making changes is a bit premature -- nobody AFAIK
is complaining about the current stream of requests.  That said, Mailman
has the ability to create "virtual" mailing lists called topics:

https://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/node29.html

It would be straightforward -- once we agree on any topic names -- for
Seth/Chris to implement topic filtering.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Dances with R & L Thru

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote:
>
> I am looking for a few good contras with a R & L Thru that do not contain a
> Ladies chain.  Any suggestions?

Panix Dot Chat (a...@pobox.com)

Becket formation
Double-progression, better with odd number of couples

A1  Right-and-left thru on left diagonal (8)
(Yes, start with progression)
(Warn ends about not moving)
Right-and-left thru new couple (8)
A2  Circle left 3/4 (8)
Swing neighbor (8)
B1  Pass through (4)
California twirl (4)
Men left-hand turn once-and-half (8)
B2  Balance and swing partner (16)

This was deliberately designed to not have a Ladies Chain.  ;-)
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Gypsy perception

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Mon, Nov 02, 2015, Donald Perley wrote:
>
> It often seems like people on contra email lists and facebook get more
> joy from seeking problems to fix it through political correctness than
> they do from dancing itself.

I'm sure it seems that way to *you*.  Then again, I'm sure you used the
same argument style thirty years ago when people started complaining
about "faggot".

Perhaps you might want to consider that some of us get joy out of
bringing more people into contra dancing, and part of the way we do that
is to make contra dancing more welcoming and inclusive.

Just to be clear: I am not -- yet -- arguing that we *should* change
"gypsy", I'm simply poking holes in the arguments of people who ridicule
this discussion.

I have to admit that technically your argument is correct WRT me, but
that's because I haven't been contra dancing at all (except for Queer
Contra Dance Camp).  Instead, I've been focusing my time/energy on
learning to call MWSD, which leaves this as my only outlet for contra
dancing.  ;-)
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Gypsy

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Sat, Oct 31, 2015, Tom Hinds via Callers wrote:
> 
> I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY WANT TO KNOW, who on this list believe that
> contra dancers have a negative view of the Romani people because of
> the word gypsy?  Anyone?

You've got broken logic.  The question isn't whether using "gypsy"
generates negative stereotypes but whether using the word reminds people
of existing negative stereotypes and whether the people referred to by
the word have negative reactions to the use of the word.

Using words such as "kike" and "nigger" and "spic" and "cunt" don't cause
negative views, either.  But try using those words when you're calling,
let us know how that works for you.

Regardless of whether "gypsy" as a figure refers to Romani, it's clear
that "dance gypsy" does refer to stereotypes about the Romani.  Using
"gypsy" for the figure is therefore much more likely to appear to be
referencing stereotypes, regardless of intent.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] dances in unusual formations

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Sun, Nov 01, 2015, Donna Hunt via Callers wrote:
> 
> I'm doing a workshop on dances "outside the box" (ie, no squares or contras).
> Anyone have any interesting dances for contra dancers that fit the criteria?  

Levi Jackson Rag would've been my first suggestion.  I only skimmed the
thread, but I didn't notice anyone mentioning circle dance mixers such as
Jiffy Mixer, Arnold's Circle, or La Bastringue (last one is a personal
favorite).  Salty Dog Rag isn't a mixer, although you could probably
change the figure easily enough if you wanted.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Progressive politics? Ha, ha

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Thu, Oct 29, 2015, Ron Blechner wrote:
>
> Can we please not discuss politics on this list?

Whether "gypsy" is an offensive term and the figure name should be
changed is an inherently political discussion, so no.  (Ditto similar
discussions about gender-free dancer terms.)

For that matter, I would argue that discussions about how to handle
harassment are political as well; at minimum, thirty or forty years ago,
there would have been people arguing exactly as you are that we should
avoid discussing them because they are political.

What exactly are you objecting to?
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
"We've just found a line in a perl script that invokes a shell script to call 
a lisp program which invokes the very-same perl script."  --anonymous

Re: [Callers] Progressive politics? Ha, ha

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Wed, Oct 28, 2015, Michael Fuerst via Callers wrote:
>
> I have been contra dancing for 30 years or so and this is the first
> time I've encountered a question about "gypsy" being controversial.
> The people who contra dance on average are well left of center
> politically--people who would never use an ethnically offensive
> word.(Finding a bumper sticker at a contra dance gathering supporting
> a Republican candidate is quite impossible.)As you noted, language
> evolves, and the use of "gypsy" in contra dancing never had any
> offensive baggage or intent. Given the thousands of left-wing contra
> dancers who have guiltlessly gypsied over the years, having a single
> individual (who may not well be a member of the allegedly offended
> group) come to a dance, and for some reason makes the connection she
> did, does not seem adequate to drop the word.

  Your suggestion that progressive people promoting
political correctness always stick to their progressive principles is
risible.  I suggest that you do some research into the countless number
of times that "progressive" people have screwed over minorities who
weren't in their own demographic.

To save you a bit of time, here's one specific example that consumed
large amounts of time and emotional energy in one of my other social
groups:

http://fanlore.org/wiki/RaceFail_%2709

> Your examples of "nigger" and "faggot" are not comparable, as they are
> today often sill used with intended hate.

Please re-read the messages pointing out that in Europe, particularly,
"gypsy" still definitely gets used as a hateful slur.  And I don't know
enough about *ALL* of American culture to presume that "gypsy" isn't used
that way here in significant subcultures.  Certainly "gyp" (as a verb)
does get used.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Offensive terms and cultural norms

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015, Sargon de Jesus via Callers wrote:
>
> This has been a fascinating and edifying conversation regarding how and
> when to use the term. At the risk of getting too deep in the philosophical
> questions regarding use of the word "gypsy," I have a sincere and seriously
> non-loaded question about what conditions must be met in order to justify
> removing it from our calling vocabulary. Of course I acknowledge that when
> use of a pointed term meant to represent a certain group of people is
> deemed by that group of people to be offensive, then care should be taken
> to eliminate use of such a word (the Washington, D.C. football team comes
> to mind). There is no alternate etymology to that term other than the
> reference to Native Americans (well, unless their helmets had always
> featured red-skinned potatoes, of course). But now, in playing devil's
> advocate I ask: doesn't context and origin matter for "gypsy"? Isn't the
> etymology of the term's use in contra dancing relevant to whether it can
> rightfully be cast aside for being an offensive term?

Maybe.  But given that there isn't any clear etymology for "gypsy" as a
dance figure and given that "dance gypsy" *is* a clear reference to the
common meaning of gypsy, I think that the burden of proof falls on those
defending the use of "gypsy" as a figure -- but only if it turns out that
Romani find it offensive.

> To those who say it doesn't, then how do we reconcile that with offensive
> terms or displays that have similar outputs that arose completely
> independently? For example:
>
> - The four-pointed star common in Jainism is frequently mistaken for a
> swastika.
> - The garb of the "Nazarenos" in Spain look identical to the KKK.
> - Geologists liberally use the term "dike/dyke" for a relatively common
> rock formation.
> - Cracks or fissures in/on surfaces are commonly called "chinks."
> - The term "fob" is widely used for certain types of rings on key chains.
> 
> If we agree that all of these displays and uses are legitimate and
> appropriate for continued use, then doesn't the history of "gypsy" in
> contra dancing matter? Or does the surficial cause of offense warrant
> elimination? Not trying to weasel out of the situation here, but rather
> genuinely trying to refine the precise reasoning behind decisions in contra
> vocabulary. Curious about any/all perspectives on this -- thanks!

All these examples refer to larger cultural/linguistic conflicts than
"gypsy" as a dance move.  I'll point out that "gay" got killed (at least
for now) despite its centuries of existence, and "queer" is still very
much up in the air.  IMO, those two examples demonstrate that there's
likely to be more pushback on everyday use of terms that are also
offensive when their everyday use is already emotion-laden.

And given that "gypsy" as a dance figure has some emotional force in the
contra community, I think it's more likely to get replaced if it turns
out that it's offensive.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Mon, Oct 26, 2015, JD Erskine iDance via Callers wrote:
>
> The most significant action/interaction has occurred, the person spoke up.
> The useful thing is to acknowledge it -- receipt of the communication.
> 
> (As an operator in many radio communication services I can easily attest to
> the fact that an indication of receipt is different from one stating
> agreement.)

That is true.

> Were I writing in response (to that which I have not seen, or felt a
> reaction to), I might state in my version of a kindly tone, "Thank you for
> writing, and expressing your concern." . . . point of view, etc. as one
> considers it useful.
> 
> There is little need to explain anything. They wish to speak, be heard.
> Indicating they've been heard is likely to be the most satisfying thing to
> them.

Maybe.  I have certainly been in situations where I actually do want
action, and a simple acknowledgment of receipt might make me angrier.
That can be doubly or triply true when I suspect that the person has not
understood my point, so I would at minimum encourage "mirroring":
rephrasing what the person said in your own words and asking if that's
what they meant.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015, janet via Callers wrote:
>
> Troll has an original meaning as a mean mythical creature, who,
> somewhere along the lines became associated with living under a
> bridge. In today's society a troll came to mean someone who reads
> computer forums, usually with malicious intentions. But even that has
> shifted so people refer to trolling the Internet as reading forums or
> posts without any intent to post at all.

Digressing a bit: dunno where you got this information, and because
language shifts, you may well be correct about the current meaning of
"troll".  However, speaking as someone who's been online for more than a
quarter-century, you are dead-wrong about the historical genesis.

If you look in a dictionary, you'll see that "troll" is also a fishing
term.  Originally, trolling online meant that you were fishing for
reactions, often maliciously but not necessarily.  Therefore troll as a
noun was a back-formation, someone who made a practice of trolling.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015, Lindsay Morris via Callers wrote:
>
> I don't think of it as a derogatory term.

Are you Romani?  As with other terms that are slurs against various
demographic groups, you don't get to decide what's derogatory or
offensive if you're not part of the group.  In many cases (e.g. "queer"
or "nigger"), terms that are acceptable or reclaimed for in-group usage
are still considered derogatory when used by other people.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015, Brooks Hart via Callers wrote:
>
> How about "eddy"?

"What's the matter, Columbia?  You've eaten Eddie before."

Sorry, that's the first thing that popped into my head...
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Musical styles for a Barn Dance question

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Sun, Oct 18, 2015, JD Erskine iDance via Callers wrote:
>
> A few weeks ago I attended a free, intro night of MWSD. The point I took
> away from that was that someone could really use any music if it met the
> basic criteria. There were Beatles tunes/songs, pop "standards" and such.
> Not much in the way of tune as many of us might generally expect or
> appreciate.

One MWSD caller I know likes to use John Philip Sousa's "Liberty Bell"
March -- aka the theme from Monty Python.  I find that somewhat
distracting as I keep expecting to hear the *STOMP*.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Rolling Starts?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Fri, Oct 02, 2015, Lindsey Dono wrote:
>
> Does this help? 

Thanks!  Not a term I'd seen before, and it looked like the kind of term
that could have multiple meanings (like "poly").
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
"I could probably become a lesbian if women didn't get on my nerves so
much."  --Paula Anderson

Re: [Callers] Rolling Starts?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Fri, Oct 02, 2015, Lindsey Dono via Callers wrote:
>
> -Preplanned vs spontaneous rolling starts. When I decided to start
> working on rolling starts, I preplanned with a band that I knew loved
> them. We discussed: timing, signaling, what to do if things failed
> to sync or fell apart. To my total delight, both rolling starts
> worked. My next rolling start was a surprise to me- the band just
> jumped in behind me! Some bands can and love to do this. Some callers
> love this, others don't. I've stopped bands from vamping behind me if
> I knew I had a lot of explaining to do.

"vamping"?
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Fw: Shadow Swing Disclaimers?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Tue, Sep 08, 2015, Michael Fuerst via Callers wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 1:53 PM, Luke Donforth  
> wrote:
>> On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Michael Fuerst via Callers 
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Asking about how to appropriately do dances with shadow swings seems
>>> like asking how men can appropriately grope women during a dance.
>>
>> I again think your attempt to inject levity into a conversation have
>> come across as crass and inappropriate.  Asking about shadow swings
>> on a list for calling is pertinent; joking about men groping women
>> dancers isn't.
>
> Your assessment is inaccurate. This is not a matter where levity is
> acceptable. Creating a situation which could force someone into close,
> almost intimate proximity with a person perceived as emotionally or
> physically threatening is inappropriate. A lesser problem is that one
> can get a shadow who one considers personable, but very unpleasant
> for swinging (for example, due to either height difference, or a body
> position or weight distribution which unnecessarily strains one's own
> body).

Well, I share Luke's assessment.  The phrasing you used to compare shadow
swings and groping implies either levity or a disregard of the difference
between groping and a shadow swing.  Regardless of the seriousness with
which you view "forcing" a shadow swing, it is clear that many other
people disagree, and your comparison is not appropriate, especially given
Maia's original request to AVOID any discussion of whether shadow swings
are appropriate.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Query - Tablet size thoughts

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015, JD Erskine iDance via Callers wrote:
> 
> Of those using, or considering using, a tablet computer for dance directions
> ("cards") and programs, what size do you use or contemplate using?
> 
> I have a crappy 7" one that I haven't truly used for this and would think
> I'd like something a tad larger (8, 8.4, 8.0/9, likely not a 10") that I
> might see most/all of the directions at a type size I don't need reading
> glasses for.

I'm using a 10.1" Samsung Galaxy Note 2014 edition.  I originally tried
a 7.7" Toshiba Excite and found that particularly for square dance
calling it wasn't big enough -- I think something smaller probably would
work for just contra.  It's spendier than I would have preferred, but I
had a couple of constraints that made it impossible to get anything else
a year ago, maybe things have changed since then:

* The proprietary charging cable required by the Toshiba reminded me of
how awful it is to use anything other than micro-USB, I like being able
to store charging cables *everywhere*

* I wanted a microSD slot for storage

The Galaxy Note also has a longer-than-average battery life, something
you should definitely consider.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Contra- roll differences?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Tue, Aug 25, 2015, John Sweeney via Callers wrote:
>Aahz:
>>
>> Bob Elling likes to point out that there is in fact a sashay
>> that basically is a reversed Mad Robin.
> 
> Hmmm... not sure what he meant by a "reversed Mad Robin".
> 
> He can't be talking about the original Mad Robin, as the move in that dance
> involves casts.
> 
> And the modern contra version of the Mad Robin move doesn't have an implicit
> direction for you to reverse!  Those Mad Robins can go clockwise around the
> person beside you or counter-clockwise.

Huh.  I don't recall encountering a counter-clockwise Mad Robin.  My
mistake, then.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Contra- roll differences?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015, Tom Hinds via Callers wrote:
>
> In the book book, Cowboy Dances I believe there's a square called Sashay,
> re-sashay - Mad Robins with a different attitude.

One MWSD caller (Bob Elling) likes to point out that there is in fact a
sashay (as opposed to a half-sashay) that basically is a reversed Mad
Robin (although he doesn't use that term).  And yes, he does sometimes
call sashay.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] More on Programming

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Sat, Jun 27, 2015, George Mercer via Callers wrote:
>
> Not disagreeing with anything but explaining that when I tell dancers
> "squares are just like contras only you have to listen" I am not so much
> characterizing one or the other, but asking, even begging, the dancers to
> pay attention to what the caller is calling. Many contra dancers are
> notoriously bad listeners, especially experienced ones and they tend to set
> an example for inexperienced dancers, good and bad.  Noit listening in a
> contra can lead to problems. Not listening in a square is often an outright
> disaster.  That's all.

...and speaking as someone who does both contra and MWSD, I'll stick
myself in the "notoriously bad listener" camp at contra dances.  OTOH,
in all fairness, most contra callers are considerably more difficult to
understand than square dance callers.  (Partly due to sound being
directed more at good music sound.)

I'm probably not the only person with that habit.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] More on Programming

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2015, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote:
>
> Adding squares regularly to our programs would enhance and expand the
> experience.

Maybe.  In the SF area (and apparently in many other areas), contra
dances used to include trad squares as a significant component.  There
are many reasons they've mostly vanished, to the point that I think
nobody can really say definitively which ones were significant.
Nevertheless, those reasons exist, and unless a significant number of
them are addressed, I'd be doubtful that trad squares can be resurrected
at contras.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] How to explain the charms of square dances (was More on Programming)

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Fri, Jun 26, 2015, Jacob Nancy Bloom via Callers wrote:
>
> How would those of you who enjoy both squares and contras describe what you
> get out of dancing square dances?

Keeping in mind that I'm talking about MWSD -- I don't particularly like
trad squares:

I mainly enjoy the challenge.  Square dancing requires hearing, brain,
and body all working together.  There's a surprise factor that mostly
doesn't happen in contra dances.  There's overall more feeling that it's
a team of people working together, rather than pairs of couples.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Giving Weight

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2015, Ron Blechner wrote:
> On Jun 25, 2015 10:48 AM, "Aahz Maruch via Callers" <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2015, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote:
>>>
>>> My main concern is how to acquire that tension/counterweight in a
>>> swing, if you do not lean back.
>>
>> Let momentum do the work.  The way I teach swinging, I tell people
>> to stand nose-to-nose.  Then I tell each of them to take a small
>> half-step to the left.  If they twist, I tell them to go back to the
>> nose-to-nose and explain that it is critical that they stay facing
>> the same direction when they move left.  Then I have them go into
>> ballroom hold and start walking forward, telling them to notice how
>> the pressure of holding each other just naturally forces them into a
>> circle.
>
> You don't find "nose-to-nose" makes some uncomfortable?

Hasn't happened yet AFAIK.  I think most people understand that the
phrase doesn't mean "smash your noses together".
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Giving Weight

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Wed, Jun 24, 2015, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote:
>
> My main concern is how to acquire that tension/counterweight in a swing, if
> you do not lean back.

Let momentum do the work.  The way I teach swinging, I tell people to
stand nose-to-nose.  Then I tell each of them to take a small half-step
to the left.  If they twist, I tell them to go back to the nose-to-nose
and explain that it is critical that they stay facing the same direction
when they move left.  Then I have them go into ballroom hold and start
walking forward, telling them to notice how the pressure of holding each
other just naturally forces them into a circle.

Particularly when I do this with people who've been twisting their
bodies, they go, "Wow, it's a lot easier this way."

When they start swinging a bit faster, that's when I talk about the
giving weight aspect of swinging.  It's a matter of holding the swing
together, and you just don't need the tension until they're moving fast.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Buzz Step Swing

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Sun, Jun 21, 2015, Tom Hinds wrote:
> On Jun 21, 2015, at 10:51 AM, Aahz Maruch via Callers wrote:
>>
>>With Ladies Chain, two dancers change places.  If they fail to execute
>>that part, it's likely that the progression will get affected.  That's
>>probably not going to happen with a swing that ends up with the dancers
>>sashayed or otherwise in the wrong place.
> 
> Aajz, I'm glad you pointed out that you're not calling much.  There are some
> other situations you might not have observed yet.  How about:

Note that I've been dancing contra *and* MWSD *and* IFD for more than a
quarter-century each (plus bits and pieces of ECD and Regency and ballet
and other dance forms).  I have a lot of observations and a lot of
opinions from that.  You might also note that I wrote my dance RAQ more
than a decade before I ever began calling, and my minimal contra plus
two years of MWSD calling haven't changed my opinions much:

http://rule6.info/dance_raq.html

> -the combination, swing neighbor, right and left through.  Let's assume a
> caller spends a great deal of time teaching the right and left through but
> little time on a swing.  If the dancers end the swing sashayed what happens
> just before the right and left through?   Confusion maybe?
> 
> -there's a neighbor swing at the end of the tune.  The beginning of the
> dance starts with an allemande or swing or some other move with a new
> neighbor.  How confusing is it for the beginners (and frustrating for the
> others) when they end the swing wrong?
> 
> I teach my beginning callers this:  If you don't get the newbies to
> correctly end a swing, the caller, the newbies and everyone else will be
> frustrated at various points during the evening.

That's true, but my observation is that people doing the wrong thing for
R&L Thru causes more breakdowns than people ending the swing on the
wrong side.  Quite possibly other people have different data points on
this subject, but I think I've got a long enough baseline to make my
opinion reasonable.

And the fact that many people teaching newcomers concentrate more on
things like R&L Thru than swing makes me suspect I'm not alone in my
perception.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Buzz Step Swing

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

[rearranging quoted parts to make provenance clearer -- which is one
reason I strongly prefer inline quoting ;-) ]

On Sun, Jun 21, 2015, Maia McCormick via Callers wrote:
>> On Jun 21, 2015, at 3:44 AM, John Sweeney via Callers 
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> I found it interesting that Ron said, "the buzz-step swing gets axed
>>> if I'm short on time".  If I only had time to teach one thing then
>>> the only thing I would teach would be the buzz-step swing, and how
>>> to finish it so you end up in the right place.  I can't think of
>>> anything else that newcomers can't learn during the walk-throughs.
>
> Tom, at a guess, Aahz is not talking about NOT spending time on
> the swing, nor about neglecting to teach dancers how to start/end
> one--just that the finer points of technique aren't a priority for the
> beginner's lesson.

Actually, I was.  I was responding to John's point above.  My dancing
experience is that a lot of newbies do end up sashayed and that it
causes fewer problems than some other kinds of miscues.  (Although I'm a
new caller, I've been doing contra for more than a quarter-century.)

> Of course any teacher worth their salt will teach that a swing always
> ends with the lady on the right. But I think all Aahz is saying is
> that, IF the dancers end the swing with the lady on the right, it
> doesn't really matter how they get there--fumbling through a swing
> happens, and it's easy to recover from, while moves that involve the
> rest of your hands-4 or the rest of the set have potential to cause
> way more disruption to the dance if botched.

That is true, but it's also true IMO that dancers ending up on the wrong
side of the set causes more problems than ending up sashayed after
swinging.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Buzz Step Swing

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Wed, Dec 31, 1969, Tom Hinds wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure what you're saying in your email.   Do you teach a right and
> left through plus the chain in the beginning lesson because learning those
> moves is critical to the success of the evening?  And are you saying that
> you spend little time with the swing because those other moves are difficult
> and deserve/need more time?

I'm not doing enough calling to be teaching; I'm talking about my
observations of what other people are teaching.

> You also said, "so wrong swings have little effect on the overall
> structure/flow of the dance".   Can you explain this to me?

With Ladies Chain, two dancers change places.  If they fail to execute
that part, it's likely that the progression will get affected.  That's
probably not going to happen with a swing that ends up with the dancers
sashayed or otherwise in the wrong place.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
"If you're black, you got to look at America a little bit different. You 
got to look at America like the uncle who paid for you to go to college, 
but who molested you."  --Chris Rock

Re: [Callers] Buzz Step Swing

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Sun, Jun 21, 2015, John Sweeney via Callers wrote:
>
> Question: If you were calling for a group with a dozen newcomers in the hall
> out of 100 people, and the organizers said you could have two minutes
> teaching before you started the first walk-through, what would you teach?
> For me the answer is obvious, every dance has a buzz-step swing; teach a
> buzz-step swing.
> 
> Another reason for teaching swinging is that there are a significant number
> of "experienced" dancers who have bad swinging habits.  

How often does it happen that you get to do your teaching to the entire
hall?  IME, the teaching rarely reaches the experienced dancers.

Another point is that aside from the issue of where the swing ends,
swings create minimal change on location or formation, so wrong swings
have little effect on the overall structure/flow of the dance.  What I
see most teaching sessions concentrating on is Ladies Chain and R&L Thru,
both of which move dancers around and rely on correctly doing courtesy
turn -- and which a lot of new dancers have trouble with.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

[Callers] FWD: Using the correct e-mail address

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

Howdy,

I don't know when it entered the thread (forwarded message below), but
the e-mail address callers-requ...@lists.sharedweight.net does *NOT* go
to the list, it goes to the moderator.  I find that it's good practice to
check the addresses in posts before I send them -- usually it works best
if you have only ONE address.

Thanks,
Aahz

- Forwarded message from Amy Wimmer via Callers 
 -

> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 13:01:39 -0700
> From: Amy Wimmer via Callers 
> To: Tom Hinds 
> Cc: "callers-requ...@lists.sharedweight.net"
>   ,
>   "callers@lists.sharedweight.net" ,
>   John Sweeney 
> Subject: Re: [Callers] How to Describe a Ricochet Hey
> Reply-To: Amy Wimmer 
> 
> I concur: a demonstration is usually very helpful for my learning
> something. I am very visual, and the use of too many words confuses
> me. I have many "Ah HA!" moments while seeing a demonstration. Phooey
> on those who poo-poo them.
> -Amy in Seattle
> 
> 
> 
> > On Jun 19, 2015, at 4:04 AM, Tom Hinds via Callers 
> >  wrote:
> >
> > I'm asking myself why not demo a ricochet?  In my mind there are some 
> > advantages to demonstrating a move instead of describing it (or doing both 
> > with a wireless mic).
> >
> > My experience is most contra callers are highly educated and have 
> > exceptional verbal skills.  Maybe some callers don't value a good 
> > demonstration.  Or is a demonstration too beneath some of us?  One of my 
> > calling students told me that I failed as a caller because I demonstrated a 
> > move.
> >
> > My own view is that watching and learning is an integral part of being 
> > human.  We could make a long list of older skills (like hunting) or newer 
> > ones like learning to play a musical instrument where watching and 
> > imitating is the key to learning.
> >
> > I recently took an informal workshop on dance history.  The teachers 
> > pointed out that when people watch something, appropriate synapses fire in 
> > preparation for performing a task.  This physiological response helps the 
> > person actually learn a task better.
> >
> > T
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Callers mailing list
> > Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

- End forwarded message -

-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Box - Swat - CA - Jersey/Nevada

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Mon, Jun 15, 2015, susanelberger via Callers wrote:
>
> It seems that we have already gone pretty far down that path. Every
> time I look at dance with odd calls, "slice and dice" being one
> recently posted, along with the various place name twirls, it troubles
> me deeply. I have to remember that one of the joys of contra dancing
> compared to MWSD is that, at least theoretically, anyone can walk in
> off the street and dance. The more we create esoteric names for calls
> the less possible that becomes.

Emphasizing Colin's comments:

At the MWSD caller convention this year, Clark Baker ran a "zesty contra"
late-night session, where he taught the dances, then used recorded music
with Lisa Greenleaf's calling overlaid.  One of the points he was
demonstrating was how easy some of the more difficult MWSD figures are
when you teach them in "isolation" as part of a single dance
(particularly in terms of the constant repetition).

In the end, it's not how esoteric the name is, but how well-constructed
the figure is for smooth dance flow and how well you fit the figure into
a complete dance.
-- 
Square/Contra Callerhttp://caller.aahz.ws/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
So many dances, so little time

Re: [Callers] How to Describe a Ricochet Hey

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Wed, Jun 17, 2015, John Sweeney via Callers wrote:
>
> I just realised that a Ricochet Hey is actually a Mad Robin in which the
> people passing through the middle interact with each other.
> 
> So, next time I teach it I am going to try getting the dancers to do a Mad
> Robin first then get them to change their path from a rectangle to a pizza
> slice and touch hands in the middle.
> 
> Does that make sense?

After reading other comments: some people do Mad Robin like a Ricochet
Hey anyway, so if you really want to use that as an example (and assuming
the dancers already know Mad Robin, which is the only time it makes sense
as a building block), you need to emphasize that people should do a
normal Mad Robin.  ;-)
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] What is this circle dance?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Wed, Jun 17, 2015, Stephanie Marie via Callers wrote:
>
> Called this dance at one of my first calling gigs a couple years ago and
> then again to a heavy beginner crowd last month. When I first called this
> dance, I wrote it from memory from an earlier dance night. I'm not even sure
> I got it all right. It worked well both times to get the dancers walking to
> the music.
> 
> Unknown Circle Mixer Dance
> 
> A1 Circle left, Circle right
> A2 Step into the middle and back. Do it again with a great big shout
> B1 Partner Do si do, Partner Swing
> B2 Partner promenade Counter Clockwise around the big circle with gents in
> the middle.
> Ladies turn over right shoulder to meet new partner, reform circle

It looks like it might be a mis-remembered and/or modified La Bastringue:

http://www.sfdh.org/encyclopedia/bastringue87.php

http://www.phantomranch.net/folkdanc/dances/labastri.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG7MAwelWAo
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Box - Swat - CA - Jersey/Nevada

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Sat, Jun 13, 2015, Neal Schlein via Callers wrote:
>
> Interesting note: Star Thru is one of the few figures in modern
> squares which by definition CANNOT be done by two facing people
> dancing the same gender role.  Box the Gnat is another, and possibly
> California Twirl depending on the exact definition.  The
> gender-neutral replacements are Slide Thru and Partner Trade.

The flip side of Slide Thru and Partner Trade is that because they are
no-hands, they change hand availability significantly and body flow
somewhat.  Some MWSD callers argue that we should drop California Twirl,
Box the Gnat, and Star Thru because we have the no-hands versions, but
those of us who have field-tested that discovered that the hands versions
really work better for a lot of choreography.  (The gender-neutral
sequence for Box the Gnat is Touch 1/4 and Roll, which does have hands
but significantly different body flow.)

NOTE CAREFULLY: Slide Thru is not gender-neutral because it has specific
turning instructions based on gender; it's just the no-hands version of
Star Thru that allows same-gender operation (i.e. same-gender ends up
facing opposite directions instead of same direction).  However, Partner
Trade is a genuinely gender-neutral dance figure.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] 24 bar Contras

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Fri, Jun 12, 2015, Jeff Kaufman via Callers wrote:
>
> Nit: a "California twirl with other hands" is traditionally called a "star
> through".

Really?  I haven't seen Star Thru in contra much; in MWSD, at least, Star
Thru is normally done with partners facing each other, as opposed to the
California Twirl with partners facing the same direction.  What's being
asked for here is a sashayed California Twirl -- I don't think I've ever
seen that before.  However, "Nevada Twirl" does have plenty of hits when
I search, which suggests a clear provenance...

(You could argue that in a ring partners are sort-of facing each other,
but I think that's a wasted argument when people already have a clear
choreographic name for the concept.)
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Suggestions welcome

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Wed, Jun 10, 2015, Michael Barraclough via Callers wrote:
> 
> The regular Phoenix 2nd Saturday Contra is having a contra dance with
> the Desert Valley Squares Club (an LGBT MWSD group). In addition, the
> Desert Valley Squares have been advertising this dance heavily in the
> local LGBT community as part of their recruitment drive.
> 
> Any suggestions as to how best to handle this mix (regular contra
> dancers, MSWD dancers and non-dancers) would be most welcome.

I'd do one, maybe two MWSD tips as demos (assuming you call MWSD).
Otherwise, treat basically the same as any other contra night that has
lots of beginners (maybe with more mixers).  The square dancers will be
more experienced than the non-dancers, but they will struggle a bit with
the differences in styling and the phrasing focus (unless they've had
previous contra experience).

If you have a chance ahead of time, maybe rehearse contra-style buzz-step
swing with the square dancers (definitely make clear that they can do a
walking swing instead).

You might want to send this to the square dance club, it explains how
contra dances work from a square dancer perspective:

http://www.tiac.net/~mabaker/how-contra-dances-work.html

Because gay MWSD almost exclusively uses gendered terminology to
interoperate with straight squares, your choice whether to make this a
gender-free dance (I'd consult with the club).

You might ping Kris Jensen (gay square caller in ABQ who also does
contra), she may have specific suggestions due to some familiarity with
Desert Valley.

http://krisjensen.com/
k...@squarez.com
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Wed, Jun 03, 2015, Andrea Nettleton wrote:
>
> I'm pretty sure contra is more popular than ECD everywhere, and most
> ECD groups call to gents and ladies as well as corners, partners,
> neighbors, so I doubt this is the issue.  That the music often sounds
> classical rather than modern is one issue, that you only flirt with
> eyes and fingertips is another.  It's more cerebral, less athletic.
> It's a different high, which aligns less well with tastes of our age
> than contra.  You are the first person I have heard say that they
> dislike ECD because discreet roles are less necessary.

No, what I said was that I think that *part* of my dislike of ECD comes
from the use of positional descriptions.  That is, I find it difficult to
remember what "first corner" and "second corner" mean, and I think that
the difficulty many people have with contra corners means that this is a
common problem.

I note that I seem to be much better at articulating my difficulties than
many people, so I am not at all surprised if you've never heard anyone
else complain this way.

I also note that I'm a square and folk dancer (I've been doing contra,
square, and folk for more than a quarter century), so it's not exactly the
case that more cerebral and less athletic are negatives for me.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Tue, Jun 02, 2015, Andrea Nettleton via Callers wrote:
>
> English callers and dancers clearly have no trouble saying or
> understanding these terms.  If they were that awkward, they would long
> since have been replaced.  I think we see positions as roles purely
> from habit.  If I taught a roomful of kids who had never danced using
> no roles, would they think of having danced a role?

Possibly you're seeing selection bias in English.  At least in the SF Bay
Area, contra is more popular than English, and I wonder how much of that
difference is due to this issue.  (This discussion is making clear that
a significant chunk of my ECD dislike is due to this issue.)
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Wed, Jun 03, 2015, Jim Hemphill via Callers wrote:
>
> I realize that it is much easier on callers to just substitute a label  for
> ladies and gents on their calling cards.  It shifts the burden onto the
> dancers who haven't grown up in a genderless dance environment as their
> brains translate the label into a term they are used to.   Positional
> teaching and calling is more challenging for the caller.  Not every dance
> will lend itself to this technique but I bet with a little thought most
> would.

Positional calling is also considerably more difficult for at least some
dancers.  My perception is that changing the "gender" label is pretty
easy for most dancers -- at least, I've never seen many people struggling
with it, and I do see people struggling with contra corners (which is the
most common use-case in standard contra dancing).
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Tue, Jun 02, 2015, Maia McCormick via Callers wrote:
>
> I think Ron's point is that with this set of terms (i.e. 1st/2nd corner
> refers to the person rather than the position), if we're in an improper
> context, we've basically circled back around to labeling the roles, only
> these role labels seem unideal because they have lots of syllables and
> sound relatively similar. At the point at which we're talking about "first
> corner" and "second corner", isn't it less of a mouthful, easier to
> understand, and easier for experienced dancers to convert into terms they
> understand to have a set of terms like jets[gems]/rubies or larks/ravens?

Also, if people really want contextless terms, I reiterate my suggestion:

PURPLE! GREEN! PURPLE! GREEN!
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
"Whenever Dan Savage and Miss Manners agree, take their advice!" 
--Sigrid Ellis

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Mon, Jun 01, 2015, Bob Stein via Callers wrote:
>
> This discussion of ECD just made me realize that the one move that is
> usually specifically gender related -- Ladies Chain -- is actually 2nd
> corners chain.  If the idea of first and second corners is introduced
> to contra dancers than there would be no problem with most of the
> moves: chains, allemandes, heys.  It all becomes position oriented.

Maybe so.  But this discussion is making me realize part of the reason I
dislike ECD: this positional notation.  It's not that position is
difficult for me in general terms, because that's a lot of MWSD, but
something about the "corners" notation I find difficult (I also have
difficulty with contra corners).

I wonder how many other people have similar difficulty and to what
extent this accounts for the ECD/contra divide.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] The Benefits of Difference (was: Jets / rubies genderfree terms redux: gems?)

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Sat, May 30, 2015, Jacob Nancy Bloom via Callers wrote:
> On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Delia Clark via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>> 
>>  It will ultimately be a good thing if there is a generally accepted set
>> of words (certainly not a strict requirement, but something that???s
>> generally accepted across the country, if possible) that meet the range of
>> criteria, along the lines of those suggested by Ron in his matrix.
> 
> There is an assumption behind this statement which is often made, but
> which I find very disturbing.
> 
> The assumption is that it is an unalloyed good thing for there to be
> standardization.  

Sounds more like you're making an assumption from my POV.  "...ultimately
a good thing" may well be considering the net benefit rather than
believing there are only positive features.

> This is the kind of thinking that led the Modern Western Square Dance
> movement to standardize all of their calls, and all of their teaching
> programs.  They wanted any square dancer to be able to go to any
> square dance club in the country, or in the world, and immediately
> know exactly what was meant by everything that was said.  There are
> some advantages to that kind of standardization, especially if you
> happen to be a globe-hopping square dancer who enjoys dancing hot
> hash, but it comes at a tremendous cost.
>
> It comes with a loss of the opportunity to experience, adapt to, and
> appreciate regional differences.  I don't care about being able to go
> to a new place just to find that things there are done in the same way
> that I'm used to them being done back home.  I care about being able
> to go to new places and learning the way things are done there.

It's not clear what you mean by "hot hash".  The most common definition
within the MWSD community these days refers to very fast-paced calling,
and if that's the definition you're using, I completely disagree with
your point.  (Speaking as someone who's been doing MWSD for more than a
quarter-century and is currently approaching my second anniversary as a
square dance caller.)

"Mainstream" is the smallest program that's used by a significant
fraction of the MWSD community, and it generally takes about a year to
become proficient at it, to the point that ear, brain, and muscle all
work together at nearly instinct level.  There's simply no way to switch
between groups within a single city without some level of
standardization, and once you've committed to the standardizing process,
there's a lot of benefit to scaling the standardization as large as
possible.

Side note: the standardization overall benefits callers more than
dancers, which I hadn't appreciated until I became a caller.  I believe
the gay square dance community has stuck with gendered terms for similar
reasons.

If you dislike the way that MWSD expects dancers to execute figures
completely ad hoc, you probably should try a different kind of square
dancing -- but don't tell us how we should be doing things.

I've recently learned about Rueda, I haven't been able to find out how
much standardization there is within the Rueda community, but because
Rueda is couple-based rather than four-couple-based, it probably has more
opportunity for regional variation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rueda_de_Casino

> It may well be that a certain set of terms will become generally accepted
> because it works better for the dancers in a lot of places.  It may well be
> that dances which were written to be gender-neutral will be generally
> accepted because they work better for the dancers in a lot of places.  In
> the meantime, if you find yourself assuming that it would a good thing if
> there was standardization across the country, please give some thought to
> what advantage you are trying to achieve, and what the disadvantages would
> be.

That's a sentiment I can agree with.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Jets / rubies genderfree terms redux: gems?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Sun, May 31, 2015, Donna Hunt via Callers wrote:
>
> Personally I'd like to see this rest for awhile.  We just discussed
> this at length 6 months ago.  

My experience is that introducing a different interesting subject is far
more likely to result in ending a discussion that you want to avoid than
scolding people who are discussing.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Painting the bikeshed (was Jets / rubies genderfree terms redux: gems?)

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Sat, May 30, 2015, Michael Fuerst via Callers wrote:
>
> If a our group of like minded people can't agree on terms to use
> when teaching relatively straightforward dances, can we expect a
> nation to agree on such trivial issues like use of force by police,
> national health insurance, income distribution, and money's influence
> in elections 

Actually, that may not be a good comparison.  There are two forces in
discussions like these that are both somewhat in opposition and somewhat
combining:

First is the tendency to "bikeshed" -- obsessing over trivial details
because we can.  (See the Wikipedia link below.)

The second tendency is to obsess over language because language matters.
If you need convincing of this, I strongly recommend reading _The
Everyday Language of White Racism_ by Jane Hill.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson's_law_of_triviality
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Jets / rubies genderfree terms redux: gems?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Thu, May 28, 2015, Ron Blechner wrote:
>
> I have had to explain that "a jet is a gem, not the airplane or a West Side
> Story gang" to a ton of people. So I feel this is more confusing than a
> ruby being a gem.

I'd say that jets are black gems, giving people the option of using
colored armbands if they feel the need to visually identify roles.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Jets / rubies genderfree terms redux: gems?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Fri, May 29, 2015, susanelberger via Callers wrote:
>
> I have used suns and moons for years, and prefer them because they
> have one syllable each, sound completely different from each other,
> and are easy for the dancers to remember. I have never had any issue
> arise about gender bias from them. The conversation about which gems
> to use does seem a bit too overthought to me.

Speaking as a hearing-impaired person, you are wrong about "sun" and
"moon" sounding completely different.  Moreover, having them both be one
syllable increases the risk of confusion.  Using words with different
numbers of syllables is precisely one of the primary selling points for
jets/rubies (compared particularly with bands/bares).
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Jets / rubies genderfree terms redux: gems?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Thu, May 28, 2015, Alan Winston via Callers wrote:
> On 5/28/15 12:30 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers wrote:
>>
>>For those interested in gender free contra dance terms:
>>
>>1. Do you like or dislike jets / rubies ?
>
> Like. (I'm responding on personal preference alone; I'm aware of some
> objections to this, which I don't personally share.)
> 
>>2. How would gems / rubies compare?
> 
> Less good, because the soft "ms" would make the call less clear. Also,
> rubies _are_ gems, so this is confusing.

Ditto all this.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Anyone seen this dance?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Fri, May 01, 2015, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote:
>
> Amylase Dancing?

That sounds like a technocontra.  Either that or a precursor to
Alzheimer's.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] AVOID CROSS-POSTS (was Applause or Not...)

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Thu, Apr 23, 2015, barb kirchner via Callers wrote:
>
> u...just got a notification that i was not a member...but i've
> been a member for a long time. why did i get the notification if i
> wasn't a member???

Because Erik Hoffman made the decision -- the wrong decision -- to post
to two different mailing lists simultaneously.  Almost all mailing lists
these days are moderated to prevent posts by non-members, which means
that any cross-posting between lists immediately breaks down with anyone
not subscribed to both lists missing a lot of posts.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] We tried Ports & Starboards

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Wed, Apr 01, 2015, Luke Donforth via Callers wrote:
> 
> Last week, at our regular monthly dance for the Mad Robin Callers
> Collective, we tried Ports and Starboards instead of Gents and Ladies (the
> usual language for our dance). The MRCC dance is called by a collection of
> callers who work together ahead of time on a program for the evening. MRCC
> callers are interested in developing and honing their craft as dance
> facilitators.

To save other people the effort of looking it up:

http://www.madrobincallers.org/

The Mad Robin Callers Collective is a Burlington, VT based group that
helps new dance callers get started and supports experienced callers
as they hone their skills.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] How Would You Teach This Hey?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

I'm going to echo Michael Fuerst's confusion with specific comments:

On Sun, Mar 29, 2015, Don Veino via Callers wrote:
>
> *Hey, Let's Zig-Zag!*
> [Type]: Contra[Formation]: Duple Improper[Author]: Don Veino
>  [Status]: DV::
> [Comments]: Zig-Zag into Hey dance (first of it's kind?). Tricky two
> forward, one back progression.
> ::
> [A1]:
> (4,12) NEIGHBOR BALANCE, SWING
> ::
> [A2]:
> (4,4) CIRCLE LEFT 1/2, Ladies lead P ZIG LEFT [past CURRENT Ns]
> (4) ZAG RIGHT [passing NEXT Ns, to face 3rd Ns] and SEPARATE from P
> #PROGRESSION 1&2

This is what I'd call a zig-zag followed by a zag-zig.  See e.g.
"Coriolus Effect":

http://dancevideos.childgrove.org/contra/contra-modern/441

It is not clear where people are supposed to go after the separate
(though I'm making some assumptions based on the hey).

> (4) HEY 1/8, GENTS START BY LEFT [across set, GL, PR, etc.]

"GL" and "PR" are not at all clear.  The body flow for the hey is IMO
somewhat awkward because the gents are facing up/down lines after the
zag-zig and need to do a tight turn in toward the partner when starting
with the left shoulder.  I think a right shoulder start would probably
work better.

> [B1]:
> (8) HALF HEY [so 5/8 total, until meet P 2nd time]
> (8) PARTNER SWING [on Lady's home side]
> ::
> [B2]:
> (4,4) RING BALANCE, LADIES ROLL GENTS [DIAGONALLY back-to-back across set,
> NO Half Sashay] *OR* Alternate: Gents Cross by Right

Not clear what "NO Half Sashay" means.

> (4,4) RING BALANCE, PASS THROUGH [Up/Dn] in REVERSE of progression
> #DE-PROGRESSION

This looks like the dancers end up facing the wrong direction for the
balance/swing.  If my understanding is correct and you really want to do
it like this, you should have the dancers set up half-sashayed with the
neighbor before the start of the dance.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] Medleys (was Techno contras)

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015, Eric Black via Callers wrote:
>
> MEDLEYS: Medleys are becoming or have become mainstream at many contra
> dances.  I often call a 3-dance no-walkthrough medley at a regular
> contra even with lots of beginners (in fact, I did so several times
> on my recent tour in NC), and local dancers kind of expect it.  I do
> 45-minute medleys from time to time (not at a regular evening dance).
> Lots of callers do medleys, and dancers get a thrill from successfully
> navigating an accessible medley chosen for the crowd.  For my taste,
> the most salient aspect of a Techno Contra is the long-running dance
> set, with the option (and encouragement) for people to drop out at the
> bottom, get refreshed, maybe change partners, and join back in.  But
> for sure the long medley is not restricted to a techno.

Medleys suck for people with hearing impairments.  As I've mentioned
before, the average contra caller definitely has worse enunciation than
the average square dance caller, amplified by sound that focuses more on
music than voice.  Trying to hear calling over the music while dancing
really doesn't work very well.

(I can manage because I have a good kinesthetic sense and many years of
experience with both contra and folk dance -- most of the folk dances I
know I never was formally taught, so I'm pretty good at just following
along.  But I still loathe medleys, and I would be much more inclined to
sit them out if I knew ahead of time when one was being called.)
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] Triple dosado?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Fri, Mar 27, 2015, Don Veino wrote:
>
> Broken Sixpence? I personally find the triple Dosi excessive and use my
> "accidental" creation Broken Transcription in place of it.

I'm sure there is general agreement that a triple dosado is excessive and
that's why I haven't seen it in a couple of decades, I am mostly asking
out of curiosity's sake.

And it's not Broken Sixpence because the dance I remember had all four
dancers active in all three dosados.  Might be a variation, though.

To answer a question in private e-mail, I most definitely did twirl my
way through all three dosados, sometimes generating nausea in *other*
people.  ;->  (One side benefit of my particular hearing loss.)

Eric Black was probably the caller, hopefully he'll chime in.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
"I stopped believing in Santa Claus when I was six.  Mother took me to see
him in a department store and he asked for my autograph."  --Shirley Temple
___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

[Callers] Triple dosado?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

The thread about dizziness reminded me of a dance I was in once or twice
in the late 80s or early 90s and have never seen since.  It was unusual
in having a triple dosado -- yes, consecutive, I think neighbor, partner,
neighbor.

Anyone have a clue what I'm referring to?
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] Cross Trails again (was New Dance: Dirty Rotten Double Crosser)

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Thu, Jul 31, 2014, Chris Page wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 7:17 PM, Aahz Maruch via Callers
>  wrote:
>> 
>> You definitely need to be careful explaining this -- I think of Cross
>> Trail as leaving dancers facing the same direction, although your variant
>> is also common.  (No idea which is more common, particularly given the
>> collapse of "Cross Trail" in general.)
> 
> Cross Trails facing the same direction is something I've only
> encountered in the MWSD Callerlab Advanced definitions. (And even
> there, I understand, that decision was contentious.) Every instance
> I've seen in a contra dance of crosstrails through has dancers facing
> the next. (Pass right across, face along, pass left along the set, and
> on to the next.)

I've never encountered Cross Trails in contra that I remember (over a
quarter-century, though I make no promises with my hearing that I haven't
danced it and just didn't hear the call name), so square dancing is the
only usage I've ever seen.  I've also been square dancing more than a
quarter-century, so per an earlier discussion, I remember when Cross
Trails was part of the Mainstream program.

Anyway, just thought I'd warn about a potential glitch.

Aside to Jim Saxe, can't remember if this came up earlier:
http://www.dosado.com/lists/mshst.doc
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
"Just because I'm selling you into slavery doesn't mean we can't be
friends."  B-movie cliche Hall of Fame  (_Bounty Hunter: 2002_)
___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] Giant dance database? - Email Issues

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Thu, Jul 31, 2014, Dave C via Callers wrote:
>
> WHAT IS GOING ON???  I sent this email on MONDAY, July 28.  It showed
> up in my inbox, finally, date stamped today, 7/31/14 at 10 pm.
> WTH  WHY  Can SOMEONE actually tell me what is going on
> with this email system???  Thanks,

The only way anyone could answer this question is if you save the message
so that the headers are preserved, then forward the saved message.  It's
a complicated problem if you don't already have the background and may be
difficult to solve even with the background.

Most likely it's getting held as part of some kind of idiocy at Yahoo
(which is well-known for e-mail problems); second most likely is that
some kind of spam processing is holding it.

Thanks,
Aahz
___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] Giant dance database?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Wed, Jul 30, 2014, Michael Fuerst via Callers wrote:
>
> Actually a global contra dance database seems like a bad idea.  Who
> will decide what dances merit placement in the database?  A much
> better idea is for CDSS to maintain a web page with either copies of
> web page(s) with authors' dances, somewhat like Cary Ravitz now does:
> http://ravitz.us/caller/ It would be best for CDSS to keep a copy of
> each composer's dances, so to preserve them when the author dies.

Overall, this makes sense; however, remember that Maia is partly doing
this for programming practice.  There's an old programmer saying: "Rough
consensus and running code," which means that working code trumps most
other considerations.  I think your proposal runs the risk of having
nothing because people will spend time talking and talking and talking
and talking about it; if Maia's project pans out, she could (should!) be
encouraged to turn it over to CDSS to run and maintain it.

> Anyone could submit page(s) of dances, and CDSS would make no
> judgement as to the quality of the dances.  One might want to set up a
> mechanism so an author can edit the pages with her/his dances Visitors
> could then peruse any author's dances, and initiate discussion about
> specific dances on a forum similar to this one.

The design discussion for these features is in many ways completely
different from the basic database design discussion, with all kinds of
security/privacy issues.  They can be tacked on by competent programmers
more-or-less independently of the underlying database.  I strongly
recommend skipping it for now.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] New Dance: Dirty Rotten Double Crosser

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Sun, Jul 27, 2014, Don Veino via Callers wrote:
> 
> *Dirty Rotten Double Crosser* - DI - Don Veino 23 July 2014, Intermediate
> (Cross Trails)
> 
> *A1*
> (4,4) Ring Balance, Petronella Twirl
> (4,4) Ring Balance, Cross Trail (Pass N by Right across, P by Left up/down)

You definitely need to be careful explaining this -- I think of Cross
Trail as leaving dancers facing the same direction, although your variant
is also common.  (No idea which is more common, particularly given the
collapse of "Cross Trail" in general.)

If I were to call this, I would probably change it to Square Thru 2
(with/without hands) just to reuse vocabulary that dancers are more
likely to know.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] does this dance already exist?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014, Tepfer, Seth via Callers wrote:
>
> duple minor, improper:
> A1: (8) Circle Left; (8) Left hand Star 
> A2: (8) Partner DSD; (8) Neighbor DSD
> B1: (16) Neighbor balance and swing
> B2: (8) Long lines; (8)1s swing

Did you intend to reverse direction or should that be a right-hand star?
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] Yet more unknown dances!

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Sun, Jun 01, 2014, Maia McCormick via Callers wrote:
>
> A2: ladies bull by right to allemande partner L 3/4; shadow allemande 1 1/2

Just wanna say that I'd love to see that figure as written.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] choreography

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

[following up late after Memorial Day vacation]

On Fri, May 23, 2014, Donna Hunt wrote:
>
> Pass the ocean; Gents cross to opposite side and Ladies take left and
> turn 1/4
>
> Swing through; all turn your neighbor by the right 1/2 and then the
> gents pull by the left.  (Ladies stay where they are on the side of
> the set and then their partners pull by left to meet them)
>
> hope that's clearer.  

Not really  ;-)

These are not the definitions used in MWSD, and I would expect some
confusion unless you both made that clear to the dancers and taught
these moves carefully using your definitions.  Personally, I prefer the
MWSD definitions (with possibly some alteration for simplicity because
you know who the dancers are with your configuration):

Pass The Ocean: pass through, face partner, step to wave

Swing Thru: turn by right 1/2, turn by left 1/2 (i.e. in your case I'd
make this "neighbor turn by right 1/2, men turn by left 1/2")

If you actually really truly mean "pull by" in your definition above (as
opposed to the ending figure being still a wave), I strongly recommend
that you change the figure name to something other than "swing through".
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] Three Couples or Less Dances

[Aahz Maruch]

I was talking with one of my partners last night about this thread, and
zie suggested that if you actually had four couples, Postie's Jig might
work well.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
"Patience my ass.  I'm going to kill something."

Re: [Callers] Three Couples or Less Dances

[Aahz Maruch]

One more I haven't seen mentioned is an English country dance called
"Bare Necessities".  It's for three couples in a circle; I have no idea
where to find the music nor do I remember it well enough to describe it
(learned it many years ago folk dancing).  Maybe someone else here has a
pointer.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] ONS Plus Circle Mixers

[Aahz Maruch]

On Tue, Feb 25, 2014, Kalia Kliban wrote:
> On 2/25/2014 8:46 AM, Aahz Maruch wrote:
>>On Sun, Feb 23, 2014, Kalia Kliban wrote:
>>>
>>>And how about Levi Jackson Rag (5 cpls)?  It's not actually that
>>>hard, and uses basic figures in a fun way.  When a set gets through
>>>it for the first time it's a definite high-5 moment.
>>
>>Errrgh.  No.  ;-)  I mean, agreed on the high-5 bit, but I think of Levi
>>Jackson as being more difficult because of the pass-by-two star -- I've
>>seen way too many breakdowns there.  Combine that with the fast pace
>>(some do slow down the music, though), and just the generally odd
>>configuration, and I only recommend doing it with more experienced
>>dancers unless you want to spend a lot of time teaching it.
>>
>>The other problem with Levi Jackson is the same problem with square
>>dancing: you need exact multiples of five couples.
> 
> True, but the original poster mentioned a group of 5-10 couples, and
> also mentioned that this is a class rather than a standard social
> dance, so something that requires a bit more teaching might actually
> be a good fit.

Looks like you crossed the threads -- that's bad, very bad.  [*]

I think the thread you wanted for this bit was Ben Hornstein's "Social
Dance Club intro program".


[*] RIP, Harold Ramis, in case the joke wasn't obvious.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] ONS Plus Circle Mixers

[Aahz Maruch]

On Sun, Feb 23, 2014, Kalia Kliban wrote:
>
> I've used the Lancashire Reel with good success and it works fine
> with small-to-medium groups.  It's a double circle, gents facing
> out, ladies facing in.  I can't remember where I got this dance.
> Looking online, I see versions where the first dosido is the left
> shouldered-one.  I've found that starting with the "usual" shoulder
> works fine.
> 
> P dosido
> On L diagonal, L allemande and back to place.
> 
> P seesaw
> On R diagonal, R allemande and stay there (new P)
> 
> With new P, balance and swing
> 
> Promenade the ring, then gents face out, ladies face in.

That's a seesaw as in left-should gypsy?

> And how about Levi Jackson Rag (5 cpls)?  It's not actually that
> hard, and uses basic figures in a fun way.  When a set gets through
> it for the first time it's a definite high-5 moment.

Errrgh.  No.  ;-)  I mean, agreed on the high-5 bit, but I think of Levi
Jackson as being more difficult because of the pass-by-two star -- I've
seen way too many breakdowns there.  Combine that with the fast pace
(some do slow down the music, though), and just the generally odd
configuration, and I only recommend doing it with more experienced
dancers unless you want to spend a lot of time teaching it.

The other problem with Levi Jackson is the same problem with square
dancing: you need exact multiples of five couples.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Community

[Aahz Maruch]

On Mon, Feb 24, 2014, lynn ackerson wrote:
>
> This reminds me a lot of a situation in one of the nearby communities.
> There was a dancer who was openly rude to the other dancers and the
> callers in particular. An example would be from the floor calling
> the caller a Nazi. He was extremely disruptive, and I went to their
> board to request they do something about it since I would not feel
> comfortable calling there any more. They admitted that they had had a
> number of complaints about this dancer, but because contra communities
> are so inclusive, they couldn't ask him to leave. My question to them
> was whether it was more important to be inclusive to a very disruptive
> dancer and in turn lose many dancers (both new and long-term) due to
> his behavior; or ask him to leave for a period such as 6 months and
> subsequently building their dance community or at least reducing the
> probability of people (including callers) not returning.

Sounds like you're talking about the Geek Social Fallacies:

http://plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html

However, what you're talking about is sufficiently different in degree
from what Greg was doing as to be different in kind (particularly with
the example of "Nazi"), and I think it is unfair to bring that up in
relation to Greg.

(I have some thoughts about Greg, still debating with myself whether to
post them. ;-)
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Social Dance Club intro program

[Aahz Maruch]

September 19, of course


On Mon, Feb 24, 2014, Michael Fuerst wrote:
>
> Alan: Since when do we aargh on on right?
> 
> 
> On Monday, February 24, 2014 6:35 PM, Alan Winston 
>  wrote:
>  
> On 2/24/2014 2:48 PM, Alan Winston wrote:
> > If it were me I'd be inclined to do it somewhat differently.? (The
> > suggestions that have been made so far
> > are just fine, though.)
> >
> > First night:
> >
> > Circassian Circle Mixer
> >
> > (Or some other super-easy mixer with a swing in it.? Teaches listening
> > to the caller, doing things to the phrase, ending swings with the lady
> > on the left,
> 
> AARGH.? on the right.
> 
> >?  gets them used to changing partners rather than dancing
> > only with the one they came in with.? Since it's not a one-night stand
> > dance - that is, they're supposed to learn something - you want them
> > doing a contra-dance swing; this gets the experienced contra dancers
> > into the arms of as many people as possible right away.? Swings are
> > easier to do right once you've felt them being done right.)? This is a
> > dance that doesn't fail, so they'll feel successful right away.? Pretty
> > much immune to tune choice so long as the band is clear about phrasing.
> >
> > Big Circle
> >
> > A1:? Forward and back twice
> >
> > A2:? Women to center and back to place
> >? ? ? ? Men to center and back to woman originally on his left (not partner).
> >
> > B1:? They swing
> >
> > B2:? Promenade around, open to to big circle.
> >
> > [You might want to just have them swing their first partner and open up
> > facing in, and then tell them that they're done with that person and the
> > next partner is in their other hand]
> >
> >
> > Some kind of Sicilian Circle ideally with a partner swing and a neighbor
> > swing.? Gets them used to improper formation but without having to deal
> > with action at the ends of the set.? (Although it's not totally ideal, I
> > often use "Soldier's Joy", mostly because it's a Civil War era version
> > and I use it when I'm calling Civil War dances and then I don't have to
> > remember something else when I'm calling contras.)? Ladies chain along
> > rather than across the set is unusual but not terribly difficult.? I'm
> > certainly open to suggestions for better sicilian circle dances for this
> > purpose. This give some opportunity to discuss giving weight.
> >
> > SOLDIER'S JOY.
> > Sicilian Circle ("As for Spanish Dance") - that means facing the other
> > couple, gent on the left, lady on the right.
> > 32-bar reel.? The name tune is the best.
> >
> >
> > A1: 1-4: Forward and back
> >? ? ?  5-8: Opposites turn two hands (no progression), open facing partner
> >
> > A2: 1-8: Partners balance &swing, face other couple
> >
> > B1: 1-8: Ladies chain over and back (along the line).
> >
> > B2: 1-8: Forward and back, forward and pass through.
> >
> >
> > Then? Simplicity Swing (because they already know most of the bits and
> > the bits they don't know are circle, star, and do-si-do, which are
> > things many people think they know how to do even before their first
> > contra dance.)
> >
> > SIMPLICITY SWING
> > (by Becky Hill)
> > Improper contra
> >
> > Figs: NB&S:CL3/4:PS:LLF&B:LC:LHS:NNDSD:
> >
> >
> > A1: Neighbor Balance and Swing
> >
> > A2: Circle left 3/4;
> >? ? ?  partner swing
> >
> > B1: Long lines forward and back;
> >? ? ?  ladies chain
> >
> > B2: left hand star;
> >? ? ?  next neighbor do si do
> >
> >
> > And then you can do the rest of the? evening with easy to intermediate
> > longways dances.
> >
> >
> > Repeat this pattern (with different mixer and different Sicilian Circle)
> > the next time to get the brand new dancers swung and sweaty before they
> > have to learn much.
> >
> > -- Alan
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2/24/2014 8:50 AM, Ben Hornstein wrote:
> >> Greetings fellow callers,
> >>
> >> My graduate school's social dance club is going to be having a Contra
> >> night, which I will be calling. I was hoping to get some advice on how to
> >> structure the evening. Here's what I'm expecting:
> >>
> >> Two 2 hour events, on March 3 and 10
> >> 20-30 people, with maybe 5-8 who have danced contra before at all, 1-3 who
> >> I would consider experts
> >> The second week will most likely have people who did not come the first 
> >> week
> >> Minimal live band (who I have worked with before)
> >>
> >> Here's what I'm thinking so far:
> >> 1st dance: something simple without any swing to teach a few of the most
> >> basic moves
> >> 2nd dance: teach the swing, do an easy dance
> >> remaining dances: teach one new move before each dance, then do a dance
> >> that incorporates that move
> >>
> >> 2nd week: plan a generally easy program, but review moves as they come up
> >> (for those who missed the first week)
> >>
> >> I'm hoping for suggestions of specific dances that I should use, and ways
> >> to teach and handle a group with very few experienced dancers. How do I
> >> prevent the whole thing from falling apart? In general, I think they'll be

Re: [Callers] Forum vs email list?

[Aahz Maruch]

On Wed, Feb 19, 2014, John W Gintell wrote:
>
> A potential solution would be to replace it with a Google Group.
> People can choose to receive messages via email (digest or not) or
> view it as a group, or both.  An advantage is that if you want to
> revisit a discussion it is easier.

You can revisit discussions here using the archives.  And even before the
Snowden revelations, I already avoided Google as much as possible.

Honestly, it sounds like solutions in search of a problem.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] question about Disturbed By Insects

[Aahz Maruch]

On Wed, Feb 19, 2014, John Sweeney wrote:
>
> Note, with a small number of dancers it is often better to reverse the
> directions - Men push first.  Or you can just enjoy the crashes in
> the middle and make a joke about the ability of the ladies to steer!
> (As long as you are sure that no-one will be offended by such non-PC
> humour!)

Even if nobody is offended, why make such jokes in public?  Never know
when someone might be recording and post it later to YouTube...
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Forum vs email list?

[Aahz Maruch]

On Wed, Feb 19, 2014, Bree Kalb wrote:
>
> This feels like a good time to thank you, Chris, for setting up this
> list. 

Ditto!
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Forum vs email list?

[Aahz Maruch]

On Wed, Feb 19, 2014, Lindsay Morris wrote:
>
> Responses are coming in to the survey -
> will post results tomorrow.  You can vote
> here.

My suspicion is that the survey will be more biased toward the web forum
than replies to the list.  ;-)
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those
who have not got it."  --Shaw

Re: [Callers] Height diffferential

[Aahz Maruch]

On Tue, Feb 18, 2014, Les Addison wrote:
> 
> (though if anyone has tips for hand placement as a gent during a
> swing, I'm all ears.)

The point on the shoulder blade where your palm should be is roughly six
inches below the shoulder itself.  I generally try to aim for it by
starting with my hand a bit lower and bringing it up until my arm is just
below the armpit.  Starting that way also makes it easier for the woman
to place her arm over mine.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Height diffferential

[Aahz Maruch]

On Wed, Feb 19, 2014, Harold E. Watson wrote:
>
> Sometimes we'll hold a quick swing teach during a break.  I've always
> taught the gents to place their right hands between the ladies
> shoulder blades.  

The way I think of it, the man's right hand should be placed so that the
fingertips would be at or just past the woman's spine if the hand were
flat, but it should be slightly curved around the woman's shoulderblade.
That off-center spot helps if you're going to whirl at the end of the
swing (*not* pushing, but providing support and a *little* bit of guiding
pressure).

At speed -- and particularly given that I focus more on avoiding trapping
the woman's hair, I often don't get perfect placement, but I rarely get
bad placement.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Forum vs email list?

[Aahz Maruch]

On Wed, Feb 19, 2014, Lindsay Morris wrote:
>
> How many of us (you lurkers included) would be willing to see this forum
> move to a web-based forum?

Not at all willing.  If this list does move to a web forum, I'll
volunteer space to keep it running as e-mail.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Dances with three or more allemandes

[Aahz Maruch]

On Sun, Feb 16, 2014, Jerome Grisanti wrote:
> Aahz wrote to Erik:
>>
>> I have no idea what you mean by "guideposts", though; from my POV either
>> the thumbs are interlocked or they're not.  (If each person's thumb can
>> touch the other person's webbing between thumb and forefinger they're
>> interlocked.)
> 
> I believe most dancers can make a distinction between holding your
> hand in a position (e.g. with interlocking thumbs), and gripping based
> on that same position. How can we best communicate that difference?

Maybe they can make that distinction, but I sure can't based on what
you're writing here.  ;-)

What is the distinction/difference?
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Allemandes

[Aahz Maruch]

On Mon, Feb 17, 2014, Ron Blechner wrote:
> 
> The worst that happens with thumbs is my wrist is torqued. Sadly, this
> is a frequent occurrence for me, at least around many dances in the
> Northeast. I usually get torqued on average once a night, and I dance
> defensively.

The worst that I've heard of with thumbs is a jammed thumb.  I haven't
heard of anyone needing medical care, but I've heard of people getting
injured thumbs.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Dances with three or more allemandes

[Aahz Maruch]

On Sun, Feb 16, 2014, Erik Hoffman wrote:
> On 2/15/2014 10:32 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote:
>>On Sat, Feb 15, 2014, Michael Fuerst wrote:
>>>
>>>I should have said thumbs an wrapped around the other's hand.
>>>Interlocked was the wrong.
>>
>> I do know people who believe that interlocked thumbs are
>>correct, and I've been on a campaign to discourage the practice. ;-)
>
> So, Aahz, why do you want to eliminate it? I'm talking about the
> thumbs up as guideposts, fingers hooked around the others hand, a
> hook, not a grip, wrists straight, fingers curved. Is it just the
> safety issue? I play music. I teach music. I worry a lot about my
> hands! I have things I do to protect myself, and I don't let people
> grab and grip, or bend my wrist in some painful way.

Oddly enough, as has been pointed out here, you are a somewhat large-ish
man -- that means your personal safety requirements are not necessarily
what's appropriate for the general dancer population.

So yeah, it's pretty much all about safety from my POV.  Any kind of
spinning move out of allemande or wave risks yanking the thumb.  And
actually, my concern is more about waves than allemandes: the grip is
mostly the same for both and the spinning half-sashy is pretty much
standard these days.

I have no idea what you mean by "guideposts", though; from my POV either
the thumbs are interlocked or they're not.  (If each person's thumb can
touch the other person's webbing between thumb and forefinger they're
interlocked.)
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html