Re: [Callers] New contra dancers and similar figures

[Christopher Buck]

> This is likelier to happen if both partners are new, and likeliest to
happen if all four in that set are new.  But that couple that's new will
have that problem repeatedly.  When I see that I continue to prompt the
figures, maybe with more emphasis - Ladies CHAIN and COURTESY TURN  - and
it doesn't seem to make any difference.

When there are a couple of new people dancing together, there's not much
correct leading and learning going on within the couple.  Having dancers
new to contra mix it up with experienced dancers is useful here... I'd be
interested if anybody has any phrasing or methods that seem to make mixing
happen more often.

When in line with new dancers, it's pretty clear that they are paying far
more attention to the other people they are dancing with than the caller:
they often don't seem to be listening to the caller at all.  Which is
normal and good: one of the skills-that-will-make-the-dance-more-enjoyable
is to be able to follow what dancers in your quad and in your line.  That
does have it's downside, of course: I've seen half a line clue off each
other and do the B2 figures when the music was on A2.



On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 12:32 AM, Aahz Maruch  wrote:

> [chiming in late]
>
> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013, Alan Winston wrote:
> > On 6/21/2013 3:03 PM, Kalia Kliban wrote:
> >>
> >>I run into this periodically as well, and haven't found a way to
> >>verbally interrupt whatever's going on in their heads. It may be
> >>that they're so overloaded that further verbal info just can't get
> >>in.  [...]
> >
> > What makes me extra crazy is the people who are doing something
> > wrong that's obvious to an external observer, [...]
>
> I'll just remind you that *you*, Alan Winston, highly experienced dancer,
> couldn't remember to do a California Twirl in Panix Dot Chat.  ;-)  I'll
> admit that "pass thru, California Twirl" isn't seen much in contra
> dancing (I borrowed it from square dancing), but I was (and am) confused
> about why you made that mistake given that the next move is the highly
> natural "men left allemande".
>
> My point in bringing this up is that if highly experienced dancers get
> brain farts, certainly new dancers are more likely to get overloaded and
> forget things.
>
> Panix Dot Chat (a...@pobox.com)
>
> Becket formation
> Double-progression, better with odd number of couples
>
> Right-and-left thru on left diagonal (8)
> (Yes, start with progression)
> (Warn ends about not moving)
> Right-and-left thru new couple (8)
> Circle left 3/4 (8)
> Swing neighbor (8)
> Pass through (4)
> California twirl (4)
> Men left-hand turn once-and-half (8)
> Balance and swing partner (16)
> --
> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
> http://rule6.info/
>   <*>   <*>   <*>
> Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> call...@sharedweight.net
> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
>

Re: [Callers] New contra dancers and similar figures

[Aahz Maruch]

[chiming in late]

On Fri, Jun 21, 2013, Alan Winston wrote:
> On 6/21/2013 3:03 PM, Kalia Kliban wrote:
>>
>>I run into this periodically as well, and haven't found a way to
>>verbally interrupt whatever's going on in their heads. It may be
>>that they're so overloaded that further verbal info just can't get
>>in.  [...]
>
> What makes me extra crazy is the people who are doing something
> wrong that's obvious to an external observer, [...]

I'll just remind you that *you*, Alan Winston, highly experienced dancer,
couldn't remember to do a California Twirl in Panix Dot Chat.  ;-)  I'll
admit that "pass thru, California Twirl" isn't seen much in contra
dancing (I borrowed it from square dancing), but I was (and am) confused
about why you made that mistake given that the next move is the highly
natural "men left allemande".

My point in bringing this up is that if highly experienced dancers get
brain farts, certainly new dancers are more likely to get overloaded and
forget things.

Panix Dot Chat (a...@pobox.com)

Becket formation
Double-progression, better with odd number of couples

Right-and-left thru on left diagonal (8)
(Yes, start with progression)
(Warn ends about not moving)
Right-and-left thru new couple (8)
Circle left 3/4 (8)
Swing neighbor (8)
Pass through (4)
California twirl (4)
Men left-hand turn once-and-half (8)
Balance and swing partner (16)
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] New contra dancers and similar figures (Greg McKenzie)

[Alan Winston]

Donna --

I totally agree that we need to rely on and empower experienced dancers 
to teach figures.  What I'm talking about however is newcomers who 
seemed to have learned the figure in the walkthrough losing it after the 
dance starts and apparently unable to receive any input from caller or 
other dancers, and what can be done about that.


-- Alan


On 6/23/2013 10:06 PM, Donna Calhoun wrote:

I totally agree with Greg's suggestion to utilize your experienced dancers
in the training of newcomers. They can gently lead the individuals through
the figures which, from the stage, you can only describe.

However, you have to be able to reclaim the attention of all the dancers
when you are ready to proceed to the next figure. The last thing you need
is "teachers" talking over the caller and confusing the newcomers even
more. It is a slippery slope from asking them to help with figures to
having them talk over your walk-through.



 4. Re: New contra dancers and similar figures (Greg McKenzie)

Message: 4




Alan,

Thank you for this great question.  Situations like this are all too
common.  I see this as a problem of integration.  The core principle I use
is to remember that:

The caller always takes full responsibility for anything that happens in
the hall.

If first-timers are not integrated with the regulars, this is the caller's
problem, not the dancer's. At an open public contra dance, integration of
the hall can be seen as a primary indicator of how well the caller is doing
their job.  The opposite of integration is disintegration...and that is a
bad thing at contra dances.

So how can the caller assure full integration of the first-timers?  The
answer to that question gets at the heart of good contra dance calling, and
goes beyond the scope of this discussion because there are many, many
techniques, strategies, and skills that affect this complex goal.  Much of
it has to do with building the confidence of the dancers.

The ideal situation is that the regulars feel confident and enthusiastic
about partnering with first-timers and look forward to that as one of the
primary reasons they attend the dance.  The goal is to make dancing with
first-timers *more *fun than dancing with other regulars.

I think most callers start calling because they really enjoy teaching
dance.  This is all well and good.  But we need to remember that the
regular dancers enjoy this process as much as the caller.  One key to
achieving full integration is to empower the regulars to become leaders who
have a key role in the process of welcoming newcomers.  That means building
their confidence through precise, clear calling and structuring your calls
so that the regulars--as well as the first-timers--get the information they
need at just the moment they need it.

The caller has the resource of dozens of intelligent and helpful hands on
the dance floor that are more than willing to help the caller *show *the
dancers all of the moves.  My experience is that when the caller uses that
resource skillfully, the regular dancers respond immediately with boundless
enthusiasm.  The excitement of seeing your partner "swept in" to the
excitement of contra dancing is an ecstatic one.  We all remember that.
When other regulars see how this process is working most of them will,
naturally, want to be a part of it and are much more likely to partner with
a first-timer for the next dance.

Part of this strategy is to be willing to "step back" and allow the
regulars to take th lead role in this process.

I would like to hear how other callers use this strategy in their calling.

Greg McKenzie
West Coast, USA



On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Alan Winston 

Re: [Callers] New contra dancers and similar figures

[Dale Wilson]

I love Perry's response.

When I teach a beginners' workshop I try to make the point very clear:  If
you end up in the right place facing the right direction, you did it fine.
  If you are confused just listen to the dancers around you.  They will be
gently and kindly pointing you in the right direction.

Since we do our workshops "in public" (I'm a big fan of that -- I hate
sending the newbies off to another room so they don't get in the way of the
pros.) my message is also aimed at the experienced dancers.  I want to
reinforce the "gently and kindly" part in their minds.

I, too, have tried to fix problems by calling forcefully.  The ones who
need to hear it are the ones who are too overwhelmed to listen.

Dale


On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 8:41 AM, Greg McKenzie  wrote:

> Alan,
>
> Thank you for this great question.  Situations like this are all too
> common.  I see this as a problem of integration.  The core principle I use
> is to remember that:
>
> The caller always takes full responsibility for anything that happens in
> the hall.
>
> If first-timers are not integrated with the regulars, this is the caller's
> problem, not the dancer's. At an open public contra dance, integration of
> the hall can be seen as a primary indicator of how well the caller is doing
> their job.  The opposite of integration is disintegration...and that is a
> bad thing at contra dances.
>
> So how can the caller assure full integration of the first-timers?  The
> answer to that question gets at the heart of good contra dance calling, and
> goes beyond the scope of this discussion because there are many, many
> techniques, strategies, and skills that affect this complex goal.  Much of
> it has to do with building the confidence of the dancers.
>
> The ideal situation is that the regulars feel confident and enthusiastic
> about partnering with first-timers and look forward to that as one of the
> primary reasons they attend the dance.  The goal is to make dancing with
> first-timers *more *fun than dancing with other regulars.
>
> I think most callers start calling because they really enjoy teaching
> dance.  This is all well and good.  But we need to remember that the
> regular dancers enjoy this process as much as the caller.  One key to
> achieving full integration is to empower the regulars to become leaders who
> have a key role in the process of welcoming newcomers.  That means building
> their confidence through precise, clear calling and structuring your calls
> so that the regulars--as well as the first-timers--get the information they
> need at just the moment they need it.
>
> The caller has the resource of dozens of intelligent and helpful hands on
> the dance floor that are more than willing to help the caller *show *the
> dancers all of the moves.  My experience is that when the caller uses that
> resource skillfully, the regular dancers respond immediately with boundless
> enthusiasm.  The excitement of seeing your partner "swept in" to the
> excitement of contra dancing is an ecstatic one.  We all remember that.
> When other regulars see how this process is working most of them will,
> naturally, want to be a part of it and are much more likely to partner with
> a first-timer for the next dance.
>
> Part of this strategy is to be willing to "step back" and allow the
> regulars to take th lead role in this process.
>
> I would like to hear how other callers use this strategy in their calling.
>
> Greg McKenzie
> West Coast, USA
>
> 
>
> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Alan Winston  >wrote:
>
> > Gang --
> >
> > Wasn't really sure of the subject line, but thought I might as well not
> > say "memetic entrapment" because who would want to read it?
> >
> > Anyway, a phenomenon I've noticed several times over the years is that
> > some fraction of people who were in a beginner workshop and who in the
> > walkthrough of the dance were able to do something like "women chain to
> > partner, women allemande 1x, partner balance and swing" are no longer
> able
> > to do it, instead pretty reliably doing "women pull by, partner swing"
> and
> > confusion.  [That one's recoverable, although if they then stop swinging
> > early and move on to the after-the-swing figure it can require
> attention.]
> >
> > This is likelier to happen if both partners are new, and likeliest to
> > happen if all four in that set are new.  But that couple that's new will
> > have that problem repeatedly.  When I see that I continue to prompt the
> > figures, maybe with more emphasis - Ladies CHAIN and COURTESY TURN  - and
> > it doesn't seem to make any difference.
> >
> > (I'm reminded of something that happens to beginning English dancers.
> >  "Back to back" (non-spinning do-si-do) and "Cross and go below" start
> the
> > same way - striding out to pass partner by the right shoulder.  If
> there's
> > a do-si-do in dance #1 and a "Cross and go below" in dance #2, they'll 

Re: [Callers] New contra dancers and similar figures

[Greg McKenzie]

Alan,

Thank you for this great question.  Situations like this are all too
common.  I see this as a problem of integration.  The core principle I use
is to remember that:

The caller always takes full responsibility for anything that happens in
the hall.

If first-timers are not integrated with the regulars, this is the caller's
problem, not the dancer's. At an open public contra dance, integration of
the hall can be seen as a primary indicator of how well the caller is doing
their job.  The opposite of integration is disintegration...and that is a
bad thing at contra dances.

So how can the caller assure full integration of the first-timers?  The
answer to that question gets at the heart of good contra dance calling, and
goes beyond the scope of this discussion because there are many, many
techniques, strategies, and skills that affect this complex goal.  Much of
it has to do with building the confidence of the dancers.

The ideal situation is that the regulars feel confident and enthusiastic
about partnering with first-timers and look forward to that as one of the
primary reasons they attend the dance.  The goal is to make dancing with
first-timers *more *fun than dancing with other regulars.

I think most callers start calling because they really enjoy teaching
dance.  This is all well and good.  But we need to remember that the
regular dancers enjoy this process as much as the caller.  One key to
achieving full integration is to empower the regulars to become leaders who
have a key role in the process of welcoming newcomers.  That means building
their confidence through precise, clear calling and structuring your calls
so that the regulars--as well as the first-timers--get the information they
need at just the moment they need it.

The caller has the resource of dozens of intelligent and helpful hands on
the dance floor that are more than willing to help the caller *show *the
dancers all of the moves.  My experience is that when the caller uses that
resource skillfully, the regular dancers respond immediately with boundless
enthusiasm.  The excitement of seeing your partner "swept in" to the
excitement of contra dancing is an ecstatic one.  We all remember that.
When other regulars see how this process is working most of them will,
naturally, want to be a part of it and are much more likely to partner with
a first-timer for the next dance.

Part of this strategy is to be willing to "step back" and allow the
regulars to take th lead role in this process.

I would like to hear how other callers use this strategy in their calling.

Greg McKenzie
West Coast, USA



On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Alan Winston wrote:

> Gang --
>
> Wasn't really sure of the subject line, but thought I might as well not
> say "memetic entrapment" because who would want to read it?
>
> Anyway, a phenomenon I've noticed several times over the years is that
> some fraction of people who were in a beginner workshop and who in the
> walkthrough of the dance were able to do something like "women chain to
> partner, women allemande 1x, partner balance and swing" are no longer able
> to do it, instead pretty reliably doing "women pull by, partner swing" and
> confusion.  [That one's recoverable, although if they then stop swinging
> early and move on to the after-the-swing figure it can require attention.]
>
> This is likelier to happen if both partners are new, and likeliest to
> happen if all four in that set are new.  But that couple that's new will
> have that problem repeatedly.  When I see that I continue to prompt the
> figures, maybe with more emphasis - Ladies CHAIN and COURTESY TURN  - and
> it doesn't seem to make any difference.
>
> (I'm reminded of something that happens to beginning English dancers.
>  "Back to back" (non-spinning do-si-do) and "Cross and go below" start the
> same way - striding out to pass partner by the right shoulder.  If there's
> a do-si-do in dance #1 and a "Cross and go below" in dance #2, they'll do
> the cross and go below in the walkthrough once they get the idea, but once
> the dance is up and running, when it comes time for that move they'll try
> to do-si-do, with resultant levels of chaos.  That one has the obvious
> feature that even if half of the partnership is doing it right the other
> half can't see them, so there's no feedback about anything going wrong
> until the 2s move up to fill the spot that one of the 1s is still in, or
> only one of the 2s moves up, or neither of the 2s moves up.)
>
> This either doesn't happen to dancers who have been coming for a while or
> is corrected quickly if it does, maybe by noticing what everybody else in
> the line is doing.
>
> My hypothesis is that these are people who are still drinking from the
> firehose.  (The first time you come you hear everything important about
> contra dancing and probably get exposed to half or more of the common
> figures.  It's a big cognitive load.  The second 

Re: [Callers] New contra dancers and similar figures

[Paul Wilde]

Jim,

OMG what a great post.  You have so hit the nail on the head and presented
it so eloquently.

I believe good dancers who are community oriented (rather than dance gypsy
jaded, as Joelaine so brilliantly points out in her home page post on
gmail) are going to be just fine w/ the caller choosing appropriate dances
for the crowd.  Just 2 days ago I called a relatively new dance series that
vacillates between mostly experienced one month to having a large group of
first timers showing up the next.  This Wed. there were a number of first
timers who were retirement age and beyond.  I could have kissed all the
experienced people for their patience, understanding, and having a great
time even though the first half of the program was pretty tame compared to
usual.  I'm happy to say, the new people were having a blast and wanted to
do it again.  Phew!!

Paul

PS  I called several dances that night that have sat unused in my file for
several years.




> I think we can keep two things in mind at the same time:
>
>   (1) Dancing with the feeling that you know what you're
>   doing is usually more fun that milling around with
>   a feeling of confusion.  Things like choosing
>   dances appropriate to the crowd, teaching clearly,
>   and building dancer's skill can be good because
>   they add to the fun.
>
>   (2) What's even less fun than milling around in confusion
>   is milling around in confusion and feeling that the
>   caller and/or the other dancers are upset about it.
>   Stuff about dance skills and "doing it right"
>   shouldn't take precedence over fun.
>
> As callers we can aim both to keep the amount of confusion
> low and to set a gracious tone towards whatever confusion
> may still arise.  (Doing the opposite of both these things
> is unfortunately easy:  Just pick inappropriate dances,
> teach and call them poorly, and then bark at the dancers
> when the inevitable confusion arises.)
>
> --Jim
>
>
> __**_
> Callers mailing list
> call...@sharedweight.net
> http://www.sharedweight.net/**mailman/listinfo/callers
>

Re: [Callers] New contra dancers and similar figures

[James Saxe]

On Jun 21, 2013, at 5:03 PM, Kalia Kliban wrote:


On 6/21/2013 4:08 PM, James Saxe wrote:

As callers we can aim both to keep the amount of confusion
low and to set a gracious tone towards whatever confusion
may still arise.  (Doing the opposite of both these things
is unfortunately easy:  Just pick inappropriate dances,
teach and call them poorly, and then bark at the dancers
when the inevitable confusion arises.)

--Jim


Well said.  My challenge at the moment is to deal with my own  
exasperation with certain dancers.  It's not the problem of the  
dancers.  It's mine.  But sometimes, hoo boy...


Kalia


I, too, am well aware that I don't always live up to the
ideal I suggest above.  It's sure worth working toward,
though.

--Jim

Re: [Callers] New contra dancers and similar figures

[Kalia Kliban]

On 6/21/2013 4:08 PM, James Saxe wrote:

As callers we can aim both to keep the amount of confusion
low and to set a gracious tone towards whatever confusion
may still arise.  (Doing the opposite of both these things
is unfortunately easy:  Just pick inappropriate dances,
teach and call them poorly, and then bark at the dancers
when the inevitable confusion arises.)

--Jim


Well said.  My challenge at the moment is to deal with my own 
exasperation with certain dancers.  It's not the problem of the dancers. 
 It's mine.  But sometimes, hoo boy...


Kalia

Re: [Callers] New contra dancers and similar figures

[James Saxe]

On Jun 21, 2013, at 12:52 PM, Alan Winston wrote:

..., a phenomenon I've noticed several times over the years is that  
some fraction of people who were in a beginner workshop and who in  
the walkthrough of the dance were able to do something like "women  
chain to partner, women allemande 1x, partner balance and swing" are  
no longer able to do it, instead pretty reliably doing "women pull  
by, partner swing" and confusion.  ...


My hypothesis is that these are people who are still drinking from  
the firehose.  ...  They're not ignoring the caller, per se, but  
they don't have CPU left over to process the prompts and in any case  
the words aren't really meaning anything to them yet; ...


[Also happy to hear alternative views of what's going on inside  
these people.)


Alan, I think your drinking-from-the-firehose hypothesis has a lot
of merit.  Sometimes people have very specific misunderstandings
of how specific figures work or of the callers' words, but other
time they may just have a a general sense of being overwhelmed and
may not even be aware of what the caller is saying.

In the specific case "women chain ..." vs. "women pull by, partner
swing ...", there may be a specific misunderstanding contributing
to the confusion:  The dancers involved may be treating "turn" or
"courtesy turn" and "swing" as synonyms.  You and I understand
that a courtesy turn is done with dancers side bu side, facing the
same direction as they turn ccw [as seen from above] and that a
swing involves dancers being pretty much face-to-face and rotating
cw.  But a new dancer may hear both terms as meaning "take hold of
each other and turn around somehow."  I've also occasionally
seen new dancers do a swing in place of an allemande--for example
in response to a call like "turn the on the right with a right hand
round" after a balance in long waves.  (Saying "right **HAND**!!"
doesn't help.)

In programming a dance evening, I try to make sure the first dance
with a ladies chain has the courtesy turn be with a neighbor (or
that it's a chain over and back, so you do at least one of the
courtesy turns with a neighbor).

Perry Shafran suggested:

My view is to just not sweat it.  I realize at the very start that  
many new dancers don't have the CPU to process too much stuff -  
especially if you are burdening them not only new dance moves but  
also terminology that they have never heard before as well.  If such  
moves are not breaking down the line (if you do a swing rather than  
a courtesy turn you'll still wind up in the right spot at the very  
end), it's nothing that I sweat at.  I know that some folks might  
complain that they won't get any better unless you get them doing it  
right - but they really didn't come dancing to learn so much  
confusing stuff.  They came to move to music with other people.  Let  
them.  Let them muddle through.  Dancers are generally friendly  
people and the experienced dancers will guide them.



I think we can keep two things in mind at the same time:

  (1) Dancing with the feeling that you know what you're
  doing is usually more fun that milling around with
  a feeling of confusion.  Things like choosing
  dances appropriate to the crowd, teaching clearly,
  and building dancer's skill can be good because
  they add to the fun.

  (2) What's even less fun than milling around in confusion
  is milling around in confusion and feeling that the
  caller and/or the other dancers are upset about it.
  Stuff about dance skills and "doing it right"
  shouldn't take precedence over fun.

As callers we can aim both to keep the amount of confusion
low and to set a gracious tone towards whatever confusion
may still arise.  (Doing the opposite of both these things
is unfortunately easy:  Just pick inappropriate dances,
teach and call them poorly, and then bark at the dancers
when the inevitable confusion arises.)

--Jim

Re: [Callers] New contra dancers and similar figures

[Alan Winston]

On 6/21/2013 3:03 PM, Kalia Kliban wrote:
I run into this periodically as well, and haven't found a way to 
verbally interrupt whatever's going on in their heads. It may be that 
they're so overloaded that further verbal info just can't get in. I've 
had some success with going onto the floor and physically guiding 
folks through a move (easier with English than with contra, simply 
because there's more space in the dance in which to insert myself 
without being an obstacle). I've often found that even standing 
directly in their line of vision and pointing straight up or down the 
set (say, for 4 changes of a circular hey) doesn't work. It's like 
they're specifically excluding _any_ outside input, which makes my job 
very challenging. It's especially difficult in that situation to be 
fair to the rest of the room, who may also need some guidance, if all 
my attention is on keeping the trainwreck-in-progress from happening. 
Tough situation. Much harder when I'm calling from a stage and can't 
really get onto the floor. Kalia 



We have some very similar experiences in this regard.

I've had good luck with couples who aren't getting that 
down-the-center-and-back-and-cast-off includes casting off by getting in 
their way and pointing with both hands.  Not so good luck with people 
who do quarter-figure-eights.  And of course I won't even try that stuff 
if I'm stuck behind a microphone on a stage. (Around here, as Kalia 
knows, an English caller will only be in that situation if he or she is 
calling a ball, where you can make an assumption that most of the people 
in the room know very well what they're doing and if somebody loses it 
their neighbors will fix it. And you_have_ to make that assumption, 
because you can't really do anything about it.)


What makes me extra crazy is the people who are doing something wrong 
that's obvious to an external observer, which then leaves them in the 
wrong place.  (Eg, if you're doing Regency-era dances, the stock ending 
of four changes of rights and lefts, where a couple forgets to start on 
time, only do three changes, and are puzzled by being left improper when 
they start the next round.  Which is only one of a half-dozen failure 
modes seen in the wild in rights and lefts - make a half-turn instead of 
a pull-by and be left facing the wrong way, baffled about where your 
next person is; try to go back the way you came after two turns; pull by 
right with partner and then reach left hand across the center of the set 
to the next person and then have no idea how to get home, etc, etc, 
etc.)  So you get in there and you somehow get enough of their attention 
to get them to do it in a way which will leave them in the expected 
place at the expected time, and they hold on to that for maybe one round 
and then they lose it again.


-- Alan

Re: [Callers] New contra dancers and similar figures

[Kalia Kliban]

On 6/21/2013 1:44 PM, John Sweeney wrote:

Alan said, "I continue to prompt the figures, maybe with more emphasis -
Ladies CHAIN and COURTESY TURN - and it doesn't seem to make any
difference."

_ If they are having problems then I get them to practice the courtesy
turn: "Ladies, stand beside your partner/neighbour, offer your left hand
in front and make like a teapot with your right hand;


Great image, excellent shorthand for that position.

Kalia

Re: [Callers] New contra dancers and similar figures

[Kalia Kliban]

On 6/21/2013 12:52 PM, Alan Winston wrote:

My hypothesis is that these are people who are still drinking from the
firehose.


I _love_ this image.

(The first time you come you hear everything important about

contra dancing and probably get exposed to half or more of the common
figures.  It's a big cognitive load.  The second time you hear the same
things again and get exposed to many fewer new-to-you figures, and by
the third time you might be successfully associating the figures with
the names - the flow of novelty is at a trickle and easy to absorb.)
They're not ignoring the caller, per se, but they don't have CPU left
over to process the prompts and in any case the words aren't really
meaning anything to them yet; if a prompt changes what they're doing
they're going to take four-six beats to get organized enough to respond
to the prompt.  )

This will get sorted out if they keep coming back, probably.  But they
may be less likely to return if they were confused and overstretched
through the whole evening, and this is the kind of thing that leaves you
confused.

What do you guys do about this kind of thing?  I already keep prompting
clearly and in a timely way, refrain from shouting "No!" over the
microphone,  don't lose my cool (a place that took me a while to get to,
incidentally).  What else can I do to help these people succeed?


I run into this periodically as well, and haven't found a way to 
verbally interrupt whatever's going on in their heads.  It may be that 
they're so overloaded that further verbal info just can't get in.  I've 
had some success with going onto the floor and physically guiding folks 
through a move (easier with English than with contra, simply because 
there's more space in the dance in which to insert myself without being 
an obstacle).  I've often found that even standing directly in their 
line of vision and pointing straight up or down the set (say, for 4 
changes of a circular hey) doesn't work.  It's like they're specifically 
excluding _any_ outside input, which makes my job very challenging. 
It's especially difficult in that situation to be fair to the rest of 
the room, who may also need some guidance, if all my attention is on 
keeping the trainwreck-in-progress from happening.


Tough situation.  Much harder when I'm calling from a stage and can't 
really get onto the floor.


Kalia

Re: [Callers] New contra dancers and similar figures

[Perry Shafran]

My view is to just not sweat it.  I realize at the very start that many new 
dancers don't have the CPU to process too much stuff - especially if you are 
burdening them not only new dance moves but also terminology that they have 
never heard before as well.  If such moves are not breaking down the line (if 
you do a swing rather than a courtesy turn you'll still wind up in the right 
spot at the very end), it's nothing that I sweat at.  I know that some folks 
might complain that they won't get any better unless you get them doing it 
right - but they really didn't come dancing to learn so much confusing stuff.  
They came to move to music with other people.  Let them.  Let them muddle 
through.  Dancers are generally friendly people and the experienced dancers 
will guide them.  

I have heard other callers say to dancers there is no right or wrong way to do 
moves - just "different interpretations".  I kind of like that.  We should be 
doing more to put new dancers at ease and not make them feel bad for making 
mistakes.  Emphasize fun over the correctness of moves and they might want to 
come back and eventually learn the moves.  

Perry





 From: Alan Winston 
To: Caller's discussion list  
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 3:52 PM
Subject: [Callers] New contra dancers and similar figures
 

Gang --

Wasn't really sure of the subject line, but thought I might as well not 
say "memetic entrapment" because who would want to read it?

Anyway, a phenomenon I've noticed several times over the years is that 
some fraction of people who were in a beginner workshop and who in the 
walkthrough of the dance were able to do something like "women chain to 
partner, women allemande 1x, partner balance and swing" are no longer 
able to do it, instead pretty reliably doing "women pull by, partner 
swing" and confusion.  [That one's recoverable, although if they then 
stop swinging early and move on to the after-the-swing figure it can 
require attention.]

This is likelier to happen if both partners are new, and likeliest to 
happen if all four in that set are new.  But that couple that's new will 
have that problem repeatedly.  When I see that I continue to prompt the 
figures, maybe with more emphasis - Ladies CHAIN and COURTESY TURN  - 
and it doesn't seem to make any difference.

(I'm reminded of something that happens to beginning English dancers.  
"Back to back" (non-spinning do-si-do) and "Cross and go below" start 
the same way - striding out to pass partner by the right shoulder.  If 
there's a do-si-do in dance #1 and a "Cross and go below" in dance #2, 
they'll do the cross and go below in the walkthrough once they get the 
idea, but once the dance is up and running, when it comes time for that 
move they'll try to do-si-do, with resultant levels of chaos.  That one 
has the obvious feature that even if half of the partnership is doing it 
right the other half can't see them, so there's no feedback about 
anything going wrong until the 2s move up to fill the spot that one of 
the 1s is still in, or only one of the 2s moves up, or neither of the 2s 
moves up.)

This either doesn't happen to dancers who have been coming for a while 
or is corrected quickly if it does, maybe by noticing what everybody 
else in the line is doing.

My hypothesis is that these are people who are still drinking from the 
firehose.  (The first time you come you hear everything important about 
contra dancing and probably get exposed to half or more of the common 
figures.  It's a big cognitive load.  The second time you hear the same 
things again and get exposed to many fewer new-to-you figures, and by 
the third time you might be successfully associating the figures with 
the names - the flow of novelty is at a trickle and easy to absorb.)  
They're not ignoring the caller, per se, but they don't have CPU left 
over to process the prompts and in any case the words aren't really 
meaning anything to them yet; if a prompt changes what they're doing 
they're going to take four-six beats to get organized enough to respond 
to the prompt.  )

This will get sorted out if they keep coming back, probably.  But they 
may be less likely to return if they were confused and overstretched 
through the whole evening, and this is the kind of thing that leaves you 
confused.

What do you guys do about this kind of thing?  I already keep prompting 
clearly and in a timely way, refrain from shouting "No!" over the 
microphone,  don't lose my cool (a place that took me a while to get to, 
incidentally).  What else can I do to help these people succeed?

[Also happy to hear alternative views of what's going on inside these 
people.)

-- Alan

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