Re: Bendix G-15 [was: Re: VCF PNW 2018: Pictures!]

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 02/19/2018 02:26 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

On 02/19/2018 11:48 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:

Even more to bring one back on-line, which is why it's impractical
to restore in the foreseeable future.

I can't even imagine the effort it would take to get a 7090 or 7094
operating again using volunteer labor.

--Chuck


Yup.  I don't know how much logic is in a 1401, but probably 
in between 500 and 1000 SMS cards.  Apparently, getting the 
CHM 1401 running was a multi-year project.  The 7094 has 
11,000 SMS cards!!! Completely beyond comprehension.  Given 
the technology, I'm not sure how IBM kept these running when 
NEW with a box of spare cards on site.  And, given how my 
uVAX-II deteriorated over only 21 years of use (biggest 
problem was the backplane finger contacts slowly got 
unreliable), I can't imagine what kind of HELL one would go 
through with 11,000 circuit cards!  Holy Moly!


Jon

Re: VCF PNW 2018: Pictures!

[Charles Anthony via cctalk]

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 5:02 PM, geneb via cctalk 
wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Feb 2018, Charles Anthony wrote:
>
>
>>
>>>
>>> The emulator is running on a Intel Nuc, not a PI.  Also, I was one of a
>> group that wrote the emulator, I can't take credit for the whole thing.
>>
>
> I could have sworn someone said it was a Raspberry Pi.  My apologies!


No problem.

The emulator will run on the Pi, but *horribly* slowly. Analysis indicates
a very high cache miss rate, which is an ARM killer. Reorganizing data
structures would probably help a lot. GCC has a code reordering feature
which would probably also help. I haven't been able to locate any cache
optimization tools other than valgrind, which makes the code run more
slowly than I am prepared to deal with. I keep thinking that it might be
possible to do a sampling approach -- periodically capture the instruction
counter and the addresses in the cache and try to build up a map of memory
access patterns; use that as a guide to reordering.

-- Charles

Re: VCF PNW 2018: Pictures!

[geneb via cctalk]

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018, Charles Anthony wrote:


On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 6:44 AM, geneb via cctalk 
wrote:


On Sun, 18 Feb 2018, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:

What do they have up there for Honeywell?  Any DPS-8’s?  I know they

should have at least a box of GCOS-8 manuals (in hindsight, the only
manuals I regret sending up there).



Zane, they've got a DPS-8 maintenance/operator/? panel sitting right out
front.  It's fully operational and is connected via some magic hardware to
a Raspberry Pi running a Multics emulator. The guy that wrote the emulator
gave a talk that should be the first one you watch once Erik has a chance
to get the video posted.



The emulator is running on a Intel Nuc, not a PI.  Also, I was one of a
group that wrote the emulator, I can't take credit for the whole thing.


I could have sworn someone said it was a Raspberry Pi.  My apologies!

g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: VCF PNW 2018: Pictures!

[Adrian Stoness via cctalk]

whats invovled in makin an emulator?
i have a chunk of stuff for the phillips p1000

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 5:57 PM, Charles Anthony via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 6:44 AM, geneb via cctalk 
> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 18 Feb 2018, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
> >
> > What do they have up there for Honeywell?  Any DPS-8’s?  I know they
> >> should have at least a box of GCOS-8 manuals (in hindsight, the only
> >> manuals I regret sending up there).
> >>
> >
> > Zane, they've got a DPS-8 maintenance/operator/? panel sitting right out
> > front.  It's fully operational and is connected via some magic hardware
> to
> > a Raspberry Pi running a Multics emulator. The guy that wrote the
> emulator
> > gave a talk that should be the first one you watch once Erik has a chance
> > to get the video posted.
> >
> >
> The emulator is running on a Intel Nuc, not a PI.  Also, I was one of a
> group that wrote the emulator, I can't take credit for the whole thing.
>
> -- Charles
>

Re: VCF PNW 2018: Pictures!

[Charles Anthony via cctalk]

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 6:44 AM, geneb via cctalk 
wrote:

> On Sun, 18 Feb 2018, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
>
> What do they have up there for Honeywell?  Any DPS-8’s?  I know they
>> should have at least a box of GCOS-8 manuals (in hindsight, the only
>> manuals I regret sending up there).
>>
>
> Zane, they've got a DPS-8 maintenance/operator/? panel sitting right out
> front.  It's fully operational and is connected via some magic hardware to
> a Raspberry Pi running a Multics emulator. The guy that wrote the emulator
> gave a talk that should be the first one you watch once Erik has a chance
> to get the video posted.
>
>
The emulator is running on a Intel Nuc, not a PI.  Also, I was one of a
group that wrote the emulator, I can't take credit for the whole thing.

-- Charles

Re: Seeking RL02K cartridge

[Aaron Jackson via cctalk]

>>
>> I posted some pictures of the process here:
>>
>> http://aaronsplace.co.uk/blog/2018-02-19-repairing-crashed-RL02-heads.html
>>
> Looking at the pictures of the heads before and after I am struggling to see
> a difference. What am I looking for?
>
> Regards
>
> Rob

If you click on the image and load the full sized image, you should be
able to see some orange stuff from the coating on the platter on the
heads. There isn't a lot, but it was enough to crash when I loaded a
pack it seems.  Cleaning with IPA and swabs, without the heat, wasn't
enough to get it off.

Best,
Aaron

RE: Seeking RL02K cartridge

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Aaron
> Jackson via cctalk
> Sent: 19 February 2018 22:28
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Seeking RL02K cartridge
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Inspired by CuriousMarc's recent video, I cleaned and fixed my RL02 heads.
Not
> with an ultrasonic cleaner unfortunately, but in a warm IPA bath. It
worked!
> Loading a crashed pack is obviously not a good idea, although I cleaned
the
> cartridge well, and figured with bad heads and a bad pack, I might as well
try
> it. The heads no longer crash and appear clean after loading, but the
cartridge,
> of course, cannot be read as the first track has been destroyed from the
initial
> crash. I think the crash was cause by bad heads before I got the RL02
drive.
> 
> I posted some pictures of the process here:
> 
> http://aaronsplace.co.uk/blog/2018-02-19-repairing-crashed-RL02-heads.html
> 


Looking at the pictures of the heads before and after I am struggling to see
a difference. What am I looking for?

Regards

Rob


> I am wondering if anyone would be willing to sell me an RL02K cartridge
for a
> sensible price?
> 
> After the cleaning I am guessing my alignment will be slightly off, but
from
> what I have read in the manual, this is will probably just result in the
read/write
> speed being reduced as the heads have to move slightly when switching
> between either side of the platter. Am I right in thinking this or
completely
> wrong?
> 
> Thanks,
> Aaron.
> 
> --
> Aaron Jackson
> PhD Student, Computer Vision Laboratory, Uni of Nottingham
> http://aaronsplace.co.uk

Seeking RL02K cartridge

[Aaron Jackson via cctalk]

Hi all,

Inspired by CuriousMarc's recent video, I cleaned and fixed my RL02
heads. Not with an ultrasonic cleaner unfortunately, but in a warm IPA
bath. It worked! Loading a crashed pack is obviously not a good idea,
although I cleaned the cartridge well, and figured with bad heads and a
bad pack, I might as well try it. The heads no longer crash and appear
clean after loading, but the cartridge, of course, cannot be read as the
first track has been destroyed from the initial crash. I think the crash
was cause by bad heads before I got the RL02 drive.

I posted some pictures of the process here:

http://aaronsplace.co.uk/blog/2018-02-19-repairing-crashed-RL02-heads.html

I am wondering if anyone would be willing to sell me an RL02K cartridge
for a sensible price?

After the cleaning I am guessing my alignment will be slightly off, but
from what I have read in the manual, this is will probably just result
in the read/write speed being reduced as the heads have to move slightly
when switching between either side of the platter. Am I right in
thinking this or completely wrong?

Thanks,
Aaron.

--
Aaron Jackson
PhD Student, Computer Vision Laboratory, Uni of Nottingham
http://aaronsplace.co.uk

Re: Bendix G-15 [was: Re: VCF PNW 2018: Pictures!]

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 02/19/2018 11:48 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
> Even more to bring one back on-line, which is why it's impractical
> to restore in the foreseeable future.

I can't even imagine the effort it would take to get a 7090 or 7094
operating again using volunteer labor.

--Chuck

Re: Bendix G-15 [was: Re: VCF PNW 2018: Pictures!]

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

Even more to bring one back on-line, which is why it's impractical
to restore in the foreseeable future.

On 2/19/18 10:25 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

>> A 7094? Neat! Very historic machine.
>>
>>
> Gotta have a LOT of space to house one of those!
> 
> Jon

Re: Bendix G-15 [was: Re: VCF PNW 2018: Pictures!]

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 02/19/2018 08:45 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:

 > From: Al Kossow

 >> On 2/18/18 12:20 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:

 >> ... his 709 went to the CHM. Anything else of the big stuff?

 > the 7094 and 650

A 7094? Neat! Very historic machine.



Gotta have a LOT of space to house one of those!

Jon

Re: Bendix G-15 [was: Re: VCF PNW 2018: Pictures!]

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 2/19/18 6:45 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:

> I wonder if it would be possible to fabricate the extras needed to run CTSS

No point, because we aren't going to restore it.

Ferut computer

[Diane Bruce via cctalk]

I just stumbled over this page this morning. Wow.
Fascinating story!

http://ferut.ca/my-story/


-- 
- d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://www.db.net/~db

Re: VCF PNW 2018: Pictures!

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: geneb

> they've got a DPS-8 maintenance/operator/? panel ... It's fully
> operational and is connected via some magic hardware to a Raspberry Pi
> running a Multics emulator.

Technically it's an H6180; the DPS-8 is a later generation of hardware in the
same family. More here:

  http://www.chiappa.net/~jnc/tech/multics/MulticsPanels.html

Alas, as can be seen there, the DPS-8's don't have those wonderful panels
with a zillion lights and switches; just boring modern machines! :-)

Noel

Re: Bendix G-15 [was: Re: VCF PNW 2018: Pictures!]

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Al Kossow

>> On 2/18/18 12:20 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:

>> ... his 709 went to the CHM. Anything else of the big stuff?

> the 7094 and 650

A 7094? Neat! Very historic machine.

I wonder if it would be possible to fabricate the extras needed to run CTSS
on it... :-)

Noel

Re: VCF PNW 2018: Pictures!

[geneb via cctalk]

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:

What do they have up there for Honeywell?  Any DPS-8’s?  I know they 
should have at least a box of GCOS-8 manuals (in hindsight, the only 
manuals I regret sending up there).


Zane, they've got a DPS-8 maintenance/operator/? panel sitting right out 
front.  It's fully operational and is connected via some magic hardware to 
a Raspberry Pi running a Multics emulator. The guy that wrote the emulator 
gave a talk that should be the first one you watch once Erik has a chance 
to get the video posted.


g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: Control Data 841 disk drive's 3-phase power supply resurrection

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Feb 18, 2018, at 11:02 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 02/18/2018 04:55 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On 2/18/18 4:07 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
>> 
>>> Generally, the electromechanical stuff (motors) was run from 208V
>>> 3-phase and often, the electronics from 400Hz.
>>> 
>>> At least that's what I recall.
>>> 
>>> --Chuck
>>> 
>> 
>> that isn't what the schematic looks like.
>> there is a low voltage transformer hung off one of the phases
> 
> Perhaps that's only for controllers and CPUs and such.  It's been too
> long...

It varies.  Looking at CDC 6600 CPU cabinet power schematics, you can see 400 
Hz 3 phase powering the DC supplies, and 50/60 Hz three phase for the cooling 
system compressors.  An interesting detail is that the DC supplies seem to be 
unregulated, with choke input filters.  That makes some sense, the load is 
reasonably constant with the logic used in the 6600, and choke input supplies 
have decent regulation.

The DD60 console takes 400 Hz 3 phase for the high voltage supply, and uses 60 
Hz single phase (120 volt) for the other supplies.

paul