[cctalk] Re: Need a 1.2mb 5.25 floppy

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 2/26/23 16:42, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
> Oi.
> 
> So after finally getting things going I started copying the Pro/380 OS
> files to a bunch of 1.2mb floppies. Great. However after a bit I started
> getting errors, and found that the disks were getting gouges in the
> tracks. Sure enough disassembly of my 1.2mb Teac showed that debris had
> become embedded in the disk head and cleaning is not possible.
> 
> Terrific. Tossing the drive, this is not the first time I have had this
> problem with these disks so I am dumpstering all of the old floppies and
> just bought 40 new ones in sealed boxes.
> 
> However I'm now in need of a 1.2mb floppy drive. Anyone have a good
> working spare that I can beg/borrow/buy in the MD area?

I thought the Pro 300 series used RX-50 drives; i.e. 400K 96 tpi DD
media.   So even with your 5.25" HD drive, you should be using DD
("360K") floppies.

You can also use a 3.5" drive running in DD mode.

FWIW,
--Chuck

[cctalk] Need a 1.2mb 5.25 floppy

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

Oi.

So after finally getting things going I started copying the Pro/380 OS 
files to a bunch of 1.2mb floppies. Great. However after a bit I started 
getting errors, and found that the disks were getting gouges in the 
tracks. Sure enough disassembly of my 1.2mb Teac showed that debris had 
become embedded in the disk head and cleaning is not possible.


Terrific. Tossing the drive, this is not the first time I have had this 
problem with these disks so I am dumpstering all of the old floppies and 
just bought 40 new ones in sealed boxes.


However I'm now in need of a 1.2mb floppy drive. Anyone have a good 
working spare that I can beg/borrow/buy in the MD area?


Thanks!
CZ

(I really should have pitched these disks; they came from a basement 
with an oil heater for 20 years and are quite honestly garbage. Only 
thing worse were disks from Solarex which literally had silicon dust on 
them that chewed any drive. Oh well, live and learn)

[cctalk] PDP-8/A FPP8/A

[Bob Smith via cctalk]

Don White designed the FPP8/A.  From my recollection, the unit that
was sold with 8/A was the second iteration of an Omnibus FPP8. I waa
off in LCG working on Jupiter so I never got to see the original but I
recall that the redesign to use the cycle stealing version that went
to market was because the original 8/A version was too "powerful"
meaning that it out performed all of the PDP-11 FPP units and was more
precise. I recall it was capable of 72 bit vice 36 bit max operations.
The marketed design was a cost reduced and really an extraordinary
simple design, elegant would be a better description. I seem to recall
the original was built around either ALU or 4 bit Slice chips like
AMD2901 or some variation of a TRW chip.
bob

[cctalk] Re: Getting QRST files onto a floppy (sigh)

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

USB floopies are not general purpose devices. They have a fixed number of
formats that work, and the rest do not.

Warner

On Sun, Feb 26, 2023 at 2:44 PM Wayne S via cctalk 
wrote:

> Your troubles with USB floppy drives reinforces my own experiences. They
> seem to work okay in windows using a Microsoft written utility but not too
> well in dos or user written programs. It’s hit or miss as to if the program
> will see the usb floppy. However, using a builtin floppy always seems to
> work.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 26, 2023, at 12:17, Chris Zach via cctalk 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Henry!
> >
> >>   You wanted a SETUP disk for a Deskpro/XE system, right?  Like SP1363
> >>   as listed here https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=76542
> >>    ?  I was able to do
> >>   this in Dosbox-X no problem: mount the local directory with
> >>   sp1363.exe as C: or whatever, attach a disk image to A:, and then
> >>   let sp1363.exe create the disk image on A: .  You can then write the
> >>   raw disk image to a 1.44" floppy.
> >
> > Interesting. I was using DOSBOX, not DOSBOX-X. I tried downloading it,
> set the A: drive to be the USB a: drive, and it doesn't work. This time it
> bombs out with QRST transfer incomplete.
> >
> > So I restarted, copied one of the diagnostic floppy images I did have to
> a filename of xe.img, mounted it in dosbox-x with the imgmount a (filename)
> command, then ran QRST and it seems to have worked.
> >
> > So if you try to use a USB floppy it can't see it, but if you use an
> image file it can. I wonder if Dosbox sees the external floppy as a SCSI
> device, but when you do an imgmount it knows to use the real, crappy DMA
> based routines to access the image file.
> >
> > Off to copy the image file to the pi, then to the USB floppy, then maybe
> to get the XE running. Fascinating, and thank yoU!
> >
> > CZ
>

[cctalk] Better way to extract these TD0 images for P/OS.

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

Ok, so after pouting for awhile after destroying my only Teac 1.2mb 5.25 
drive (old floppies are garbage) I sat for awhile and thought about this 
whole issue. The goal is simple: Install P/OS 3.2 on my Pro/380 but 
doing 21 floppies for the base OS, another 20 or so for the Toolkit, and 
God knows how many for the layered applications is, shall we say, for 
the birds.


I feel like a spaceman trying to start a fire on the moon by banging 
rocks together. There needs to be a better way.


So I looked around some more and finally found a program. Someone wrote 
it, called SAMDISK. From the "World of Sam" 
https://www.worldofsam.org/products/samdisk-utility


Downloaded it to Windows10, fired it up (CMD mode only, thank God) and 
typed:


samdisk 177-21.td0 disk0021.dsk

And sure enough a 430,336 byte image popped up in my directory. Moved it 
to a USB, put it in my Gotek/Flashfloppy, fired up my pdp11/73 running 
RSX111M+, and did a mount DU1: /over


It mounted. $ mount du1: /over
$ dir du1:[*,*]


Directory DU1:[ZZSYS]
26-FEB-2023 22:09

POSRES.TSK;142. C  23-JUN-1987 14:51
POS.SYS;1   441.C  23-JUN-1987 14:51
STARTUP.TSK;1   19. C  23-JUN-1987 14:52
SASCOM.TSK;14.  C  23-JUN-1987 14:52
SAS.COM;1   1. 23-JUN-1987 14:52
SIR.TSK;1   74. C  23-JUN-1987 14:52

Total of 581./581. blocks in 6. files


Directory DU1:[1,54]
26-FEB-2023 22:09

SIR.MSG;1   17.23-JUN-1987 14:52
SIR.MNU;1   5. 23-JUN-1987 14:52
SIR.HLP;1   10.23-JUN-1987 14:52
SCRIPT.COM;123.23-JUN-1987 14:52

Total of 55./55. blocks in 4. files

Grand total of 636./636. blocks in 10. files in 2. directories

That is the first disk in the POS series. So we know that this tool can 
work to turn thse stupid TD0 files into images that we can use.


Now to convert the rest of the files, and get a second Gotek. Because I 
am going to need to run two of them to emulate the two RX50's on a 
Pro/380. If I set one as drive 0, the second as drive 1, and use a 
straight 34 pin ribbon cable it might work.


Never dull. But this is a far less painful solution than screwing around 
with 100 floppy disks.


CZ

[cctalk] Re: Serial Disk scipts

[Mike Katz via cctalk]

Apparently the attachments didn't make it through the email server. 
Please email me directly for the two scripts.


Thanks,

 mike
    bit...@12bitsbest.com

On 2/26/2023 2:36 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
Attached are two bash scripts (tested on Raspberry Pi OS) for serial 
disk.


run each script with sudo ./.

If an existing os8diskserver directory is present it will be renamed 
and a new copy installed.


getos8diskserver  -- installs all of the necessary files to build the 
os8diskserver and the os8diskserver source itself.
makeos8diskserver -- builds os8diskserver, installs a local copy of 
simh and builds a serial disk bootable image as well as several other 
rk05
 images and creates a script to start os8serial 
disk with the default RK05 images.



Feel free to fold, spindle and mutilate this.

Please let me know if you find any bugs, have any suggestions or make 
any generic modifications.


I'm hoping to get this into the os8diskserver github as soon as I get 
a chance to create a pull request


Note:   This is also being cross posted to the VCF DEC forum. Please 
post this to any other forums or mailing lists you feel are appropriate.


   Mike

[cctalk] Re: WTB Any storage for a PDP 8/A

[Rick Murphy via cctalk]

On 2/26/2023 9:47 AM, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote:

On 2/26/2023 1:15 AM, jos via cctalk wrote:

On 25.02.23 18:52, silvercreekvalley--- via cctalk wrote:
Thanks Vince - I knew about the RX emulators but not the serial disk 
- that sounds interesting. Is there any documentation on that - I 
had a look at the GitHub but seemed a bit sparse.


I can imagine the FFP8/A is hard to find and replicate. I can 
probably use emulation - but its nice to check with real hardware.


This is probably not the right place to link the youtube video of the 
guy that destroyed a FPP8/A set to recover the gold on the 
PCB-fingers...


I do have a rather complete 8/A, with RL01 ad FPP8/A. Alas no sockets 
inside so the PROMs cannot easily be read out.


Too bad we probably can't get the damaged board to image the PROMS and 
programmable parts.


The source code for the FPP8-A is available - I retyped it while trying 
to debug the SIMH FPP code.


Getting that source into a binary is a exercise for the reader. :) 
Apparently the compiler for this ran on TOPS-10.


The maintenance docs for the FPP8-A give enough information to reverse 
engineer the programmable bits.


    -Rick

[cctalk] Re: Booting from B: (Was: Getting QRST files onto

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

Which versions of DOS let you boot off B: ?


CORRECTION:
Although the default of DOS used to be A: then first HDD (usually C:), it 
is the computer firmware, not DOS that decides that.


The assumption that C: is the HDD can be annoying. I used to use PCs with 
four floppies.  If jumpered properly, the HDD was E:.



Many "modern" PCs, within the "CMOS" setup, have provision for changing 
the boot sequence.  Mostly, in order to default to booting from HDD, 
rather than floppy, but also for CD or USB boot.
I do not know of any that permit selecting floppy B: for boot, but there 
could exist some with that option, . . .


On a PC with a single physical floppy, asking for any command with B: will 
trigger a prompt to put the B: disk in drive A:, and have a phantom B: 
that shares the physical drive with A:


Swapping A: and B: is, of course, trivial to do with hardware, and/or 
messing with the cable.  (pin 10 of the cable [at the FDC] is A: and 12 is 
B:, but the usual supplied cables are twisted and missing pins so that 
every drive, on the drive itself is jumpered as if it were B:).  An 
untwisted cable, with switch[es] would be one way.


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: Tadpole RISC laptop RAM modules

[Cameron Kaiser via cctalk]

>> I don't think it's the connector, but it's junk if it isn't anyway, so I 
>> might
>> see. These things screw in place and the fit was tight getting it out so it
>> would boot again, so I don't think it wiggled. Still, would be nice to know a
>> source for spares because it seems like others on this list have had similar
>> problems with theirs.
> 
> It might be possible to transplant DRAM ICs from other SIMMS onto the Tadpole
> memory modules to refurbish them.

I think that's possible, but it would need someone with better soldering skills
than I've got. I draw the line at surface mount; I've wrecked boards before,
and this module has 18 Hitachi DRAM chips on it (parity).

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- If I am not for myself, who will be for me? -- Pirkei Avot -

[cctalk] Re: Tadpole RISC laptop RAM modules

[Ethan O'Toole via cctalk]

I don't think it's the connector, but it's junk if it isn't anyway, so I might
see. These things screw in place and the fit was tight getting it out so it
would boot again, so I don't think it wiggled. Still, would be nice to know a
source for spares because it seems like others on this list have had similar
problems with theirs.


It might be possible to transplant DRAM ICs from other SIMMS onto the 
Tadpole memory modules to refurbish them.


- Ethan


--
: Ethan O'Toole

[cctalk] Re: Tadpole RISC laptop RAM modules

[Cameron Kaiser via cctalk]

>> Well, this is the second Tadpole laptop RAM module I've had go bad on me (one
>> in my PA-RISC PrecisionBook and now one in my SPARC UltraBook IIi). These are
>> the maroon-red 256MB or 512MB screw-in modules marked "Huxley Only" using a
>> custom friction fit connector, not regular SO-DIMMs. I can't find an obvious
>> part number on them and searching for Tadpole RAM modules just finds the
>> rinkydink 8MB parts for the earlier SPARCbooks.
> 
> Can you tell if it's one of the DRAM ICs or if it's the connector? Deoxit on
> the connector then reseat?

I don't think it's the connector, but it's junk if it isn't anyway, so I might
see. These things screw in place and the fit was tight getting it out so it
would boot again, so I don't think it wiggled. Still, would be nice to know a
source for spares because it seems like others on this list have had similar
problems with theirs.

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Queen, you shall be it if you wish/Look for your king -- Pink Floyd 

[cctalk] Re: Tadpole RISC laptop RAM modules

[Ethan O'Toole via cctalk]

Well, this is the second Tadpole laptop RAM module I've had go bad on me (one
in my PA-RISC PrecisionBook and now one in my SPARC UltraBook IIi). These are
the maroon-red 256MB or 512MB screw-in modules marked "Huxley Only" using a
custom friction fit connector, not regular SO-DIMMs. I can't find an obvious
part number on them and searching for Tadpole RAM modules just finds the
rinkydink 8MB parts for the earlier SPARCbooks.


Can you tell if it's one of the DRAM ICs or if it's the connector? Deoxit 
on the connector then reseat?


- Ethan


--
: Ethan O'Toole

[cctalk] Re: Tadpole RISC laptop RAM modules

[Doc Shipley via cctalk]

On 2/26/23 15:16, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote:

Well, this is the second Tadpole laptop RAM module I've had go bad on me (one
in my PA-RISC PrecisionBook and now one in my SPARC UltraBook IIi). These are
the maroon-red 256MB or 512MB screw-in modules marked "Huxley Only" using a
custom friction fit connector, not regular SO-DIMMs. I can't find an obvious
part number on them and searching for Tadpole RAM modules just finds the
rinkydink 8MB parts for the earlier SPARCbooks.

Anyone know someone who carries them, or better still, is willing to sell some
they have? Looking for a 256MB module but a 512MB module would be even better.


  Izzat a "SPARCBook II"?  If so, I have one with 2 drives, and the 
/usr drive is failing.  I can replace that but I have no idea how to 
reinstall SunOS/Solaris/Whatever.  I don't have a floppy drive or the 
SCSI dongle.


  Help?

  You also have the only other PrecisionBook I've ever heard of.


Doc

[cctalk] Re: Getting QRST files onto a floppy (sigh)

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Your troubles with USB floppy drives reinforces my own experiences. They seem 
to work okay in windows using a Microsoft written utility but not too well in 
dos or user written programs. It’s hit or miss as to if the program will see 
the usb floppy. However, using a builtin floppy always seems to work. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 26, 2023, at 12:17, Chris Zach via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Henry!
> 
>>   You wanted a SETUP disk for a Deskpro/XE system, right?  Like SP1363
>>   as listed here https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=76542
>>    ?  I was able to do
>>   this in Dosbox-X no problem: mount the local directory with
>>   sp1363.exe as C: or whatever, attach a disk image to A:, and then
>>   let sp1363.exe create the disk image on A: .  You can then write the
>>   raw disk image to a 1.44" floppy.
> 
> Interesting. I was using DOSBOX, not DOSBOX-X. I tried downloading it, set 
> the A: drive to be the USB a: drive, and it doesn't work. This time it bombs 
> out with QRST transfer incomplete.
> 
> So I restarted, copied one of the diagnostic floppy images I did have to a 
> filename of xe.img, mounted it in dosbox-x with the imgmount a (filename) 
> command, then ran QRST and it seems to have worked.
> 
> So if you try to use a USB floppy it can't see it, but if you use an image 
> file it can. I wonder if Dosbox sees the external floppy as a SCSI device, 
> but when you do an imgmount it knows to use the real, crappy DMA based 
> routines to access the image file.
> 
> Off to copy the image file to the pi, then to the USB floppy, then maybe to 
> get the XE running. Fascinating, and thank yoU!
> 
> CZ

[cctalk] Tadpole RISC laptop RAM modules

[Cameron Kaiser via cctalk]

Well, this is the second Tadpole laptop RAM module I've had go bad on me (one
in my PA-RISC PrecisionBook and now one in my SPARC UltraBook IIi). These are
the maroon-red 256MB or 512MB screw-in modules marked "Huxley Only" using a
custom friction fit connector, not regular SO-DIMMs. I can't find an obvious
part number on them and searching for Tadpole RAM modules just finds the
rinkydink 8MB parts for the earlier SPARCbooks.

Anyone know someone who carries them, or better still, is willing to sell some
they have? Looking for a 256MB module but a 512MB module would be even better.

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Put your Nose to the Grindstone! -- Plastic Surgeons-Toolmakers Union Ltd. -

[cctalk] Serial Disk scipts

[Mike Katz via cctalk]

Attached are two bash scripts (tested on Raspberry Pi OS) for serial 
disk.


run each script with sudo ./.

If an existing os8diskserver directory is present it will be renamed and 
a new copy installed.


getos8diskserver  -- installs all of the necessary files to build the 
os8diskserver and the os8diskserver source itself.
makeos8diskserver -- builds os8diskserver, installs a local copy of simh 
and builds a serial disk bootable image as well as several other rk05
 images and creates a script to start os8serial disk 
with the default RK05 images.



Feel free to fold, spindle and mutilate this.

Please let me know if you find any bugs, have any suggestions or make 
any generic modifications.


I'm hoping to get this into the os8diskserver github as soon as I get a 
chance to create a pull request


Note:   This is also being cross posted to the VCF DEC forum.  Please 
post this to any other forums or mailing lists you feel are appropriate.


   Mike

[cctalk] Re: Getting QRST files onto a floppy (sigh)

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

Hi Henry!


You wanted a SETUP disk for a Deskpro/XE system, right?  Like SP1363
as listed here https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=76542
 ?  I was able to do
this in Dosbox-X no problem: mount the local directory with
sp1363.exe as C: or whatever, attach a disk image to A:, and then
let sp1363.exe create the disk image on A: .  You can then write the
raw disk image to a 1.44" floppy.


Interesting. I was using DOSBOX, not DOSBOX-X. I tried downloading it, 
set the A: drive to be the USB a: drive, and it doesn't work. This time 
it bombs out with QRST transfer incomplete.


So I restarted, copied one of the diagnostic floppy images I did have to 
a filename of xe.img, mounted it in dosbox-x with the imgmount a 
(filename) command, then ran QRST and it seems to have worked.


So if you try to use a USB floppy it can't see it, but if you use an 
image file it can. I wonder if Dosbox sees the external floppy as a SCSI 
device, but when you do an imgmount it knows to use the real, crappy DMA 
based routines to access the image file.


Off to copy the image file to the pi, then to the USB floppy, then maybe 
to get the XE running. Fascinating, and thank yoU!


CZ

[cctalk] Re: Getting QRST files onto a floppy (sigh)

[Henry Bent via cctalk]

On Sun, 26 Feb 2023 at 14:54, Henry Bent  wrote:

> On Sat, 25 Feb 2023 at 17:12, Chris Zach via cctalk 
> wrote:
>
>> So I'm working on restoring a Compaq DeskPro/XE system to allow me to
>> use the 5.25 floppy to copy files from my 3.5 floppies which will come
>> from my Windows 10 system so that I can extract on the Deskpro/XE using
>> teledisk the .td0 files that make up a RX50 floppy disk set so I can
>> load POS 3.2 on my Pro/380 and see if the DECNA card works.
>>
>> What a pain in the rear.
>>
>> So far the XE boots but has no setup. Setup requires a special floppy
>> (Diagnostic disk) which mine was bad after 30 years so I'm trying to
>> create a new one. I have the official Compaq disk creation thing for a
>> floppy but it's in QRST format and the QRST under DOSBOX on Windows10
>> can't properly access a floppy even if "mounted" with a -t floppy
>> extension.
>>
>> Before I drag out my rusty and trusty Windows 95 Toshiba 660AV laptop,
>> is there another way to get this onto a floppy? I have an endless supply
>> of Rpi's, and doing a DD from a .img file works fine but this of course
>> is a QRST file.
>>
>>
> You wanted a SETUP disk for a Deskpro/XE system, right?  Like SP1363 as
> listed here https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=76542 ?  I was able to
> do this in Dosbox-X no problem: mount the local directory with sp1363.exe
> as C: or whatever, attach a disk image to A:, and then let sp1363.exe
> create the disk image on A: .  You can then write the raw disk image to a
> 1.44" floppy.
>
>
Sorry, forgot the Dosbox-X link: https://dosbox-x.com/

-Henry

[cctalk] Re: Getting QRST files onto a floppy (sigh)

[Henry Bent via cctalk]

On Sat, 25 Feb 2023 at 17:12, Chris Zach via cctalk 
wrote:

> So I'm working on restoring a Compaq DeskPro/XE system to allow me to
> use the 5.25 floppy to copy files from my 3.5 floppies which will come
> from my Windows 10 system so that I can extract on the Deskpro/XE using
> teledisk the .td0 files that make up a RX50 floppy disk set so I can
> load POS 3.2 on my Pro/380 and see if the DECNA card works.
>
> What a pain in the rear.
>
> So far the XE boots but has no setup. Setup requires a special floppy
> (Diagnostic disk) which mine was bad after 30 years so I'm trying to
> create a new one. I have the official Compaq disk creation thing for a
> floppy but it's in QRST format and the QRST under DOSBOX on Windows10
> can't properly access a floppy even if "mounted" with a -t floppy
> extension.
>
> Before I drag out my rusty and trusty Windows 95 Toshiba 660AV laptop,
> is there another way to get this onto a floppy? I have an endless supply
> of Rpi's, and doing a DD from a .img file works fine but this of course
> is a QRST file.
>
>
You wanted a SETUP disk for a Deskpro/XE system, right?  Like SP1363 as
listed here https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=76542 ?  I was able to
do this in Dosbox-X no problem: mount the local directory with sp1363.exe
as C: or whatever, attach a disk image to A:, and then let sp1363.exe
create the disk image on A: .  You can then write the raw disk image to a
1.44" floppy.

-Henry

[cctalk] Re: Getting QRST files onto a floppy (sigh)

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Sun, 26 Feb 2023, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:

Install DOS and Format.exe on a 3.5 floppy Fire it up and when running 
QRST try selecting the "B" drive. That used to (on a single disk system) 
prompt you to switch floppies back and forth which *might* work, 
allowing me to write the image on a second floppy.
. . . 

Or...
Find a 1.2mb 5.25 floppy in my pile of stuff.
Load DOS on the 3.5.
Put the 5.25 in as drive B:
Format the 5.25 with format b: /s /v to put the system on it.
Boot off B:
Copy the stupid image from A: to B:
Run QRST
Switch A floppy with a new disk and try extracting to it.


Which versions of DOS let you boot off B: ?

[cctalk] Re: Getting QRST files onto a floppy (sigh)

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

QRST does run without issues on DOSBOX, the problem is it can't see the 
concept of the "A" drive which seems to be a mapped share as opposed to 
a "physical dopey DMA device".


The floppy controller on PC's was always weird as hell, I do remember that.

CZ

On 2/25/2023 7:29 PM, Wayne S wrote:
Since, allowing for snail mail, it will probably be a week, i have a 
question. Can you run the qrst.exe program at all? Was thinking that it 
might be possible to extract the image to hard disk then use an image 
burning prog to write to the floppy eith needing 16 bit drivers.


Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 25, 2023, at 16:24, Wayne S  wrote:

 Btw… here’s the link to the Qrst info… 
http://fileformats.archiveteam.org/wiki/Quick_Release_Sector_Transfer 




Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 25, 2023, at 16:23, Wayne S  wrote:

Yep. I can probably burn a floppy for you if you put the programs 
and data software somewhere i can get to it. I’ll try and then you 
can tell me where to send the floppies.


Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 25, 2023, at 16:17, Chris Zach via cctalk 
 wrote:





I read that Qrst was just a file format. To quote The QRST disc 
image format was used by Compaq to distribute disk images of 
diagnostic software. The file QRST.EXE or QRST5.EXE would be 
supplied with the disc images to write them to a floppy drive.

-So do you have the QRST programs available?


Yes. However the QRST program is a 16 bit app that requires physical 
access to a real floppy controller. Thus it cannot work on a Windows 
10 system with DOSBOX as the floppy is USB and I don't think DOSBOX 
emulates a true floppy interface at the BIOS level.


Modern archive tools like 7zip do not appear to have support for 
QRST format. It's compressed in some odd way, so it can't just be 
dd'ed to a floppy sector by sector.


Never dull.
CZ

[cctalk] Re: Getting QRST files onto a floppy (sigh)

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

Thank you! I'd appreciate it if it comes to that, but I'll give myself a 
week to find a solution here. All I need is a .img file or something I 
can burn to floppy with dd.


And I have to replace that battery on the motherboard. Looks to be 
welded in, we'll see


CZ

On 2/25/2023 7:23 PM, Wayne S wrote:

Yep. I can probably burn a floppy for you if you put the programs and data 
software somewhere i can get to it. I’ll try and then you can tell me where to 
send the floppies.

Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 25, 2023, at 16:17, Chris Zach via cctalk  wrote:




I read that Qrst was just a file format. To quote The QRST disc image format 
was used by Compaq to distribute disk images of diagnostic software. The file 
QRST.EXE or QRST5.EXE would be supplied with the disc images to write them to a 
floppy drive.
-So do you have the QRST programs available?


Yes. However the QRST program is a 16 bit app that requires physical access to 
a real floppy controller. Thus it cannot work on a Windows 10 system with 
DOSBOX as the floppy is USB and I don't think DOSBOX emulates a true floppy 
interface at the BIOS level.

Modern archive tools like 7zip do not appear to have support for QRST format. 
It's compressed in some odd way, so it can't just be dd'ed to a floppy sector 
by sector.

Never dull.
CZ

[cctalk] Re: Getting QRST files onto a floppy (sigh)

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

Linux would be fine, however there doesn't seem to be a DOS emulator 
that emulates the ISA bus A: drive. I suppose Linux on a PC with that 
hardware might work, however the hardware in question is stuck at the 
"need to configure" which does require a DOS disk which can only be 
extracted by QRST on a DOS system


One thought might be:
Install DOS and Format.exe on a 3.5 floppy
Fire it up and when running QRST try selecting the "B" drive.
That used to (on a single disk system) prompt you to switch floppies 
back and forth which *might* work, allowing me to write the image on a 
second floppy.


Or...
Find a 1.2mb 5.25 floppy in my pile of stuff.
Load DOS on the 3.5.
Put the 5.25 in as drive B:
Format the 5.25 with format b: /s /v to put the system on it.
Boot off B:
Copy the stupid image from A: to B:
Run QRST
Switch A floppy with a new disk and try extracting to it.

We'll see. This is a fun little adventure. Wish I could figure out where 
the heck my Toshiba power supply brick is...


C

On 2/26/2023 11:15 AM, Paul Koning wrote:




On Feb 25, 2023, at 5:11 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk  
wrote:

So I'm working on restoring a Compaq DeskPro/XE system to allow me to use the 
5.25 floppy to copy files from my 3.5 floppies which will come from my Windows 
10 system so that I can extract on the Deskpro/XE using teledisk the .td0 files 
that make up a RX50 floppy disk set so I can load POS 3.2 on my Pro/380 and see 
if the DECNA card works.

What a pain in the rear.

So far the XE boots but has no setup. Setup requires a special floppy (Diagnostic disk) 
which mine was bad after 30 years so I'm trying to create a new one. I have the official 
Compaq disk creation thing for a floppy but it's in QRST format and the QRST under DOSBOX 
on Windows10 can't properly access a floppy even if "mounted" with a -t floppy 
extension.


I run Linux on my old PCs -- the one that has a 5.25 inch floppy is an early 
Pentium (Gateway).  Linux works just fine, no installation hassles.

paul

[cctalk] Re: Getting QRST files onto a floppy (sigh)

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

Win 10 comes with cmd so do you need to use dosbox?


Windows 10 does not have a 16 bit subsystem anymore. Doesn't work.

As for creating a DOS bootable disk, I think the problem is that the low 
level disk access QRST wants is not availible on a USB floppy drive. So 
you need a "real" floppy and controller to make it work.


Anyone want to do me a favor, run it, and email me an .img version of 
the resulting floppy?


I'd use my Toshiba 660av, but I just checked and the power adapter is 
missing. Yep.


CZ

[cctalk] Re: Getting QRST files onto a floppy (sigh)

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Feb 25, 2023, at 5:11 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> So I'm working on restoring a Compaq DeskPro/XE system to allow me to use the 
> 5.25 floppy to copy files from my 3.5 floppies which will come from my 
> Windows 10 system so that I can extract on the Deskpro/XE using teledisk the 
> .td0 files that make up a RX50 floppy disk set so I can load POS 3.2 on my 
> Pro/380 and see if the DECNA card works.
> 
> What a pain in the rear.
> 
> So far the XE boots but has no setup. Setup requires a special floppy 
> (Diagnostic disk) which mine was bad after 30 years so I'm trying to create a 
> new one. I have the official Compaq disk creation thing for a floppy but it's 
> in QRST format and the QRST under DOSBOX on Windows10 can't properly access a 
> floppy even if "mounted" with a -t floppy extension.

I run Linux on my old PCs -- the one that has a 5.25 inch floppy is an early 
Pentium (Gateway).  Linux works just fine, no installation hassles.

paul

[cctalk] Re: WTB Any storage for a PDP 8/A

[Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk]

On 2/26/2023 1:15 AM, jos via cctalk wrote:

On 25.02.23 18:52, silvercreekvalley--- via cctalk wrote:
Thanks Vince - I knew about the RX emulators but not the serial disk - 
that sounds interesting. Is there any documentation on that - I had a 
look at the GitHub but seemed a bit sparse.


I can imagine the FFP8/A is hard to find and replicate. I can probably 
use emulation - but its nice to check with real hardware.


This is probably not the right place to link the youtube video of the 
guy that destroyed a FPP8/A set to recover the gold on the PCB-fingers...


I do have a rather complete 8/A, with RL01 ad FPP8/A. Alas no sockets 
inside so the PROMs cannot easily be read out.


Too bad we probably can't get the damaged board to image the PROMS and 
programmable parts.


ISTR seeing some of that information in the drawings.

I tried to reverse engineer the 128K memory controller, but ran into 
issues where I could not be certain what should be in the ROMs and other 
programmable parts. (It is not just a bigger memory; there's remapping 
for DMA, remapping for user mode, and all kinds of other stuff in there.)


Vince

[cctalk] Re: WTB Any storage for a PDP 8/A

[jos via cctalk]

On 25.02.23 18:52, silvercreekvalley--- via cctalk wrote:

Thanks Vince - I knew about the RX emulators but not the serial disk - that 
sounds interesting. Is there any documentation on that - I had a look at the 
GitHub but seemed a bit sparse.

I can imagine the FFP8/A is hard to find and replicate. I can probably use 
emulation - but its nice to check with real hardware.


This is probably not the right place to link the youtube video of the guy that 
destroyed a FPP8/A set to recover the gold on the PCB-fingers...

I do have a rather complete 8/A, with RL01 ad FPP8/A. Alas no sockets inside so 
the PROMs cannot easily be read out.


Jos

[cctalk] Re: WTB Any storage for a PDP 8/A

[Tom Hunter via cctalk]

Thank you very much Vince.


On Sun, 26 Feb 2023, 3:48 pm Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk, <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 2/25/2023 10:46 PM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote:
> > Hi Vince,
> >
> > Could you please point us to the Makefile which "actually converts a disk
> > image" using SIMH to "automate the ritual of unistalling RK05 drivers and
> > replacing them with SerialDisk drivers"?
>
> Ah, I seem to have misspoken.  Inspecting the Makefile in .../installer,
> it still runs the executable "handler_installer", which is the older
> tool that more or less just hammers a new system handler and bootstrap
> into place.
>
> The script for the new installer is "sdsk".  This sets up a path for the
> tools, copies the newest driver binaries into the exploded disk image
> (while padding them to an even block length), then imploding the
> exploded directory and making a new bootable RK05 image.
>
> Then "runbuild" is invokes, which in turn invokes SIMH and sends a
> series of commands to BUILD.SV to remove various other drivers and
> install the "SDSKSY" and "SDSKNS" drivers copied above.  Finally, the
> "BOOT" command is given to write the new second stage (and third stage)
> bootstrap.  The self-modified BOOT.SV is also saved as BUILT.SV.
>
> Sorry for the confusion.
>
> If you don't want to use diagpack2, SDSK.md is helpful, but basically
> you need to edit the line:
> image=diagpack2
> in the sdsk script, and to have previously copied in your starting
> image, and run ../tools/os8xplode on it.  SDSK.md also contains
> information about the need for "perl", "socat", and "expect" and to get
> them (on Linux, anyway).
>
> Oh, and the SIMH initialization file (pdp8.ini) is also firing up the
> server program, so you need to tweak that to make your "foo.new"
> available to the SIMH serial emulation.  That script used to also
> require a functioning xterm, but it doesn't any more.  If you have xterm
> and want to see the server log in real time, there are lines there to
> invoke ../server/server the other way, and you can un-comment that and
> comment out the bash line.
>
> Once you've done all the above, it suffices to just type "pdp8" in that
> directory and your new system should boot in SIMH.
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Vince
>
> > On Sun, Feb 26, 2023 at 2:34 AM Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> >> ...
> >>
> >> The one I use most uses the SIMH simulator to automate the ritual of
> >> uninstalling RK05 drivers and replacing them with SerialDisk driver.
> >> The Makefile there will actually convert a disk image, and you could
> >> just swipe the default one once it's been made.
> >>
> >>
>
>