Re: PAL video in the states

[Christian Corti]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2017, Chris Osborn wrote:

I do it by using a GBS8200 to convert the RGB output to VGA. I also use


"VGA" is RGB, too ;-)
I guess you mean converting CCIR timing to "VGA" timing. This is not a 
matter of simple conversion; you need to recreate the picture (like 
sample it and output each scan line twice with the double frequency and 
add new sync signals).


Christian

Re: PAL video in the states

[Chris Osborn]

On Jan 13, 2017, at 2:47 AM, Corey Cohen  wrote:

> Is there a way to use a BBC Micro PAL version with a modern US LCD TV?  

I do it by using a GBS8200 to convert the RGB output to VGA. I also use the 
original power supply by changing some jumpers inside to make it work with US 
120V power. 

http://www.insentricity.com/a.cl/211/to-the-bbc

--
Follow me on twitter: @FozzTexx
Check out my blog: http://insentricity.com

Re: PAL video in the states

[Peter Corlett]

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 11:18:25AM -0500, Paul Koning wrote:
[...]
> Just yesterday I was looking at roughly the opposite question: how to make a
> DVD (in the USA) that my sister in Holland would be able to use. [...]

The Dutch are impressively frugal so it's possible she has managed to find a
rare counterexample, but European TVs and DVD players play NTSC stuff just
fine.

Re: PAL video in the states

[Adrian Graham]

On 13/01/2017 20:51, "Tony Duell"  wrote:

>> Just looked at the pics of someone servicing one, I'll go looking for the
>> manual :)
> 
> It's actually not too bad to work on. The 2 main PCBs (deflection one side,
> video processing on the other) are on fold-out frames. And in fact the whole
> thing comes apart in a few minutes.

So I see, it reminded me a bit of the Acorn Cambridge Workstation in that
respect.
 
> If you can't find the service manual, I have the one I downloaded...

Hopefully I won't need it for a long while but you never know!

>> The monitor is a Hitachi chassis I think, dark-ish picture of my machine is
>> here: http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/einstein.jpg
> 
> That would surprise me, given that Tatung made TV sets (which were often
> badged 'Decca' in the UK). Tandy sold a set based on the Tatung 160 chassis
> as well.

Yes, you're probably right. I was all over the unofficial
tatungeinstein.co.uk last year when I was readying my machine for exhibition
since I could only find one games disk for it. Naturally I found them all a
few weeks ago. Said website is run by the nephew of a Tatung worker in
Telford and I'm sure he said who made the monitor but I can't find it now.
 
> Given that, I would have thought they would have used their own chassis
> in this monitor.
> 
>> 
>> And why oh why did I look on ebay for Einstein stuffgrr :)
> 
> Why? What happened?

I was reminded that the Einstein 256 existed and there's still a couple of
places selling unused ones - unused because there wasn't a market for them
AND the monitor powered the machine a la Amstrad. Not that I've got a spare
£250 of course, but...

-- 
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?

Re: PAL video in the states

[Tony Duell]

>> [Sony PVM9044QM]
>>
>>> I bought one of those recently ostensibly as a monitor for my Apple ][s but
>>> like you say it's capable of pretty much anything you can throw at it.
>>> ukp25 too, bargain.
>>
>> You can get the service manual from elektrotanya, and believe me you
>> need it!
>
> Just looked at the pics of someone servicing one, I'll go looking for the
> manual :)

It's actually not too bad to work on. The 2 main PCBs (deflection one side,
video processing on the other) are on fold-out frames. And in fact the whole
thing comes apart in a few minutes.

If you can't find the service manual, I have the one I downloaded...


{Tatung Einstein]

>> I've never seen the official Tatung monitor for it. I assume it's based on
>> a common TV chassis design. (The Einstein PSU is very similar to some
>> 1980s Decca/Tatung TV power supply circuits).
>
> The monitor is a Hitachi chassis I think, dark-ish picture of my machine is
> here: http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/einstein.jpg

That would surprise me, given that Tatung made TV sets (which were often
badged 'Decca' in the UK). Tandy sold a set based on the Tatung 160 chassis
as well.

Given that, I would have thought they would have used their own chassis
in this monitor.

>
> And why oh why did I look on ebay for Einstein stuffgrr :)

Why? What happened?

-tony

Re: PAL video in the states

[Adrian Graham]

On 13/01/2017 18:02, "Tony Duell"  wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Adrian Graham
>  wrote:
>> On 13 January 2017 at 15:49, Tony Duell  wrote:
> 
> 
> [Sony PVM9044QM]
> 
>> I bought one of those recently ostensibly as a monitor for my Apple ][s but
>> like you say it's capable of pretty much anything you can throw at it.
>> ukp25 too, bargain.
> 
> You can get the service manual from elektrotanya, and believe me you
> need it!

Just looked at the pics of someone servicing one, I'll go looking for the
manual :)

>> I didn't think of putting my Einstein through my big TV, instead I spent
>> quite a bit on the official Tatung monitor for an exhibition I was doing.
> 
> The Einstein can output either RGB (analogue) + sync or 'Component
> video' (luminance and 2 colour difference signals). There are links on the
> PCB to select which.

When it was released it was 'unique' for a home computer in that its video
output was YUV, I remember that being mentioned specifically.
 
> I've never seen the official Tatung monitor for it. I assume it's based on
> a common TV chassis design. (The Einstein PSU is very similar to some
> 1980s Decca/Tatung TV power supply circuits).

The monitor is a Hitachi chassis I think, dark-ish picture of my machine is
here: http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/einstein.jpg

And why oh why did I look on ebay for Einstein stuffgrr :)

-- 
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?

Re: PAL video in the states

[Geoffrey Oltmans]

I use a TV tuner/video capture card (Hauppauge WinTV-D) and DScaler to
display output from my PAL Commodore 128D either composite or Y/C. It works
quite well actually. I did try a cheapy PAL/NTSC converter from eBay but
any horizontal movement is terrible since it doesn't do any
framebuffering/pulldown necessary to handle the difference in refresh
rates. Dscaler displays just about perfect (although the Hauppauge card
introduces a bit of noise in the video).

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:02 PM, Tony Duell  wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Adrian Graham
>  wrote:
> > On 13 January 2017 at 15:49, Tony Duell  wrote:
>
>
> [Sony PVM9044QM]
>
> > I bought one of those recently ostensibly as a monitor for my Apple ][s
> but
> > like you say it's capable of pretty much anything you can throw at it.
> > ukp25 too, bargain.
>
> You can get the service manual from elektrotanya, and believe me you
> need it!
>
> >
> > I didn't think of putting my Einstein through my big TV, instead I spent
> > quite a bit on the official Tatung monitor for an exhibition I was doing.
>
> The Einstein can output either RGB (analogue) + sync or 'Component
> video' (luminance and 2 colour difference signals). There are links on the
> PCB to select which.
>
> I've never seen the official Tatung monitor for it. I assume it's based on
> a common TV chassis design. (The Einstein PSU is very similar to some
> 1980s Decca/Tatung TV power supply circuits).
>
> -tony
>

Re: PAL video in the states

[Phil Blundell]

On Fri, 2017-01-13 at 11:18 -0500, Paul Koning wrote:
> > 
> Just yesterday I was looking at roughly the opposite question: how to
> make a DVD (in the USA) that my sister in Holland would be able to
> use.  The impression I got is that PAL DVD players will usually
> accept NTSC DVDs, and modern PAL TVs will accept a *digital* data
> stream of NTSC video from such a player.  But that doesn't
> necessarily mean they will accept NTSC analog (for VCR output for
> example).  Your report fits that story.

There are two different aspects to the video standard and they are
slightly orthogonal.

PAL, strictly, is a way of encoding chroma in a composite video signal
and an associated set of analogue TV broadcast standards.  NTSC is the
name of the equivalent US TV standard which has a different way of
doing chroma.  (And there's also SECAM which is different again...)

Most PAL-based systems use 576 lines and 50 fields per second, whereas
most NTSC-based systems use 480 lines and 60 fields per second, and so
PAL and NTSC have become more or less synonymous with 576i and 480i
video timing respectively.  However, the opposite combinations do
exist, for example PAL-M uses 480i timings but (as the name suggests)
uses PAL encoding for colour.

But, most of these details of colour encoding are only relevant in the
analogue domain.  Digital video, and even analogue component video,
doesn't have a chroma subcarrier at all so, technically, it is
meaningless to refer to "digital PAL".  In the digital domain, either
compressed files on a DVD or pixels carried over an HDMI link, the only
thing that matters is the resolution and framerate.  The aggregate data
rate in terms of pixels per second is about the same for both formats
and any modern device will almost certainly be able to cope with both.

So, yes, most TVs will be quite happy to accept either 480i or 576i
over HDMI and display it, and I assume this is what you mean by "a
digital stream of NTSC video".  This applies even if they don't have
the capability of decoding NTSC colour, though actually I suspect quite
a lot of the TVs currently on sale are based on multistandard chipsets
and can quite likely do both.  

Most "PAL" DVD players are also quite happy (region coding aside) to
decode and and output 480i video from a US-market disc.  Though it's
worth noting that if you do that, the signal that comes out of the
analogue port is still PAL and not NTSC even though the video timings
will be the 480i ones.

p.

Re: PAL video in the states

[Chuck Guzis]

On 01/13/2017 07:49 AM, Tony Duell wrote:

Back in the day, a friend from the UK sent me a collection of VHS tapes
and a PAL video player.  I ordered a PAL-to-RGB demodulator kit from a
small supplier and took the (analog) RGB output to my Mitsubishi
Diamondscan CRT monitor.  Worked just fine.

--Chuck

Re: PAL video in the states

[Paul Koning]

> On Jan 13, 2017, at 1:05 PM, Tony Duell  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:18 PM, Paul Koning  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Just yesterday I was looking at roughly the opposite question: how to make a 
>> DVD (in the USA)
>> that my sister in Holland would be able to use.  The impression I got is 
>> that PAL DVD players wil
>> l usually accept NTSC DVDs, and modern PAL TVs will accept a *digital* data 
>> stream of NTSC
>> video from such a player.  But that doesn't necessarily mean they will 
>> accept NTSC analog (for
>> VCR output for example).  Your report fits that story.
> 
> No, this TV will accept analogue NTSC video (such as from a VCR, or I
> assume an Apple ][, not
> that I have tried it).
> 
> But what one earth is a 'digital data stream of NTSC video'?

The stuff that comes out of the HDMI port of a DVD player, when playing an NTSC 
disk?  But note that I'm quoting, or paraphrasing, what I read when digging 
into the topic.  I'm still trying to make sense out of things.

The whole TV and DVD stuff is clearly obfuscated in amazing ways, probably in 
part intentionally.

paul

Re: PAL video in the states

[Tony Duell]

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:18 PM, Paul Koning  wrote:
>
>
> Just yesterday I was looking at roughly the opposite question: how to make a 
> DVD (in the USA)
> that my sister in Holland would be able to use.  The impression I got is that 
> PAL DVD players wil
> l usually accept NTSC DVDs, and modern PAL TVs will accept a *digital* data 
> stream of NTSC
> video from such a player.  But that doesn't necessarily mean they will accept 
> NTSC analog (for
> VCR output for example).  Your report fits that story.

No, this TV will accept analogue NTSC video (such as from a VCR, or I
assume an Apple ][, not
that I have tried it).

But what one earth is a 'digital data stream of NTSC video'?

-tony

Re: PAL video in the states

[Jon Elson]

On 01/13/2017 07:38 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:

 > From: William Degnan

 > some are made to handle both pal and ntsc automatically. ... not sure
 > if they still do all that for LCD tv's but why not?

Well, one thing most LCD's don't handle is interlaced video, so that could be
an issue.

Noel

LCD computer monitors may not handle interlaced video.  I'm 
sure some of them do.


But, I suspect all LCDs that can be used as TV monitors will 
handle interlaced just fine.  So, if it has a composite 
video input, it will have interlace.


Jon

Re: PAL video in the states

[Jon Elson]

On 01/13/2017 04:47 AM, Corey Cohen wrote:

So I have a friend who is originally from the U.K.   He has his old BBC micro 
from when he was a kid and wants to be able to use it here in the states.  His 
parents threw out his old TV in the U.K.

Is there a way to use a BBC Micro PAL version with a modern US LCD TV?  Do some 
brands of modern TVs support both NTSC and PAL? Let's assume he may need to 
grab video before the modulator.

Most RS-170 video monitors (plain composite video input) 
should be capable of syncing to monochrome video at PAL 
rates.  The color scheme is pretty different, so color won't 
work, but I'm guessing that is not what the BBC provided.


MUCH more trouble to use an LCD TV, unless it has a 
composite input for some compatibility with old stuff.  SOME 
LCD monitors may have this.  If they do, rather likely they 
know how to sync to it.  Some of those multi-purpose 
monitors that have 20 connectors on the back might be a good 
one to try, they try to support all formats and electrical 
interfaces.


Jon

Re: PAL video in the states

[Paul Koning]

> On Jan 13, 2017, at 11:24 AM, Charles Anthony  
> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Paul Koning  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Just yesterday I was looking at roughly the opposite question: how to make
>> a DVD (in the USA) that my sister in Holland would be able to use.  The
>> impression I got is that PAL DVD players will usually accept NTSC DVDs, and
>> modern PAL TVs will accept a *digital* data stream of NTSC video from such
>> a player.  But that doesn't necessarily mean they will accept NTSC analog
>> (for VCR output for example).  Your report fits that story.
>> 
>> 
> As loathe as I am to recommend Windows software, I seem to recall that Nero
> will do a reasonable ("acceptably lossy") job of converting DVDs between
> PAL/NTSC.

Thanks.  On the Mac, iDVD will do this (more precisely, make a DVD in either 
format from digital source material, which is what I have).  

paul

Re: PAL video in the states

[Charles Anthony]

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Paul Koning  wrote:

>
> Just yesterday I was looking at roughly the opposite question: how to make
> a DVD (in the USA) that my sister in Holland would be able to use.  The
> impression I got is that PAL DVD players will usually accept NTSC DVDs, and
> modern PAL TVs will accept a *digital* data stream of NTSC video from such
> a player.  But that doesn't necessarily mean they will accept NTSC analog
> (for VCR output for example).  Your report fits that story.
>
>
As loathe as I am to recommend Windows software, I seem to recall that Nero
will do a reasonable ("acceptably lossy") job of converting DVDs between
PAL/NTSC.

-- Charles

Re: PAL video in the states

[Adrian Graham]

On 13 January 2017 at 15:49, Tony Duell  wrote:

> On my workbench I have a little (9") Sony Trinitron monitor. It's the sort
> of
> thing that was used for moniitoring signals in a TV studio. It's a model
> PVM9044QM. It can handle just about any TV rate video (US or UK
> rates), PAL, NTSC, Secam, analogue RGB (seperate sync or sync on
> green), component video, S video, etc. OK, 9" is probably too small for
> normal use, but it is ideal on the bench as it will display the output of
> just
> about any home computer. Be warned it's complex inside, 2 large PCBs full
> of chips and several smaller ones.
>

I bought one of those recently ostensibly as a monitor for my Apple ][s but
like you say it's capable of pretty much anything you can throw at it.
ukp25 too, bargain.

I didn't think of putting my Einstein through my big TV, instead I spent
quite a bit on the official Tatung monitor for an exhibition I was doing.

-- 
adrian/witchy
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection?
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Re: PAL video in the states

[Paul Koning]

> On Jan 13, 2017, at 10:49 AM, Tony Duell  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 2:37 PM, Kurt K  wrote:
>> I have a number of systems that require PAL and I was looking on Ebay for 
>> dual
>> NTSC / PAL monitors, and if necessary I can handle the power conversion 
>> requirements.
>> Any recommendations for a monitor that can work with Amstrad/Sinclair, 
>> BBC's, the
>> Archimedes, and the like.  I figure more than one may be necessary.
> 
> My LCD television (Sony KDL-22E5300) claims to be able to display PAL, PAL60 
> (I
> assume PAL with 60Hz vertical), SECAM (doesn't say which one), NTSC (with 
> either
> a 3.58MHz or 4.43MHz subcarrier). It also has a VGA input, analogue
> (TV rate) RGB
> and 'component video' (the last if you happen to have a Tatung
> Einstein computer, I
> guess :-)). I am sure other TVs of a similar date (about 6-7 years
> old) have similar
> facilities, maybe more modern ones do as well.

Just yesterday I was looking at roughly the opposite question: how to make a 
DVD (in the USA) that my sister in Holland would be able to use.  The 
impression I got is that PAL DVD players will usually accept NTSC DVDs, and 
modern PAL TVs will accept a *digital* data stream of NTSC video from such a 
player.  But that doesn't necessarily mean they will accept NTSC analog (for 
VCR output for example).  Your report fits that story.

On the other hand, I also read that US TVs generally don't understand PAL, and 
US DVD players don't either.  My BlueRay player says that explicitly in its 
manual.  It did accept the "PAL" DVD I just burned, which might mean that I 
didn't do it right and what I got was actually an NTSC disk...

One possible approach for US people to deal with PAL analog video is to feed it 
into a video capture device.  For example, the one sold by ElGato is documented 
as accepting NTSC, PAL, and PAL60.  It captures, of course (to H.264 movie 
files) but it will also simply display what it's getting on the computer's 
screen.

paul

Re: PAL video in the states

[Tony Duell]

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 2:37 PM, Kurt K  wrote:
> I have a number of systems that require PAL and I was looking on Ebay for dual
> NTSC / PAL monitors, and if necessary I can handle the power conversion 
> requirements.
> Any recommendations for a monitor that can work with Amstrad/Sinclair, BBC's, 
> the
> Archimedes, and the like.  I figure more than one may be necessary.

My LCD television (Sony KDL-22E5300) claims to be able to display PAL, PAL60 (I
assume PAL with 60Hz vertical), SECAM (doesn't say which one), NTSC (with either
a 3.58MHz or 4.43MHz subcarrier). It also has a VGA input, analogue
(TV rate) RGB
and 'component video' (the last if you happen to have a Tatung
Einstein computer, I
guess :-)). I am sure other TVs of a similar date (about 6-7 years
old) have similar
facilities, maybe more modern ones do as well.

On my workbench I have a little (9") Sony Trinitron monitor. It's the sort of
thing that was used for moniitoring signals in a TV studio. It's a model
PVM9044QM. It can handle just about any TV rate video (US or UK
rates), PAL, NTSC, Secam, analogue RGB (seperate sync or sync on
green), component video, S video, etc. OK, 9" is probably too small for
normal use, but it is ideal on the bench as it will display the output of just
about any home computer. Be warned it's complex inside, 2 large PCBs full
of chips and several smaller ones.

As for power, the TV runs off normal UK 240V mains. The workbench monitor
runs off ACmains from 100V to 240V or off a 12V DC supply.

-tony

Re: PAL video in the states

[Kurt K]

I have a number of systems that require PAL and I was looking on Ebay for dual 
NTSC / PAL monitors, and if necessary I can handle the power conversion 
requirements.  Any recommendations for a monitor that can work with 
Amstrad/Sinclair, BBC's, the Archimedes, and the like.  I figure more than one 
may be necessary.  

> On Jan 13, 2017, at 8:07 AM, william degnan  wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Phil Blundell  wrote:
>> 
>> On Fri, 2017-01-13 at 08:38 -0500, Noel Chiappa wrote:
 From: William Degnan
>>> 
 some are made to handle both pal and ntsc automatically. ...
>>> not sure
 if they still do all that for LCD tv's but why not?
>>> 
>>> Well, one thing most LCD's don't handle is interlaced video, so that
>>> could be an issue.
>> 
>> Anything sold as a TV (as opposed to a computer monitor) will include a
>> deinterlacer; a TV that could only handle progressive scan input would
>> be unacceptable to most consumers.  Standard definition broadcasts were
>> always interlaced and so are most/all DVDs, though as far as I know
>> Blu-ray is progressive scan only.  Even high definition broadcasts are
>> still routinely interlaced in many cases.  ATSC for example can be
>> either 1080i or 720p, and I think the majority of DVB broadcasts are
>> 1080i.
>> 
>> In fact, even computer monitors often tend to include some sort of
>> deinterlacing capability, though I suspect this is more because it
>> comes for free with the chipsets than because the market actually
>> requires it.  But monitors tend to have a minimum horizontal sync rate
>> of 20kHz or so and often won't lock to a 480i/576i input, so they'd be
>> no use for the current purpose anyway.
>> 
>> p.
> So I guess what you're saying is, get a last-gen CRT TV that claims PAL and
> NTSC automatic capability.  I don't have mine anymore, but it was my bench
> monitor, I have PAL Commodores I used to use it on.  Wish I remembered the
> manufacturer.
> b

Re: PAL video in the states

[william degnan]

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Phil Blundell  wrote:

> On Fri, 2017-01-13 at 08:38 -0500, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> > > From: William Degnan
> >
> > > some are made to handle both pal and ntsc automatically. ...
> > not sure
> > > if they still do all that for LCD tv's but why not?
> >
> > Well, one thing most LCD's don't handle is interlaced video, so that
> > could be an issue.
>
> Anything sold as a TV (as opposed to a computer monitor) will include a
> deinterlacer; a TV that could only handle progressive scan input would
> be unacceptable to most consumers.  Standard definition broadcasts were
> always interlaced and so are most/all DVDs, though as far as I know
> Blu-ray is progressive scan only.  Even high definition broadcasts are
> still routinely interlaced in many cases.  ATSC for example can be
> either 1080i or 720p, and I think the majority of DVB broadcasts are
> 1080i.
>
> In fact, even computer monitors often tend to include some sort of
> deinterlacing capability, though I suspect this is more because it
> comes for free with the chipsets than because the market actually
> requires it.  But monitors tend to have a minimum horizontal sync rate
> of 20kHz or so and often won't lock to a 480i/576i input, so they'd be
> no use for the current purpose anyway.
>
> p.
>
>
So I guess what you're saying is, get a last-gen CRT TV that claims PAL and
NTSC automatic capability.  I don't have mine anymore, but it was my bench
monitor, I have PAL Commodores I used to use it on.  Wish I remembered the
manufacturer.
b

Re: PAL video in the states

[Phil Blundell]

On Fri, 2017-01-13 at 08:38 -0500, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> > From: William Degnan
> 
> > some are made to handle both pal and ntsc automatically. ...
> not sure
> > if they still do all that for LCD tv's but why not?
> 
> Well, one thing most LCD's don't handle is interlaced video, so that
> could be an issue.

Anything sold as a TV (as opposed to a computer monitor) will include a
deinterlacer; a TV that could only handle progressive scan input would
be unacceptable to most consumers.  Standard definition broadcasts were
always interlaced and so are most/all DVDs, though as far as I know
Blu-ray is progressive scan only.  Even high definition broadcasts are
still routinely interlaced in many cases.  ATSC for example can be
either 1080i or 720p, and I think the majority of DVB broadcasts are
1080i.

In fact, even computer monitors often tend to include some sort of
deinterlacing capability, though I suspect this is more because it
comes for free with the chipsets than because the market actually
requires it.  But monitors tend to have a minimum horizontal sync rate
of 20kHz or so and often won't lock to a 480i/576i input, so they'd be
no use for the current purpose anyway.

p.

Re: PAL video in the states

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: William Degnan

> some are made to handle both pal and ntsc automatically. ... not sure
> if they still do all that for LCD tv's but why not?

Well, one thing most LCD's don't handle is interlaced video, so that could be
an issue.

Noel

Re: PAL video in the states

[william degnan]

I used to have a little 13 in  tv that could handle about anything I
plugged into it, some are made to handle both pal and ntsc automatically.
Ebay comes to mind, I am talking in the crt days, not sure if they still do
all that for LCD tv's but why not?

Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net
On Jan 13, 2017 7:36 AM, "Tony Duell"  wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 10:47 AM, Corey Cohen 
> wrote:
> > So I have a friend who is originally from the U.K.   He has his old BBC
> micro from when
> > he was a kid and wants to be able to use it here in the states.  His
> parents threw out his old TV in the U.K.
>
> There was actually an NTSC version of the BBC micro. I think you had
> to fit a different colourburst crystal,
> change a link to disable the phase switching of one of the colour
> signals (which is what PAL means, of
> course) and a different operating system ROM to reprogram the 6845 for
> US rates. The last is probably the
> hardest. But anyway...
>
>
>
> >
> > Is there a way to use a BBC Micro PAL version with a modern US LCD TV?
> Do some brands of modern
> > TVs support both NTSC and PAL? Let's assume he may need to grab video
> before the modulator.
>
> I don't know about US TVs, but a lot of UK TVs support NTSC video.
>
> You have 3 video outputs on the Beeb :
>
> UHF RF. This is the old UK analogue TV standard on what was channel
> 36. PAL encoded
>
> Composite (on a BNC socket). This is UK scan rates, and monochrome by
> default. Fitting a
> link on the PCB will get PAL colour there.
>
> RGB (on a 6 pin DIN socket). TTL levels, 3 colour signals (so 8
> possible colours total) + sync.
> If you can find a way to use that, do so. It gives by far the best picture.
>
> -tony
>

Re: PAL video in the states

[Adrian Graham]

On 13 January 2017 at 11:27, Phil Blundell  wrote:

> I imagine more or less any modern TV should be able to cope with the
> 576i timings.  If you plug the "composite" output (BNC connector) into
> the CVBS input on your TV then you'd probably get a decent monochrome
> image.  The BBC doesn't provide chroma information on its composite
> output and, even if it did, I doubt that a US-market TV would be able
> to recover the chroma.
>

It does if you solder in the link at S30 next to the composite output, that
adds chroma to the signal.
It degrades the signal too, but your point still stands :)

-- 
adrian/witchy
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection?
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Re: PAL video in the states

[Tony Duell]

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 10:47 AM, Corey Cohen  wrote:
> So I have a friend who is originally from the U.K.   He has his old BBC micro 
> from when
> he was a kid and wants to be able to use it here in the states.  His parents 
> threw out his old TV in the U.K.

There was actually an NTSC version of the BBC micro. I think you had
to fit a different colourburst crystal,
change a link to disable the phase switching of one of the colour
signals (which is what PAL means, of
course) and a different operating system ROM to reprogram the 6845 for
US rates. The last is probably the
hardest. But anyway...



>
> Is there a way to use a BBC Micro PAL version with a modern US LCD TV?  Do 
> some brands of modern
> TVs support both NTSC and PAL? Let's assume he may need to grab video before 
> the modulator.

I don't know about US TVs, but a lot of UK TVs support NTSC video.

You have 3 video outputs on the Beeb :

UHF RF. This is the old UK analogue TV standard on what was channel
36. PAL encoded

Composite (on a BNC socket). This is UK scan rates, and monochrome by
default. Fitting a
link on the PCB will get PAL colour there.

RGB (on a 6 pin DIN socket). TTL levels, 3 colour signals (so 8
possible colours total) + sync.
If you can find a way to use that, do so. It gives by far the best picture.

-tony

Re: PAL video in the states

[Phil Blundell]

On Fri, 2017-01-13 at 05:47 -0500, Corey Cohen wrote:
> So I have a friend who is originally from the U.K.   He has his old
> BBC micro from when he was a kid and wants to be able to use it here
> in the states.  His parents threw out his old TV in the U.K.  
> 
> Is there a way to use a BBC Micro PAL version with a modern US LCD
> TV?  Do some brands of modern TVs support both NTSC and PAL? Let's
> assume he may need to grab video before the modulator.  

I imagine more or less any modern TV should be able to cope with the
576i timings.  If you plug the "composite" output (BNC connector) into
the CVBS input on your TV then you'd probably get a decent monochrome
image.  The BBC doesn't provide chroma information on its composite
output and, even if it did, I doubt that a US-market TV would be able
to recover the chroma.

To get a colour output you'd have to find a TV which can accept RGB
input and then improvise a way to adapt the TTL-level RGB output from
the DIN socket to the levels that the TV is expecting.  I suspect there
might be some adjustment required to the sync signals as well.  Or I
think there exist converter boxes for this purpose that can take
"analogue" RGB input and convert to HDMI output, doing scan conversion
at the same time if necessary.

p.

PAL video in the states

[Corey Cohen]

So I have a friend who is originally from the U.K.   He has his old BBC micro 
from when he was a kid and wants to be able to use it here in the states.  His 
parents threw out his old TV in the U.K.  

Is there a way to use a BBC Micro PAL version with a modern US LCD TV?  Do some 
brands of modern TVs support both NTSC and PAL? Let's assume he may need to 
grab video before the modulator.  

Thanks,
Corey

corey cohen
uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ