RE: OT: SPAM lists?
It is so funny to see this discussion keep cropping up. The whole blacklisting of open relays is a very touchy issue. I agree that there is little excuse for running an open relay in today's world (though some argue that it is their right... I think this was an issue in MIT vs. MAPS). I will not agree however that running one makes you ignorant. I have been blacklisted and not notified. The blacklist claims that it is not their responsibility to let me know that I was listed. Turns out that the mail server we were using (post.office) has few bugs (or holes) in it's relay filtering and that the only way to prevent it from being used as an open relay is to IP restrict who can connect. This is contrary to the documentation. I only found out about this because a users mail was being rejected and I was able to get a copy of the test that had failed and confirm the bug. This information in hand I resolved it. It have been nice to know I had failed though so that it could have been resolved sooner, this would have been even more effective than blocking me. MAPS has basically been put out of business by getting sued over this issue (I think it was the legal costs though, not the settlements that killed them). It will probably not be long before the others follow suit (no pun intended). The Internet is a collection of private networks and it is within the rights of the owner of every single network to decide who may and may not pass traffic across their backbone, so if they want to subscribe to an ORB, it is their right, however you block someone with deep pockets and you are in for an expensive fight, right or not. my $.002 ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Ditto Bryan Stevenson VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. p. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Exactly my point Bryan Stevenson VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. p. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
h..voluntarily breaking the law you meanthe predecessor to ORDB was ORBS (from Aussie Land) and they got shut down after having two successful legal injunction brought against them. Anyhoo...I'm sure we've beaten this subject to death and nothing is going to change until someone with deep pocktes and some time on there hands sues these guys just like the last ones. Lets put this puppy to rest nowwe're all right in our own little worlds ;-) Bryan Stevenson VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. p. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
I don't know if that is correct. ORDB and the like will get the dumb spammers, but I'd say 95% of the people that get blacklisted are admins with misconfigured servers. Perhaps less, but I think misconfigured servers are the majority. In these cases as soon as the admin is aware of the problem he/she fixes it. If the blacklist services just sent an email before blacklisting the server most of the anger directed at these services would not exist. I know I would totally support them, if they just sent an email first. However, most intelligent spammers don't rely on relays, or stick to blocks of ip's. They take over unused address space and spam away, then drop off the net, or even have their own backbones. These blacklisters are only a false sense of security, run by a bunch of nerds who get a kick out of the power to stop someone else's email server. jon - Original Message - From: "Len Conrad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:57 PM Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > >Yup..I'll take the hit...I should have done more research. The fact still > >remains that groups like ORDB are going too far in their approach to SPAM > > They do much more good than harm, ime. collateral damage isn't fun for the > damaged, but it's recoverable. These people are doing voluntary work. > > Len > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT: SPAM lists?
I just believe ORBS is far to aggressive and then when you want to say its fixed, far too slow... the concept in theory is fine... wish we would start blocking massive DNS blocks and IPS and all sorts of other things across the board... but only when cause exists... (ie: something wrong has happened).. and where people in charge are notified or documentable attempts have been made to contact the power people on the side of error/problem... Sure would work nicely with all the virulent crap circling the web.. sure would put a damper on things... guess it also would place in part, competitors and such in there too :) -paris -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 13:57 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? >Yup..I'll take the hit...I should have done more research. The fact still >remains that groups like ORDB are going too far in their approach to SPAM They do much more good than harm, ime. collateral damage isn't fun for the damaged, but it's recoverable. These people are doing voluntary work. Len http://MenAndMice.com/DNS-training http://BIND8NT.MEIway.com : ISC BIND 8.2.4 for NT4 & W2K http://IMGate.MEIway.com : Build free, hi-perf, anti-abuse mail gateways ~~ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
>Yup..I'll take the hit...I should have done more research. The fact still >remains that groups like ORDB are going too far in their approach to SPAM They do much more good than harm, ime. collateral damage isn't fun for the damaged, but it's recoverable. These people are doing voluntary work. Len http://MenAndMice.com/DNS-training http://BIND8NT.MEIway.com : ISC BIND 8.2.4 for NT4 & W2K http://IMGate.MEIway.com : Build free, hi-perf, anti-abuse mail gateways ~~ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
>Well Len thanks for calling me lazy and incompetent. Until I got >blacklisted I did not know about open relays. So how does that put me in >either category? If you run a public mail server, don't know what open relays are, nor how to close your own, that's incompetence. >The mail server I was running had no documentation about >the possible abuse of or even the existence of open relays. then change mail servers. there's lotsa of good ones around, commercial and free. >I can guarantee you that had I received a warning, it would certainly >would have "energized" me to deal with the situation. So would have coming in the office one morning to find your mail server hijacked and the transit point for 30K abuse mails/hour all night, and 600K mail queued up to go, disk full. >Please watch those blanket statements in the future...because I am far from >lazy or incompetent...you weenie ;-) As with MS and their repeated security screw ups, the grace period for open relays is over, long ago. That said, if you pay to pay MAPS and DL their RBL reverse zone, it's 10+ mb of open relays, IIRC. (Don't put your mailbox server on internet as MX host, either.) Len http://MenAndMice.com/DNS-training http://BIND8NT.MEIway.com : ISC BIND 8.2.4 for NT4 & W2K http://IMGate.MEIway.com : Build free, hi-perf, anti-abuse mail gateways ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT: SPAM lists?
> Well Len thanks for calling me lazy and incompetent. Until I got > blacklisted I did not know about open relays. So how does that > put me in either category? The mail server I was running had no > documentation about the possible abuse of or even the existence > of open relays. I'm the first to admit that my face was red when > I found out that the situation existed and I dropped everything > else I was doing and fixed it immediately. I can guarantee you > that had I received a warning, it would certainly would have > "energized" me to deal with the situation. You're not going to like hearing this, but if you set up an SMTP server without knowing about the possibility of it being an open relay, then you were certainly at that time incompetent as an SMTP server administrator. Don't take it personally - I've done the same thing before, and guess what? At the time, I was certainly incompetent as an SMTP server administrator. I'm probably still incompetent in that role, but at least I know about that problem. I was just like you - I read the software manual, which didn't mention the problem, I installed the software, and away I went, happy as can be, until I got a bunch of complaints about people relaying mail through the server, and shortly after, getting blacklisted by ORBS. When I did find out about the problem, I reconfigured the server, and tried again. It turned out that there were still ways to relay mail through the thing, and I was still blacklisted. It turned out to be far more complicated than it should've been, and if I'd been a competent SMTP administrator, I'd have used a better SMTP server. The larger problem here, and the reason you don't get a warning, is that when you plug servers into the Internet, those servers have the potential to affect any - or every - other server on the Internet. It's unfortunate, but the minimum level of competence is necessarily higher when you plug servers into the Internet, than when you plug them into your own private network. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
You got it Paris..nobody's perfecteven us lazy incompetent folks need help sometimes ;-) Bryan Stevenson VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. p. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT: SPAM lists?
I emailed my old ISP last year to complain about their open relay, since I was getting bounced emails, and they had no idea what an open relay was even when I pointed them to relevant info. So while incompetent is a strong word it can be appropriate in certain instances. John -Original Message- From: BILLY CRAVENS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:27 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? No disrespect intended, but I would say that you should have been aware of the potential issues. "Lazy" and "incompetent" are strong terms. Perhaps "irresponsibly negligent" is better. If someone spreads viruses because their virus scanner didn't tell them they had to update it, that's negligence. If someone doesn't patch IIS and spreads CodeRed, Nimda, et al, to everyone and their dog, that's negligence. Negligence and innocence are not synonymous. You are responsible for the consequences of your configuration. --- Billy Cravens - Original Message - From: "Bryan Stevenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 12:16 PM Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > Well Len thanks for calling me lazy and incompetent. Until I got > blacklisted I did not know about open relays. So how does that put me in > either category? The mail server I was running had no documentation about > the possible abuse of or even the existence of open relays. I'm the first > to admit that my face was red when I found out that the situation existed > and I dropped everything else I was doing and fixed it immeadiately. I can > guarantee you that had I received a warning, it would certainly would have > "energized" me to deal with the situation. > > Please watch those blanket statements in the future...because I am far from > lazy or incompetent...you weenie ;-) > > Bryan Stevenson > VP & Director of E-Commerce Development > Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. > p. 250.920.8830 > e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Yup..I'll take the hit...I should have done more research. The fact still remains that groups like ORDB are going too far in their approach to SPAM Bryan Stevenson VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. p. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT: SPAM lists?
it is a classic age old elitism thing... oh yeah you should know... I know someone who broke into over 2000 computers years ago and someone else who distributed a widely acclaimed worm of its day... needless to say their argument and logic was the same understandably... OH THE DUMB ADMIN... Being an admin has many functions and responsibilities... One important quality is the ability to learn.. another is the prioritization of important things... This argument falls there... Again I guess I will ask it, if open relays are so bad from this side of the house, why do we even include them in mail servers? Just because someone stumps you at Jeopardy on one question doesn't make you stupid or them gifted :) -paris -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 13:17 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? Well Len thanks for calling me lazy and incompetent. Until I got blacklisted I did not know about open relays. So how does that put me in either category? The mail server I was running had no documentation about the possible abuse of or even the existence of open relays. I'm the first to admit that my face was red when I found out that the situation existed and I dropped everything else I was doing and fixed it immeadiately. I can guarantee you that had I received a warning, it would certainly would have "energized" me to deal with the situation. Please watch those blanket statements in the future...because I am far from lazy or incompetent...you weenie ;-) Bryan Stevenson VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. p. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
No disrespect intended, but I would say that you should have been aware of the potential issues. "Lazy" and "incompetent" are strong terms. Perhaps "irresponsibly negligent" is better. If someone spreads viruses because their virus scanner didn't tell them they had to update it, that's negligence. If someone doesn't patch IIS and spreads CodeRed, Nimda, et al, to everyone and their dog, that's negligence. Negligence and innocence are not synonymous. You are responsible for the consequences of your configuration. --- Billy Cravens - Original Message - From: "Bryan Stevenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 12:16 PM Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > Well Len thanks for calling me lazy and incompetent. Until I got > blacklisted I did not know about open relays. So how does that put me in > either category? The mail server I was running had no documentation about > the possible abuse of or even the existence of open relays. I'm the first > to admit that my face was red when I found out that the situation existed > and I dropped everything else I was doing and fixed it immeadiately. I can > guarantee you that had I received a warning, it would certainly would have > "energized" me to deal with the situation. > > Please watch those blanket statements in the future...because I am far from > lazy or incompetent...you weenie ;-) > > Bryan Stevenson > VP & Director of E-Commerce Development > Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. > p. 250.920.8830 > e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ~~ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Well Len thanks for calling me lazy and incompetent. Until I got blacklisted I did not know about open relays. So how does that put me in either category? The mail server I was running had no documentation about the possible abuse of or even the existence of open relays. I'm the first to admit that my face was red when I found out that the situation existed and I dropped everything else I was doing and fixed it immeadiately. I can guarantee you that had I received a warning, it would certainly would have "energized" me to deal with the situation. Please watch those blanket statements in the future...because I am far from lazy or incompetent...you weenie ;-) Bryan Stevenson VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. p. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
True - I wasn't thinking of malicious attacks, I was thinking of SPAM. - Original Message - From: "Len Conrad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 11:57 AM Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > >I'll agree that a blackhole list for web servers is a great idea. > >Definitely a far greater risk and traffic waste than open relays. > > You can only say that since you haven't been the victim of a mutli-week, > high-source-bandwidth DoS and other malicious attacks mounted through > 1000's and 1000's of open relays world-wide. > > Len > > > http://MenAndMice.com/DNS-training > http://BIND8NT.MEIway.com : ISC BIND 8.2.4 for NT4 & W2K > http://IMGate.MEIway.com : Build free, hi-perf, anti-abuse mail gateways > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
>I'll agree that a blackhole list for web servers is a great idea. >Definitely a far greater risk and traffic waste than open relays. You can only say that since you haven't been the victim of a mutli-week, high-source-bandwidth DoS and other malicious attacks mounted through 1000's and 1000's of open relays world-wide. Len http://MenAndMice.com/DNS-training http://BIND8NT.MEIway.com : ISC BIND 8.2.4 for NT4 & W2K http://IMGate.MEIway.com : Build free, hi-perf, anti-abuse mail gateways ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
>And shutting people down with no warning is also inexusable People running open relays are lazy or incompetent, so sending them a warning, even automated (no labor) won't energize them or power up their skills. In 2001, every mail admin has used up his "virtual three strikes". No excuse, no warning. Len http://MenAndMice.com/DNS-training http://BIND8NT.MEIway.com : ISC BIND 8.2.4 for NT4 & W2K http://IMGate.MEIway.com : Build free, hi-perf, anti-abuse mail gateways ~~ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
I'll agree that a blackhole list for web servers is a great idea. Definitely a far greater risk and traffic waste than open relays. - Original Message - From: "Paris Lundis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 11:20 AM Subject: RE: OT: SPAM lists? > the anti-spam passion always gets funny :) > > a similar but certainly costly non blockable, but regulated by bad laws, is > the legislation they passed on unsolicited fax transmissions... > > then again, I bet everyone doesn't attack their postman/post office about > all the unsolicited paper form junk mail they receive :) > > even if a mail server being open is theoretically bad and your blocking it > prevents some mail from flowing through it we are talking about hindering > another's ability to provide service in an open environment... certainly > whoever, raises any suit will notably sue both those blocking and ORBZ then. > > blocking because of risk is bad bad bad.. it is unproven... the likelihood > that someone is going to do something wrong is unfounded until it happens... > the impact on public health and safety therefore is about 0. > > the whole over reactive security aka I hate spam approach is way too far... > whether a relay is open because it is, or admin hasn't hardened it or it is > testing or a number of other things... > > I say this all because we handle near 500 domains across various platforms > and they certainly receive a lot of spam... but it hardly is something that > even causes much effort more than a few delete key presses.. > > ORBZ service is just horrible... basically wait for days... configure, > reconfigure, etc > > I wish ORBZ would write a crawler to find security holes in others web > servers then destroy their DNS ability/records since they haven't patched... > now that would be nice.. sure would cut down on all that spare traffic > absorbed by admins who haven't patched or won't in months. Now that would be > useful :) > > -paris > > > -Original Message- > From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 11:37 > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > > > It's the fact that the legit folks get nailed as well. > > Listen..we all agree that spam is evil...we all agree that mail servers > should not be open.BUT is it so bad to give the folks running the server > a chance to fix it first?? My issue is that once found to be open it is > incredibly difficult to get off the blacklist. This means that legit folks > can be without mail for a long time. Even if ORDB continues to aid in > stopping legit mail, they could at least invest in some decent hardware and > bandwidth. I mean 5-10 hours to test a mail server is so ridiculous it's > not funny. If they are going to keep it up then the test should be avble to > be performed in a matter of minutes and not hours. > > They suckI'm right...so na na na na naaa ;-) > > Bryan Stevenson > VP & Director of E-Commerce Development > Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. > p. 250.920.8830 > e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
To avoid Nimda, CodeRed, et al, I usually leave the network cable unplugged when installing. I then disable IIS, replug the network cable, install SP, then turn IIS back on. Pretty simple. Personally, I think it's OK to get blocked.. as long as notification and retesting happen in a timely fashion.I agree that the whole process could be done in a matter of minutes rather than hours. I still believe that you are responsible for the consequences of your configuration. - Original Message - From: "Jochem van Dieten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 11:11 AM Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > Bryan Stevenson wrote: > > > It's the fact that the legit folks get nailed as well. > > > > Listen..we all agree that spam is evil...we all agree that mail servers > > should not be open.BUT is it so bad to give the folks running the server > > a chance to fix it first?? > > > I would also very much like a chance to update my Win2K to SP2 and > supply some security fixes directly after install, but Nimda always gets > there first. Shouldn't I get a chance to fix it first? > > Face it, it is the way things work. You may not like it this way because > you were running an Open Relay and got locked out, but I like it this > way. And I control what email gets through to my server. > > > > My issue is that once found to be open it is > > incredibly difficult to get off the blacklist. This means that legit folks > > can be without mail for a long time. Even if ORDB continues to aid in > > stopping legit mail, they could at least invest in some decent hardware and > > bandwidth. I mean 5-10 hours to test a mail server is so ridiculous it's > > not funny. If they are going to keep it up then the test should be avble to > > be performed in a matter of minutes and not hours. > > > Actually, hardware and bandwidth are not the issue, sufficient testing > clones spread around the globe and testing interval randomization are > the issue. If they simply used 1 IP to do all the testing it would be > pretty simple to lock out that IP. If they use more but test immediately > it is still very easy to lock out their IPs. > > Jochem > ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
I agree they are definately way to overzealous and their server sucks. Probably because no one will host them :) However, they are not the worst. We got onto some list called Pegasus or something a while back, and it is absolutely insane how they run this thing. They do a lookup on ARIN and block every netblock that is owned by the netblock that failed one of their tests. We think a dial up customer sent some spam, not sure though. Their web site does not tell how one got on their blacklist and they do not answer emails. We were never able to get off of their list despite the fact that orbs thinks we are fine... We actually went and got a couple more netblocks and another backup backbone provider, stuck our mail servers on the new backbone and forgot about them. We might still be blacklisted for all I know :-) What's worse is that the people who use the blacklist services really do not know how these lists work. I talked to two different admins that ran this Pegasus list and they had no clue how one got on or off the list. They also didn't know who ran it or how it was run. Sounds like a protection racket to me. jon - Original Message - From: "Bryan Stevenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 11:37 AM Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > It's the fact that the legit folks get nailed as well. > > Listen..we all agree that spam is evil...we all agree that mail servers > should not be open.BUT is it so bad to give the folks running the server > a chance to fix it first?? My issue is that once found to be open it is > incredibly difficult to get off the blacklist. This means that legit folks > can be without mail for a long time. Even if ORDB continues to aid in > stopping legit mail, they could at least invest in some decent hardware and > bandwidth. I mean 5-10 hours to test a mail server is so ridiculous it's > not funny. If they are going to keep it up then the test should be avble to > be performed in a matter of minutes and not hours. > > They suckI'm right...so na na na na naaa ;-) > > Bryan Stevenson > VP & Director of E-Commerce Development > Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. > p. 250.920.8830 > e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ~~ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT: SPAM lists?
the anti-spam passion always gets funny :) a similar but certainly costly non blockable, but regulated by bad laws, is the legislation they passed on unsolicited fax transmissions... then again, I bet everyone doesn't attack their postman/post office about all the unsolicited paper form junk mail they receive :) even if a mail server being open is theoretically bad and your blocking it prevents some mail from flowing through it we are talking about hindering another's ability to provide service in an open environment... certainly whoever, raises any suit will notably sue both those blocking and ORBZ then. blocking because of risk is bad bad bad.. it is unproven... the likelihood that someone is going to do something wrong is unfounded until it happens... the impact on public health and safety therefore is about 0. the whole over reactive security aka I hate spam approach is way too far... whether a relay is open because it is, or admin hasn't hardened it or it is testing or a number of other things... I say this all because we handle near 500 domains across various platforms and they certainly receive a lot of spam... but it hardly is something that even causes much effort more than a few delete key presses.. ORBZ service is just horrible... basically wait for days... configure, reconfigure, etc I wish ORBZ would write a crawler to find security holes in others web servers then destroy their DNS ability/records since they haven't patched... now that would be nice.. sure would cut down on all that spare traffic absorbed by admins who haven't patched or won't in months. Now that would be useful :) -paris -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 11:37 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? It's the fact that the legit folks get nailed as well. Listen..we all agree that spam is evil...we all agree that mail servers should not be open.BUT is it so bad to give the folks running the server a chance to fix it first?? My issue is that once found to be open it is incredibly difficult to get off the blacklist. This means that legit folks can be without mail for a long time. Even if ORDB continues to aid in stopping legit mail, they could at least invest in some decent hardware and bandwidth. I mean 5-10 hours to test a mail server is so ridiculous it's not funny. If they are going to keep it up then the test should be avble to be performed in a matter of minutes and not hours. They suckI'm right...so na na na na naaa ;-) Bryan Stevenson VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. p. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
You're comparing what an organization like ORDB does to a virusgee I guess your are coming around to my view ;-) Bryan Stevenson VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. p. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Bryan Stevenson wrote: > It's the fact that the legit folks get nailed as well. > > Listen..we all agree that spam is evil...we all agree that mail servers > should not be open.BUT is it so bad to give the folks running the server > a chance to fix it first?? I would also very much like a chance to update my Win2K to SP2 and supply some security fixes directly after install, but Nimda always gets there first. Shouldn't I get a chance to fix it first? Face it, it is the way things work. You may not like it this way because you were running an Open Relay and got locked out, but I like it this way. And I control what email gets through to my server. > My issue is that once found to be open it is > incredibly difficult to get off the blacklist. This means that legit folks > can be without mail for a long time. Even if ORDB continues to aid in > stopping legit mail, they could at least invest in some decent hardware and > bandwidth. I mean 5-10 hours to test a mail server is so ridiculous it's > not funny. If they are going to keep it up then the test should be avble to > be performed in a matter of minutes and not hours. Actually, hardware and bandwidth are not the issue, sufficient testing clones spread around the globe and testing interval randomization are the issue. If they simply used 1 IP to do all the testing it would be pretty simple to lock out that IP. If they use more but test immediately it is still very easy to lock out their IPs. Jochem ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
It's the fact that the legit folks get nailed as well. Listen..we all agree that spam is evil...we all agree that mail servers should not be open.BUT is it so bad to give the folks running the server a chance to fix it first?? My issue is that once found to be open it is incredibly difficult to get off the blacklist. This means that legit folks can be without mail for a long time. Even if ORDB continues to aid in stopping legit mail, they could at least invest in some decent hardware and bandwidth. I mean 5-10 hours to test a mail server is so ridiculous it's not funny. If they are going to keep it up then the test should be avble to be performed in a matter of minutes and not hours. They suckI'm right...so na na na na naaa ;-) Bryan Stevenson VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. p. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Bryan Stevenson wrote: > > And shutting people down with no warning is also inexusable Why? We use ORDB because we don't want email from servers that are open relays. So every time we ask ORDB whether they believe you are an open relay and if they say they think you are we refuse the mail. We know that there will be instances in which we refuse mail that is legit, or mail servers that are not open relays, but it is our server, and we decide who gets to deliver email on it. What is inexcusable about that? Jochem ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Geesh...glad I don't work for you ;-) Bryan Stevenson VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. p. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
I would agree that it would be best to give a warning with an opportunity to fix the problem. However, the fact that your relay was open is the source of the problem. If I found myself in the appropriate role, upon hearing of open relays in my company I'd start handing out directions to the local unemployment office. If you can't configure it properly, don't run it. - Original Message - From: "Bryan Stevenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 10:26 AM Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > > >To go back to your gun analogy, > > >we are restricted in possession and use of guns in order to reduce the > > >likelihood of homicides. Otherwise, I should be able to carry a locked > and > > >loaded gun anywhere I choose. > > > > open relay MX's lying around will be picked up by spammers and used as > > weapons. Running an open relay is inexcusable. > > > > Len > > And shutting people down with no warning is also inexusable > > Bryan > > > > > > > http://MenAndMice.com/DNS-training > > http://BIND8NT.MEIway.com : ISC BIND 8.2.4 for NT4 & W2K > > http://IMGate.MEIway.com : Build free, hi-perf, anti-abuse mail gateways > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
> >To go back to your gun analogy, > >we are restricted in possession and use of guns in order to reduce the > >likelihood of homicides. Otherwise, I should be able to carry a locked and > >loaded gun anywhere I choose. > > open relay MX's lying around will be picked up by spammers and used as > weapons. Running an open relay is inexcusable. > > Len And shutting people down with no warning is also inexusable Bryan > > > http://MenAndMice.com/DNS-training > http://BIND8NT.MEIway.com : ISC BIND 8.2.4 for NT4 & W2K > http://IMGate.MEIway.com : Build free, hi-perf, anti-abuse mail gateways > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Just as a clarification: The "IMS" mentioned below is emwac IMS (http://www1.sica.com/ims/) and not our mail server product. On-Line Data Solutions owns the trademark to "iMS" but there are many web sites that refer to the old emwac server as "IMS." Regards, -- Howie Hamlin - inFusion Project Manager On-Line Data Solutions, Inc. - www.CoolFusion.com - 631-737-4668 x101 inFusion Mail Server (iMS) - The Intelligent Mail Server <<< Vote for iMS as the CFDJ Reader's Choice Awards Most Innovative Product >>> http://www.sys-con.com/coldfusion/readerschoice2001/nominationformbpa.cfm >>> Find out how iMS Stacks up to the competition: >http://www.coolfusion.com/imssecomparison.cfm - Original Message - From: "Bryan Stevenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 3:48 PM Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > Hey All, > > > I just had an mazingly frustrating experiences with one of the blackhole > database maintainers (ordb.org). These folks think they are doing favours > by helping ISP's to block mail server IPs that are running open relays > (allow spammers to send using that mail server), but their implementation > SUCKS! > > The Scenario: > > I'm running a development box with IMS as a mail server (and hosting a > client's domain during development). After about 8 months with no mail > issues whatsoever I receive a bunch of spam test messages from ORDB.org and > then get a message saying that my mai lever was an open relay and had been > added to their database. This database is provided to ISPs so they can > block ALL mail coming from the IP addresses in it. > > SOOOOO ORDB thinks it's best to just add my IP with NO warning and > no chance to fix the issue before getting blacklisted. Well that bit of > strong arming shut down my mail server and my client couldn't send any mail > (BTW my logs show that no spam EVER went through the system). You then have > to try and fix the problem (not easy in IMS) and submit your IP for > re-testing (which they say takes 5-10 hours...reality was 12 plus hrs). If > you haven't closed the relay then you have to try again (which I had to do). > > My client was without e-mail for over 2 days. I had to get rid of IMS and > found a GREAT free mail servr that allows SMTP authentication (Argo > Soft...get it). > > My communications with ORDB were less than fruitful. They didn't care that > my mail service was interrupted and said they don't give you a warning > because then more spam would get through (which there was none). So these > guys would rather innocent people lose their mail service instead of > allowing a few more spams through...geesh. To top it off they hide behind > the "well it;s the ISPs that block you..we just provide them with the > database of IPs". Which transaltes to "He didn't have to use the gun I > handed him"!! > > Well their predecesor ORBS had 2 legal injunctions against them and had to > shut down. I'm sure if they continue to stop valid mail service that > someone with the time and money will go after them too...awww what a > shame *insert eveil grin here* > > > Thanks for listening...and get ArgoSoft's mail serversuper easy to use > and install > > Bryan Stevenson > VP & Director of E-Commerce Development > Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. > p. 250.920.8830 > e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
>To go back to your gun analogy, >we are restricted in possession and use of guns in order to reduce the >likelihood of homicides. Otherwise, I should be able to carry a locked and >loaded gun anywhere I choose. open relay MX's lying around will be picked up by spammers and used as weapons. Running an open relay is inexcusable. Len http://MenAndMice.com/DNS-training http://BIND8NT.MEIway.com : ISC BIND 8.2.4 for NT4 & W2K http://IMGate.MEIway.com : Build free, hi-perf, anti-abuse mail gateways ~~ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT: SPAM lists?
amen. -Original Message- From: tom muck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 18:20 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? The only thing worse than spam is that nazi-like ORBZ. tom "Paris Lundis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > yeah we have had problems with ORBS... weirdly it called one of our servers > open somehow because we customarily bounce bad mail back or have a responder > reply that the account has moved or is invalid... whatever, no relaying... > or so it says in my configuration.. ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
yup..but they are gone apparently..the lawyer got 'em Now can I hear a big w what a shame ;-) Bryan Stevenson VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. p. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
The only thing worse than spam is that nazi-like ORBZ. tom "Paris Lundis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > yeah we have had problems with ORBS... weirdly it called one of our servers > open somehow because we customarily bounce bad mail back or have a responder > reply that the account has moved or is invalid... whatever, no relaying... > or so it says in my configuration.. ~~ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
I agree. I do think that servers that have been found guilty of sending SPAM can't complain. However, I'm not sure I agree with the policy, but I can see the validity of blocking all open relays, since it's not uncommon for SPAM artists to scan for open relays. To go back to your gun analogy, we are restricted in possession and use of guns in order to reduce the likelihood of homicides. Otherwise, I should be able to carry a locked and loaded gun anywhere I choose. Personally, I'd prefer this: if I get SPAM from your mail server, the end user, and ISP's that have to bear traffic, have liability rights. If you leave your relay open, and someone sends me SPAM from it, I (and every other recipient of that SPAM) can charge you $50/email (my rate for having to deal with SPAM), as well as anyone affected by your traffic (for bandwidth, wear on hard drives, etc, per their own rates). - Original Message - From: "Paris Lundis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 4:56 PM Subject: RE: OT: SPAM lists? > oh yeah without a doubt one should be responsible if something isn't locked > down.. but I don't see anyone suing people because they spread a virus via > there email contact list unknowingly or the mass of traffic/faulty attacks > generated when one of these worms gets loose... I only see one or two > providers saying enough is enough and axing their users access until the > patch > > the difference between an open mail relay and an open server is graphically > different > > an open server can expose privileged information, be used to attack other > machines, giveaway source and other intellectual property... > > an open relay can only be used to send mail... > > blocking an open mail server that hasn't sent or relayed any bad mail is > like giving everyone drinking a beer a DUI because they theoretically have > the ability to achieve such.. or a homicide case to a gun owner... > > this prevention mentality fails really badly... relaying is in part a > positive thing and needed in some circumstances... otherwise it wouldn't > ever be a feature... > > should I take an anonymous FTP section owner and sue him because my program > theoretically could be stored on his site illegally or scads of other > preventative measures against normal web services... or maybe we can block > DNS entries of sites we don't politically agree with... > > I should stop before someone gets some bad ideas really... > > -paris > > > -Original Message- > From: BILLY CRAVENS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 17:40 > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > > > My opinion would be that if you are running a mail server, it is your > responsibility to be aware of and control how it relays. (IMO, falls into > the same bucket as setting up IIS and being aware of things like Code Red) > However, I will agree that some of the blackhole lists are a bit flawed in > their implementation. > > - Original Message - > From: "Troy Montour" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 4:34 PM > Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > > > > Bryan, > > I know your feeling they did it to me while I was first setting up my > > server for my domain and a friends. and it was a bear to get it off there > > cause it was new software that I never used but after getting it set-up it > > was a good software package. The mail server is from icewarp called Merak > it > > cost money but has some nice features with it. > > if you want to check them out its > > www.icewarp.com > > > > but I just wanted to add my 2 cents. > > > > Troy Montour > > Vampires Inc > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Bryan Stevenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 2:48 PM > > Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > > > > > > > Hey All, > > > > > > > > > I just had an mazingly frustrating experiences with one of the blackhole > > > database maintainers (ordb.org). These folks think they are doing > favours > > > by helping ISP's to block mail server IPs that are running open relays > > > (allow spammers to send using that mail server), but their > implementation > > > SUCKS! > > > > > > The Scenario: > > > > > > I'm running a development box with IMS as a mail server (and hosting a > > > client's domain
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Ahh yes...blacklisting is fine BUT They should give you a few days grace to fix the issue before they do it. A little more spam won't hurt anyone and the grace period means that the valid users of the mail server don't have their service interuppted as a result of the blacklisting without notification. Bryan Stevenson VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. p. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Go Paris! I think we see eye-to-eye ;-) Bryan Stevenson VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. p. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT: SPAM lists?
> My opinion would be that if you are running a mail server, it is your > responsibility to be aware of and control how it relays. (IMO, falls into > the same bucket as setting up IIS and being aware of things like Code Red) I second this opinion. Everyone is responsible for maintaining your servers in a net-friendly manner. Some people don't know how, others forget or don't have the time. Too much effort to track down and warn everyone (how they supposed to do that anyway?). Blacklisting is the only way. > However, I will agree that some of the blackhole lists are a bit flawed in > their implementation. True, so true... -Cameron Cameron Childress elliptIQ Inc. p.770.460.1035.232 f.770.460.0963 -- http://www.neighborware.com America's Leading Community Network Software > -Original Message- > From: BILLY CRAVENS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 5:40 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > > > My opinion would be that if you are running a mail server, it is your > responsibility to be aware of and control how it relays. (IMO, falls into > the same bucket as setting up IIS and being aware of things like Code Red) > However, I will agree that some of the blackhole lists are a bit flawed in > their implementation. > > - Original Message - > From: "Troy Montour" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 4:34 PM > Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > > > > Bryan, > > I know your feeling they did it to me while I was first > setting up my > > server for my domain and a friends. and it was a bear to get it > off there > > cause it was new software that I never used but after getting > it set-up it > > was a good software package. The mail server is from icewarp > called Merak > it > > cost money but has some nice features with it. > > if you want to check them out its > > www.icewarp.com > > > > but I just wanted to add my 2 cents. > > > > Troy Montour > > Vampires Inc > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Bryan Stevenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 2:48 PM > > Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > > > > > > > Hey All, > > > > > > > > > I just had an mazingly frustrating experiences with one of > the blackhole > > > database maintainers (ordb.org). These folks think they are doing > favours > > > by helping ISP's to block mail server IPs that are running open relays > > > (allow spammers to send using that mail server), but their > implementation > > > SUCKS! > > > > > > The Scenario: > > > > > > I'm running a development box with IMS as a mail server (and > hosting a > > > client's domain during development). After about 8 months > with no mail > > > issues whatsoever I receive a bunch of spam test messages > from ORDB.org > > and > > > then get a message saying that my mai lever was an open relay and had > been > > > added to their database. This database is provided to ISPs > so they can > > > block ALL mail coming from the IP addresses in it. > > > > > > SOOOOO ORDB thinks it's best to just add my IP with NO warning > and > > > no chance to fix the issue before getting blacklisted. Well > that bit of > > > strong arming shut down my mail server and my client couldn't send any > > mail > > > (BTW my logs show that no spam EVER went through the system). > You then > > have > > > to try and fix the problem (not easy in IMS) and submit your IP for > > > re-testing (which they say takes 5-10 hours...reality was 12 > plus hrs). > > If > > > you haven't closed the relay then you have to try again > (which I had to > > do). > > > > > > My client was without e-mail for over 2 days. I had to get rid of IMS > and > > > found a GREAT free mail servr that allows SMTP authentication (Argo > > > Soft...get it). > > > > > > My communications with ORDB were less than fruitful. They didn't care > > that > > > my mail service was interrupted and said they don't give you a warning > > > because then more spam would get through (which there was none). So > these > > > guys would rather innocent people lose their mail service instead of > > > allowing a few more spams through...geesh
RE: OT: SPAM lists?
oh yeah without a doubt one should be responsible if something isn't locked down.. but I don't see anyone suing people because they spread a virus via there email contact list unknowingly or the mass of traffic/faulty attacks generated when one of these worms gets loose... I only see one or two providers saying enough is enough and axing their users access until the patch the difference between an open mail relay and an open server is graphically different an open server can expose privileged information, be used to attack other machines, giveaway source and other intellectual property... an open relay can only be used to send mail... blocking an open mail server that hasn't sent or relayed any bad mail is like giving everyone drinking a beer a DUI because they theoretically have the ability to achieve such.. or a homicide case to a gun owner... this prevention mentality fails really badly... relaying is in part a positive thing and needed in some circumstances... otherwise it wouldn't ever be a feature... should I take an anonymous FTP section owner and sue him because my program theoretically could be stored on his site illegally or scads of other preventative measures against normal web services... or maybe we can block DNS entries of sites we don't politically agree with... I should stop before someone gets some bad ideas really... -paris -Original Message- From: BILLY CRAVENS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 17:40 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? My opinion would be that if you are running a mail server, it is your responsibility to be aware of and control how it relays. (IMO, falls into the same bucket as setting up IIS and being aware of things like Code Red) However, I will agree that some of the blackhole lists are a bit flawed in their implementation. - Original Message - From: "Troy Montour" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 4:34 PM Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > Bryan, > I know your feeling they did it to me while I was first setting up my > server for my domain and a friends. and it was a bear to get it off there > cause it was new software that I never used but after getting it set-up it > was a good software package. The mail server is from icewarp called Merak it > cost money but has some nice features with it. > if you want to check them out its > www.icewarp.com > > but I just wanted to add my 2 cents. > > Troy Montour > Vampires Inc > > - Original Message - > From: "Bryan Stevenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 2:48 PM > Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > > > > Hey All, > > > > > > I just had an mazingly frustrating experiences with one of the blackhole > > database maintainers (ordb.org). These folks think they are doing favours > > by helping ISP's to block mail server IPs that are running open relays > > (allow spammers to send using that mail server), but their implementation > > SUCKS! > > > > The Scenario: > > > > I'm running a development box with IMS as a mail server (and hosting a > > client's domain during development). After about 8 months with no mail > > issues whatsoever I receive a bunch of spam test messages from ORDB.org > and > > then get a message saying that my mai lever was an open relay and had been > > added to their database. This database is provided to ISPs so they can > > block ALL mail coming from the IP addresses in it. > > > > SOOOOO ORDB thinks it's best to just add my IP with NO warning and > > no chance to fix the issue before getting blacklisted. Well that bit of > > strong arming shut down my mail server and my client couldn't send any > mail > > (BTW my logs show that no spam EVER went through the system). You then > have > > to try and fix the problem (not easy in IMS) and submit your IP for > > re-testing (which they say takes 5-10 hours...reality was 12 plus hrs). > If > > you haven't closed the relay then you have to try again (which I had to > do). > > > > My client was without e-mail for over 2 days. I had to get rid of IMS and > > found a GREAT free mail servr that allows SMTP authentication (Argo > > Soft...get it). > > > > My communications with ORDB were less than fruitful. They didn't care > that > > my mail service was interrupted and said they don't give you a warning > > because then more spam would get through (which there was none). So these > > guys would rather innocent people lose their mail service instead of &
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
My opinion would be that if you are running a mail server, it is your responsibility to be aware of and control how it relays. (IMO, falls into the same bucket as setting up IIS and being aware of things like Code Red) However, I will agree that some of the blackhole lists are a bit flawed in their implementation. - Original Message - From: "Troy Montour" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 4:34 PM Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > Bryan, > I know your feeling they did it to me while I was first setting up my > server for my domain and a friends. and it was a bear to get it off there > cause it was new software that I never used but after getting it set-up it > was a good software package. The mail server is from icewarp called Merak it > cost money but has some nice features with it. > if you want to check them out its > www.icewarp.com > > but I just wanted to add my 2 cents. > > Troy Montour > Vampires Inc > > - Original Message - > From: "Bryan Stevenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 2:48 PM > Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > > > > Hey All, > > > > > > I just had an mazingly frustrating experiences with one of the blackhole > > database maintainers (ordb.org). These folks think they are doing favours > > by helping ISP's to block mail server IPs that are running open relays > > (allow spammers to send using that mail server), but their implementation > > SUCKS! > > > > The Scenario: > > > > I'm running a development box with IMS as a mail server (and hosting a > > client's domain during development). After about 8 months with no mail > > issues whatsoever I receive a bunch of spam test messages from ORDB.org > and > > then get a message saying that my mai lever was an open relay and had been > > added to their database. This database is provided to ISPs so they can > > block ALL mail coming from the IP addresses in it. > > > > SOOOOO ORDB thinks it's best to just add my IP with NO warning and > > no chance to fix the issue before getting blacklisted. Well that bit of > > strong arming shut down my mail server and my client couldn't send any > mail > > (BTW my logs show that no spam EVER went through the system). You then > have > > to try and fix the problem (not easy in IMS) and submit your IP for > > re-testing (which they say takes 5-10 hours...reality was 12 plus hrs). > If > > you haven't closed the relay then you have to try again (which I had to > do). > > > > My client was without e-mail for over 2 days. I had to get rid of IMS and > > found a GREAT free mail servr that allows SMTP authentication (Argo > > Soft...get it). > > > > My communications with ORDB were less than fruitful. They didn't care > that > > my mail service was interrupted and said they don't give you a warning > > because then more spam would get through (which there was none). So these > > guys would rather innocent people lose their mail service instead of > > allowing a few more spams through...geesh. To top it off they hide behind > > the "well it;s the ISPs that block you..we just provide them with the > > database of IPs". Which transaltes to "He didn't have to use the gun I > > handed him"!! > > > > Well their predecesor ORBS had 2 legal injunctions against them and had to > > shut down. I'm sure if they continue to stop valid mail service that > > someone with the time and money will go after them too...awww what a > > shame *insert eveil grin here* > > > > > > Thanks for listening...and get ArgoSoft's mail serversuper easy to use > > and install > > > > Bryan Stevenson > > VP & Director of E-Commerce Development > > Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. > > p. 250.920.8830 > > e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT: SPAM lists?
yeah we have had problems with ORBS... weirdly it called one of our servers open somehow because we customarily bounce bad mail back or have a responder reply that the account has moved or is invalid... whatever, no relaying... or so it says in my configuration.. based on their lack of service, documentation and slow response if is an ass burner... I had a ditto experience a while back... sooner or later someone will haul them in and find five others and class action them... It is a nice gesture... but way to heavy handed... they should at least allow unlimited resubmissions for debugging purposes never nice dealing with them... It is like dealing with the Borg... Well two of us.. who else hates this piece of net trash? -paris -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 15:48 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? Hey All, I just had an mazingly frustrating experiences with one of the blackhole database maintainers (ordb.org). These folks think they are doing favours by helping ISP's to block mail server IPs that are running open relays (allow spammers to send using that mail server), but their implementation SUCKS! The Scenario: I'm running a development box with IMS as a mail server (and hosting a client's domain during development). After about 8 months with no mail issues whatsoever I receive a bunch of spam test messages from ORDB.org and then get a message saying that my mai lever was an open relay and had been added to their database. This database is provided to ISPs so they can block ALL mail coming from the IP addresses in it. SOOOOO ORDB thinks it's best to just add my IP with NO warning and no chance to fix the issue before getting blacklisted. Well that bit of strong arming shut down my mail server and my client couldn't send any mail (BTW my logs show that no spam EVER went through the system). You then have to try and fix the problem (not easy in IMS) and submit your IP for re-testing (which they say takes 5-10 hours...reality was 12 plus hrs). If you haven't closed the relay then you have to try again (which I had to do). My client was without e-mail for over 2 days. I had to get rid of IMS and found a GREAT free mail servr that allows SMTP authentication (Argo Soft...get it). My communications with ORDB were less than fruitful. They didn't care that my mail service was interrupted and said they don't give you a warning because then more spam would get through (which there was none). So these guys would rather innocent people lose their mail service instead of allowing a few more spams through...geesh. To top it off they hide behind the "well it;s the ISPs that block you..we just provide them with the database of IPs". Which transaltes to "He didn't have to use the gun I handed him"!! Well their predecesor ORBS had 2 legal injunctions against them and had to shut down. I'm sure if they continue to stop valid mail service that someone with the time and money will go after them too...awww what a shame *insert eveil grin here* Thanks for listening...and get ArgoSoft's mail serversuper easy to use and install Bryan Stevenson VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. p. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Bryan, I know your feeling they did it to me while I was first setting up my server for my domain and a friends. and it was a bear to get it off there cause it was new software that I never used but after getting it set-up it was a good software package. The mail server is from icewarp called Merak it cost money but has some nice features with it. if you want to check them out its www.icewarp.com but I just wanted to add my 2 cents. Troy Montour Vampires Inc - Original Message - From: "Bryan Stevenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 2:48 PM Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > Hey All, > > > I just had an mazingly frustrating experiences with one of the blackhole > database maintainers (ordb.org). These folks think they are doing favours > by helping ISP's to block mail server IPs that are running open relays > (allow spammers to send using that mail server), but their implementation > SUCKS! > > The Scenario: > > I'm running a development box with IMS as a mail server (and hosting a > client's domain during development). After about 8 months with no mail > issues whatsoever I receive a bunch of spam test messages from ORDB.org and > then get a message saying that my mai lever was an open relay and had been > added to their database. This database is provided to ISPs so they can > block ALL mail coming from the IP addresses in it. > > SOOOOO ORDB thinks it's best to just add my IP with NO warning and > no chance to fix the issue before getting blacklisted. Well that bit of > strong arming shut down my mail server and my client couldn't send any mail > (BTW my logs show that no spam EVER went through the system). You then have > to try and fix the problem (not easy in IMS) and submit your IP for > re-testing (which they say takes 5-10 hours...reality was 12 plus hrs). If > you haven't closed the relay then you have to try again (which I had to do). > > My client was without e-mail for over 2 days. I had to get rid of IMS and > found a GREAT free mail servr that allows SMTP authentication (Argo > Soft...get it). > > My communications with ORDB were less than fruitful. They didn't care that > my mail service was interrupted and said they don't give you a warning > because then more spam would get through (which there was none). So these > guys would rather innocent people lose their mail service instead of > allowing a few more spams through...geesh. To top it off they hide behind > the "well it;s the ISPs that block you..we just provide them with the > database of IPs". Which transaltes to "He didn't have to use the gun I > handed him"!! > > Well their predecesor ORBS had 2 legal injunctions against them and had to > shut down. I'm sure if they continue to stop valid mail service that > someone with the time and money will go after them too...awww what a > shame *insert eveil grin here* > > > Thanks for listening...and get ArgoSoft's mail serversuper easy to use > and install > > Bryan Stevenson > VP & Director of E-Commerce Development > Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. > p. 250.920.8830 > e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Hey All, I just had an mazingly frustrating experiences with one of the blackhole database maintainers (ordb.org). These folks think they are doing favours by helping ISP's to block mail server IPs that are running open relays (allow spammers to send using that mail server), but their implementation SUCKS! The Scenario: I'm running a development box with IMS as a mail server (and hosting a client's domain during development). After about 8 months with no mail issues whatsoever I receive a bunch of spam test messages from ORDB.org and then get a message saying that my mai lever was an open relay and had been added to their database. This database is provided to ISPs so they can block ALL mail coming from the IP addresses in it. SOOOOO ORDB thinks it's best to just add my IP with NO warning and no chance to fix the issue before getting blacklisted. Well that bit of strong arming shut down my mail server and my client couldn't send any mail (BTW my logs show that no spam EVER went through the system). You then have to try and fix the problem (not easy in IMS) and submit your IP for re-testing (which they say takes 5-10 hours...reality was 12 plus hrs). If you haven't closed the relay then you have to try again (which I had to do). My client was without e-mail for over 2 days. I had to get rid of IMS and found a GREAT free mail servr that allows SMTP authentication (Argo Soft...get it). My communications with ORDB were less than fruitful. They didn't care that my mail service was interrupted and said they don't give you a warning because then more spam would get through (which there was none). So these guys would rather innocent people lose their mail service instead of allowing a few more spams through...geesh. To top it off they hide behind the "well it;s the ISPs that block you..we just provide them with the database of IPs". Which transaltes to "He didn't have to use the gun I handed him"!! Well their predecesor ORBS had 2 legal injunctions against them and had to shut down. I'm sure if they continue to stop valid mail service that someone with the time and money will go after them too...awww what a shame *insert eveil grin here* Thanks for listening...and get ArgoSoft's mail serversuper easy to use and install Bryan Stevenson VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. p. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Personally, I'd like to avoid the blackhole lists. Reason being, it's very easy to get unfairly placed on their list - perfect example was the VerizonMail.com? domain. I'd like to avoid as much spam as possible, but still take as much care to ensure that real users (ie, non-scumbags) can reach me. The moment that I have to tell a friend, business associate, or potential customer that their email couldn't reach me because my spam filter "caught" them, is the moment that I've gone too far. One liner to prevent 100% of spam: *@*.* - Original Message - From: "Len Conrad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 2:54 PM Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > >I was looking at automating my server-side SPAM filtering. Are there > >any resources for pulling known SPAM addresses? Free, as in beer? > > We run an SMTP anti-abuse gateway, and subcribe it to selected RBL servers, > do DNS validations, enforce SMTP protocol compliance, regex filters on > headers, bodies, attachments. This kills 90% of spam, and a bunch of > worms, virii, too without costing anything. > > A couple of new ones that look promising are spamassassin.taint.org and > tmda.sourceforge.net. > > Another one combines the MAIL FROM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a lookup of the > owner of the sending mailserver's ip. If you say [EMAIL PROTECTED] and your > mailserver is not an AOL ip, click. > > Len > > > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
I know but I don't like them much as they've banned me in the past even though I'm covered hole wise. What I want is a distributed network for people who know each other to be able to pull down definitions of spam from subject lines (and portions of the same), email from, email to, etc. An automatic download of an WDDX packet every night would allow us to be up to date and we would know where each spam setting came from. At 03:47 PM 12/4/01, you wrote: >iMS does have direct support for ORBs-type blackhole lists... > >Regards, > >Howie > >- Original Message - >From: "Michael Dinowitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 3:19 PM >Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > > > > Other than black hole lists, I don't know of any. I read of a distributed > > system being worked up on slashdot a few days back. I was going to suggest > > the same thing for iMS users to catalog email addresses, subjects, etc. of > > spam to be blocked. > > > > At 03:15 PM 12/4/01, you wrote: > > >I was looking at automating my server-side SPAM filtering. Are there > > >any resources for pulling known SPAM addresses? Free, as in beer? > > > > > > > > > ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
>I was looking at automating my server-side SPAM filtering. Are there >any resources for pulling known SPAM addresses? Free, as in beer? We run an SMTP anti-abuse gateway, and subcribe it to selected RBL servers, do DNS validations, enforce SMTP protocol compliance, regex filters on headers, bodies, attachments. This kills 90% of spam, and a bunch of worms, virii, too without costing anything. A couple of new ones that look promising are spamassassin.taint.org and tmda.sourceforge.net. Another one combines the MAIL FROM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a lookup of the owner of the sending mailserver's ip. If you say [EMAIL PROTECTED] and your mailserver is not an AOL ip, click. Len > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
iMS does have direct support for ORBs-type blackhole lists... Regards, Howie - Original Message - From: "Michael Dinowitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 3:19 PM Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > Other than black hole lists, I don't know of any. I read of a distributed > system being worked up on slashdot a few days back. I was going to suggest > the same thing for iMS users to catalog email addresses, subjects, etc. of > spam to be blocked. > > At 03:15 PM 12/4/01, you wrote: > >I was looking at automating my server-side SPAM filtering. Are there > >any resources for pulling known SPAM addresses? Free, as in beer? > > > > > ~~ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT: SPAM lists?
www.orbz.org Cameron Childress elliptIQ Inc. p.770.460.1035.232 f.770.460.0963 -- http://www.neighborware.com America's Leading Community Network Software > -Original Message- > From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 3:20 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > > > Other than black hole lists, I don't know of any. I read of a distributed > system being worked up on slashdot a few days back. I was going > to suggest > the same thing for iMS users to catalog email addresses, > subjects, etc. of > spam to be blocked. > > At 03:15 PM 12/4/01, you wrote: > >I was looking at automating my server-side SPAM filtering. Are there > >any resources for pulling known SPAM addresses? Free, as in beer? > > > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Yeah, I saw the thing on Slashdot too - I'll probably investigate that. - Original Message - From: "Michael Dinowitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 2:19 PM Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists? > Other than black hole lists, I don't know of any. I read of a distributed > system being worked up on slashdot a few days back. I was going to suggest > the same thing for iMS users to catalog email addresses, subjects, etc. of > spam to be blocked. > > At 03:15 PM 12/4/01, you wrote: > >I was looking at automating my server-side SPAM filtering. Are there > >any resources for pulling known SPAM addresses? Free, as in beer? > > > > > ~~ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Other than black hole lists, I don't know of any. I read of a distributed system being worked up on slashdot a few days back. I was going to suggest the same thing for iMS users to catalog email addresses, subjects, etc. of spam to be blocked. At 03:15 PM 12/4/01, you wrote: >I was looking at automating my server-side SPAM filtering. Are there >any resources for pulling known SPAM addresses? Free, as in beer? > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
