Re: [Jchat] J, APL, or calendars?

[Jose Mario Quintana]

Björn Helgason wrote:

> https://marymagdalenefrancetours.com/did-jesus-live-in-france/

Right, this is the stuff of legend; some related items follow (you might,
or might not, find the last item interesting):

The appearance of Jesus in the Americas is presumably believed by
approximately 16M people,

  Book of Mormon
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Mormon#Jesus

There are "tantalizing" similarities between Quetzalcoatl and Jesus (at
least from this point of view),

  Quetzalcoatl, the Maya Maize God, and Jesus Christ
  https://publications.mi.byu.edu/fullscreen/?pub=1406=3

Quetzalcoatl might have been Björn Breiðvíkingakappi,

  Þórunn Valdimarsdóttir
  https://thorvald.is/?page_id=392

:)


On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 2:23 AM, Björn Helgason  wrote:

> https://marymagdalenefrancetours.com/did-jesus-live-in-france/
>
> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 04:00 PR PackRat,  wrote:
>
> > On 6/4/18, Jose Mario Quintana  wrote:
> > > Harvey wrote:
> > >> It's just the way it is.
> >
> > I merely intended to inject some reality.  Despite all of the
> > discussions and arguments pro and con for various perspectives,
> > nothing is going to change current civilization regarding dates and
> > times.  Everybody in these discussions can view it the way they want,
> > accommodate their programming to the realities of the world, and life
> > will go on.
> >
> > > ... Then, it gets even worse due to Greek and
> > > Roman influence: one year of 12 months, numbered from 1 to 12 (when
> > > the months are not explicitly named), and months of different numbers
> of
> > > days, numbered from 1 to the last day,
> >
> > If you want all the gory details, go to pages 987-1003 of volume 4 of
> > the 11th edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica
> > <
> > https://books.google.com/books?id=mP4tIAAJ=
> frontcover=editions:XzxQJyk6QDAC=en=X=
> 0ahUKEwil-YTBqLvbAhUrzoMKHRxCDaAQuwUIRDAF#v=onepage=false
> > >.
> >
> > In brief, the old Roman calendar (as revised by Julius Caesar) started
> > in what is now March.  It had months with the number of days
> > alternating between 31 and 30 (except the last month, February, had
> > 29).  (Another way of looking at it is that the odd-numbered months
> > had the odd number of days, 31, and the even-numbered months had the
> > even number of days, 30, except for the last month, February.)  The
> > months had numbers as their names.  (We still have the names September
> > through December from the original 7th through 10th months.  Using our
> > way of naming them, the 5th and 6th months would have been Quintember
> > and Sextember.)  After Julius Caesar's death, Quintember's name was
> > changed to July to honor him.  Later, Augustus Caesar had such a high
> > estimation of himself that he renamed Sextember to August and, in
> > order to also have 31 days in that month like Julius Caesar, he
> > "stole" a day from the last month, February, leaving it with only 28
> > days.  However, this created three 31-day months in a row, and so the
> > next several months were adjusted in terms of 31 and 30 days, so that
> > there would be no more than 2 months back-to-back with 31 days.  At
> > this time the equinox occurred on March 25, but, because there was no
> > adjustment for the slight difference between the calendar year (even
> > with leap years) and the true solar year, the equinox had precessed to
> > March 21 by the time of the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD (when the date
> > of Easter was determined).  At some point in history, the year
> > switched to start on January 1 rather than March 25 (which was the
> > original equinox date and the date of the Annunciation, 9 months
> > before Christmas).  However, that was not the case in England, which
> > retained New Year's Day on March 25 and did not drop days at the time
> > of the Gregorian calendar reform.  (One of the purposes of the 10-day
> > reform was to get the equinox back on the date it was at the Council
> > of Nicaea, March 21--by 1582 it was on March 11.)  Finally, in 1750
> > England passed a law that, beginning in 1752, 11 days (an extra day
> > had accumulated by that time) would be dropped from the calendar to
> > synchronize with the rest of Europe and that the civil year would
> > begin on January 1 rather than March 25. This created an interesting
> > situation because anyone who had been born between January 1 and March
> > 24 had not only a change in date but also a change in their birth
> > year.  For example, George Washington was originally born February 11,
> > 1731 (O.S. = Old Style), but, with the calendar reform, that changed
> > to February 22, 1732 (N.S. = New Style)--the date we know nowadays.
> > It took a long period of time for people in both England and the
> > American colonies to become accustomed to this change and to change
> > all the various records and references to dates.
> >
> > > and the number of days of one
> > > particular month depends on awfully complicated rules!
> >
> > Actually, it's rather easy--it 

Re: [Jchat] J, APL, or calendars?

[Jose Mario Quintana]

Harvey wrote:

> Actually, it's rather easy--it all depends on the number 4.  If you're
> dealing with century years (100 years, ending with 00), then it's a
> leap year if the century year is divisible by 400 (100x4); otherwise
> it's not a leap year.  If you're dealing with a non-century year, then
> it's a leap year if it's divisible by 4; otherwise it's not a leap
> year.  (Always do the century test first--then the rule is simple.)
>
> Technically, the Gregorian "fix" very slightly over-corrects the
> calculation, and so some have suggested the following preliminary step
> (neither you nor I will be around when this might become necessary):
> if you're dealing with millenial years (1000 years, ending with 000),
> then if the millennial year is divisible by 4000 (1000x4), it is NOT a
> leap year.  But even that needs correction about every 20,000 years!

From my perspective, the above is awfully complicated vs a decimal notation
of days!

Finding the time elapsed between to dates is simple; for example, the
elapsed time between the day 2458274 (today) and the day 1446496 is

   2458274 - 1446496
1011778

days, that is, about

   1011778 % 365.24218967
2770.15643

tropical years.

Let us do it the other way around; pick two dates with a similar timespan
using the BC/AD world standard.

How many years, months and days have passed between them?  Does the
question even make sense?  Forget about it.  Let us try another one: how
many days have elapsed?  Can you show us how to perform the calculations in
J?


On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 11:59 PM, PR PackRat  wrote:

> On 6/4/18, Jose Mario Quintana  wrote:
> > Harvey wrote:
> >> It's just the way it is.
>
> I merely intended to inject some reality.  Despite all of the
> discussions and arguments pro and con for various perspectives,
> nothing is going to change current civilization regarding dates and
> times.  Everybody in these discussions can view it the way they want,
> accommodate their programming to the realities of the world, and life
> will go on.
>
> > ... Then, it gets even worse due to Greek and
> > Roman influence: one year of 12 months, numbered from 1 to 12 (when
> > the months are not explicitly named), and months of different numbers of
> > days, numbered from 1 to the last day,
>
> If you want all the gory details, go to pages 987-1003 of volume 4 of
> the 11th edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica
>  frontcover=editions:XzxQJyk6QDAC=en=X=
> 0ahUKEwil-YTBqLvbAhUrzoMKHRxCDaAQuwUIRDAF#v=onepage=false>.
>
> In brief, the old Roman calendar (as revised by Julius Caesar) started
> in what is now March.  It had months with the number of days
> alternating between 31 and 30 (except the last month, February, had
> 29).  (Another way of looking at it is that the odd-numbered months
> had the odd number of days, 31, and the even-numbered months had the
> even number of days, 30, except for the last month, February.)  The
> months had numbers as their names.  (We still have the names September
> through December from the original 7th through 10th months.  Using our
> way of naming them, the 5th and 6th months would have been Quintember
> and Sextember.)  After Julius Caesar's death, Quintember's name was
> changed to July to honor him.  Later, Augustus Caesar had such a high
> estimation of himself that he renamed Sextember to August and, in
> order to also have 31 days in that month like Julius Caesar, he
> "stole" a day from the last month, February, leaving it with only 28
> days.  However, this created three 31-day months in a row, and so the
> next several months were adjusted in terms of 31 and 30 days, so that
> there would be no more than 2 months back-to-back with 31 days.  At
> this time the equinox occurred on March 25, but, because there was no
> adjustment for the slight difference between the calendar year (even
> with leap years) and the true solar year, the equinox had precessed to
> March 21 by the time of the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD (when the date
> of Easter was determined).  At some point in history, the year
> switched to start on January 1 rather than March 25 (which was the
> original equinox date and the date of the Annunciation, 9 months
> before Christmas).  However, that was not the case in England, which
> retained New Year's Day on March 25 and did not drop days at the time
> of the Gregorian calendar reform.  (One of the purposes of the 10-day
> reform was to get the equinox back on the date it was at the Council
> of Nicaea, March 21--by 1582 it was on March 11.)  Finally, in 1750
> England passed a law that, beginning in 1752, 11 days (an extra day
> had accumulated by that time) would be dropped from the calendar to
> synchronize with the rest of Europe and that the civil year would
> begin on January 1 rather than March 25. This created an interesting
> situation because anyone who had been born between January 1 and March
> 24 had not only a change in date but also a 

Re: [Jchat] GitHub -- is this good news or bad?

[chris burke]

I don't think this is a concern for those with public github repos (like
ourselves). Our private git repos are self-hosted, not on github.

The real concern would be for those with private github repos, which may
now become readable by Microsoft. Whatever assurances are given, I think it
likely that some private repos will be moved elsewhere. This will reduce
their revenue, since github only charges for private repos.


On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 6:41 PM, Ian Clark  wrote:

> QUOTE: Microsoft used to run a rival service called Codeplex, but shut it
> down last year saying that Github had become the "de facto place for open
> source sharing".
>
> It makes sense for a big company to buy shares in a service supplier they
> want to provide financial support for. But buying a controlling interest is
> about control, not support.
>
> Microsoft buys Github code-sharing site for $7.5bn
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44351214
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] J, APL, or calendars?

[Björn Helgason]

some people say half seven meaning 18:30 while others mean 19:30.

lot of different meanings and sign language is also very different in
different parts of the world.
On 5 Jun 2018 12:46, "'Bo Jacoby' via Chat"  wrote:

> The proposed calender addresses points in time rather than intervals of
> time. It does'n address "the twentyfirst century". Before the advent of
> clocks the hours were addressed by ordinal numbers, like "the eleventh
> hour", but a clock shows the cardinal number of hours and minutes elapsed
> since midnight or midday. Thus the second hour starts just after one
> o'clock and ends at two o'clock.
>
> Den 8:23 tirsdag den 5. juni 2018 skrev Björn Helgason <
> gos...@gmail.com>:
>
>
>  https://marymagdalenefrancetours.com/did-jesus-live-in-france/
>
> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 04:00 PR PackRat,  wrote:
>
> > On 6/4/18, Jose Mario Quintana  wrote:
> > > Harvey wrote:
> > >> It's just the way it is.
> >
> > I merely intended to inject some reality.  Despite all of the
> > discussions and arguments pro and con for various perspectives,
> > nothing is going to change current civilization regarding dates and
> > times.  Everybody in these discussions can view it the way they want,
> > accommodate their programming to the realities of the world, and life
> > will go on.
> >
> > > ... Then, it gets even worse due to Greek and
> > > Roman influence: one year of 12 months, numbered from 1 to 12 (when
> > > the months are not explicitly named), and months of different numbers
> of
> > > days, numbered from 1 to the last day,
> >
> > If you want all the gory details, go to pages 987-1003 of volume 4 of
> > the 11th edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica
> > <
> > https://books.google.com/books?id=mP4tIAAJ=frontcover=
> editions:XzxQJyk6QDAC=en=X=0ahUKEwil-
> YTBqLvbAhUrzoMKHRxCDaAQuwUIRDAF#v=onepage=false
> > >.
> >
> > In brief, the old Roman calendar (as revised by Julius Caesar) started
> > in what is now March.  It had months with the number of days
> > alternating between 31 and 30 (except the last month, February, had
> > 29).  (Another way of looking at it is that the odd-numbered months
> > had the odd number of days, 31, and the even-numbered months had the
> > even number of days, 30, except for the last month, February.)  The
> > months had numbers as their names.  (We still have the names September
> > through December from the original 7th through 10th months.  Using our
> > way of naming them, the 5th and 6th months would have been Quintember
> > and Sextember.)  After Julius Caesar's death, Quintember's name was
> > changed to July to honor him.  Later, Augustus Caesar had such a high
> > estimation of himself that he renamed Sextember to August and, in
> > order to also have 31 days in that month like Julius Caesar, he
> > "stole" a day from the last month, February, leaving it with only 28
> > days.  However, this created three 31-day months in a row, and so the
> > next several months were adjusted in terms of 31 and 30 days, so that
> > there would be no more than 2 months back-to-back with 31 days.  At
> > this time the equinox occurred on March 25, but, because there was no
> > adjustment for the slight difference between the calendar year (even
> > with leap years) and the true solar year, the equinox had precessed to
> > March 21 by the time of the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD (when the date
> > of Easter was determined).  At some point in history, the year
> > switched to start on January 1 rather than March 25 (which was the
> > original equinox date and the date of the Annunciation, 9 months
> > before Christmas).  However, that was not the case in England, which
> > retained New Year's Day on March 25 and did not drop days at the time
> > of the Gregorian calendar reform.  (One of the purposes of the 10-day
> > reform was to get the equinox back on the date it was at the Council
> > of Nicaea, March 21--by 1582 it was on March 11.)  Finally, in 1750
> > England passed a law that, beginning in 1752, 11 days (an extra day
> > had accumulated by that time) would be dropped from the calendar to
> > synchronize with the rest of Europe and that the civil year would
> > begin on January 1 rather than March 25. This created an interesting
> > situation because anyone who had been born between January 1 and March
> > 24 had not only a change in date but also a change in their birth
> > year.  For example, George Washington was originally born February 11,
> > 1731 (O.S. = Old Style), but, with the calendar reform, that changed
> > to February 22, 1732 (N.S. = New Style)--the date we know nowadays.
> > It took a long period of time for people in both England and the
> > American colonies to become accustomed to this change and to change
> > all the various records and references to dates.
> >
> > > and the number of days of one
> > > particular month depends on awfully complicated rules!
> >
> > Actually, it's rather easy--it all depends on the number 4.  If you're
> > dealing with 

Re: [Jchat] J, APL, or calendars?

['Bo Jacoby' via Chat]

The proposed calender addresses points in time rather than intervals of time. 
It does'n address "the twentyfirst century". Before the advent of clocks the 
hours were addressed by ordinal numbers, like "the eleventh hour", but a clock 
shows the cardinal number of hours and minutes elapsed since midnight or 
midday. Thus the second hour starts just after one o'clock and ends at two 
o'clock.  

Den 8:23 tirsdag den 5. juni 2018 skrev Björn Helgason :
 

 https://marymagdalenefrancetours.com/did-jesus-live-in-france/

On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 04:00 PR PackRat,  wrote:

> On 6/4/18, Jose Mario Quintana  wrote:
> > Harvey wrote:
> >> It's just the way it is.
>
> I merely intended to inject some reality.  Despite all of the
> discussions and arguments pro and con for various perspectives,
> nothing is going to change current civilization regarding dates and
> times.  Everybody in these discussions can view it the way they want,
> accommodate their programming to the realities of the world, and life
> will go on.
>
> > ... Then, it gets even worse due to Greek and
> > Roman influence: one year of 12 months, numbered from 1 to 12 (when
> > the months are not explicitly named), and months of different numbers of
> > days, numbered from 1 to the last day,
>
> If you want all the gory details, go to pages 987-1003 of volume 4 of
> the 11th edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica
> <
> https://books.google.com/books?id=mP4tIAAJ=frontcover=editions:XzxQJyk6QDAC=en=X=0ahUKEwil-YTBqLvbAhUrzoMKHRxCDaAQuwUIRDAF#v=onepage=false
> >.
>
> In brief, the old Roman calendar (as revised by Julius Caesar) started
> in what is now March.  It had months with the number of days
> alternating between 31 and 30 (except the last month, February, had
> 29).  (Another way of looking at it is that the odd-numbered months
> had the odd number of days, 31, and the even-numbered months had the
> even number of days, 30, except for the last month, February.)  The
> months had numbers as their names.  (We still have the names September
> through December from the original 7th through 10th months.  Using our
> way of naming them, the 5th and 6th months would have been Quintember
> and Sextember.)  After Julius Caesar's death, Quintember's name was
> changed to July to honor him.  Later, Augustus Caesar had such a high
> estimation of himself that he renamed Sextember to August and, in
> order to also have 31 days in that month like Julius Caesar, he
> "stole" a day from the last month, February, leaving it with only 28
> days.  However, this created three 31-day months in a row, and so the
> next several months were adjusted in terms of 31 and 30 days, so that
> there would be no more than 2 months back-to-back with 31 days.  At
> this time the equinox occurred on March 25, but, because there was no
> adjustment for the slight difference between the calendar year (even
> with leap years) and the true solar year, the equinox had precessed to
> March 21 by the time of the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD (when the date
> of Easter was determined).  At some point in history, the year
> switched to start on January 1 rather than March 25 (which was the
> original equinox date and the date of the Annunciation, 9 months
> before Christmas).  However, that was not the case in England, which
> retained New Year's Day on March 25 and did not drop days at the time
> of the Gregorian calendar reform.  (One of the purposes of the 10-day
> reform was to get the equinox back on the date it was at the Council
> of Nicaea, March 21--by 1582 it was on March 11.)  Finally, in 1750
> England passed a law that, beginning in 1752, 11 days (an extra day
> had accumulated by that time) would be dropped from the calendar to
> synchronize with the rest of Europe and that the civil year would
> begin on January 1 rather than March 25. This created an interesting
> situation because anyone who had been born between January 1 and March
> 24 had not only a change in date but also a change in their birth
> year.  For example, George Washington was originally born February 11,
> 1731 (O.S. = Old Style), but, with the calendar reform, that changed
> to February 22, 1732 (N.S. = New Style)--the date we know nowadays.
> It took a long period of time for people in both England and the
> American colonies to become accustomed to this change and to change
> all the various records and references to dates.
>
> > and the number of days of one
> > particular month depends on awfully complicated rules!
>
> Actually, it's rather easy--it all depends on the number 4.  If you're
> dealing with century years (100 years, ending with 00), then it's a
> leap year if the century year is divisible by 400 (100x4); otherwise
> it's not a leap year.  If you're dealing with a non-century year, then
> it's a leap year if it's divisible by 4; otherwise it's not a leap
> year.  (Always do the century test first--then the rule is simple.)
>
> Technically, the Gregorian "fix" very slightly 

Re: [Jchat] J, APL, or calendars?

[Björn Helgason]

https://marymagdalenefrancetours.com/did-jesus-live-in-france/

On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 04:00 PR PackRat,  wrote:

> On 6/4/18, Jose Mario Quintana  wrote:
> > Harvey wrote:
> >> It's just the way it is.
>
> I merely intended to inject some reality.  Despite all of the
> discussions and arguments pro and con for various perspectives,
> nothing is going to change current civilization regarding dates and
> times.  Everybody in these discussions can view it the way they want,
> accommodate their programming to the realities of the world, and life
> will go on.
>
> > ... Then, it gets even worse due to Greek and
> > Roman influence: one year of 12 months, numbered from 1 to 12 (when
> > the months are not explicitly named), and months of different numbers of
> > days, numbered from 1 to the last day,
>
> If you want all the gory details, go to pages 987-1003 of volume 4 of
> the 11th edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica
> <
> https://books.google.com/books?id=mP4tIAAJ=frontcover=editions:XzxQJyk6QDAC=en=X=0ahUKEwil-YTBqLvbAhUrzoMKHRxCDaAQuwUIRDAF#v=onepage=false
> >.
>
> In brief, the old Roman calendar (as revised by Julius Caesar) started
> in what is now March.  It had months with the number of days
> alternating between 31 and 30 (except the last month, February, had
> 29).  (Another way of looking at it is that the odd-numbered months
> had the odd number of days, 31, and the even-numbered months had the
> even number of days, 30, except for the last month, February.)  The
> months had numbers as their names.  (We still have the names September
> through December from the original 7th through 10th months.  Using our
> way of naming them, the 5th and 6th months would have been Quintember
> and Sextember.)  After Julius Caesar's death, Quintember's name was
> changed to July to honor him.  Later, Augustus Caesar had such a high
> estimation of himself that he renamed Sextember to August and, in
> order to also have 31 days in that month like Julius Caesar, he
> "stole" a day from the last month, February, leaving it with only 28
> days.  However, this created three 31-day months in a row, and so the
> next several months were adjusted in terms of 31 and 30 days, so that
> there would be no more than 2 months back-to-back with 31 days.  At
> this time the equinox occurred on March 25, but, because there was no
> adjustment for the slight difference between the calendar year (even
> with leap years) and the true solar year, the equinox had precessed to
> March 21 by the time of the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD (when the date
> of Easter was determined).  At some point in history, the year
> switched to start on January 1 rather than March 25 (which was the
> original equinox date and the date of the Annunciation, 9 months
> before Christmas).  However, that was not the case in England, which
> retained New Year's Day on March 25 and did not drop days at the time
> of the Gregorian calendar reform.  (One of the purposes of the 10-day
> reform was to get the equinox back on the date it was at the Council
> of Nicaea, March 21--by 1582 it was on March 11.)  Finally, in 1750
> England passed a law that, beginning in 1752, 11 days (an extra day
> had accumulated by that time) would be dropped from the calendar to
> synchronize with the rest of Europe and that the civil year would
> begin on January 1 rather than March 25. This created an interesting
> situation because anyone who had been born between January 1 and March
> 24 had not only a change in date but also a change in their birth
> year.  For example, George Washington was originally born February 11,
> 1731 (O.S. = Old Style), but, with the calendar reform, that changed
> to February 22, 1732 (N.S. = New Style)--the date we know nowadays.
> It took a long period of time for people in both England and the
> American colonies to become accustomed to this change and to change
> all the various records and references to dates.
>
> > and the number of days of one
> > particular month depends on awfully complicated rules!
>
> Actually, it's rather easy--it all depends on the number 4.  If you're
> dealing with century years (100 years, ending with 00), then it's a
> leap year if the century year is divisible by 400 (100x4); otherwise
> it's not a leap year.  If you're dealing with a non-century year, then
> it's a leap year if it's divisible by 4; otherwise it's not a leap
> year.  (Always do the century test first--then the rule is simple.)
>
> Technically, the Gregorian "fix" very slightly over-corrects the
> calculation, and so some have suggested the following preliminary step
> (neither you nor I will be around when this might become necessary):
> if you're dealing with millenial years (1000 years, ending with 000),
> then if the millennial year is divisible by 4000 (1000x4), it is NOT a
> leap year.  But even that needs correction about every 20,000 years!
>
> I won't be here, but with all this talk about time, I think it will be
> very interesting to