[c-nsp] Fwd: Cisco 7206VXR (NPE-G2) SRD4
Yes i grub 'show tech' information, but i found nothing on it The listing of our configuration iBGP from which we have a problem router bgp id bgp router-id router-id no bgp fast-external-fallover bgp always-compare-med bgp log-neighbor-changes neighbor 2.2.2.2 remote-as as-id neighbor 2.2.2.2 password 7 x neighbor 2.2.2.2 update-source Loopback0 address-family ipv4 redistribute static route-map BGP-Redistribute neighbor 2.2.2.2 activate neighbor 2.2.2.2 send-community neighbor 2.2.2.2 route-map BGP-In in address-family vpnv4 neighbor 2.2.2.2 activate neighbor 2.2.2.2 send-community both But we have same configuration with other router, although the session not got down with it After rollback all sessions coming up 2010/5/25 Mark Wheadon m...@currybeast.co.uk On 25/05/2010 16:51, Anrey Teslenko wrote: Unknown path error Do you have a copy of the BGP configuration (removing the actual IP's) ? I have upgraded several devices to SRD4 and I am pretty happy with this software release. I am using IBGP/EBGP without any problems although I had yet to upgrade a NPE-G2 to SRD4. Did you grab any debug outputs at the time ? ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/ ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
[c-nsp] Fwd: Cisco 7206VXR (NPE-G2) SRD4
Remote neighbor logged massages Hold timer expired The current neighbor got down every 180 seconds, however 180 seconds (Hold timer) session was up. But no prefixes receive. Session was being restarted cyclically, so i think that logs is consequence of session destruction. Why the session was being restarted cyclically? That is question. Could both loopbacks ping each other ? Yes it is. Was there IP connectivity between the affected IGP neighbours when BGP went down? The IGP is OSPF and all ospf sessions were up FULL/BDR Did you see any L2 problems. What type of interfaces links the neighbors together. There were not any problem with L2. Interfaces is 1000BaseT but channel is Ethernet over SDH. And that importantly second session was up. The session with this neighbor is configured similar. But remote router is Cisco 7200, although problem session with Cisco 7600 2010/5/25 Mark Wheadon m...@currybeast.co.uk Did the neighbour show any log outputs different to what you had sent me ? Was there IP connectivity between the affected IGP neighbours when BGP went down. Could both loopbacks ping each other ?. How are the neighbours connected ? What IGP is in use and did you take a snapshot of the routing table. Did you see any L2 problems. What type of interfaces links the neighbors together ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] Fwd: Cisco 7206VXR (NPE-G2) SRD4
I think your session is being restarted every 180 seconds, because your keepalives aren't going through. It may happen it you have low MTU and high MSS size for BGP packets, your updates can't get to neighbor and they get queued and keepalives are standing behind updates packets You will see it with command sh ip bgp neighbor X.X.X.X in the top something like Keepalives are temporarily in throttle due ... Check mss size sh ip bgp neighbors X.X.X.X | i Data and compare it to mtu on link (plus 40 bytes) Why it was working before? Maybe MSS was lower on old soft? ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
[c-nsp] 3rd Party Twinax cables on Nexus 5000
Hi, I have a client who is wanting to run 10G from their Nexus 5000 to a server. The design has specified HP 10G card on the servers, which come with SFP+ HP 7M Twinax cables. Obviously these are not listed on the Nexus 5k data sheet, but does anyone know if they will work? Are they just re branded Cisco ones, or are the Cisco ones re branded generic cables? Thanks in advance! Andy ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] 3rd Party Twinax cables on Nexus 5000
We used them in one project. Seem to work. Aivars Hi, I have a client who is wanting to run 10G from their Nexus 5000 to a server. The design has specified HP 10G card on the servers, which come with SFP+ HP 7M Twinax cables. Obviously these are not listed on the Nexus 5k data sheet, but does anyone know if they will work? Are they just re branded Cisco ones, or are the Cisco ones re branded generic cables? Thanks in advance! Andy ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/ ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
[c-nsp] Link Discovery Error
Hello Friends, In our Topology discovery tool, we are able to discover the Cisco Switches and Routers. When it comes of discovering the links we are using the BRIDGE_MIB/IF_MIB/MIB-II... this way we are able to discover the links between the Cisco Switches (series Catalyst 2950) But when we introduce the Cisco Routers (2509 series) in the network and run the discovery it doesnt show the links between the Router-Switch as well as Router-Router, The problem with the Link discover is that their is no value in the dot1dTpFdbPort(1.3.6.1.2.1.17.4.3.1.2.) OID in Cisco Router. This OID is responsible for creating/finding Neighbours in code. Thanks Regards Jaikar Gupta ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] Multihomed network - iBGP questions
Dears, We will go with route reflectors. The two routers A and B will be RR. Some questions: - Could we still use peers group with RR? - Is it needed to create a cluster for router A and B? The issue is that A will not accept routes advertised by B because it's the same cluster. We would like to choose the best routes to Internet (we will have two different providers) Do I have to create two different clusters? Thanks. Thierry -Original Message- From: Mark Tinka [mailto:mti...@globaltransit.net] Sent: vendredi 21 mai 2010 5:26 To: cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net Cc: Thierry Subject: Re: [c-nsp] Multihomed network - iBGP questions On Thursday 20 May 2010 05:42:36 pm Thierry wrote: As internal routing protocols, I would like to use iBGP for all customers' routes and OSPF for all backbone routes (loopbacks and PtP between the routers). Good. I would like to have the full internet table only on the two routers connected to the providers (A and B). All the others (C to J) will only have the internal routes + a default route coming from the two border routers (A and B) using OSPF. Okay. Have you also considered the possibility of originating default via iBGP? I would like also that all outgoing traffic goes to the same router (for example A) and this router will choose to send the traffic to the provider connected to himself or to send the traffic to router B (in case it has a better route), which will send to his provider. You can do this through BGP policy on the iBGP sessions between your border and edge routers. I would like also that the network is scalable, for example if we have in the future a new customer connected to the router F and would like a full internet table. In this case, we must advertise the full table to router F, which can advertise to the customer. If you anticipate that this is where you're headed, why not do this from Day One? Gives you more experience too, in case you get customers asking for it. If your edge routers can take a full table, why not? If they can't, then that's another story :-). My idea was: - OSPF for backbone routes. Yes. - iBGP for customer routes. Yes. - eBGP with the providers. Of course. - iBGP between A and B with no restrictions. Consider running these as route reflectors for the rest of your iBGP speakers. Of course, BGP policy configuration can start to get complicated since they're also handling upstream peering. But it's not impossible. Alternatively, if you can consider different boxes as route reflectors in the network, that's another option. - Full mesh iBGP between all the routers (except between router A and B) with a filter-list applied out - ip as-path seq 1 permit ^$ this should only advertise prefixes originated inside the AS and where a network statement is configured into BGP. As mentioned, since scaling is on your mind, consider route reflectors. - Default originate on router A and B inside OSFP configuration with a different metric. Ex: A= default-information originate metric 1 metric-type 1 and B= default-information originate metric 100 metric-type 1. Originating default in iBGP should also work. Either way, you should be fine. - For the example explained above, we change on router A and B the configuration with router F - move to the iBGP with no restrictions. Again, consider doing this from Day One if you don't have any hardware restrictions. Hope this helps. Cheers, Mark. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
[c-nsp] 6509 MPLS Odd TDP issue
All, I am configuring an MPLS peer between devices. I am forcing the 6509 globally to use LDP as the protocol and also now have forced the interface mpls label protocol ldp mpls ip the same. yet when the LDP neighbor session come UP i get a this in logs: TAGCON-3-TDPID TDP Id/Addr mapping problem (rcvd TDP address PIE, bind failed) Now the bind failed is not a big deal as i have the same address on another box which is already bound to another mpls link. I can do away with that, but why is it stating TDP when i am using LDP? Regards, -- //CL ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] 6509 MPLS Odd TDP issue
Two words: logging anachronisms. It should be otherwise fine. Verify neighs are speaking/exchanging ldp helos with sh mpls ldp disc and sh mpls ldp nei -Tk -Original Message- From: Chris Lane clane1...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 09:21:09 To: cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net Subject: [c-nsp] 6509 MPLS Odd TDP issue All, I am configuring an MPLS peer between devices. I am forcing the 6509 globally to use LDP as the protocol and also now have forced the interface mpls label protocol ldp mpls ip the same. yet when the LDP neighbor session come UP i get a this in logs: TAGCON-3-TDPID TDP Id/Addr mapping problem (rcvd TDP address PIE, bind failed) Now the bind failed is not a big deal as i have the same address on another box which is already bound to another mpls link. I can do away with that, but why is it stating TDP when i am using LDP? Regards, -- //CL ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/ ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] 6509 MPLS Odd TDP issue
On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 10:21 AM, tkap...@gmail.com wrote: Two words: logging anachronisms. It should be otherwise fine. Verify neighs are speaking/exchanging ldp helos with sh mpls ldp disc and sh mpls ldp nei -Tk We see the same thing. It's cosmetic. Someone at Cisco needs to run: sed --in-place 's/TDP/LDP/g' ios-nightmare.c :-) -- Tim: ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] 3rd Party Twinax cables on Nexus 5000
On Wed, 26 May 2010 11:50:30 +0100, you wrote: Obviously these are not listed on the Nexus 5k data sheet, but does anyone know if they will work? Are they just re branded Cisco ones, or are the Cisco ones re branded generic cables? The supported ones (incl. 3rd party) are listed here: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/switches/ps9441/ps10110/data_sheet_c78-568589.html -A ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
[c-nsp] SNMP v3
Dears i have Cisco 1842 router i have configure it with the below commands snmp-server group GROUP v3 auth snmp-server user USER GROUP v3 auth sha PASSWORD priv des PASSWORD1 and all worked fine now on Cisco ME3750 switches , i cannot complete the second command as below snmp-server user USER GROUP v3 auth sha PASSWORD no priv as the above situation and it gives SNMP error any ideas ? _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
[c-nsp] How to Remove E-mail
How to remove my e-mail from this list? Thanks, Thiago ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] How to Remove E-mail
On 5/26/10 8:08 AM, Thiago - Renatec wrote: How to remove my e-mail from this list? Thanks, Thiago ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp Click ^^^this^^^ link (directly above), follow the clues. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - j...@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
[c-nsp] Cisco Security Advisory: Multiple Vulnerabilities in Cisco Network Building Mediator
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Cisco Security Advisory: Multiple Vulnerabilities in Cisco Network Building Mediator Document ID: 111014 Advisory ID: cisco-sa-20100526-mediator http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/707/cisco-sa-20100526-mediator.shtml Revision 1.0 For Public Release 2010 May 26 1600 UTC (GMT) - - Summary === Multiple vulnerabilities exist in the Cisco Network Building Mediator (NBM) products. These vulnerabilities also affect the legacy Richards-Zeta Mediator products. This security advisory outlines details of the following vulnerabilities: * Default credentials * Privilege escalation * Unauthorized information interception * Unauthorized information access Cisco has released free software updates that address these vulnerabilities. Workarounds that mitigate some of the listed vulnerabilities are available. This advisory is posted at http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/707/cisco-sa-20100526-mediator.shtml Affected Products = These vulnerabilities affect the legacy Richards-Zeta Mediator 2500 product and Cisco Network Building Mediator NBM-2400 and NBM-4800 models. All Mediator Framework software releases prior to 3.1.1 are affected by all vulnerabilities listed in this security advisory. This table provides information about affected software releases: +---+ | Cisco Bug |Affects Software | | ID |Releases | |-+-| | CSCtb83495 | 1.5.1, 2.2, 3.0.8 | |-+-| | CSCtb83607 | 2.2, 3.0.8 | |-+-| | CSCtb83618 | 1.5.1, 2.2, 3.0.8 | |-+-| | CSCtb83631 | 1.5.1, 2.2, 3.0.8 | |-+-| | CSCtb83505 | 1.5.1, 2.2, 3.0.8 | |-+-| | CSCtb83512 | 1.5.1, 2.2, 3.0.8 | +---+ Vulnerable Products +-- Users can determine the version of the Mediator Framework running on a device by logging into the device. After a successful login, the device will display the version of Mediator Framework running on the device. The following example identifies a Cisco Network Building Mediator that is running Mediator Framework version 3.1.1: Mediator Operating Environment 3.0.4 Mediator Framework (tm) 3.1.1 Copyright ) 2010 Cisco Systems, Inc. Serial number 05-x Products Confirmed Not Vulnerable + No other Cisco products are currently known to be affected by these vulnerabilities. Details === The Cisco Network Building Mediator is a platform that transforms the way buildings are designed, operated, and experienced. Cisco Network Building Mediator collects data from sources that include the building, IT, energy supply, and energy demand systems, which use different protocols that are otherwise unable to communicate with one another. The Cisco Network Building Mediator normalizes the data into a common data representation. This ability enables the Cisco Network Building Mediator to perform any-to-any protocol translation and to provide information to the end user in a uniform presentation. This security advisory describes multiple distinct vulnerabilities in the legacy Richards-Zeta Mediator and the Cisco Network Building Mediator. These vulnerabilities are independent of each other. Default credentials +-- Default credentials are assigned for several predefined user accounts on the device including the administrative user account. Any user with network access to the device can log in as an administrator and take complete control over the vulnerable device. * CSCtb83495 ( registered customers only) has been assigned the CVE identifier CVE-2010-0595. Privilege escalation +--- Vulnerabilities in this category enable unauthorized users to read and modify device configuration. A malicious user must authenticate as an existing user but does not need to have administrator privileges or know administrator credentials to modify device configuration. Both vulnerabilities can be exploited over either transport protocol (HTTP or HTTPS). Additionally, the vulnerability described by Cisco Bug ID CSCtb83618 ( registered customers only) can be used to reload the vulnerable device. Repeated exploitation of this vulnerability can lead to a prolonged denial of service (DoS) condition. * CSCtb83607 ( registered customers only) (registered customers only) has been assigned the CVE identifier CVE-2010-0596. This vulnerability could enable any user to read and modify device configuration. * CSCtb83618 ( registered customers only) has been assigned the CVE identifier CVE-2010-0597. This vulnerability could enable any user
[c-nsp] 3rd-party unofficial SFP support in 3560X/3750X switches
Does anyone happen to know if the 'service unsupported-transceiver' command still works in the new 3560X/3750X series switches? I have a need for super long-range single strand SFPs and would rather use switches over media converters if I can help it. Thanks Justin ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
[c-nsp] 3rd party nexus cables
I have tested TYCO cables as well. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
[c-nsp] BGP ipv6 peers with ipv4 router-ids
Hi Is it generally done to exchange ipv6 info with bgp peers defined only by ipv4 router ids? Ie: Router bgp 65001 Neighbor 1.2.3.4 remote-as 65001 ! Address-family ipv6 Neighbor 1.2.3.4 activate ! New gig, no CLI yet :) Thanks Christian ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
[c-nsp] WTB - Need (2) C3750-48ts-s
Folks, I thought I would check with you all to see if any of you have two (2) USED WS-C3750-48TS-S switches that you would be willing to sell. I would rather buy from a person that knows of the gear and not just have it bounced around on the grey markets... Please email me off the list. Thank you, -graham ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
[c-nsp] 3rd party X2
I know there have been a lot of similar questions recently regarding this topic but has anyone had good/bad experience with ACP - Memory Upgrades X2 - 1 x 10Gbase-SR in a 6708 blade? It is suppose to be a compatible 10GB SR X2 Transceiver. The manufacturer is ACP-EP at www.acp-ep.comhttp://www.acp-ep.com. Thanks in advance. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] Link Discovery Error
On 26/05/2010, at 10:30 PM, jaikar gupta wrote: But when we introduce the Cisco Routers (2509 series) in the network and run the discovery it doesnt show the links between the Router-Switch as well as Router-Router, The problem with the Link discover is that their is no value in the dot1dTpFdbPort(1.3.6.1.2.1.17.4.3.1.2.) OID in Cisco Router. This OID is responsible for creating/finding Neighbours in code. BRIDGE-MIB is used on Bridges, i.e. switches. a Cisco c2509 router is not a bridge, its a router with L3 interfaces. cheers, lincoln. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] BGP ipv6 peers with ipv4 router-ids
On 2010.05.26 15:50, Christian MacNevin wrote: Hi Is it generally done to exchange ipv6 info with bgp peers defined only by ipv4 router ids? Ie: Router bgp 65001 Neighbor 1.2.3.4 remote-as 65001 ! Address-family ipv6 Neighbor 1.2.3.4 activate If I understand your question correctly, you will likely want to review the following recent NANOG thread: http://seclists.org/nanog/2010/May/475 Personally, in some places, I have v4 and v6 NLRI coming over v4, and in others, v6. In other places, I only allow v6 over v6 and v4 over v4. My thinking is, is that so long as you have adequate documentation to quickly facilitate lookups for troubleshooting, do what makes sense to you. Otherwise, use v4 for v4, and v6 for v6. fwiw, router-id is mostly irrelevant here if I understand what you are asking correctly. Ignore the fact that the router-id seems the same as an IPv4 address. Use it only as influence on decisions; know that it is irrelevant when mating with a neighbour if accepting ip6 NLRI. For what you want to do, the router-id is a simple integer ;) Steve ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] Link Discovery Error
Thanks Lincoln , * * *But i would like to know from where i can find those (e.g MAC Address.) means from which OID.* * *Thanks Regards Jaikar Gupta On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 6:55 AM, Lincoln Dale l...@cisco.com wrote: On 26/05/2010, at 10:30 PM, jaikar gupta wrote: But when we introduce the Cisco Routers (2509 series) in the network and run the discovery it doesnt show the links between the Router-Switch as well as Router-Router, The problem with the Link discover is that their is no value in the dot1dTpFdbPort(1.3.6.1.2.1.17.4.3.1.2.) OID in Cisco Router. This OID is responsible for creating/finding Neighbours in code. BRIDGE-MIB is used on Bridges, i.e. switches. a Cisco c2509 router is not a bridge, its a router with L3 interfaces. cheers, lincoln. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] Link Discovery Error
routers typically expose that via RFC1213-MIB, specifically ipNetToMediaTable. On 27/05/2010, at 2:03 PM, jaikar gupta wrote: Thanks Lincoln , But i would like to know from where i can find those (e.g MAC Address.) means from which OID. Thanks Regards Jaikar Gupta On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 6:55 AM, Lincoln Dale l...@cisco.com wrote: On 26/05/2010, at 10:30 PM, jaikar gupta wrote: But when we introduce the Cisco Routers (2509 series) in the network and run the discovery it doesnt show the links between the Router-Switch as well as Router-Router, The problem with the Link discover is that their is no value in the dot1dTpFdbPort(1.3.6.1.2.1.17.4.3.1.2.) OID in Cisco Router. This OID is responsible for creating/finding Neighbours in code. BRIDGE-MIB is used on Bridges, i.e. switches. a Cisco c2509 router is not a bridge, its a router with L3 interfaces. cheers, lincoln. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
