Re: Stus-List V Berth Holding Tank

[Jake Brodersen via CnC-List]

Colin,

 

Nauta makes some good flexible tanks.  I’ve had one in my 35-3 for over 15 
years and no problems or smells.

 

Jake

 

Jake Brodersen

C&C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress”

Hampton VA

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Collin 
Ferguson via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 19:49
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Collin Ferguson 
Subject: Stus-List V Berth Holding Tank

 

Hello, This is my first posting to this list.  I'm used to forums like on the 
Moyer site, so hopefully I'm doing this right.

 

I have a 1974 C&C 30 MK1.  To my knowledge, it was built without a blackwater 
holding tank for the Head.  At some point over the last 40 years a P.O. put a 5 
gallon Jerry can in a storage compartment in the V Berth and installed a Y 
valve after the macerator.  One side of the Y valve goes overboard the other 
goes to the Jerry can.  

 

I'd like to install a legitimate holding tank and I think the storage 
compartment on the Port side of the V berth is a good spot.

 

Here's my question...

 

The current opening to that storage compartment is very small, just barely fits 
the square 5 gallon jerry can.  Can I make that opening bigger without 
affecting the structural integrity of the boat?  I understand that I'll have to 
make the hatch sturdy so it won't fall through when you sleep in the v berth.  
There is a lot more to do, like install and plumb a pump out deck plate.  But 
the placement of the holding tank, and finding one seems to be the hardest part.

 

Thanks for your help,

 

Collin

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Re: Stus-List V Berth Holding Tank

[RANDY via CnC-List]

Hi Collin, 

Welcome. If you look at the various 30-1 brochures ( 
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/brochures/brochuresndx.htm ), it seems C&C may not 
have installed a holding tank originally, but began doing it somewhere in the 
production run. For example 
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/brochures/30foot/30b2pg02.htm says "Washroom Port 
side ... large locker outboard with double sliding doors for toilet articles. 
Stowage under". And http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/brochures/30foot/30b3pg04.htm 
says "WASHROOM Port side - ... large storage locker with sliding doors" and 
"Interior Equipment and Fittings: Marine toilet with retention device for those 
areas requiring it". But 
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/brochures/30foot/30b1pg02.htm says "TANKAGE: 
Holding: 13 U.S. gallon tank". 

I have hull #7, built September 1972. I just bought it in January. My boat has 
a holding tank in the washroom on the port side outboard, behind those sliding 
doors. The PO advertised "complete new holding tank" as part of work he did in 
2012. I don't know if he installed one in the same place as an old one, or 
what. I believe I have the invoice on the boat, showing what he ordered and 
where he ordered it from. If you're interested in that, I could get it next 
time I'm at the boat and send you a scan of it. 

But I would imagine you could install a holding tank in that location, and only 
have to deal with removing and replacing (and custom fitting) wood paneling and 
trim etc, instead of installing one in the stowage compartment under the port 
side of the V berth and having to enlarge the fiberglass opening there and run 
the plumbing into there, etc. 

Best Regards, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 

- Original Message -

From: "Collin Ferguson via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Collin Ferguson"  
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 5:49:16 PM 
Subject: Stus-List V Berth Holding Tank 

Hello, This is my first posting to this list. I'm used to forums like on the 
Moyer site, so hopefully I'm doing this right. 

I have a 1974 C&C 30 MK1. To my knowledge, it was built without a blackwater 
holding tank for the Head. At some point over the last 40 years a P.O. put a 5 
gallon Jerry can in a storage compartment in the V Berth and installed a Y 
valve after the macerator. One side of the Y valve goes overboard the other 
goes to the Jerry can. 

I'd like to install a legitimate holding tank and I think the storage 
compartment on the Port side of the V berth is a good spot. 

Here's my question... 

The current opening to that storage compartment is very small, just barely fits 
the square 5 gallon jerry can. Can I make that opening bigger without affecting 
the structural integrity of the boat? I understand that I'll have to make the 
hatch sturdy so it won't fall through when you sleep in the v berth. There is a 
lot more to do, like install and plumb a pump out deck plate. But the placement 
of the holding tank, and finding one seems to be the hardest part. 

Thanks for your help, 

Collin 

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Stus-List V Berth Holding Tank

[Collin Ferguson via CnC-List]

Hello, This is my first posting to this list.  I'm used to forums like on the 
Moyer site, so hopefully I'm doing this right.
I have a 1974 C&C 30 MK1.  To my knowledge, it was built without a blackwater 
holding tank for the Head.  At some point over the last 40 years a P.O. put a 5 
gallon Jerry can in a storage compartment in the V Berth and installed a Y 
valve after the macerator.  One side of the Y valve goes overboard the other 
goes to the Jerry can.  
I'd like to install a legitimate holding tank and I think the storage 
compartment on the Port side of the V berth is a good spot.
Here's my question...
The current opening to that storage compartment is very small, just barely fits 
the square 5 gallon jerry can.  Can I make that opening bigger without 
affecting the structural integrity of the boat?  I understand that I'll have to 
make the hatch sturdy so it won't fall through when you sleep in the v berth.  
There is a lot more to do, like install and plumb a pump out deck plate.  But 
the placement of the holding tank, and finding one seems to be the hardest part.
Thanks for your help,
Collin___

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Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[RANDY via CnC-List]

Here are links to A4 winterizing threads on the Moyer Marine forums; I read and 
bookmarked them last night: 
* http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=525 
* http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6886 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Ken via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list" , "Neil Gallagher via CnC-List" 
 
Cc: kwalt...@speakeasy.net 
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 3:24:10 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4 



I have the Moyer FWC cooling system on my A4 which needs no winterization (as 
it and the block are filled with automotive type antifreeze). To winterize the 
seawater side of the FWC, seawater pump and wet exhaust I pull a hose off the 
seawater strainer, put it in a bucket of the pink stuff (non toxic RV/marine 
engine anti-freeze) and run about 3 gallons through until pink starts coming 
out the exhaust pipe. Prestone protects the freshwater side, pink stuff the 
seawater side. I also squirt some MMO in the combustion chambers through the 
spark plug holes to keep the rings/valves free during the winter and to 
dissolve any build up on them from the season. The Moyer site has a couple of 
write ups on winterizing in the forums area. 

Ken 



On Tue, 11 Oct 2016 16:41:30 -0400, Neil Gallagher via CnC-List 
 wrote: 


When I first put fresh water cooling on my A4, I did drain the block and pump 
every year, but then it occurred to me that I was leaving the interior of the 
engine filled with air and moisture, not the best combination. Taking the side 
plate off in my case would be difficult. I now make sure my coolant has 
antifreeze (the automotive type) that protects down to minus whatever, and 
leave the block full. My thinking is that the coolant has a corrosion inhibitor 
in it, probably better for the engine. Am I missing something? 

Neil Gallagher 
Weatherly, 35-1 
Glen Cove 


On 10/11/2016 1:16 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote: 



When I bought Touche' in 1999, it had an AT4. It had the drain plug extension. 
When I finally got it started, the drain plug extension leaked. As I recall, it 
was corroded at the threads at the cap. When I went to replace it, it fell 
apart. I think it's just a 1/8 or 1/4 pipe nipple. Just something to check and 
be aware of. 

Dennis C. 

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Michael Brown via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: 



I have the extension pipe installed between the distributor and the 
alternator belt. There is just a cap on the end that I remove to drain 
the block. It is easy. The two drain plugs on the block are simple to get 
to. The drain plug on the bottom of the water pump is a bit fiddly to 
start back in, mainly just an issue getting into the lazerette enough 
to reach it. I doubt it is a 5 minute job to do all four. 

Is it common to just drain the engine ( block ) and not fill it with 
antifreeze? 

Michael Brown 
Windburn 
C&C 30-1 


From: "phorvati ." < phorv...@gmail.com > 

U have to drain the block. Side inspection plate will leak if you dont 
drain it. Its fragile as it is. It doesnt take too much freezing to 
develop leaks. Block drain plug is under distributor, just aft of side 
inspection plate. It's pita. Moyer sells extention to make this easy. 



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Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I agree draining may not be the best option.  Touche's raw water cooled AT4
had been idle for years (at least 8-10 to my knowledge).

When I pulled the side plates to clean the water chamber area around the
cylinders, I discovered the sealing surface of the block around the side
plates had thinned due to corrosion.  The thinning was from the inside.  My
guess is the block was only partially filled which allowed oxygen to be
present inside the water chamber area.  I had to upsize a few of the side
plate bolts.  Eventually, the thinning caused leakage around the side
plates.  It got bad enough I repowered with a diesel.

Keeping the cooling chamber full may prevent oxygen from causing corrosion.

Dennis C.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 3:41 PM, Neil Gallagher via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> When I first put fresh water cooling on my A4, I did drain the block and
> pump every year, but then it occurred to me that I was leaving the interior
> of the engine filled with air and moisture, not the best combination.
> Taking the side plate off in my case would be difficult.  I now make sure
> my coolant has antifreeze (the automotive type) that protects down to minus
> whatever, and leave the block full.  My thinking is that the coolant has a
> corrosion inhibitor in it, probably better for the engine.  Am I missing
> something?
>
> Neil Gallagher
> Weatherly, 35-1
> Glen Cove
>
>
> On 10/11/2016 1:16 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:
>
> When I bought Touche' in 1999, it had an AT4.  It had the drain plug
> extension.  When I finally got it started, the drain plug extension
> leaked.  As I recall, it was corroded at the threads at the cap.  When I
> went to replace it, it fell apart.  I think it's just a 1/8 or 1/4 pipe
> nipple.  Just something to check and be aware of.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Michael Brown via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>>  I have the extension pipe installed between the distributor and the
>> alternator belt. There is just a cap on the end that I remove to drain
>> the block. It is easy. The two drain plugs on the block are simple to get
>> to. The drain plug on the bottom of the water pump is a bit fiddly to
>> start back in, mainly just an issue getting into the lazerette enough
>> to reach it. I doubt it is a 5 minute job to do all four.
>>
>> Is it common to just drain the engine ( block ) and not fill it with
>> antifreeze?
>>
>> Michael Brown
>> Windburn
>> C&C 30-1
>>
>> From: "phorvati ." 
>>
>> U have to drain the block.  Side inspection plate will leak if you dont
>> drain it.  Its fragile as it is.  It doesnt take too much freezing to
>> develop leaks.  Block drain plug is under distributor, just aft of side
>> inspection plate.  It's pita. Moyer sells extention to make this easy.
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
>> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Ken via CnC-List]

I have the Moyer FWC cooling system on my A4 which needs no
winterization (as it and the block are filled with automotive type
antifreeze). To winterize the seawater side of the FWC, seawater pump
and wet exhaust  I pull a hose off the seawater strainer, put it in a
bucket of the pink stuff (non toxic RV/marine engine anti-freeze) and
run about 3 gallons through until pink starts coming out the exhaust
pipe. Prestone protects the freshwater side, pink stuff the seawater
side. I also squirt  some MMO in the combustion chambers through the
spark plug holes to keep the rings/valves free during the winter and
to dissolve any build up on them from the season. The Moyer site has
a couple of write ups on winterizing in the forums area.
Ken

On Tue, 11 Oct 2016 16:41:30 -0400, Neil Gallagher via CnC-List  wrote:

   When I first put fresh water cooling on my A4, I did drain the
block and pump every year, but then it occurred to me that I was
leaving the interior of the engine filled with air and moisture, not
the best combination.  Taking the side plate off in my case would be
difficult.  I now make sure my coolant has antifreeze (the automotive
type) that protects down to minus whatever, and leave the block full. 
My thinking is that the coolant has a corrosion inhibitor in it,
probably better for the engine.  Am I missing something?

Neil Gallagher
Weatherly, 35-1
Glen Cove

 
On 10/11/2016 1:16 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:

  When I bought Touche' in 1999, it had an AT4.  It had the drain
plug extension.  When I finally got it started, the drain plug
extension leaked.  As I recall, it was corroded at the threads at the
cap.  When I went to replace it, it fell apart.  I think it's just a
1/8 or 1/4 pipe nipple.  Just something to check and be aware of.

Dennis C.
On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Michael Brown via CnC-List  wrote:

   I have the extension pipe installed between the distributor and the
alternator belt. There is just a cap on the end that I remove to drain
the block. It is easy. The two drain plugs on the block are simple to get
to. The drain plug on the bottom of the water pump is a bit fiddly to
start back in, mainly just an issue getting into the lazerette enough
to reach it. I doubt it is a 5 minute job to do all four.

Is it common to just drain the engine ( block ) and not fill it with
antifreeze?

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1

  From: "phorvati ."

U have to drain the block.  Side inspection plate will leak if you dont
drain it.  Its fragile as it is.  It doesnt take too much freezing to
develop leaks.  Block drain plug is under distributor, just aft of side
inspection plate.  It's pita. Moyer sells extention to make this easy.

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Contributions are greatly appreciated!

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-

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Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Neil Gallagher via CnC-List]

When I first put fresh water cooling on my A4, I did drain the block and 
pump every year, but then it occurred to me that I was leaving the 
interior of the engine filled with air and moisture, not the best 
combination.  Taking the side plate off in my case would be difficult.  
I now make sure my coolant has antifreeze (the automotive type) that 
protects down to minus whatever, and leave the block full.  My thinking 
is that the coolant has a corrosion inhibitor in it, probably better for 
the engine.  Am I missing something?


Neil Gallagher
Weatherly, 35-1
Glen Cove


On 10/11/2016 1:16 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:
When I bought Touche' in 1999, it had an AT4.  It had the drain plug 
extension.  When I finally got it started, the drain plug extension 
leaked.  As I recall, it was corroded at the threads at the cap.  When 
I went to replace it, it fell apart.  I think it's just a 1/8 or 1/4 
pipe nipple.  Just something to check and be aware of.


Dennis C.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Michael Brown via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


 I have the extension pipe installed between the distributor and the
alternator belt. There is just a cap on the end that I remove to drain
the block. It is easy. The two drain plugs on the block are simple
to get
to. The drain plug on the bottom of the water pump is a bit fiddly to
start back in, mainly just an issue getting into the lazerette enough
to reach it. I doubt it is a 5 minute job to do all four.

Is it common to just drain the engine ( block ) and not fill it
with antifreeze?

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1

From: "phorvati ." mailto:phorv...@gmail.com>>

U have to drain the block.  Side inspection plate will leak if
you dont
drain it.  Its fragile as it is.  It doesnt take too much
freezing to
develop leaks.  Block drain plug is under distributor, just
aft of side
inspection plate.  It's pita. Moyer sells extention to make
this easy.


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If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by
donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!




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This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!


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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

When I bought Touche' in 1999, it had an AT4.  It had the drain plug
extension.  When I finally got it started, the drain plug extension
leaked.  As I recall, it was corroded at the threads at the cap.  When I
went to replace it, it fell apart.  I think it's just a 1/8 or 1/4 pipe
nipple.  Just something to check and be aware of.

Dennis C.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Michael Brown via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>  I have the extension pipe installed between the distributor and the
> alternator belt. There is just a cap on the end that I remove to drain
> the block. It is easy. The two drain plugs on the block are simple to get
> to. The drain plug on the bottom of the water pump is a bit fiddly to
> start back in, mainly just an issue getting into the lazerette enough
> to reach it. I doubt it is a 5 minute job to do all four.
>
> Is it common to just drain the engine ( block ) and not fill it with
> antifreeze?
>
> Michael Brown
> Windburn
> C&C 30-1
>
> From: "phorvati ." 
>
> U have to drain the block.  Side inspection plate will leak if you dont
> drain it.  Its fragile as it is.  It doesnt take too much freezing to
> develop leaks.  Block drain plug is under distributor, just aft of side
> inspection plate.  It's pita. Moyer sells extention to make this easy.
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

 I have the extension pipe installed between the distributor and the
alternator belt. There is just a cap on the end that I remove to drain
the block. It is easy. The two drain plugs on the block are simple to get
to. The drain plug on the bottom of the water pump is a bit fiddly to
start back in, mainly just an issue getting into the lazerette enough
to reach it. I doubt it is a 5 minute job to do all four.

Is it common to just drain the engine ( block ) and not fill it with antifreeze?

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1 

From: "phorvati ."  

U have to drain the block.  Side inspection plate will leak if you dont 
drain it.  Its fragile as it is.  It doesnt take too much freezing to 
develop leaks.  Block drain plug is under distributor, just aft of side 
inspection plate.  It's pita. Moyer sells extention to make this easy. 
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Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Basically anyway you would get the glycol IN you can jerry rig a way to
attach a shop vac.  Or just use the sea-flush.  I blow out my tap water
lines and A/C lines too.  And my shower pump/deck wash pump.  I've also
rigged up some fittings for my through hulls so that I can easily attach
short section of hose/tygon with a garden hose fitting.  See the picture, I
can suck glycol, attach a shop-vac, flush with fresh water, or ram rod the
through hull if it gets clogged.

http://www.seaflush.com/sea-flush-1/

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Oct 11, 2016 7:25 AM, "Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List" 
wrote:

My first haul-out with a new-to-me 1980 C&C30 with an Atomic 4 as well. I
like the idea of using the shop-vac to blow the water out. Do you connect
that to the same location - at water intake hose disconnected from seacock ?

Kevin




*From: *Josh Muckley 
*Subject: **Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4*
*Date: *October 10, 2016 at 10:27:53 PM EDT
*To: *"C&C List" 


You can plumb in auxiliary suctions that will let you draw glycol straight
out of the jug.  If you haul the boat you can stuff a tygon hose up the
through hull and beer bong the glycol into the engine.  Or you can try the
seaflush.  I have one and it works, though it might be a bit over priced.
I like using the shop vac to blow the water out.  That may actually be
sufficient.   I am cautious though and carefully consider the possibility
of stagnant loops of water.  So, despite "blowing out"  the engine, I also
run glycol.  The nice thing is that I don't have to worry as much about the
water diluting the glycol.  It takes way less glycol to provide freeze
protection.

http://www.seaflush.com/sea-flush-1/

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Oct 10, 2016 9:50 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List"  wrote:

> My first haul-out with my 30-1 (purchased in January) is coming up in a
> few weeks, sadly. The PO advised me to just run antifreeze through the
> raw-water cooling system until it comes out the exhaust.  My main question
> is how to get the antifreeze into the raw water intake.  I've seen a gadget
> made from a toilet plunger with a garden hose plumbed into the rubber cone,
> that can be held over the raw water intake with the other end of the hose
> in a bucket of antifreeze.  Any other recommended techniques?  Any other
> general tips on properly winterizing an A4?
>
> Thanks,
> Randy
>
>
>

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Contributions are greatly appreciated!
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Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[phorvati . via CnC-List]

U have to drain the block.  Side inspection plate will leak if you dont
drain it.  Its fragile as it is.  It doesnt take too much freezing to
develop leaks.  Block drain plug is under distributor, just aft of side
inspection plate.  It's pita. Moyer sells extention to make this easy.
On Oct 11, 2016 12:12 PM, "Michael Brown via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> My atomic 4 is raw water cooled, I have drained the engine and water pump
> using the drain plugs and not used any antifreeze. That has worked in
> Toronto
> for the last nine years.
>
> I did experiment with a thin tube and suction pump the first year to see
> how much water
> was left in the block. I doubt it was a rigorous test but there was not
> much.
>
> Michael Brown
> Windburn
> C&C 30-1
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

My atomic 4 is raw water cooled, I have drained the engine and water pump
using the drain plugs and not used any antifreeze. That has worked in Toronto
for the last nine years.

I did experiment with a thin tube and suction pump the first year to see how 
much water
was left in the block. I doubt it was a rigorous test but there was not much.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1
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Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

This is how I do it with my diesel. Always on the hard. I warm up the engine 
first, using fresh water into that bucket.

Marek

From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 11:48
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Della Barba, Joe
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

When my A4 was raw water cooled I did it like so:
The water intake hose goes into a big 5 gallon bucket full of anti-freeze. I 
put a hose on the exhaust that does the same. The engine pumps the anti-freeze 
around and around and when it gets up to temp I shut it off and change the oil. 
 This can be done in or out of the water.
Joe
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I



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Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Danny,

Good point. I know the issue quite well (first hand experience; not from hard 
starting, but from actually winterising the engine). I don’t use the shopvac; I 
just run the engine and suck in 5 gal of antifreeze. But if you wanted to push 
the water out of the system, you have to connect after the pump. Probably the 
best would be to drain the muffler first, push the water out and drain it again?

Marek

From: Danny Haughey via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 10:54
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Danny Haughey
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4


Marek,

the worry is back-filling through the exhaust.  if the engine is not running 
there is a very real risk of water going in through the exhaust manifold 
because there is no pressure from the exhaust of the running engine pushing the 
water out.  It is the same issue if you are having trouble starting the engine 
and you let the starter continue to turn everything for an extended time 
without the engine firing.  It is a well documented issue on the Moyer Marine 
forums.  The cooling pump itself is what pumps the water in during difficulty 
starting while turning the starter.

Danny

On 10/11/2016 10:42 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List wrote:
You have to connect the shopvac _after_ the water pump. If your water pump is 
any good it will not allow anything to pass through it (when it Is not 
turning). And if it does, you have to change the impeller.

Marek


From: Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 07:25
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Kevin Deluzio
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

My first haul-out with a new-to-me 1980 C&C30 with an Atomic 4 as well. I like 
the idea of using the shop-vac to blow the water out. Do you connect that to 
the same location - at water intake hose disconnected from seacock ?

Kevin




From: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4
Date: October 10, 2016 at 10:27:53 PM EDT
To: "C&C List" 



You can plumb in auxiliary suctions that will let you draw glycol straight out 
of the jug.  If you haul the boat you can stuff a tygon hose up the through 
hull and beer bong the glycol into the engine.  Or you can try the seaflush.  I 
have one and it works, though it might be a bit over priced.  I like using the 
shop vac to blow the water out.  That may actually be sufficient.   I am 
cautious though and carefully consider the possibility of stagnant loops of 
water.  So, despite "blowing out"  the engine, I also run glycol.  The nice 
thing is that I don't have to worry as much about the water diluting the 
glycol.  It takes way less glycol to provide freeze protection.

http://www.seaflush.com/sea-flush-1/

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD


On Oct 10, 2016 9:50 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List"  wrote:
My first haul-out with my 30-1 (purchased in January) is coming up in a few 
weeks, sadly. The PO advised me to just run antifreeze through the raw-water 
cooling system until it comes out the exhaust.  My main question is how to get 
the antifreeze into the raw water intake.  I've seen a gadget made from a 
toilet plunger with a garden hose plumbed into the rubber cone, that can be 
held over the raw water intake with the other end of the hose in a bucket of 
antifreeze.  Any other recommended techniques?  Any other general tips on 
properly winterizing an A4?

Thanks,
Randy






___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!


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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

When my A4 was raw water cooled I did it like so:
The water intake hose goes into a big 5 gallon bucket full of anti-freeze. I 
put a hose on the exhaust that does the same. The engine pumps the anti-freeze 
around and around and when it gets up to temp I shut it off and change the oil. 
 This can be done in or out of the water.
Joe
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Danny 
Haughey via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 10:50
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Danny Haughey 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4


Marek,

the worry is back-filling through the exhaust.  if the engine is not running 
there is a very real risk of water going in through the exhaust manifold 
because there is no pressure from the exhaust of the running engine pushing the 
water out.  It is the same issue if you are having trouble starting the engine 
and you let the starter continue to turn everything for an extended time 
without the engine firing.  It is a well documented issue on the Moyer Marine 
forums.  The cooling pump itself is what pumps the water in during difficulty 
starting while turning the starter.

Danny

On 10/11/2016 10:42 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List wrote:
You have to connect the shopvac _after_ the water pump. If your water pump is 
any good it will not allow anything to pass through it (when it Is not 
turning). And if it does, you have to change the impeller.

Marek


From: Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 07:25
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Kevin Deluzio
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

My first haul-out with a new-to-me 1980 C&C30 with an Atomic 4 as well. I like 
the idea of using the shop-vac to blow the water out. Do you connect that to 
the same location - at water intake hose disconnected from seacock ?

Kevin





From: Josh Muckley mailto:muckl...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4
Date: October 10, 2016 at 10:27:53 PM EDT
To: "C&C List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>




You can plumb in auxiliary suctions that will let you draw glycol straight out 
of the jug.  If you haul the boat you can stuff a tygon hose up the through 
hull and beer bong the glycol into the engine.  Or you can try the seaflush.  I 
have one and it works, though it might be a bit over priced.  I like using the 
shop vac to blow the water out.  That may actually be sufficient.   I am 
cautious though and carefully consider the possibility of stagnant loops of 
water.  So, despite "blowing out"  the engine, I also run glycol.  The nice 
thing is that I don't have to worry as much about the water diluting the 
glycol.  It takes way less glycol to provide freeze protection.

http://www.seaflush.com/sea-flush-1/

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Oct 10, 2016 9:50 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List" 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
My first haul-out with my 30-1 (purchased in January) is coming up in a few 
weeks, sadly. The PO advised me to just run antifreeze through the raw-water 
cooling system until it comes out the exhaust.  My main question is how to get 
the antifreeze into the raw water intake.  I've seen a gadget made from a 
toilet plunger with a garden hose plumbed into the rubber cone, that can be 
held over the raw water intake with the other end of the hose in a bucket of 
antifreeze.  Any other recommended techniques?  Any other general tips on 
properly winterizing an A4?

Thanks,
Randy






___



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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

Marek,

the worry is back-filling through the exhaust.  if the engine is not 
running there is a very real risk of water going in through the exhaust 
manifold because there is no pressure from the exhaust of the running 
engine pushing the water out.  It is the same issue if you are having 
trouble starting the engine and you let the starter continue to turn 
everything for an extended time without the engine firing.  It is a well 
documented issue on the Moyer Marine forums.  The cooling pump itself is 
what pumps the water in during difficulty starting while turning the 
starter.


Danny


On 10/11/2016 10:42 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List wrote:
You have to connect the shopvac _after_ the water pump. If your water 
pump is any good it will not allow anything to pass through it (when 
it Is not turning). And if it does, you have to change the impeller.

Marek
*From:* Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2016 07:25
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* Kevin Deluzio
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4
My first haul-out with a new-to-me 1980 C&C30 with an Atomic 4 as 
well. I like the idea of using the shop-vac to blow the water out. Do 
you connect that to the same location - at water intake hose 
disconnected from seacock ?

Kevin


*From:*Josh Muckley 
*Subject:**Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4*
*Date:*October 10, 2016 at 10:27:53 PM EDT
*To:*"C&C List" 


You can plumb in auxiliary suctions that will let you draw glycol 
straight out of the jug.  If you haul the boat you can stuff a tygon 
hose up the through hull and beer bong the glycol into the engine.  
Or you can try the seaflush.  I have one and it works, though it 
might be a bit over priced.  I like using the shop vac to blow the 
water out.  That may actually be sufficient.   I am cautious though 
and carefully consider the possibility of stagnant loops of water. 
So, despite "blowing out"  the engine, I also run glycol.  The nice 
thing is that I don't have to worry as much about the water diluting 
the glycol.  It takes way less glycol to provide freeze protection.


http://www.seaflush.com/sea-flush-1/

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Oct 10, 2016 9:50 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List"  
wrote:


My first haul-out with my 30-1 (purchased in January) is coming
up in a few weeks, sadly. The PO advised me to just run
antifreeze through the raw-water cooling system until it comes
out the exhaust.  My main question is how to get the antifreeze
into the raw water intake.  I've seen a gadget made from a toilet
plunger with a garden hose plumbed into the rubber cone, that can
be held over the raw water intake with the other end of the hose
in a bucket of antifreeze.  Any other recommended techniques? 
Any other general tips on properly winterizing an A4?

Thanks,
Randy





___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!


___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

You have to connect the shopvac _after_ the water pump. If your water pump is 
any good it will not allow anything to pass through it (when it Is not 
turning). And if it does, you have to change the impeller.

Marek


From: Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 07:25
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Kevin Deluzio
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

My first haul-out with a new-to-me 1980 C&C30 with an Atomic 4 as well. I like 
the idea of using the shop-vac to blow the water out. Do you connect that to 
the same location - at water intake hose disconnected from seacock ?

Kevin




From: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4
Date: October 10, 2016 at 10:27:53 PM EDT
To: "C&C List" 



You can plumb in auxiliary suctions that will let you draw glycol straight out 
of the jug.  If you haul the boat you can stuff a tygon hose up the through 
hull and beer bong the glycol into the engine.  Or you can try the seaflush.  I 
have one and it works, though it might be a bit over priced.  I like using the 
shop vac to blow the water out.  That may actually be sufficient.   I am 
cautious though and carefully consider the possibility of stagnant loops of 
water.  So, despite "blowing out"  the engine, I also run glycol.  The nice 
thing is that I don't have to worry as much about the water diluting the 
glycol.  It takes way less glycol to provide freeze protection.

http://www.seaflush.com/sea-flush-1/

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD


On Oct 10, 2016 9:50 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List"  wrote:
My first haul-out with my 30-1 (purchased in January) is coming up in a few 
weeks, sadly. The PO advised me to just run antifreeze through the raw-water 
cooling system until it comes out the exhaust.  My main question is how to get 
the antifreeze into the raw water intake.  I've seen a gadget made from a 
toilet plunger with a garden hose plumbed into the rubber cone, that can be 
held over the raw water intake with the other end of the hose in a bucket of 
antifreeze.  Any other recommended techniques?  Any other general tips on 
properly winterizing an A4?

Thanks,
Randy



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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List]

I use stabilizer and don't bother running the carb dry. I don't know if I
buy that bit of logic anyway because the bowl doesn't empty just because
you run the carb "dry". There's still fuel in there, that's my layman's
understanding, anyway. So I stick to the K.I.S.S principle and don't mess
with running the fuel lines dry. Marvel Myster Oil in the spark plugs
before winter is an excellent suggestion, I do that too - then I hand crank
a few times to circulate the oil.
So far I've never had any issues with the old A4. It gets new plugs, new
ignition components and fresh oil more than regularly.

Steve
Suhana, C&C 32
Toronto



On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 9:02 AM, Danny Haughey via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> When I had an A4, I would typically just pull the hose off the through
> hull and stick it in a jug of glycol, start the engine and let it run until
> I saw it at the exhaust..  I'd usually do another gallon after it started
> coming out the exhaust.  easy peasy!  You DO NOT want to add pressure to
> the intake side if you're still connected at the exhaust without the engine
> running.  You will push water into the engine.  It is best to use the
> engine's usual working condition to pull the glycol through.  If you have a
> thermostat, run the engine on fresh water until it warms up.  You can just
> run a hose into a bucket and suck the water through the same way you would
> with the glycol.  With a thermostat that will only take a few minutes.
>
> This is exactly the same way I do my current diesel engine.
>
> Moyer also suggests pulling the plugs and adding some marvel mystery oil
> to each cylinder.  He also recommends running some MMO in the gas.
>
> Remember to cut the gas valve and run the engine out of gas or fog it or
> something so that gas isn't sitting in the bowl all winter.
>
> Danny
>
> On 10/11/2016 7:24 AM, Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List wrote:
>
> My first haul-out with a new-to-me 1980 C&C30 with an Atomic 4 as well. I
> like the idea of using the shop-vac to blow the water out. Do you connect
> that to the same location - at water intake hose disconnected from seacock ?
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Josh Muckley 
> *Subject: **Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4*
> *Date: *October 10, 2016 at 10:27:53 PM EDT
> *To: *"C&C List" 
>
>
> You can plumb in auxiliary suctions that will let you draw glycol straight
> out of the jug.  If you haul the boat you can stuff a tygon hose up the
> through hull and beer bong the glycol into the engine.  Or you can try the
> seaflush.  I have one and it works, though it might be a bit over priced.
> I like using the shop vac to blow the water out.  That may actually be
> sufficient.   I am cautious though and carefully consider the possibility
> of stagnant loops of water.  So, despite "blowing out"  the engine, I also
> run glycol.  The nice thing is that I don't have to worry as much about the
> water diluting the glycol.  It takes way less glycol to provide freeze
> protection.
>
> http://www.seaflush.com/sea-flush-1/
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Oct 10, 2016 9:50 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
>> My first haul-out with my 30-1 (purchased in January) is coming up in a
>> few weeks, sadly. The PO advised me to just run antifreeze through the
>> raw-water cooling system until it comes out the exhaust.  My main question
>> is how to get the antifreeze into the raw water intake.  I've seen a gadget
>> made from a toilet plunger with a garden hose plumbed into the rubber cone,
>> that can be held over the raw water intake with the other end of the hose
>> in a bucket of antifreeze.  Any other recommended techniques?  Any other
>> general tips on properly winterizing an A4?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Randy
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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Stus-List Race Committee for Pursuit Race

[Francois Rivard via CnC-List]

Sorry, the other comment was sent out prematurely when I accidentally hit a
shortcut key.

Anyway..

Our stipulations:

Except for a few exceptions: Your start and finish time are on the honor
system as the commodore / RC are racing too (My best sailing buddy and
nemesis :-) )

$5.00 entry fee to cover the after race beer and brats party

2 Classes:
- Performance Sport boats: Pretty much anything that will plane out and
keel boats flying spinnakers
- Racer cruisers: The rest (No spin)

If for any reason you want to be in the performance class and do not fly a
spin you add 30 to your phrf. (The racer cruisers usually add it to insure
a close finish between all) After many years of experiments that is as
close to parity as we have found. (Still not quite there in light
conditions but what the heck.. )

Depending on the wind conditions we also have a short finish marker and
motor time. Typically, the leading boat has to make the half way point
marker in less than 2 hours for motor / abandon and about 1 hour for short
finish to a given marker.

We have a lot of fun and they are usually much less contentious than the
Wed night races. Most folks are pretty casual for those and a great is had
by all.

Have fun.

-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA
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Stus-List Race Committee for Pursuit Race

[Francois Rivard via CnC-List]

We do 'em all the time.

We use the aforementioned spreadsheets to determine start times according
to course length and phrf.

We do add a few details:

-  We have 2 classes / fleets:
 Performance: Any boat flying a spinnaker and sport boats  / Racer
Cruisers (No Spin)
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Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

When I had an A4, I would typically just pull the hose off the through 
hull and stick it in a jug of glycol, start the engine and let it run 
until I saw it at the exhaust..  I'd usually do another gallon after it 
started coming out the exhaust.  easy peasy!  You DO NOT want to add 
pressure to the intake side if you're still connected at the exhaust 
without the engine running.  You will push water into the engine.  It is 
best to use the engine's usual working condition to pull the glycol 
through.  If you have a thermostat, run the engine on fresh water until 
it warms up.  You can just run a hose into a bucket and suck the water 
through the same way you would with the glycol.  With a thermostat that 
will only take a few minutes.


This is exactly the same way I do my current diesel engine.

Moyer also suggests pulling the plugs and adding some marvel mystery oil 
to each cylinder.  He also recommends running some MMO in the gas.


Remember to cut the gas valve and run the engine out of gas or fog it or 
something so that gas isn't sitting in the bowl all winter.


Danny


On 10/11/2016 7:24 AM, Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List wrote:
My first haul-out with a new-to-me 1980 C&C30 with an Atomic 4 as 
well. I like the idea of using the shop-vac to blow the water out. Do 
you connect that to the same location - at water intake hose 
disconnected from seacock ?


Kevin





*From:*Josh Muckley mailto:muckl...@gmail.com>>
*Subject:**Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4*
*Date:*October 10, 2016 at 10:27:53 PM EDT
*To:*"C&C List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>


You can plumb in auxiliary suctions that will let you draw glycol 
straight out of the jug.  If you haul the boat you can stuff a tygon 
hose up the through hull and beer bong the glycol into the engine.  
Or you can try the seaflush.  I have one and it works, though it 
might be a bit over priced.  I like using the shop vac to blow the 
water out.  That may actually be sufficient.   I am cautious though 
and carefully consider the possibility of stagnant loops of water.  
So, despite "blowing out"  the engine, I also run glycol.  The nice 
thing is that I don't have to worry as much about the water diluting 
the glycol.  It takes way less glycol to provide freeze protection.


http://www.seaflush.com/sea-flush-1/

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD


On Oct 10, 2016 9:50 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List" > wrote:


My first haul-out with my 30-1 (purchased in January) is coming
up in a few weeks, sadly. The PO advised me to just run
antifreeze through the raw-water cooling system until it comes
out the exhaust.  My main question is how to get the antifreeze
into the raw water intake.  I've seen a gadget made from a toilet
plunger with a garden hose plumbed into the rubber cone, that can
be held over the raw water intake with the other end of the hose
in a bucket of antifreeze.  Any other recommended techniques? Any
other general tips on properly winterizing an A4?

Thanks,
Randy






___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!


___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Race Committee for Pursuit Race

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

I have organized and run many Pursuit races. They are a great way of relieving 
the tension at the start line and can be fun and exciting at the finish.

 

First, you must know the course length, then calculate the time offset for each 
boat’s handicap. I can give examples – best offline.

 

Gary Nylander

Maryland

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Kevin 
Driscoll via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 7:16 PM
To: C&C List 
Cc: Kevin Driscoll 
Subject: Stus-List Race Committee for Pursuit Race

 

Has anyone been organized and been Race Committee for a 'Pursuit Race' 
  
before? I am curious how you went about it. 

 

Obviously there is some calculation of start times in relation to each boat's 
rating. These are our contestants 

 . I figure there will be three starts. 1 for the 'Level' racers, 1 for 'No 
Score' racers, and another for PHRF, i.e. the Pursuit racers. This is the first 
race in our winter series, which runs till March. We thought we might kick it 
off with a fun race format. Thanks for your input!

 

Kevin 

30-2

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Re: Stus-List Race Committee for Pursuit Race

[rjcasciato via CnC-List]

Kevin.how many boats will sail in the PHRF fleet.will there be a mix of 
spinnaker and non spinnakers??If that fleet is mixed...Regattaman  simply adds 
10 seconds to the non spinnaker boat and enters that rating into the 
spreadsheet...Here in NE that Chase Race had a rating spread from 45 to over 
200...the C&C 38 non spinnaker start was 33:33 after the first start gun.
Ron C.

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: RANDY via CnC-List 
 Date: 10/10/16  11:48 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Kevin 
Driscoll  Cc: RANDY , 
cnc-list  Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Committee for 
Pursuit Race 
OK I put one such spreadsheet in 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTbG9JcGs1MFpWOTQ, called 
Corrections.xlsx.  It shows time corrections in seconds using PHRF TOT for a 
number of different boats in my club, given elapsed time in a race.  For 
example in a one-hour JAM race I have to beat the Catalina 27s by two minutes, 
and the Catalina 25 by 3.5 minutes, or they'll correct over me.
You could edit the spreadsheet to contain data for the boats in your race 
(given their PHRF ratings), and use the data to figure out start times.  Column 
D contains the Time Correction Factor for each boat, given its PHRF rating and 
the PHRF TOT formula TCF=A/(B+PHRF).  You can plug in whatever values your club 
uses into cells B2 and B3.
I've asked my club's scorer for his pursuit race start time spreadsheet, and 
will put it on my Google drive when I get it, and notify you.
Cheers,
Randy
From: "Kevin Driscoll" 
To: "RANDY" , "cnc-list" 
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 9:13:09 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Committee for Pursuit Race

Thanks everybody. Randy, if it were not too much trouble it would be great to 
see your spreadsheet. Dennis sent one that I could definitely use too. I have 
this great IRC version, but it doesn't apply for PHRF.  Regatta Rasta man is 
pay to play so I am going to pass on that. We'll be doing time on distance with 
the course set up ahead of thin time.Keep sharing your experience of you have 
more to add. Thanks again everyone!
On Mon, Oct 10, 2016, 6:39 PM RANDY  wrote:
Yeah we just had one yesterday.  Start times per PHRF rating were calculated 
using TOT (A=715, B=515) assuming a two-hour race.  We just race laps around 
three pre-designated marks in our lake.  90 minutes into the race, the next 
mark ahead for the lead boat becomes the last mark everybody has to round.  We 
don't use an RC boat for this; starting at the right time is an honor system 
(and the finish order is obvious; no correction needed).  We use a pair of 
no-wake-zone buoys as the start line, and the marina channel markers as the 
finish line.  You can see our SIs here, including a table of start times per 
PHRF rating (assuming a 2:00 p.m. start for the first (slowest) boat racing) - 
https://csyc.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/CSYC-2016-PursuitRace.pdf.  I don't 
have the spreadsheet that was used to figure these start times, but I could 
probably get it if you want it.
Cheers,Randy StaffordS/V GrenadineC&C 30-1 #7Ken Caryl, CO
From: "Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List" 
To: "C&C List" 
Cc: "Kevin Driscoll" 
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 5:16:20 PM
Subject: Stus-List Race Committee for Pursuit Race

Has anyone been organized and been Race Committee for a 'Pursuit Race'before? I 
am curious how you went about it. 
Obviously there is some calculation of start times in relation to each boat's 
rating. These are our contestants. I figure there will be three starts. 1 for 
the 'Level' racers, 1 for 'No Score' racers, and another for PHRF, i.e. the 
Pursuit racers. This is the first race in our winter series, which runs till 
March. We thought we might kick it off with a fun race format. Thanks for your 
input!
Kevin 30-2
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Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List]

My first haul-out with a new-to-me 1980 C&C30 with an Atomic 4 as well. I like 
the idea of using the shop-vac to blow the water out. Do you connect that to 
the same location - at water intake hose disconnected from seacock ?

Kevin




> From: Josh Muckley mailto:muckl...@gmail.com>>
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4
> Date: October 10, 2016 at 10:27:53 PM EDT
> To: "C&C List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
> 
> 
> You can plumb in auxiliary suctions that will let you draw glycol straight 
> out of the jug.  If you haul the boat you can stuff a tygon hose up the 
> through hull and beer bong the glycol into the engine.  Or you can try the 
> seaflush.  I have one and it works, though it might be a bit over priced.  I 
> like using the shop vac to blow the water out.  That may actually be 
> sufficient.   I am cautious though and carefully consider the possibility of 
> stagnant loops of water.  So, despite "blowing out"  the engine, I also run 
> glycol.  The nice thing is that I don't have to worry as much about the water 
> diluting the glycol.  It takes way less glycol to provide freeze protection.
> 
> http://www.seaflush.com/sea-flush-1/ 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> 
> 
> On Oct 10, 2016 9:50 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List"  > wrote:
> My first haul-out with my 30-1 (purchased in January) is coming up in a few 
> weeks, sadly. The PO advised me to just run antifreeze through the raw-water 
> cooling system until it comes out the exhaust.  My main question is how to 
> get the antifreeze into the raw water intake.  I've seen a gadget made from a 
> toilet plunger with a garden hose plumbed into the rubber cone, that can be 
> held over the raw water intake with the other end of the hose in a bucket of 
> antifreeze.  Any other recommended techniques?  Any other general tips on 
> properly winterizing an A4?
> 
> Thanks,
> Randy
> 
> 

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