Re: Stus-List Pins in Chainplates

[John Rand via CnC-List]

Yes, you tap them out (and back in) with a nail countersink.


John

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 9:34 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Yes, that pin is to hold down the plate covering the bedding compound.
>
> Bruce
>
> Please forgive any typos as this was sent from my iPhone.
>
> On Jan 31, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Lee Youngblood via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> They are likely there to hold down the bedding plate.  Sometimes you have
> screws and pins which can be lifted up for rebedding around the chainplates.
>
>
> On Jan 31, 2017, at 5:36 12PM, RANDY via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> Does anybody know what the heck these pins in C chainplates are for?
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTa2dfMFlmWHlsR0U
>
> Cheers,
> Randy
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Pins in Chainplates

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Yes, that pin is to hold down the plate covering the bedding compound.

Bruce

Please forgive any typos as this was sent from my iPhone.

> On Jan 31, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Lee Youngblood via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> They are likely there to hold down the bedding plate.  Sometimes you have 
> screws and pins which can be lifted up for rebedding around the chainplates.
> 
> 
>> On Jan 31, 2017, at 5:36 12PM, RANDY via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Does anybody know what the heck these pins in C chainplates are for?
>> 
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTa2dfMFlmWHlsR0U
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Randy
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
>> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I did a similar process with the PO. It lasted about 10 years then started 
leaking a small
amount. The caulking had hardened and was not sealing well against the chain 
plate.
The caulking came away from the SS easily, was a job scraping it away from the 
deck.

I tried a marine silicon based sealant the next time, never sealed that well.

Third time I used Bed-It Butyl ( thanks Ed for splitting an order ). Much 
easier and has
sealed perfectly.  I like being able to lift the plate, check / move / add 
butyl if required.
That may be one of the few spots were there is appreciable movement that the 
caulking
has to deal with, and staying stuck to SS is tough.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1



From: RANDY  
 
Thanks Josh, and Danny, and Mike.  
 
Dennis C. is out here in Colorado from Louisiana for a few weeks to do some 
skiing, so he gave me some free consulting today (well, I did take him to the 
local Cajun joint the other week and buy him a po'boy and a couple beers, which 
was the least I could do).  
 
Anyway Dennis looked at my chainplate cutouts today and we made a plan of 
attack for the job, which basically amounts to a re-seal: dig out an inch of 
core around the cutouts, fill with thickened epoxy (with the chainplates in 
place), then re-seal. Of course that's a summarization and there is some devil 
in the details, and I appreciate all of your tips. But that should be 
sufficient to prevent any further water intrusion into the core. I'm not having 
any deck strength issues.  
 
I'll post some pics of during and after the project. Thanks again Dennis!  
 
Cheers,  
Randy  
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Pins in Chainplates

[Lee Youngblood via CnC-List]

They are likely there to hold down the bedding plate.  Sometimes you have 
screws and pins which can be lifted up for rebedding around the chainplates.


> On Jan 31, 2017, at 5:36 12PM, RANDY via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Does anybody know what the heck these pins in C chainplates are for?
> 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTa2dfMFlmWHlsR0U 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Randy
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Pins in Chainplates

[RANDY via CnC-List]

Does anybody know what the heck these pins in C chainplates are for? 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTa2dfMFlmWHlsR0U 

Cheers, 
Randy 
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank Cleaner?

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I drain mine in the fall and use it in the snow blower - gas from an Atomic 4.

There are various opinions on how much condensation is even possible at lower
temperatures and small amounts of air pumping back and forth.

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/fuel_tankt_condensation

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/myth_of_condensation_in_fuel_tanks.htm

Although I have never seen water from over the winter I still fill and drain
a bit of gas through the tank in the spring then use it in the lawnmower.
Fact or fiction it is still an easy maintenance step.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1



From: "Jake Brodersen"  

Josh, 
 
I always fill my tank up at the end of the season to keep condensation down.  A 
half full tank will ?make water? with the daily heating and cooling cycles.   
 
Jake 
 
 
Jake Brodersen 
 
C 35 Mk-III ?Midnight Mistress? 
 
Hampton VA 
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[RANDY via CnC-List]

Thanks Josh, and Danny, and Mike. 

Dennis C. is out here in Colorado from Louisiana for a few weeks to do some 
skiing, so he gave me some free consulting today (well, I did take him to the 
local Cajun joint the other week and buy him a po'boy and a couple beers, which 
was the least I could do). 

Anyway Dennis looked at my chainplate cutouts today and we made a plan of 
attack for the job, which basically amounts to a re-seal: dig out an inch of 
core around the cutouts, fill with thickened epoxy (with the chainplates in 
place), then re-seal. Of course that's a summarization and there is some devil 
in the details, and I appreciate all of your tips. But that should be 
sufficient to prevent any further water intrusion into the core. I'm not having 
any deck strength issues. 

I'll post some pics of during and after the project. Thanks again Dennis! 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Josh Muckley via CnC-List"  
To: "C List"  
Cc: "Josh Muckley"  
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 12:05:16 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates 

Randy, 

When I use the bent nail trick, I actually us allen wrenches and dig 
progressively deeper and deeper by going larger and larger on the choice of 
wrench. You'll want a shopvac. You may also have trouble getting the thickened 
epoxy to wet out all of the inner surfaces and then you may have trouble 
getting the thickened epoxy to not sag. When you do such a large volume be 
careful of thermal runaway and if you do it in smaller batches just be careful 
of the possibility of amine blush not allowing a good bond between layers. 

Here are my suggested solutions: Seal the bottom of the void completely. For 
small holes on smooth interior surfaces masking tape, duct tape, or gorilla 
tape works fine. For uneven interior surfaces you may need a strongback. A 
piece of wood plank wrapped in waxed paper with 1 or 2 long bolts through it 
would probably work. You'll want to consider some type of inner gasket. Playdow 
or plasticine should work pretty well to eliminate the possibility of leaks. 
Nobody wants epoxy leaking into their cabin. The long bolts let you attach an 
outer backing plate which will pull the wood tight to the inner surface. Once 
you have confidence in your setup, mix up a small batch of 5 MINUTE epoxy. 
Spread this on the inner surfaces which might leak, just to create one more 
barrier. It doesn't need to be a lot. 5 minutes later you can use a low 
viscosity epoxy to completely wet out the void (I like smith's CPES). A syringe 
and/or a piece of tubing may be helpful. To avoid amine blush between layers I 
would try to do a single "monolithic" pour of your thickened epoxy. To avoid 
thermal run away find an epoxy that has a painfully long cure time in hot 
weather. Then with your unthickened epoxy of choice fill the cavity to the 
brim. As you're filling focus on the areas nearest the boat's centerline since 
these are elevated and won't get covered as the liquid reaches the lower brim. 
Use your syringe to suck out the epoxy into a container. Add your filler and 
then refill the cavity. Something with a consistency of peanut butter (like 
Six/10) is great since it won't sag but it is also flawed in that unless you 
can hydraulicly push the mix into the voids you are at risk of not getting a 
complete fill. A little thinner and gravity will help fill the voids but then 
it runs out the lower holes and flows over the lower brim. In an ideal world 
you would have an outer strongback which is gasketed the same as the inner one. 
Drill a small hole (1/8th or 3/16ths) near the outboard edge of the void and 
another near the inboard edge. Use the bottom (outboard) hole to inject 
thickened epoxy into the void until it comes out the vent at the top (inboard). 
Use a wood screw to plug the fill hole and then make sure it is topped up at 
the vent. 

If you feel like it, those long bolts are useful for holding down a cover on 
your project. 

A day or two later you can remove the vent screw to test how the epoxy has 
curred. Can't get the screw out? That's probably a good thing. Try to unbolt 
your strong backs but if they are stuck a little heat from a torch will make 
them slide right out. Waxed paper should release and the plasticine will 
unstick. Now you have a perfect plug of epoxy. Just drill a series of holes to 
get a saw blade in and then cut your slot for the chain plate. Once you get the 
slot wide enough a small sanding drum is invaluable for dressing up the area. I 
would hesitate making the slot any wider than necessary. I don't think the 
chain plate needs to move side to side in the slot so wider than necessary just 
makes sealing the hole more difficult. Chamfer the edges of the slot to create 
a funnel for the sealant. Predrill the holes for the cover and counter sink 
them to funnel sealant too. I don't know of a good reason not to use 

Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank Cleaner?

[Jake Brodersen via CnC-List]

Josh,

 

I always fill my tank up at the end of the season to keep condensation down.  A 
half full tank will “make water” with the daily heating and cooling cycles.  

 

Jake

 

Jake Brodersen

C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress”

Hampton VA

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 12:25
To: C List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank 
Cleaner?

 

Some people get touchy about running questionable fuel through the tank of 
their beloed diesel truck.  Besides getting stuck on the side of the road could 
be worse than getting stuck dead in the water.  At least in the water we still 
have our primary means of propulsion.  Now if this is just an end of year 
routine and there is good faith in the cleanliness of the diesel being 
transferred to the truck then there is absolutely no problem.  

 

It will probably never matter to most of us but some marinas offer off road 
diesel which hasn't had a DOT tax.  This diesel is died red so that inspectors 
can catch you using "off road" in your car or truck.  Typically passenger 
vehicles don't get their tanks "dipped" so we'll probably never get caught but 
just know that it is a possibility.

 

The most critical part of most diesel engines is the fuel injectors or HP fuel 
pump.  They both have extremely tight tolerances to ensure proper spray 
pattern, pressure, and volume are achieved.  That's why we have so many fuel 
filters, often running as fine as 2 microns.  A proper injector or HP pump 
cleaning is equivalent to a rebuild and may not be effective without 
replacement parts.  Your home fuel oil furnace burner has orifices in an easily 
replaced nozzle and the filtering recommendation is 50 microns, 25 times larger 
than that of our engines.  Furnaces also have considerably more room for a 
larger capacity filter or more of them.  In a dilution is the solution 
situation the home tank is also considerably larger so 40 gallons gets spread 
out further.

 

 

On the topic of additives:  One of the problems facing our older engines is 
ULSD (Untra Low Sulfur Diesel) which is being sold at the pumps.  Sulfer is a 
lubricity additive that is supposed to ensure low friction and low wear on 
those tight tolerance parts I mentioned earlier.  Our older engines where not 
designed with this lower sulfer concentration in mind.  An off the shelf 
additive that gets high marks across the Internet and one from which I've been 
able to see a performance improvement is Opti-Lube.  It is relatively 
inexpensive and IMO anyone with a diesel should consider adding it to their 
treatment plan.  In 5 seasons of operation I've never used a biocide and never 
needed to change my fuel filters.  I run 2 micron in both the primary and 
secondary and I have a vacuum gage which I monitor for filter fouling.  I use 
60 to 80 gallons per season and end the season with ~1/2 tank (~20gal).  I 
freshen up the tank by filling it at the beginning of the following season.  I 
do try to use a filter funnel to remove moisture when I can.  The funnel slows 
things up so it works best with a jerry can.  Depending on the situation I fill 
the can from the gas station OR fuel dock.  Sometimes when pressed for time or 
very low fuel in the boat tank I just fill straight from the dock, no funnel, 
no jerry can. 

 

http://opti-lube.com

 

 

Josh Muckley

S/V Sea Hawk

1989 C 37+

Solomons, MD

___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List replacing cruddy interior doors in Landfall 38

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

Wow! Nice job! Those look great! 


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
 Original message From: Dreuge via CnC-List 
 Date: 1/31/17  5:38 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Dreuge  Subject: Stus-List 
replacing cruddy interior doors in Landfall 38 
Hi,
I have always hated the cheap formica laminated doors which came with my 
Landfall 38.  I tried removing the formica and refinishing the underlaying wood 
face with limited sucess, but I recently found a great deal on Ebay for new 
teak doors.  I installed one door this past weekend and just wrote up something 
quickly with photos on my blog.  If any is interested, Ebay still has a few 
teak doors available 
(http://www.ebay.com/itm/Teak-Door-19-5-8-x-66-5-8-/252443290601?hash=item3ac6caebe9:g:zugAAOSwRQlXc-h6=mtr)
Here is a link to the write up: 
http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/2017/01/new-cabin-teak-doors.html


-
Paul E.1981 C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL
http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/


___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List replacing cruddy interior doors in Landfall 38

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

Hi,

I have always hated the cheap formica laminated doors which came with my 
Landfall 38.  I tried removing the formica and refinishing the underlaying wood 
face with limited sucess, but I recently found a great deal on Ebay for new 
teak doors.  I installed one door this past weekend and just wrote up something 
quickly with photos on my blog.  If any is interested, Ebay still has a few 
teak doors available 
(http://www.ebay.com/itm/Teak-Door-19-5-8-x-66-5-8-/252443290601?hash=item3ac6caebe9:g:zugAAOSwRQlXc-h6=mtr)

Here is a link to the write up: 
http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/2017/01/new-cabin-teak-doors.html 



-
Paul E.
1981 C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank Cleaner?

[Paul Wyand via CnC-List]

If you use heating oil at home, then I would dump it into my heating oil
tank. Then clean the tank out as best you can and start off fresh. I like
the Startron on gasoline, has kept several-year-old 10% alcohol laden gas
fresh for my atomic 4.

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Gary Nylander via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> When my fuel tank sprung a leak, the boatyard let me dump my almost full
> tank into their crane. “It’ll burn anything”…
>
>
>
> Gary
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
> Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 31, 2017 12:25 PM
> *To:* C List 
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley 
>
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron
> Fuel Tank Cleaner?
>
>
>
> Some people get touchy about running questionable fuel through the tank of
> their beloed diesel truck.  Besides getting stuck on the side of the road
> could be worse than getting stuck dead in the water.  At least in the water
> we still have our primary means of propulsion.  Now if this is just an end
> of year routine and there is good faith in the cleanliness of the diesel
> being transferred to the truck then there is absolutely no problem.
>
>
>
> It will probably never matter to most of us but some marinas offer off
> road diesel which hasn't had a DOT tax.  This diesel is died red so that
> inspectors can catch you using "off road" in your car or truck.  Typically
> passenger vehicles don't get their tanks "dipped" so we'll probably never
> get caught but just know that it is a possibility.
>
>
>
> The most critical part of most diesel engines is the fuel injectors or HP
> fuel pump.  They both have extremely tight tolerances to ensure proper
> spray pattern, pressure, and volume are achieved.  That's why we have so
> many fuel filters, often running as fine as 2 microns.  A proper injector
> or HP pump cleaning is equivalent to a rebuild and may not be effective
> without replacement parts.  Your home fuel oil furnace burner has orifices
> in an easily replaced nozzle and the filtering recommendation is 50
> microns, 25 times larger than that of our engines.  Furnaces also have
> considerably more room for a larger capacity filter or more of them.  In a
> dilution is the solution situation the home tank is also considerably
> larger so 40 gallons gets spread out further.
>
>
>
>
>
> *On the topic of additives:*  One of the problems facing our older
> engines is ULSD (Untra Low Sulfur Diesel) which is being sold at the
> pumps.  Sulfer is a lubricity additive that is supposed to ensure low
> friction and low wear on those tight tolerance parts I mentioned earlier.
> Our older engines where not designed with this lower sulfer concentration
> in mind.  An off the shelf additive that gets high marks across the
> Internet and one from which I've been able to see a performance improvement
> is Opti-Lube.  It is relatively inexpensive and IMO anyone with a diesel
> should consider adding it to their treatment plan.  In 5 seasons of
> operation I've never used a biocide and never needed to change my fuel
> filters.  I run 2 micron in both the primary and secondary and I have a
> vacuum gage which I monitor for filter fouling.  I use 60 to 80 gallons per
> season and end the season with ~1/2 tank (~20gal).  I freshen up the tank
> by filling it at the beginning of the following season.  I do try to use a
> filter funnel to remove moisture when I can.  The funnel slows things up so
> it works best with a jerry can.  Depending on the situation I fill the can
> from the gas station OR fuel dock.  Sometimes when pressed for time or very
> low fuel in the boat tank I just fill straight from the dock, no funnel, no
> jerry can.
>
>
>
> http://opti-lube.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Josh Muckley
>
> S/V Sea Hawk
>
> 1989 C 37+
>
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 8:11 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Why not empty into jerrycans and run in a diesel truck?  Given that the
> truck goes through a lot more fuel it should not hurt the truck
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
> Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Monday, January 30, 2017 9:48 PM
> *To:* C List
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron
> Fuel Tank Cleaner?
>
>
>
> FYI that engine burns roughly 1 gallon per hour and the fuel tank capacity
> is roughly 40 gallons.  So you're potentially facing a considerable amount
> of run time just to get rid of the old fuel.
>
>
>
> After recircing it for the desired time, you might just consider disposing
> of the fuel.  It can usually be disposed of the same as any used motor oil.
>
>
>
> I would be torn about wasting all that fuel and would base my decision on
> how bad the results of the recirc were.  I'd also consider how well the
> engine runs on the old fuel and how much you actually have.  A 

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Randy,

When I use the bent nail trick, I actually us allen wrenches and dig
progressively deeper and deeper by going larger and larger on the choice of
wrench.  You'll want a shopvac.  You may also have trouble getting the
thickened epoxy to wet out all of the inner surfaces and then you may have
trouble getting the thickened epoxy to not sag.  When you do such a large
volume be careful of thermal runaway and if you do it in smaller batches
just be careful of the possibility of amine blush not allowing a good bond
between layers.

Here are my suggested solutions:  Seal the bottom of the void completely.
For small holes on smooth interior surfaces masking tape, duct tape, or
gorilla tape works fine.  For uneven interior surfaces you may need a
strongback.  A piece of wood plank wrapped in waxed paper with 1 or 2 long
bolts through it would probably work.  You'll want to consider some type of
inner gasket.  Playdow or plasticine should work pretty well to eliminate
the possibility of leaks.  Nobody wants epoxy leaking into their cabin.
The long bolts let you attach an outer backing plate which will pull the
wood tight to the inner surface.  Once you have confidence in your setup,
mix up a small batch of 5 MINUTE epoxy.  Spread this on the inner surfaces
which might leak, just to create one more barrier.  It doesn't need to be a
lot.  5 minutes later you can use a low viscosity epoxy to completely wet
out the void (I like smith's CPES).  A syringe and/or a piece of tubing may
be helpful.  To avoid amine blush between layers I would try to do a single
"monolithic" pour of your thickened epoxy.   To avoid thermal run away find
an epoxy that has a painfully long cure time in hot weather.  Then with
your unthickened epoxy of choice fill the cavity to the brim.  As you're
filling focus on the areas nearest the boat's centerline since these are
elevated and won't get covered as the liquid reaches the lower brim.  Use
your syringe to suck out the epoxy into a container.  Add your filler and
then refill the cavity.  Something with a consistency of peanut butter
(like Six/10) is great since it won't sag but it is also flawed in that
unless you can hydraulicly push the mix into the voids you are at risk of
not getting a complete fill.  A little thinner and gravity will help fill
the voids but then it runs out the lower holes and flows over the lower
brim.  In an ideal world you would have an outer strongback which is
gasketed the same as the inner one.  Drill a small hole (1/8th or 3/16ths)
near the outboard edge of the void and another near the inboard edge.   Use
the bottom (outboard) hole to inject thickened epoxy into the void until it
comes out the vent at the top (inboard).  Use a wood screw to plug the fill
hole and then make sure it is topped up at the vent.

If you feel like it, those long bolts are useful for holding down a cover
on your project.

A day or two later you can remove the vent screw to test how the epoxy has
curred.  Can't get the screw out?  That's probably a good thing.  Try to
unbolt your strong backs but if they are stuck a little heat from a torch
will make them slide right out.  Waxed paper should release and the
plasticine will unstick.  Now you have a perfect plug of epoxy.  Just drill
a series of holes to get a saw blade in and then cut your slot for the
chain plate.  Once you get the slot wide enough a small sanding drum is
invaluable for dressing up the area.  I would hesitate making the slot any
wider than necessary.  I don't think the chain plate needs to move side to
side in the slot so wider than necessary just makes sealing the hole more
difficult.  Chamfer the edges of the slot to create a funnel for the
sealant.  Predrill the holes for the cover and counter sink them to funnel
sealant too.  I don't know of a good reason not to use butyl tape so once
your plate is bolted back in place make sure to pack any gap around the
chain plate and make a doughnut around the chain plate.  Layer the cover
plate with a thin layer of butyl (stay about 1/4 of an inch from the
edges).  Tighten everything down.  Having an extra set of hands will help
at almost every step of the process.

Good luck,
Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD


On Jan 30, 2017 10:17 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List" 
wrote:

I'd really like to thank everyone for all the responses on this.

Went back to the boat today and carefully re-examined the core around the
chainplate cutouts, and did a bunch of testing - percussion testing,
weighting the area and looking for deflection, etc.  Put a few pictures up
at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTcTV6UlEwMmlqZkk.

I don't think the extent of coring warrants peeling the top skin and
replacing core material; I think digging out some core around the edges,
and filling with thickened epoxy, will be enough of an improvement and
repair.  The deck, especially outboard and downslope of the chainplate
cutouts, doesn't sound dull and doesn't 

Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank Cleaner?

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

When my fuel tank sprung a leak, the boatyard let me dump my almost full tank 
into their crane. “It’ll burn anything”…

 

Gary

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 12:25 PM
To: C List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank 
Cleaner?

 

Some people get touchy about running questionable fuel through the tank of 
their beloed diesel truck.  Besides getting stuck on the side of the road could 
be worse than getting stuck dead in the water.  At least in the water we still 
have our primary means of propulsion.  Now if this is just an end of year 
routine and there is good faith in the cleanliness of the diesel being 
transferred to the truck then there is absolutely no problem.  

 

It will probably never matter to most of us but some marinas offer off road 
diesel which hasn't had a DOT tax.  This diesel is died red so that inspectors 
can catch you using "off road" in your car or truck.  Typically passenger 
vehicles don't get their tanks "dipped" so we'll probably never get caught but 
just know that it is a possibility.

 

The most critical part of most diesel engines is the fuel injectors or HP fuel 
pump.  They both have extremely tight tolerances to ensure proper spray 
pattern, pressure, and volume are achieved.  That's why we have so many fuel 
filters, often running as fine as 2 microns.  A proper injector or HP pump 
cleaning is equivalent to a rebuild and may not be effective without 
replacement parts.  Your home fuel oil furnace burner has orifices in an easily 
replaced nozzle and the filtering recommendation is 50 microns, 25 times larger 
than that of our engines.  Furnaces also have considerably more room for a 
larger capacity filter or more of them.  In a dilution is the solution 
situation the home tank is also considerably larger so 40 gallons gets spread 
out further.

 

 

On the topic of additives:  One of the problems facing our older engines is 
ULSD (Untra Low Sulfur Diesel) which is being sold at the pumps.  Sulfer is a 
lubricity additive that is supposed to ensure low friction and low wear on 
those tight tolerance parts I mentioned earlier.  Our older engines where not 
designed with this lower sulfer concentration in mind.  An off the shelf 
additive that gets high marks across the Internet and one from which I've been 
able to see a performance improvement is Opti-Lube.  It is relatively 
inexpensive and IMO anyone with a diesel should consider adding it to their 
treatment plan.  In 5 seasons of operation I've never used a biocide and never 
needed to change my fuel filters.  I run 2 micron in both the primary and 
secondary and I have a vacuum gage which I monitor for filter fouling.  I use 
60 to 80 gallons per season and end the season with ~1/2 tank (~20gal).  I 
freshen up the tank by filling it at the beginning of the following season.  I 
do try to use a filter funnel to remove moisture when I can.  The funnel slows 
things up so it works best with a jerry can.  Depending on the situation I fill 
the can from the gas station OR fuel dock.  Sometimes when pressed for time or 
very low fuel in the boat tank I just fill straight from the dock, no funnel, 
no jerry can. 

 

http://opti-lube.com

 

 

Josh Muckley

S/V Sea Hawk

1989 C 37+

Solomons, MD

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 8:11 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List  > wrote:

Why not empty into jerrycans and run in a diesel truck?  Given that the truck 
goes through a lot more fuel it should not hurt the truck

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
 ] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 9:48 PM
To: C List
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank 
Cleaner?

 

FYI that engine burns roughly 1 gallon per hour and the fuel tank capacity is 
roughly 40 gallons.  So you're potentially facing a considerable amount of run 
time just to get rid of the old fuel.

 

After recircing it for the desired time, you might just consider disposing of 
the fuel.  It can usually be disposed of the same as any used motor oil. 

 

I would be torn about wasting all that fuel and would base my decision on how 
bad the results of the recirc were.  I'd also consider how well the engine runs 
on the old fuel and how much you actually have.  A quarter tank (10 gal) of 
fuel is at lot less to dilute out than 3/4 of a tank (30 gal).

 

For the delivery trip you would be well served by keeping a 5 gallon jerry can 
of diesel and ~10ft of 1/4 inch fuel hose.  If something goes wrong you you can 
plumb a suction from the fresh diesel can.  Just in case. 

 

Josh Muckley

S/V Sea Hawk

1989 C 37+

Solomons, MD 

 

On Jan 30, 2017 8:30 PM, "Bruce Whitmore via 

Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank Cleaner?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Some people get touchy about running questionable fuel through the tank of
their beloed diesel truck.  Besides getting stuck on the side of the road
could be worse than getting stuck dead in the water.  At least in the water
we still have our primary means of propulsion.  Now if this is just an end
of year routine and there is good faith in the cleanliness of the diesel
being transferred to the truck then there is absolutely no problem.

It will probably never matter to most of us but some marinas offer off road
diesel which hasn't had a DOT tax.  This diesel is died red so that
inspectors can catch you using "off road" in your car or truck.  Typically
passenger vehicles don't get their tanks "dipped" so we'll probably never
get caught but just know that it is a possibility.

The most critical part of most diesel engines is the fuel injectors or HP
fuel pump.  They both have extremely tight tolerances to ensure proper
spray pattern, pressure, and volume are achieved.  That's why we have so
many fuel filters, often running as fine as 2 microns.  A proper injector
or HP pump cleaning is equivalent to a rebuild and may not be effective
without replacement parts.  Your home fuel oil furnace burner has orifices
in an easily replaced nozzle and the filtering recommendation is 50
microns, 25 times larger than that of our engines.  Furnaces also have
considerably more room for a larger capacity filter or more of them.  In a
dilution is the solution situation the home tank is also considerably
larger so 40 gallons gets spread out further.


*On the topic of additives:*  One of the problems facing our older engines
is ULSD (Untra Low Sulfur Diesel) which is being sold at the pumps.  Sulfer
is a lubricity additive that is supposed to ensure low friction and low
wear on those tight tolerance parts I mentioned earlier.  Our older engines
where not designed with this lower sulfer concentration in mind.  An off
the shelf additive that gets high marks across the Internet and one from
which I've been able to see a performance improvement is Opti-Lube.  It is
relatively inexpensive and IMO anyone with a diesel should consider adding
it to their treatment plan.  In 5 seasons of operation I've never used a
biocide and never needed to change my fuel filters.  I run 2 micron in both
the primary and secondary and I have a vacuum gage which I monitor for
filter fouling.  I use 60 to 80 gallons per season and end the season with
~1/2 tank (~20gal).  I freshen up the tank by filling it at the beginning
of the following season.  I do try to use a filter funnel to remove
moisture when I can.  The funnel slows things up so it works best with a
jerry can.  Depending on the situation I fill the can from the gas station
OR fuel dock.  Sometimes when pressed for time or very low fuel in the boat
tank I just fill straight from the dock, no funnel, no jerry can.

http://opti-lube.com


Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 8:11 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Why not empty into jerrycans and run in a diesel truck?  Given that the
> truck goes through a lot more fuel it should not hurt the truck
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
> Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Monday, January 30, 2017 9:48 PM
> *To:* C List
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron
> Fuel Tank Cleaner?
>
>
>
> FYI that engine burns roughly 1 gallon per hour and the fuel tank capacity
> is roughly 40 gallons.  So you're potentially facing a considerable amount
> of run time just to get rid of the old fuel.
>
>
>
> After recircing it for the desired time, you might just consider disposing
> of the fuel.  It can usually be disposed of the same as any used motor oil.
>
>
>
> I would be torn about wasting all that fuel and would base my decision on
> how bad the results of the recirc were.  I'd also consider how well the
> engine runs on the old fuel and how much you actually have.  A quarter tank
> (10 gal) of fuel is at lot less to dilute out than 3/4 of a tank (30 gal).
>
>
>
> For the delivery trip you would be well served by keeping a 5 gallon jerry
> can of diesel and ~10ft of 1/4 inch fuel hose.  If something goes wrong you
> you can plumb a suction from the fresh diesel can.  Just in case.
>
>
>
> Josh Muckley
>
> S/V Sea Hawk
>
> 1989 C 37+
>
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
> On Jan 30, 2017 8:30 PM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Out of an abundance of caution, given that the boat I am buying has been
> started, but not substantially run (other than for our survey) for about 5
> years, I would like to be extra-cautious about potential fuel tank
> contamination.
>
>
>
> I think that the tank is about half-full.  At the suggestion of one of our
> contributors here, I will patch in a 12v. pump and recirculate the fuel
> through my Racor filter for a number of hours in an attempt to 

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

ahh  now I see there is an enlarged hole already.  If this were my 
issue,  I'd open it up past the bolt holes and make a solid FG pad 
here.  then cut a new slot, drill new bolt holes and protect that balsa 
core from ever being victim to water damage again. Basically a mini 
version of Mikes repair.  Or, could you just remove the core back past 
the bolt holes and fill the whole thing with an epoxy/filler mix?  I 
think the main thing is to protect the remaining core from ever getting 
wet again from these openings.  Also, do you think a multi tool would do 
a much better job of getting the wet core removed given the amount of 
access afforded by that slot?


Danny


On 1/31/2017 8:13 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote:


Randy

Of your four pictures only the portlookingaft picture does not show 
any discolouration that appears to be rot.  You should start digging 
out the core to see how far the wet and rot travels from the opening


Mike

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*RANDY via CnC-List

*Sent:* Monday, January 30, 2017 11:15 PM
*To:* cnc-list
*Cc:* RANDY; Dave S
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

I'd really like to thank everyone for all the responses on this.

Went back to the boat today and carefully re-examined the core around 
the chainplate cutouts, and did a bunch of testing - percussion 
testing, weighting the area and looking for deflection, etc.  Put a 
few pictures up at 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTcTV6UlEwMmlqZkk.


I don't think the extent of coring warrants peeling the top skin and 
replacing core material; I think digging out some core around the 
edges, and filling with thickened epoxy, will be enough of an 
improvement and repair.  The deck, especially outboard and downslope 
of the chainplate cutouts, doesn't sound dull and doesn't deflect 
downward.  It seems solid enough.


The chainplates themselves show no signs of corrosion or moisture 
damage.  Only one bolt (lowest inboard starboard) out of 14 showed any 
rust, and it was superficial (nowhere near twisting the head off). 
 I'm fortunate that my boat has had a freshwater life its entire life.


You can see in the pictures I've got a bit more old sealant to clean 
away, but then I think a dig, fill, and re-seal job should suffice. 
 Really appreciate everyone's responses.  Someday I'll need to work up 
the courage to do a peel & re-core job under my starboard aft bow 
pulpit foot - I have a small soft spot there.


Best Regards,

Randy Stafford

S/V Grenadine

C 30-1 #7

Ken Caryl, CO



*From: *"Dave S via CnC-List" >
*To: *"C Stus List" >

*Cc: *"Dave S" >
*Sent: *Monday, January 30, 2017 9:43:00 AM
*Subject: *Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

FWIW, and I agree with much below.  Will assume you are dealing with 
balsa and not plywood as a core. Have repaired both and will share the 
following, YMMV, etc...  Probably way too much info, but:


1) Damp balsa does not mean structurally unsound (yet)

2)  I prefer to remove more rather than less.This allows you a 
large enough area to work, makes it easy to clean/prep the surfaces, 
as well as being certain that you are not building any voids into the 
finished result.   You can also use really thick glass-loaded epoxy 
that simply cannot be injected into a small hole.   As with 
drywall/sheetrock, it is sometimes easier when doing repairs to give 
yourself space to work, and to prep the surfaces.


3) I like the hole saw approach, cutting through one skin only.   
The hole saw also allows you the opportunity to install a structural 
filler piece, well bedded in glass-filled epoxy.  Rather than just 
troweling in the schmutz. you can laminate a sheet of fibreglass into 
a high density layup of the appropriate thickness, (even tapered, or 
curved) then use the same hole saw to cut out a "puck" from that sheet 
and install into the hole. Bulletproof.


4) IMO Working from below is best if you have the space/access, for a 
number of reasons, including the fact that any holes won't 
move.   Working from above can be easier, though the cosmetic 
redemption is harder.


5) Epoxy is available in a range of cure times. "hot in the pot" 
should not be an issue if you pick the right one.  Never had that 
happen, but I have had it get a little warm and further shorten the 
cure time.   (have had polyester resin get pretty hot)


6) To make a patch that feathers on the edges, laminate progressively 
smaller pieces of cloth (alternate mat and cloth with polyester resin, 
I like biaxial stitch mat with epoxy) on a sheet of waxed paper, then 
lift that and stick it onto the wound like a bandaid, peeling off the 
waxed paper.Best is to do this (or any sequential 

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Randy

Of your four pictures only the portlookingaft picture does not show any 
discolouration that appears to be rot.  You should start digging out the core 
to see how far the wet and rot travels from the opening

Mike

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of RANDY via 
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 11:15 PM
To: cnc-list
Cc: RANDY; Dave S
Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

I'd really like to thank everyone for all the responses on this.

Went back to the boat today and carefully re-examined the core around the 
chainplate cutouts, and did a bunch of testing - percussion testing, weighting 
the area and looking for deflection, etc.  Put a few pictures up at 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTcTV6UlEwMmlqZkk.

I don't think the extent of coring warrants peeling the top skin and replacing 
core material; I think digging out some core around the edges, and filling with 
thickened epoxy, will be enough of an improvement and repair.  The deck, 
especially outboard and downslope of the chainplate cutouts, doesn't sound dull 
and doesn't deflect downward.  It seems solid enough.

The chainplates themselves show no signs of corrosion or moisture damage.  Only 
one bolt (lowest inboard starboard) out of 14 showed any rust, and it was 
superficial (nowhere near twisting the head off).  I'm fortunate that my boat 
has had a freshwater life its entire life.

You can see in the pictures I've got a bit more old sealant to clean away, but 
then I think a dig, fill, and re-seal job should suffice.  Really appreciate 
everyone's responses.  Someday I'll need to work up the courage to do a peel & 
re-core job under my starboard aft bow pulpit foot - I have a small soft spot 
there.

Best Regards,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO


From: "Dave S via CnC-List" 
>
To: "C Stus List" >
Cc: "Dave S" >
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 9:43:00 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates


FWIW, and I agree with much below.  Will assume you are dealing with balsa and 
not plywood as a core.   Have repaired both and will share the following, YMMV, 
etc...  Probably way too much info, but:

1)   Damp balsa does not mean structurally unsound (yet)

2)  I prefer to remove more rather than less.This allows you a large enough 
area to work, makes it easy to clean/prep the surfaces, as well as being 
certain that you are not building any voids into the finished result.   You can 
also use really thick glass-loaded epoxy that simply cannot be injected into a 
small hole.   As with drywall/sheetrock, it is sometimes easier when doing 
repairs to give yourself space to work, and to prep the surfaces.

3)  I like the hole saw approach, cutting through one skin only.   The hole saw 
also allows you the opportunity to install a structural filler piece, well 
bedded in glass-filled epoxy.  Rather than just troweling in the schmutz. you 
can laminate a sheet of fibreglass into a high density layup of the appropriate 
thickness, (even tapered, or curved) then use the same hole saw to cut out a 
"puck" from that sheet and install into the hole.  Bulletproof.

4)  IMO Working from below is best if you have the space/access, for a number 
of reasons, including the fact that any holes won't move.   Working from above 
can be easier, though the cosmetic redemption is harder.

5)  Epoxy is available in a range of cure times."hot in the pot" should not 
be an issue if you pick the right one.  Never had that happen, but I have had 
it get a little warm and further shorten the cure time.   (have had polyester 
resin get pretty hot)

6)   To make a patch that feathers on the edges, laminate progressively smaller 
pieces of cloth (alternate mat and cloth with polyester resin, I like biaxial 
stitch mat with epoxy) on a sheet of waxed paper, then lift that and stick it 
onto the wound like a bandaid, peeling off the waxed paper.Best is to do 
this (or any sequential application of epoxy) on top of the previous epoxy 
application while it is at its B stage (gelled but not cured)   Not only is the 
putty still it pliable, but it will not need prep to achieve a good chemical 
bond.  You can not simply epoxy over top of cured epoxy and expect a bond.  
(google "amine blush")

7)  when done,  (but not cured)  you can carefully lay some PE film (or waxed 
paper) over top and smooth.  this can help tame any stray edges and depending 
on the repair, actually functions a bit like a vacuum bag, assisting in 
adhesion to curves.  You can also shape any putty into smooth shapes or radii 
for a more professional result.

8)  Read up on fillers. If you expect to fill space, you don't want the epoxy 
to flow, you need colloidal silica, If you want it to be strong you need to 

Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank Cleaner?

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Why not empty into jerrycans and run in a diesel truck?  Given that the truck 
goes through a lot more fuel it should not hurt the truck

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 9:48 PM
To: C List
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank 
Cleaner?

FYI that engine burns roughly 1 gallon per hour and the fuel tank capacity is 
roughly 40 gallons.  So you're potentially facing a considerable amount of run 
time just to get rid of the old fuel.

After recircing it for the desired time, you might just consider disposing of 
the fuel.  It can usually be disposed of the same as any used motor oil.

I would be torn about wasting all that fuel and would base my decision on how 
bad the results of the recirc were.  I'd also consider how well the engine runs 
on the old fuel and how much you actually have.  A quarter tank (10 gal) of 
fuel is at lot less to dilute out than 3/4 of a tank (30 gal).

For the delivery trip you would be well served by keeping a 5 gallon jerry can 
of diesel and ~10ft of 1/4 inch fuel hose.  If something goes wrong you you can 
plumb a suction from the fresh diesel can.  Just in case.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Jan 30, 2017 8:30 PM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
Out of an abundance of caution, given that the boat I am buying has been 
started, but not substantially run (other than for our survey) for about 5 
years, I would like to be extra-cautious about potential fuel tank 
contamination.

I think that the tank is about half-full.  At the suggestion of one of our 
contributors here, I will patch in a 12v. pump and recirculate the fuel through 
my Racor filter for a number of hours in an attempt to polish the fuel.

That said, do you think I am better off trying to burn off the old fuel as much 
as possible before putting in new (if of course the engine appears to be 
running well), or dillute the old stuff with new?

Finally, does anyone here have experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank 
Cleaner?  While its NOT cheap, I'd rather start off with as clean a fuel system 
as possible.  The reviews seem to be good (and Practical Sailor rated their 
biocide highly), but I don't believe everything I read on the 'net... :)

Thanks in advance!

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank Cleaner?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Josh, thank you for all your detailed responses!

Bruce

Please forgive any typos as this was sent from my iPhone.

> On Jan 31, 2017, at 4:31 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> To get access to the tank you have to remove a few wood screws and then the 
> bottom half of the aft cabin bed will lift off.  The tank is anchord below.  
> 
> I've never had a need to do it but from what I can tell there is no access 
> port in the tank.  There should be 5 penetrations.  A vent hose, a fill hose, 
> a pickup hose, a fuel return hose, and a 5 screw flange for a level sender 
> (~2" diameter).  
> 
> I don't know exactly what the internal construction looks like but, while 
> poking around for my level sender I have hit an obstruction which I can only 
> assume to be a baffle.  This particular baffle is a little starboard of 
> centerline and runs fore and aft.
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 11:43 PM Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> Three responding questions...  
>> 
>> Does anyone know how easy or difficult it might be to get the tank out of a 
>> 37/40+?
>> 
>> Is there an access port?
>> 
>> Is the tank baffled?
>> 
>> Bruce
>> 
>> Please forgive any typos as this was sent from my iPhone.
>> 
>>> On Jan 30, 2017, at 10:44 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> As I recall, most marine diesels recirculate 5-7 times consumption.  Even 
>>> at 1 gph usage that's not much flow back to the tank.  Not nearly enough to 
>>> agitate the tank.
>>> 
>>> A buddy of mine tried to motor his boat to the Gulf Coast in some rough 
>>> seas.  Had to return due to blinding fuel elements.  The local yard did a 
>>> recirculate and clean on his tank.  Next day he tried again in rough seas 
>>> with the same result.
>>> 
>>> If the "pro" doesn't have the right equipment, knowledge and technique, 
>>> you're wasting time and money.
>>> 
>>> FYI, Touche' had been idle for 10+ years when I bought it.  When I dug into 
>>> the fuel system, I didn't just yank the tank and clean it, I REPLACED it 
>>> with a new one.  After repowering with a diesel, Touche' now has an Algae-X 
>>> and a vacuum gauge on the Racor 500.  Fuel issues are one thing I never 
>>> worry about.
>>> 
>>> Dennis C.
>>> 
>>> On Jan 30, 2017 7:39 PM, "Josh Muckley via CnC-List" 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Dennis,
>>> 
>>> I've watched for return flow from the injectors and been quite 
>>> disappointed.  Hardly any and certainly not enough to suggest that it is 
>>> "recirculating" the tank.
>>> 
>>> I hear what you're saying regarding the agitation not being sufficient.  
>>> Its always a question in my mind of just how bad is it in there?  Is 
>>> nothing coming out cause its clean or cause its stuck?
>>> 
>>> Josh Muckley
>>> S/V Sea Hawk
>>> 1989 C 37+
>>> Solomons, MD 
>>> 
>>> On Jan 30, 2017 9:28 PM, "Dennis C. via CnC-List"  
>>> wrote:
>>> I have little faith in recirculating fuel to clean it.  IMHO, if it is not 
>>> strongly agitated, sediments will remain in the corners of the tank.  The 
>>> first encounter with rough seas and you will blind your fuel filter quickly.
>>> 
>>> The best solution is to either remove the tank and clean it.  Second best 
>>> is to drainit, install a fuel compatible access port in the top and clean 
>>> it manually.  Third, have a professional clean it with a high velocity wand 
>>> inserted through the fuel sensor port.
>>> 
>>> If you can't do any of those and choose to recirculate it using the engine, 
>>> install an Algae-X unit ahead of the fuel filter.
>>> 
>>> http://www.diesel-fuels.com/algae-x/magnetic-fuel-conditioning.php
>>> 
>>> Install a vacuum gauge downstream of your fuel filter to give you warning 
>>> when the element is beginning to blind.  If you have a Racor 500, get the 
>>> vacuum gauge that replaces the T-handle.
>>> 
>>> Carry lots of spare fuel filter elements.
>>> 
>>> Dennis C.
>>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>>> Mandeville, LA
>>> 
>>> On Jan 30, 2017 6:30 PM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Out of an abundance of caution, given that the boat I am buying has been 
>>> started, but not substantially run (other than for our survey) for about 5 
>>> years, I would like to be extra-cautious about potential fuel tank 
>>> contamination.
>>> 
>>> I think that the tank is about half-full.  At the suggestion of one of our 
>>> contributors here, I will patch in a 12v. pump and recirculate the fuel 
>>> through my Racor filter for a number of hours in an attempt to polish the 
>>> fuel.
>>> 
>>> That said, do you think I am better off trying to burn off the old fuel as 
>>> much as possible before putting in new (if of course the engine appears to 
>>> be running well), or dillute the old stuff with new?
>>> 
>>> Finally, does anyone here have experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel 

Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank Cleaner?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

To get access to the tank you have to remove a few wood screws and then the
bottom half of the aft cabin bed will lift off.  The tank is anchord below.


I've never had a need to do it but from what I can tell there is no access
port in the tank.  There should be 5 penetrations.  A vent hose, a fill
hose, a pickup hose, a fuel return hose, and a 5 screw flange for a level
sender (~2" diameter).

I don't know exactly what the internal construction looks like but, while
poking around for my level sender I have hit an obstruction which I can
only assume to be a baffle.  This particular baffle is a little starboard
of centerline and runs fore and aft.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD


On Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 11:43 PM Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Three responding questions...
>
> Does anyone know how easy or difficult it might be to get the tank out of
> a 37/40+?
>
> Is there an access port?
>
> Is the tank baffled?
>
> Bruce
>
> Please forgive any typos as this was sent from my iPhone.
>
> On Jan 30, 2017, at 10:44 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> As I recall, most marine diesels recirculate 5-7 times consumption.  Even
> at 1 gph usage that's not much flow back to the tank.  Not nearly enough to
> agitate the tank.
>
> A buddy of mine tried to motor his boat to the Gulf Coast in some rough
> seas.  Had to return due to blinding fuel elements.  The local yard did a
> recirculate and clean on his tank.  Next day he tried again in rough seas
> with the same result.
>
> If the "pro" doesn't have the right equipment, knowledge and technique,
> you're wasting time and money.
>
> FYI, Touche' had been idle for 10+ years when I bought it.  When I dug
> into the fuel system, I didn't just yank the tank and clean it, I REPLACED
> it with a new one.  After repowering with a diesel, Touche' now has an
> Algae-X and a vacuum gauge on the Racor 500.  Fuel issues are one thing I
> never worry about.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Jan 30, 2017 7:39 PM, "Josh Muckley via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Dennis,
>
> I've watched for return flow from the injectors and been quite
> disappointed.  Hardly any and certainly not enough to suggest that it is
> "recirculating" the tank.
>
> I hear what you're saying regarding the agitation not being sufficient.
> Its always a question in my mind of just how bad is it in there?  Is
> nothing coming out cause its clean or cause its stuck?
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Jan 30, 2017 9:28 PM, "Dennis C. via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
> I have little faith in recirculating fuel to clean it.  IMHO, if it is not
> strongly agitated, sediments will remain in the corners of the tank.  The
> first encounter with rough seas and you will blind your fuel filter quickly.
>
> The best solution is to either remove the tank and clean it.  Second best
> is to drainit, install a fuel compatible access port in the top and clean
> it manually.  Third, have a professional clean it with a high velocity wand
> inserted through the fuel sensor port.
>
> If you can't do any of those and choose to recirculate it using the
> engine, install an Algae-X unit ahead of the fuel filter.
>
> http://www.diesel-fuels.com/algae-x/magnetic-fuel-conditioning.php
>
> Install a vacuum gauge downstream of your fuel filter to give you warning
> when the element is beginning to blind.  If you have a Racor 500, get the
> vacuum gauge that replaces the T-handle.
>
> Carry lots of spare fuel filter elements.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> On Jan 30, 2017 6:30 PM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Out of an abundance of caution, given that the boat I am buying has been
> started, but not substantially run (other than for our survey) for about 5
> years, I would like to be extra-cautious about potential fuel tank
> contamination.
>
> I think that the tank is about half-full.  At the suggestion of one of our
> contributors here, I will patch in a 12v. pump and recirculate the fuel
> through my Racor filter for a number of hours in an attempt to polish the
> fuel.
>
> That said, do you think I am better off trying to burn off the old fuel as
> much as possible before putting in new (if of course the engine appears to
> be running well), or dillute the old stuff with new?
>
> Finally, does anyone here have experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel
> Tank Cleaner?  While its NOT cheap, I'd rather start off with as clean a
> fuel system as possible.  The reviews seem to be good (and Practical Sailor
> rated their biocide highly), but I don't believe everything I read on the
> 'net... :)
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Bruce Whitmore
>
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>
> ___
>
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