Re: Stus-List C Polars Again
Thank you very much Lee for sharing. Can you elaborate on the source of the data and your personal experience using it compared to real world in pure speed and VMG? Thanks! Bruno lachance BEcassine, 33 mkII 1987 New Richmond,Qc Envoyé de mon iPad > Le 28 sept. 2016 à 00:12, Lee Rosenbaum via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > a écrit : > > Attached are the polars for a C 33 MKII > > Regards, > Lee Rosenbaum > Kookaburra > C 33-2 > Kenosha, WI > > -Original Message- > Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2016 19:23:32 + (UTC) > From: John McKay <jmckay...@yahoo.ca> > To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > Subject: Re: Stus-List C Polars Again > Message-ID: <1607791233.409403.1475004212...@mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Does anyone have the polars for a C 33 MK II? > John on Enterprise > > > > <C Polars-Interpolated.xlsx> > ___ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like > what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions > are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List C Polars Again
Never mind Lee, I found the excel attachment. Thanks. Mike Amirault C Lovely Cruise SCSC___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List C Polars Again
Lee, would you kindly email the C polars to me as well? Thanks. Mike Amirault C Lovely Cruise SMSC___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List C Polars Again
Attached are the polars for a C 33 MKII Regards, Lee Rosenbaum Kookaburra C 33-2 Kenosha, WI -Original Message- Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2016 19:23:32 + (UTC) From: John McKay <jmckay...@yahoo.ca> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List C Polars Again Message-ID: <1607791233.409403.1475004212...@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Does anyone have the polars for a C 33 MK II? John on Enterprise C Polars-Interpolated.xlsx Description: MS-Excel 2007 spreadsheet ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List C Polars Again
I sail on a reservoir in Colorado. It has neither tides nor currents nor seas :) Except for powerboat wake, which makes the lake choppy on calm days. And the occasional wind-driven whitecapped waves when the breeze is really up. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Jeffrey Nelson via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To: "cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: "Jeffrey Nelson" <jhnelso...@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 5:07:55 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List C Polars Again Perfect. Btw, depending on where you sail, your Speed over water won't ever match. By doing the math between the two you can determine how much current you are in and with some calculations how much that is setting you off course. Food for thought. On 9/27/2016 7:46 PM, RANDY wrote: Speed over ground - the SailTimer App uses GPS to calculate speed. And it's showing about 0.75 - 1.0 knots faster than my onboard transducer-based speed instrument. Since I trust GPS more, I'm now calibrating the onboard instrument to match the speed shown by the app. I scrubbed my bottom a few weeks ago but couldn't see to get the keel (murky marina water), so I'm sure it's not perfectly clean. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Jeffrey Nelson via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To: "cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: "Jeffrey Nelson" <jhnelso...@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 3:42:46 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List C Polars Again Add a dirty bottom at this time of year and they'd work for my boat too. :-) Are you using speed over ground or speed over water for your baseline speed? -- Cheers, Jeff Nelson Muir Caileag C 30 Armdale Y.C. Halifax On 9/27/2016 6:24 PM, RANDY via CnC-List wrote: Those are a reasonable approximation but they're from a 30E, the European edition of the 30, which has a different design from my MK I (e.g. reverse transom, different interior, probably different displacement), and who knows what sails and what kind of prop etc. That boat is apparently fastest on a shallow broad reach, probably under spinnaker. Assuming I can get an accurate set of polars for my boat this year, they'll still show lower speeds than the boat's true potential, because I have old tired sails including an undersized main, and I have a fixed prop. Even so I'd like to get an accurate set of polars as a baseline to compare against when I have new sails and a folding prop, hopefully next year. Then hopefully I can sail the boat to its true speed potential. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Bill Coleman" <colt...@verizon.net> To: "RANDY" <randy.staff...@comcast.net> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 1:26:24 PM Subject: RE: Stus-List C Polars Again Can’t you just use the polars given on that site? They have a C 30 Wind velocity 6kts 8kts 10kts 12kts 14kts 16kts 20kts Beat angles 45.5° 43.7° 43.3° 43.7° 43° 41.3° 40.5° Beat VMG 2.55 3.08 3.46 3.8 4.14 4.39 4.53 52° 3.98 4.73 5.31 5.82 6.15 6.35 6.5 60° 4.26 5.02 5.65 6.08 6.34 6.52 6.72 75° 4.51 5.3 5.94 6.29 6.49 6.67 7.02 90° 4.64 5.61 6.24 6.55 6.71 6.8 7.04 110° 4.77 5.75 6.31 6.63 6.93 7.23 7.53 120° 4.65 5.63 6.24 6.57 6.86 7.18 7.75 135° 4.27 5.19 5.97 6.39 6.67 6.96 7.56 150° 3.68 4.6 5.39 6.04 6.4 6.66 7.21 Run VMG 3.19 3.99 4.69 5.33 5.92 6.31 6.83 Gybe angles 148.1° 152.1° 153.5° 159.8° 180° 180° 180° Right? Regards, Bill Coleman ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! -- Boat_Sig Cheers, Jeff Nelson Muir Caileag C 30 Armdale Y.C. Halifax ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List C Polars Again
Perfect.
Btw, depending on where you sail, your Speed over water won't ever
match. By doing the math between the two you can determine
how much current you are in and with some calculations how much that is
setting you off course. Food for thought.
On 9/27/2016 7:46 PM, RANDY wrote:
Speed over ground - the SailTimer App uses GPS to calculate speed.
And it's showing about 0.75 - 1.0 knots faster than my onboard
transducer-based speed instrument. Since I trust GPS more, I'm now
calibrating the onboard instrument to match the speed shown by the app.
I scrubbed my bottom a few weeks ago but couldn't see to get the keel
(murky marina water), so I'm sure it's not perfectly clean.
Cheers,
Randy
*From: *"Jeffrey Nelson via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
*To: *"cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
*Cc: *"Jeffrey Nelson" <jhnelso...@gmail.com>
*Sent: *Tuesday, September 27, 2016 3:42:46 PM
*Subject: *Re: Stus-List C Polars Again
Add a dirty bottom at this time of year and they'd work for my boat
too. :-)
Are you using speed over ground or speed over water for your baseline
speed?
--
Cheers,
Jeff Nelson
Muir Caileag
C 30
Armdale Y.C.
Halifax
On 9/27/2016 6:24 PM, RANDY via CnC-List wrote:
Those are a reasonable approximation but they're from a 30E, the
European edition of the 30, which has a different design from my
MK I (e.g. reverse transom, different interior, probably different
displacement), and who knows what sails and what kind of prop etc.
That boat is apparently fastest on a shallow broad reach,
probably under spinnaker.
Assuming I can get an accurate set of polars for my boat this
year, they'll still show lower speeds than the boat's true
potential, because I have old tired sails including an undersized
main, and I have a fixed prop. Even so I'd like to get an
accurate set of polars as a baseline to compare against when I
have new sails and a folding prop, hopefully next year. Then
hopefully I can sail the boat to its true speed potential.
Cheers,
Randy
*From: *"Bill Coleman" <colt...@verizon.net>
*To: *"RANDY" <randy.staff...@comcast.net>
*Sent: *Tuesday, September 27, 2016 1:26:24 PM
*Subject: *RE: Stus-List C Polars Again
Can’t you just use the polars given on that site? They have a C 30
*Wind velocity*
*6kts*
*8kts*
*10kts*
*12kts*
*14kts*
*16kts*
*20kts*
Beat angles
45.5°
43.7°
43.3°
43.7°
43°
41.3°
40.5°
Beat VMG
2.55
3.08
3.46
3.8
4.14
4.39
4.53
52°
3.98
4.73
5.31
5.82
6.15
6.35
6.5
60°
4.26
5.02
5.65
6.08
6.34
6.52
6.72
75°
4.51
5.3
5.94
6.29
6.49
6.67
7.02
90°
4.64
5.61
6.24
6.55
6.71
6.8
7.04
110°
4.77
5.75
6.31
6.63
6.93
7.23
7.53
120°
4.65
5.63
6.24
6.57
6.86
7.18
7.75
135°
4.27
5.19
5.97
6.39
6.67
6.96
7.56
150°
3.68
4.6
5.39
6.04
6.4
6.66
7.21
Run VMG
3.19
3.99
4.69
5.33
5.92
6.31
6.83
Gybe angles
148.1°
152.1°
153.5°
159.8°
180°
180°
180°
Right?
Regards,
Bill Coleman
___
This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If
you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
Contributions are greatly appreciated!
--
Boat_Sig Cheers,
Jeff Nelson
Muir Caileag
C 30
Armdale Y.C.
Halifax
Re: Stus-List C Polars Again
Speed over ground - the SailTimer App uses GPS to calculate speed. And it's showing about 0.75 - 1.0 knots faster than my onboard transducer-based speed instrument. Since I trust GPS more, I'm now calibrating the onboard instrument to match the speed shown by the app. I scrubbed my bottom a few weeks ago but couldn't see to get the keel (murky marina water), so I'm sure it's not perfectly clean. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Jeffrey Nelson via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To: "cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: "Jeffrey Nelson" <jhnelso...@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 3:42:46 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List C Polars Again Add a dirty bottom at this time of year and they'd work for my boat too. :-) Are you using speed over ground or speed over water for your baseline speed? -- Cheers, Jeff Nelson Muir Caileag C 30 Armdale Y.C. Halifax On 9/27/2016 6:24 PM, RANDY via CnC-List wrote: Those are a reasonable approximation but they're from a 30E, the European edition of the 30, which has a different design from my MK I (e.g. reverse transom, different interior, probably different displacement), and who knows what sails and what kind of prop etc. That boat is apparently fastest on a shallow broad reach, probably under spinnaker. Assuming I can get an accurate set of polars for my boat this year, they'll still show lower speeds than the boat's true potential, because I have old tired sails including an undersized main, and I have a fixed prop. Even so I'd like to get an accurate set of polars as a baseline to compare against when I have new sails and a folding prop, hopefully next year. Then hopefully I can sail the boat to its true speed potential. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Bill Coleman" <colt...@verizon.net> To: "RANDY" <randy.staff...@comcast.net> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 1:26:24 PM Subject: RE: Stus-List C Polars Again Can’t you just use the polars given on that site? They have a C 30 Wind velocity 6kts 8kts 10kts 12kts 14kts 16kts 20kts Beat angles 45.5° 43.7° 43.3° 43.7° 43° 41.3° 40.5° Beat VMG 2.55 3.08 3.46 3.8 4.14 4.39 4.53 52° 3.98 4.73 5.31 5.82 6.15 6.35 6.5 60° 4.26 5.02 5.65 6.08 6.34 6.52 6.72 75° 4.51 5.3 5.94 6.29 6.49 6.67 7.02 90° 4.64 5.61 6.24 6.55 6.71 6.8 7.04 110° 4.77 5.75 6.31 6.63 6.93 7.23 7.53 120° 4.65 5.63 6.24 6.57 6.86 7.18 7.75 135° 4.27 5.19 5.97 6.39 6.67 6.96 7.56 150° 3.68 4.6 5.39 6.04 6.4 6.66 7.21 Run VMG 3.19 3.99 4.69 5.33 5.92 6.31 6.83 Gybe angles 148.1° 152.1° 153.5° 159.8° 180° 180° 180° Right? Regards, Bill Coleman ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List C Polars Again
Add a dirty bottom at this time of year and they'd work for my boat too. :-) Are you using speed over ground or speed over water for your baseline speed? -- Cheers, Jeff Nelson Muir Caileag C 30 Armdale Y.C. Halifax On 9/27/2016 6:24 PM, RANDY via CnC-List wrote: Those are a reasonable approximation but they're from a 30E, the European edition of the 30, which has a different design from my MK I (e.g. reverse transom, different interior, probably different displacement), and who knows what sails and what kind of prop etc. That boat is apparently fastest on a shallow broad reach, probably under spinnaker. Assuming I can get an accurate set of polars for my boat this year, they'll still show lower speeds than the boat's true potential, because I have old tired sails including an undersized main, and I have a fixed prop. Even so I'd like to get an accurate set of polars as a baseline to compare against when I have new sails and a folding prop, hopefully next year. Then hopefully I can sail the boat to its true speed potential. Cheers, Randy *From: *"Bill Coleman" <colt...@verizon.net> *To: *"RANDY" <randy.staff...@comcast.net> *Sent: *Tuesday, September 27, 2016 1:26:24 PM *Subject: *RE: Stus-List C Polars Again Can’t you just use the polars given on that site? They have a C 30 *Wind velocity* *6kts* *8kts* *10kts* *12kts* *14kts* *16kts* *20kts* Beat angles 45.5° 43.7° 43.3° 43.7° 43° 41.3° 40.5° Beat VMG 2.55 3.08 3.46 3.8 4.14 4.39 4.53 52° 3.98 4.73 5.31 5.82 6.15 6.35 6.5 60° 4.26 5.02 5.65 6.08 6.34 6.52 6.72 75° 4.51 5.3 5.94 6.29 6.49 6.67 7.02 90° 4.64 5.61 6.24 6.55 6.71 6.8 7.04 110° 4.77 5.75 6.31 6.63 6.93 7.23 7.53 120° 4.65 5.63 6.24 6.57 6.86 7.18 7.75 135° 4.27 5.19 5.97 6.39 6.67 6.96 7.56 150° 3.68 4.6 5.39 6.04 6.4 6.66 7.21 Run VMG 3.19 3.99 4.69 5.33 5.92 6.31 6.83 Gybe angles 148.1° 152.1° 153.5° 159.8° 180° 180° 180° Right? Regards, Bill Coleman ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List C Polars Again
Those are a reasonable approximation but they're from a 30E, the European edition of the 30, which has a different design from my MK I (e.g. reverse transom, different interior, probably different displacement), and who knows what sails and what kind of prop etc. That boat is apparently fastest on a shallow broad reach, probably under spinnaker. Assuming I can get an accurate set of polars for my boat this year, they'll still show lower speeds than the boat's true potential, because I have old tired sails including an undersized main, and I have a fixed prop. Even so I'd like to get an accurate set of polars as a baseline to compare against when I have new sails and a folding prop, hopefully next year. Then hopefully I can sail the boat to its true speed potential. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Bill Coleman" <colt...@verizon.net> To: "RANDY" <randy.staff...@comcast.net> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 1:26:24 PM Subject: RE: Stus-List C Polars Again Can’t you just use the polars given on that site? They have a C 30 Wind velocity 6kts 8kts 10kts 12kts 14kts 16kts 20kts Beat angles 45.5° 43.7° 43.3° 43.7° 43° 41.3° 40.5° Beat VMG 2.55 3.08 3.46 3.8 4.14 4.39 4.53 52° 3.98 4.73 5.31 5.82 6.15 6.35 6.5 60° 4.26 5.02 5.65 6.08 6.34 6.52 6.72 75° 4.51 5.3 5.94 6.29 6.49 6.67 7.02 90° 4.64 5.61 6.24 6.55 6.71 6.8 7.04 110° 4.77 5.75 6.31 6.63 6.93 7.23 7.53 120° 4.65 5.63 6.24 6.57 6.86 7.18 7.75 135° 4.27 5.19 5.97 6.39 6.67 6.96 7.56 150° 3.68 4.6 5.39 6.04 6.4 6.66 7.21 Run VMG 3.19 3.99 4.69 5.33 5.92 6.31 6.83 Gybe angles 148.1° 152.1° 153.5° 159.8° 180° 180° 180° Right? Regards, Bill Coleman From: RANDY [mailto:randy.staff...@comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 12:57 PM To: cnc-list Cc: Bill Coleman Subject: Re: Stus-List C Polars Again No problem Bill. Since we're back to this, I've appended the polar data (in CSV format) I got from my SailTimer Wind Instrument and SailTimer App this past weekend, as promised. Needless to say, I think this data is wrong, for reasons discussed below. For example it shows I can reach hull speed close-hauled in 9 knots of wind, but I'm slower than that on beam reach in the same wind. I don't think either of those things is true. ,TWS TWA,3,6,9,12,15,18,21 22.5,0.5,1.2,1.5,1.5,1.5,1.5,1.5 45.0,2.0,5.0,6.7,6.7,6.7,6.7,6.7 67.5,1.6,4.1,5.5,5.5,5.5,5.5,5.5 90.0,1.6,4.1,5.4,5.4,5.4,5.4,5.4 112.5,2.7,4.0,5.4,5.4,5.4,5.4,5.4 135.0,1.5,3.8,5.0,5.0,5.0,5.0,5.0 157.5,1.3,3.3,4.4,4.4,4.4,4.4,4.4 180.0,2.6,3.0,4.0,4.0,4.0,4.0,4.0 Now, why is this data wrong. First, it was the first time I'd used the SailTimer App in anger and it wasn't a controlled experiment in polar learning (the app lets you toggle polar learning on and off, and I wasn't careful about when it was on). Second, this data was collected in a variety of wind conditions and sail configurations. Friday afternoon it was blowing 20 gusting 35 and I was sailing under double-reefed main only because my mom was aboard with only one other of my regular crew and they were nervous in that wind strength. Saturday and Sunday I was in a two-day regatta in very light and fickle air under full main, 155% genoa, and sometimes even a staysail. Because I was preoccupied with racing and adjusting sails constantly, I wasn't paying attention to the app and accurate polar learning. The app must have some kind of algorithm to interpolate / extrapolate boat speeds in wind speeds and angles that it hasn't observed, because I can guarantee I didn't hit every combination of TWS/TWA in the above data over the weekend. But this gives an example of what the instrument and app can do. Before the season ends, I'd like to get back out and do a controlled experiment - a new data set under main and 155 in say 12 knots, through every TWA, toggling learning on and off at the right times. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Bill Coleman via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To: "cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: "Bill Coleman" <colt...@verizon.net> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 8:33:06 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List C Polars Again Thanks Randy, That is a sweet page, Thanks for Sharing. I was able to make a .csv and
Re: Stus-List C Polars Again
Does anyone have the polars for a C 33 MK II?
John on Enterprise
On Tuesday, September 27, 2016 12:58 PM, RANDY via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
No problem Bill.
Since we're back to this, I've appended the polar data (in CSV format) I got
from my SailTimer Wind Instrument and SailTimer App this past weekend, as
promised. Needless to say, I think this data is wrong, for reasons discussed
below. For example it shows I can reach hull speed close-hauled in 9 knots of
wind, but I'm slower than that on beam reach in the same wind. I don't think
either of those things is true.
,TWS
TWA,3,6,9,12,15,18,21
22.5,0.5,1.2,1.5,1.5,1.5,1.5,1.5
45.0,2.0,5.0,6.7,6.7,6.7,6.7,6.7
67.5,1.6,4.1,5.5,5.5,5.5,5.5,5.5
90.0,1.6,4.1,5.4,5.4,5.4,5.4,5.4
112.5,2.7,4.0,5.4,5.4,5.4,5.4,5.4
135.0,1.5,3.8,5.0,5.0,5.0,5.0,5.0
157.5,1.3,3.3,4.4,4.4,4.4,4.4,4.4
180.0,2.6,3.0,4.0,4.0,4.0,4.0,4.0
Now, why is this data wrong. First, it was the first time I'd used the
SailTimer App in anger and it wasn't a controlled experiment in polar learning
(the app lets you toggle polar learning on and off, and I wasn't careful about
when it was on). Second, this data was collected in a variety of wind
conditions and sail configurations. Friday afternoon it was blowing 20 gusting
35 and I was sailing under double-reefed main only because my mom was aboard
with only one other of my regular crew and they were nervous in that wind
strength. Saturday and Sunday I was in a two-day regatta in very light and
fickle air under full main, 155% genoa, and sometimes even a staysail. Because
I was preoccupied with racing and adjusting sails constantly, I wasn't paying
attention to the app and accurate polar learning.
The app must have some kind of algorithm to interpolate / extrapolate boat
speeds in wind speeds and angles that it hasn't observed, because I can
guarantee I didn't hit every combination of TWS/TWA in the above data over the
weekend. But this gives an example of what the instrument and app can do.
Before the season ends, I'd like to get back out and do a controlled experiment
- a new data set under main and 155 in say 12 knots, through every TWA,
toggling learning on and off at the right times.
Cheers,Randy
From: "Bill Coleman via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: "cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: "Bill Coleman" <colt...@verizon.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 8:33:06 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List C Polars Again
#yiv4349699578 #yiv4349699578 _filtered #yiv4349699578 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6
3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv4349699578 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3
2 4;} _filtered #yiv4349699578 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2
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{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4349699578 a:link,
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{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4349699578 a:visited, #yiv4349699578
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p.yiv4349699578MsoAcetate, #yiv4349699578 li.yiv4349699578MsoAcetate,
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{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv4349699578
span.yiv4349699578EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv4349699578
span.yiv4349699578BalloonTextChar {}#yiv4349699578 .yiv4349699578MsoChpDefault
{font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv4349699578 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in
1.0in;}#yiv4349699578 div.yiv4349699578Section1 {}#yiv4349699578 Thanks Randy,
That is a sweet page, Thanks for Sharing.I was able to make a .csv and import
it into the e-95, (I usedthe C Polars). Unfortunately it will probably be
next spring B4 I seewhat it does for my Dynamic Vectors/Laylines. Bill
ColemanC 39 Erie, PA From: CnC-List[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On
Behalf Of RANDY via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 12:28 PM
To: cnc-list
Cc: RANDY
Subject: Stus-List C Polars Again Listers- Justwanted to share a site I saw
with polars for a few different C:
http://jieter.github.io/orc-data/site/ Ifyou look at the list of boats in the
left-hand column (or search for"C" on the page), you'll see the following
models:*C 30 (this is the new one-design version, I can tell from the boat
speedsdownwind - it planes :)*C 30E (this is the European edition of the C
30, apparently built& sold 1977-1982)*C 37*C 38*C 110*C 115Justclick on
one of those boats and you'll see its polar diagram and polar table. I realize
that polars are very boat-specific and sail-specific,but at least here are some
data points. For example the other week I tooka couple hundred pounds of stuff
off my boat, emptied the tanks, and cleanedthe bottom, and I think it made a
difference in light air. But my sailsare old and tired, so I know my boat's
polars will
Re: Stus-List C Polars Again
No problem Bill. Since we're back to this, I've appended the polar data (in CSV format) I got from my SailTimer Wind Instrument and SailTimer App this past weekend, as promised. Needless to say, I think this data is wrong, for reasons discussed below. For example it shows I can reach hull speed close-hauled in 9 knots of wind, but I'm slower than that on beam reach in the same wind. I don't think either of those things is true. ,TWS TWA,3,6,9,12,15,18,21 22.5,0.5,1.2,1.5,1.5,1.5,1.5,1.5 45.0,2.0,5.0,6.7,6.7,6.7,6.7,6.7 67.5,1.6,4.1,5.5,5.5,5.5,5.5,5.5 90.0,1.6,4.1,5.4,5.4,5.4,5.4,5.4 112.5,2.7,4.0,5.4,5.4,5.4,5.4,5.4 135.0,1.5,3.8,5.0,5.0,5.0,5.0,5.0 157.5,1.3,3.3,4.4,4.4,4.4,4.4,4.4 180.0,2.6,3.0,4.0,4.0,4.0,4.0,4.0 Now, why is this data wrong. First, it was the first time I'd used the SailTimer App in anger and it wasn't a controlled experiment in polar learning (the app lets you toggle polar learning on and off, and I wasn't careful about when it was on). Second, this data was collected in a variety of wind conditions and sail configurations. Friday afternoon it was blowing 20 gusting 35 and I was sailing under double-reefed main only because my mom was aboard with only one other of my regular crew and they were nervous in that wind strength. Saturday and Sunday I was in a two-day regatta in very light and fickle air under full main, 155% genoa, and sometimes even a staysail. Because I was preoccupied with racing and adjusting sails constantly, I wasn't paying attention to the app and accurate polar learning. The app must have some kind of algorithm to interpolate / extrapolate boat speeds in wind speeds and angles that it hasn't observed, because I can guarantee I didn't hit every combination of TWS/TWA in the above data over the weekend. But this gives an example of what the instrument and app can do. Before the season ends, I'd like to get back out and do a controlled experiment - a new data set under main and 155 in say 12 knots, through every TWA, toggling learning on and off at the right times. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Bill Coleman via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To: "cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: "Bill Coleman" <colt...@verizon.net> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 8:33:06 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List C Polars Again Thanks Randy, That is a sweet page, Thanks for Sharing. I was able to make a .csv and import it into the e-95, (I used the C Polars). Unfortunately it will probably be next spring B4 I see what it does for my Dynamic Vectors/Laylines. Bill Coleman C 39 Erie, PA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of RANDY via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 12:28 PM To: cnc-list Cc: RANDY Subject: Stus-List C Polars Again Listers- Just wanted to share a site I saw with polars for a few different C models: http://jieter.github.io/orc-data/site/ If you look at the list of boats in the left-hand column (or search for "C" on the page), you'll see the following models: * C 30 (this is the new one-design version, I can tell from the boat speeds downwind - it planes :) * C 30E (this is the European edition of the C 30, apparently built & sold 1977-1982) * C 37 * C 38 * C 110 * C 115 Just click on one of those boats and you'll see its polar diagram and polar table. I realize that polars are very boat-specific and sail-specific, but at least here are some data points. For example the other week I took a couple hundred pounds of stuff off my boat, emptied the tanks, and cleaned the bottom, and I think it made a difference in light air. But my sails are old and tired, so I know my boat's polars will change again when I get new sails and a folding prop. For us software developers on the list, it almost looks like this guy @Jietermanis might have github-hosted software to create polar diagrams from user-supplied polar table CSVs. I've tweeted him for more information. Last night I got my SailTimer Wind Instrument installed at the masthead, so when I go out tomorrow afternoon the SailTimer App will be able to learn one polar curve for my boat, assuming I'm optimally trimmed on all points of sail. The wind is now forecast to be blowing 15 gusting 20, so hopefully I can get polar data with the same sails I race under (full main and 155 genoa, no spinnaker). If the wind gets much stronger I might have to reduce sail, so the polar data wouldn't be representative of my normal racing configuration. Best Regards, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated
Re: Stus-List C Polars Again
Thanks Randy, That is a sweet page, Thanks for Sharing. I was able to make a .csv and import it into the e-95, (I used the C Polars). Unfortunately it will probably be next spring B4 I see what it does for my Dynamic Vectors/Laylines. Bill Coleman C 39 Erie, PAanimated_favicon1 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of RANDY via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 12:28 PM To: cnc-list Cc: RANDY Subject: Stus-List C Polars Again Listers- Just wanted to share a site I saw with polars for a few different C models: http://jieter.github.io/orc-data/site/ If you look at the list of boats in the left-hand column (or search for "C" on the page), you'll see the following models: * C 30 (this is the new one-design version, I can tell from the boat speeds downwind - it planes :) * C 30E (this is the European edition of the C 30, apparently built & sold 1977-1982) * C 37 * C 38 * C 110 * C 115 Just click on one of those boats and you'll see its polar diagram and polar table. I realize that polars are very boat-specific and sail-specific, but at least here are some data points. For example the other week I took a couple hundred pounds of stuff off my boat, emptied the tanks, and cleaned the bottom, and I think it made a difference in light air. But my sails are old and tired, so I know my boat's polars will change again when I get new sails and a folding prop. For us software developers on the list, it almost looks like this guy @Jietermanis might have github-hosted software to create polar diagrams from user-supplied polar table CSVs. I've tweeted him for more information. Last night I got my SailTimer Wind Instrument installed at the masthead, so when I go out tomorrow afternoon the SailTimer App will be able to learn one polar curve for my boat, assuming I'm optimally trimmed on all points of sail. The wind is now forecast to be blowing 15 gusting 20, so hopefully I can get polar data with the same sails I race under (full main and 155 genoa, no spinnaker). If the wind gets much stronger I might have to reduce sail, so the polar data wouldn't be representative of my normal racing configuration. Best Regards, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List C Polars Again
I would be interested in your data points as well. I have a 155 on Penniless, but change down (usually) before I get the rail in the water. I have a number 2 which is about 140%, and I find the boat sails just as well with it, without the drama. As we are in a light wind area, maybe I can provide some data as well - I have a wind instrument, so can provide speed (from GPS) and apparent wind. I cannot seem to get my in-the-water speed wheel to work in the water, but it works fine when not installed. Gary #593 On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 20:33:18 + (UTC) RANDY via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: Hi Ron, I'll happily send you the data I get from the SailTimer App. I'm excited to see it; it will be the first time I've had wind instrumentation on the boat. I know I can carry full sail - I had full main and 155 up in 30 kts. earlier this year, and my genoa tore before I could get a rail in the water :) But I will have my mother on board tomorrow, so I'll have to judge how much sail to carry based on her comfort level. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To: "cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: "Ronald B. Frerker" <rbfrer...@yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 1:37:38 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List C Polars Again I'd be interested in your data since I have a '73 edition of the 30. I don't have the polars, just the IMS tables from the Chi-Mac IMS registration from 25-30yrs ago. BTW, you should be able to carry the 155 with no problem at 15 gusting 20. I carry a 160 in those conditions. I pinch up a bit over my normal keeping the inside telltales lifting straight up and slight twist at the top, the traveler down again with a little twist and carry a bubble in the main, sometimes up to 50% of the main. As long as the rail isn't in the water, it should be fine. And it will be a really fun ride. Ron Wild Cheri C 30-1 STL From: RANDY via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: RANDY <randy.staff...@comcast.net> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 11:28 AM Subject: Stus-List C Polars Again Listers- Just wanted to share a site I saw with polars for a few different C models: http://jieter.github.io/orc-data/site/ If you look at the list of boats in the left-hand column (or search for "C" on the page), you'll see the following models: * C 30 (this is the new one-design version, I can tell from the boat speeds downwind - it planes :) * C 30E (this is the European edition of the C 30, apparently built & sold 1977-1982) * C 37 * C 38 * C 110 * C 115 Just click on one of those boats and you'll see its polar diagram and polar table. I realize that polars are very boat-specific and sail-specific, but at least here are some data points. For example the other week I took a couple hundred pounds of stuff off my boat, emptied the tanks, and cleaned the bottom, and I think it made a difference in light air. But my sails are old and tired, so I know my boat's polars will change again when I get new sails and a folding prop. For us software developers on the list, it almost looks like this guy @Jietermanis might have github-hosted software to create polar diagrams from user-supplied polar table CSVs. I've tweeted him for more information. Last night I got my SailTimer Wind Instrument installed at the masthead, so when I go out tomorrow afternoon the SailTimer App will be able to learn one polar curve for my boat, assuming I'm optimally trimmed on all points of sail. The wind is now forecast to be blowing 15 gusting 20, so hopefully I can get polar data with the same sails I race under (full main and 155 genoa, no spinnaker). If the wind gets much stronger I might have to reduce sail, so the polar data wouldn't be representative of my normal racing configuration. Best Regards, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List C Polars Again
Hi Ron, I'll happily send you the data I get from the SailTimer App. I'm excited to see it; it will be the first time I've had wind instrumentation on the boat. I know I can carry full sail - I had full main and 155 up in 30 kts. earlier this year, and my genoa tore before I could get a rail in the water :) But I will have my mother on board tomorrow, so I'll have to judge how much sail to carry based on her comfort level. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To: "cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: "Ronald B. Frerker" <rbfrer...@yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 1:37:38 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List C Polars Again I'd be interested in your data since I have a '73 edition of the 30. I don't have the polars, just the IMS tables from the Chi-Mac IMS registration from 25-30yrs ago. BTW, you should be able to carry the 155 with no problem at 15 gusting 20. I carry a 160 in those conditions. I pinch up a bit over my normal keeping the inside telltales lifting straight up and slight twist at the top, the traveler down again with a little twist and carry a bubble in the main, sometimes up to 50% of the main. As long as the rail isn't in the water, it should be fine. And it will be a really fun ride. Ron Wild Cheri C 30-1 STL From: RANDY via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: RANDY <randy.staff...@comcast.net> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 11:28 AM Subject: Stus-List C Polars Again Listers- Just wanted to share a site I saw with polars for a few different C models: http://jieter.github.io/orc-data/site/ If you look at the list of boats in the left-hand column (or search for "C" on the page), you'll see the following models: * C 30 (this is the new one-design version, I can tell from the boat speeds downwind - it planes :) * C 30E (this is the European edition of the C 30, apparently built & sold 1977-1982) * C 37 * C 38 * C 110 * C 115 Just click on one of those boats and you'll see its polar diagram and polar table. I realize that polars are very boat-specific and sail-specific, but at least here are some data points. For example the other week I took a couple hundred pounds of stuff off my boat, emptied the tanks, and cleaned the bottom, and I think it made a difference in light air. But my sails are old and tired, so I know my boat's polars will change again when I get new sails and a folding prop. For us software developers on the list, it almost looks like this guy @Jietermanis might have github-hosted software to create polar diagrams from user-supplied polar table CSVs. I've tweeted him for more information. Last night I got my SailTimer Wind Instrument installed at the masthead, so when I go out tomorrow afternoon the SailTimer App will be able to learn one polar curve for my boat, assuming I'm optimally trimmed on all points of sail. The wind is now forecast to be blowing 15 gusting 20, so hopefully I can get polar data with the same sails I race under (full main and 155 genoa, no spinnaker). If the wind gets much stronger I might have to reduce sail, so the polar data wouldn't be representative of my normal racing configuration. Best Regards, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List C Polars Again
I'd be interested in your data since I have a '73 edition of the 30. I don't have the polars, just the IMS tables from the Chi-Mac IMS registration from 25-30yrs ago.BTW, you should be able to carry the 155 with no problem at 15 gusting 20. I carry a 160 in those conditions.I pinch up a bit over my normal keeping the inside telltales lifting straight up and slight twist at the top, the traveler down again with a little twist and carry a bubble in the main, sometimes up to 50% of the main. As long as the rail isn't in the water, it should be fine.And it will be a really fun ride.RonWild CheriC 30-1STL From: RANDY via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: RANDY <randy.staff...@comcast.net> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 11:28 AM Subject: Stus-List C Polars Again Listers- Just wanted to share a site I saw with polars for a few different C models: http://jieter.github.io/orc-data/site/ If you look at the list of boats in the left-hand column (or search for "C" on the page), you'll see the following models:* C 30 (this is the new one-design version, I can tell from the boat speeds downwind - it planes :)* C 30E (this is the European edition of the C 30, apparently built & sold 1977-1982)* C 37* C 38* C 110* C 115Just click on one of those boats and you'll see its polar diagram and polar table. I realize that polars are very boat-specific and sail-specific, but at least here are some data points. For example the other week I took a couple hundred pounds of stuff off my boat, emptied the tanks, and cleaned the bottom, and I think it made a difference in light air. But my sails are old and tired, so I know my boat's polars will change again when I get new sails and a folding prop. For us software developers on the list, it almost looks like this guy @Jietermanis might have github-hosted software to create polar diagrams from user-supplied polar table CSVs. I've tweeted him for more information. Last night I got my SailTimer Wind Instrument installed at the masthead, so when I go out tomorrow afternoon the SailTimer App will be able to learn one polar curve for my boat, assuming I'm optimally trimmed on all points of sail. The wind is now forecast to be blowing 15 gusting 20, so hopefully I can get polar data with the same sails I race under (full main and 155 genoa, no spinnaker). If the wind gets much stronger I might have to reduce sail, so the polar data wouldn't be representative of my normal racing configuration. Best Regards,Randy StaffordS/V GrenadineC 30-1 #7Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List C Polars Again
Listers- Just wanted to share a site I saw with polars for a few different C models: http://jieter.github.io/orc-data/site/ If you look at the list of boats in the left-hand column (or search for "C" on the page), you'll see the following models: * C 30 (this is the new one-design version, I can tell from the boat speeds downwind - it planes :) * C 30E (this is the European edition of the C 30, apparently built & sold 1977-1982) * C 37 * C 38 * C 110 * C 115 Just click on one of those boats and you'll see its polar diagram and polar table. I realize that polars are very boat-specific and sail-specific, but at least here are some data points. For example the other week I took a couple hundred pounds of stuff off my boat, emptied the tanks, and cleaned the bottom, and I think it made a difference in light air. But my sails are old and tired, so I know my boat's polars will change again when I get new sails and a folding prop. For us software developers on the list, it almost looks like this guy @Jietermanis might have github-hosted software to create polar diagrams from user-supplied polar table CSVs. I've tweeted him for more information. Last night I got my SailTimer Wind Instrument installed at the masthead, so when I go out tomorrow afternoon the SailTimer App will be able to learn one polar curve for my boat, assuming I'm optimally trimmed on all points of sail. The wind is now forecast to be blowing 15 gusting 20, so hopefully I can get polar data with the same sails I race under (full main and 155 genoa, no spinnaker). If the wind gets much stronger I might have to reduce sail, so the polar data wouldn't be representative of my normal racing configuration. Best Regards, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
