Re: Stus-List Grounding
Thanks for the link to Stan's grounding article. I have read it before, but it was useful to do so again, as it highlighted a few things I will need to check (and which my surveyor missed): 1. I believe my galvanic isolator is (and was) wired incorrectly. The shore power ground goes to circuit panel ground, then through isolator to the boat's ground bus. Stan's article indicates the shorepower ground should go to the isolator first, then on to the breakers, then to boat ground. 2. My fuel tank (and fill cap) are grounded, but not bonded to the keel/mast lightning ground. (I am assuming that the aluminum mast step with keel bolt under the mast serves to bond the mast & keel). The surveyor specifically asked about grounding of the fuel tank and filler, but made no mention of lightning grounds. I am not certain if it is possible to achieve the strict isolation of the fuel tank from DC ground and still have a working fuel gauge; that would require a sender with a separate ground, which mine does not have. I think I am ok with everything else, except perhaps the lack of a zinc anode on my prop-shaft strut; if the cutlass bearing isolates it from the shaft, then it may not be (although the mounting bolts are SS). At one time, there were bonding wires on each of the bolts inside the hull, but those had been cut when I bought the boat. I plan to pull the strut in the fall, as one of the bolts is weeping slightly. -- Shawn Wright shawngwri...@gmail.com S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35 https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 9:36 AM David Castor via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > If you Google “Stan Honey marine grounding systems” you’ll find links to a > couple of versions of a well developed paper on grounding. I’m not an > expert but as a EE I didn’t find anything in it that I disagreed with. I > consider it basically definitive at this point. > > Just FYI > > On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 7:42 AM bwhitmore via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> Josh, or Edd, this might be a perfect question for you folks. Where is >> the star ground and the shunt located on our C&C 37/40+ boats? >> >> This is a perfect discussion, as I was having grounding issues of my own >> and the shunt and star ground cannot be found behind the circuit breaker >> panel, nor are they at the batteries, and I don't think I've seen them in >> the engine compartment... >> >> Thanks! >> >> Bruce Whitmore >> 1994 C&C37/40+ >> "Astralis" >> >> >> >> Sent from Samsung tablet. >> >> >> Original message >> From: Dave S via CnC-List >> Date: 5/30/20 10:33 AM (GMT-05:00) >> To: Neil Andersen >> Cc: Dave S , cnc-list@cnc-list.com >> Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding >> >> Feels like a leading (but good) question, lol - and I’d expect the >> ‘grounds’ could be at different potentials and that this delta would vary >> based on the ground at different marinas. >> You’ve made me curious, will measure the ground-to-ground voltage today. >> Not sure of the practical negative (if any) implications of the AC ground >> being at a slightly different potential than the isolated -12vdc ‘ground’? >> I can see that a poor -12vdc ‘ground’ could impact noise suppression in >> cable shielding or similar but otherwise Is there an issue? I’m Not a >> grounding/bonding expert by any means! >> Dave >> >> >> On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 9:56 AM Neil Andersen < >> neil.eric.ander...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Does that set up a different ground potential when connected to shore >>> power (AC side and 12V side)? >>> >>> Neil Andersen >>> Rock Hall, MD 21661 >>> -- >>> *From:* Dave S >>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 9:41:36 AM >>> *To:* Neil Andersen >>> *Cc:* Brian Davis ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com < >>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Grounding >>> >>> Interesting question. The term ‘ground’ probably should be distinguished >>> from the negative side of the dc circuit. >>> Can’t speak to more sophisticated boats but in my relatively simple 33-2 >>> The AC system is isolated, grounded only when connected to shore power. I >>> do not run any AC loads otherwise, no inverter. >>> The 12v system would ultimately ‘ground’ To the water via the engine, >>> prop and shaft. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 9:33 AM Neil Andersen < >>> neil.eric.ander...@gmail.com> wrote:
Re: Stus-List Grounding
I'm curious why the engine shouldn't be used as the grounding point? Mine isn't, but only because I wanted a central ground bus in the electrical space. In the rewire of our 35-2 that I just did, I built a ground busbar from 5/16" aluminum, installed two 5/16" main ground bolts, and 4 smaller ground screws, and installed this on one side of the electrical compartment above the engine. On the other side is a BlueSea positive busbar, fed by a BlueSea A-B battery switch. The ground bus is connected to my 100A current shunt for the battery meter with a 1/4" aluminum bar. All house loads are grounded to the busbar before the shunt. The batteries, windlass and engine starter motor are grounded after the shunt. The windlass and stern zinc anode (hung off transom) are grounded to the starboard engine mount (cable not long enough), and there is a 2/0 cable from the engine to the battery and starter grounding point at the shunt. Also, I have BlueSea on/off switch for the engine power (fed from the A/B swtich), as I don't like having my alternator and starter cables live all the time. Very easy to drop something that could short these terminals. -- Shawn Wright shawngwri...@gmail.com S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35 https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 5:22 AM Dave S via CnC-List wrote: > Agree with Joe's comment.the engine must be grounded but should not be > used as your primary grounding point. > there are a buncha' good reasons for this. Another thing to consider is > providing for an upgrade the battery/power monitoring, for which you may > need to install a resistive shunt between the battery and the various > grounds you wish to monitor, Here's a photo of the shunt (on the > right) and ground bus (left) in my 33-2, you can see the ground bus and > various grounds attached, this bus is connected to one side of the shunt, > the other side of which is connected to the house breaker panel and the > other accessories that are measured by my battery/power consumption > monitor. This is the shunt that victron provides with the BMV-700. > > > https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LeNHHo5kK2k/V5V0MaFJ_cI/Akc/VI_Cm3z-Aa0m_dZ9AmlgaeVdXmXQOINkgCLcB/s1600/blog%2Bgrounding%2B2.jpg > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Brian Davis > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 07:32:16 -0400 > Subject: Stus-List Grounding > Hello everyone, > > Hope you quarantine projects are going well. > > I have a question about grounding. I'm currently refitting ALL wiring from > scratch on our 1980 Landfall 38. I literally gutted every piece of wire and > bought all new Ancor tinned marine cables in every guage you can imagine. > She's coming along swimmingly, and I've mapped everything out pretty well > in a 8 page layered diagram that I'm happy to email direct to anyone who > wants it. It's in PowerPoint and about 8mg. > > My question about Grounding is if it's ok to use my engine as the > grounding point? I'm using the similar area for the Negative connection for > the 3 battery banks, but a different bolt to the engine case. Several > appliances including the breaker panels, ACR, battery charger, water > heater, fuel tank, etc require a ground and I'm using a 6 awg green wire > from the engine to a large Blue Sea busbar. Then connected the grounds to > it. > > I've also run a 2awg wire from the mast step to the keel bolt and to one > of the stanchion bases from underneath for lightning protection. However I > kept that all separated and not connected to the grounding. > > Make sense? Or am I missing something? Again, happy to send my diagram for > review. > > Regards, > Brian > South FL > > > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Joe Della Barba > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 07:52:37 -0400 > Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding > > Don't use the engine for ship's ground. Use one of these: > > > https://www.bluesea.com/products/2127/MaxiBus_250A_BusBar_-_Four_5_16in-18_Studs > > Your AC ground bus will connect to that ground point as well. Speaking of > AC, make sure you have a galvanic isolator. > > Run ONE ground wire to the engine. You don't want your engine block to be > a routine conductor of electricity. > > Here is your lightning ground conundrum: The old way was to connect all > metal together. Coquina came with a ground wire system that connected every > single thru-hull, the mast step, the engine and the keel. The problem with > that is if the zinc does not work perfectly, you can have electrolysis on a > large scale sin
Re: Stus-List Grounding
Awesome! Thank you! On Sat, May 30, 2020, 12:36 PM David Castor via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > If you Google “Stan Honey marine grounding systems” you’ll find links to a > couple of versions of a well developed paper on grounding. I’m not an > expert but as a EE I didn’t find anything in it that I disagreed with. I > consider it basically definitive at this point. > > Just FYI > > On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 7:42 AM bwhitmore via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> Josh, or Edd, this might be a perfect question for you folks. Where is >> the star ground and the shunt located on our C&C 37/40+ boats? >> >> This is a perfect discussion, as I was having grounding issues of my own >> and the shunt and star ground cannot be found behind the circuit breaker >> panel, nor are they at the batteries, and I don't think I've seen them in >> the engine compartment... >> >> Thanks! >> >> Bruce Whitmore >> 1994 C&C37/40+ >> "Astralis" >> >> >> >> Sent from Samsung tablet. >> >> >> Original message >> From: Dave S via CnC-List >> Date: 5/30/20 10:33 AM (GMT-05:00) >> To: Neil Andersen >> Cc: Dave S , cnc-list@cnc-list.com >> Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding >> >> Feels like a leading (but good) question, lol - and I’d expect the >> ‘grounds’ could be at different potentials and that this delta would vary >> based on the ground at different marinas. >> You’ve made me curious, will measure the ground-to-ground voltage today. >> Not sure of the practical negative (if any) implications of the AC ground >> being at a slightly different potential than the isolated -12vdc ‘ground’? >> I can see that a poor -12vdc ‘ground’ could impact noise suppression in >> cable shielding or similar but otherwise Is there an issue? I’m Not a >> grounding/bonding expert by any means! >> Dave >> >> >> On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 9:56 AM Neil Andersen < >> neil.eric.ander...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Does that set up a different ground potential when connected to shore >>> power (AC side and 12V side)? >>> >>> Neil Andersen >>> Rock Hall, MD 21661 >>> -- >>> *From:* Dave S >>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 9:41:36 AM >>> *To:* Neil Andersen >>> *Cc:* Brian Davis ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com < >>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Grounding >>> >>> Interesting question. The term ‘ground’ probably should be distinguished >>> from the negative side of the dc circuit. >>> Can’t speak to more sophisticated boats but in my relatively simple 33-2 >>> The AC system is isolated, grounded only when connected to shore power. I >>> do not run any AC loads otherwise, no inverter. >>> The 12v system would ultimately ‘ground’ To the water via the engine, >>> prop and shaft. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 9:33 AM Neil Andersen < >>> neil.eric.ander...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Where do you actually go to “ground” off the bus?? >>> >>> Neil Andersen >>> 1982 C&C 32 >>> Rock Hall, MD >>> -- >>> *From:* CnC-List on behalf of Dave S >>> via CnC-List >>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 9:18:24 AM >>> *To:* Brian Davis ; C&c Stus List < >>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >>> *Cc:* Dave S >>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Grounding >>> >>> Essentially yes, however when you are thinking of the boat's wiring, I >>> would think of the ground bus as the centre, with the engine connected to >>> it, rather than the reverse. Think of it a hub or a star - with the >>> ground bus at the centre. (Google "star grounding") one of those paths >>> has to finally cross the shunt to be measured. (those loads which are >>> powered by the house bank) >>> >>> That green wire is the ground for the aluminum fuel tank. The rest are >>> batteries (house 1,2, and start) or engine, plus the shunt. All are at >>> the same ground potential. On the other side of the shunt is >>> the smartcharger, the refrigeration unit, the house breaker panel, and >>> anything else I want to "see" in the BMV 700.Basically anything that >>> impacts the house bank, (though this does not include the alterna
Re: Stus-List Grounding
If you Google “Stan Honey marine grounding systems” you’ll find links to a couple of versions of a well developed paper on grounding. I’m not an expert but as a EE I didn’t find anything in it that I disagreed with. I consider it basically definitive at this point. Just FYI On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 7:42 AM bwhitmore via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Hello all, > > Josh, or Edd, this might be a perfect question for you folks. Where is > the star ground and the shunt located on our C&C 37/40+ boats? > > This is a perfect discussion, as I was having grounding issues of my own > and the shunt and star ground cannot be found behind the circuit breaker > panel, nor are they at the batteries, and I don't think I've seen them in > the engine compartment... > > Thanks! > > Bruce Whitmore > 1994 C&C37/40+ > "Astralis" > > > > Sent from Samsung tablet. > > > Original message > From: Dave S via CnC-List > Date: 5/30/20 10:33 AM (GMT-05:00) > To: Neil Andersen > Cc: Dave S , cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding > > Feels like a leading (but good) question, lol - and I’d expect the > ‘grounds’ could be at different potentials and that this delta would vary > based on the ground at different marinas. > You’ve made me curious, will measure the ground-to-ground voltage today. > Not sure of the practical negative (if any) implications of the AC ground > being at a slightly different potential than the isolated -12vdc ‘ground’? > I can see that a poor -12vdc ‘ground’ could impact noise suppression in > cable shielding or similar but otherwise Is there an issue? I’m Not a > grounding/bonding expert by any means! > Dave > > > On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 9:56 AM Neil Andersen < > neil.eric.ander...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Does that set up a different ground potential when connected to shore >> power (AC side and 12V side)? >> >> Neil Andersen >> Rock Hall, MD 21661 >> ------ >> *From:* Dave S >> *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 9:41:36 AM >> *To:* Neil Andersen >> *Cc:* Brian Davis ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com < >> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Grounding >> >> Interesting question. The term ‘ground’ probably should be distinguished >> from the negative side of the dc circuit. >> Can’t speak to more sophisticated boats but in my relatively simple 33-2 >> The AC system is isolated, grounded only when connected to shore power. I >> do not run any AC loads otherwise, no inverter. >> The 12v system would ultimately ‘ground’ To the water via the engine, >> prop and shaft. >> >> Dave >> >> On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 9:33 AM Neil Andersen < >> neil.eric.ander...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Where do you actually go to “ground” off the bus?? >> >> Neil Andersen >> 1982 C&C 32 >> Rock Hall, MD >> -- >> *From:* CnC-List on behalf of Dave S via >> CnC-List >> *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 9:18:24 AM >> *To:* Brian Davis ; C&c Stus List < >> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >> *Cc:* Dave S >> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Grounding >> >> Essentially yes, however when you are thinking of the boat's wiring, I >> would think of the ground bus as the centre, with the engine connected to >> it, rather than the reverse. Think of it a hub or a star - with the >> ground bus at the centre. (Google "star grounding") one of those paths >> has to finally cross the shunt to be measured. (those loads which are >> powered by the house bank) >> >> That green wire is the ground for the aluminum fuel tank. The rest are >> batteries (house 1,2, and start) or engine, plus the shunt. All are at >> the same ground potential. On the other side of the shunt is >> the smartcharger, the refrigeration unit, the house breaker panel, and >> anything else I want to "see" in the BMV 700.Basically anything that >> impacts the house bank, (though this does not include the alternator.) >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> On Sat, 30 May 2020 at 08:43, Brian Davis >> wrote: >> >> Thanks, Dave. I have the same type of shunt that came with the Blue Sea >> panels I'm installing and will have the same monitoring. I see in you pic >> there's a green wire (grounding?) going to the bus along with the blacks >> (negative batteries). So, all of that goes to the same engine connecting >> point and the grounds and negatives share that single point? Just wan
Re: Stus-List Grounding
Hello all,Josh, or Edd, this might be a perfect question for you folks. Where is the star ground and the shunt located on our C&C 37/40+ boats? This is a perfect discussion, as I was having grounding issues of my own and the shunt and star ground cannot be found behind the circuit breaker panel, nor are they at the batteries, and I don't think I've seen them in the engine compartment...Thanks!Bruce Whitmore1994 C&C37/40+"Astralis"Sent from Samsung tablet. Original message From: Dave S via CnC-List Date: 5/30/20 10:33 AM (GMT-05:00) To: Neil Andersen Cc: Dave S , cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding Feels like a leading (but good) question, lol - and I’d expect the ‘grounds’ could be at different potentials and that this delta would vary based on the ground at different marinas. You’ve made me curious, will measure the ground-to-ground voltage today.Not sure of the practical negative (if any) implications of the AC ground being at a slightly different potential than the isolated -12vdc ‘ground’? I can see that a poor -12vdc ‘ground’ could impact noise suppression in cable shielding or similar but otherwise Is there an issue? I’m Not a grounding/bonding expert by any means!Dave On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 9:56 AM Neil Andersen wrote: Does that set up a different ground potential when connected to shore power (AC side and 12V side)? Neil Andersen Rock Hall, MD 21661 From: Dave S Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 9:41:36 AM To: Neil Andersen Cc: Brian Davis ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding Interesting question. The term ‘ground’ probably should be distinguished from the negative side of the dc circuit. Can’t speak to more sophisticated boats but in my relatively simple 33-2 The AC system is isolated, grounded only when connected to shore power. I do not run any AC loads otherwise, no inverter. The 12v system would ultimately ‘ground’ To the water via the engine, prop and shaft. Dave On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 9:33 AM Neil Andersen wrote: Where do you actually go to “ground” off the bus?? Neil Andersen 1982 C&C 32 Rock Hall, MD From: CnC-List on behalf of Dave S via CnC-List Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 9:18:24 AM To: Brian Davis ; C&c Stus List Cc: Dave S Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding Essentially yes, however when you are thinking of the boat's wiring, I would think of the ground bus as the centre, with the engine connected to it, rather than the reverse. Think of it a hub or a star - with the ground bus at the centre. (Google "star grounding") one of those paths has to finally cross the shunt to be measured. (those loads which are powered by the house bank) That green wire is the ground for the aluminum fuel tank. The rest are batteries (house 1,2, and start) or engine, plus the shunt. All are at the same ground potential. On the other side of the shunt is the smartcharger, the refrigeration unit, the house breaker panel, and anything else I want to "see" in the BMV 700. Basically anything that impacts the house bank, (though this does not include the alternator.) Dave On Sat, 30 May 2020 at 08:43, Brian Davis wrote: Thanks, Dave. I have the same type of shunt that came with the Blue Sea panels I'm installing and will have the same monitoring. I see in you pic there's a green wire (grounding?) going to the bus along with the blacks (negative batteries). So, all of that goes to the same engine connecting point and the grounds and negatives share that single point? Just want to make sure I completely "get it". Thanks for all your guys help. On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 8:21 AM Dave S wrote: Agree with Joe's comment. the engine must be grounded but should not be used as your primary grounding point. there are a buncha' good reasons for this. Another thing to consider is providing for an upgrade the battery/power monitoring, for which you may need to install a resistive shunt between the battery and the various grounds you wish to monitor, Here's a photo of the shunt (on the right) and ground bus (left) in my 33-2, you can see the ground bus and various grounds attached, this bus is connected to one side of the shunt, the other side of which is connected to the house breaker panel and the other accessories that are measured by my battery/power consumption monitor. This is the shunt that victron provides with the BMV-700. https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LeNHHo5kK2k/V5V0MaFJ_cI/Akc/VI_Cm3z-Aa0m_dZ9AmlgaeVdXmXQOINkgCLcB/s1600/blog%2Bgrounding%2B2.jpg Dave -- Forwarded message -- From: Brian Davis To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Bcc: Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 07:32:16 -0400 Subject: Stus-List Grounding Hello everyone, Hope you quar
Re: Stus-List Grounding
Feels like a leading (but good) question, lol - and I’d expect the ‘grounds’ could be at different potentials and that this delta would vary based on the ground at different marinas. You’ve made me curious, will measure the ground-to-ground voltage today. Not sure of the practical negative (if any) implications of the AC ground being at a slightly different potential than the isolated -12vdc ‘ground’? I can see that a poor -12vdc ‘ground’ could impact noise suppression in cable shielding or similar but otherwise Is there an issue? I’m Not a grounding/bonding expert by any means! Dave On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 9:56 AM Neil Andersen wrote: > Does that set up a different ground potential when connected to shore > power (AC side and 12V side)? > > Neil Andersen > Rock Hall, MD 21661 > -- > *From:* Dave S > *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 9:41:36 AM > *To:* Neil Andersen > *Cc:* Brian Davis ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Grounding > > Interesting question. The term ‘ground’ probably should be distinguished > from the negative side of the dc circuit. > Can’t speak to more sophisticated boats but in my relatively simple 33-2 > The AC system is isolated, grounded only when connected to shore power. I > do not run any AC loads otherwise, no inverter. > The 12v system would ultimately ‘ground’ To the water via the engine, prop > and shaft. > > Dave > > On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 9:33 AM Neil Andersen < > neil.eric.ander...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Where do you actually go to “ground” off the bus?? > > Neil Andersen > 1982 C&C 32 > Rock Hall, MD > -- > *From:* CnC-List on behalf of Dave S via > CnC-List > *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 9:18:24 AM > *To:* Brian Davis ; C&c Stus List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > *Cc:* Dave S > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Grounding > > Essentially yes, however when you are thinking of the boat's wiring, I > would think of the ground bus as the centre, with the engine connected to > it, rather than the reverse. Think of it a hub or a star - with the > ground bus at the centre. (Google "star grounding") one of those paths > has to finally cross the shunt to be measured. (those loads which are > powered by the house bank) > > That green wire is the ground for the aluminum fuel tank. The rest are > batteries (house 1,2, and start) or engine, plus the shunt. All are at > the same ground potential. On the other side of the shunt is > the smartcharger, the refrigeration unit, the house breaker panel, and > anything else I want to "see" in the BMV 700.Basically anything that > impacts the house bank, (though this does not include the alternator.) > > Dave > > > > On Sat, 30 May 2020 at 08:43, Brian Davis > wrote: > > Thanks, Dave. I have the same type of shunt that came with the Blue Sea > panels I'm installing and will have the same monitoring. I see in you pic > there's a green wire (grounding?) going to the bus along with the blacks > (negative batteries). So, all of that goes to the same engine connecting > point and the grounds and negatives share that single point? Just want to > make sure I completely "get it". > > Thanks for all your guys help. > > On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 8:21 AM Dave S wrote: > > Agree with Joe's comment.the engine must be grounded but should not be > used as your primary grounding point. > there are a buncha' good reasons for this. Another thing to consider is > providing for an upgrade the battery/power monitoring, for which you may > need to install a resistive shunt between the battery and the various > grounds you wish to monitor, Here's a photo of the shunt (on the > right) and ground bus (left) in my 33-2, you can see the ground bus and > various grounds attached, this bus is connected to one side of the shunt, > the other side of which is connected to the house breaker panel and the > other accessories that are measured by my battery/power consumption > monitor. This is the shunt that victron provides with the BMV-700. > > > https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LeNHHo5kK2k/V5V0MaFJ_cI/Akc/VI_Cm3z-Aa0m_dZ9AmlgaeVdXmXQOINkgCLcB/s1600/blog%2Bgrounding%2B2.jpg > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Brian Davis > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 07:32:16 -0400 > Subject: Stus-List Grounding > Hello everyone, > > Hope you quarantine projects are going well. > > I have a question about grounding. I'm currently refitting ALL wiring from > scratch on our 1980
Re: Stus-List Grounding
Yes - that can be quite dangerous. My AC ground bus ties to the ship's ground bus, which ties to the engine, and thus the water. Not doing so can kill swimmers. Joe On 5/30/2020 9:56 AM, Neil Andersen via CnC-List wrote: Does that set up a different ground potential when connected to shore power (AC side and 12V side)? Neil Andersen Rock Hall, MD 21661 *From:* Dave S *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 9:41:36 AM *To:* Neil Andersen *Cc:* Brian Davis ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Grounding Interesting question. The term ‘ground’ probably should be distinguished from the negative side of the dc circuit. Can’t speak to more sophisticated boats but in my relatively simple 33-2 The AC system is isolated, grounded only when connected to shore power. I do not run any AC loads otherwise, no inverter. The 12v system would ultimately ‘ground’ To the water via the engine, prop and shaft. Dave On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 9:33 AM Neil Andersen mailto:neil.eric.ander...@gmail.com>> wrote: Where do you actually go to “ground” off the bus?? Neil Andersen 1982 C&C 32 Rock Hall, MD *From:* CnC-List mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> on behalf of Dave S via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 9:18:24 AM *To:* Brian Davis mailto:brianwdavis...@gmail.com>>; C&c Stus List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> *Cc:* Dave S mailto:syerd...@gmail.com>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Grounding Essentially yes, however when you are thinking of the boat's wiring, I would think of the ground bus as the centre, with the engine connected to it, rather than the reverse. Think of it a hub or a star - with the ground bus at the centre. (Google "star grounding") one of those paths has to finally cross the shunt to be measured. (those loads which are powered by the house bank) That green wire is the ground for the aluminum fuel tank. The rest are batteries (house 1,2, and start) or engine, plus the shunt. All are at the same ground potential. On the other side of the shunt is the smartcharger, the refrigeration unit, the house breaker panel, and anything else I want to "see" in the BMV 700. Basically anything that impacts the house bank, (though this does not include the alternator.) Dave On Sat, 30 May 2020 at 08:43, Brian Davis mailto:brianwdavis...@gmail.com>> wrote: Thanks, Dave. I have the same type of shunt that came with the Blue Sea panels I'm installing and will have the same monitoring. I see in you pic there's a green wire (grounding?) going to the bus along with the blacks (negative batteries). So, all of that goes to the same engine connecting point and the grounds and negatives share that single point? Just want to make sure I completely "get it". Thanks for all your guys help. On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 8:21 AM Dave S mailto:syerd...@gmail.com>> wrote: Agree with Joe's comment. the engine must be grounded but should not be used as your primary grounding point. there are a buncha' good reasons for this. Another thing to consider is providing for an upgrade the battery/power monitoring, for which you may need to install a resistive shunt between the battery and the various grounds you wish to monitor, Here's a photo of the shunt (on the right) and ground bus (left) in my 33-2, you can see the ground bus and various grounds attached, this bus is connected to one side of the shunt, the other side of which is connected to the house breaker panel and the other accessories that are measured by my battery/power consumption monitor. This is the shunt that victron provides with the BMV-700. https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LeNHHo5kK2k/V5V0MaFJ_cI/Akc/VI_Cm3z-Aa0m_dZ9AmlgaeVdXmXQOINkgCLcB/s1600/blog%2Bgrounding%2B2.jpg Dave -- Forwarded message -- From: Brian Davis mailto:brianwdavis...@gmail.com>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: Bcc: Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 07:32:16 -0400 Subject: Stus-List Grounding Hello everyone, Hope you quarantine projects are going well. I have a question about grounding. I'm currently refitting ALL wiring from scratch on our 1980 Landfall 38. I literally gutted every piece of
Re: Stus-List Grounding
Does that set up a different ground potential when connected to shore power (AC side and 12V side)? Neil Andersen Rock Hall, MD 21661 From: Dave S Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 9:41:36 AM To: Neil Andersen Cc: Brian Davis ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding Interesting question. The term ‘ground’ probably should be distinguished from the negative side of the dc circuit. Can’t speak to more sophisticated boats but in my relatively simple 33-2 The AC system is isolated, grounded only when connected to shore power. I do not run any AC loads otherwise, no inverter. The 12v system would ultimately ‘ground’ To the water via the engine, prop and shaft. Dave On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 9:33 AM Neil Andersen mailto:neil.eric.ander...@gmail.com>> wrote: Where do you actually go to “ground” off the bus?? Neil Andersen 1982 C&C 32 Rock Hall, MD From: CnC-List mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> on behalf of Dave S via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 9:18:24 AM To: Brian Davis mailto:brianwdavis...@gmail.com>>; C&c Stus List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> Cc: Dave S mailto:syerd...@gmail.com>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding Essentially yes, however when you are thinking of the boat's wiring, I would think of the ground bus as the centre, with the engine connected to it, rather than the reverse. Think of it a hub or a star - with the ground bus at the centre. (Google "star grounding") one of those paths has to finally cross the shunt to be measured. (those loads which are powered by the house bank) That green wire is the ground for the aluminum fuel tank. The rest are batteries (house 1,2, and start) or engine, plus the shunt. All are at the same ground potential. On the other side of the shunt is the smartcharger, the refrigeration unit, the house breaker panel, and anything else I want to "see" in the BMV 700.Basically anything that impacts the house bank, (though this does not include the alternator.) Dave On Sat, 30 May 2020 at 08:43, Brian Davis mailto:brianwdavis...@gmail.com>> wrote: Thanks, Dave. I have the same type of shunt that came with the Blue Sea panels I'm installing and will have the same monitoring. I see in you pic there's a green wire (grounding?) going to the bus along with the blacks (negative batteries). So, all of that goes to the same engine connecting point and the grounds and negatives share that single point? Just want to make sure I completely "get it". Thanks for all your guys help. On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 8:21 AM Dave S mailto:syerd...@gmail.com>> wrote: Agree with Joe's comment.the engine must be grounded but should not be used as your primary grounding point. there are a buncha' good reasons for this. Another thing to consider is providing for an upgrade the battery/power monitoring, for which you may need to install a resistive shunt between the battery and the various grounds you wish to monitor, Here's a photo of the shunt (on the right) and ground bus (left) in my 33-2, you can see the ground bus and various grounds attached, this bus is connected to one side of the shunt, the other side of which is connected to the house breaker panel and the other accessories that are measured by my battery/power consumption monitor. This is the shunt that victron provides with the BMV-700. https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LeNHHo5kK2k/V5V0MaFJ_cI/Akc/VI_Cm3z-Aa0m_dZ9AmlgaeVdXmXQOINkgCLcB/s1600/blog%2Bgrounding%2B2.jpg Dave -- Forwarded message -- From: Brian Davis mailto:brianwdavis...@gmail.com>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: Bcc: Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 07:32:16 -0400 Subject: Stus-List Grounding Hello everyone, Hope you quarantine projects are going well. I have a question about grounding. I'm currently refitting ALL wiring from scratch on our 1980 Landfall 38. I literally gutted every piece of wire and bought all new Ancor tinned marine cables in every guage you can imagine. She's coming along swimmingly, and I've mapped everything out pretty well in a 8 page layered diagram that I'm happy to email direct to anyone who wants it. It's in PowerPoint and about 8mg. My question about Grounding is if it's ok to use my engine as the grounding point? I'm using the similar area for the Negative connection for the 3 battery banks, but a different bolt to the engine case. Several appliances including the breaker panels, ACR, battery charger, water heater, fuel tank, etc require a ground and I'm using a 6 awg green wire from the engine to a large Blue Sea busbar. Then connected the grounds to it. I've also run a 2awg wire from the mast step to the keel bolt and
Re: Stus-List Grounding
Interesting question. The term ‘ground’ probably should be distinguished from the negative side of the dc circuit. Can’t speak to more sophisticated boats but in my relatively simple 33-2 The AC system is isolated, grounded only when connected to shore power. I do not run any AC loads otherwise, no inverter. The 12v system would ultimately ‘ground’ To the water via the engine, prop and shaft. Dave On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 9:33 AM Neil Andersen wrote: > Where do you actually go to “ground” off the bus?? > > Neil Andersen > 1982 C&C 32 > Rock Hall, MD > -- > *From:* CnC-List on behalf of Dave S via > CnC-List > *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 9:18:24 AM > *To:* Brian Davis ; C&c Stus List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > *Cc:* Dave S > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Grounding > > Essentially yes, however when you are thinking of the boat's wiring, I > would think of the ground bus as the centre, with the engine connected to > it, rather than the reverse. Think of it a hub or a star - with the > ground bus at the centre. (Google "star grounding") one of those paths > has to finally cross the shunt to be measured. (those loads which are > powered by the house bank) > > That green wire is the ground for the aluminum fuel tank. The rest are > batteries (house 1,2, and start) or engine, plus the shunt. All are at > the same ground potential. On the other side of the shunt is > the smartcharger, the refrigeration unit, the house breaker panel, and > anything else I want to "see" in the BMV 700.Basically anything that > impacts the house bank, (though this does not include the alternator.) > > Dave > > > > On Sat, 30 May 2020 at 08:43, Brian Davis > wrote: > > Thanks, Dave. I have the same type of shunt that came with the Blue Sea > panels I'm installing and will have the same monitoring. I see in you pic > there's a green wire (grounding?) going to the bus along with the blacks > (negative batteries). So, all of that goes to the same engine connecting > point and the grounds and negatives share that single point? Just want to > make sure I completely "get it". > > Thanks for all your guys help. > > On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 8:21 AM Dave S wrote: > > Agree with Joe's comment.the engine must be grounded but should not be > used as your primary grounding point. > there are a buncha' good reasons for this. Another thing to consider is > providing for an upgrade the battery/power monitoring, for which you may > need to install a resistive shunt between the battery and the various > grounds you wish to monitor, Here's a photo of the shunt (on the > right) and ground bus (left) in my 33-2, you can see the ground bus and > various grounds attached, this bus is connected to one side of the shunt, > the other side of which is connected to the house breaker panel and the > other accessories that are measured by my battery/power consumption > monitor. This is the shunt that victron provides with the BMV-700. > > > https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LeNHHo5kK2k/V5V0MaFJ_cI/AAAAAkc/VI_Cm3z-Aa0m_dZ9AmlgaeVdXmXQOINkgCLcB/s1600/blog%2Bgrounding%2B2.jpg > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Brian Davis > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 07:32:16 -0400 > Subject: Stus-List Grounding > Hello everyone, > > Hope you quarantine projects are going well. > > I have a question about grounding. I'm currently refitting ALL wiring from > scratch on our 1980 Landfall 38. I literally gutted every piece of wire and > bought all new Ancor tinned marine cables in every guage you can imagine. > She's coming along swimmingly, and I've mapped everything out pretty well > in a 8 page layered diagram that I'm happy to email direct to anyone who > wants it. It's in PowerPoint and about 8mg. > > My question about Grounding is if it's ok to use my engine as the > grounding point? I'm using the similar area for the Negative connection for > the 3 battery banks, but a different bolt to the engine case. Several > appliances including the breaker panels, ACR, battery charger, water > heater, fuel tank, etc require a ground and I'm using a 6 awg green wire > from the engine to a large Blue Sea busbar. Then connected the grounds to > it. > > I've also run a 2awg wire from the mast step to the keel bolt and to one > of the stanchion bases from underneath for lightning protection. However I > kept that all separated and not connected to the grounding. > > Make sense? Or am I missing something? Again, happy to send my diagram fo
Re: Stus-List Grounding
Where do you actually go to “ground” off the bus?? Neil Andersen 1982 C&C 32 Rock Hall, MD From: CnC-List on behalf of Dave S via CnC-List Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 9:18:24 AM To: Brian Davis ; C&c Stus List Cc: Dave S Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding Essentially yes, however when you are thinking of the boat's wiring, I would think of the ground bus as the centre, with the engine connected to it, rather than the reverse. Think of it a hub or a star - with the ground bus at the centre. (Google "star grounding") one of those paths has to finally cross the shunt to be measured. (those loads which are powered by the house bank) That green wire is the ground for the aluminum fuel tank. The rest are batteries (house 1,2, and start) or engine, plus the shunt. All are at the same ground potential. On the other side of the shunt is the smartcharger, the refrigeration unit, the house breaker panel, and anything else I want to "see" in the BMV 700.Basically anything that impacts the house bank, (though this does not include the alternator.) Dave On Sat, 30 May 2020 at 08:43, Brian Davis mailto:brianwdavis...@gmail.com>> wrote: Thanks, Dave. I have the same type of shunt that came with the Blue Sea panels I'm installing and will have the same monitoring. I see in you pic there's a green wire (grounding?) going to the bus along with the blacks (negative batteries). So, all of that goes to the same engine connecting point and the grounds and negatives share that single point? Just want to make sure I completely "get it". Thanks for all your guys help. On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 8:21 AM Dave S mailto:syerd...@gmail.com>> wrote: Agree with Joe's comment.the engine must be grounded but should not be used as your primary grounding point. there are a buncha' good reasons for this. Another thing to consider is providing for an upgrade the battery/power monitoring, for which you may need to install a resistive shunt between the battery and the various grounds you wish to monitor, Here's a photo of the shunt (on the right) and ground bus (left) in my 33-2, you can see the ground bus and various grounds attached, this bus is connected to one side of the shunt, the other side of which is connected to the house breaker panel and the other accessories that are measured by my battery/power consumption monitor. This is the shunt that victron provides with the BMV-700. https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LeNHHo5kK2k/V5V0MaFJ_cI/Akc/VI_Cm3z-Aa0m_dZ9AmlgaeVdXmXQOINkgCLcB/s1600/blog%2Bgrounding%2B2.jpg Dave -- Forwarded message -- From: Brian Davis mailto:brianwdavis...@gmail.com>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: Bcc: Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 07:32:16 -0400 Subject: Stus-List Grounding Hello everyone, Hope you quarantine projects are going well. I have a question about grounding. I'm currently refitting ALL wiring from scratch on our 1980 Landfall 38. I literally gutted every piece of wire and bought all new Ancor tinned marine cables in every guage you can imagine. She's coming along swimmingly, and I've mapped everything out pretty well in a 8 page layered diagram that I'm happy to email direct to anyone who wants it. It's in PowerPoint and about 8mg. My question about Grounding is if it's ok to use my engine as the grounding point? I'm using the similar area for the Negative connection for the 3 battery banks, but a different bolt to the engine case. Several appliances including the breaker panels, ACR, battery charger, water heater, fuel tank, etc require a ground and I'm using a 6 awg green wire from the engine to a large Blue Sea busbar. Then connected the grounds to it. I've also run a 2awg wire from the mast step to the keel bolt and to one of the stanchion bases from underneath for lightning protection. However I kept that all separated and not connected to the grounding. Make sense? Or am I missing something? Again, happy to send my diagram for review. Regards, Brian South FL -- Forwarded message -- From: Joe Della Barba mailto:j...@dellabarba.com>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: Bcc: Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 07:52:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding Don't use the engine for ship's ground. Use one of these: https://www.bluesea.com/products/2127/MaxiBus_250A_BusBar_-_Four_5_16in-18_Studs Your AC ground bus will connect to that ground point as well. Speaking of AC, make sure you have a galvanic isolator. Run ONE ground wire to the engine. You don't want your engine block to be a routine conductor of electricity. Here is your lightning ground conundrum: The old way was to connect all metal together. Coquina came with a ground wire system that
Re: Stus-List Grounding
Ok, thanks for the clarification. On Sat, May 30, 2020, 9:18 AM Dave S wrote: > Essentially yes, however when you are thinking of the boat's wiring, I > would think of the ground bus as the centre, with the engine connected to > it, rather than the reverse. Think of it a hub or a star - with the > ground bus at the centre. (Google "star grounding") one of those paths > has to finally cross the shunt to be measured. (those loads which are > powered by the house bank) > > That green wire is the ground for the aluminum fuel tank. The rest are > batteries (house 1,2, and start) or engine, plus the shunt. All are at > the same ground potential. On the other side of the shunt is > the smartcharger, the refrigeration unit, the house breaker panel, and > anything else I want to "see" in the BMV 700.Basically anything that > impacts the house bank, (though this does not include the alternator.) > > Dave > > > > On Sat, 30 May 2020 at 08:43, Brian Davis > wrote: > >> Thanks, Dave. I have the same type of shunt that came with the Blue Sea >> panels I'm installing and will have the same monitoring. I see in you pic >> there's a green wire (grounding?) going to the bus along with the blacks >> (negative batteries). So, all of that goes to the same engine connecting >> point and the grounds and negatives share that single point? Just want to >> make sure I completely "get it". >> >> Thanks for all your guys help. >> >> On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 8:21 AM Dave S wrote: >> >>> Agree with Joe's comment.the engine must be grounded but should not >>> be used as your primary grounding point. >>> there are a buncha' good reasons for this. Another thing to consider is >>> providing for an upgrade the battery/power monitoring, for which you may >>> need to install a resistive shunt between the battery and the various >>> grounds you wish to monitor, Here's a photo of the shunt (on the >>> right) and ground bus (left) in my 33-2, you can see the ground bus and >>> various grounds attached, this bus is connected to one side of the shunt, >>> the other side of which is connected to the house breaker panel and the >>> other accessories that are measured by my battery/power consumption >>> monitor. This is the shunt that victron provides with the BMV-700. >>> >>> >>> https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LeNHHo5kK2k/V5V0MaFJ_cI/Akc/VI_Cm3z-Aa0m_dZ9AmlgaeVdXmXQOINkgCLcB/s1600/blog%2Bgrounding%2B2.jpg >>> >>> >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- Forwarded message -- >>> From: Brian Davis >>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com >>> Cc: >>> Bcc: >>> Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 07:32:16 -0400 >>> Subject: Stus-List Grounding >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> Hope you quarantine projects are going well. >>> >>> I have a question about grounding. I'm currently refitting ALL wiring >>> from scratch on our 1980 Landfall 38. I literally gutted every piece of >>> wire and bought all new Ancor tinned marine cables in every guage you can >>> imagine. She's coming along swimmingly, and I've mapped everything out >>> pretty well in a 8 page layered diagram that I'm happy to email direct to >>> anyone who wants it. It's in PowerPoint and about 8mg. >>> >>> My question about Grounding is if it's ok to use my engine as the >>> grounding point? I'm using the similar area for the Negative connection for >>> the 3 battery banks, but a different bolt to the engine case. Several >>> appliances including the breaker panels, ACR, battery charger, water >>> heater, fuel tank, etc require a ground and I'm using a 6 awg green wire >>> from the engine to a large Blue Sea busbar. Then connected the grounds to >>> it. >>> >>> I've also run a 2awg wire from the mast step to the keel bolt and to one >>> of the stanchion bases from underneath for lightning protection. However I >>> kept that all separated and not connected to the grounding. >>> >>> Make sense? Or am I missing something? Again, happy to send my diagram >>> for review. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Brian >>> South FL >>> >>> >>> >>> -- Forwarded message -- >>> From: Joe Della Barba >>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com >>> Cc: >>>
Re: Stus-List Grounding
Essentially yes, however when you are thinking of the boat's wiring, I would think of the ground bus as the centre, with the engine connected to it, rather than the reverse. Think of it a hub or a star - with the ground bus at the centre. (Google "star grounding") one of those paths has to finally cross the shunt to be measured. (those loads which are powered by the house bank) That green wire is the ground for the aluminum fuel tank. The rest are batteries (house 1,2, and start) or engine, plus the shunt. All are at the same ground potential. On the other side of the shunt is the smartcharger, the refrigeration unit, the house breaker panel, and anything else I want to "see" in the BMV 700.Basically anything that impacts the house bank, (though this does not include the alternator.) Dave On Sat, 30 May 2020 at 08:43, Brian Davis wrote: > Thanks, Dave. I have the same type of shunt that came with the Blue Sea > panels I'm installing and will have the same monitoring. I see in you pic > there's a green wire (grounding?) going to the bus along with the blacks > (negative batteries). So, all of that goes to the same engine connecting > point and the grounds and negatives share that single point? Just want to > make sure I completely "get it". > > Thanks for all your guys help. > > On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 8:21 AM Dave S wrote: > >> Agree with Joe's comment.the engine must be grounded but should not >> be used as your primary grounding point. >> there are a buncha' good reasons for this. Another thing to consider is >> providing for an upgrade the battery/power monitoring, for which you may >> need to install a resistive shunt between the battery and the various >> grounds you wish to monitor, Here's a photo of the shunt (on the >> right) and ground bus (left) in my 33-2, you can see the ground bus and >> various grounds attached, this bus is connected to one side of the shunt, >> the other side of which is connected to the house breaker panel and the >> other accessories that are measured by my battery/power consumption >> monitor. This is the shunt that victron provides with the BMV-700. >> >> >> https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LeNHHo5kK2k/V5V0MaFJ_cI/Akc/VI_Cm3z-Aa0m_dZ9AmlgaeVdXmXQOINkgCLcB/s1600/blog%2Bgrounding%2B2.jpg >> >> >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- Forwarded message -- >> From: Brian Davis >> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com >> Cc: >> Bcc: >> Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 07:32:16 -0400 >> Subject: Stus-List Grounding >> Hello everyone, >> >> Hope you quarantine projects are going well. >> >> I have a question about grounding. I'm currently refitting ALL wiring >> from scratch on our 1980 Landfall 38. I literally gutted every piece of >> wire and bought all new Ancor tinned marine cables in every guage you can >> imagine. She's coming along swimmingly, and I've mapped everything out >> pretty well in a 8 page layered diagram that I'm happy to email direct to >> anyone who wants it. It's in PowerPoint and about 8mg. >> >> My question about Grounding is if it's ok to use my engine as the >> grounding point? I'm using the similar area for the Negative connection for >> the 3 battery banks, but a different bolt to the engine case. Several >> appliances including the breaker panels, ACR, battery charger, water >> heater, fuel tank, etc require a ground and I'm using a 6 awg green wire >> from the engine to a large Blue Sea busbar. Then connected the grounds to >> it. >> >> I've also run a 2awg wire from the mast step to the keel bolt and to one >> of the stanchion bases from underneath for lightning protection. However I >> kept that all separated and not connected to the grounding. >> >> Make sense? Or am I missing something? Again, happy to send my diagram >> for review. >> >> Regards, >> Brian >> South FL >> >> >> >> -- Forwarded message -- >> From: Joe Della Barba >> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com >> Cc: >> Bcc: >> Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 07:52:37 -0400 >> Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding >> >> Don't use the engine for ship's ground. Use one of these: >> >> >> https://www.bluesea.com/products/2127/MaxiBus_250A_BusBar_-_Four_5_16in-18_Studs >> >> Your AC ground bus will connect to that ground point as well. Speaking of >> AC, make sure you have a galvanic isolator. >> >> Run ONE ground wire to the engine. You don't
Re: Stus-List Grounding
Brian. I would love a diagram too. How was the wire extraction process. It all come out? And I am curious as to how you are running the new wires. Seems very little room in my 1981s overhead for cabin lights Thanks Sent from my Android. Please forgive typos. Thank you. From: CnC-List on behalf of Josh Muckley via CnC-List Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 8:51:43 AM To: C&C List Cc: Josh Muckley Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding Negative battery goes to the ground buss too. ONE wire from the ground buss to the engine. Josh Muckley S /V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD On Sat, May 30, 2020, 08:12 Brian Davis via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: Gotcha. I sent you my diagram. Just want to make sure I'm clear. So the Grounding bus and the Negative battery both connect to the same engine bolt? On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 8:10 AM Joe Della Barba via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: You do run a wire to the engine, usually 2 gauge, but only one. Many boats ends up using the engine block as a ground bus with wires hooked up all over it. Joe On 5/30/2020 8:01 AM, Brian Davis via CnC-List wrote: Thanks, Joe! I did get a galvanic isolatot, but forgot to say that. The Blue Sea bus link you sent is exactly what i have. But what does that connect to? If not the engine then where? Brian On Sat, May 30, 2020, 7:53 AM Joe Della Barba via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: Don't use the engine for ship's ground. Use one of these: https://www.bluesea.com/products/2127/MaxiBus_250A_BusBar_-_Four_5_16in-18_Studs Your AC ground bus will connect to that ground point as well. Speaking of AC, make sure you have a galvanic isolator. Run ONE ground wire to the engine. You don't want your engine block to be a routine conductor of electricity. Here is your lightning ground conundrum: The old way was to connect all metal together. Coquina came with a ground wire system that connected every single thru-hull, the mast step, the engine and the keel. The problem with that is if the zinc does not work perfectly, you can have electrolysis on a large scale since you have all this metal wired together. I undid all that, no thru-hulls are wired to anything. The mast is wired to a keel bolt with 4 gauge wire. The ship's ground bus is wired to the engine with one ground wire. Joe Coquina On 5/30/2020 7:32 AM, Brian Davis via CnC-List wrote: Hello everyone, Hope you quarantine projects are going well. I have a question about grounding. I'm currently refitting ALL wiring from scratch on our 1980 Landfall 38. I literally gutted every piece of wire and bought all new Ancor tinned marine cables in every guage you can imagine. She's coming along swimmingly, and I've mapped everything out pretty well in a 8 page layered diagram that I'm happy to email direct to anyone who wants it. It's in PowerPoint and about 8mg. My question about Grounding is if it's ok to use my engine as the grounding point? I'm using the similar area for the Negative connection for the 3 battery banks, but a different bolt to the engine case. Several appliances including the breaker panels, ACR, battery charger, water heater, fuel tank, etc require a ground and I'm using a 6 awg green wire from the engine to a large Blue Sea busbar. Then connected the grounds to it. I've also run a 2awg wire from the mast step to the keel bolt and to one of the stanchion bases from underneath for lightning protection. However I kept that all separated and not connected to the grounding. Make sense? Or am I missing something? Again, happy to send my diagram for review. Regards, Brian South FL ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray -- Brian Davis 1980 C&C Landfall 38 "Nina" Southeast Florida [https://docs.google.co
Re: Stus-List Grounding
Got it. Thank you to ALL! On Sat, May 30, 2020, 8:52 AM Josh Muckley via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Negative battery goes to the ground buss too. ONE wire from the ground > buss to the engine. > > Josh Muckley > S /V Sea Hawk > 1989 C&C 37+ > Solomons, MD > > > > On Sat, May 30, 2020, 08:12 Brian Davis via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > >> Gotcha. I sent you my diagram. Just want to make sure I'm clear. So the >> Grounding bus and the Negative battery both connect to the same engine bolt? >> >> On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 8:10 AM Joe Della Barba via CnC-List < >> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: >> >>> You do run a wire to the engine, usually 2 gauge, but only one. Many >>> boats ends up using the engine block as a ground bus with wires hooked up >>> all over it. >>> >>> Joe >>> On 5/30/2020 8:01 AM, Brian Davis via CnC-List wrote: >>> >>> Thanks, Joe! >>> >>> I did get a galvanic isolatot, but forgot to say that. The Blue Sea bus >>> link you sent is exactly what i have. But what does that connect to? If not >>> the engine then where? >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> On Sat, May 30, 2020, 7:53 AM Joe Della Barba via CnC-List < >>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: >>> Don't use the engine for ship's ground. Use one of these: https://www.bluesea.com/products/2127/MaxiBus_250A_BusBar_-_Four_5_16in-18_Studs Your AC ground bus will connect to that ground point as well. Speaking of AC, make sure you have a galvanic isolator. Run ONE ground wire to the engine. You don't want your engine block to be a routine conductor of electricity. Here is your lightning ground conundrum: The old way was to connect all metal together. Coquina came with a ground wire system that connected every single thru-hull, the mast step, the engine and the keel. The problem with that is if the zinc does not work perfectly, you can have electrolysis on a large scale since you have all this metal wired together. I undid all that, no thru-hulls are wired to anything. The mast is wired to a keel bolt with 4 gauge wire. The ship's ground bus is wired to the engine with one ground wire. Joe Coquina On 5/30/2020 7:32 AM, Brian Davis via CnC-List wrote: Hello everyone, Hope you quarantine projects are going well. I have a question about grounding. I'm currently refitting ALL wiring from scratch on our 1980 Landfall 38. I literally gutted every piece of wire and bought all new Ancor tinned marine cables in every guage you can imagine. She's coming along swimmingly, and I've mapped everything out pretty well in a 8 page layered diagram that I'm happy to email direct to anyone who wants it. It's in PowerPoint and about 8mg. My question about Grounding is if it's ok to use my engine as the grounding point? I'm using the similar area for the Negative connection for the 3 battery banks, but a different bolt to the engine case. Several appliances including the breaker panels, ACR, battery charger, water heater, fuel tank, etc require a ground and I'm using a 6 awg green wire from the engine to a large Blue Sea busbar. Then connected the grounds to it. I've also run a 2awg wire from the mast step to the keel bolt and to one of the stanchion bases from underneath for lightning protection. However I kept that all separated and not connected to the grounding. Make sense? Or am I missing something? Again, happy to send my diagram for review. Regards, Brian South FL ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >>> ___ >>> >>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and >>> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use >>> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >>> >>> ___ >>> >>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each >>> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - >>> use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Brian Davis >> 1980 C&C Landfall 38 >> "Nina" >> Southeast Florida >> ___ >> >> Thanks everyone for supporting th
Re: Stus-List Grounding
Negative battery goes to the ground buss too. ONE wire from the ground buss to the engine. Josh Muckley S /V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD On Sat, May 30, 2020, 08:12 Brian Davis via CnC-List wrote: > Gotcha. I sent you my diagram. Just want to make sure I'm clear. So the > Grounding bus and the Negative battery both connect to the same engine bolt? > > On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 8:10 AM Joe Della Barba via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > >> You do run a wire to the engine, usually 2 gauge, but only one. Many >> boats ends up using the engine block as a ground bus with wires hooked up >> all over it. >> >> Joe >> On 5/30/2020 8:01 AM, Brian Davis via CnC-List wrote: >> >> Thanks, Joe! >> >> I did get a galvanic isolatot, but forgot to say that. The Blue Sea bus >> link you sent is exactly what i have. But what does that connect to? If not >> the engine then where? >> >> Brian >> >> On Sat, May 30, 2020, 7:53 AM Joe Della Barba via CnC-List < >> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: >> >>> Don't use the engine for ship's ground. Use one of these: >>> >>> >>> https://www.bluesea.com/products/2127/MaxiBus_250A_BusBar_-_Four_5_16in-18_Studs >>> >>> Your AC ground bus will connect to that ground point as well. Speaking >>> of AC, make sure you have a galvanic isolator. >>> >>> Run ONE ground wire to the engine. You don't want your engine block to >>> be a routine conductor of electricity. >>> >>> Here is your lightning ground conundrum: The old way was to connect all >>> metal together. Coquina came with a ground wire system that connected every >>> single thru-hull, the mast step, the engine and the keel. The problem with >>> that is if the zinc does not work perfectly, you can have electrolysis on a >>> large scale since you have all this metal wired together. I undid all that, >>> no thru-hulls are wired to anything. The mast is wired to a keel bolt with >>> 4 gauge wire. The ship's ground bus is wired to the engine with one ground >>> wire. >>> >>> >>> Joe Coquina >>> On 5/30/2020 7:32 AM, Brian Davis via CnC-List wrote: >>> >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> Hope you quarantine projects are going well. >>> >>> I have a question about grounding. I'm currently refitting ALL wiring >>> from scratch on our 1980 Landfall 38. I literally gutted every piece of >>> wire and bought all new Ancor tinned marine cables in every guage you can >>> imagine. She's coming along swimmingly, and I've mapped everything out >>> pretty well in a 8 page layered diagram that I'm happy to email direct to >>> anyone who wants it. It's in PowerPoint and about 8mg. >>> >>> My question about Grounding is if it's ok to use my engine as the >>> grounding point? I'm using the similar area for the Negative connection for >>> the 3 battery banks, but a different bolt to the engine case. Several >>> appliances including the breaker panels, ACR, battery charger, water >>> heater, fuel tank, etc require a ground and I'm using a 6 awg green wire >>> from the engine to a large Blue Sea busbar. Then connected the grounds to >>> it. >>> >>> I've also run a 2awg wire from the mast step to the keel bolt and to one >>> of the stanchion bases from underneath for lightning protection. However I >>> kept that all separated and not connected to the grounding. >>> >>> Make sense? Or am I missing something? Again, happy to send my diagram >>> for review. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Brian >>> South FL >>> >>> ___ >>> >>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and >>> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use >>> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >>> >>> ___ >>> >>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each >>> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - >>> use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >>> >>> >> ___ >> >> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and >> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use >> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> >> ___ >> >> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each >> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - >> use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> >> > > -- > Brian Davis > 1980 C&C Landfall 38 > "Nina" > Southeast Florida > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this
Re: Stus-List Grounding
Agree with Joe's comment.the engine must be grounded but should not be used as your primary grounding point. there are a buncha' good reasons for this. Another thing to consider is providing for an upgrade the battery/power monitoring, for which you may need to install a resistive shunt between the battery and the various grounds you wish to monitor, Here's a photo of the shunt (on the right) and ground bus (left) in my 33-2, you can see the ground bus and various grounds attached, this bus is connected to one side of the shunt, the other side of which is connected to the house breaker panel and the other accessories that are measured by my battery/power consumption monitor. This is the shunt that victron provides with the BMV-700. https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LeNHHo5kK2k/V5V0MaFJ_cI/Akc/VI_Cm3z-Aa0m_dZ9AmlgaeVdXmXQOINkgCLcB/s1600/blog%2Bgrounding%2B2.jpg Dave -- Forwarded message -- From: Brian Davis To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Bcc: Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 07:32:16 -0400 Subject: Stus-List Grounding Hello everyone, Hope you quarantine projects are going well. I have a question about grounding. I'm currently refitting ALL wiring from scratch on our 1980 Landfall 38. I literally gutted every piece of wire and bought all new Ancor tinned marine cables in every guage you can imagine. She's coming along swimmingly, and I've mapped everything out pretty well in a 8 page layered diagram that I'm happy to email direct to anyone who wants it. It's in PowerPoint and about 8mg. My question about Grounding is if it's ok to use my engine as the grounding point? I'm using the similar area for the Negative connection for the 3 battery banks, but a different bolt to the engine case. Several appliances including the breaker panels, ACR, battery charger, water heater, fuel tank, etc require a ground and I'm using a 6 awg green wire from the engine to a large Blue Sea busbar. Then connected the grounds to it. I've also run a 2awg wire from the mast step to the keel bolt and to one of the stanchion bases from underneath for lightning protection. However I kept that all separated and not connected to the grounding. Make sense? Or am I missing something? Again, happy to send my diagram for review. Regards, Brian South FL -- Forwarded message -- From: Joe Della Barba To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Bcc: Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 07:52:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding Don't use the engine for ship's ground. Use one of these: https://www.bluesea.com/products/2127/MaxiBus_250A_BusBar_-_Four_5_16in-18_Studs Your AC ground bus will connect to that ground point as well. Speaking of AC, make sure you have a galvanic isolator. Run ONE ground wire to the engine. You don't want your engine block to be a routine conductor of electricity. Here is your lightning ground conundrum: The old way was to connect all metal together. Coquina came with a ground wire system that connected every single thru-hull, the mast step, the engine and the keel. The problem with that is if the zinc does not work perfectly, you can have electrolysis on a large scale since you have all this metal wired together. I undid all that, no thru-hulls are wired to anything. The mast is wired to a keel bolt with 4 gauge wire. The ship's ground bus is wired to the engine with one ground wire. Joe Coquina On 5/30/2020 7:32 AM, Brian Davis via CnC-List wrote: Hello everyone, Hope you quarantine projects are going well. I have a question about grounding. I'm currently refitting ALL wiring from scratch on our 1980 Landfall 38. I literally gutted every piece of wire and bought all new Ancor tinned marine cables in every guage you can imagine. She's coming along swimmingly, and I've mapped everything out pretty well in a 8 page layered diagram that I'm happy to email direct to anyone who wants it. It's in PowerPoint and about 8mg. My question about Grounding is if it's ok to use my engine as the grounding point? I'm using the similar area for the Negative connection for the 3 battery banks, but a different bolt to the engine case. Several appliances including the breaker panels, ACR, battery charger, water heater, fuel tank, etc require a ground and I'm using a 6 awg green wire from the engine to a large Blue Sea busbar. Then connected the grounds to it. I've also run a 2awg wire from the mast step to the keel bolt and to one of the stanchion bases from underneath for lightning protection. However I kept that all separated and not connected to the grounding. Make sense? Or am I missing something? Again, happy to send my diagram for review. Regards, Brian South FL ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to se
Re: Stus-List Grounding
Gotcha. I sent you my diagram. Just want to make sure I'm clear. So the Grounding bus and the Negative battery both connect to the same engine bolt? On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 8:10 AM Joe Della Barba via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > You do run a wire to the engine, usually 2 gauge, but only one. Many boats > ends up using the engine block as a ground bus with wires hooked up all > over it. > > Joe > On 5/30/2020 8:01 AM, Brian Davis via CnC-List wrote: > > Thanks, Joe! > > I did get a galvanic isolatot, but forgot to say that. The Blue Sea bus > link you sent is exactly what i have. But what does that connect to? If not > the engine then where? > > Brian > > On Sat, May 30, 2020, 7:53 AM Joe Della Barba via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > >> Don't use the engine for ship's ground. Use one of these: >> >> >> https://www.bluesea.com/products/2127/MaxiBus_250A_BusBar_-_Four_5_16in-18_Studs >> >> Your AC ground bus will connect to that ground point as well. Speaking of >> AC, make sure you have a galvanic isolator. >> >> Run ONE ground wire to the engine. You don't want your engine block to >> be a routine conductor of electricity. >> >> Here is your lightning ground conundrum: The old way was to connect all >> metal together. Coquina came with a ground wire system that connected every >> single thru-hull, the mast step, the engine and the keel. The problem with >> that is if the zinc does not work perfectly, you can have electrolysis on a >> large scale since you have all this metal wired together. I undid all that, >> no thru-hulls are wired to anything. The mast is wired to a keel bolt with >> 4 gauge wire. The ship's ground bus is wired to the engine with one ground >> wire. >> >> >> Joe Coquina >> On 5/30/2020 7:32 AM, Brian Davis via CnC-List wrote: >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> Hope you quarantine projects are going well. >> >> I have a question about grounding. I'm currently refitting ALL wiring >> from scratch on our 1980 Landfall 38. I literally gutted every piece of >> wire and bought all new Ancor tinned marine cables in every guage you can >> imagine. She's coming along swimmingly, and I've mapped everything out >> pretty well in a 8 page layered diagram that I'm happy to email direct to >> anyone who wants it. It's in PowerPoint and about 8mg. >> >> My question about Grounding is if it's ok to use my engine as the >> grounding point? I'm using the similar area for the Negative connection for >> the 3 battery banks, but a different bolt to the engine case. Several >> appliances including the breaker panels, ACR, battery charger, water >> heater, fuel tank, etc require a ground and I'm using a 6 awg green wire >> from the engine to a large Blue Sea busbar. Then connected the grounds to >> it. >> >> I've also run a 2awg wire from the mast step to the keel bolt and to one >> of the stanchion bases from underneath for lightning protection. However I >> kept that all separated and not connected to the grounding. >> >> Make sense? Or am I missing something? Again, happy to send my diagram >> for review. >> >> Regards, >> Brian >> South FL >> >> ___ >> >> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and >> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use >> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> >> ___ >> >> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each >> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - >> use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> >> > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and > every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > -- Brian Davis 1980 C&C Landfall 38 "Nina" Southeast Florida ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Grounding
You do run a wire to the engine, usually 2 gauge, but only one. Many boats ends up using the engine block as a ground bus with wires hooked up all over it. Joe On 5/30/2020 8:01 AM, Brian Davis via CnC-List wrote: Thanks, Joe! I did get a galvanic isolatot, but forgot to say that. The Blue Sea bus link you sent is exactly what i have. But what does that connect to? If not the engine then where? Brian On Sat, May 30, 2020, 7:53 AM Joe Della Barba via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: Don't use the engine for ship's ground. Use one of these: https://www.bluesea.com/products/2127/MaxiBus_250A_BusBar_-_Four_5_16in-18_Studs Your AC ground bus will connect to that ground point as well. Speaking of AC, make sure you have a galvanic isolator. Run ONE ground wire to the engine. You don't want your engine block to be a routine conductor of electricity. Here is your lightning ground conundrum: The old way was to connect all metal together. Coquina came with a ground wire system that connected every single thru-hull, the mast step, the engine and the keel. The problem with that is if the zinc does not work perfectly, you can have electrolysis on a large scale since you have all this metal wired together. I undid all that, no thru-hulls are wired to anything. The mast is wired to a keel bolt with 4 gauge wire. The ship's ground bus is wired to the engine with one ground wire. Joe Coquina On 5/30/2020 7:32 AM, Brian Davis via CnC-List wrote: Hello everyone, Hope you quarantine projects are going well. I have a question about grounding. I'm currently refitting ALL wiring from scratch on our 1980 Landfall 38. I literally gutted every piece of wire and bought all new Ancor tinned marine cables in every guage you can imagine. She's coming along swimmingly, and I've mapped everything out pretty well in a 8 page layered diagram that I'm happy to email direct to anyone who wants it. It's in PowerPoint and about 8mg. My question about Grounding is if it's ok to use my engine as the grounding point? I'm using the similar area for the Negative connection for the 3 battery banks, but a different bolt to the engine case. Several appliances including the breaker panels, ACR, battery charger, water heater, fuel tank, etc require a ground and I'm using a 6 awg green wire from the engine to a large Blue Sea busbar. Then connected the grounds to it. I've also run a 2awg wire from the mast step to the keel bolt and to one of the stanchion bases from underneath for lightning protection. However I kept that all separated and not connected to the grounding. Make sense? Or am I missing something? Again, happy to send my diagram for review. Regards, Brian South FL ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution --https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Grounding
Thanks, Joe! I did get a galvanic isolatot, but forgot to say that. The Blue Sea bus link you sent is exactly what i have. But what does that connect to? If not the engine then where? Brian On Sat, May 30, 2020, 7:53 AM Joe Della Barba via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Don't use the engine for ship's ground. Use one of these: > > > https://www.bluesea.com/products/2127/MaxiBus_250A_BusBar_-_Four_5_16in-18_Studs > > Your AC ground bus will connect to that ground point as well. Speaking of > AC, make sure you have a galvanic isolator. > > Run ONE ground wire to the engine. You don't want your engine block to be > a routine conductor of electricity. > > Here is your lightning ground conundrum: The old way was to connect all > metal together. Coquina came with a ground wire system that connected every > single thru-hull, the mast step, the engine and the keel. The problem with > that is if the zinc does not work perfectly, you can have electrolysis on a > large scale since you have all this metal wired together. I undid all that, > no thru-hulls are wired to anything. The mast is wired to a keel bolt with > 4 gauge wire. The ship's ground bus is wired to the engine with one ground > wire. > > > Joe Coquina > On 5/30/2020 7:32 AM, Brian Davis via CnC-List wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > Hope you quarantine projects are going well. > > I have a question about grounding. I'm currently refitting ALL wiring from > scratch on our 1980 Landfall 38. I literally gutted every piece of wire and > bought all new Ancor tinned marine cables in every guage you can imagine. > She's coming along swimmingly, and I've mapped everything out pretty well > in a 8 page layered diagram that I'm happy to email direct to anyone who > wants it. It's in PowerPoint and about 8mg. > > My question about Grounding is if it's ok to use my engine as the > grounding point? I'm using the similar area for the Negative connection for > the 3 battery banks, but a different bolt to the engine case. Several > appliances including the breaker panels, ACR, battery charger, water > heater, fuel tank, etc require a ground and I'm using a 6 awg green wire > from the engine to a large Blue Sea busbar. Then connected the grounds to > it. > > I've also run a 2awg wire from the mast step to the keel bolt and to one > of the stanchion bases from underneath for lightning protection. However I > kept that all separated and not connected to the grounding. > > Make sense? Or am I missing something? Again, happy to send my diagram for > review. > > Regards, > Brian > South FL > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and > every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Grounding
Don't use the engine for ship's ground. Use one of these: https://www.bluesea.com/products/2127/MaxiBus_250A_BusBar_-_Four_5_16in-18_Studs Your AC ground bus will connect to that ground point as well. Speaking of AC, make sure you have a galvanic isolator. Run ONE ground wire to the engine. You don't want your engine block to be a routine conductor of electricity. Here is your lightning ground conundrum: The old way was to connect all metal together. Coquina came with a ground wire system that connected every single thru-hull, the mast step, the engine and the keel. The problem with that is if the zinc does not work perfectly, you can have electrolysis on a large scale since you have all this metal wired together. I undid all that, no thru-hulls are wired to anything. The mast is wired to a keel bolt with 4 gauge wire. The ship's ground bus is wired to the engine with one ground wire. Joe Coquina On 5/30/2020 7:32 AM, Brian Davis via CnC-List wrote: Hello everyone, Hope you quarantine projects are going well. I have a question about grounding. I'm currently refitting ALL wiring from scratch on our 1980 Landfall 38. I literally gutted every piece of wire and bought all new Ancor tinned marine cables in every guage you can imagine. She's coming along swimmingly, and I've mapped everything out pretty well in a 8 page layered diagram that I'm happy to email direct to anyone who wants it. It's in PowerPoint and about 8mg. My question about Grounding is if it's ok to use my engine as the grounding point? I'm using the similar area for the Negative connection for the 3 battery banks, but a different bolt to the engine case. Several appliances including the breaker panels, ACR, battery charger, water heater, fuel tank, etc require a ground and I'm using a 6 awg green wire from the engine to a large Blue Sea busbar. Then connected the grounds to it. I've also run a 2awg wire from the mast step to the keel bolt and to one of the stanchion bases from underneath for lightning protection. However I kept that all separated and not connected to the grounding. Make sense? Or am I missing something? Again, happy to send my diagram for review. Regards, Brian South FL ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Stus-List Grounding
Hello everyone, Hope you quarantine projects are going well. I have a question about grounding. I'm currently refitting ALL wiring from scratch on our 1980 Landfall 38. I literally gutted every piece of wire and bought all new Ancor tinned marine cables in every guage you can imagine. She's coming along swimmingly, and I've mapped everything out pretty well in a 8 page layered diagram that I'm happy to email direct to anyone who wants it. It's in PowerPoint and about 8mg. My question about Grounding is if it's ok to use my engine as the grounding point? I'm using the similar area for the Negative connection for the 3 battery banks, but a different bolt to the engine case. Several appliances including the breaker panels, ACR, battery charger, water heater, fuel tank, etc require a ground and I'm using a 6 awg green wire from the engine to a large Blue Sea busbar. Then connected the grounds to it. I've also run a 2awg wire from the mast step to the keel bolt and to one of the stanchion bases from underneath for lightning protection. However I kept that all separated and not connected to the grounding. Make sense? Or am I missing something? Again, happy to send my diagram for review. Regards, Brian South FL ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Grounding chart plotter
Dave, Very good question. I’m no expert but here is my understanding and my solution. Since you do not have an RF ground, you can get by with grounding the shield wire to the battery ground. In principle, you should not use the same negative wire as used for supplying power. The reason is that the regular DC ground can pick up noise from other devices (most notably motors: fans, water pumps, autopilots, …) and/or not be at the true battery ground/negative voltage due to I*R voltage drop of the wire length to the battery. This noise can cause problems with device communications (i.e. NEMA-0183 & N2k variants ) and the operation of some electronic devices. Connecting the shield wire close to the battery makes it easier for the noise to drain to the battery and less likely to affect your device. That stated, I have all my device shields wires connected to the battery, but I have done so through a separate ground buss bar which I then have directly connected via a short thick wire to my main DC ground buss bar. All is working well. An additional advantage of using a separate buss is that in the future I can easily make it a part of bonafide isolated RF grounding system for a future SSB (i.e. with parallel capacitors joining the RF ground to the DC ground as shown in the photo linked below. http://newcontent.westmarine.com/content/wm-img/WestAdvisor/articles/Marine-Grounding-4.jpg <http://newcontent.westmarine.com/content/wm-img/WestAdvisor/articles/Marine-Grounding-4.jpg> - Paul E. 1981 C&C 38 Landfall S/V Johanna Rose Carrabelle, FL http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/ > On Apr 13, 2017, at 7:05 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: > > Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 07:04:19 -0400 > From: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com>> > To: CnC CnC discussion list <mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>> > Subject: Stus-List Grounding chart plotter > Message-ID: <788f7990-9eb6-45d8-b9f9-0e7bdce62...@gmail.com > <mailto:788f7990-9eb6-45d8-b9f9-0e7bdce62...@gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi- I am installing a new Raymarine e95 chart plotter and am confused by the > instructions with respect to grounding. The cable includes both a Negative > (black) wire and a black Ground (drain) wire. Here is what the install > manual says: > Grounding ? Dedicated drain wire > > The power cable supplied with this product includes a dedicated shield > (drain) wire for connection to a vessel's RF ground point. > > It is important that an effective RF ground is connected to the system. A > single ground point should be used for all equipment. The unit can be > grounded by connecting the shield (drain) wire of the power cable to the > vessel's RF ground point. On vessels without an RF ground system the shield > (drain) wire should be connected directly to the negative battery terminal. > > The dc power system should be either: > > Negative grounded, with the negative battery terminal connected to the > vessel's ground. > Floating, with neither battery terminal connected to the vessel's ground > > > I have never heard of a RF ground point or a drain wire or a floating ground. > I can?t find anything about this in Nigel Calder?s book. Can someone clarify > what this is about and how to wire it? Thanks- Dave > > Aries > 1990 C&C 34+ > New London, CT ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Grounding chart plotter
Dave — tie the shield to the negative power wire at the power supply lead to the plotter. I’m sure there’s no RF grounding system on most of our boats; you start seeing it on larger vessels or those with SSB installations. — Fred Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( > On Apr 13, 2017, at 6:04 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List > wrote: > > Hi- I am installing a new Raymarine e95 chart plotter and am confused by the > instructions with respect to grounding. The cable includes both a Negative > (black) wire and a black Ground (drain) wire. Here is what the install > manual says: > Grounding — Dedicated drain wire > > The power cable supplied with this product includes a dedicated shield > (drain) wire for connection to a vessel's RF ground point. > > It is important that an effective RF ground is connected to the system. A > single ground point should be used for all equipment. The unit can be > grounded by connecting the shield (drain) wire of the power cable to the > vessel's RF ground point. On vessels without an RF ground system the shield > (drain) wire should be connected directly to the negative battery terminal. > > The dc power system should be either: > > Negative grounded, with the negative battery terminal connected to the > vessel's ground. > Floating, with neither battery terminal connected to the vessel's ground > > > I have never heard of a RF ground point or a drain wire or a floating ground. > I can’t find anything about this in Nigel Calder’s book. Can someone clarify > what this is about and how to wire it? Thanks- Dave > > Aries > 1990 C&C 34+ > New London, CT ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List Grounding chart plotter
Hi- I am installing a new Raymarine e95 chart plotter and am confused by the instructions with respect to grounding. The cable includes both a Negative (black) wire and a black Ground (drain) wire. Here is what the install manual says: Grounding — Dedicated drain wire The power cable supplied with this product includes a dedicated shield (drain) wire for connection to a vessel's RF ground point. It is important that an effective RF ground is connected to the system. A single ground point should be used for all equipment. The unit can be grounded by connecting the shield (drain) wire of the power cable to the vessel's RF ground point. On vessels without an RF ground system the shield (drain) wire should be connected directly to the negative battery terminal. The dc power system should be either: Negative grounded, with the negative battery terminal connected to the vessel's ground. Floating, with neither battery terminal connected to the vessel's ground I have never heard of a RF ground point or a drain wire or a floating ground. I can’t find anything about this in Nigel Calder’s book. Can someone clarify what this is about and how to wire it? Thanks- Dave Aries 1990 C&C 34+ New London, CT ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki
I had lightning hit the water about 2 boat lengths from me while sailing. It raised a nice splash of water/steam about 6 feet in the air. I then contemplated my shoulder sitting against the backstay, my hands on the stainless steel wheel grounded through the rudder cables, and moved over a bit! Thread creep – metal airplanes generally survive lightning strikes with little to no damage. I have been hit twice while flying and not much happened either time besides for having to reset the radios for one. Fiberglass airplanes can be blown to pieces by lighting and need to have a conductive mesh embedded in the skin of the plane to be certified for flying in bad weather conditions. PS – If you haven’t read this, please do: http://www.marinelightning.com/Siedarc.htm Note the concept for maximum protection is making sure all metal is connected together on their sample sailboat with multiple terminals to discharge into the water. The idea is no lighting will be wanting to jump from one part of the boat to another with a person or expensive item potentially in the way. PPS – When I in the business, about 75% of lighting repairs we did were from lighting coming up the shore power cord from a hit on a nearby boat or power pole. Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35 MK I From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Coleman via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 09:42 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Bill Coleman Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki Now that would have made one hell of a YouTube Video! Bill Coleman C&C 39 Erie, PA Last week a soft ball player in Nova Scotia was hit and survived. As she reached out to open the door on a storage shed, the shed was struck by lightning. The current went up her arm and out her foot, with only minor burns to the surface of her skin, but her clothing was "blown to bits". After a night's observation in hospital, she reported still feeling weak from having all her muscles contracted, but otherwise ok. Steve Thomas C&C27 MKIII Port Stanley, ON ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki
Now that would have made one hell of a YouTube Video! Bill Coleman C&C 39 Erie, PA Last week a soft ball player in Nova Scotia was hit and survived. As she reached out to open the door on a storage shed, the shed was struck by lightning. The current went up her arm and out her foot, with only minor burns to the surface of her skin, but her clothing was "blown to bits". After a night's observation in hospital, she reported still feeling weak from having all her muscles contracted, but otherwise ok. Steve Thomas C&C27 MKIII Port Stanley, ON ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki
I've heard of using copper pipe (1/2 or 3/4) and a conduit bender. Shape the pipe to go as straight as possible between a keel bolt and the mast. Then flatten the ends and drill a hole to accept a large bolt. You can drill and tap the very top of one of the keel bolts to accept a short 5/16ths or 3/8ths bolt and probably reuse an existing base bolt on the mast. Corrosion at the contacts is your enemy. The copper will naturally corrode with the aluminum mast and stainless bolts. You might try tinning the terminations with a torch and solder. You could actually tin the whole pipe. You might also try tef-gel or silicone grease on the contacts. Its kind of a toss up between the insulating properties of the grease and the insulating properties of corrosion. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD On Jul 25, 2016 10:00 AM, "Ryan Doyle via CnC-List" wrote: > Hey guys, > > Wondering if anyone can describe to me how they've ground their mast. I > have a 1976 30mki and we got caught out in a very fast-moving t-storm this > weekend and I realized I should have done this when I bought the boat last > fall. My mast step is not original. It is a big, fat piece of mahogany - > which I envision blasting apart if the mast took a direct strike. > > The only idea I've had is using a steel ring clamp to attach a terminal on > a very large gauge wire (maybe 2 gauge?) to the bottom of the mast, then > run this wire a foot or two aft and down into the bilge to a keel bolt > where I would have a second ring clamp hold the wire's terminal to a keel > bolt. I worry about how this would look and I also worry whether it would > even be effective. > > Anyone have a better solution? > > Thanks in advance. Hope you're all having a wonderful sailing summer. > > Ryan > > Sent from my iPhone > > > Sent from my iPhone > ___ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you > like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All > Contributions are greatly appreciated! > ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki
I have a patient who was hit twice by lightning. Once in her house - it hit a tree outside, part of the bolt bounced off, came through her window and hit her in the back of the head while she was sitting in a chair. No reason - other than you can't effectively predict what is going to happen. From what I've read there is so much energy flowing within a lightning bolt that it's jumping along any path it can find. Even if you offer a grounded path there can be enough excess flow that will skip off the path and damage surrounding areas. Or if the grounding wire is not straight some of the electricity won't be able to follow the curve of the wire and will jump to other areas (thus I'm not thinking stainless chain would offer the best grounding path). I don't have a good solution. I'm interested in learning more from the discussion. Mark There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval. - George Santayana On 2016-07-26 2:10 PM, S Thomas via CnC-List wrote: I know a guy who has a length of stainless steel chain stored on deck and connected to the shrouds on each side of the boat. He dumps the chain in the water when he thinks it appropriate. His boat was hit by lightning in the past, but not since he got the chains, so he does not really know how good it works. My big fear would be having the lightning blow out through the transducers and or thru hulls, which has been know to happen. Probably nothing will save the electronics, except maybe a portable radio stored in the oven, but the extra conductors might carry away enough energy to prevent a boat-sinking hole in the hull. At least that is the theory. There are a lot of sailboats that have been hit by lightning which failed to sink. That nothing reliable in terms of protection knowledge has come out of all of these close calls only goes to show how much luck is involved. Last week a soft ball player in Nova Scotia was hit and survived. As she reached out to open the door on a storage shed, the shed was struck by lightning. The current went up her arm and out her foot, with only minor burns to the surface of her skin, but her clothing was "blown to bits". After a night's observation in hospital, she reported still feeling weak from having all her muscles contracted, but otherwise ok. Steve Thomas C&C27 MKIII Port Stanley, ON - Original Message - From: Ryan Doyle via CnC-List To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Ryan Doyle Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 12:16 Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki Thanks to Joe and everyone else who replied. After reading a few articles like this one - http://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/-11222-1.html, it sounds like there is little consensus on lightning protection for sailboats. I'd be curious to know what sort of lightning protection, if any, comes standard on new boats from the well-regarded manufacturers of heavy displacement cruisers like Hallberg Rassy etc. I just searched the manual for a new HR boat and there's no mention of lightning or lightning protection at all. Someone raised the point on one forum that inviting this massive amount of energy into your boat is a bad idea (IE a cable going from the mast to a keel bolt). Not sure whether this is a well-founded concern or not, but I'm leaning towards Joe's idea of clipping some jumpstart cables to the shrouds and hanging them overboard next time I'm caught out in a storm. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki
You are wrong or lightning rods would not work. Of course nothing is 100%, but buildings have been protected by thick wire running from lightning rods to ground since the 1770s. While we were headed out to our mooring in Annapolis over the 4th of July weekend a wicked thunderstorm was providing quite the lightning show. My dogs were both trying to get under my legs and once and the Statehouse was hit. The original equipment Ben Franklin lightning rod did work and the State House is still standing ☺ Joe Coquina From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 12:17 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Ronald B. Frerker Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki Correct me if wrong, but I was under the impression that no wire size could carry the load of a lightning strike. The grounding is to bleed off the induced charge at the top of the mast due to the field, which in turn reduces the lightning attraction to the mast. Ron Wild Cheri C&C 30-1 STL From: Robert Boyer via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: Robert Boyer mailto:dainyr...@icloud.com>> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 10:39 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki Lightning is actually attracted to a grounded object. My boat has been hit by lightning twice--mast was grounded to keel bolt. Most of my electronics were fried each time. So, if anyone claims that grounding works, I think they have been more lucky than wise. Bob ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki
We already invite the energy into the boat unless you have a deck stepped mast. Giving it heavy wire to follow to the keel beats having the lightning find a random way out. Joe Coquina From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Doyle via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 12:16 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Ryan Doyle Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki Thanks to Joe and everyone else who replied. After reading a few articles like this one - http://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/-11222-1.html, it sounds like there is little consensus on lightning protection for sailboats. I'd be curious to know what sort of lightning protection, if any, comes standard on new boats from the well-regarded manufacturers of heavy displacement cruisers like Hallberg Rassy etc. I just searched the manual for a new HR boat and there's no mention of lightning or lightning protection at all. Someone raised the point on one forum that inviting this massive amount of energy into your boat is a bad idea (IE a cable going from the mast to a keel bolt). Not sure whether this is a well-founded concern or not, but I'm leaning towards Joe's idea of clipping some jumpstart cables to the shrouds and hanging them overboard next time I'm caught out in a storm. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki
FWIW... I was listening to a a presentation at a Safety at Sea seminar (I forgot who the presenter was) an he said he examined 350 (or so) lightning strikes that was on the books (I think they were insurance claims). Not one boat, he said, was hit while moving. May or may not help but I thought it was a fascinating fact... David F. Risch 1981 40-2 (401) 419-4650 (cell) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 13:10:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com CC: sthom...@bellnet.ca I know a guy who has a length of stainless steel chain stored on deck and connected to the shrouds on each side of the boat. He dumps the chain in the water when he thinks it appropriate. His boat was hit by lightning in the past, but not since he got the chains, so he does not really know how good it works. My big fear would be having the lightning blow out through the transducers and or thru hulls, which has been know to happen. Probably nothing will save the electronics, except maybe a portable radio stored in the oven, but the extra conductors might carry away enough energy to prevent a boat-sinking hole in the hull. At least that is the theory. There are a lot of sailboats that have been hit by lightning which failed to sink. That nothing reliable in terms of protection knowledge has come out of all of these close calls only goes to show how much luck is involved. Last week a soft ball player in Nova Scotia was hit and survived. As she reached out to open the door on a storage shed, the shed was struck by lightning. The current went up her arm and out her foot, with only minor burns to the surface of her skin, but her clothing was "blown to bits". After a night's observation in hospital, she reported still feeling weak from having all her muscles contracted, but otherwise ok. Steve Thomas C&C27 MKIII Port Stanley, ON - Original Message - From: Ryan Doyle via CnC-List To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Ryan Doyle Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 12:16 Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki Thanks to Joe and everyone else who replied. After reading a few articles like this one - http://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/-11222-1.html, it sounds like there is little consensus on lightning protection for sailboats. I'd be curious to know what sort of lightning protection, if any, comes standard on new boats from the well-regarded manufacturers of heavy displacement cruisers like Hallberg Rassy etc. I just searched the manual for a new HR boat and there's no mention of lightning or lightning protection at all. Someone raised the point on one forum that inviting this massive amount of energy into your boat is a bad idea (IE a cable going from the mast to a keel bolt). Not sure whether this is a well-founded concern or not, but I'm leaning towards Joe's idea of clipping some jumpstart cables to the shrouds and hanging them overboard next time I'm caught out in a storm. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! Virus-free. www.avast.com ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki
I know a guy who has a length of stainless steel chain stored on deck and connected to the shrouds on each side of the boat. He dumps the chain in the water when he thinks it appropriate. His boat was hit by lightning in the past, but not since he got the chains, so he does not really know how good it works. My big fear would be having the lightning blow out through the transducers and or thru hulls, which has been know to happen. Probably nothing will save the electronics, except maybe a portable radio stored in the oven, but the extra conductors might carry away enough energy to prevent a boat-sinking hole in the hull. At least that is the theory. There are a lot of sailboats that have been hit by lightning which failed to sink. That nothing reliable in terms of protection knowledge has come out of all of these close calls only goes to show how much luck is involved. Last week a soft ball player in Nova Scotia was hit and survived. As she reached out to open the door on a storage shed, the shed was struck by lightning. The current went up her arm and out her foot, with only minor burns to the surface of her skin, but her clothing was "blown to bits". After a night's observation in hospital, she reported still feeling weak from having all her muscles contracted, but otherwise ok. Steve Thomas C&C27 MKIII Port Stanley, ON - Original Message - From: Ryan Doyle via CnC-List To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Ryan Doyle Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 12:16 Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki Thanks to Joe and everyone else who replied. After reading a few articles like this one - http://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/-11222-1.html, it sounds like there is little consensus on lightning protection for sailboats. I'd be curious to know what sort of lightning protection, if any, comes standard on new boats from the well-regarded manufacturers of heavy displacement cruisers like Hallberg Rassy etc. I just searched the manual for a new HR boat and there's no mention of lightning or lightning protection at all. Someone raised the point on one forum that inviting this massive amount of energy into your boat is a bad idea (IE a cable going from the mast to a keel bolt). Not sure whether this is a well-founded concern or not, but I'm leaning towards Joe's idea of clipping some jumpstart cables to the shrouds and hanging them overboard next time I'm caught out in a storm. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki
Correct me if wrong, but I was under the impression that no wire size could
carry the load of a lightning strike.The grounding is to bleed off the induced
charge at the top of the mast due to the field, which in turn reduces the
lightning attraction to the mast.RonWild CheriC&C 30-1STL
From: Robert Boyer via CnC-List
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Robert Boyer
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki
Lightning is actually attracted to a grounded object. My boat has been hit by
lightning twice--mast was grounded to keel bolt. Most of my electronics were
fried each time. So, if anyone claims that grounding works, I think they have
been more lucky than wise.
Bob
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Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki
Thanks to Joe and everyone else who replied. After reading a few articles like this one - http://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/-11222-1.html, it sounds like there is little consensus on lightning protection for sailboats. I'd be curious to know what sort of lightning protection, if any, comes standard on new boats from the well-regarded manufacturers of heavy displacement cruisers like Hallberg Rassy etc. I just searched the manual for a new HR boat and there's no mention of lightning or lightning protection at all. Someone raised the point on one forum that inviting this massive amount of energy into your boat is a bad idea (IE a cable going from the mast to a keel bolt). Not sure whether this is a well-founded concern or not, but I'm leaning towards Joe's idea of clipping some jumpstart cables to the shrouds and hanging them overboard next time I'm caught out in a storm. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki
That's the same setup I've got on my hull #7 - a cable bolted from cast metal box under mast, to keel bolt. Probably original. I haven't seen one first-hand, but have heard of lightning strikes to sailboats on my lake (Chatfield Reservoir) that have fried electronics and in one case blown a hole in a hull. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Gary Nylander via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Gary Nylander" Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 10:27:54 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki On my 1980 version, I assume the 'grounding' system is original. There is a cast metal box which the mast sits in and which in turn sits on the big oak block. That box has a battery cable bolted to it which is attached to a keel bolt. Hope it works. Gary #593 -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Doyle via CnC-List Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 10:00 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Ryan Doyle Subject: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki Hey guys, Wondering if anyone can describe to me how they've ground their mast. I have a 1976 30mki and we got caught out in a very fast-moving t-storm this weekend and I realized I should have done this when I bought the boat last fall. My mast step is not original. It is a big, fat piece of mahogany - which I envision blasting apart if the mast took a direct strike. The only idea I've had is using a steel ring clamp to attach a terminal on a very large gauge wire (maybe 2 gauge?) to the bottom of the mast, then run this wire a foot or two aft and down into the bilge to a keel bolt where I would have a second ring clamp hold the wire's terminal to a keel bolt. I worry about how this would look and I also worry whether it would even be effective. Anyone have a better solution? Thanks in advance. Hope you're all having a wonderful sailing summer. Ryan Sent from my iPhone Sent from my iPhone ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki
The lightning that hit the boat with an ungrounded deck-stepped mast blew a nice big hole through the bottom of the boat on the way out. Joe Coquina From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 12:10 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Marek Dziedzic Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki This is not exactly the case. Keep in mind that a lighting generates a current in thousands of A. That high current generates magnetic field around it. In turn this magnetic field generates current in any conductor in the neighbourhood (this includes, but is not limited to, any electronic equipment (one assumes that there are some wires in it) and any metal object (e.g. keys in your pocket or the pushpit of the boat)). Grounding (or not) would not prevent the electronics from getting fried; bonding might (provided that it is correctly done and with sufficient wiring). It seems that this is a good practice to ground the mast to the keel bolt, but in no way it provides all the protection you would want to have. Marek 1994 C270 “Legato” Ottawa, ON From: Robert Boyer via CnC-List<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 11:41 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: Robert Boyer<mailto:dainyr...@icloud.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki Lightning is actually attracted to a grounded object. My boat has been hit by lightning twice--mast was grounded to keel bolt. Most of my electronics were fried each time. So, if anyone claims that grounding works, I think they have been more lucky than wise. Bob Bob Boyer s/v Rainy Days C&C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230) Annapolis, MD (presently in Baltimore) blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com<http://dainyrays.blogspot.com> email: dainyr...@icloud.com<mailto:dainyr...@icloud.com> On Jul 25, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Bernard Bauman via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: I’ve heard in the past of this being done, but using chain. Does anyone know of instances where this actually works and prevents lightening bolt from entering the cabin? Bernie Ex C&C 25 (hull # 342) Shopping for a new boat Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 10:39 AM To: mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Della Barba, Joe<mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov> Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki I run 4 gauge wire from the bottom of my mast to the nearest keel bolt. This is vastly better than nothing. If you really want to get into it, you would need to tie in all the rigging and provide exit terminals at the water line. This website will give you some ideas: http://marinelightning.com/Siedarc.htm . If you want to be cheap, do what we did dating back to the 1960s at least - buy jumper cables and pull them apart to make 2 separate cables. Clamp one on each upper shroud and hang the other end in the water. Joe Coquina C&C 35 MK I Worst lightning hit so far blew the VHF antenna off and ruined the battery switch with no other damage -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Doyle via CnC-List Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 10:00 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: Ryan Doyle Subject: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki Hey guys, Wondering if anyone can describe to me how they've ground their mast. I have a 1976 30mki and we got caught out in a very fast-moving t-storm this weekend and I realized I should have done this when I bought the boat last fall. My mast step is not original. It is a big, fat piece of mahogany - which I envision blasting apart if the mast took a direct strike. The only idea I've had is using a steel ring clamp to attach a terminal on a very large gauge wire (maybe 2 gauge?) to the bottom of the mast, then run this wire a foot or two aft and down into the bilge to a keel bolt where I would have a second ring clamp hold the wire's terminal to a keel bolt. I worry about how this would look and I also worry whether it would even be effective. Anyone have a better solution? Thanks in advance. Hope you're all having a wonderful sailing summer. Ryan Sent from my iPhone Sent from my iPhone ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the gen
Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki
On my 1980 version, I assume the 'grounding' system is original. There is a cast metal box which the mast sits in and which in turn sits on the big oak block. That box has a battery cable bolted to it which is attached to a keel bolt. Hope it works. Gary #593 -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Doyle via CnC-List Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 10:00 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Ryan Doyle Subject: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki Hey guys, Wondering if anyone can describe to me how they've ground their mast. I have a 1976 30mki and we got caught out in a very fast-moving t-storm this weekend and I realized I should have done this when I bought the boat last fall. My mast step is not original. It is a big, fat piece of mahogany - which I envision blasting apart if the mast took a direct strike. The only idea I've had is using a steel ring clamp to attach a terminal on a very large gauge wire (maybe 2 gauge?) to the bottom of the mast, then run this wire a foot or two aft and down into the bilge to a keel bolt where I would have a second ring clamp hold the wire's terminal to a keel bolt. I worry about how this would look and I also worry whether it would even be effective. Anyone have a better solution? Thanks in advance. Hope you're all having a wonderful sailing summer. Ryan Sent from my iPhone Sent from my iPhone ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki
Joe: That's only one data point and I think there are so many variables involved with lightning strikes that you really can't draw much of a conclusion. There are all different degrees of lightning strikes--the one you were involved with may have been among the worst. I have two data points that may have been milder hits since my boat didn't sink. Bob Bob Boyer S/V Rainy Days (1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230) Blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com Email: dainyr...@icloud.com Annapolis, MD (presently in Baltimore) > On Jul 25, 2016, at 11:51 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List > wrote: > > No – they were wise. I have worked on a boat with no ground system that was > hit. Step one was to get salvage divers to inflate airbags inside the boat > and get it back up to the surface! > Joe > Coquina > > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert > Boyer via CnC-List > Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 11:40 > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: Robert Boyer > Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki > > Lightning is actually attracted to a grounded object. My boat has been hit > by lightning twice--mast was grounded to keel bolt. Most of my electronics > were fried each time. So, if anyone claims that grounding works, I think > they have been more lucky than wise. > > Bob > > Bob Boyer > s/v Rainy Days > C&C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230) > Annapolis, MD (presently in Baltimore) > blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com > email: dainyr...@icloud.com > > On Jul 25, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Bernard Bauman via CnC-List > wrote: > > I’ve heard in the past of this being done, but using chain. Does anyone know > of instances where this actually works and prevents lightening bolt from > entering the cabin? > > Bernie > Ex C&C 25 (hull # 342) > Shopping for a new boat > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List > Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 10:39 AM > To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com' > Cc: Della Barba, Joe > Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki > > I run 4 gauge wire from the bottom of my mast to the nearest keel bolt. This > is vastly better than nothing. > If you really want to get into it, you would need to tie in all the rigging > and provide exit terminals at the water line. This website will give you some > ideas: http://marinelightning.com/Siedarc.htm . If you want to be cheap, do > what we did dating back to the 1960s at least - buy jumper cables and pull > them apart to make 2 separate cables. Clamp one on each upper shroud and hang > the other end in the water. > > Joe > Coquina > C&C 35 MK I > Worst lightning hit so far blew the VHF antenna off and ruined the battery > switch with no other damage > > -Original Message- > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Doyle > via CnC-List > Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 10:00 > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: Ryan Doyle > Subject: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki > > Hey guys, > > Wondering if anyone can describe to me how they've ground their mast. I have > a 1976 30mki and we got caught out in a very fast-moving t-storm this weekend > and I realized I should have done this when I bought the boat last fall. My > mast step is not original. It is a big, fat piece of mahogany - which I > envision blasting apart if the mast took a direct strike. > > The only idea I've had is using a steel ring clamp to attach a terminal on a > very large gauge wire (maybe 2 gauge?) to the bottom of the mast, then run > this wire a foot or two aft and down into the bilge to a keel bolt where I > would have a second ring clamp hold the wire's terminal to a keel bolt. I > worry about how this would look and I also worry whether it would even be > effective. > > Anyone have a better solution? > > Thanks in advance. Hope you're all having a wonderful sailing summer. > > Ryan > > Sent from my iPhone > > > Sent from my iPhone > ___ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like > what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions > are greatly appreciated! > > ___ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like > what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions > are greatly appreciated! > > ___ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like > what we do, pleas
Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki
This is not exactly the case. Keep in mind that a lighting generates a current in thousands of A. That high current generates magnetic field around it. In turn this magnetic field generates current in any conductor in the neighbourhood (this includes, but is not limited to, any electronic equipment (one assumes that there are some wires in it) and any metal object (e.g. keys in your pocket or the pushpit of the boat)). Grounding (or not) would not prevent the electronics from getting fried; bonding might (provided that it is correctly done and with sufficient wiring). It seems that this is a good practice to ground the mast to the keel bolt, but in no way it provides all the protection you would want to have. Marek 1994 C270 “Legato” Ottawa, ON From: Robert Boyer via CnC-List Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 11:41 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Robert Boyer Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki Lightning is actually attracted to a grounded object. My boat has been hit by lightning twice--mast was grounded to keel bolt. Most of my electronics were fried each time. So, if anyone claims that grounding works, I think they have been more lucky than wise. Bob Bob Boyer s/v Rainy Days C&C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230) Annapolis, MD (presently in Baltimore) blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com email: dainyr...@icloud.com On Jul 25, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Bernard Bauman via CnC-List wrote: I’ve heard in the past of this being done, but using chain. Does anyone know of instances where this actually works and prevents lightening bolt from entering the cabin? Bernie Ex C&C 25 (hull # 342) Shopping for a new boat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 10:39 AM To: mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Della Barba, Joe Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki I run 4 gauge wire from the bottom of my mast to the nearest keel bolt. This is vastly better than nothing. If you really want to get into it, you would need to tie in all the rigging and provide exit terminals at the water line. This website will give you some ideas: http://marinelightning.com/Siedarc.htm . If you want to be cheap, do what we did dating back to the 1960s at least - buy jumper cables and pull them apart to make 2 separate cables. Clamp one on each upper shroud and hang the other end in the water. Joe Coquina C&C 35 MK I Worst lightning hit so far blew the VHF antenna off and ruined the battery switch with no other damage -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Doyle via CnC-List Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 10:00 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Ryan Doyle Subject: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki Hey guys, Wondering if anyone can describe to me how they've ground their mast. I have a 1976 30mki and we got caught out in a very fast-moving t-storm this weekend and I realized I should have done this when I bought the boat last fall. My mast step is not original. It is a big, fat piece of mahogany - which I envision blasting apart if the mast took a direct strike. The only idea I've had is using a steel ring clamp to attach a terminal on a very large gauge wire (maybe 2 gauge?) to the bottom of the mast, then run this wire a foot or two aft and down into the bilge to a keel bolt where I would have a second ring clamp hold the wire's terminal to a keel bolt. I worry about how this would look and I also worry whether it would even be effective. Anyone have a better solution? Thanks in advance. Hope you're all having a wonderful sailing summer. Ryan Sent from my iPhone Sent from my iPhone ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki
In no way I would want to discourage you from grounding your mast. However, please consider the two articles and draw your own conclusions. http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/lightning.htm http://lightningsafety.com/nlsi_pls/cone-of-protection-myth.html Marek From: Ryan Doyle via CnC-List Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 10:01 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Ryan Doyle Subject: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki Hey guys, Wondering if anyone can describe to me how they've ground their mast. I have a 1976 30mki and we got caught out in a very fast-moving t-storm this weekend and I realized I should have done this when I bought the boat last fall. My mast step is not original. It is a big, fat piece of mahogany - which I envision blasting apart if the mast took a direct strike. The only idea I've had is using a steel ring clamp to attach a terminal on a very large gauge wire (maybe 2 gauge?) to the bottom of the mast, then run this wire a foot or two aft and down into the bilge to a keel bolt where I would have a second ring clamp hold the wire's terminal to a keel bolt. I worry about how this would look and I also worry whether it would even be effective. Anyone have a better solution? Thanks in advance. Hope you're all having a wonderful sailing summer. Ryan Sent from my iPhone Sent from my iPhone ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki
No – they were wise. I have worked on a boat with no ground system that was hit. Step one was to get salvage divers to inflate airbags inside the boat and get it back up to the surface! Joe Coquina From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert Boyer via CnC-List Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 11:40 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Robert Boyer Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki Lightning is actually attracted to a grounded object. My boat has been hit by lightning twice--mast was grounded to keel bolt. Most of my electronics were fried each time. So, if anyone claims that grounding works, I think they have been more lucky than wise. Bob Bob Boyer s/v Rainy Days C&C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230) Annapolis, MD (presently in Baltimore) blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com<http://dainyrays.blogspot.com> email: dainyr...@icloud.com<mailto:dainyr...@icloud.com> On Jul 25, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Bernard Bauman via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: I’ve heard in the past of this being done, but using chain. Does anyone know of instances where this actually works and prevents lightening bolt from entering the cabin? Bernie Ex C&C 25 (hull # 342) Shopping for a new boat Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 10:39 AM To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com'<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: Della Barba, Joe<mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov> Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki I run 4 gauge wire from the bottom of my mast to the nearest keel bolt. This is vastly better than nothing. If you really want to get into it, you would need to tie in all the rigging and provide exit terminals at the water line. This website will give you some ideas: http://marinelightning.com/Siedarc.htm . If you want to be cheap, do what we did dating back to the 1960s at least - buy jumper cables and pull them apart to make 2 separate cables. Clamp one on each upper shroud and hang the other end in the water. Joe Coquina C&C 35 MK I Worst lightning hit so far blew the VHF antenna off and ruined the battery switch with no other damage -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Doyle via CnC-List Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 10:00 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: Ryan Doyle Subject: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki Hey guys, Wondering if anyone can describe to me how they've ground their mast. I have a 1976 30mki and we got caught out in a very fast-moving t-storm this weekend and I realized I should have done this when I bought the boat last fall. My mast step is not original. It is a big, fat piece of mahogany - which I envision blasting apart if the mast took a direct strike. The only idea I've had is using a steel ring clamp to attach a terminal on a very large gauge wire (maybe 2 gauge?) to the bottom of the mast, then run this wire a foot or two aft and down into the bilge to a keel bolt where I would have a second ring clamp hold the wire's terminal to a keel bolt. I worry about how this would look and I also worry whether it would even be effective. Anyone have a better solution? Thanks in advance. Hope you're all having a wonderful sailing summer. Ryan Sent from my iPhone Sent from my iPhone ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki
Lightning is actually attracted to a grounded object. My boat has been hit by lightning twice--mast was grounded to keel bolt. Most of my electronics were fried each time. So, if anyone claims that grounding works, I think they have been more lucky than wise. Bob Bob Boyer s/v Rainy Days C&C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230) Annapolis, MD (presently in Baltimore) blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com email: dainyr...@icloud.com > On Jul 25, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Bernard Bauman via CnC-List > wrote: > > I’ve heard in the past of this being done, but using chain. Does anyone know > of instances where this actually works and prevents lightening bolt from > entering the cabin? > > Bernie > Ex C&C 25 (hull # 342) > Shopping for a new boat > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List > Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 10:39 AM > To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com' > Cc: Della Barba, Joe > Subject: Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki > > I run 4 gauge wire from the bottom of my mast to the nearest keel bolt. This > is vastly better than nothing. > If you really want to get into it, you would need to tie in all the rigging > and provide exit terminals at the water line. This website will give you some > ideas: http://marinelightning.com/Siedarc.htm . If you want to be cheap, do > what we did dating back to the 1960s at least - buy jumper cables and pull > them apart to make 2 separate cables. Clamp one on each upper shroud and hang > the other end in the water. > > Joe > Coquina > C&C 35 MK I > Worst lightning hit so far blew the VHF antenna off and ruined the battery > switch with no other damage > > -Original Message- > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Doyle > via CnC-List > Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 10:00 > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: Ryan Doyle > Subject: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki > > Hey guys, > > Wondering if anyone can describe to me how they've ground their mast. I have > a 1976 30mki and we got caught out in a very fast-moving t-storm this weekend > and I realized I should have done this when I bought the boat last fall. My > mast step is not original. It is a big, fat piece of mahogany - which I > envision blasting apart if the mast took a direct strike. > > The only idea I've had is using a steel ring clamp to attach a terminal on a > very large gauge wire (maybe 2 gauge?) to the bottom of the mast, then run > this wire a foot or two aft and down into the bilge to a keel bolt where I > would have a second ring clamp hold the wire's terminal to a keel bolt. I > worry about how this would look and I also worry whether it would even be > effective. > > Anyone have a better solution? > > Thanks in advance. Hope you're all having a wonderful sailing summer. > > Ryan > > Sent from my iPhone > > > Sent from my iPhone > ___ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like > what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions > are greatly appreciated! > > ___ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like > what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions > are greatly appreciated! > > ___ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like > what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions > are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki
I’ve heard in the past of this being done, but using chain. Does anyone know of instances where this actually works and prevents lightening bolt from entering the cabin? Bernie Ex C&C 25 (hull # 342) Shopping for a new boat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki
I run 4 gauge wire from the bottom of my mast to the nearest keel bolt. This is vastly better than nothing. If you really want to get into it, you would need to tie in all the rigging and provide exit terminals at the water line. This website will give you some ideas: http://marinelightning.com/Siedarc.htm . If you want to be cheap, do what we did dating back to the 1960s at least - buy jumper cables and pull them apart to make 2 separate cables. Clamp one on each upper shroud and hang the other end in the water. Joe Coquina C&C 35 MK I Worst lightning hit so far blew the VHF antenna off and ruined the battery switch with no other damage -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Doyle via CnC-List Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 10:00 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Ryan Doyle Subject: Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki Hey guys, Wondering if anyone can describe to me how they've ground their mast. I have a 1976 30mki and we got caught out in a very fast-moving t-storm this weekend and I realized I should have done this when I bought the boat last fall. My mast step is not original. It is a big, fat piece of mahogany - which I envision blasting apart if the mast took a direct strike. The only idea I've had is using a steel ring clamp to attach a terminal on a very large gauge wire (maybe 2 gauge?) to the bottom of the mast, then run this wire a foot or two aft and down into the bilge to a keel bolt where I would have a second ring clamp hold the wire's terminal to a keel bolt. I worry about how this would look and I also worry whether it would even be effective. Anyone have a better solution? Thanks in advance. Hope you're all having a wonderful sailing summer. Ryan Sent from my iPhone Sent from my iPhone ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List Grounding a mast - 30mki
Hey guys, Wondering if anyone can describe to me how they've ground their mast. I have a 1976 30mki and we got caught out in a very fast-moving t-storm this weekend and I realized I should have done this when I bought the boat last fall. My mast step is not original. It is a big, fat piece of mahogany - which I envision blasting apart if the mast took a direct strike. The only idea I've had is using a steel ring clamp to attach a terminal on a very large gauge wire (maybe 2 gauge?) to the bottom of the mast, then run this wire a foot or two aft and down into the bilge to a keel bolt where I would have a second ring clamp hold the wire's terminal to a keel bolt. I worry about how this would look and I also worry whether it would even be effective. Anyone have a better solution? Thanks in advance. Hope you're all having a wonderful sailing summer. Ryan Sent from my iPhone Sent from my iPhone ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List GROUNDING
Wow, great story! From my Android phone Original message From: Alex Giannelia via CnC-List Date: 04/07/2015 9:02 PM (GMT-05:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: "Dennis C." Subject: Stus-List GROUNDING Hi Dennis, Sorry to hear about your grounding, but better than all of us having to set your boat out into Lake Pontchartaine and firing blazing arrow at her…… Get well soon. I have a bit of a similar story if the listers want to read on…it has a sailing twist… A number of years ago, I was diagnosed with a heart murmur due to a bicuspid valve that caused turbulence in my aorta stressing the walls. My cardiologist said they were going to watch it on a regular basis and when it reached 55mm, they were going to wrap it in sailcloth and I could carry on. About 15 years later, I was in emergency due to a fractured ankle when they discovered once again that I had a heart murmur and atrial fibrillation, so off to the cardiologist I went who then told me and my wife that it was now time because it had distended to 52mm and the goalposts had been set back to 50. My response, before thinking was, “Oh is that operation where you wrap some sailcloth around my aorta”. “Not quite” said he, “ we cut you open, remove a 3” section of your aorta, the aortic valve then replace the aorta with a Dacron sleeve and the valve with either a mechanical or tissue valve.” Of course my wife wasn’t too thrilled to hear all this and neither was I because I figured my business would have to go on hold for 3 months while I recovered….then as well, I was just reaching the end game of my restoration of the 1974 C&C 35 so not much if any sailing….but what had to get done, had to get done, so we sawed it off at a July operation. Managed to launch and then due to 2 postponements, managed to sail for the first time since 2006 and then came the time for the operation: August 12, 2014. At the pre-op interview, we met the surgeon for the first time and upon hearing his name, I asked if he had any connection to Nova Scotia, which he had, having ancestors living in Lunenburg since 1753. At that point I was most relieved and turned to my wife and said “This guys ancestors repaired sails in clipper ships while underway, so it’s in his DNA to sew well under pressure”. I forgot what his reaction was. The night before my 6:00 AM appointment, a friend and I then removed both the bow and aft pulpits so they could get polished during my convalescence, an operation that lasted till 2:00 AM. At 5:25, our daughter woke us up thinking we had already left, as my ingest was scheduled for 6:00. A bit of a rush, but no worries, as we lived close by, so at exactly 6:00 sharp we showed up for registration. At 6:30 the good surgeon arrived, at 7:30 or so, I succumbed to anesthesia and by 14:30 was already waking up. A bit more than an hour later, the good surgeon showed up to ask how I was and I told him of my escapade the night before almost catching pneumonia in the downpour that took place on deck. Not blinking an eye, he calmly asked what kind of boat I was restoring whereupon I told him a 1974 C&C 35 at which he equally calmly said he owned a 1969 Redwing 30. Wow, quelle coincidence! He then asked me where I kept the boat, and I said ABYC whereupon he asked if that was the club that required members input. He was still keeping his boat in Nova Scotia and was contemplating bringing it to Toronto and was interested in checking out the various clubs. I then pointed to my chest and said “well when this is healed, come on down and we’ll go sailing and you can check out the club” not thinking that he had just been fixing up stuff there not 3 hours previously. 8 weeks later, he and 2 other friends of mine were out on a stunningly breezy October morn to sail around Ashbridges Bay. He introduced himself to the other club members as “Hi, I’m Alex’s mechanic. He had some work done and he wants me along for the test drive….” So Dennis, there is hope….good luck with the recovery. Alex Giannelia CC 35-II 1974 launched, to be renamed TORONTO, Ontario ag@@airsensing.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List GROUNDING
Hi Dennis, Sorry to hear about your grounding, but better than all of us having to set your boat out into Lake Pontchartaine and firing blazing arrow at her.. Get well soon. I have a bit of a similar story if the listers want to read on...it has a sailing twist... A number of years ago, I was diagnosed with a heart murmur due to a bicuspid valve that caused turbulence in my aorta stressing the walls. My cardiologist said they were going to watch it on a regular basis and when it reached 55mm, they were going to wrap it in sailcloth and I could carry on. About 15 years later, I was in emergency due to a fractured ankle when they discovered once again that I had a heart murmur and atrial fibrillation, so off to the cardiologist I went who then told me and my wife that it was now time because it had distended to 52mm and the goalposts had been set back to 50. My response, before thinking was, "Oh is that operation where you wrap some sailcloth around my aorta". "Not quite" said he, " we cut you open, remove a 3" section of your aorta, the aortic valve then replace the aorta with a Dacron sleeve and the valve with either a mechanical or tissue valve." Of course my wife wasn't too thrilled to hear all this and neither was I because I figured my business would have to go on hold for 3 months while I recoveredthen as well, I was just reaching the end game of my restoration of the 1974 C&C 35 so not much if any sailingbut what had to get done, had to get done, so we sawed it off at a July operation. Managed to launch and then due to 2 postponements, managed to sail for the first time since 2006 and then came the time for the operation: August 12, 2014. At the pre-op interview, we met the surgeon for the first time and upon hearing his name, I asked if he had any connection to Nova Scotia, which he had, having ancestors living in Lunenburg since 1753. At that point I was most relieved and turned to my wife and said "This guys ancestors repaired sails in clipper ships while underway, so it's in his DNA to sew well under pressure". I forgot what his reaction was. The night before my 6:00 AM appointment, a friend and I then removed both the bow and aft pulpits so they could get polished during my convalescence, an operation that lasted till 2:00 AM. At 5:25, our daughter woke us up thinking we had already left, as my ingest was scheduled for 6:00. A bit of a rush, but no worries, as we lived close by, so at exactly 6:00 sharp we showed up for registration. At 6:30 the good surgeon arrived, at 7:30 or so, I succumbed to anesthesia and by 14:30 was already waking up. A bit more than an hour later, the good surgeon showed up to ask how I was and I told him of my escapade the night before almost catching pneumonia in the downpour that took place on deck. Not blinking an eye, he calmly asked what kind of boat I was restoring whereupon I told him a 1974 C&C 35 at which he equally calmly said he owned a 1969 Redwing 30. Wow, quelle coincidence! He then asked me where I kept the boat, and I said ABYC whereupon he asked if that was the club that required members input. He was still keeping his boat in Nova Scotia and was contemplating bringing it to Toronto and was interested in checking out the various clubs. I then pointed to my chest and said "well when this is healed, come on down and we'll go sailing and you can check out the club" not thinking that he had just been fixing up stuff there not 3 hours previously. 8 weeks later, he and 2 other friends of mine were out on a stunningly breezy October morn to sail around Ashbridges Bay. He introduced himself to the other club members as "Hi, I'm Alex's mechanic. He had some work done and he wants me along for the test drive" So Dennis, there is hopegood luck with the recovery. Alex Giannelia CC 35-II 1974 launched, to be renamed TORONTO, Ontario ag@@airsensing.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
