Re: Stus-List mainsheet set-up

[Chuck Borge via CnC-List]

Thanks for the input Rick.
Today I added a double block at the bottom of the 2:1 and a single block at
the top on a second boom bale.  I'm not sure if that effectively makes it
4:1, 3:1 or not, but the  main was much easier to trim as we sailed today
in about 10-12 kts of breeze.  As suggested by both you and Josh, I added a
snap shackle at the traveler so I can move the boom to the rail when at the
mooring with guests...
I totally spaced out taking some pics today as I as testing the new
arrangement.  Will try to get some for more input.

Best,
Chuck


*Chuck Borge*
*508-642-3557*

On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 10:49 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Chuck;
>
>
>
> The arrangement on my 38 is essentially the same as the arrangement on
> Josh’s boat, except that I have only a 3:1 purchase on the end of the sheet
> at the traveler instead of Josh’s 12:1 cascade system. The other end of the
> sheet runs forward under the boom, down to the deck, and then back to a
> clutch and a Barient 27 self-tailing winch on the cabin top.
>
>
>
> 3:1 is adequate for almost all conditions  but there is about 20’ or so of
> sheet to deal with. That goes into a sheet bag I’ve installed on the side
> of the cockpit well, and the mainsheet trimmer keeps it out from under foot
> when I have crew. If I’m single handing, the sheet is laid on the cockpit
> seats so I can reach it from behind the wheel.
>
>
>
> Remember: Reef early, reef often. The boat is faster when it is not
> overcanvassed.
>
>
>
> The Barient 27 is equivalent to a Harken 46 or Lewmar 48, so there is
> plenty of mechanical advantage available on those rare occasions when
> someone need to grunt the boom in against heavy winds.
>
>
>
> I also have a snap shackle connecting the block on the mainsheet to the
> traveler. I generally keep the boom clipped to the toe rail on the side
> away from the dock in order to keep the companionway unobstructed, and it
> has to be out of the cockpit when I put up the cockpit enclosure when
> cruising.
>
>
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
> Borge via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Saturday, June 9, 2018 3:00 PM
> *To:* CnClist 
> *Cc:* Chuck Borge 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List mainsheet set-up
>
>
>
> Thanks Josh, that was really helpful.
>
> I'm going to play around with some (or all) of your ideas, for sure!
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
>
> *Chuck Borge*
>
> *508-642-3557*
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 2:25 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Chuck, I took a video for ya.
>
>
>
> https://youtu.be/VNUGnNAGsDo
>
>
>
> Josh Muckley
>
> S/V Sea Hawk
>
> 1989 C 37+
>
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List mainsheet set-up

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Chuck;

 

The arrangement on my 38 is essentially the same as the arrangement on Josh’s 
boat, except that I have only a 3:1 purchase on the end of the sheet at the 
traveler instead of Josh’s 12:1 cascade system. The other end of the sheet runs 
forward under the boom, down to the deck, and then back to a clutch and a 
Barient 27 self-tailing winch on the cabin top. 

 

3:1 is adequate for almost all conditions  but there is about 20’ or so of 
sheet to deal with. That goes into a sheet bag I’ve installed on the side of 
the cockpit well, and the mainsheet trimmer keeps it out from under foot when I 
have crew. If I’m single handing, the sheet is laid on the cockpit seats so I 
can reach it from behind the wheel. 

 

Remember: Reef early, reef often. The boat is faster when it is not 
overcanvassed.

 

The Barient 27 is equivalent to a Harken 46 or Lewmar 48, so there is plenty of 
mechanical advantage available on those rare occasions when someone need to 
grunt the boom in against heavy winds.

 

I also have a snap shackle connecting the block on the mainsheet to the 
traveler. I generally keep the boom clipped to the toe rail on the side away 
from the dock in order to keep the companionway unobstructed, and it has to be 
out of the cockpit when I put up the cockpit enclosure when cruising.

 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Borge 
via CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 3:00 PM
To: CnClist 
Cc: Chuck Borge 
Subject: Re: Stus-List mainsheet set-up

 

Thanks Josh, that was really helpful.

I'm going to play around with some (or all) of your ideas, for sure!

 

Cheers,

Chuck




 

Chuck Borge

508-642-3557

 

On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 2:25 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Chuck, I took a video for ya.

 

https://youtu.be/VNUGnNAGsDo

 

Josh Muckley 

S/V Sea Hawk 

1989 C 37+

Solomons, MD 

 

 

 

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List mainsheet set-up

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Dave,

The 3:1 portion IIRC is 80ish feet.  The part that runs along the boom and
deck is always there so as a purchase system it doesn't add to the birds
nest.  The 50 extra feet ensure that I can let the boom out nearly
perpendicular to the mast.  My boom attachment is roughly at 10' so some
trigonometry tells me the traveler to boom distance on the same plane is
14'.  Add the boom height and multiply by 3 (for the 3:1)

As for the offset becket fiddle block.  It is actual supposed to be a
standard fiddle with cam cleat.  I removed the cam cleat and installed a
bolt and brass bushing in it's place.  I'm told that Garhauer will make all
types of custom stuff but this was an easy off the shelf option.  No, none
of the blocks are OEM or even from the PO.  Everything is from Garhauer.  I
was on a kick for a little while.  They make good stuff but I'm not dead
set on it.  The availability of comparably priced stuff at the West Marine
around the corner is hard to beat.

Here a link to the "offset becket fiddle block"
https://www.garhauerstore.com/blocks/fiddle-blocks-71/fiddle-blocks-with-cam-cleat-and-shackle/fiddle-block-with-cam-cleat-and-shackle-30-05-uag.html

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD





On Fri, Jun 8, 2018, 3:51 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Josh- How long does the mainsheet need to be for this setup with
> coarse, fine and winch?  Are all those stock blocks?  I am not sure what
> you would call the double fiddle with the offset becket.  Dave
>
> On Jun 8, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> My boat came setup from the PO with a cabin top mainsheet control to a
> cabin top winch.  It was painfully under powered even with the winch.  My
> traveler is located in the cockpit on the aft edge of the forward bench.  I
> had previously, on other boats, only ever used a 4:1 mainsheet which was
> trimmed at the traveler.  A convenient setup for tacking with a limited
> crew or singlehanded.
>
> The PO had tried a 6:1 or 8:1 trimmed at the traveler but justifiably
> complained that there was too much extra line to be tripped on and tangled
> in the cockpit or thrown below in the cabin.
>
> I had seen the stacked fiddle block setup that makes 3:1/6:1 or 4:1/8:1.
> While innovative, I decided that the bulk of the line would still be under
> foot in the cockpit 95% of the time.
>
> I ended up designing a cascading system which gives me a 12:1 "tweaker"
> which is readily available in the cockpit and a 3:1 which runs to the cabin
> top winch for the deep down wind runs.  TBH the tweaker and the traveler
> together usually give enough range for all but the deepest down wind runs.
> Even though the 3:1 is terminated at a winch it is extremely rare that we
> need to use it since the traveler and tweaker are available to make up for
> that which the 3:1 cannot.
>
> Based in your picture it appears that my setup may be useful on your
> boat.  Basically you would eliminate either the port or starboard control
> which you currently have.  Install a 4:1 or 6:1 fiddle block between boom
> and traveler, and have the free end now terminate with a cam cleat at the
> traveler side.  With no other purchase changes it looks like a 4:1 could be
> arranged to produce 5:1 compounded with the existing 2:1 and you would have
> 10:1.  With the compromise of more line on the deck you could push it to
> 12:1 or 14:1 with the application of a 6:1 instead.  Here is a link to some
> pictures of my setup.  If you need more description or better pictures just
> let me know.
>
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yY3Qtbi1VSllwM3M
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018, 10:07 AM Chuck Borge via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Josh,
>> Thanks for jumping in.
>> [image: image1.gif]
>> For reference, it looks like this diagram.
>> The traveler is on the bridge deck. The problem is the purchase. I might
>> add a triple at the top and move the double to the bottom. That will give
>> me 3:1 instead. But it doesn’t solve my wanting to trim the jib on the aft
>> winches.
>> Before I go buy a more traditional cascading set up like the Ronstan
>> RP72900 4:1/8:1, I want to think it out.
>>
>> Best,
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 7, 2018, at 10:14 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> Any chance you have some pictures?  I tried google and sailboatdata but
>> can't tell if your boat has a cabin top traveler or a cockpit traveler?
>>
>> Just for clarity, are you having trouble trimming the traveler or the
>> mainsheet?
>>
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018, 9:54 PM Chuck Borge via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Listers,
>>>
>>> Anyone with a C 41 have suggestions on a mainsheet set-up?
>>> My new-to-me boat has a "German" mainsheet 

Re: Stus-List mainsheet set-up

[Chuck Borge via CnC-List]

Thanks Josh, that was really helpful.
I'm going to play around with some (or all) of your ideas, for sure!

Cheers,
Chuck


*Chuck Borge*
*508-642-3557*

On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 2:25 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Chuck, I took a video for ya.
>
> https://youtu.be/VNUGnNAGsDo
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018, 12:34 PM Chuck Borge via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Josh,
>> That’s a cool setup.
>> I may steal elements of that and as Mike noted, I can always trim main on
>> the primaries.
>> Not having a rats nest on the cockpit floor is a benefit. And mark
>> roundings are easier with the 2:1, at least until we get to the last 20% or
>> so.
>> Next project will be making the traveler easier to adjust from the helm
>> as well.
>> It may be as simple as flopping the fiddle blocks.
>> I’ll take some pix this weekend for input.
>> Thanks,
>> Chuck
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 8, 2018, at 10:41 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>> I have seen your setup on a C 115.  The 115 typically has the main
>> sheet on either side go directly from traveler to aft winches but on the
>> 115 I mentioned it went along boom to mast and then down and back.
>>
>>
>>
>> With your current setup could you not use the primaries for the main
>> sheet when you wish to use the secondaries (aft winches) for your jib?
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Persistence
>>
>> Halifax, NS
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
>> ] *On Behalf Of *Chuck Borge via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 08, 2018 11:07 AM
>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Cc:* Chuck Borge
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List mainsheet set-up
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh,
>>
>> Thanks for jumping in.
>>
>> 
>> For reference, it looks like this diagram.
>>
>> The traveler is on the bridge deck. The problem is the purchase. I might
>> add a triple at the top and move the double to the bottom. That will give
>> me 3:1 instead. But it doesn’t solve my wanting to trim the jib on the aft
>> winches.
>>
>> Before I go buy a more traditional cascading set up like the Ronstan
>> RP72900 4:1/8:1, I want to think it out.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Jun 7, 2018, at 10:14 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Chuck,
>>
>>
>>
>> Any chance you have some pictures?  I tried google and sailboatdata but
>> can't tell if your boat has a cabin top traveler or a cockpit traveler?
>>
>>
>>
>> Just for clarity, are you having trouble trimming the traveler or the
>> mainsheet?
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Muckley
>>
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>>
>> 1989 C 37+
>>
>> Solomons, MD
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018, 9:54 PM Chuck Borge via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Listers,
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyone with a C 41 have suggestions on a mainsheet set-up?
>>
>> My new-to-me boat has a "German" mainsheet set-up that runs to the runner
>> winches.  It's supposed to be the hot set-up but I'm not impressed.
>>
>> Since I'm using a 97% r/f jib, I find tacking that alone using the runner
>> winches to be pretty easy, but what to do with the main?   Also the 2:1
>> nature of the German set-up is not really that easy to trim, even with the
>> winches.
>>
>> I'm thinking I'd like a 4:1/8:1 more traditional set-up or a reasonable
>> suggestion(?).
>>
>> Thanks in advance for the help.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Chuck Borge*
>>
>> *C 41 Tenacious*
>>
>> *(formerly C 34 Elusive)*
>>
>> *Somerset, MA*
>>
>> *508-642-3557*
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each

Re: Stus-List mainsheet set-up

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Chuck, I took a video for ya.

https://youtu.be/VNUGnNAGsDo

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Fri, Jun 8, 2018, 12:34 PM Chuck Borge via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Josh,
> That’s a cool setup.
> I may steal elements of that and as Mike noted, I can always trim main on
> the primaries.
> Not having a rats nest on the cockpit floor is a benefit. And mark
> roundings are easier with the 2:1, at least until we get to the last 20% or
> so.
> Next project will be making the traveler easier to adjust from the helm as
> well.
> It may be as simple as flopping the fiddle blocks.
> I’ll take some pix this weekend for input.
> Thanks,
> Chuck
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 8, 2018, at 10:41 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Chuck
>
>
>
> I have seen your setup on a C 115.  The 115 typically has the main sheet
> on either side go directly from traveler to aft winches but on the 115 I
> mentioned it went along boom to mast and then down and back.
>
>
>
> With your current setup could you not use the primaries for the main sheet
> when you wish to use the secondaries (aft winches) for your jib?
>
>
>
> Mike
>
> Persistence
>
> Halifax, NS
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Chuck Borge via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, June 08, 2018 11:07 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Chuck Borge
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List mainsheet set-up
>
>
>
> Josh,
>
> Thanks for jumping in.
>
> 
> For reference, it looks like this diagram.
>
> The traveler is on the bridge deck. The problem is the purchase. I might
> add a triple at the top and move the double to the bottom. That will give
> me 3:1 instead. But it doesn’t solve my wanting to trim the jib on the aft
> winches.
>
> Before I go buy a more traditional cascading set up like the Ronstan
> RP72900 4:1/8:1, I want to think it out.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Jun 7, 2018, at 10:14 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Chuck,
>
>
>
> Any chance you have some pictures?  I tried google and sailboatdata but
> can't tell if your boat has a cabin top traveler or a cockpit traveler?
>
>
>
> Just for clarity, are you having trouble trimming the traveler or the
> mainsheet?
>
>
>
> Josh Muckley
>
> S/V Sea Hawk
>
> 1989 C 37+
>
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018, 9:54 PM Chuck Borge via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Listers,
>
>
>
> Anyone with a C 41 have suggestions on a mainsheet set-up?
>
> My new-to-me boat has a "German" mainsheet set-up that runs to the runner
> winches.  It's supposed to be the hot set-up but I'm not impressed.
>
> Since I'm using a 97% r/f jib, I find tacking that alone using the runner
> winches to be pretty easy, but what to do with the main?   Also the 2:1
> nature of the German set-up is not really that easy to trim, even with the
> winches.
>
> I'm thinking I'd like a 4:1/8:1 more traditional set-up or a reasonable
> suggestion(?).
>
> Thanks in advance for the help.
>
>
>
> *Chuck Borge*
>
> *C 41 Tenacious*
>
> *(formerly C 34 Elusive)*
>
> *Somerset, MA*
>
> *508-642-3557*
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List mainsheet set-up

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

Hi Josh- How long does the mainsheet need to be for this setup with coarse, 
fine and winch?  Are all those stock blocks?  I am not sure what you would call 
the double fiddle with the offset becket.  Dave

> On Jun 8, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> My boat came setup from the PO with a cabin top mainsheet control to a cabin 
> top winch.  It was painfully under powered even with the winch.  My traveler 
> is located in the cockpit on the aft edge of the forward bench.  I had 
> previously, on other boats, only ever used a 4:1 mainsheet which was trimmed 
> at the traveler.  A convenient setup for tacking with a limited crew or 
> singlehanded.
> 
> The PO had tried a 6:1 or 8:1 trimmed at the traveler but justifiably 
> complained that there was too much extra line to be tripped on and tangled in 
> the cockpit or thrown below in the cabin.
> 
> I had seen the stacked fiddle block setup that makes 3:1/6:1 or 4:1/8:1.  
> While innovative, I decided that the bulk of the line would still be under 
> foot in the cockpit 95% of the time.
> 
> I ended up designing a cascading system which gives me a 12:1 "tweaker" which 
> is readily available in the cockpit and a 3:1 which runs to the cabin top 
> winch for the deep down wind runs.  TBH the tweaker and the traveler together 
> usually give enough range for all but the deepest down wind runs.  Even 
> though the 3:1 is terminated at a winch it is extremely rare that we need to 
> use it since the traveler and tweaker are available to make up for that which 
> the 3:1 cannot.
> 
> Based in your picture it appears that my setup may be useful on your boat.  
> Basically you would eliminate either the port or starboard control which you 
> currently have.  Install a 4:1 or 6:1 fiddle block between boom and traveler, 
> and have the free end now terminate with a cam cleat at the traveler side.  
> With no other purchase changes it looks like a 4:1 could be arranged to 
> produce 5:1 compounded with the existing 2:1 and you would have 10:1.  With 
> the compromise of more line on the deck you could push it to 12:1 or 14:1 
> with the application of a 6:1 instead.  Here is a link to some pictures of my 
> setup.  If you need more description or better pictures just let me know. 
> 
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yY3Qtbi1VSllwM3M 
> 
> 
> Josh Muckley 
> S/V Sea Hawk 
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018, 10:07 AM Chuck Borge via CnC-List  > wrote:
> Josh, 
> Thanks for jumping in. 
> 
> For reference, it looks like this diagram. 
> The traveler is on the bridge deck. The problem is the purchase. I might add 
> a triple at the top and move the double to the bottom. That will give me 3:1 
> instead. But it doesn’t solve my wanting to trim the jib on the aft winches. 
> Before I go buy a more traditional cascading set up like the Ronstan RP72900 
> 4:1/8:1, I want to think it out. 
> 
> Best,
> Chuck
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jun 7, 2018, at 10:14 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List  > wrote:
> 
>> Chuck,
>> 
>> Any chance you have some pictures?  I tried google and sailboatdata but 
>> can't tell if your boat has a cabin top traveler or a cockpit traveler?
>> 
>> Just for clarity, are you having trouble trimming the traveler or the 
>> mainsheet?
>> 
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk 
>> 1989 C 37+
>> Solomons, MD 
>> 
>> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018, 9:54 PM Chuck Borge via CnC-List > > wrote:
>> Hi Listers,
>> 
>> Anyone with a C 41 have suggestions on a mainsheet set-up?
>> My new-to-me boat has a "German" mainsheet set-up that runs to the runner 
>> winches.  It's supposed to be the hot set-up but I'm not impressed. 
>> Since I'm using a 97% r/f jib, I find tacking that alone using the runner 
>> winches to be pretty easy, but what to do with the main?   Also the 2:1 
>> nature of the German set-up is not really that easy to trim, even with the 
>> winches.
>> I'm thinking I'd like a 4:1/8:1 more traditional set-up or a reasonable 
>> suggestion(?).
>> Thanks in advance for the help.
>> 
>> Chuck Borge
>> C 41 Tenacious
>> (formerly C 34 Elusive)
>> Somerset, MA
>> 508-642-3557
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>> 
>> 
> 

Re: Stus-List mainsheet set-up

[Chuck Borge via CnC-List]

Josh,
That’s a cool setup. 
I may steal elements of that and as Mike noted, I can always trim main on the 
primaries. 
Not having a rats nest on the cockpit floor is a benefit. And mark roundings 
are easier with the 2:1, at least until we get to the last 20% or so. 
Next project will be making the traveler easier to adjust from the helm as 
well. 
It may be as simple as flopping the fiddle blocks. 
I’ll take some pix this weekend for input. 
Thanks,
Chuck

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 8, 2018, at 10:41 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Chuck
>  
> I have seen your setup on a C 115.  The 115 typically has the main sheet on 
> either side go directly from traveler to aft winches but on the 115 I 
> mentioned it went along boom to mast and then down and back. 
>  
> With your current setup could you not use the primaries for the main sheet 
> when you wish to use the secondaries (aft winches) for your jib?
>  
> Mike
> Persistence
> Halifax, NS
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck 
> Borge via CnC-List
> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 11:07 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Chuck Borge
> Subject: Re: Stus-List mainsheet set-up
>  
> Josh, 
> Thanks for jumping in. 
> 
> For reference, it looks like this diagram. 
> The traveler is on the bridge deck. The problem is the purchase. I might add 
> a triple at the top and move the double to the bottom. That will give me 3:1 
> instead. But it doesn’t solve my wanting to trim the jib on the aft winches. 
> Before I go buy a more traditional cascading set up like the Ronstan RP72900 
> 4:1/8:1, I want to think it out. 
>  
> Best,
> Chuck
>  
>  
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jun 7, 2018, at 10:14 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Chuck,
>  
> Any chance you have some pictures?  I tried google and sailboatdata but can't 
> tell if your boat has a cabin top traveler or a cockpit traveler?
>  
> Just for clarity, are you having trouble trimming the traveler or the 
> mainsheet?
>  
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk 
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD 
>  
> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018, 9:54 PM Chuck Borge via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> Hi Listers,
>  
> Anyone with a C 41 have suggestions on a mainsheet set-up?
> My new-to-me boat has a "German" mainsheet set-up that runs to the runner 
> winches.  It's supposed to be the hot set-up but I'm not impressed. 
> Since I'm using a 97% r/f jib, I find tacking that alone using the runner 
> winches to be pretty easy, but what to do with the main?   Also the 2:1 
> nature of the German set-up is not really that easy to trim, even with the 
> winches.
> I'm thinking I'd like a 4:1/8:1 more traditional set-up or a reasonable 
> suggestion(?).
> Thanks in advance for the help.
>  
> Chuck Borge
> C 41 Tenacious
> (formerly C 34 Elusive)
> Somerset, MA
> 508-642-3557
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List mainsheet set-up

[Francois Rivard via CnC-List]

That's a great setup Josh.

Ours is a bear for similar reasons with even less leverage on the cabin-top
traveler.

So far we just grinned and beared it. I'll put something similar on the to
do list :-)

-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, Georgia


My boat came setup from the PO with a cabin top mainsheet control to a
cabin top winch.  It was painfully under powered even with the winch.  My
traveler is located in the cockpit on the aft edge of the forward bench.  I
had previously, on other boats, only ever used a 4:1 mainsheet which was
trimmed at the traveler.  A convenient setup for tacking with a limited
crew or singlehanded.

The PO had tried a 6:1 or 8:1 trimmed at the traveler but justifiably
complained that there was too much extra line to be tripped on and tangled
in the cockpit or thrown below in the cabin.

I had seen the stacked fiddle block setup that makes 3:1/6:1 or 4:1/8:1.
While innovative, I decided that the bulk of the line would still be under
foot in the cockpit 95% of the time.

I ended up designing a cascading system which gives me a 12:1 "tweaker"
which is readily available in the cockpit and a 3:1 which runs to the cabin
top winch for the deep down wind runs.  TBH the tweaker and the traveler
together usually give enough range for all but the deepest down wind runs.
Even though the 3:1 is terminated at a winch it is extremely rare that we
need to use it since the traveler and tweaker are available to make up for
that which the 3:1 cannot.

Based in your picture it appears that my setup may be useful on your boat.
Basically you would eliminate either the port or starboard control which
you currently have.  Install a 4:1 or 6:1 fiddle block between boom and
traveler, and have the free end now terminate with a cam cleat at the
traveler side.  With no other purchase changes it looks like a 4:1 could be
arranged to produce 5:1 compounded with the existing 2:1 and you would have
10:1.  With the compromise of more line on the deck you could push it to
12:1 or 14:1 with the application of a 6:1 instead.  Here is a link to some
pictures of my setup.  If you need more description or better pictures just
let me know.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yY3Qtbi1VSllwM3M

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
___

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Re: Stus-List mainsheet set-up

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Hi Chuck

I have seen your setup on a C 115.  The 115 typically has the main sheet on 
either side go directly from traveler to aft winches but on the 115 I mentioned 
it went along boom to mast and then down and back.

With your current setup could you not use the primaries for the main sheet when 
you wish to use the secondaries (aft winches) for your jib?

Mike
Persistence
Halifax, NS

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Borge 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 11:07 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Chuck Borge
Subject: Re: Stus-List mainsheet set-up

Josh,
Thanks for jumping in.
[image1.gif]
For reference, it looks like this diagram.
The traveler is on the bridge deck. The problem is the purchase. I might add a 
triple at the top and move the double to the bottom. That will give me 3:1 
instead. But it doesn’t solve my wanting to trim the jib on the aft winches.
Before I go buy a more traditional cascading set up like the Ronstan RP72900 
4:1/8:1, I want to think it out.

Best,
Chuck


Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 7, 2018, at 10:14 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Chuck,

Any chance you have some pictures?  I tried google and sailboatdata but can't 
tell if your boat has a cabin top traveler or a cockpit traveler?

Just for clarity, are you having trouble trimming the traveler or the mainsheet?

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018, 9:54 PM Chuck Borge via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Hi Listers,

Anyone with a C 41 have suggestions on a mainsheet set-up?
My new-to-me boat has a "German" mainsheet set-up that runs to the runner 
winches.  It's supposed to be the hot set-up but I'm not impressed.
Since I'm using a 97% r/f jib, I find tacking that alone using the runner 
winches to be pretty easy, but what to do with the main?   Also the 2:1 nature 
of the German set-up is not really that easy to trim, even with the winches.
I'm thinking I'd like a 4:1/8:1 more traditional set-up or a reasonable 
suggestion(?).
Thanks in advance for the help.

Chuck Borge
C 41 Tenacious
(formerly C 34 Elusive)
Somerset, MA
508-642-3557
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List mainsheet set-up

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

My boat came setup from the PO with a cabin top mainsheet control to a
cabin top winch.  It was painfully under powered even with the winch.  My
traveler is located in the cockpit on the aft edge of the forward bench.  I
had previously, on other boats, only ever used a 4:1 mainsheet which was
trimmed at the traveler.  A convenient setup for tacking with a limited
crew or singlehanded.

The PO had tried a 6:1 or 8:1 trimmed at the traveler but justifiably
complained that there was too much extra line to be tripped on and tangled
in the cockpit or thrown below in the cabin.

I had seen the stacked fiddle block setup that makes 3:1/6:1 or 4:1/8:1.
While innovative, I decided that the bulk of the line would still be under
foot in the cockpit 95% of the time.

I ended up designing a cascading system which gives me a 12:1 "tweaker"
which is readily available in the cockpit and a 3:1 which runs to the cabin
top winch for the deep down wind runs.  TBH the tweaker and the traveler
together usually give enough range for all but the deepest down wind runs.
Even though the 3:1 is terminated at a winch it is extremely rare that we
need to use it since the traveler and tweaker are available to make up for
that which the 3:1 cannot.

Based in your picture it appears that my setup may be useful on your boat.
Basically you would eliminate either the port or starboard control which
you currently have.  Install a 4:1 or 6:1 fiddle block between boom and
traveler, and have the free end now terminate with a cam cleat at the
traveler side.  With no other purchase changes it looks like a 4:1 could be
arranged to produce 5:1 compounded with the existing 2:1 and you would have
10:1.  With the compromise of more line on the deck you could push it to
12:1 or 14:1 with the application of a 6:1 instead.  Here is a link to some
pictures of my setup.  If you need more description or better pictures just
let me know.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yY3Qtbi1VSllwM3M

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Fri, Jun 8, 2018, 10:07 AM Chuck Borge via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Josh,
> Thanks for jumping in.
> [image: image1.gif]
> For reference, it looks like this diagram.
> The traveler is on the bridge deck. The problem is the purchase. I might
> add a triple at the top and move the double to the bottom. That will give
> me 3:1 instead. But it doesn’t solve my wanting to trim the jib on the aft
> winches.
> Before I go buy a more traditional cascading set up like the Ronstan
> RP72900 4:1/8:1, I want to think it out.
>
> Best,
> Chuck
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 7, 2018, at 10:14 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Chuck,
>
> Any chance you have some pictures?  I tried google and sailboatdata but
> can't tell if your boat has a cabin top traveler or a cockpit traveler?
>
> Just for clarity, are you having trouble trimming the traveler or the
> mainsheet?
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018, 9:54 PM Chuck Borge via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Listers,
>>
>> Anyone with a C 41 have suggestions on a mainsheet set-up?
>> My new-to-me boat has a "German" mainsheet set-up that runs to the runner
>> winches.  It's supposed to be the hot set-up but I'm not impressed.
>> Since I'm using a 97% r/f jib, I find tacking that alone using the runner
>> winches to be pretty easy, but what to do with the main?   Also the 2:1
>> nature of the German set-up is not really that easy to trim, even with the
>> winches.
>> I'm thinking I'd like a 4:1/8:1 more traditional set-up or a reasonable
>> suggestion(?).
>> Thanks in advance for the help.
>>
>> *Chuck Borge*
>> *C 41 Tenacious*
>> *(formerly C 34 Elusive)*
>> *Somerset, MA*
>> *508-642-3557*
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List mainsheet set-up

[Chuck Borge via CnC-List]

Josh, 
Thanks for jumping in. 

For reference, it looks like this diagram. 
The traveler is on the bridge deck. The problem is the purchase. I might add a 
triple at the top and move the double to the bottom. That will give me 3:1 
instead. But it doesn’t solve my wanting to trim the jib on the aft winches. 
Before I go buy a more traditional cascading set up like the Ronstan RP72900 
4:1/8:1, I want to think it out. 

Best,
Chuck


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 7, 2018, at 10:14 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Chuck,
> 
> Any chance you have some pictures?  I tried google and sailboatdata but can't 
> tell if your boat has a cabin top traveler or a cockpit traveler?
> 
> Just for clarity, are you having trouble trimming the traveler or the 
> mainsheet?
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk 
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD 
> 
>> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018, 9:54 PM Chuck Borge via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> Hi Listers,
>> 
>> Anyone with a C 41 have suggestions on a mainsheet set-up?
>> My new-to-me boat has a "German" mainsheet set-up that runs to the runner 
>> winches.  It's supposed to be the hot set-up but I'm not impressed. 
>> Since I'm using a 97% r/f jib, I find tacking that alone using the runner 
>> winches to be pretty easy, but what to do with the main?   Also the 2:1 
>> nature of the German set-up is not really that easy to trim, even with the 
>> winches.
>> I'm thinking I'd like a 4:1/8:1 more traditional set-up or a reasonable 
>> suggestion(?).
>> Thanks in advance for the help.
>> 
>> Chuck Borge
>> C 41 Tenacious
>> (formerly C 34 Elusive)
>> Somerset, MA
>> 508-642-3557
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List mainsheet set-up

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Chuck,

Any chance you have some pictures?  I tried google and sailboatdata but
can't tell if your boat has a cabin top traveler or a cockpit traveler?

Just for clarity, are you having trouble trimming the traveler or the
mainsheet?

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018, 9:54 PM Chuck Borge via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Hi Listers,
>
> Anyone with a C 41 have suggestions on a mainsheet set-up?
> My new-to-me boat has a "German" mainsheet set-up that runs to the runner
> winches.  It's supposed to be the hot set-up but I'm not impressed.
> Since I'm using a 97% r/f jib, I find tacking that alone using the runner
> winches to be pretty easy, but what to do with the main?   Also the 2:1
> nature of the German set-up is not really that easy to trim, even with the
> winches.
> I'm thinking I'd like a 4:1/8:1 more traditional set-up or a reasonable
> suggestion(?).
> Thanks in advance for the help.
>
> *Chuck Borge*
> *C 41 Tenacious*
> *(formerly C 34 Elusive)*
> *Somerset, MA*
> *508-642-3557*
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List mainsheet set-up

[Chuck Borge via CnC-List]

Hi Listers,

Anyone with a C 41 have suggestions on a mainsheet set-up?
My new-to-me boat has a "German" mainsheet set-up that runs to the runner
winches.  It's supposed to be the hot set-up but I'm not impressed.
Since I'm using a 97% r/f jib, I find tacking that alone using the runner
winches to be pretty easy, but what to do with the main?   Also the 2:1
nature of the German set-up is not really that easy to trim, even with the
winches.
I'm thinking I'd like a 4:1/8:1 more traditional set-up or a reasonable
suggestion(?).
Thanks in advance for the help.

*Chuck Borge*
*C 41 Tenacious*
*(formerly C 34 Elusive)*
*Somerset, MA*
*508-642-3557*
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray