Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
On Thu, 3 May 2007, Hans L wrote: > I know at least one simple fix for shaving off a few grams. IMO there > is really no reason to have *two* speakers in the phone. Take one out. > AFAIK Stereo sound works best when the sources are far apart, but in > this case they are essentially coming from the same point in space. Agreed. Stereo sound on devices like that is best through headphones. Now, if one of the speakers was detachable via bluetooth, *THAT* would be cool. But *OH* the battery headaches... ..Chuck.. -- http://www.quantumlinux.com Quantum Linux Laboratories, LLC. ACCELERATING Business with Open Technology "The measure of the restoration lies in the extent to which we apply social values more noble than mere monetary profit." - FDR 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Hmm... I cannot find any good reason to have 2 speakers eighter. Maybe the reason is that they want the sound to be better distributed in all direction? - Anyway, you can always remove one or two speakers when you get the phone. It is not very complicated. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Hans L writes: >I know at least one simple fix for shaving off a few grams. IMO there >is really no reason to have *two* speakers in the phone. Take one >out. AFAIK Stereo sound works best when the sources are far apart, >but in this case they are essentially coming from the same point in >space. I'm afraid my suggestion related to the speakers wouldn't help space or weight: move one next to the mic. If the unit is on its side for watching a video (which would also give the biggest useablescreen area), they would be as far apart as possible, and probably far enough to have some stereo effect. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
I know at least one simple fix for shaving off a few grams. IMO there is really no reason to have *two* speakers in the phone. Take one out. AFAIK Stereo sound works best when the sources are far apart, but in this case they are essentially coming from the same point in space. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
IFAIK, correct me if I am mistaking, the heavy parts is the battery and the plastic (and maybe the touch screen). The phone is intended as a developer phone, and it has a lot of extra stuff like gps, jTag, and more... For me it is important that the phone is solid (don't break when I drop it) and that I can change battery and sd card (remember that you can't even change the battery in iPhone). The functionality is most important. I can hook up usb gadgets to it, or solder in some home brew hw. And I can write open source software for it. I think future versions could be smaller but for now I am more than happy if only I can get one. I don't care if it is 100g or 200g. I understand that a light and small phone is good but a heavy phone is much better than waiting 3 or 5 more months for a redesign. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Ian Stirling writes: >Sander van Grieken wrote: >>> Ian Stirling wrote: >>> That's not solely robustness though, air resistance helps lots too. >> >> Hmm do you propose a furry casing? > >I have in the past proposed little legs and arms like seen in the adverts. >Fur would just be fun. >However. >To stop it getting tangled up, it'd have to be able to groom itself. That's what the little arms and legs are for. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Sander van Grieken wrote: Ian Stirling wrote: That's not solely robustness though, air resistance helps lots too. Hmm do you propose a furry casing? I have in the past proposed little legs and arms like seen in the adverts. Fur would just be fun. However. To stop it getting tangled up, it'd have to be able to groom itself. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
I think is better to compare with this nokia new model, price is also interesting( in Italy) 9300i 172g 132x51x21 mm 126cc 475€ wifi E65 115g 105x49x15.5mm74cc 360€ wifi N95 120g 99x53x21mm 728€ GPS+wifi also interesting this model without phone: N800 206g 75x144x13 mm 137 cc 392€ wifi ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
> Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: > That's not solely robustness though, air resistance helps lots too. Hmm do you propose a furry casing? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Hello I have been using for several years now a Nokia 7710. It is a little bigger than the Neo. * Weight:189 g * Dimensions:128 x 69.5 x 19 mm But the greatest feature about this mobile phone is the screen size and resolution. * 640 x 320 pixel Reading my email and attached documents or browsing the web is so much better. I would not settled for a small 320 x 240 screen. I also have installed Tomtom and use the phone for navigation with a bluetooth GPS. Again the screen size / resolution and therefore phone size is a plus. I have looked at several alternatives that have an integrated GPS and have a possibility to write software in an opensource env. I first was interested in the ImCoSys phone ( http://www.imcosys.com/ ), but the screen resolution bothers me as explained above. Now I am waiting to get my hands on the Neo with openmoko. I really like the whole project, good work guys. Philipp ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 03.05.2007 um 13:32 schrieb Ian Stirling: wim delvaux wrote: FWIW, most of these 'light' phones do seem so 'fragile'. It looks like any drop from pocket or table might smash them to bits. Less weight generally means more flimsy devices. No. It is easy to make a fragile looking device that is robust and vice versa. It is more the mixture of materials that determines the robustness and finishing which determines how robust it looks. And finally a smaller device has less inertia so it is more robust. Look at an ant. It can fall from 10m and survives... That's not solely robustness though, air resistance helps lots too. I suppose it's not that long given current trends till phones can be dropped from any distance as they'll hit terminal velocity at a safe speed. I suppose some stuff - microSD cards, for example, already can be dropped from any height. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Am 03.05.2007 um 13:32 schrieb Ian Stirling: wim delvaux wrote: FWIW, most of these 'light' phones do seem so 'fragile'. It looks like any drop from pocket or table might smash them to bits. Less weight generally means more flimsy devices. No. It is easy to make a fragile looking device that is robust and vice versa. It is more the mixture of materials that determines the robustness and finishing which determines how robust it looks. And finally a smaller device has less inertia so it is more robust. Look at an ant. It can fall from 10m and survives... I have had the NEO in my hands and although the numbers may make if sound like it is chunky it is not AND when held gives you the feeling that it is rather drop-safe. Personally I prefer 'robustness' over 'light weight'. (Hell, I still run around with my NOKIA 6130 which to any modern standard looks like a brick, but I lost track of how many times it dropped on the floor) This is why I want some tests. I want a few - say 3 or 4 - representative neo1973's, with the production case, though PCB style possibly isn't so important, dropped from progressively increasing heights (one test onto carpet, one onto concrete), on all six sides, all functionality verified until they break. (say 10cm, 14cm, 20cm, 28, 40, ...) Similar tests done with dropping a 10mm steel ball onto the display. No, of course I don't plan on dropping it. It would be rather nice to know 'it will probably die if I drop it 1m onto concrete'. It is industry standard to do such drop tests for consumer devices. A mobile phone manufacturer I know much better than FIC, has made drop tests from 1.5m onto concrete and a device had to pass 10 such falls without noticable severe damage (only the battery compartment was allowed to open and the battery come out and of course some scratches). So, I would assume that FIC's quality assurance department already does such tests - and I hope they publish the results. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
wim delvaux wrote: FWIW, most of these 'light' phones do seem so 'fragile'. It looks like any drop from pocket or table might smash them to bits. Less weight generally means more flimsy devices. I have had the NEO in my hands and although the numbers may make if sound like it is chunky it is not AND when held gives you the feeling that it is rather drop-safe. Personally I prefer 'robustness' over 'light weight'. (Hell, I still run around with my NOKIA 6130 which to any modern standard looks like a brick, but I lost track of how many times it dropped on the floor) This is why I want some tests. I want a few - say 3 or 4 - representative neo1973's, with the production case, though PCB style possibly isn't so important, dropped from progressively increasing heights (one test onto carpet, one onto concrete), on all six sides, all functionality verified until they break. (say 10cm, 14cm, 20cm, 28, 40, ...) Similar tests done with dropping a 10mm steel ball onto the display. No, of course I don't plan on dropping it. It would be rather nice to know 'it will probably die if I drop it 1m onto concrete'. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Plenty of good points well made and also some good points not so well made ;) The fact that FIC are keen to build a whole slew of devices about openmoko is great news and I hope that we will see different form factor phones as well as other devices. That said I am almost more excited about getting more openmokos out in the wild because I am sure that we are going to see a good amount of hardware hacking as well as software. If weight is an issue for some it would be interesting to see component breakdown from a weight point of view, see where the difference in weight comes from. Personally, I like weighty and am more bothered about bulky. Am I right in thinking that the Neo hardware designs are almost as open as openmoko? Would be interesting to see a bit of community design from that side of things. Cherry pick from current designs or something entirely new. I wonder how small you could squeeze down Neo hardware if you had a fixed battery with much smaller cover for sim and micro sd? I've not plucked up teh courage to take apart my ipod nano yet but I have always wondered how they get that little thing together from a manufacturing point of view. Obviously the metal case would be rubbish for a phone and there is no way I'm suggesting anything that small... On 03/05/07, wim delvaux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: FWIW, most of these 'light' phones do seem so 'fragile'. It looks like any drop from pocket or table might smash them to bits. Less weight generally means more flimsy devices. I have had the NEO in my hands and although the numbers may make if sound like it is chunky it is not AND when held gives you the feeling that it is rather drop-safe. Personally I prefer 'robustness' over 'light weight'. (Hell, I still run around with my NOKIA 6130 which to any modern standard looks like a brick, but I lost track of how many times it dropped on the floor) W ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
FWIW, most of these 'light' phones do seem so 'fragile'. It looks like any drop from pocket or table might smash them to bits. Less weight generally means more flimsy devices. I have had the NEO in my hands and although the numbers may make if sound like it is chunky it is not AND when held gives you the feeling that it is rather drop-safe. Personally I prefer 'robustness' over 'light weight'. (Hell, I still run around with my NOKIA 6130 which to any modern standard looks like a brick, but I lost track of how many times it dropped on the floor) W ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Andreas Kostyrka wrote: > Sven Neuhaus wrote: >> here's the size and weight of a few touchscreen mobile phones: > >> Neo1973 iPhone M600i LG Prada >> length (mm) 120.7115 107 98.8 >> width 62 61 57 54 >> height18.5 11.6 15 12 >> weight (g)184 135 112 85 >> screen (inch) 2.8 3.5 2.6 3.0 > > It's a smartphone, so let's compare it to smartphones: > Nokia 9500: 56.9mm x 148.1mm x 23.9mm 229.9g > T-mobile Vario II:58.0mm x 113.0mm x 22.0mm 160.0g > Nokia E61 69.7mm x 117.0mm x 14.0mm 144.0g I wouldn't compare the Neo1973 to these three phones because they have large keyboards which is why they are so heavy. But isn't the Vario II 176g? > T-mobile MDA compact III: 58.0mm x 108.0mm x 17.0mm 127.0g That one is a case in point: It's a lot lighter and somewhat smaller. > Sorry, that doesn't look that bad to me. Actually, these are all devices > without GPS, OTOH, they do have a better GSM/UMTS module. > Btw, no matter how it's discussed, the iPhone is not a smartphone, it > misses the category defining extensibility. AFAIK you can install new applications on it as long as they are approved by Apple. Sounds like a smartphone to me, albeit with limitations. I don't see how this has anything to do with its size and weight though. Apple could theoretically change a few bits in the software and this limitation would be gone without increasing the size or weight of the phone. > And when we are at the topic > of the iPhone. It's technically even more vaporware then Neo => it's > just announced, ... Journalists already played with prototype units. Sounds like its in the same stage as the Neo1973. Marcin Juszkiewicz brought up the HTC Artemis which is also a lot lighter and got flamed because it runs Windows Mobile. I don't see how this is relevant to this discussion. The OS doesn't make a phone thicker or heavier - remember, originally the Neo1973 was also capable of running Windows. All I'm saying is that the Neo1973 is awfully thick and heavy and I'm asking FIC to please consider making a thinner and lighter phone soon. We all want OpenMoko to succeed - I am sure there is a significant amount of people who will not buy this phone because it's just too bulky for them. Regards, -Sven Neuhaus ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
