Re: New Oceans
Hi, On Monday 02 July 2007 20:17:55 Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: If FIC does manage to get Ingram Micro or some other large distributor to carry the Neo, I would expect to start to seeing a street price much closer $300. I would like to see the Neo Advanced closer to $300. I am not familiar with your marketing strategies, but if the above price can be met, I have a gut feeling that you can get a large market share amongst enthusiastic FOSS folks in India. It is quite unfortunate in India that even though we get access to embedded development boards at work, it is very expensive to buy one and ship it to India (import laws? shipping costs?). It is much cheaper to buy in the US, and hand-carry (no problems here, though). I hope Neo will be the One! SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Brainstorm: less functionality per device, more devices
I just recently got my first bluetooth headset. This is only relevant because it got me thinking. The typical cell phone (including the Neo) is built upon the idea of putting as much functionality as possible into one device. And manufacturers have gotten very good at this. What if one took the UNIX approach to hardware development. Instead of monolithic do-everything devices, create many single purpose devices that do their jobs very well, and can be chained together. This approach has some advantages: 1) Easier (and cheaper) to upgrade. Need more processing power? Add another or a smarter cpu pebble. Need gps? Add a gps pebble. Need storage, add a storage pebble. Need a camera, add a camera earring or watch or ring. 2) Cheaper initial investment. A basic phone could be a headset, a gsm transmitter, and little tablet UI device. 3 (or maybe you stick the gsm transmitter in the ui, so 2) little cheap devices that can be sold for tens, rather than hundreds of dollars. However, as a consumer desires more functionality, they buy more devices. 3) Carry only the functionality you need. Are you going clubbing? Probably won't need that gps unit, or the media player. Heading out to the woods? Ditch the second cpu, but grab an extra battery. 4) Interoperability. By opening the standard up to many manufacturers, a more robust ecosystem is created, and the entire platform improves. Disadvantages: 1) More items to lose. Perhaps they could snap together, like legos, or be carried in some sort of bag all together? 2) Intra device bandwidth is at a premium. Bluetooth 3.0 is probably necessary if you want to keep your storage in a separate device from your cpu or your ui. This in turn creates extra demands on batteries. Again, perhaps a standard snap together interface can carry power and data. 3) Potential incompatibilities. Different devices might not speak the same protocol, even if they are supposed to. This can be disastrous when your cpu is not from the same company as your storage. 4) Potential security risks. Running all that data over the air means it is easier to read it, in the event that your encryption fails. And since encryption is likely to be run off a chip, rather than a more general purpose cpu, security holes are more difficult to fix. 5) Harder to write the software. Obviously, this makes your OS about 1000% more complicated. Anyway, it seems like it COULD be an interesting sort of thing to try. Jonas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS bluetooth receiver
Thank you very much for the answers. Isn't it great, 0) its straight forward 1) there is more than one solution 2) there is more than one way to implement a solution 3) the script that works on one Linux device will work for my device too I love Linux, the community and OpenMoko! Al - Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OpenMoko at OSCON?
Will there be an official or unofficial OpenMoko presence at The Oreilly Open Source Conference (OSCON) in Portland later this month? Seems like the perfect place for it... -- -- Dirk Bergstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://otisbean.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Brainstorm: less functionality per device, more devices
On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 04:31:03 -0400 Jonas Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just recently got my first bluetooth headset. This is only relevant because it got me thinking. The typical cell phone (including the Neo) is built upon the idea of putting as much functionality as possible into one device. And manufacturers have gotten very good at this. What if one took the UNIX approach to hardware development. Instead of monolithic do-everything devices, create many single purpose devices that do their jobs very well, and can be chained together. This approach has some advantages: 1) Easier (and cheaper) to upgrade. Need more processing power? Add another or a smarter cpu pebble. Need gps? Add a gps pebble. Need storage, add a storage pebble. Need a camera, add a camera earring or watch or ring. 2) Cheaper initial investment. A basic phone could be a headset, a gsm transmitter, and little tablet UI device. 3 (or maybe you stick the gsm transmitter in the ui, so 2) little cheap devices that can be sold for tens, rather than hundreds of dollars. However, as a consumer desires more functionality, they buy more devices. 3) Carry only the functionality you need. Are you going clubbing? Probably won't need that gps unit, or the media player. Heading out to the woods? Ditch the second cpu, but grab an extra battery. 4) Interoperability. By opening the standard up to many manufacturers, a more robust ecosystem is created, and the entire platform improves. Disadvantages: 1) More items to lose. Perhaps they could snap together, like legos, or be carried in some sort of bag all together? 2) Intra device bandwidth is at a premium. Bluetooth 3.0 is probably necessary if you want to keep your storage in a separate device from your cpu or your ui. This in turn creates extra demands on batteries. Again, perhaps a standard snap together interface can carry power and data. 3) Potential incompatibilities. Different devices might not speak the same protocol, even if they are supposed to. This can be disastrous when your cpu is not from the same company as your storage. 4) Potential security risks. Running all that data over the air means it is easier to read it, in the event that your encryption fails. And since encryption is likely to be run off a chip, rather than a more general purpose cpu, security holes are more difficult to fix. 5) Harder to write the software. Obviously, this makes your OS about 1000% more complicated. Anyway, it seems like it COULD be an interesting sort of thing to try. Jonas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Get on it then ;) Seriously though, I'm working on an opensource radio amateur project (http://hpsdr.org) and we are taking this sort of approach with it, it is still wired together through a backplane. -- Ewan Marshall (ewanm89) Geek by nature, Linux by choice. signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Brainstorm: less functionality per device, more devices
Quoting Jonas Meyer on 07/03/2007 08:31 AM UTC: The typical cell phone (including the Neo) is built upon the idea of putting as much functionality as possible into one device. And manufacturers have gotten very good at this. What if one took the UNIX approach to hardware development. Instead of monolithic do-everything devices, create many single purpose devices that do their jobs very well, and can be chained together. Yeah! This approach has some advantages: 1) Easier (and cheaper) to upgrade. Need more processing power? Add another or a smarter cpu pebble. Need gps? Add a gps pebble. Need storage, add a storage pebble. Need a camera, add a camera earring or watch or ring. Don't know about cpus but certainly storage and other snapgets that (already) work through usb or bluetooth today are interesting. 2) Cheaper initial investment. A basic phone could be a headset, a gsm transmitter, and little tablet UI device. 3 (or maybe you stick the gsm transmitter in the ui, so 2) little cheap devices that can be sold for tens, rather than hundreds of dollars. However, as a consumer desires more functionality, they buy more devices. I carry a backpack with me almost all the time. It would be nice to have batteries, gsm, wlan, gps and whatnot stuff in the backpack while having a lightweight display + keyboard and a headset for communication... Otoh the display would require quite a lot of bandwidth.. unless of course the X server ran on the display :D 3) Carry only the functionality you need. Are you going clubbing? Probably won't need that gps unit, or the media player. Heading out to the woods? Ditch the second cpu, but grab an extra battery. Interesting, although I probably would end up either wasting a lot of time collecting the parts I want or forgetting to switch parts when I go.. 4) Interoperability. By opening the standard up to many manufacturers, a more robust ecosystem is created, and the entire platform improves. I think the best would be to use already existing interfaces like usb and extension slots (like iPaq had for example). There could just be some moko-specific snap-on places on the back of the phone.. Disadvantages: 1) More items to lose. Perhaps they could snap together, like legos, or be carried in some sort of bag all together? Yeah, something like that.. 2) Intra device bandwidth is at a premium. Bluetooth 3.0 is probably necessary if you want to keep your storage in a separate device from your cpu or your ui. This in turn creates extra demands on batteries. Again, perhaps a standard snap together interface can carry power and data. 4) Potential security risks. Running all that data over the air means it is easier to read it, in the event that your encryption fails. And since encryption is likely to be run off a chip, rather than a more general purpose cpu, security holes are more difficult to fix. I would maybe rather have the bandwidth and information sensitive devices to be built in or connected by wired connectors. 5) Harder to write the software. Obviously, this makes your OS about 1000% more complicated. The OS already has HAL and whatnot hotplug stuff. I guess you mean the GUI.. to which I agree, but don't know about 1000% :) Anyway, it seems like it COULD be an interesting sort of thing to try. Heh, a Lego mindstorms snapget would be nice, you could have a lego robot with a computer walking around the house :) -- - xkr47 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Brainstorm: less functionality per device, more devices
On Tuesday 03 July 2007 10:31, Jonas Meyer wrote: Disadvantages: You forgot the most important disadvantage: bulk. It's not uncommon in modern devices for the connectors (especially if they need to be good for thousands of insertions) to be a major problem in layout design because of the space they take up. I'm aware that you probably were thinking using BT as a backplane, but that does only include the additional problem you already mentioned - checklists in order not to forget parts home or someplace else. Another disadvantage not mentioned in the list is cost - a monolithic device will usually cost less with the same functionality (since you have one mass-produced item and not small series addons, no separate packaging, etc). In the end, a device that does little on its own but has a myriad of addons does not necessarily mean it would be cheaper to produce :( ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS can work stand-alone (Re: Advertising/hype)
No excuses left Nick. Seems that you have to write a wefi clone :) Mathias Mikko Rauhala schrieb: ma, 2007-07-02 kello 22:31 +1200, Nick Johnson kirjoitti: NZ has GPRS, but my understanding was that the AGPS requires the network to explicitly support it to get the assist data - that's certainly what everything I've read has indicated. I thought it was also required to get a fix at all - that the AGPS chip offloads some of the harder work onto the network, as that's what a workmate told me - but if he's wrong, I'm glad. ;) Well, the AGPS concept isn't exactly well-defined, and operators have at least tried to get their explicit services to be necessary for the operation of such devices. Even position calculation offloading has been considered, maybe even implemented somewhere (dunno), but that's rather ludicurous, as it's not really that CPU intensive. Anyway, the Global Locate AGPS chip/driver combination is indeed of the flexible variety that _can_ function standalone, but can also take advantage of assist data for faster/better fixing. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS can work stand-alone (Re: Advertising/hype)
On 7/3/07, Mathias Rüdiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No excuses left Nick. Seems that you have to write a wefi clone :) Looks like it. ;) Actually, I was thinking something more OpenMoko specific - a sort of enhanced PIM that lets you store locations and contacts (and contacts with locations) side-by-side, and a corresponding API so other bits can take advantage of the data (like the aforementioned muting-when-entering-cinema stuff). The other idea for a 'killer mobile gps app' that occurred to me is some sort of dynamic-flash-mob system, where you can express interest in various activities, and it'll detect whenever a 'critical mass' of people for a given activity are close enough together and buzz them all. Imagine walking past a stranger and suddenly your cellphones buzz to let you know you're both interested in a quick game of something... Obviously there are some pretty significant privacy issues that would be hard to get around for an application like that, though. -Nick Johnson ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Brainstorm: less functionality per device, more devices
Jonas Meyer wrote: Instead of monolithic do-everything devices, create many single purpose devices that do their jobs very well, and can be chained together. I've been thinking about the same thing. With the recent arrival of USB-connected monitors (powered by DisplayLink chips) and wireless USB, it's only a matter of time until the touchscreen display (perhaps w/ speaker + microphone) is separated from the rest of the phone/pda or, perhaps as a first step, additional (large) displays can be connected via wireless USB. It would be great if OpenMoko hardware is among the first to get on this bandwagon. Btw, if you go to http://www.displaylink.com/products/applications.htm and click on Ethernet-based thin clients they do claim Linux compatability... -Sven ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Phase 1 for normal users
Will phase 1 be useful to normal users - like my wife? Is there a reason for her to fork out $300 to get a phone that functions just as good as her current SonyEricsson T360? (obviously excluding all the fancy stuff that is possible, but not yet implemented) The basic apps on the wiki is very basic. E-Mail disclaimer: http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Package manager
Is there a project (or plans for one) to simplify adding and removing apps to the Moko? Users will want to download and install apps - from official repos (and obviously 3rd party) E-Mail disclaimer: http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Package manager
Hans, Debian ? Ubuntu? Click N Run? :) That of course is a 'commercial' venue. Other than that, I guess an apt-get/yum repository can make it. Regards, -Urivan Flores-Saaib ==Original message text=== On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:37:14 +0100 Hans van der Merwe wrote: Is there a project (or plans for one) to simplify adding and removing apps to the Moko? Users will want to download and install apps - from official repos (and obviously 3rd party) E-Mail disclaimer: http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ===End of original message text=== ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS can work stand-alone (Re: Advertising/hype)
On 7/3/07, Urivan Saaib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nick, I was thinking of something ala DNS, where the application can discover pieces of metadata associated to real-world items (you name it) categorized in a standard an open way. Users could add/edit/remove their own choices to customize what they want from their devices (getting closer to/getting far from vs state/status of the element associated to metadata. This could bring a benefic impact on the number/type of applications developed not only for OpenMoko but for any device that could gain access to a GPS hardware. Coincidentally, I was just thinking about integration with Freebase (http://www.freebase.com/), which would accomplish most of what you list. :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS can work stand-alone (Re: Advertising/hype)
Nick, I noticed the freebase.com website requires invitation, do you have access to it? Also, the license of the service is free for non-commercial only, do you have any considerations in this topic? How will this affect the adoption of new developments? Also, custom metadata repositories and replication (commercial services) do not seem feasible with freebase.com. Regards, -Urivan Flores-Saaib ==Original message text=== On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:47:54 +0100 Nick Johnson wrote: On 7/3/07, Urivan Saaib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nick, I was thinking of something ala DNS, where the application can discover pieces of metadata associated to real-world items (you name it) categorized in a standard an open way. Users could add/edit/remove their own choices to customize what they want from their devices (getting closer to/getting far from vs state/status of the element associated to metadata. This could bring a benefic impact on the number/type of applications developed not only for OpenMoko but for any device that could gain access to a GPS hardware. Coincidentally, I was just thinking about integration with Freebase (http://www.freebase.com/), which would accomplish most of what youlist. :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ===End of original message text=== ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Package manager
On Tue, 2007-07-03 at 11:49 +0100, Urivan Saaib wrote: Hans, Debian ? Ubuntu? Click N Run? :) That of course is a 'commercial' venue. Other than that, I guess an apt-get/yum repository can make it. Regards, -Urivan Flores-Saaib ==Original message text=== On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:37:14 +0100 Hans van der Merwe wrote: Is there a project (or plans for one) to simplify adding and removing apps to the Moko? Users will want to download and install apps - from official repos (and obviously 3rd party) Well, apt-get, smart or any other backend is fine. But what about a user-friendly front-end. E-Mail disclaimer: http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Phase 1 for normal users
Hans van der Merwe wrote: Will phase 1 be useful to normal users - like my wife? Is there a reason for her to fork out $300 to get a phone that functions just as good as her current SonyEricsson T360? (obviously excluding all the fancy stuff that is possible, but not yet implemented) The basic apps on the wiki is very basic. Absolutely not. At the moment it has less functionality in core phone duties than a Nokia 3310. It will be at least a month or two, before it's even marginally useful to 'normal' users who expect it to be a phone. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
You're in luck - special savings inside.
Title: This Week (JULY 3-9) Having trouble viewing this e-mail? Click here - Advertisement - > Clubs in our free Online Health Clubs > Save with us ® > Remember the Date with free Gift Reminders > Watch Exclusive Saves in our site How to Unsubscribe: This message was sent to community@lists.openmoko.org on July 3, 2007. If you no longer wish to receive promotional email from us, please visit bn.com, log in to your account, and follow the instructions under Change Your Communications Preferences. Please note that product prices and availability are subject to change. © 2007 Barnes llc. All Rights Reserved. BN.com Customer Preferences, 76 Ninth Avenue, 9th Floor, New York, NY 10011 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Package manager
I would have thought ipkg would make more sense as it's already used by most distros for handhelds, mainly because it has a smaller footprint than dpkg/apt or rpm/yum. There are several GUI frontends to this, but GPE-Package is probably a good starting point as it uses GTK+ already. http://gpe.handhelds.org/projects/gpe-package.shtml On Tuesday 03 July 2007 11:49, Urivan Saaib wrote: Hans, Debian ? Ubuntu? Click N Run? :) That of course is a 'commercial' venue. Other than that, I guess an apt-get/yum repository can make it. Regards, -Urivan Flores-Saaib ==Original message text=== On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:37:14 +0100 Hans van der Merwe wrote: Is there a project (or plans for one) to simplify adding and removing apps to the Moko? Users will want to download and install apps - from official repos (and obviously 3rd party) E-Mail disclaimer: http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ===End of original message text=== ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS can work stand-alone (Re: Advertising/hype)
Um, advanced hide and seek, your getting warmer... hot, hot, colder... On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:40:50 +0100 Urivan Saaib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nick, I was thinking of something ala DNS, where the application can discover pieces of metadata associated to real-world items (you name it) categorized in a standard an open way. Users could add/edit/remove their own choices to customize what they want from their devices (getting closer to/getting far from vs state/status of the element associated to metadata. This could bring a benefic impact on the number/type of applications developed not only for OpenMoko but for any device that could gain access to a GPS hardware. Btw, I've been keeping track on the mailing list, reading quitely...Congratulations to all of you (hardware, software) for the excelent work. Regards, -Urivan Flores Saaib ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Ewan Marshall (ewanm89) Geek by nature, Linux by choice. signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: An alternative gaming top case
I would definitely be interested in a 'gaming' case for the neo - it opens up the possibility of having emulated games on the it, which would be huge. Thanks. Richard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS can work stand-alone (Re: Advertising/hype)
Nick Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The other idea for a 'killer mobile gps app' that occurred to me is some sort of dynamic-flash-mob system, where you can express interest in various activities, and it'll detect whenever a 'critical mass' of people for a given activity are close enough together and buzz them all. Imagine walking past a stranger and suddenly your cellphones buzz to let you know you're both interested in a quick game of something... That sounds like great fun. Do you plan to introduce a central server and use a critical radius of a kilometer, or do you want to use wifi. I guess that wifi requires a fairly large userbase. Is it possible to design a system that worked with a central server without having the users reveal their position and identity all the time? On a related note I think that Slashdot once had a story about a (bluetooth based??) Japanese dating gadget that worked in a similar fashion. They had to buy the gadget, encode their preferences, and then wait for the unexpected buzz of finding a perfect match. They must have used some kind of encoding to prevent abuse, but I am not sure how it worked. On an even less related note it could be fun to keep a log-file of the wifi phones that stay in your vicinity for more than an hour (ignoring public transport). Then your phone can tell you whether or not you have met a given person before. Perhaps you can use data from the log file to query friends for further information or a vcard. This idea might require a lot of storage and a way to filter out routers, but it could lead to some fun. Enough babling... Actually I just wanted to wish you all good luck with finishing up the phones. I am looking forward to buying one. Niels ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: An alternative gaming top case
Hey. I was also thinking about some usb-interfacing-docking-station-sort-of-thing. Since I am a bit into woodcarving, i was thinking about making som sort of wooden outer envelope which interfaces through usb, has an incorporated usb-hub, some sort of d-pad and maybe other functionalities (like a camera). But this was just an idea for something done by myself for myself.. nothing special. What i really like to point out is a simple question: will this still remain a phone or will it become a second GP2 (http://www.gp2x.com/)? Maybe we could contact the GP2-team and make some sort of Neo-to-GP-connecting-thing. It could supply something like nintendo ds: Touch screen at the top, and a gaming device with d-pad at the bottom. Everything with the 3d accelerometeers, the gps, and al lthe other fancy stuff.. it would open thousands of possibilities. just my 2 bits.. -- My corner of the web: http://ramsesoriginal.wordpress.com My dream, my world: http://abenu.wordpress.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: An alternative gaming top case
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 4:01, Robin Paulson wrote: excuse my ignorance, but do you mean a 3d scanner as in a device for measuring a 3d object? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_scanner if you do, and have a Neo, that would be awesome. any chance of using it to produce an electronic model of the case that you could share with us? as for formats - i presume you mean file formats. something open like .blend would be good, or more commonly, .stl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STL_(file_format), those are accepted by pretty much every 3d modeller out there Yep. But unfortunately I do not yet have a neo1973. .stl I gathered but I had not thought of .blend Basically all a 3d scanner does is build up a point cloud for the contours of an object and then kinda wrap it in a skin. If the resolution of the point cloud is high enough you can make out some pretty fine detail. In this case (no pun intended) I believe it will work pretty well. --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Package manager
On Tue, 2007-07-03 at 13:53 +, Lalo Martins wrote: Also spracht Al Johnson (Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:23:56 +0100): I would have thought ipkg would make more sense as it's already used by most distros for handhelds, mainly because it has a smaller footprint than dpkg/apt or rpm/yum. I was going to say that. ipkg is already installed on the moko image, and comes pre-configured to download packages from the net (but the repository is still empty, of course). best, Lalo Martins Ah, great - just checking. E-Mail disclaimer: http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Custom case designs...
I have been thinking a little more about this and I struck upon an idea... What if you could buy a custom case with a custom message on it. I am not talking about painted messages but letters and shapes cast into the plastic shell. Raised, sunk, custom fonts etc. Naturally we can't just replicate the exact neo1973 shell without permission, but maybe something like it and removing the FIC logo (unless we get permission to use it) or the like. This is more of a vanity thing than a functional thing.. But what do people think of it? --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Why iPhone using AJAX was genius
Quite self-explanatory: http://www.rev2.org/2007/07/02/top-25-web-apps-for-the-iphone/ I'm not saying we have to do the same, but if we manage complete compatibility... (which should be possible as soon as we have a functional gdk webkit port -- which is almost there). An interesting aspect for OpenMoko is to use this together (but sandboxed) with private server apps that offer http interfaces (ssh over http tunnel or wifi/bluetooth direct home connection) on an NSLU2/WL-500G like companion device. And we'll even stil have the possibility of traditional apps... What a short development time for so many features ! Cheers Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
First they wil lthink that it's a rip-off of the iPod customisation. Then they will think that it's not useful, not functional, only thrown-away money. Then they will see how cool it looks at their buddy's neo, and will buy one for themselves ;) On 7/3/07, Tim Newsom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been thinking a little more about this and I struck upon an idea... What if you could buy a custom case with a custom message on it. I am not talking about painted messages but letters and shapes cast into the plastic shell. Raised, sunk, custom fonts etc. Naturally we can't just replicate the exact neo1973 shell without permission, but maybe something like it and removing the FIC logo (unless we get permission to use it) or the like. This is more of a vanity thing than a functional thing.. But what do people think of it? --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- My corner of the web: http://ramsesoriginal.wordpress.com My dream, my world: http://abenu.wordpress.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Package manager
Also spracht Hans van der Merwe (Tue, 03 Jul 2007 16:33:04 +0200): On Tue, 2007-07-03 at 13:53 +, Lalo Martins wrote: ... ipkg is already installed on the moko image, and comes pre-configured to download packages from the net (but the repository is still empty, of course). Ah, great - just checking. No, but still, you have a good point; a GUI front-end would be better. The gpe-package project looks nice, I don't know if it needs to be MokoIzed though (shouldn't be too hard if it does). Also, I haven't actually installed it, so I don't know how good is the search facility -- which IMHO is essential for something like that. best, Lalo Martins -- So many of our dreams at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we summon the will, they soon become inevitable. - personal:http://lalo.hystericalraisins.net/ technical:http://www.hystericalraisins.net/ GNU: never give up freedom http://www.gnu.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why iPhone using AJAX was genius
On Tuesday 03 July 2007 16:43, Florent THIERY wrote: over http tunnel or wifi/bluetooth direct home connection) on an NSLU2/WL-500G like companion device. Apropos NSLU2, some time ago I made a couple of industrial-style data collecting NSLU2-s which have usb Wifi and/or a GM862 gsm/gprs module attached to them via serial port and some mass storage on USB. This is roughly the functionality of a Neo, which could do all of this and some more. Would it be possible on the long run to get OEM versions of the Neo1973, like, without case/microSD/power adapter/battery/etc (possibly even without display), just the finished PCB with components ? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS can work stand-alone (Re: Advertising/hype)
On Tue, July 3, 2007 2:33 pm, Niels L. Ellegaard wrote: On a related note I think that Slashdot once had a story about a (bluetooth based??) Japanese dating gadget that worked in a similar fashion. They had to buy the gadget, encode their preferences, and then wait for the unexpected buzz of finding a perfect match. They must have used some kind of encoding to prevent abuse, but I am not sure how it worked. Nokia have software to do that with their S60 smartphones. I don't think it has a large enough user base to be useful. (even though there are ~100 million compatible phones out there). http://europe.nokia.com/A4144923 On an even less related note it could be fun to keep a log-file of the wifi phones that stay in your vicinity for more than an hour (ignoring public transport). Then your phone can tell you whether or not you have met a given person before. Perhaps you can use data from the log file to query friends for further information or a vcard. This idea might require a lot of storage and a way to filter out routers, but it could lead to some fun. I think if you are going to do that, you would be better off doing it with Bluetooth, as there are many more BT devices out there, and most people leave BT switched on, as it does not drain the battery much. -- David Pottage Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Package manager
Al Johnson writes: I would have thought ipkg would make more sense as it's already used by most distros for handhelds, mainly because it has a smaller footprint than dpkg/apt or rpm/yum. There are several GUI frontends to this, but GPE-Package is probably a good starting point as it uses GTK+ already. http://gpe.handhelds.org/projects/gpe-package.shtml Besides, ipkg is already what's planned... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
cool idea! I want to have one with the GNU logo on the back. :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
On Tue, 2007-07-03 at 16:52 +0200, ramsesoriginal wrote: First they wil lthink that it's a rip-off of the iPod customisation. Then they will think that it's not useful, not functional, only thrown-away money. Then they will see how cool it looks at their buddy's neo, and will buy one for themselves ;) On 7/3/07, Tim Newsom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been thinking a little more about this and I struck upon an idea... What if you could buy a custom case with a custom message on it. I am not talking about painted messages but letters and shapes cast into the plastic shell. Raised, sunk, custom fonts etc. Naturally we can't just replicate the exact neo1973 shell without permission, but maybe something like it and removing the FIC logo (unless we get permission to use it) or the like. This is more of a vanity thing than a functional thing.. But what do people think of it? --Tim Some of the guys here at work (actually most of them) seem to hate the rounded sides/corners of the phone - any plans maybe on making it rectangular? ps. Im an engineer - I dont care what it looks like :) E-Mail disclaimer: http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
Hans van der Merwe schrieb: On Tue, 2007-07-03 at 16:52 +0200, ramsesoriginal wrote: Some of the guys here at work (actually most of them) seem to hate the rounded sides/corners of the phone - any plans maybe on making it rectangular? ps. Im an engineer - I dont care what it looks like :) these are exactly the reactions i got from my friends.. specially as the mainbord seems rectangular, i wouldn't like to see it with this rounded top and bottom.. ..and all i want is 3G.. :( ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[France] Grouping orders,
Hello Openmokogeeks, will it be possible for FIC to group some GTA01 shipping ? If yes, does some of you living in Paris would like to share the shipping cost ? Thanks to all and for everything, you are doing great job !!! Regards, Foucault -- Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Photos : Updated 22 mai 2006 http://foucault.debonneval.free.fr/mGallery/ FreePhone : +33 (0) 871 73 53 96 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 34, Issue 17
About custom case design for the Neo and beyond; I am very interested in this idea. I have a cnc router at my disposal and can make custom parts from materials such as Corian and exotic hardwoods and some soft metals. I'd love to see some spec's, maybe .dwg's or .dxf files of the current case, for measurments of stand-offs and such. ~ MAS On 7/3/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Send community mailing list submissions to community@lists.openmoko.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of community digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: Package manager (Lalo Martins) 2. Re: Package manager (Hans van der Merwe) 3. Custom case designs... (Tim Newsom) 4. Why iPhone using AJAX was genius (Florent THIERY) 5. Re: Custom case designs... (ramsesoriginal) 6. Re: Package manager (Lalo Martins) 7. Re: GPS can work stand-alone (Re: Advertising/hype) (David Pottage) 8. Re: Custom case designs... (Ben Burdette) 9. Re: Why iPhone using AJAX was genius (Attila Csipa) -- Forwarded message -- From: Lalo Martins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:53:59 + (UTC) Subject: Re: Package manager Also spracht Al Johnson (Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:23:56 +0100): I would have thought ipkg would make more sense as it's already used by most distros for handhelds, mainly because it has a smaller footprint than dpkg/apt or rpm/yum. I was going to say that. ipkg is already installed on the moko image, and comes pre-configured to download packages from the net (but the repository is still empty, of course). best, Lalo Martins -- So many of our dreams at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we summon the will, they soon become inevitable. - personal: http://lalo.hystericalraisins.net/ technical: http://www.hystericalraisins.net/ GNU: never give up freedom http://www.gnu.org/ -- Forwarded message -- From: Hans van der Merwe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: openmoko community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 16:33:04 +0200 Subject: Re: Package manager On Tue, 2007-07-03 at 13:53 +, Lalo Martins wrote: Also spracht Al Johnson (Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:23:56 +0100): I would have thought ipkg would make more sense as it's already used by most distros for handhelds, mainly because it has a smaller footprint than dpkg/apt or rpm/yum. I was going to say that. ipkg is already installed on the moko image, and comes pre-configured to download packages from the net (but the repository is still empty, of course). best, Lalo Martins Ah, great - just checking. E-Mail disclaimer: http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm -- Forwarded message -- From: Tim Newsom [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Openmoko community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 07:40:38 -0700 Subject: Custom case designs... I have been thinking a little more about this and I struck upon an idea... What if you could buy a custom case with a custom message on it. I am not talking about painted messages but letters and shapes cast into the plastic shell. Raised, sunk, custom fonts etc. Naturally we can't just replicate the exact neo1973 shell without permission, but maybe something like it and removing the FIC logo (unless we get permission to use it) or the like. This is more of a vanity thing than a functional thing.. But what do people think of it? --Tim -- Forwarded message -- From: Florent THIERY [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: OpenMoko community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 16:43:44 +0200 Subject: Why iPhone using AJAX was genius Quite self-explanatory: http://www.rev2.org/2007/07/02/top-25-web-apps-for-the-iphone/ I'm not saying we have to do the same, but if we manage complete compatibility... (which should be possible as soon as we have a functional gdk webkit port -- which is almost there). An interesting aspect for OpenMoko is to use this together (but sandboxed) with private server apps that offer http interfaces (ssh over http tunnel or wifi/bluetooth direct home connection) on an NSLU2/WL-500G like companion device. And we'll even stil have the possibility of traditional apps... What a short development time for so many features ! Cheers Florent -- Forwarded message -- From: ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 16:52:09 +0200 Subject: Re: Custom case designs... First they wil lthink that it's a
Re: Brainstorm: less functionality per device, more devices
If you want, say, phone, music and camera capabilities: - either you have plenty of pockets, then you buy a proper camera, a proper phone and a proper mp3 player - or you don't want to carry an extra 2kg in your pants, then you buy an all-in-one device; then compactness is a must. For many features, there's little value added by the ability to chain devices together: you might save extra screens, maybe RAM and CPU, but the space you gain is lost by connectivity gear, and the money you save on hardware is lost in harder testing, logistics (it's hard and expensive to handle stocks of plenty different modules worldwide), reliability (it's hard to make stuff communicate reliably when they aren't soldered o nthe same PCB). For most cases where chaining makes sense, bluetooth protocols already exist, and you don't even need to get every device from the same vendor. You don't want the reliability, bulkiness, availability and extra cost issues of a ZIF-like CPU socket or modular RAM sticks; if you want more Flash, microSD is your friend. etc. As for going clubbing without a GPS, that's the best way to get lost while trying to go there :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [France] Grouping orders,
Yup, I'd be glad to :) Cheers, FLorent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 8:59, no_use wrote: these are exactly the reactions i got from my friends.. specially as the mainbord seems rectangular, i wouldn't like to see it with this rounded top and bottom.. ..and all i want is 3G.. :( So add case design ideas to the wiki where previously noted. I guess we will see what's possible once we get them in our hands and all that. --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
Hi, On 7/3/07, Ben Burdette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Case modding for phones, cool. Maybe we should have like transparent (see-through) casing. Why do we need closed cases for open hardware and software? SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [France] Grouping orders,
-[ Tue, Jul 03, 2007 at 05:44:10PM +0200, Foucault de Bonneval ] If yes, does some of you living in Paris would like to share the shipping cost ? Yes Monsieur ! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Group purchase/shipping generally
Hello, before some days Hans van der Merwe asked, if it is possible to do group purchases (in South Africa). Unfortunately he got no answer, so I'd like to ask again. I'm from germany and I think there are many people here who like to buy a GTA01 device. If everyone orders a single device it are $20 to $40 for the shipment PLUS 19% VAT on the device INCLUDING the shipment. Let's assume you order a device for $300, shipment is expensive with $40 this are $340, plus VAT it are $405. Now let's assume there are 4 people who want to have a device, the package is still small enough for $40. So we pay ((($300*4)+$40)*1.19)/4 what makes $370 (+$5 for forwarding the packet inland). So everybody could save at least $30, maybe more if it would be possible to send bigger packets. It would be nice if someone at FIC (Sean? :) ) could tell us if it would be possible to take group orders and how many devices could be shipped at once. Knowing that would be great, because groups could plan the purchase before the 9th. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
Maybe we should have like transparent (see-through) casing. Ah, but transparent plastic is always more brittle than coloured plastics... I would hate my Neo cracking as easily as a CD case... On Tuesday 03 July 2007 11:35:57 Shakthi Kannan wrote: Hi, On 7/3/07, Ben Burdette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Case modding for phones, cool. Maybe we should have like transparent (see-through) casing. Why do we need closed cases for open hardware and software? SK -- Jeffrey Thomas Sierra Bravo 952.948.1211 x1046 952.567.6346 Direct www.sierra-bravo.com 9201 East Bloomington Freeway Suite CC Bloomington MN 55420 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [France] Grouping orders,
2007/7/3, cedric cellier [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -[ Tue, Jul 03, 2007 at 05:44:10PM +0200, Foucault de Bonneval ] If yes, does some of you living in Paris would like to share the shipping cost ? Yes Monsieur ! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
I've been designing cases for the homebrew mobile club, posting the design files on the wiki and producing them on a 3D printer. http://www.hbmobile.org/wiki/index.php?title=Portrait_oriented_case I can get these individually made for $40 or so each at http://www.techshop.ws a custom case for the FIC 1973 hardware would be smaller and cost less (its $10/cubic inch). The CAD software I used didn't really handle embossing text into the case very easily, and I think its better to use a laser cutter/etcher to write vector and raster patterns into the surface afterwards. The laser is 1200 dpi, and the 3D printer is more like 100dpi resolution. You can write anything you want onto just about anything solid that doesn't release toxic fumes with a 45W CO2 laser. (e.g. you can't write on foam and PVC releases Chlorine :-) It will etch metal, but can't cut through it. If FIC release mechanical design spec's for the internal dimensions it would be easier to wrap a case around it. Adrian On 7/3/07, Hans van der Merwe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2007-07-03 at 16:52 +0200, ramsesoriginal wrote: First they wil lthink that it's a rip-off of the iPod customisation. Then they will think that it's not useful, not functional, only thrown-away money. Then they will see how cool it looks at their buddy's neo, and will buy one for themselves ;) On 7/3/07, Tim Newsom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been thinking a little more about this and I struck upon an idea... What if you could buy a custom case with a custom message on it. I am not talking about painted messages but letters and shapes cast into the plastic shell. Raised, sunk, custom fonts etc. Naturally we can't just replicate the exact neo1973 shell without permission, but maybe something like it and removing the FIC logo (unless we get permission to use it) or the like. This is more of a vanity thing than a functional thing.. But what do people think of it? --Tim Some of the guys here at work (actually most of them) seem to hate the rounded sides/corners of the phone - any plans maybe on making it rectangular? ps. Im an engineer - I dont care what it looks like :) E-Mail disclaimer: http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 34, Issue 17
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 9:50, Michael Sersen wrote: About custom case design for the Neo and beyond; I am very interested in this idea. I have a cnc router at my disposal and can make custom parts from materials such as Corian and exotic hardwoods and some soft metals. I'd love to see some spec's, maybe .dwg's or .dxf files of the current case, for measurments of stand-offs and such. ~ MAS This makes 2 of us.. Are there others with similar equip? I was working on the idea that it may be possible to use custom plastic injection or some other forms of liquid plastics to build custom shells. In addition, it may also be possible (assuming someone wanted to pay for it ) to cast in stirling silver or various gold alloys (careful about scratches) etc.. Just some ideas anyway.. --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Come see OpenMoko at Ubuntu Live
Dear Community, Michael Shiloh has volunteered to setup a booth at Ubuntu Live (http://www.ubuntulive.com) July 22 to 24 in Portland, Oregon. He'll be demoing and talking about both the platform and the Neo. If you're in town, please stop by! Thanks so much for the help Michael! -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
There are several types of clear plastic which could be used to fulfill this idea.. Both as plastic injection and liquid casting material. --Tim On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 9:50, Shakthi Kannan wrote: Hi, On 7/3/07, Ben Burdette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Case modding for phones, cool. Maybe we should have like transparent (see-through) casing. Why do we need closed cases for open hardware and software? SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
That's not necessarily true.. Look at plastic bottles. Clear soda bottles are fairly strong and not nearly as brittle as some other clear plastics. Plus, that plastic is useful as injection material. Plus, if it were cheap enough to get new cases, most people would not care if they dropped or scratched one for a while as it would be easily replaced. --Tim On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 10:37, Jeffrey Thomas wrote: Maybe we should have like transparent (see-through) casing. Ah, but transparent plastic is always more brittle than coloured plastics... I would hate my Neo cracking as easily as a CD case... On Tuesday 03 July 2007 11:35:57 Shakthi Kannan wrote: Hi, On 7/3/07, Ben Burdette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Case modding for phones, cool. Maybe we should have like transparent (see-through) casing. Why do we need closed cases for open hardware and software? SK -- Jeffrey Thomas Sierra Bravo 952.948.1211 x1046 952.567.6346 Direct www.sierra-bravo.com 9201 East Bloomington Freeway Suite CC Bloomington MN 55420 --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
Clear soda bottles are fairly strong and not nearly as brittle as some other clear plastics. True enough, and i stand corrected. Their flexibility may even be a benefit -- i drop my current phone often enough and it survives; i would hope for something similar on my Neo when I get it. Maybe some of the extra space (and a flexible plastic) could help to cushion the device during impact from a fall. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Come see OpenMoko at Ubuntu Live
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 11:24, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Dear Community, Michael Shiloh has volunteered to setup a booth at Ubuntu Live (http://www.ubuntulive.com) July 22 to 24 in Portland, Oregon. He'll be demoing and talking about both the platform and the Neo. If you're in town, please stop by! Thanks so much for the help Michael! -Sean I am in portland so I will definitely stop by and take a look. I will try very hard not to drool all over the phone too. Lol. --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
Oh... but doesn't PETN have some issues with long-term durability when exposed to UV? On Jul 3, 2007, at 11:04 AM, Jeffrey Thomas wrote: Clear soda bottles are fairly strong and not nearly as brittle as some other clear plastics. True enough, and i stand corrected. Their flexibility may even be a benefit -- i drop my current phone often enough and it survives; i would hope for something similar on my Neo when I get it. Maybe some of the extra space (and a flexible plastic) could help to cushion the device during impact from a fall. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Come see OpenMoko at Ubuntu Live
On Wed, 4 Jul 2007, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Dear Community, Michael Shiloh has volunteered to setup a booth at Ubuntu Live (http://www.ubuntulive.com) July 22 to 24 in Portland, Oregon. He'll be demoing and talking about both the platform and the Neo. If you're in town, please stop by! Thanks so much for the help Michael! -Sean Thank YOU, Sean, for envisioning this project, for working so tirelessly to bring it to fruition, and for allowing us community members to participate so actively. I look forward to meeting all OpenMoko interested people who will be there. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Come see OpenMoko at Ubuntu Live
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007, Tim Newsom wrote: On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 11:24, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Dear Community, Michael Shiloh has volunteered to setup a booth at Ubuntu Live (http://www.ubuntulive.com) July 22 to 24 in Portland, Oregon. He'll be demoing and talking about both the platform and the Neo. If you're in town, please stop by! Thanks so much for the help Michael! -Sean I am in portland so I will definitely stop by and take a look. I will try very hard not to drool all over the phone too. Lol. --Tim Excellent! I look forward to meeting you. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Brainstorm: less functionality per device, more devices
Okay... this topic has been discussed to death, here and elsewhere. Let me recap by saying: a. A constellation of cooperating devices is bad because you have to make each device smart enough to talk to each other device, and know what it's supposed to do. And as Fabien points out, testing is a concern. b. The constellation approach is good because it allows the end user to use a best of breed approach for components that are important to them. But being a bit of a business geek on the weekends, there are also economic / product strategy reasons why the constellation is problematic. 1. The cost of a constellation that does (GSM + Nice Display + Camera) will likely be more than an integrated device that does the same thing. Why? because each of the three constellation devices will need separated batteries, bluetooth transceivers and enclosures. The integrated device will need only 1 case, 1 BT transceiver and 1 battery. 2. From a product strategy perspective, the best of breed approach of the constellation requires device manufacturers to open up an interface to their device to third party products. In fact, the constellation works best when there's a high-function, well defined interface between your module and third party modules. But this is a hard sell to product managers who would fear the product becoming a commodity. In other words, if you create a mobile GSM - Bluetooth gateway, you've got to create an interface to control it so your PDA with it's big screen can cause it to dial the phone. But once this interface starts to solidify, what's to prevent someone else from building a GSM to Blooteuth gateway and selling it for 10% less? 3. The product lifetime of the individual components will be longer. Handset manufacturers are currently rewarded for planned obsolescence. They book revenue whenever you buy something. So if they can get you to buy something every 12 months instead of every 18 months, they get more money. But you can also make economics work in your favor... 1. It's possible that the market for the individual constellation components would be larger than just the consumer cell phone market. For instance, there's a comparatively small, but not insignificant market for GSM modules in the telematics space. If you created a GSM to Bluetooth / USB gateway that could be used for consumer as well as industrial uses, it's conceivable that the increased production will drive the NRE / fixed cost per unit produced down to a point comparable to that of the integrated device. 2. There's an outside chance that a longer product life could be converted into higher revenue. From a product positioning perspective, you could argue that even thought the cost of the constellation will likely be greater than that of the integrated product, the customer is paying for a product that is future proof. That is, when one of the components is obsoleted, only that component must be replaced, so in the long run it's cheaper. 3. Also... related to point 2, let me just say three words: Extended Service Plan. w00t! 4. If your business is selling mobile devices, then an integrated product is probably the way to go. But if you're selling a product that lives higher up the food chain, like a consulting or a communication service, then the best of breed can be the right approach. -Cheers! -Matt H. On Jul 3, 2007, at 9:19 AM, Fabien wrote: If you want, say, phone, music and camera capabilities: - either you have plenty of pockets, then you buy a proper camera, a proper phone and a proper mp3 player - or you don't want to carry an extra 2kg in your pants, then you buy an all-in-one device; then compactness is a must. For many features, there's little value added by the ability to chain devices together: you might save extra screens, maybe RAM and CPU, but the space you gain is lost by connectivity gear, and the money you save on hardware is lost in harder testing, logistics (it's hard and expensive to handle stocks of plenty different modules worldwide), reliability (it's hard to make stuff communicate reliably when they aren't soldered o nthe same PCB). For most cases where chaining makes sense, bluetooth protocols already exist, and you don't even need to get every device from the same vendor. You don't want the reliability, bulkiness, availability and extra cost issues of a ZIF-like CPU socket or modular RAM sticks; if you want more Flash, microSD is your friend. etc. As for going clubbing without a GPS, that's the best way to get lost while trying to go there :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org
Re: Custom case designs...
I would be very interested in a tamper-proof case with separate branding. For phones given to low-wage employees and/or teenagers, this is a requirement (tamper proof meaning seals would have to be broken to open the case). Etching on the back of the case would include reward/delivery instructions for recovery of lost phones. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Annoying but inevitable
Hi, I don't think your idea is that bad at all, but it doesn't look like something that's possible. OpenMoko wants all software on the phone to be open-source, thus no ad-ware lock-in is possible. It's reversible. Plus, the phone won't be any cheaper because of this reversibility. But that's just my €0,01474 (wow, the exchange rate is nice these days). Greetz, Luit On 7/3/07, Vladimir Giszpenc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Given the power of Google and Madison Ave, it would seem that people are weak and cheap... How about a Minority Report type of advertising on the phone using the GPS data? This could even be payed based on proximity (bonus when the ad worked). This could be a way to get advertising dollars (euros, etc) to help reduce the price of the phone even more. My gut says that this idea is evil; my instinct tells me that getting big business behind our open phone could really help... Let the flames begin. I know I deserve it. Just remember that I meant well. (and I do know how the road to hell is paved). Thanks, Vlad ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
If you're exposing your phone to that much UV you'll probably have problems with other components before the case. PET transparent enough to UV that it's the bottle of choice for solar water disinfection. http://www.sodis.ch/Text2002/T-Howdoesitwork.htm On Tuesday 03 July 2007 19:48, Matthew S. Hamrick wrote: Oh... but doesn't PETN have some issues with long-term durability when exposed to UV? On Jul 3, 2007, at 11:04 AM, Jeffrey Thomas wrote: Clear soda bottles are fairly strong and not nearly as brittle as some other clear plastics. True enough, and i stand corrected. Their flexibility may even be a benefit -- i drop my current phone often enough and it survives; i would hope for something similar on my Neo when I get it. Maybe some of the extra space (and a flexible plastic) could help to cushion the device during impact from a fall. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko at OSCON?
Just to close this thread, here's the link to info about the spot that Mr. Bergstrom reserved: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2007/view/e_sess/14810 -- On 7/3/07, Uncle Kridley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Spots are already filling up fast: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/58/bof.html so someone fill it out soon if they would like to see one. I'm on it... -- -- Dirk Bergstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://otisbean.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs... (the business perspective)
Also.. to follow up on what Adrian recently said.. The tech shop also has a CNC milling machine. I'm no expert, but I believe that the idea is that you put a CAD file in one side and take out a completed part out the other. So... if you have the CAD files for a case, you could feed them into the CNC milling machine instead of the 3D printer and viola! aluminum case. Jim Newton at the TechShop also mentioned he's looking into getting an injection molding machine. I've seen a couple of these sorta 1 shot injection molders. You use the CNC machine to create your mold, then you pour plastic pellets in the top, press a button and an electric motor turns the screw that forces the semi-molten pellets into the mold. So.. you could have any number of different cases made for your Neo. My back of the envelope calculations for the cost are: Fixed Costs: Mold Design Time5h $0 Mold Milling Time 3h $75 Variable Costs: (per production run) Mold setup 1h $10 Variable Costs: (per case) Plastic Pellets (1/10)h $3 So assuming a CAD file for the NEO case were to magically fall out of the sky, perhaps as part of a program to seed a third party ecosystem (*hint*hint* Sean, are you going to be in the bay area soon? *wink*wink*) The cost per case for a production run of 10 and 100 identical cases would be: 10 cases: 9h, $115 100 cases: 18h, $385 Let's say that I'm terribly impressed with myself and I want to pay myself $65 / hr. for my time, the price goes up to: 10 cases: $700 100 cases: $1555 But I'm not going to sell them myself. I'd rather sell them through SparkFun or even GumStix.com (but I don't know if either of these guys would be interested.) So, I'm going to add a little bit of margin. This is a risky business, so I'm adding 35%. 10 cases: $945 100 cases: $2100 Nathan and/or Gordon are going to want a margin as well, but I'm thinking I'm going to offer them a low-risk proposition: just put the SKU on your website and I'll handle the fulfillment. So I'm going to argue them down to 7% margin. So in other words, I'm going to pay them a commission for every case they sell. That fee would be: 10 cases: $65 100 cases: $147 We're not talking about a lot of coin, here. From a business perspective, the reward of $147 for selling 100 isn't that great. It's probably not going to pay for Nathan or Gordon's time to setup the SKU in their system. But there's always eBay... Let's say sales taxes are an additional 8.5%: 10 cases: $86 100 cases: $191 Shipping and handling: 10 cases: $90 100 cases: $900 End Price: 10 cases: $1186 ( $118.60 per case ) 100 cases: $3338 ( $33.38 per case ) So... the question is... a) is it possible to convince Nathan or Gordon to sell these things through their websites for $65 - $147? b) is there actually a demand for 10 or 100 of these after-market cases? c) is there a one size fits all design that will satisfy everyone who wants an after-market case? So, I'm not saying I want to get into the business of making after- market Neo cases, but someone who was thinking about getting into this market would do an analysis just like this. So... if there was a solid demand for 100 cases, it's possible the price could be brought down to about $35-$40. On Jul 3, 2007, at 10:18 AM, Frederic Kettelhoit wrote: 2 points: 1.) Aluminium would be quite cool. I would like to have such a case, too. But the problem is, that the gsm radiowaves are not able to pass the aluminium. Probably that's the same with the GPS and the W-LAN? I don't know. There is mobile phone made by Porsche and - I think - Sagem. It is basically made out of aluminium, but the GSM Processor is mantled with plastic. Quite difficult, but very cool IMHO. Does anyone know, whether there is the possibility to make a case 100% aluminium without making the GSM processor useless? Would be great. 2.) The rounded corners are not very pretty, that is right. In my opinion a phone has to look quite good, it is a lifestyle item. A few people may like the design, but the great majority of people I asked said that they hate these corners (me too). I would buy an ugly but open phone, but many won't. So it would be really really great, if there would be the possibility to change the case. I will try to do it, too, but I am not very familiar with case modding and mobile phone cases in general. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Come see OpenMoko at Ubuntu Live
You're going to be in the exhibit hall, right? So we can come for free? -Brad On 7/3/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 3 Jul 2007, Tim Newsom wrote: On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 11:24, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Dear Community, Michael Shiloh has volunteered to setup a booth at Ubuntu Live (http://www.ubuntulive.com) July 22 to 24 in Portland, Oregon. He'll be demoing and talking about both the platform and the Neo. If you're in town, please stop by! Thanks so much for the help Michael! -Sean I am in portland so I will definitely stop by and take a look. I will try very hard not to drool all over the phone too. Lol. --Tim Excellent! I look forward to meeting you. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
Yup. And as Tim points out, if the case only lasts a year, recycle it and get a new one. On Jul 3, 2007, at 12:35 PM, Al Johnson wrote: If you're exposing your phone to that much UV you'll probably have problems with other components before the case. PET transparent enough to UV that it's the bottle of choice for solar water disinfection. http://www.sodis.ch/Text2002/T-Howdoesitwork.htm On Tuesday 03 July 2007 19:48, Matthew S. Hamrick wrote: Oh... but doesn't PETN have some issues with long-term durability when exposed to UV? On Jul 3, 2007, at 11:04 AM, Jeffrey Thomas wrote: Clear soda bottles are fairly strong and not nearly as brittle as some other clear plastics. True enough, and i stand corrected. Their flexibility may even be a benefit -- i drop my current phone often enough and it survives; i would hope for something similar on my Neo when I get it. Maybe some of the extra space (and a flexible plastic) could help to cushion the device during impact from a fall. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs... (the dot-org perspective)
But there's another way to think about this... I think if you ran these numbers past a business person in the states they would have all sorts of problems. You're talking about a fair amount of investment for not all that much return. I mean if we knew the Neo was going to sell as many units as the RAZR and the iPhone combined, you would be talking about thousands or tens of thousands of units and it would be easier to make the argument solely on business terms. But... the great thing about the TechShop is users can get their hands dirty building all sorts of fun stuff. So maybe this is more of a project for a user-group instead of a business. If there's anyone out there interested in learning about injection molding, this would be a great project to start with. Jim over at the TechShop is talking about buying an injection molder sometime this summer, so they'll have all the parts needed for a low-volume run soon. In the mean time, interested persons could use the 3D printer to print out new cases for their Neos. I don't know that I would have the time to participate in such an operation, but I suspect that somewhere in the bay area there are enough interested designers / makers that sharing the cost and effort would bring the costs down to something pretty reasonable. Oh... and it would also be easy to laser etch designs on the newly created plastic cases. -Cheers -Matt H. On Jul 3, 2007, at 12:31 PM, Matthew S. Hamrick wrote: Also.. to follow up on what Adrian recently said.. The tech shop also has a CNC milling machine. I'm no expert, but I believe that the idea is that you put a CAD file in one side and take out a completed part out the other. So... if you have the CAD files for a case, you could feed them into the CNC milling machine instead of the 3D printer and viola! aluminum case. Jim Newton at the TechShop also mentioned he's looking into getting an injection molding machine. I've seen a couple of these sorta 1 shot injection molders. You use the CNC machine to create your mold, then you pour plastic pellets in the top, press a button and an electric motor turns the screw that forces the semi-molten pellets into the mold. So.. you could have any number of different cases made for your Neo. My back of the envelope calculations for the cost are: Fixed Costs: Mold Design Time5h $0 Mold Milling Time 3h $75 Variable Costs: (per production run) Mold setup 1h $10 Variable Costs: (per case) Plastic Pellets (1/10)h $3 So assuming a CAD file for the NEO case were to magically fall out of the sky, perhaps as part of a program to seed a third party ecosystem (*hint*hint* Sean, are you going to be in the bay area soon? *wink*wink*) The cost per case for a production run of 10 and 100 identical cases would be: 10 cases: 9h, $115 100 cases: 18h, $385 Let's say that I'm terribly impressed with myself and I want to pay myself $65 / hr. for my time, the price goes up to: 10 cases: $700 100 cases: $1555 But I'm not going to sell them myself. I'd rather sell them through SparkFun or even GumStix.com (but I don't know if either of these guys would be interested.) So, I'm going to add a little bit of margin. This is a risky business, so I'm adding 35%. 10 cases: $945 100 cases: $2100 Nathan and/or Gordon are going to want a margin as well, but I'm thinking I'm going to offer them a low-risk proposition: just put the SKU on your website and I'll handle the fulfillment. So I'm going to argue them down to 7% margin. So in other words, I'm going to pay them a commission for every case they sell. That fee would be: 10 cases: $65 100 cases: $147 We're not talking about a lot of coin, here. From a business perspective, the reward of $147 for selling 100 isn't that great. It's probably not going to pay for Nathan or Gordon's time to setup the SKU in their system. But there's always eBay... Let's say sales taxes are an additional 8.5%: 10 cases: $86 100 cases: $191 Shipping and handling: 10 cases: $90 100 cases: $900 End Price: 10 cases: $1186 ( $118.60 per case ) 100 cases: $3338 ( $33.38 per case ) So... the question is... a) is it possible to convince Nathan or Gordon to sell these things through their websites for $65 - $147? b) is there actually a demand for 10 or 100 of these after-market cases? c) is there a one size fits all design that will satisfy everyone who wants an after-market case? So, I'm not saying I want to get into the business of making after- market Neo cases, but someone who was thinking about getting into this market would do an analysis just like this. So... if there was a solid demand for 100 cases, it's possible the price could be brought down to about $35-$40. On Jul 3, 2007, at 10:18 AM, Frederic Kettelhoit wrote: 2 points: 1.) Aluminium
Re: Custom case designs... (the business perspective)
So... the question is... a) is it possible to convince Nathan or Gordon to sell these things through their websites for $65 - $147? I can sell it through my website: http://www.handheld-linux.com although I currently focus on the European markets only (due to tax and duty complexity). b) is there actually a demand for 10 or 100 of these after-market cases? Depends on the number of total units of the OpenMoko being sold. I would assume 1% after sales as a first rough guess. c) is there a one size fits all design that will satisfy everyone who wants an after-market case? Probably not. I remember that we did have approx. 50 - 100 different custom designs at Siemens mobile phones. Nikolaus Schaller The Handheld-Linux Shop http://www.handheld-linux.com operated by Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching http://www.goldelico.com Make the customer come back and not the product ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Come see OpenMoko at Ubuntu Live
Yes, we are at booth #30, and the exhibit hall is free. Note online registration closes July 21, 2007, after which you may have to pay. According to the conference website, The onsite registration fee is an additional $100 to the Standard Price. I'm not clear whether this includes the exhibit hall, but I suggest that anyone remotely interested register before July 21, just in case. Hey! I just noticed that we are listed on the conference homepage! http://www.ubuntulive.com/ Hopefully this will increase awareness and interest. Michael On Tue, 3 Jul 2007, Brad Pitcher wrote: You're going to be in the exhibit hall, right? So we can come for free? -Brad On 7/3/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 3 Jul 2007, Tim Newsom wrote: On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 11:24, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Dear Community, Michael Shiloh has volunteered to setup a booth at Ubuntu Live (http://www.ubuntulive.com) July 22 to 24 in Portland, Oregon. He'll be demoing and talking about both the platform and the Neo. If you're in town, please stop by! Thanks so much for the help Michael! -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Come see OpenMoko at Ubuntu Live
On 7/3/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey! I just noticed that we are listed on the conference homepage! http://www.ubuntulive.com/ Hopefully this will increase awareness and interest. That probably means that FIC / OpenMoko paid Canonical / Ubuntu a bunch of money -- evidently matching the contributions of the likes of Intel, Dell, and Sun. Way to go! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Brainstorm: less functionality per device, more devices
A company called bugLabs is working on this concept. http://www.buglabs.net/ They have not publicly announced the details of their product, but the idea of modular (probably open source) pocket consumer electronics seems to be their focus. Hank On 7/3/07, Jonas Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just recently got my first bluetooth headset. This is only relevant because it got me thinking. The typical cell phone (including the Neo) is built upon the idea of putting as much functionality as possible into one device. And manufacturers have gotten very good at this. What if one took the UNIX approach to hardware development. Instead of monolithic do-everything devices, create many single purpose devices that do their jobs very well, and can be chained together. This approach has some advantages: 1) Easier (and cheaper) to upgrade. Need more processing power? Add another or a smarter cpu pebble. Need gps? Add a gps pebble. Need storage, add a storage pebble. Need a camera, add a camera earring or watch or ring. 2) Cheaper initial investment. A basic phone could be a headset, a gsm transmitter, and little tablet UI device. 3 (or maybe you stick the gsm transmitter in the ui, so 2) little cheap devices that can be sold for tens, rather than hundreds of dollars. However, as a consumer desires more functionality, they buy more devices. 3) Carry only the functionality you need. Are you going clubbing? Probably won't need that gps unit, or the media player. Heading out to the woods? Ditch the second cpu, but grab an extra battery. 4) Interoperability. By opening the standard up to many manufacturers, a more robust ecosystem is created, and the entire platform improves. Disadvantages: 1) More items to lose. Perhaps they could snap together, like legos, or be carried in some sort of bag all together? 2) Intra device bandwidth is at a premium. Bluetooth 3.0 is probably necessary if you want to keep your storage in a separate device from your cpu or your ui. This in turn creates extra demands on batteries. Again, perhaps a standard snap together interface can carry power and data. 3) Potential incompatibilities. Different devices might not speak the same protocol, even if they are supposed to. This can be disastrous when your cpu is not from the same company as your storage. 4) Potential security risks. Running all that data over the air means it is easier to read it, in the event that your encryption fails. And since encryption is likely to be run off a chip, rather than a more general purpose cpu, security holes are more difficult to fix. 5) Harder to write the software. Obviously, this makes your OS about 1000% more complicated. Anyway, it seems like it COULD be an interesting sort of thing to try. Jonas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
t-shirts in the US
What's the status on the availability of openmoko t-shirts in the US? I checked on cafepress and spreadshirt.com and I couldn't find anything. I'd really like one of those shirts to wear at Ubuntu Live/OSCON. Thanks, Brad ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs... (the business perspective)
Is it legal to sell these cases? The design may be based in no small part on work done by FIC, who will not be impressed by us stamping on their IP. We don't want to take the piss - they are helping us a lot. Making a few one-offs for ourselves, with no profit is ok, but as soon as we start marketing them, things may change. When he's not so busy, this would be one for sean to enquire about. On 7/4/07, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So... the question is... a) is it possible to convince Nathan or Gordon to sell these things through their websites for $65 - $147? I can sell it through my website: http://www.handheld-linux.com although I currently focus on the European markets only (due to tax and duty complexity). b) is there actually a demand for 10 or 100 of these after-market cases? Depends on the number of total units of the OpenMoko being sold. I would assume 1% after sales as a first rough guess. c) is there a one size fits all design that will satisfy everyone who wants an after-market case? Probably not. I remember that we did have approx. 50 - 100 different custom designs at Siemens mobile phones. Nikolaus Schaller The Handheld-Linux Shop http://www.handheld-linux.com operated by Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching http://www.goldelico.com Make the customer come back and not the product ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Come see OpenMoko at Ubuntu Live
On 7/3/07, Ryan Prior [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/3/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey! I just noticed that we are listed on the conference homepage! http://www.ubuntulive.com/ Hopefully this will increase awareness and interest. That probably means that FIC / OpenMoko paid Canonical / Ubuntu a bunch of money -- evidently matching the contributions of the likes of Intel, Dell, and Sun. Way to go! Update: I found out that FIC/OpenMoko must have paid at least $15,000 for their Gold Sponsorship position. It gives them privileges including their booth, 4 session passes, a 45-minute speaking opportunity, and a half-page color ad in the program guide. Since they'll be in the exhibit hall, I might try to fly out. Hope to see you guys there! Source: http://www.ubuntulive.com/ubuntu/prospectus.pdf -- It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. - Krishnamurti ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs... (the business perspective)
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:56, Matthew S. Hamrick wrote: Also.. to follow up on what Adrian recently said.. The tech shop also has a CNC milling machine. I'm no expert, but I believe that the idea is that you put a CAD file in one side and take out a completed part out the other. So... if you have the CAD files for a case, you could feed them into the CNC milling machine instead of the 3D printer and viola! aluminum case. Jim Newton at the TechShop also mentioned he's looking into getting an injection molding machine. I've seen a couple of these sorta 1 shot injection molders. You use the CNC machine to create your mold, then you pour plastic pellets in the top, press a button and an electric motor turns the screw that forces the semi-molten pellets into the mold. So.. you could have any number of different cases made for your Neo. My back of the envelope calculations for the cost are: Fixed Costs: Mold Design Time5h $0 Mold Milling Time 3h $75 Variable Costs: (per production run) Mold setup 1h $10 Variable Costs: (per case) Plastic Pellets (1/10)h $3 So assuming a CAD file for the NEO case were to magically fall out of the sky, perhaps as part of a program to seed a third party ecosystem (*hint*hint* Sean, are you going to be in the bay area soon? *wink*wink*) The cost per case for a production run of 10 and 100 identical cases would be: 10 cases: 9h, $115 100 cases: 18h, $385 Let's say that I'm terribly impressed with myself and I want to pay myself $65 / hr. for my time, the price goes up to: 10 cases: $700 100 cases: $1555 But I'm not going to sell them myself. I'd rather sell them through SparkFun or even GumStix.com (but I don't know if either of these guys would be interested.) So, I'm going to add a little bit of margin. This is a risky business, so I'm adding 35%. 10 cases: $945 100 cases: $2100 Nathan and/or Gordon are going to want a margin as well, but I'm thinking I'm going to offer them a low-risk proposition: just put the SKU on your website and I'll handle the fulfillment. So I'm going to argue them down to 7% margin. So in other words, I'm going to pay them a commission for every case they sell. That fee would be: 10 cases: $65 100 cases: $147 We're not talking about a lot of coin, here. From a business perspective, the reward of $147 for selling 100 isn't that great. It's probably not going to pay for Nathan or Gordon's time to setup the SKU in their system. But there's always eBay... Let's say sales taxes are an additional 8.5%: 10 cases: $86 100 cases: $191 Shipping and handling: 10 cases: $90 100 cases: $900 End Price: 10 cases: $1186 ( $118.60 per case ) 100 cases: $3338 ( $33.38 per case ) So... the question is... a) is it possible to convince Nathan or Gordon to sell these things through their websites for $65 - $147? b) is there actually a demand for 10 or 100 of these after-market cases? c) is there a one size fits all design that will satisfy everyone who wants an after-market case? So, I'm not saying I want to get into the business of making after- market Neo cases, but someone who was thinking about getting into this market would do an analysis just like this. So... if there was a solid demand for 100 cases, it's possible the price could be brought down to about $35-$40. This is definitely an interesting analysis of a set of costs associated with this kind of business. I think the costs could be a bit cheaper for the end user depending on material and costs to build the molds. But then again, I have not actually sat down and worked it out yet. /grin I do think there is a market here though.. --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS can work stand-alone (Re: Advertising/hype)
On 7/3/07, Urivan Saaib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I noticed the freebase.com website requires invitation, do you have access to it? Also, the license of the service is free for non-commercial only, do you have any considerations in this topic? How will this affect the adoption of new developments? I have an invite. When it goes beta, accounts won't be required for read-only access, and when it goes release, accounts will be free for the taking. My undestanding RE: use is that all the content is Creative Commons licensed, so it shouldn't be an issue. Also, custom metadata repositories and replication (commercial services) do not seem feasible with freebase.com. What do you mean? I was thinking of this as a sort of mobile, location-based wikipedia. -Nick Johnson ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS can work stand-alone (Re: Advertising/hype)
On 7/4/07, Niels L. Ellegaard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That sounds like great fun. Do you plan to introduce a central server and use a critical radius of a kilometer, or do you want to use wifi. I guess that wifi requires a fairly large userbase. Is it possible to design a system that worked with a central server without having the users reveal their position and identity all the time? I think a central server would be neccessary. Wifi has limited range, and doing ad-hoc networks is complicated. Bluetooth's range is even more limited. The privacy implications of constantly uploading your real-time position to a central server are formidable, though. -Nick Johnson ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Package manager
Calendar and contact sync will be by SyncML so we don't need to write desktop apps for sync. The phone appears as a USB network device among other things, so should be able to use the computer's network connection if everything's configured correctly. There might be a case for a helper app to do this I suppose. Likewise there may be a case for a friendly package selection mechanism on a big screen, but it should also be managable without. On Tuesday 03 July 2007 13:50, Mark Rossman wrote: I think we should also consider a phone manager for the desktop (linux and windows). which will allow people to connect to their phone and install packages along with calendar and address book sync(with Thunderbird). While connected the phone could also use the computer for internet connection and bring up a confirmation dialog for all packages to install. On 7/3/07, Al Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would have thought ipkg would make more sense as it's already used by most distros for handhelds, mainly because it has a smaller footprint than dpkg/apt or rpm/yum. There are several GUI frontends to this, but GPE-Package is probably a good starting point as it uses GTK+ already. http://gpe.handhelds.org/projects/gpe-package.shtml On Tuesday 03 July 2007 11:49, Urivan Saaib wrote: Hans, Debian ? Ubuntu? Click N Run? :) That of course is a 'commercial' venue. Other than that, I guess an apt-get/yum repository can make it. Regards, -Urivan Flores-Saaib ==Original message text=== On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:37:14 +0100 Hans van der Merwe wrote: Is there a project (or plans for one) to simplify adding and removing apps to the Moko? Users will want to download and install apps - from official repos (and obviously 3rd party) E-Mail disclaimer: http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ===End of original message text=== ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: t-shirts in the US
Hi, On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:46:23 -0700 Brad Pitcher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the status on the availability of openmoko t-shirts in the US? I checked on cafepress and spreadshirt.com and I couldn't find anything. I'd really like one of those shirts to wear at Ubuntu Live/OSCON. Thanks, Brad right, I said I'd open up a shop in the US, too. I'll create an account tomorrow and start copying the designs from my spreadshirt.net account. Is there any particular reason to take one or the other (cafepress/spreadshirt)? Regards, Daniel Willmann signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs... (the business perspective)
Note... I did ask about permission and we were told to wait on discussing with official personel till phase 2 of the phone. So scanning the actual case and building a knockoff would (in my opinion and until I am corrected by FIC / Sean or other person with some authority) be a violation of their IP. However, it is hardly a violation of their IP to build new designs from our own imagination and make them open / sell them by our own means. I just can't see how we could possibly be upsetting them by adding accessories for their devices which will in some way improve customer experience or at the very least satisfy some vanity impulse. --Tim On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:32, Robin Paulson wrote: Is it legal to sell these cases? The design may be based in no small part on work done by FIC, who will not be impressed by us stamping on their IP. We don't want to take the piss - they are helping us a lot. Making a few one-offs for ourselves, with no profit is ok, but as soon as we start marketing them, things may change. When he's not so busy, this would be one for sean to enquire about. On 7/4/07, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So... the question is... a) is it possible to convince Nathan or Gordon to sell these things through their websites for $65 - $147? I can sell it through my website: http://www.handheld-linux.com although I currently focus on the European markets only (due to tax and duty complexity). b) is there actually a demand for 10 or 100 of these after-market cases? Depends on the number of total units of the OpenMoko being sold. I would assume 1% after sales as a first rough guess. c) is there a one size fits all design that will satisfy everyone who wants an after-market case? Probably not. I remember that we did have approx. 50 - 100 different custom designs at Siemens mobile phones. Nikolaus Schaller The Handheld-Linux Shop http://www.handheld-linux.com operated by Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching http://www.goldelico.com Make the customer come back and not the product ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Come see OpenMoko at Ubuntu Live
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007, Ryan Prior wrote: On 7/3/07, Ryan Prior [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/3/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey! I just noticed that we are listed on the conference homepage! http://www.ubuntulive.com/ Hopefully this will increase awareness and interest. That probably means that FIC / OpenMoko paid Canonical / Ubuntu a bunch of money -- evidently matching the contributions of the likes of Intel, Dell, and Sun. Way to go! Update: I found out that FIC/OpenMoko must have paid at least $15,000 for their Gold Sponsorship position. It gives them privileges including their booth, 4 session passes, a 45-minute speaking opportunity, and a half-page color ad in the program guide. Since they'll be in the exhibit hall, I might try to fly out. Hope to see you guys there! Source: http://www.ubuntulive.com/ubuntu/prospectus.pdf OpenMoko was offered a custom Sponsorship which includes a booth but not a speaking opportunity. However, we are free to organize a BoF. I presume there is interest in such? If so, I'll go ahead and schedule one. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GPS trail - crazy idea
Hi all, I was wondering of any of the Gtk gurus hanging out here could do me a little favour. I have this idea that's haunting me in my sleep, but I don't have the time to implement it. It should be really easy to do, though. The idea is to have a GPS tracker/mapper that uses a very simple GUI with very rapid (finger) interaction to find one's way around some place. There are no maps. The context is provided by past movements and/or external information sources, combined by the user's brain. Brief description: http://people.openmoko.org/werner/trail.txt GUI mockup (for 640x480): http://people.openmoko.org/werner/trail.ps The current location interface should probably be generic, e.g., reading x-meters, y-meters, seconds messages from a Unix domain socket. We can then feed it with fake test data and/or slap on a converter from NMEA. I know there are similar programs around, but I don't think they pursue this light-weight and real-time approach quite to the same extent. Anyone feeling like giving it a try ? - Werner -- _ / Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL PROTECTED] / /_http://www.almesberger.net// ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS trail - crazy idea
On 7/4/07, Werner Almesberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current location interface should probably be generic, e.g., reading x-meters, y-meters, seconds messages from a Unix domain socket. We can then feed it with fake test data and/or slap on a converter from NMEA. Why not just use NMEA sentences directly? They're simple to read, and more versatile. -Nick Johnson ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS trail - crazy idea
Nick Johnson wrote: Why not just use NMEA sentences directly? They're simple to read, and more versatile. Sure. Just wanted to skip the math and modularize the thing. - Werner -- _ / Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL PROTECTED] / /_http://www.almesberger.net// ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Group purchase/shipping generally
yea that would be great, then we can have a section on the wiki where there would be alot of countries and the people in each country can then discuss about the dates and make an agreement On 7/3/07, Thomas Gstädtner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, before some days Hans van der Merwe asked, if it is possible to do group purchases (in South Africa). Unfortunately he got no answer, so I'd like to ask again. I'm from germany and I think there are many people here who like to buy a GTA01 device. If everyone orders a single device it are $20 to $40 for the shipment PLUS 19% VAT on the device INCLUDING the shipment. Let's assume you order a device for $300, shipment is expensive with $40 this are $340, plus VAT it are $405. Now let's assume there are 4 people who want to have a device, the package is still small enough for $40. So we pay ((($300*4)+$40)*1.19)/4 what makes $370 (+$5 for forwarding the packet inland). So everybody could save at least $30, maybe more if it would be possible to send bigger packets. It would be nice if someone at FIC (Sean? :) ) could tell us if it would be possible to take group orders and how many devices could be shipped at once. Knowing that would be great, because groups could plan the purchase before the 9th. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Come see OpenMoko at Ubuntu Live
On 7/3/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OpenMoko was offered a custom Sponsorship which includes a booth but not a speaking opportunity. However, we are free to organize a BoF. I presume there is interest in such? If so, I'll go ahead and schedule one. I'll go ahead and throw in a Yes, but mine isn't worth much since I haven't actually made solid plans to be there yet! Thanks for putting the effort forth to network with Ubuntu users -- I'm definitely interested in building packages for Ubuntu and OpenMoko that enable seamless sync and integration features! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why iPhone using AJAX was genius
On Tuesday 03 July 2007 17:03:13 Attila Csipa wrote: Neo1973, like, without case/microSD/power adapter/battery/etc (possibly even without display), just the finished PCB with components ? I think Sean is actively working towards that goal. At least he seemed to like that idea very much. Might even go as far as upgrade mainboards for GTA01-GTA02 if we're lucky. pgp1pcdhDoEF1.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
