Re: Tutorials, HowTo's, etc
On 7/10/07, ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. I really love this project, but since (as most of us here, i imagine) i'm only a simple student, i can't afford to buy two Neos. So i will wait 'til october. But I would like to have some possibility to develope something in the meantime. Since this is all open source, i imagined to find thousands of tutorials, howtos, step-by-step-descriptions, and so on. But the only thing i found is a look at gtk-sort of thing. Not onyl there aren't any Developer tutorials (on how to create something), but even there aren't any descriptions of how to use what's inside the phone right now. If somebody has any help on how to start programming some (simple) apps for the OpenMoko, without having a FIC at my disposal, i would be pleased to let my creativity flow. p.s. maybe i could also write some tutorials, or translate existing ones.. but i must have THE KNOWLEDGE to do so. best regards, Stefan Insam p.p.s. Sorry for my bad english.. I'm not a native speaker. -- My corner of the web: http://ramsesoriginal.wordpress.com My dream, my world: http://abenu.wordpress.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Hi Ramses, Well, it's perfectly possible to develop applications without having a Neo at your disposal. Since all libraries are based on glib/gtk (see http://www.gtk.org), which also serves as the underlying libraries for GNOME, you can indeed start with learning GTK, possibly using a python or perl interface if you want to get going quickly. Once you're a bit familiar with this you can build the openmoko base system (see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile) and 'emulate' it all with http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xephyr or http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo If you want to do more then simple GTK apps, I suggest you start looking into the code of the Neo using svn. It's open ... Regards, Marc ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [France] Grouping orders,
If you already ordered your unit, then I suppose it will be sent separately. If you want to cancel it and if cancelation is not possible, you can concider to resell it once you have your hands on it. Also, for group shipping, Im only interrested in people that can fetch their unit in Paris, and not merely somewhere in France, because I don't feel like handling shipment by mail. Please tell us if and how your comment about a France group shipping was taken into acount by openmoko.com. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Group purchase/shipping generally
Well, after the shop went online we have seen the pricing - and even if we couldn't organize a group purchase (to germany in my cause) before, it was possible to find two other early adopters who ordered with me (or me with them) 1 hour after the shops opening. ;) Shipping is not cheap, but with 3 or more deviecs per order it's ok. Hope the do not want VAT for the devices as they are marked as non-working prototypes, but however, we will stay at under 300 EUR, what is ok for a smartphone. Just for interest: are the first 1000 devices already sold? Looking forward to have the neo in my hands (guess I am definately under the first 500), Thomas Gstädtner P.S. I wish you, OpenMoko and FIC much luck and hope the Neo will get as popular as I guess. Thanks for giving the linux community and me what we want for years! 2007/7/10, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Jul 4, 2007, at 12:52 AM, Thomas Gstädtner wrote: before some days Hans van der Merwe asked, if it is possible to do group purchases (in South Africa). Unfortunately he got no answer, so I'd like to ask again. We can ship anywhere that UPS can ship now ;-) I'm from germany and I think there are many people here who like to buy a GTA01 device. If everyone orders a single device it are $20 to $40 for the shipment PLUS 19% VAT on the device INCLUDING the shipment. Let's assume you order a device for $300, shipment is expensive with $40 this are $340, plus VAT it are $405. Now let's assume there are 4 people who want to have a device, the package is still small enough for $40. So we pay ((($300*4)+$40)*1.19)/4 what makes $370 (+$5 for forwarding the packet inland). So everybody could save at least $30, maybe more if it would be possible to send bigger packets. I know shipping is a bit pricey now. But we just don't have our global distribution setup yet. We're working on this, but it won't be in place before our mass market launch in Oct. Sorry for any troubles this might cause. We just don't have the bandwidth to do this now. It would be nice if someone at FIC (Sean? :) ) could tell us if it would be possible to take group orders and how many devices could be shipped at once. Knowing that would be great, because groups could plan the purchase before the 9th. You can order a max of 11 devices at a time. Let us know (by email) if you need to order more and we can talk about this case-by-case. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: List problems, receiving multiple identical copies of each message
On Thursday 12 July 2007, ground control picked up the following transmission from Jason Elwell: Ulrik, No you are not the only one. Other members of the list have fingered Gmail as the source of the problem. It seems that any mail coming from that domain is getting duplicated. Not quite. My messages from starband.net are also duplicated. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Get them while they're still hot!
On 7/9/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Community! Today is the day that we've all been waiting for: We can finally take your order for the world's first freed phone. Can we get some more detail on the shipping insurance please? Ben ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Tutorials, HowTo's, etc
On Tuesday 10 July 2007 09:20:39 ramsesoriginal wrote: Hi. I really love this project, but since (as most of us here, i imagine) i'm only a simple student, i can't afford to buy two Neos. So i will wait 'til october. But I would like to have some possibility to develope something in the meantime. Since this is all open source, i imagined to find thousands of tutorials, howtos, step-by-step-descriptions, and so on. Start here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile, you can test it in qemu after compiling it. pgpFDePaoC3TS.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Get them while they're still hot!
Hey, Today is the day that we've all been waiting for: We can finally take your order for the world's first freed phone. Very sweet! I can't wait to get one! Neos are waiting in customs just outside our factory in SuZhou. Early this week, they will start their journey to FIC America in Fremont, California. We're sending them by air so they should arrive really fast. (We'll update you as soon as we know more tracking information.) Just one small question: Will there be any shipping from within the EU any time soon? Around $70 shipping cost is almost one third of the price and I bet there will be annoyances with customs. Cheers, Christian ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Openmoko List Problems
From the list archives on the web: List mail not being delivered Marco Barreno barreno at cs.berkeley.edu Wed Jul 11 18:43:11 CEST 2007 * Previous message: Charging the NEO1973 * Next message: Not a singe mail received from community list server since 2007.0710-08:08 UTC * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] I haven't received any email from these mailing lists since around 10:00 CEST on July 10. The web archives, however, show several messages since that time. Could there be a problem with the list server? I checked my list subscriptions, which seem to all be correct (mail enabled, digest off, etc.). I also tried signing up two other email accounts I have at a different domains, to see if it was a problem with my ISP, but the subscription confirmation emails never arrived. Is anyone getting list mail delivered? Is there a known problem with the list server? (Please send replies directly to me in addition to the mailing lists, for obvious reasons!) Thanks, Marco All is Very quiet the last few days Clayton Jones drcjjones at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 01:01:05 CEST 2007 * Previous message: OpenMoko BoF session at Ubuntu Live * Next message: Openmoko ads on youtube * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Ever since I signed up to the OpenMoko lists, i've gotten several emails everyday However, the last 2 days i've received nothing at all Is this a gmail problem or is something bad happening with the OpenMoko group and FIC? Also wondering how the ordering and shipping is going - stilll haven't gotten any confirmation of order processing from my order on Monday morning... --clayton I see I'm not the only one wondering what happened to the list. Last message I got was Re: Shipping costs - On Tue, 2007-07-10 at 19:28 +1000, Ben wrote: Similar with devel. Something is broken. Phil ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
The Openmoko Vo-IP network
Now that we have a great phone to use, we could use a great channel for communication. The vision is to communicate using the most open channel of communication ( the Internet) using VoIP technology for routing all mobile phone calls. Openmoko application framework can be used to create a skype-like client running on openmoko. A wireless router (openmoko) can provide the mobility, which are connected to each other using the Internet. The hotspot can be serviced by WiMAX or WiFi technology. The router will talk to other openmoko routers, routing the call to users on openmoko network. Files and video can be transfered/ streamed to each other through openmoko. This would be a great to go along with Openmoko, not only providing a free phone, but also a free network as well. -- Best Regards, George ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Get them while they're still hot!
Can we get some more detail on the shipping insurance please? Maybe: http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/shipping/time/service/value_added/ declared_value.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The Openmoko Vo-IP network
On 7/13/07, Nick Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/11/07, George Abraham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now that we have a great phone to use, we could use a great channel for communication. The vision is to communicate using the most open channel of communication ( the Internet) using VoIP technology for routing all mobile phone calls. Openmoko application framework can be used to create a skype-like client running on openmoko. A wireless router can provide the mobility, which are connected to each other using the Internet. The hotspot can be serviced by WiMAX or WiFi technology. The router will talk to other openmoko routers, routing the call to users on openmoko network. Files and video can be transfered/ streamed to each other through openmoko. This would be a great to go along with Openmoko, not only providing a free phone, but also a free network as well. There is already a technology for this - SIP - and open VOIP PABXes (Asterisk). We just need a client for OpenMoko. No sense reinventing the wheel. :) -Nick Johnson ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I think on this way there could be somethnig more powerful for the OpenMoko: some sort of ad-hoc network between openmokos. hm.. let's see if I can describe what i mean: Some sort of Adressed Walkie-Talkie with openmoko as clients AND as repeaters. It should be possible, and useful for example in companies where the OpenMoko is adopted as officaial phone, or for Trekking groups, et cetera... -- My corner of the web: http://ramsesoriginal.wordpress.com My dream, my world: http://abenu.wordpress.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Get them while they're still hot!
On 7/9/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Get them while they're still hot ;-) what happened to the in car mounting kit? or can we get a recommendation on a compatible model? I asked the same question on Sunday July 8, the official answer from sean was that they had problems with the cable and they decided to focus on more important stuff. Also he stated that the selling of the car kit will probably! start with the massmarket phone. Personally I don't car too much about the cable (I'm interested in the holder) but I fully understand! cheers -homyx ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: thregister coverage of first Neo
Reading the title of that article I first realize the big difference between the two types of free for mobile phones... Maybe something for that guy that made those commercials. All sorts of free (no money) phones, listed with the contract they're bound to + not really free. And then last but not least: The FIC Neo1973: 300$, but completely free. anyhow, nice thing the register noticed too :) On 7/10/07, Sander van Grieken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TheRegister coverage of the GTA01 release: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07/09/neo_1973_launch/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Binary tarball of toolchain/build environment
On Fri, 2007-07-13 at 13:34 +0200, Shakthi Kannan wrote: Hi, Can someone provide a link to a binary tarball for the openmoko toolchain/build environment? (similar to CodeSourcery's GNU toolchains): http://www.codesourcery.com/gnu_toolchains/arm/download.html Something that I can simply download, extract and use it to build packages, and test it on qemu? Or, do I need to follow the 'build from scratch' procedure: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch I don't have a direct (firewall-free) connection to the Internet. Thanks, SK I want that to - seeing that building from scratch doesn't want to work on my openSUSE 10.2 distro.?? E-Mail disclaimer: http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The Openmoko Vo-IP network
On Friday 13 July 2007 12:08, ramsesoriginal wrote: On 7/13/07, Nick Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/11/07, George Abraham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now that we have a great phone to use, we could use a great channel for communication. The vision is to communicate using the most open channel of communication ( the Internet) using VoIP technology for routing all mobile phone calls. Openmoko application framework can be used to create a skype-like client running on openmoko. A wireless router can provide the mobility, which are connected to each other using the Internet. The hotspot can be serviced by WiMAX or WiFi technology. The router will talk to other openmoko routers, routing the call to users on openmoko network. Files and video can be transfered/ streamed to each other through openmoko. This would be a great to go along with Openmoko, not only providing a free phone, but also a free network as well. There is already a technology for this - SIP - and open VOIP PABXes (Asterisk). We just need a client for OpenMoko. No sense reinventing the wheel. :) -Nick Johnson I think on this way there could be somethnig more powerful for the OpenMoko: some sort of ad-hoc network between openmokos. hm.. let's see if I can describe what i mean: Some sort of Adressed Walkie-Talkie with openmoko as clients AND as repeaters. It should be possible, and useful for example in companies where the OpenMoko is adopted as officaial phone, or for Trekking groups, et cetera... SIP will work client to client. If you get ad-hoc or mesh networking over WiFi and share your sip identity it should just work. Putting a nice, usable interface on it and making it secure will be more of a challenge. In a company I would not use that solution as it's a management nightmare. A SIP client connecting over WiFi to an asterisk server makes much more sense. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Binary tarball of toolchain/build environment
On 7/13/07, vivek khurana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can try mokomake file. It has target for compiling qemu and running qemu. As for direct connection, try setting proxy variable in shell to connect a machine behind firewalled proxy server. FWIW, the MokoMakefile worked great for me on Xubuntu 7.04. Just make sure you have installed the required packages first. I had to install gcc-3.4 and sdl (devel) in order for 'make qemu' to work. -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Binary tarball of toolchain/build environment
A tarball would be really great, because I have several problems on my amd64-gentoo, too. Starting at gcc3 (gentoo uses gcc4 per default and switching to 3 sucks) to several amd64 problems. 2007/7/13, Shakthi Kannan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, On 7/13/07, vivek khurana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As for direct connection, try setting proxy variable in shell to connect a machine behind firewalled proxy server. ... and you thought I didn't know that? I cannot connect any machine to _this_ network. I don't have any other Internet connectivity, either. Hence, the need for the tarball. Regards, SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Remember: No shipping of Neo 1973 before July 16th
Guys, does noone remember this posting http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006633.html by William Lai of OpenMoko's community development department? The phone won't be shipping before Monday Julty 16th which is probably the reason why you haven't been billed yet. Relax. -Sven Neuhaus ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Board only option in October?
Bryce Leo wrote: Now ian that's a sweet Idea but the only problem is finding a place to buy a psp display! For 289 I can get these http://teptronics.com/pl9phrb.html two things, just as trivially I have two 9in diagonal screens that I can use for just about anything! But yes, i very much see where you're going. Heck, it'd be a pretty cool thinclient setup to build into a lap-board or tray while you're eating. Have some news feeds or soemthing like that going through. The possibilities are endless! Ebay - cheap, possibly clone displays - sparkfun - more expensive. PSP are nice as they have a matching interface. Much other stuff has LVDS, which won't work. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Group purchase/shipping generally
On Jul 4, 2007, at 12:52 AM, Thomas Gstädtner wrote: before some days Hans van der Merwe asked, if it is possible to do group purchases (in South Africa). Unfortunately he got no answer, so I'd like to ask again. We can ship anywhere that UPS can ship now ;-) I'm from germany and I think there are many people here who like to buy a GTA01 device. If everyone orders a single device it are $20 to $40 for the shipment PLUS 19% VAT on the device INCLUDING the shipment. Let's assume you order a device for $300, shipment is expensive with $40 this are $340, plus VAT it are $405. Now let's assume there are 4 people who want to have a device, the package is still small enough for $40. So we pay ((($300*4)+$40)*1.19)/4 what makes $370 (+$5 for forwarding the packet inland). So everybody could save at least $30, maybe more if it would be possible to send bigger packets. I know shipping is a bit pricey now. But we just don't have our global distribution setup yet. We're working on this, but it won't be in place before our mass market launch in Oct. Sorry for any troubles this might cause. We just don't have the bandwidth to do this now. It would be nice if someone at FIC (Sean? :) ) could tell us if it would be possible to take group orders and how many devices could be shipped at once. Knowing that would be great, because groups could plan the purchase before the 9th. You can order a max of 11 devices at a time. Let us know (by email) if you need to order more and we can talk about this case-by-case. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Binary tarball of toolchain/build environment
On 7/13/07, Shakthi Kannan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't have a direct (firewall-free) connection to the Internet. You can try mokomake file. It has target for compiling qemu and running qemu. As for direct connection, try setting proxy variable in shell to connect a machine behind firewalled proxy server. regards VK ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OpenMoko BoF session at Ubuntu Live
they assigned us 7:00pm on Sunday, July 22 http://www.ubuntulive.com/cs/ubuntu/view/e_sess/14821 I have a couple of extra passes in case anyone wants to come and has forgotten to register. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Binary tarball of toolchain/build environment
On Fri, 2007-07-13 at 15:00 +0200, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: On 7/13/07, vivek khurana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can try mokomake file. It has target for compiling qemu and running qemu. As for direct connection, try setting proxy variable in shell to connect a machine behind firewalled proxy server. FWIW, the MokoMakefile worked great for me on Xubuntu 7.04. Just make sure you have installed the required packages first. I had to install gcc-3.4 and sdl (devel) in order for 'make qemu' to work. Well, on openSUSE 10.2 I get Can't install openembedded-essential_1.1-1: no package provides python = 2.3 When trying to install openembedded-essential via smart packagemanger pointing to http://www.openembedded.org/dl/ I have python 2.5 installed. Any ideas? E-Mail disclaimer: http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Remember: No shipping of Neo 1973 before July 16th
Thank you Sven!! I did not see that post! No worries now Looking forward to ship day... --clayton On 7/13/07, Sven Neuhaus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guys, does noone remember this posting http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006633.html by William Lai of OpenMoko's community development department? The phone won't be shipping before Monday Julty 16th which is probably the reason why you haven't been billed yet. Relax. -Sven Neuhaus ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: thregister coverage of first Neo
The latest from Nokia: $200 Being tied into a 2 year contract: $1500 *crossfade to Neo* Knowing you're not stuck with one network: Priceless ;) -Nick On 7/13/07, Luit van Drongelen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Reading the title of that article I first realize the big difference between the two types of free for mobile phones... Maybe something for that guy that made those commercials. All sorts of free (no money) phones, listed with the contract they're bound to + not really free. And then last but not least: The FIC Neo1973: 300$, but completely free. anyhow, nice thing the register noticed too :) On 7/10/07, Sander van Grieken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TheRegister coverage of the GTA01 release: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07/09/neo_1973_launch/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The Openmoko Vo-IP network
On 7/11/07, George Abraham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now that we have a great phone to use, we could use a great channel for communication. The vision is to communicate using the most open channel of communication ( the Internet) using VoIP technology for routing all mobile phone calls. Openmoko application framework can be used to create a skype-like client running on openmoko. A wireless router can provide the mobility, which are connected to each other using the Internet. The hotspot can be serviced by WiMAX or WiFi technology. The router will talk to other openmoko routers, routing the call to users on openmoko network. Files and video can be transfered/ streamed to each other through openmoko. This would be a great to go along with Openmoko, not only providing a free phone, but also a free network as well. There is already a technology for this - SIP - and open VOIP PABXes (Asterisk). We just need a client for OpenMoko. No sense reinventing the wheel. :) -Nick Johnson ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Binary tarball of toolchain/build environment
Hi, Can someone provide a link to a binary tarball for the openmoko toolchain/build environment? (similar to CodeSourcery's GNU toolchains): http://www.codesourcery.com/gnu_toolchains/arm/download.html Something that I can simply download, extract and use it to build packages, and test it on qemu? Or, do I need to follow the 'build from scratch' procedure: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch I don't have a direct (firewall-free) connection to the Internet. Thanks, SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GMail, silence and other problems
On Fri, 2007-07-13 at 07:19 +0200, Karsten Ensinger wrote: Hi guys (and girl(s)), as far as I can say from my experiences, there was NEVER a break in delivery of message worth to mention the last days. It also seems as if only GMail customers complain about a disruption of operation. I'm not a g-mail customer (unless somehow my IEEE.org relay address is hooked into them - but I'm not getting duplicated); however, I experienced about 2 days with no deliveries from any of the multiple openmoko lists to which I'm subscribed. Was going to look the URLs of my recent mails on the subject, but http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community is not responding after several minutes and multiple retries. [P.S. finally got the first page up, but now waiting. for a response from the Archives link. Ah - finally: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006776.html http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006778.html Still seem to be some capacity/functionality issues on the server end, but then that's what we're discussing.] During the time, where the GMail customers complained to had an outage, I did not receive any duplicates. Since then I get a lot of duplicates from GMail senders again. So it seems to me as if there are still problems with GMail. There are still problems with g-mail dups. If the filters to deal with those were causing the delivery-outage, it impacted others as well as g-mail users. Just to let you know. Speaking of other problems - it would sure be nice to see extensive cross-linking between openmoko.com and openmoko.org sites, both at the top level, and down the hierarchy at appropriate points (e.g. the .com site should point to appropriate .org page[s] when applications are mentioned). This would help those finding the Neo1973/GTA0x at the .com site to get hooked into the community, and links from the .org to .com would help to point potential customers to where they can acquire the hardware. Would also be nice to see at least some links or acknowledgements from FIC corporate site[s] to both. I couldn't find any OpenMoko or Neo1973 references on the FIC home page or via the site search box. [A google on openmoko site:fic.com.tw does turn up two pages - one English and one Chinese. The English one shows no visible reference to OpenMoko, but the Chinese automatic translation seems to be job listings and has one OPENMOKO reference but no description of duties. But I digress...] I really hope the OpenMoko efforts come together on the corporate end and produce viable open source products to fulfill the vision that brought the list members here. It is obvious that there are some growing pains, but hopefully a strong organism will be the ultimate outcome. Phil ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GMail, silence and other problems
as far as I can say from my experiences, there was NEVER a break in delivery of message worth to mention the last days. It also seems as if only GMail customers complain about a disruption of operation. Not just gmail customers; I had the same problem as well. According to smtp logs from my mail server, there were no attempts to deliver any email from openmoko lists (not just the community list) during that +-2day outage. Now I'm having the same problem with duplicated gmail posts as probably all of you do (this might be a gmail problem, of course). Vladimir signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: openmoko UI/UE Guidelines
Hello Simon, all - I would appreciate more external direction on UI issues as well. On the other hand, I will just ignore it and do what I want anyways. :) But my point is, Simon, since you happen to have experience, I want to encourage you to edit the Lookfeel document on the wiki. I know I will read it! p.s., if you use gmail, then please stop posting to the list. Cheers, - Greg On Tue, Jul 10, 2007 at 11:45:33AM +0200, Simon Thorsander wrote: Hi you all! As recently introduced to the open source domain I must say that the openmoko-platform/Neo1973-project really has been an eye-opener. I've been working professionally within the mobile software industry for several years as interaction designer and I'm candidly looking forward to meet the first freed phone on the mass market. One of the great advantages with the openmoko-solution (and challenges, as I see it) is that it potentially facilitates wholehearted liberation of the end user experience as well as customization possibilities never seen before... ...BUT enclosed with this liberation - UI challenges arise, such as; consistent UI and permeate intuitive interaction algorithms (especially when it comes to 3rd party applications). In short time I have come across UE issues solely through SDK usage in combination with Neo1973 focused conceptual interface paper mockup testing. This comes down to my introductory mailing list-question/discussion: I've tried to find some sort of UI Guideline/UE Policy concerning the openmoko platform, but haven't come across any - is there one out there? Or is the only input available; found at the openmoko Wiki - Look Feel-section ( http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Look_%26_Feel ). If the Look Feel-section is the solely source of UE specification available - is there any discussions going on (e.g. within the openmoko mailing list's or externally) concerning how UI design directives could/should be developed for the community/developers? /Simon Thorsander Interaction designer within a small-scale openmoko project at Teleca. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Remember: No shipping of Neo 1973 before July 16th
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:05:18 +0200 Sven Neuhaus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guys, does noone remember this posting http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006633.html by William Lai of OpenMoko's community development department? The phone won't be shipping before Monday Julty 16th which is probably the reason why you haven't been billed yet. Relax. -Sven Neuhaus Humm it seems that we should not expect any order confirmation http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Direct.openmoko.com_order_process Even though the auto email stated: You will receive another message as order confirmation after our staff has accepted it. It looks like it has been replaced by a Payment received email So now I only? have to make sure that I get a black/sliver unit... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
A little bad press? OpenMoko already facing difficulties?
Found on LXer: OpenMoko already facing difficulties? http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/89804/index.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Cheers for Harald
Another little voice - Harald please take some time and get better, You are a vital cog in this machine... Clare On 7/13/07, Jonas Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quoting Mikko Rauhala on 07/12/2007 04:39 PM UTC: to, 2007-07-12 kello 04:43 -0400, Phil Schaffner kirjoitti: Harald Welte's blog http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/07/11#20070711-insanity [...] Eyeing at the earlier posts and other stuff on what's been going on, no wonder there's some burnout (one assumes) going around... Thanks for all your commentary and work so far, don't kill yourself with it. I'm sure I speak for more than myself in wishing you a speedy but decidedly not hurried recovery. Right on.. Take care! -- - xkr47 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Unanswered FAQ (wiki) questions.
Hello, people Just a fast one There are some Questions in the FAQ (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1_FAQ) not being answered like: I've ordered several days ago and received no confirmation that the order was accepted. Is this ok? Will I still get a phone? That many people might be interested in (including myself). IF anyone has any idea on any of these answeres please let us know :) Thanks to everyone in advance. George Antoniadis. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GMail, silence and other problems
I am not seeing your emails duplicated. -david Christopher Heiny wrote: On Thursday 12 July 2007, ground control picked up the following transmission from Karsten Ensinger: It also seems as if only GMail customers complain about a disruption of operation. Also disrupted for starband.net ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: TomTom (was Re: [Nederlanders opgelet] Dutch newspaper blog about OpenMoko phone)
That would be great. Anyone got contacts to TomTom? If they could provide it within the release, it would be a good chance to make ads (eventually toghether) On 7/12/07, Ian Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, I guess when the author says navigational software shouldn't be a problem because TomTom runs Linux, he's wrong, right? (That was a weird sentence) Some or all of the commercial TomTom units run Linux internally, and, they have software-only products (e.g., I think this is what Palm resells for some Treo models). Putting that together, one can predict that TomTom *might* offer an Arm-Linux-Based software-only product that would work on OpenMoko, when the volume sales of OpenMoko are there. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- My corner of the web: http://ramsesoriginal.wordpress.com My dream, my world: http://abenu.wordpress.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open Source In Mobile (OSiM) conference, September, Spain
On Jul 12, 2007, at 2:31 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From their website: The World's Largest Forum for Mobile Linux and Open Source OSiM 2007 responds to the explosive growth of Open Source and Linux integration in mobile devices. It provides the information you require as you enter this complex space; bringing together the key players in this new ecosystem for hundreds of networking and partnership opportunities. http://www.osimconference.com/newt/l/handsetsvision/osim/index.html Anyone going to be there? If there is no official OpenMoko representation, perhaps one of you would organize a BoF? Mickey, Harald, and I will all be there. This will be our one year anniversary where things all began ;-) -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: A little bad press? OpenMoko already facing difficulties?
FIC is still a corporation. I'm sure there are many other software developers on this list that can attest that there's more to software development than coding. I suspect it's the other stuff that is bothering Harold. As far as no phones shipping: we knew they wouldn't ship right away. When Sean made the announcement on July 9th, he said the phones were waiting in customs and would then be shipped to California. This has taken more than 5 days now. I think it's a little early to panic. On 7/13/07, Jason Elwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Found on LXer: OpenMoko already facing difficulties? http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/89804/index.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Concern for usability and ergonomics
Several weeks ago Sean wrote: I totally agree with your points. Please keep in mind that this was our first design. And that we are using an ID design that simply wasn't made for what this project has become. It was originally designed for a completely different usage scenario. I just came across this mail and thought of something: not necessarily bad. The Java language and runtime was originally designed for a completely different usage scenario. The Oak language (renamed to Java in 1995) was designed to write the code in set-top TV boxes. Yet it went on to almost totally conquer the large corporation enterprise server market. Reuse can work well... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OpenMoko Local Groups
Hi list, I reckon this is the right time to start thinking about local OpenMoko groups. This way developers can get to know each other, exchange experiences, etc. Have a look and give some statement :-) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_Local_Groups tim/minime ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shipping costs
There are at least two more wishful persons in Russia (Moscow). But as I can see the main problem in our case is to deal with Russian customs... krakatau wrote: Maybe it is possible to share shiping cost between several people. I have the same issue in St-Petersburg, Russia. On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:51:05 +0400, Gena Batsyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm shocked! I wanted to purchase neo to Belarus - 140 bucks for shipping, that's a half of the device price!!! Western Europe is about 90. What's going on, WHY ??? Are there any plans to reduce shipping costs for the 1st generation of neo in the next future? I'd appreciate any quotes on that. Regards! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[UK] Import Duty
Guys, I've just been on the HMRC website (http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true_pageLabel=pageTravel_ShowContentid=HMCE_PROD_009989propertyType=document) and have found the following information: ITEM |Excise Duty|Standard Duty|VAT Rate| Mobile phones | Free | Free| Standard Rate | Does this mean that for a neo1973 Base ~184GBP on delivery I'll have to pay another 32.20GBP? Regards, Andy Loughran www.zrmt.com m: 07921076319 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: A little bad press? OpenMoko already facing difficulties?
I agree no one should panic. But the guys at openmoko should take their blogs more seriously and stop putting frustrations. remember alot of eyes are upon them these days. they should put their best foot up front. (i think thats how it goes ;)) and look more professional to be taken seriously. thats my 0.02$ - Original Message From: Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@lists.openmoko.org Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 11:17:36 AM Subject: Re: A little bad press? OpenMoko already facing difficulties? FIC is still a corporation. I'm sure there are many other software developers on this list that can attest that there's more to software development than coding. I suspect it's the other stuff that is bothering Harold. As far as no phones shipping: we knew they wouldn't ship right away. When Sean made the announcement on July 9th, he said the phones were waiting in customs and would then be shipped to California. This has taken more than 5 days now. I think it's a little early to panic. On 7/13/07, Jason Elwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Found on LXer: OpenMoko already facing difficulties? http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/89804/index.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [UK] Import Duty
On Friday 13 July 2007 17:30:36 Andy Loughran wrote: Does this mean that for a neo1973 Base ~184GBP on delivery I'll have to pay another 32.20GBP? That's very much dependent on how the customs sees your Neo. Some categories of products seem to be exempt of VAT in many countries (engineering samples for one). In general I would expect that you will *have to pay VAT*. pgpN5GQh4wNzC.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
AW: [UK] Import Duty
Not sure what the VAT rate in the UK is, but yes if the Neo gets shipped from outside the EU, then you'll have to pay import VAT. And I would expect no import duties as such, as mobiles, IT stuff have a rate of 0% in Germany, thus in all EU countries. Andreas -- Ursprüngl. Mitteil. -- Betreff:[UK] Import Duty Von:Andy Loughran [EMAIL PROTECTED] Datum: 13.07.2007 15:39 Guys, I've just been on the HMRC website (http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true_pageLabel=pageTravel_ShowContentid=HMCE_PROD_009989propertyType=document) and have found the following information: ITEM |Excise Duty|Standard Duty|VAT Rate| Mobile phones | Free | Free| Standard Rate | Does this mean that for a neo1973 Base ~184GBP on delivery I'll have to pay another 32.20GBP? Regards, Andy Loughran www.zrmt.com m: 07921076319 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
gmail problems
First off, I apologize for the dupes some of you are going to get from this message. Secondly, I'd like to know, has anyone contacted google about the duplicate problem? If not, I'll do it tonight, but I'd like to have more than just some people have been reporting a problem I've seen some server logs come across the list, I'll dig through and find those, but for those that can, I'd like to have enough of that available for them to troubleshoot, so if you can send me that to forward on to them, I'll make our case known -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: thregister coverage of first Neo
I try not to name a manufacturer by name in the short clips. I have an idea that addresses contracts. One is just a time lapse showing the seasons across two years ending with something like, you still have one year to go, etc. The other is a chain gang working along the highway. Either the uniforms are the colors of a wireless provider or the guards are dressed like wireless salesmen. It would have a better effect of it being a family in chains--family plan contract--but I don't think certain family groups appreciate that image. -adam Nick Johnson wrote: The latest from Nokia: $200 Being tied into a 2 year contract: $1500 *crossfade to Neo* Knowing you're not stuck with one network: Priceless ;) -Nick On 7/13/07, Luit van Drongelen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Reading the title of that article I first realize the big difference between the two types of free for mobile phones... Maybe something for that guy that made those commercials. All sorts of free (no money) phones, listed with the contract they're bound to + not really free. And then last but not least: The FIC Neo1973: 300$, but completely free. anyhow, nice thing the register noticed too :) On 7/10/07, Sander van Grieken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TheRegister coverage of the GTA01 release: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07/09/neo_1973_launch/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gmail problems
On Fri, Jul 13, 2007 at 09:37:46AM -0700, thus spake Jeff Andros: First off, I apologize for the dupes some of you are going to get from this message. Secondly, I'd like to know, has anyone contacted google about the duplicate problem? I'm working in the Gmail group this summer and I'm currently in contact with appropriate people about this. I hope to have something to report later today. Thanks, Marco If not, I'll do it tonight, but I'd like to have more than just some people have been reporting a problem I've seen some server logs come across the list, I'll dig through and find those, but for those that can, I'd like to have enough of that available for them to troubleshoot, so if you can send me that to forward on to them, I'll make our case known -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. - Carl Sagan, astronomer and author (1934-1996) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gmail problems
On 7/13/07, Marco Barreno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm working in the Gmail group this summer and I'm currently in contact with appropriate people about this. I hope to have something to report later today. Thanks, Marco awesome, I was starting to worry that it was going to be a bunch of people grousing about a problem, and no one doing anything about it. Thank you for taking care of this -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gmail problems
On 7/13/07, Jeff Andros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: awesome, I was starting to worry that it was going to be a bunch of people grousing about a problem, and no one doing anything about it. FWIW, the problem sees intermittent. For example, I haven't seen any dups from you in this thread so far. -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: A little bad press? OpenMoko already facing difficulties?
I agree no one should panic. But the guys at openmoko should take their blogs more seriously and stop putting frustrations. remember alot of eyes are upon them these days. they should put their best foot up front. (i think thats how it goes ;)) and look more professional to be taken seriously. Open is just that, open. Be open about your human side, too. If journalists and corporate drones refuse to accept emotions in a team like for OpenMoko/Neo1973, which for many practical purposes is like a very stressfull start-up, well. Ignore the journalists and corporate drones. After all, Linus stopped working on kernel, too: http://www.thejemreport.com/mambo/content/view/320 Moral of the story: do not adapt your best practices because someone might misinterpret them. A blog entry is not a press release. Kind regards, Kero. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Buying FIC stock long
On 7/12/07, Alexander E Genaud [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PS - Clarification: Is FIC a publicly traded company and if so, what is the ticker code (or a division closest to OpenMoko) and upon what exchange is it traded? Looks like the TSEC/TAIEX: http://203.74.228.63/t40/e_C_public.jsp?strMode=1 or if the IP address is too scary: http://www.tse.com.tw/en/products/stock_code.php and click on 'Public Companies'. Joe ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OM-i18n-ml
Hi all! I think having a ML for translators could be very useful... even a ML for our own language. The community ML is rather good, but a bit high traffic for translations purpose. Usaully translation teams have a ML for their language, so they can share thoughts, ideas and review the translations in their own language, without worrying too much. If we want OpenMoko to rock more than now, translations are absolutely needed and have to be of the highest quality. My 2 cents. Cheers! :) -- Milo Casagrande [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: Questa è una parte del messaggio firmata digitalmente ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: A little bad press? OpenMoko already facing difficulties?
Open source, home of the overreaction. Land of the, You can't be human! and free as in Free to judge! Why? Because we are a community. :-) +++ Sorry. All the best, Harold. Have no idea *who* you are, but OpenMoko rocks! Kick some iPhone a**. Thanks for your contributions! Amy :) On 7/13/07, Mohammed Musallam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree no one should panic. But the guys at openmoko should take their blogs more seriously and stop putting frustrations. remember alot of eyes are upon them these days. they should put their best foot up front. (i think thats how it goes ;)) and look more professional to be taken seriously. thats my 0.02$ - Original Message From: Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@lists.openmoko.org Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 11:17:36 AM Subject: Re: A little bad press? OpenMoko already facing difficulties? FIC is still a corporation. I'm sure there are many other software developers on this list that can attest that there's more to software development than coding. I suspect it's the other stuff that is bothering Harold. As far as no phones shipping: we knew they wouldn't ship right away. When Sean made the announcement on July 9th, he said the phones were waiting in customs and would then be shipped to California. This has taken more than 5 days now. I think it's a little early to panic. On 7/13/07, Jason Elwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Found on LXer: OpenMoko already facing difficulties? http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/89804/index.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- *All new Yahoo! Mail - *http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=40705/*http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca -- Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://OpenSourceCommunity.org ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open Source In Mobile (OSiM) conference, September, Spain
You'll be welcome to come here to Spain! :) By the way, as I seem to be the only Spaniard here, do you know the meaning of 'Moko' in Spanish? It's hard to tell people here about your great platform after they listen to its name! It might be a marketing barrier when the phone reaches Spanish speaking countries... Hopefully, the phone will be too good and it won't be a problem ;) Congratulations! José Ignacio 2007/7/13, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Jul 12, 2007, at 2:31 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From their website: The World's Largest Forum for Mobile Linux and Open Source OSiM 2007 responds to the explosive growth of Open Source and Linux integration in mobile devices. It provides the information you require as you enter this complex space; bringing together the key players in this new ecosystem for hundreds of networking and partnership opportunities. http://www.osimconference.com/newt/l/handsetsvision/osim/index.html Anyone going to be there? If there is no official OpenMoko representation, perhaps one of you would organize a BoF? Mickey, Harald, and I will all be there. This will be our one year anniversary where things all began ;-) -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gmail.com problems and this list
Hi everyone, Short version: It seems the duplicated messages are not just a Gmail problem: mails are also being duplicated from starband.net and possibly others as well, so it seems the problem is likely something on the openmoko side that only happens to cause duplicates with some sending domains and not others. I'ts also not consistent; some messages from Gmail and starband.net are duplicated while others aren't. I've checked with the Gmail team, and the duplicated messages from Gmail are happening because Gmail doesn't receive the SMTP OK from the openmoko list server, so it retransmits because it thinks the messages don't get delivered. To debug further, an admin on the list machine needs to enable verbose SMTP logging if it's not already enabled and provide information about if/when the OK is sent. Here are some example message IDs for which the logs would be useful: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] If verbose logging isn't already enabled, however, enabling it and then sending logs for any future duplicated messages would work too. Detailed version: On Mon, Jul 09, 2007 at 11:14:03PM -0700, thus spake Wolfgang S. Rupprecht: At least one of the opemoko machines at 88.198.124.203 opens an smtp connection back to the sending domain to verify the sender address of any incoming message. The smtp-back machine has messed up DNS. The claimed rDNS for that IP is openmoko.org but the forward DNS check for that openmoko.org doesn't list 88.198.124.203 as a valid address. If the sending machine is checking for spammers claiming a bunk DNS name will reject 88.198.124.203's SMTP verify. The opemmoko machine will then interpret that failed smtp verify attempt as the verified address not existing and will decline the initial incoming transfer. Even ignoring the messed-up DNS for the moment, doing an SMTP callback is not a good way to check existence of an email account. For one thing, whenever a spammer spoofs a From address in an innocent domain, that domain can get bombarded with callbacks. For another thing, spammers sometimes use RCPT commands themselves to check existence of email addresses, so ISPs are likely to consider many such requests to be abusive behavior. In the case of a large ISP (such as Gmail), if a lot of email is sent to a destination that does callbacks, the frequency of callbacks can trigger abuse prevention measures. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callback_verification for more drawbacks. (In particular, note: If a server receives a lot of spam, it will do a lot of callbacks and if those addresses are invalid, the server will look very similar to a spammer who is doing a dictionary attack to harvest addresses. This in turn might get the server blacklisted elsewhere.) For these reasons, Gmail strongly recommends avoiding callbacks and instead checking SPF records (Sender Policy Framework, provided via DNS) to verify that the mail is indeed coming from Google (i.e. the SMTP connection is coming from an IP authorized to send email on behalf of Google). However, in this case it does not seem that the problem was caused by the callbacks. The openmoko server accepted the mail (which it wouldn't do if the callback failed to verify the sender) and the DATA command was sent, but Gmail never received the next SMTP OK acknowledgment before timing out. So one of four things was happening: 1) openmoko never sent the OK -- problem on openmoko end 2) openmoko waited too long before sending the OK and SMTP timed out -- seems to indicate problem on the openmoko end 3) the OK was lost in transit -- network difficulties, neither side at fault 4) the OK was received by Gmail -- problem at the Gmail end Since at least one other domain is showing the same behavior, it seems 1 or 2 is most likely, but we can't say for sure without more information. One interesting fact is that the openmoko server started sending mail back to Gmail recipients (after list expansion) before Gmail received the SMTP OK. Perhaps this means the list server waits until after list expansion to send the OK? That could cause it to time out pretty easily. It would help diagnosis if someone on the list machine could send the verbose SMTP logs (if they were recorded). The logs posted by Harald Welte don't give enough information: what we really need to see is whether (and if so, when) the SMTP OK was sent for any of the failed/duplicated messages. Here are three example message IDs: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] If the logging needs to have more verbosity enabled, however, the logs for any duplicated message after such enabling would work just as well. By the way, the Received header chains posted by David Ford don't necessarily show that the problem is within Gmail; there could be any number of legitimate reasons why the resending isn't originating at the last hop out of the Google network. Yes, Gmail is sending the mail multiple times,
Re: A little bad press? OpenMoko already facing difficulties?
Blogging imo, is all about marketing, and whether it is positive or negative, still imo, all that counts is the size of the impact. Think of scandals, do they do any real damages to those stars? They're still quite much in business! Also, the fact that negative aspect of this quest for freedom is being shared, is so you can feel the reality of the challenge too. All in all, these are all secret techniques to induce genuine happiness in all of you who are waiting! =) Simon On 7/13/07, Mohammed Musallam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree no one should panic. But the guys at openmoko should take their blogs more seriously and stop putting frustrations. remember alot of eyes are upon them these days. they should put their best foot up front. (i think thats how it goes ;)) and look more professional to be taken seriously. thats my 0.02$ - Original Message From: Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@lists.openmoko.org Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 11:17:36 AM Subject: Re: A little bad press? OpenMoko already facing difficulties? FIC is still a corporation. I'm sure there are many other software developers on this list that can attest that there's more to software development than coding. I suspect it's the other stuff that is bothering Harold. As far as no phones shipping: we knew they wouldn't ship right away. When Sean made the announcement on July 9th, he said the phones were waiting in customs and would then be shipped to California. This has taken more than 5 days now. I think it's a little early to panic. On 7/13/07, Jason Elwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Found on LXer: OpenMoko already facing difficulties? http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/89804/index.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community All new Yahoo! Mail - Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
freetheiphone.org
Just launched today, I figure we should be aware. Maybe we could turn this into an opportunity to increase awareness of the neo: http://freetheiphone.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Board only option in October?
Is there anyone who is involved in hardware development and seriously believes that the cost of an upgrade board (which necessarily will have all the stuff like the LCD attached to it, cause they are not end-user replaceable parts) will be any cheaper than the cost of a whole phone? The stuff that is not replaced is just some bits of plastic ... Then you have to add in the additional overhead costs of handling a whole new item for sale, warranty and support issues, etc ... Sorry, but I find it hard to believe that this will happen, and if you base your buying decision on a hope that this will happen then you should be probably be prepared to be disappointed ... (All my opinion only) -- Rod ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Board only option in October?
Rod Whitby writes: Is there anyone who is involved in hardware development and seriously believes that the cost of an upgrade board (which necessarily will have all the stuff like the LCD attached to it, cause they are not end-user replaceable parts) will be any cheaper than the cost of a whole phone? Why won't the LCD be a user-replaceble part? It certainly was in my old Palm III; the screens I've encountered in the past have connected to their devices with a, well, connector! The stuff that is not replaced is just some bits of plastic ... Also, of course, there won't be a need for a new microSD nor batteries... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open Source In Mobile (OSiM) conference, September, Spain
José only Spaniard here, do you know the meaning of 'Moko' in Spanish? It's hard to tell people here about your great platform after they listen to its name! wasn't the chevrolet nova one of the last cars to be marketed by just one name worldwide? It wasn't such a great product name for Spanish speakers. Call the phone a neo and tell people it's from FIC. And put a sticker on the back. :) Brad ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Application UI Design Recommendations
I've added a section for UI design recommendations and guidelines. This should help new old developers to agree on a uniformed user experience. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_UI_Design_Recommendations lets all work together on filling this section. Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open Source In Mobile (OSiM) conference, September, Spain
Brad Midgley writes: only Spaniard here, do you know the meaning of 'Moko' in Spanish? It's hard to tell people here about your great platform after they listen to its name! wasn't the chevrolet nova one of the last cars to be marketed by just one name worldwide? It wasn't such a great product name for Spanish speakers. Having owned a 1975 Nova, I'll just say that it was a singularly well-named car. Or at least it would have been, if I were Spanish. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Application UI Design Recommendations
Mohammed I've added a section for UI design recommendations and guidelines. This should help new old developers to agree on a uniformed user experience. I filled in a few conventions I've noticed. There's inconsistency between some of the built-in apps so I've tried to document the approach that is most common or that seems to work the best. Brad ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open Source In Mobile (OSiM) conference, September, Spain
Joe Pfeiffer wrote: Brad Midgley writes: only Spaniard here, do you know the meaning of 'Moko' in Spanish? It's hard to tell people here about your great platform after they listen to its name! wasn't the chevrolet nova one of the last cars to be marketed by just one name worldwide? It wasn't such a great product name for Spanish speakers. Having owned a 1975 Nova, I'll just say that it was a singularly well-named car. Or at least it would have been, if I were Spanish. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Here's a couple of interesting Moko origins. http://www.tattooarchive.com/history/maori_moko.htm http://www.answers.com/topic/moko-1 A Google image search for Moko returns some cool Maori Moko (face) tats. CheersCazzj -- OpenMoko = TrueFreedom ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
