This list is *broken*
Since I subscribed to this list a couple days ago I have received the same messages, over and over again .. Its like groundhog day .. if I have to read another copy of the whole lists suck, use forums thread one more time, I'm going to imagine what its like to chuck my openmoko out the window (since I don't have it yet) and go do something else, like hack on my gp2x or something, instead .. Can the listadmin please pay attention and fix the broken list? We don't need all these repeats and it seems like mailman is borked, re- sending messages to the list over and again .. ; ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Duplicate message troubleshooting
On Wednesday 25 July 2007 00:47:02 Marco Barreno wrote: On Tue, Jul 24, 2007 at 10:42:01PM +0200, thus spake Andreas Kostyrka: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ok, putting on my Postmaster hat, could you please provide Message Ids and headers for messages from heaven.kostyrka.org that were sent duplicate? Please use private mail. Andreas I must apologize--I got some notes mixed up and listed the wrong domain. Actually I don't have a record of emails being duplicated from kostyrka.org. I have seen duplicate messages from cnlohr.com (Message ID [EMAIL PROTECTED]) and axialys.net (Message ID [EMAIL PROTECTED]), however. Here is the kind of things my SMTP relay logs while talking to openmoko's list server : Jul 24 18:46:21 cassis postfix/smtp[9586]: 7E28BE0BA0: to=community@lists.openmoko.org, relay=sita.openmoko.org[88.198.124.203]:25, delay=12360, delays=12279/0.16/0.15/80, dsn=4.4.2, status=deferred ( conversation with sita.openmoko.org[88.198.124.203] timed out while sending end of data -- message may be sent more than once) There is a fair amount of those messages concerning openmoko, and just one or two regarding other destinations (out of 25000+ mails relayed yesterday). I only posted once or twice to the list before, and no such behavior was encountered. Unfortunatly, I don't have further SMTP traces. Could there be some connectivity problem, maybe firewall related, on openmoko's side ? -- Nicolas Bougues Axialys Interactive ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: This list is *broken*
Jay Vaughan schrieb: Can the listadmin please pay attention and fix the broken list? We don't need all these repeats and it seems like mailman is borked, re-sending messages to the list over and again .. Sending these pleas to the list won't help, you want to contact the list owner (CC)... -Sven ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GUI idea
PS: Sorry I sent this to you already, Gerald. The usual error, forgot to change the To address... Which brings up a good point, can the mailing list administrator make the ReplyTo default to the mailing list rather than the original poster :) Must add this to the FAQ. In a word NO - it breaks RFC compliance. Full details here: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html http://woozle.org/~neale/papers/reply-to-still-harmful ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Diagnostic Message
This is a probe message to diagnose the SMTP problems. Please ignore. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Duplicate message troubleshooting
Nicolas Bougues wrote: Here is the kind of things my SMTP relay logs while talking to openmoko's list server : Jul 24 18:46:21 cassis postfix/smtp[9586]: 7E28BE0BA0: to=community@lists.openmoko.org, relay=sita.openmoko.org[88.198.124.203]:25, delay=12360, delays=12279/0.16/0.15/80, dsn=4.4.2, status=deferred ( conversation with sita.openmoko.org[88.198.124.203] timed out while sending end of data -- message may be sent more than once) There is a fair amount of those messages concerning openmoko, and just one or two regarding other destinations (out of 25000+ mails relayed yesterday). I only posted once or twice to the list before, and no such behavior was encountered. Unfortunatly, I don't have further SMTP traces. Could there be some connectivity problem, maybe firewall related, on openmoko's side ? The problem is their SMTP server is taking its own sweet time recognizing the end-of-message sequence, so peer MUAs are starting to timeout instead. Here is a manual session: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ telnet sita.openmoko.org smtp Trying 88.198.124.203... Connected to sita.openmoko.org. Escape character is '^]'. 220 sita.openmoko.org ESMTP Exim 4.50 Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:37:31 +0200 EHLO taupro.com 250-sita.openmoko.org Hello adsl-68-95-135-33.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net [68.95.135.33] 250-SIZE 52428800 250-PIPELINING 250 HELP RCPT: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 500 unrecognized command MAIL FORM 500 unrecognized command MAIL FROM:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 250 OK RCPT TO:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 550 unknown user RCPT TO:community@lists.openmoko.org 250 Accepted DATA 354 Enter message, ending with . on a line by itself Date: 25 Jul 2007 03:34:00 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Diagnostic Message This is a probe message to diagnose the SMTP problems. Please ignore. . (very long idle interval of 5 minutes or so) 250 OK id=1IDcPE-0002wr-QA It may be running off to validate the sender domain name to prevent spam, but is taking too long I think - perhaps an inefficient DNS arrangement. There are issues with their DNS, as this validator shows: http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=openmoko.org with the biggest problem being stealth NS records with leakage, which can wreak havoc with timeouts. And yes, I copied the -owner of the community list. -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GUI idea
The short answer is use Reply to all instead of Reply to sender On 7/25/07, Al Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PS: Sorry I sent this to you already, Gerald. The usual error, forgot to change the To address... Which brings up a good point, can the mailing list administrator make the ReplyTo default to the mailing list rather than the original poster :) Must add this to the FAQ. In a word NO - it breaks RFC compliance. Full details here: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html http://woozle.org/~neale/papers/reply-to-still-harmful ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[rt.internal.openmoko.org #1820] Order shipped:
FIC just made my day! Greetings, This message has been automatically generated with regard to the progress of your order at the OpenMoko online store (http://direct.openmoko.com/). Your order has been shipped! -Jason ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko BoF at OSCON Wed. 8:30pm
Please please film it and upload it to google video or such for online viewing. Most cons have started doing this with talks, but online BoF sessions are more rare. It would also prove a valuable resource for the community! /Oliver ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [rt.internal.openmoko.org #1820] Order shipped:
Jason Elwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : FIC just made my day! Your order has been shipped! You meanie :P I misread it and thought mine has shipped then :( I'm still having problems getting the USB networking going. I think I won't be able to do much until my phone arrives. In the meantime I think I'll do a few jobs listed on the Wiki (if they're still unresolved). http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Freshman_todo --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: chording (was: yet another alternative text input subject : Five finger keyboards)
There's a *lot* of prior art in chord keyboards (as they're normally called), and they work really well in a lot of environments. I suspect I might like five nicely-spaced buttons so I could do one-handed typing on the phone. You can imagine a chord keyboard that fits in your pocket so you can type relatively inconspicuously (though you may get some odd looks). I think Steve Mann's group (wearable computers) at Toronto have done some work in this area. You can not imagine doing this with a conventional keyboard. Unless you're a cartoonist, in which case you can imagine several appropriate responses. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: email vs forum
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not trying to prove something -- trying to give benefit of long experience in similar situations. Email is substantially more efficient, because it is intrinsically more powerful. For example: 8) Staying in touch directly with the community from my OpenMoko phone in a year using an expensive GPRS connection: - E-Mail: Loading everything via POP3 or even better compressed UUCP on my phone, reading with my favorite mail client that suits the display. Uses minimum bandwidth and I can cut the connection after loading mail. Cheap. - Web forum: Suffer with the web browser on a forum design not suitable to the small display. Using tons of bandwidth for every request, staying online all the time. Really expensive. Sebastian ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: email vs forum
On the other hand, via email you load everything while on a forum you choose what to view. The screen size argument also doesn't work too well as the Neo has 640*480 which is plenty and an official forum would obviously make sure to fit well into that resolution. How about continuing the discussion in the forum? :P Ortwin On 7/25/07, Sebastian Krause [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not trying to prove something -- trying to give benefit of long experience in similar situations. Email is substantially more efficient, because it is intrinsically more powerful. For example: 8) Staying in touch directly with the community from my OpenMoko phone in a year using an expensive GPRS connection: - E-Mail: Loading everything via POP3 or even better compressed UUCP on my phone, reading with my favorite mail client that suits the display. Uses minimum bandwidth and I can cut the connection after loading mail. Cheap. - Web forum: Suffer with the web browser on a forum design not suitable to the small display. Using tons of bandwidth for every request, staying online all the time. Really expensive. Sebastian ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: email vs forum
On 7/25/07, Sebastian Krause [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not trying to prove something -- trying to give benefit of long experience in similar situations. Email is substantially more efficient, because it is intrinsically more powerful. For example: 8) Staying in touch directly with the community from my OpenMoko phone in a year using an expensive GPRS connection: - E-Mail: Loading everything via POP3 or even better compressed UUCP on my phone, reading with my favorite mail client that suits the display. Uses minimum bandwidth and I can cut the connection after loading mail. Cheap. - Web forum: Suffer with the web browser on a forum design not suitable to the small display. Using tons of bandwidth for every request, staying online all the time. Really expensive. Sebastian -E-mail: loading hunderts of e-mails with questions that have been discuted at least 300 times and hunderts of flaming e-mails, and maybe dozends of i need this and that app e-mails, just to see that there's no kews in the development of the navigation system (the info you where looking for) -Webforum: click on a shortcut in the favorites, log in, jump to category application development - navigation system, seeing that there's nothing new, closing the connection. With the support of rss this would be even better: open feedreader, scan through new posts in application development-navigation system, close feedreader. -- My corner of the web: http://ramsesoriginal.wordpress.com My dream, my world: http://abenu.wordpress.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: email vs forum
ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -E-mail: loading hunderts of e-mails with questions that have been discuted at least 300 times and hunderts of flaming e-mails, and maybe dozends of i need this and that app e-mails, just to see that there's no kews in the development of the navigation system (the info you where looking for) -Webforum: click on a shortcut in the favorites, log in, jump to category application development - navigation system, seeing that there's nothing new, closing the connection. Just that a few page views on a heavily bloated forum web site already means more traffic than a bzip2-compressed UUCP batch of 300 mails. And still, if you just only want to quickly view if there are new messages on the server, you're free to use IMAP. Sebastian ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: qemu trouble...
Hello I have also some problems with qemu. I have build everything with the MokoMakefile and it works really nice! ;-) But when i want to use the gadged system to ssh into my moko, i get some trouble... I figured out that i had to recompile my default Debian Etch Kernel an did it. Now it seems to be all like in the wiki describes: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU#Setting_up_USB_connection Has anyone an idea for me? Is something wrong? But when i then do the usb_add gadget:1 command the qemu repeats: ### gadget_read: event error: 4 gadget_read: event error: 4 gadget_read: event error: 4 gadget_read: event error: 4 gadget_read: event error: 4 ### In my Syslog i can see many entrys: ### dummy_udc dummy_udc: binding gadget driver 'gadgetfs' gadgetfs: bound to dummy_udc driver dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: port status 0x00010101 has changes dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: port status 0x00010101 has changes dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: port status 0x00100503 has changes usb 6-1: new high speed USB device using dummy_hcd and address 5 gadgetfs: connected gadgetfs: disconnected dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: port status 0x00100503 has changes dummy_udc dummy_udc: set_address = 5 gadgetfs: connected dummy_udc dummy_udc: enabled ep-a (ep3in-intr) maxpacket 16 dummy_udc dummy_udc: disabled ep-a dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 dummy_udc dummy_udc: stale req = dd372840 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 dummy_udc dummy_udc: stale req = dd372840 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 dummy_udc dummy_udc: stale req = dd372840 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 dummy_udc dummy_udc: stale req = dd372840 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 dummy_udc dummy_udc: stale req = dd372840 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 usb 6-1: string descriptor 0 read error: -32 dummy_udc dummy_udc: stale req = dd372840 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 dummy_udc dummy_udc: stale req = dd372840 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 dummy_udc dummy_udc: stale req = dd372840 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 dummy_udc dummy_udc: stale req = dd372840 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 dummy_udc dummy_udc: stale req = dd372840 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 dummy_udc dummy_udc: stale req = dd372840 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 usb 6-1: string descriptor 0 read error: -32 usb 6-1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice gadgetfs: configuration #1 ### This seems to repeat till i kill qemu and see this in my syslog: ### BUG: warning at drivers/usb/gadget/dummy_hcd.c:49 8/dummy_free_request() [f8cf156c] dummy_free_request+0x41/0x4e [dummy _hcd] [f8cf7413] gadgetfs_unbind+0x47/0x50 [gadgetfs ] [f8cf13a6] usb_gadget_unregister_driver+0x79/0 xd2 [dummy_hcd] [f8cf721f] dev_release+0x11/0x44 [gadgetfs] [c015ae41] __fput+0x8a/0x13f [c01589aa] filp_close+0x4e/0x54 [c011ead3] put_files_struct+0x65/0xa7 [c011fa43] do_exit+0x1d1/0x71b [c0120003] sys_exit_group+0x0/0xd [c0127a6d] get_signal_to_deliver+0x395/0x3bc [c01023a6] do_notify_resume+0x71/0x5d7 [c0126fc1] group_send_sig_info+0x4e/0x56 [c0117778] default_wake_function+0x0/0xc [c0124657] do_gettimeofday+0x31/0xce [c0131ffc] sys_futex+0xdc/0xf1 [c0102d0a] work_notifysig+0x13/0x19 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: port status 0x00010100 has c hanges dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: port status 0x00010100 has c hanges usb 6-1: USB disconnect, address 5 ### Thanks... Tim Niemeyer signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: email vs forum
On 7/25/07, Sebastian Krause [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -E-mail: loading hunderts of e-mails with questions that have been discuted at least 300 times and hunderts of flaming e-mails, and maybe dozends of i need this and that app e-mails, just to see that there's no kews in the development of the navigation system (the info you where looking for) -Webforum: click on a shortcut in the favorites, log in, jump to category application development - navigation system, seeing that there's nothing new, closing the connection. Just that a few page views on a heavily bloated forum web site already means more traffic than a bzip2-compressed UUCP batch of 300 mails. And still, if you just only want to quickly view if there are new messages on the server, you're free to use IMAP. nice. And now explain this to your Grandmother. Because as Einstein said: you have only understood something whe you can explain it to your grandmother. For you it's easy to say that you simply have to use IMAP, but the average consumer that only needs to knoe the answer to his question probably isn't going to learn how to set it up. -- My corner of the web: http://ramsesoriginal.wordpress.com My dream, my world: http://abenu.wordpress.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Order related inquiries
On Jul 25, 2007, at 12:16 PM, Myk Melez wrote: rukhsana ansari wrote: Hi, I'd like to order another phone online but am unable to do so for the past several days. After I click on submit in step1, I don't get to step 2, just a blank page. Has anyone else encountered this problem? Any advice on how to proceed? That sounds like the problem folks in the US were having when they entered the full name of their state into the State/Province field instead of just the two-letter abbreviation (f.e. California instead of CA). If you're in the US, and you entered the full name of your state into that field, try entering its two-letter abbreviation. Otherwise, if you're in a different country, and you enter something into that field, try entering a variation of it (f.e. a standard postal abbreviation). Yes, this should work. Will ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re:...Order shipped: OpenMoko direct order
It shipped! Sorry to waste bandwidth, but my openmoko is in transit to my local UPS office! Now I wish I had paid for quicker shipping options, I used ground. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ...Order shipped: OpenMoko direct order
2007/7/25, Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It shipped! I'm so jealous I live abroad and have to wait another day to have my neo sent, and than wait some time, just to wait to pay tax at customs when neo arrives to Poland! ;-) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
AW: Re: email vs forum
The average customer won't wait for the few simple web clicks, at least not on a device that has only a GPRS connection. The Nokia E61 browser has a nice KB counter and it's incredible how huge current web sites have gotten. (and there is only limited hope of improvement, as we want the websites to have the functionality, don't we). Email download OTOH can happen in the background. And before you assert that this is not true ;), let me provide a simple example, www.sms.at. Just downloading the SMS send form (using a direct URL) is 300KB. Posting it takes around 150KB. Now that's a small and valid example, slashdot frontpage is way bigger. With GPRS speeds that means about 2 minutes before you can start typing, and over a minute to see that the SMS has been posted. In practice that's unusable even for a hardcore user like myself. btw, that process gets barely useable with UMTS speeds. Andreas -- Ursprüngl. Mitteil. -- Betreff:Re: email vs forum Von:ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED] Datum: 25.07.2007 13:44 On 7/25/07, Sebastian Krause [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -E-mail: loading hunderts of e-mails with questions that have been discuted at least 300 times and hunderts of flaming e-mails, and maybe dozends of i need this and that app e-mails, just to see that there's no kews in the development of the navigation system (the info you where looking for) -Webforum: click on a shortcut in the favorites, log in, jump to category application development - navigation system, seeing that there's nothing new, closing the connection. Just that a few page views on a heavily bloated forum web site already means more traffic than a bzip2-compressed UUCP batch of 300 mails. And still, if you just only want to quickly view if there are new messages on the server, you're free to use IMAP. nice. And now explain this to your Grandmother. Because as Einstein said: you have only understood something whe you can explain it to your grandmother. For you it's easy to say that you simply have to use IMAP, but the average consumer that only needs to knoe the answer to his question probably isn't going to learn how to set it up. -- My corner of the web: http://ramsesoriginal.wordpress.com My dream, my world: http://abenu.wordpress.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re: email vs forum
On 7/25/07, Andreas Kostyrka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The average customer won't wait for the few simple web clicks, at least not on a device that has only a GPRS connection. The Nokia E61 browser has a nice KB counter and it's incredible how huge current web sites have gotten. (and there is only limited hope of improvement, as we want the websites to have the functionality, don't we). Let's not forget the device also has wifi. Considering how slow gprs is, more likely than not, the average consumer will be surfing the web on a wifi connection... especially if they don't have unlimited gprs. Waiting for the page to load becomes a non issue. As has been mentioned a few times, the average user _does not_ want to know every single thing going on with the community and will only be interested in finding the information they need and moving on. Assuming the neo's browser is as good as the symbian browser, navigating a forum on the neo will be as painless as navigating a forum on a laptop. A forum caters to the end users who will go cross eyed if you mention pop3 or imap. Yes, yes, there are no end users to think of yet, but better this issue is resolved now than have this discussion in October. This ML is filled with people with technical know-how. If all this bandwith that has been wasted going back on forth on this issue had been shoveled into coming up with a solution, I bet there would be an efficient way to communicate between forum and ML by now. Throwing in my 10 cents. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: email vs forum (was Re: OK, the forum is coming..)
I've been mostly silent in this discussion (partially because it's taken me two days to catch up on it), but I have some thoughts/questions. The gist of the argument for email seems to be: 1. You can download all the messages and view them offline 2. Standalone email clients group messages by who they replied to instead of grouping by subject line and then by date 3. Forums suck (in your opinion) I understand that now, but I didn't before because: 1. I use gmail and am always online 2. I use gmail, which does not group messages based on replies 3. I check several forums daily and don't think they suck Forums work for me because: 1. I'm always online 2. Forums have categories. So, I never check the hardware category because I don't do low-level stuff. I watch some other category closely reading every message closely (and reply to some). I occasionally check out the other catagories as well, but only if I have free time. 3. If I post a question or response in a thread, I often have the forum notify me when there is a response. So, even if I don't have a lot of free time, I'll see an email come in saying someone has responded to something I'm directly involved in, so I will take a minute to see what the new message is. 4. In a forum, you can edit a post and easily format your message (I could use HTML in an email, but seems like a lot of people here view email in plaintext and my HTML would just annoy them). So, my questions: 1. Is there a way to get Gmail to thread the messages based on who it was in response to? 2. Is there a way to get a mailing list with categories? So that I can see that a particular category and not worry about the other stuff? I thought that was the point of separate mailing lists, but I get messages ranging from questions on ordering and shipping the phone to problems setting up a build environment to marketing ideas to feature suggests etc. The traffic is getting unmanageably large. (perhaps you manage better than me. but I don't have time to sift through 20 threads with 5-50 responses every day). The result is that I delete entire threads based on the subject. I will probably miss valuable information that might have even been relevant to me because of this. Any ideas on how to reduce the traffic or make it more relevant? -Steven On 7/24/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jul 24, 2007 at 10:45:32AM -0700, Daniel Robinson wrote: The fact that you are subscribed to 20 different mailing lists and you would find it difficult to read all of that information on 20 different forum's is your issue, and it is not the responsibility of this community to address. Probably it is. There are many people *in this community* in the same boat, and in general, those people will be the most knowledgeable and the most valuable sources of information, since they will tend to be more technically oriented, and be the most experienced internet users, and will be plugged in to more numerous sources of information (since email is indeed more efficient for being connected to many different information sources). To state, axiomatically, that mailing lists are more efficient is to attempt proof by assertion. Not trying to prove something -- trying to give benefit of long experience in similar situations. Email is substantially more efficient, because it is intrinsically more powerful. For example: 1) Essentially any functionality a forum can support can be supported by good email clients -- threading, sorting (or categorization), searching, restricted visibility. Converse isn't true (see below). 2) Forums cannot be viewed when you are offline, but email is a store and forward protocol, and works perfectly with only occasional connections to the internet -- you can read your email on a plane; you can't read a forum. 3) A forum, and indeed any web-based application by definition, is fundamentally restricted to the functions that can be provided by a browser. Web-based email suffers the same restrictions, but email clients can make full use of the OS interface. And contrariwise, email also supports pure text-based clients -- try using a text-based browser on typical forum applications for an exercise in frustration. 4) With email, you get to pick what you want to keep and don't want to keep. With a forum you have no control -- garbage stays there unless removed by an admin. 5) Email is accessible to a far larger population. Email supports both web-based and client based interaction. It supports text and graphical UIs. It gives a decent user experience over less bandwidth. It works better with mobile devices (eg blackberry). 6) Email has far better support for exchanging documents, media, and other kinds of information. (Web interfaces have good support for *display*, but lousy support for *sending*.) 7) When you get really good at using a particular email client, that real down to the fingers expertise generalizes to every email list. Forums
Re: email vs forum (was Re: OK, the forum is coming..)
On 7/25/07, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, my questions: 1. Is there a way to get Gmail to thread the messages based on who it was in response to? Yup, admins can set archiving at www.gmane.org. This way you will have archiving as well as threaded view regards VK ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: email vs forum (was Re: OK, the forum is coming..)
Um... That doesn't seem to get Gmail to thread the messages at all. You're solution is Just don't use Gmail. Duh!. That's not a valid answer to my question. Before you suggest it, the following is also an invalid response: use Outlook or Thunderbird and download all your messages via POP. I use Gmail. Accept it. Now, if you had a Greasemonkey script that made Gmail thread the messages, that would be acceptable. Thank you, -Steven On 7/25/07, vivek khurana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/25/07, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, my questions: 1. Is there a way to get Gmail to thread the messages based on who it was in response to? Yup, admins can set archiving at www.gmane.org. This way you will have archiving as well as threaded view regards VK ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
WARNING: replies to multiple messages Richard said: If they were interested in developing, they would follow the wiki as it is the only source for finding development specs, cvs links, walkthroughs, etc. Some of us are waiting for hardware... don't get me wrong, you can do a lot with an emulator, I've just been bitten more than enough times by it worked in sim. I can wait patiently for the hardware to get here, then I'll probably be much more active on the wiki On 7/24/07, Ben Burdette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, you need to have a forum that is set up to work like a mailing list. No editing, threaded discussion. Don't have a flat format. I don't see what's wrong with that. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Despising forums, I haven't really checked, but isn't this what gmane is for? I think it's already been made... and discussed to death -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re:PRESS: Hands-on with the OpenMoko Phone
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: Jason Elwell writes: http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/2007/07/hands-on-with-t.html Thanks for posting that -- certainly whetted my appetite. It's also interesting that the author of the article didn't quite understand which decisions have been made, and which are pending: he didn't seem to understand that next version *won't* have a camera (incidentally, I'm one of the people who would really like to see a camera added, but I've also got several friends who work in no-camera environments, who find trying to buy a cell phone nearly impossible these days). So true. I was staffing the booth at UbuntuLive. Many people were asking many questions, and the camera question of course was a very common one. My answer was the standard line, as discussed extensively and on the wiki: there is absolutely no camera in the October version. I did speculate that somewhere in the future it is possible that a Neo with camera will appear. I suspect that people misheard. By the way, it was inspiring to see the interest in that community. A lot had not heard about this project and were very excited. I had about 70 paper copies of my instructions for how to get from Ubuntu to Openmoko (in 5 easy steps!) (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User_talk:Michaelshiloh) and they were all taken. I encouraged everyone to join the community. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: PRESS: Hands-on with the OpenMoko Phone
On 7/25/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 24 Jul 2007, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: Jason Elwell writes: http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/2007/07/hands-on-with-t.html Thanks for posting that -- certainly whetted my appetite. It's also interesting that the author of the article didn't quite understand which decisions have been made, and which are pending: he didn't seem to understand that next version *won't* have a camera. Sadly, not only the writer of the article got it wrong. Some of the commenters on the Wired blog are following the lines of people who get it wrong. (for instance, the 'no music' comment... A mediaplayer was in the works, right?) (and the Moko/Moco == Bugger in Spanish is getting old too) :) By the way, it was inspiring to see the interest in that community. A lot had not heard about this project and were very excited. I had about 70 paper copies of my instructions for how to get from Ubuntu to Openmoko (in 5 easy steps!) (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User_talk:Michaelshiloh) and they were all taken. I encouraged everyone to join the community. Funny I see 7 steps. ;) It's great to hear that there are so many people interested in this thing. Gives me hope that this project has a chance. :) --- Marcel de Jong ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: External Handler Proof of Concept
I was playing around with the extensions framework (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Extension_Framework) over the weekend and have put together a proof of concept for the idea. The packages are not currently designed to run on the openmoko or integrate with the build process but on a standard linux distribution (until I get a 'phone, anyway). The distribution consists of three separate packages: * openmoko-extensionhandler - receives extension requests and passes them through the chain of extensions registered for that request * openmoko-extension-sample - sample extension that changes the parameters of an outgoing call * fakegsmd - simple client that generates an extension request for an outgoing call (as would be expected to be generated by gsmd) [snip] Anyway, if people would like to take a look at this it is available at http://www.devzero.net/openmoko/dist/omext.tar.gz - please give it a go and let me know what you think. Compiles, works. Probably a nice idea to see if I can get my Ruby code to talk to yours :) Ah, ListNames spots [org.freedesktop.DBus, org.openmoko.ef.eh.Gsmd, :1.17, :1.18] so I guess that should be easy enough :) And I'm trying to do the equivalent of this in Ruby, but failing: /* Start repeat for each handler */ obj = g_object_new (EXTENSIONHANDLERGSMD_TYPE, NULL); dbus_g_connection_register_g_object (connection, EXTENSIONHANDLERGSMD_PATH, obj); (NB: there's nothing repeating there. adapt comment, pls) I'll use dbus-monitor on your code and learn :) I'll think about the extension concept a bit more. The fact that you chose a scenario to modify a phone number is interesting. How about calling a person from a Contact? and then choosing VoIP or GSM by those extensions? (specifically, I do not think gsmd is the place where the call should originate, in the image you have on the Wiki). That is it for now, Bye, Kero. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why you won't find me in the forum much
Nick Johnson wrote: On 7/26/07, Rod Whitby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have not yet found a forum that allows you to have all new messages emailed to you, or to have *all* past messages since *exactly* the last message you saw provided to you by an RSS feed (all the feeds I've seen will give you the last N messages, or the last day's worth of messages, so if I go away for three days it is not possible to see all the messages I missed). That's not how RSS is intended to work, though. With a decent reader with offline support (such as Google Reader), you can still engage in that usage pattern (for reading, at least) - the reader polls the feed at regular intervals and stores the results until you read them. RSS feeds aren't really intended to be parsed/read directly as a substitute for a medium like email. Yeah, but you're assuming I'm using a platform that supports Google Gears. I use a Treo 650 phone :-) I agree RSS is not intended to work that way. So there is still no forum solution that I know of that allows me to download the full content of all posts I haven't read yet, and read them on a random small device (e.g. a Treo650, or a Nokia N800, or a Sharp Zaurus) that supports offline email reading and replying. -- Rod ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: PRESS: Hands-on with the OpenMoko Phone
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007, Marcel de Jong wrote: On 7/25/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 24 Jul 2007, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: Jason Elwell writes: http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/2007/07/hands-on-with-t.html Thanks for posting that -- certainly whetted my appetite. It's also interesting that the author of the article didn't quite understand which decisions have been made, and which are pending: he didn't seem to understand that next version *won't* have a camera. Sadly, not only the writer of the article got it wrong. Some of the commenters on the Wired blog are following the lines of people who get it wrong. (for instance, the 'no music' comment... A mediaplayer was in the works, right?) (and the Moko/Moco == Bugger in Spanish is getting old too) :) Indeed. I'm sure this happens with all such projects. Fortunately some of these allow comments. By the way, it was inspiring to see the interest in that community. A lot had not heard about this project and were very excited. I had about 70 paper copies of my instructions for how to get from Ubuntu to Openmoko (in 5 easy steps!) (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User_talk:Michaelshiloh) and they were all taken. I encouraged everyone to join the community. Funny I see 7 steps. ;) Ah. The first 5 get you to OpenMoko. The last two are for Qemu :-). I made that a separate list. The front of the page had just the first 5 steps, to keep it as simple as possible. The back had Qemu, pointers to the list, the wiki, references, and other details I forget. It's great to hear that there are so many people interested in this thing. Gives me hope that this project has a chance. :) Don't give up! M ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why you won't find me in the forum much
On 7/26/07, Mathew Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So there is still no forum solution that I know of that allows me to download the full content of all posts I haven't read yet, and read them on a random small device (e.g. a Treo650, or a Nokia N800, or a Sharp Zaurus) that supports offline email reading and replying. Sounds like a good nitch to hit. I would be interested in a program like that I wonder what it would take to make one? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community A phpBB addon accomplishing that might be useful for quite a few people. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: email vs forum
Ortwin Regel wrote: The screen size argument also doesn't work too well as the Neo has 640*480 which is plenty and an official forum would obviously make sure to fit well into that resolution. I'm sure it will fit well...but will you actually be able to read it without a magnifying glass? - John ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why you won't find me in the forum much
On 7/26/07, Mathew Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So there is still no forum solution that I know of that allows me to download the full content of all posts I haven't read yet, and read them on a random small device (e.g. a Treo650, or a Nokia N800, or a Sharp Zaurus) that supports offline email reading and replying. Sounds like a good nitch to hit. I would be interested in a program like that I wonder what it would take to make one? a browser extension based on google gears would be ideal for this. the extension could pull all new messages, based on date of last synchronisation, whenever an internet connection is detected and set read/unread flag it could be compatible with a huge number of forums/BBs quite easily, as most seem to be based on one of a few packages - phpbb, quicksilver, etc, - which will have identical syntax for logging on, accessing read/unread flags, etc. options would be available to, for example, not download pictures/other attachments, depending on the speed/cost of the users internet connection ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why you won't find me in the forum much
On 7/26/07, Rod Whitby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have not yet found a forum that allows you to have all new messages emailed to you, or to have *all* past messages since *exactly* the last message you saw provided to you by an RSS feed (all the feeds I've seen will give you the last N messages, or the last day's worth of messages, so if I go away for three days it is not possible to see all the messages I missed). That's not how RSS is intended to work, though. With a decent reader with offline support (such as Google Reader), you can still engage in that usage pattern (for reading, at least) - the reader polls the feed at regular intervals and stores the results until you read them. RSS feeds aren't really intended to be parsed/read directly as a substitute for a medium like email. -Nick Johnson ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why you won't find me in the forum much
So there is still no forum solution that I know of that allows me to download the full content of all posts I haven't read yet, and read them on a random small device (e.g. a Treo650, or a Nokia N800, or a Sharp Zaurus) that supports offline email reading and replying. Sounds like a good nitch to hit. I would be interested in a program like that I wonder what it would take to make one? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why you won't find me in the forum much
Robin Paulson wrote: On 7/26/07, Mathew Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So there is still no forum solution that I know of that allows me to download the full content of all posts I haven't read yet, and read them on a random small device (e.g. a Treo650, or a Nokia N800, or a Sharp Zaurus) that supports offline email reading and replying. Sounds like a good nitch to hit. I would be interested in a program like that I wonder what it would take to make one? a browser extension based on google gears would be ideal for this. the extension could pull all new messages, based on date of last synchronisation, whenever an internet connection is detected and set read/unread flag Google Gears doesn't run on my Treo650, nor on my Nokia N800, nor on my OpenMoko phone, nor on my random other phone, PDA, or internet tablet. So whilst that would be a great solution for someone reading from their laptop on the beach, it's no good for someone using offline reading on a handheld device when standing on a crowded bus or subway train. A key point in my mind about OpenMoko development, is not to fall into the trap of thinking oh, something works on my x86 laptop, therefore I can do it exactly the same way on my OpenMoko phone ... -- Rod ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: email vs forum
Giles Jones wrote: On 25 Jul 2007, at 23:09, John Seghers wrote: I'm sure it will fit well...but will you actually be able to read it without a magnifying glass? Having owned a VGA PDA with similar screen size I can say that the resolution helps with readability. Hopefully with adjustable font sizes people can tailor the resolution to match their eyesight. Hell, you could even have an eyesight test in the phone :) The resolution does help, and it should have some truly awesome font glyphs once you specify larger fonts...but that's just the problem when trying to read a forum formatted even for a VGA desktop... To have it formatted correctly, you have to use the pixel-to-height ratio that a desktop would use, which means you need the borgstrap Ian mentioned :) If you use large enough characters to read, it won't format well. - John ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why you won't find me in the forum much
Rod Whitby wrote: I have no problem with OpenMoko creating a forum for end users. As a developer, I won't be going there regularly. I might drop in now and again to see what the signal to noise ratio is. Why? Simply because the only time of the day where I can spare 60 minutes to catch up on project communications is on the bus to and from work. With mailing lists, I can download *all* my mail and read (and respond) to it offline on the bus. I read (well, mostly delete) over 1000 messages per day from at least 10 different development mailing lists via this method. I have not yet found a forum that allows you to have all new messages emailed to you, or to have *all* past messages since *exactly* the last message you saw provided to you by an RSS feed (all the feeds I've seen will give you the last N messages, or the last day's worth of messages, so if I go away for three days it is not possible to see all the messages I missed). So when an official forum is blessed by someone, please make sure it is a forum that has a *bidirectional* email gateway. Anything else is simply sub-standard for my usage patterns. NNTP is another option - and there are NNTP-email gateways since forever. There is also much web-based NNTP readers out there. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: qemu trouble...
Did you run modprobe gadgetfs default_uid=your uid before running QEMU? I get continual kernel ring messages (dmesg, also reported in syslog) of: dummy_udc dummy_udc: dequeued req deb73c40 from ep-c, len 4096, buf Additionally, there are three lines output from QEMU's stdout/err: s3c_udc_handle_packet: EP0 overrun pcf_write: automatic Fast-charge enabled s3c_udc_handle_packet: EP0 overrun However, if I go ahead and configure the USB interface and connect via ssh, it works: ifconfig usb0 inet 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0 ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED] - John PS: I found that the error output someone else was quoting, Warning: could not find USB gadgetfs near the beginning of QEMU's run is due to not having mounted /dev/gadget. Tim Niemeyer wrote: Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 6:29 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: qemu trouble... Hello I have also some problems with qemu. I have build everything with the MokoMakefile and it works really nice! ;-) But when i want to use the gadged system to ssh into my moko, i get some trouble... I figured out that i had to recompile my default Debian Etch Kernel an did it. Now it seems to be all like in the wiki describes: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU#Setting_up_USB_connectio n Has anyone an idea for me? Is something wrong? But when i then do the usb_add gadget:1 command the qemu repeats: ## # gadget_read: event error: 4 gadget_read: event error: 4 gadget_read: event error: 4 gadget_read: event error: 4 gadget_read: event error: 4 ## # In my Syslog i can see many entrys: ## # dummy_udc dummy_udc: binding gadget driver 'gadgetfs' gadgetfs: bound to dummy_udc driver dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: port status 0x00010101 has changes dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: port status 0x00010101 has changes dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: port status 0x00100503 has changes usb 6-1: new high speed USB device using dummy_hcd and address 5 gadgetfs: connected gadgetfs: disconnected dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: port status 0x00100503 has changes dummy_udc dummy_udc: set_address = 5 gadgetfs: connected dummy_udc dummy_udc: enabled ep-a (ep3in-intr) maxpacket 16 dummy_udc dummy_udc: disabled ep-a dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 dummy_udc dummy_udc: stale req = dd372840 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 dummy_udc dummy_udc: stale req = dd372840 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 dummy_udc dummy_udc: stale req = dd372840 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 dummy_udc dummy_udc: stale req = dd372840 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 dummy_udc dummy_udc: stale req = dd372840 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 usb 6-1: string descriptor 0 read error: -32 dummy_udc dummy_udc: stale req = dd372840 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 dummy_udc dummy_udc: stale req = dd372840 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 dummy_udc dummy_udc: stale req = dd372840 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 dummy_udc dummy_udc: stale req = dd372840 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 dummy_udc dummy_udc: stale req = dd372840 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 dummy_udc dummy_udc: stale req = dd372840 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: ep ep0 halted, urb e912d5c0 usb 6-1: string descriptor 0 read error: -32 usb 6-1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice gadgetfs: configuration #1 ## # This seems to repeat till i kill qemu and see this in my syslog: ## # BUG: warning at drivers/usb/gadget/dummy_hcd.c:49 8/dummy_free_request() [f8cf156c] dummy_free_request+0x41/0x4e [dummy _hcd] [f8cf7413] gadgetfs_unbind+0x47/0x50 [gadgetfs ] [f8cf13a6] usb_gadget_unregister_driver+0x79/0 xd2 [dummy_hcd] [f8cf721f] dev_release+0x11/0x44 [gadgetfs] [c015ae41] __fput+0x8a/0x13f [c01589aa] filp_close+0x4e/0x54 [c011ead3] put_files_struct+0x65/0xa7 [c011fa43] do_exit+0x1d1/0x71b [c0120003] sys_exit_group+0x0/0xd [c0127a6d] get_signal_to_deliver+0x395/0x3bc [c01023a6] do_notify_resume+0x71/0x5d7 [c0126fc1] group_send_sig_info+0x4e/0x56 [c0117778] default_wake_function+0x0/0xc [c0124657] do_gettimeofday+0x31/0xce [c0131ffc] sys_futex+0xdc/0xf1 [c0102d0a] work_notifysig+0x13/0x19 dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: port status 0x00010100 has c hanges dummy_hcd dummy_hcd: port status 0x00010100 has c hanges usb 6-1: USB disconnect, address 5 ## # Thanks... Tim Niemeyer ___ OpenMoko
Re: qemu trouble...
On 25 Jul 2007, at 23:42, John Seghers wrote: Did you run modprobe gadgetfs default_uid=your uid before running QEMU? I get continual kernel ring messages (dmesg, also reported in syslog) of: dummy_udc dummy_udc: dequeued req deb73c40 from ep-c, len 4096, buf Additionally, there are three lines output from QEMU's stdout/err: s3c_udc_handle_packet: EP0 overrun pcf_write: automatic Fast-charge enabled s3c_udc_handle_packet: EP0 overrun However, if I go ahead and configure the USB interface and connect via ssh, it works: ifconfig usb0 inet 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0 ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED] - John PS: I found that the error output someone else was quoting, Warning: could not find USB gadgetfs near the beginning of QEMU's run is due to not having mounted /dev/gadget. It also says can't find gadgetfs if you don't have it specified in the config.h file before compiling qemu. Interesting that the IP you use for usb0 is 192.168.0.200, then ssh into 202. I thought this was a typo then considered that it was deliberate. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Why you won't find me in the forum much
I have no problem with OpenMoko creating a forum for end users. As a developer, I won't be going there regularly. I might drop in now and again to see what the signal to noise ratio is. Why? Simply because the only time of the day where I can spare 60 minutes to catch up on project communications is on the bus to and from work. With mailing lists, I can download *all* my mail and read (and respond) to it offline on the bus. I read (well, mostly delete) over 1000 messages per day from at least 10 different development mailing lists via this method. I have not yet found a forum that allows you to have all new messages emailed to you, or to have *all* past messages since *exactly* the last message you saw provided to you by an RSS feed (all the feeds I've seen will give you the last N messages, or the last day's worth of messages, so if I go away for three days it is not possible to see all the messages I missed). So when an official forum is blessed by someone, please make sure it is a forum that has a *bidirectional* email gateway. Anything else is simply sub-standard for my usage patterns. Note that nowhere in this message have I said that people should not have a forum - I have my own personal opinions on that, but it's really up to the OpenMoko core team to determine what the communication pathways are for this project (that's why they are the core team - to make decision like this where there is no clear and obvious technical argument in one direction or the other). -- Rod Whitby -- MokoMakefile author ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why you won't find me in the forum much
On 7/26/07, Rod Whitby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So there is still no forum solution that I know of that allows me to download the full content of all posts I haven't read yet, and read them on a random small device (e.g. a Treo650, or a Nokia N800, or a Sharp Zaurus) that supports offline email reading and replying. Sounds like a good nitch to hit. I would be interested in a program like that I wonder what it would take to make one? a browser extension based on google gears would be ideal for this. the extension could pull all new messages, based on date of last synchronisation, whenever an internet connection is detected and set read/unread flag Google Gears doesn't run on my Treo650, nor on my Nokia N800, nor on my OpenMoko phone, nor on my random other phone, PDA, or internet tablet. So whilst that would be a great solution for someone reading from their laptop on the beach, it's no good for someone using offline reading on a handheld device when standing on a crowded bus or subway train. A key point in my mind about OpenMoko development, is not to fall into the trap of thinking oh, something works on my x86 laptop, therefore I can do it exactly the same way on my OpenMoko phone ... it's open-source (BSD license), so all the code is available to build on whatever environment/architecture you want (as far as my limited understanding of portable code/interpretation of the gears wiki goes, anyway) http://code.google.com/p/google-gears/ i might look into this - gears piqued my interest a while back, but i never had a suitable project for it ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Duplicate Message Remover for Thunderbird
Hey Moko-Magicians... For those of us using Thunderbird, you can download a Duplicate Message Remover add-on from here: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/956 I just used it and took 433 messages down to like 187 just in my OpenMoko in-folder alone. Hope that helps some...Cassj --- when mind control works you won't know it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: email vs forum
John Seghers wrote: Ortwin Regel wrote: The screen size argument also doesn't work too well as the Neo has 640*480 which is plenty and an official forum would obviously make sure to fit well into that resolution. I'm sure it will fit well...but will you actually be able to read it without a magnifying glass? Diddn't you get the Neo Borgstrap? Holds the neo 15cm in front of an eye of your choice, with a lens in front of it to bring it in focus. Seriously though - 16*10 is about the resolution of text on it most times, and have it sanely readable at normal phone distances. If you bring it very close, 32*20 is readable. You _can_ do 80*25 - but... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: camera? yes please! ..
.. count me in for a definite yes-vote for the camera, i believe it is an excellent user interface .. Video-based UI is indeed a seducing concept, and the neo could be a great experimentation device. However this requires the camera to see you while operating, which is geometrically opposed to regular image taking (sorry for the bad english). Indeed, a rotating barrel could be an answear to avoiding multiple cameras (i'm pretty sure i'm not the only one to be pissed off when you see these dualcam 5mm thin phones, one cam only for visio and the only one for pictures). What could be interesting in the future would be a 360° lens on top of the device -- yes they are coming (http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/cx_news/vol34/featuring2.html). With software-based remapping, you get a fake pan-tilt video camera that is able to see the front and the back... To me the ideal neo is the one you can buy parts for and plug them into, depending on the situation. Cheap parts, easy plug in/out (like prototyping boards). Be it an ethernet network card, an usb hub, a laser keyboard projector, a camera (not to mention that if you can change the camera, you can change the optics capabilities with different lenses/specs), a *real* microphone, a vga output or a mini-printer... Possibilities are endless to make the neo become the next swiss knife :) Cheers Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: email vs forum
On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 03:39:08PM +0200, ramsesoriginal wrote: nice. And now explain this to your Grandmother. Because as Einstein said: you have only understood something whe you can explain it to your grandmother. For you it's easy to say that you simply have to use IMAP, but the average consumer that only needs to knoe the answer to his question probably isn't going to learn how to set it up. I don't know what kind of grandmother you have, but not even my mother would participate in either an OpenMoko mailing list or a forum. If your grandmother is anything like mine, the first time she has an issue or a question, she will call me (you) and you will have to find the answer. And the average user of an OpenMoKo phone (At least at this stage in the game) is going to have to setup e-mail anyway. If the e-mail reader on the platform is any good, it will be able to handle multiple accounts and filter incoming/outgoing messages anyway. -KW ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: email vs forum
On 25 Jul 2007, at 23:09, John Seghers wrote: ficial forum would obviously make sure to fit well into that resolution. I'm sure it will fit well...but will you actually be able to read it without a magnifying glass? Having owned a VGA PDA with similar screen size I can say that the resolution helps with readability. Hopefully with adjustable font sizes people can tailor the resolution to match their eyesight. Hell, you could even have an eyesight test in the phone :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Appeals to Linux hardware hackers?
Am 25.07.2007 um 21:14 schrieb Giles Jones: Hi, I was thinking, there's a few people who are spending time hacking away at HTC devices to get Linux running on them. While it is commendable they would be better to help us with OpenMoko. Maybe we could appeal to them if we're not already on their radar. Thoughts? Hm. I think it is just a few. And, IMHO their motivation is different: hacking closed hardware is a lot of fun. That is quite different from developing software for open hardware. It might be as difficult as to convince you that it is a lot of fun to hack a HTC device and you should better help them than using an open hardware. So, there is no chance to change the appeal. It is like the Linux vs. *BSD discussion. Each project has its contributors. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Order related inquiries
Thanks. This worked for me. I was using the state abbreviation along with the postal code. -Rukhsana William Lai wrote: On Jul 25, 2007, at 12:16 PM, Myk Melez wrote: rukhsana ansari wrote: Hi, I'd like to order another phone online but am unable to do so for the past several days. After I click on submit in step1, I don't get to step 2, just a blank page. Has anyone else encountered this problem? Any advice on how to proceed? That sounds like the problem folks in the US were having when they entered the full name of their state into the State/Province field instead of just the two-letter abbreviation (f.e. California instead of CA). If you're in the US, and you entered the full name of your state into that field, try entering its two-letter abbreviation. Otherwise, if you're in a different country, and you enter something into that field, try entering a variation of it (f.e. a standard postal abbreviation). Yes, this should work. Will ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Appeals to Linux hardware hackers?
On 25 Jul 2007, at 20:21, Jay Vaughan wrote: For sure the efforts of the Zaurus crowd, the GP2X crowd, the OLPC crowd, the Nokia 770 crowd, and the iPod Linux crowd can be exploited with OpenMoko .. so much diversity is inevitable, and good imho .. True, but why buy a device designed for Windows Mobile that is closed and then spend hours reverse engineering and poking about when there's a phone while is open? Of course, some people like poking about and reverse engineering :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
On 25 Jul 2007, at 19:56, Jeff Andros wrote: WARNING: replies to multiple messages Richard said: If they were interested in developing, they would follow the wiki as it is the only source for finding development specs, cvs links, walkthroughs, etc. Some of us are waiting for hardware... don't get me wrong, you can do a lot with an emulator, I've just been bitten more than enough times by it worked in sim. I can wait patiently for the hardware to get here, then I'll probably be much more active on the wiki Same here, I can't transfer anything onto the phone yet. Tried a few kernel versions but can't get the USB networking working. If anyone has tell me your kernel version and email a kernel config file? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Appeals to Linux hardware hackers?
Hi, I was thinking, there's a few people who are spending time hacking away at HTC devices to get Linux running on them. While it is commendable they would be better to help us with OpenMoko. Maybe we could appeal to them if we're not already on their radar. Thoughts? Giles. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
