Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)
Fwiw, my take on that is @ http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ Cheers, -- :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
The glamo chip and its future
I was a fan of the openmoko idea even when it was announced at first. Now when the first real device was announced I was thinking about buying one but then I realized the situaltion with the 3D chip which I read was a very big design mistake. At least this is what I read, since neither read 2D or 3D acceleration is possible. So I wonder why this was done that way (since the older model had a much larger bandwidth), and whether it's changed for the next release. I mean e.g. games (3D games, or emulators) are IMHO an important part of the functionality of such a smartphone. Unfortunately, in the wiki wish list nobody complained about this and I didn't find anything on the home page, while this is probably the biggest concern of the users as far as what I've read. regards Michgael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)
-[ Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 08:25:04AM +0200, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer ] http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ Interresting. Why not post this kind of though here instead of on a blog, BTW ? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Let us impact the material world
There is also a nice feature that could be used with SMS: imagine that the SMS is automatically shortened (eg by abbreviating words and stuff like that) than it's compressed before being sent; I tried once and there should be libraries that could fit the dictionary needed for extraction + 500 characters in 302 chars... It means 2 SMS instead of 3 or more :) 2008/6/28 Paul Wouters [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Fri, 27 Jun 2008, Nelson Castillo wrote: I think encrypted messages are crucial for freedom. I also think most people don't know how easy it is for others to see what they send through the networks. I cannot wait to see those Encrypted messages traveling free through _their_ networks to deliver _our_ messages. That means: - Phase out SMS in favour of IM (SMS char limit makes crypto hard, cheaper too) - Use OTR with IM (http://otr.cypherpunks.ca) I am not sure at the current state of IM clients, but there are python bindings for OTR at http://pyotr.pentabarf.de/ I will go at it as soon as I can order my Freerunner in Canada Paul ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
Can we just disable glamo with software and use it only when profitable? On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 1:46 AM, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/27/08 Mikko Rauhala wrote: On pe, 2008-06-27 at 13:56 +0200, Lucas Bonnet wrote: Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I encourage you to get involved today. We need your help. Waiting for GTA03 is a possibility of course, but keep in mind how long it took us to go from 01 to 02. Sure, how can we help? If I may interject, I would presume Sean here is talking about buying what's available now (instead of next year, even with the GTA03 not being a major improvement anyway in most respects), and, you know, running with it. Exactly. We need to sell phones to stay in business and continue these ideas. So think of your USD $399 as a donation, if you like, towards your GTA03 ;-) -Sean ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- - Bu mesaj UTF-8 ile kodlanmıştır - Atilla Filiz Technische Universiteit Eindhoven Embedded Systems, Master's Programme ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No WLAN AP functionality
Why can't we use madwifi? I thought our wifi chips were atheros. On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 1:12 AM, Rod Whitby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Crane, Matthew wrote: But if you can plug a usb wifi stick which the kernel does support AP mode you could then use the internal wifi as the uplink. I'm finding it difficult to source a cheap usb wifi stick that Linux supports in AP mode. Do you have an example of one that you know works in this way, and has Linux drivers available for armel (which immediately cuts out any madwifi drivers due to eabi) ? -- Rod ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- - Bu mesaj UTF-8 ile kodlanmıştır - Atilla Filiz Technische Universiteit Eindhoven Embedded Systems, Master's Programme ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)
On 28 Jun 2008, at 03:05, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:11:06 +0100 Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On 27 Jun 2008, at 19:01, Ron K. Jeffries wrote: Can someone explain the rationale for the decision to switch from the original GTK based OpenMoko to QT based version known as April Software Update (ASU)? Rasterman is the rationale, as far as I can make out. i had nothing to do with it. i, in fact suggested to keep the current gtk apps as-is I apologise. It just seemed that this change occurred without explanation when you came on board. A message you posted some time ago evangelising E16 (??) firmed the impression that the new environment was your innovation. just improve the desktop environment. others at openmoko insisted even on just qtopia - no x11. they wanted qtopia because for them it worked. we ended up with a compromise of a port of qtopia on x11 - but then also needing a custom wm. I have to say that I find it a bit odd running X11 on a mobile phone - a WM wouldn't be required without it - when an alternative is possible. In fact, as far as I can ascertain an alternative already exists. X11 seems logical to me for desktop computers, but not for a device which will only ever have one main window on the screen at a time. I had mistakenly understood earlier Openmoko builds to be non- X11 (i.e. qtopia-ish?) Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)
Thanks, This is the most to the point explenation that I have read so far! If I could code, I would try help you on the FSO. On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 8:25 AM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fwiw, my take on that is @ http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ Cheers, -- :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No WLAN AP functionality
la, 2008-06-28 kello 11:31 +0200, Atilla Filiz kirjoitti: Why can't we use madwifi? I thought our wifi chips were atheros. All Atheros are not created equal. Madwifi is for Atheros' a5k series softmac laptop chips. This is a 6k series hardmac embedded chip. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Openmoko and google trends
Check google trends: http://www.google.com/trends?q=Openmoko%2C++FreeRunnerctab=0geo=alldate=allsort=0 I would have expected at least a small spike for the last few days. Maybe we should all try to actively promote the FreeRunner through a few channels? It's in our own interest... y ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The glamo chip and its future
I would like to know more about that too. Especially I would like to know how real devices work - are they slow or not? I don't really need 3d games or anything, but i don't want my smartphone to be slow. Also is it possible in theory to play youtube videos? On 6/28/08, Michael Stather [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was a fan of the openmoko idea even when it was announced at first. Now when the first real device was announced I was thinking about buying one but then I realized the situaltion with the 3D chip which I read was a very big design mistake. At least this is what I read, since neither read 2D or 3D acceleration is possible. So I wonder why this was done that way (since the older model had a much larger bandwidth), and whether it's changed for the next release. I mean e.g. games (3D games, or emulators) are IMHO an important part of the functionality of such a smartphone. Unfortunately, in the wiki wish list nobody complained about this and I didn't find anything on the home page, while this is probably the biggest concern of the users as far as what I've read. regards Michgael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
On Saturday June 28, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was thinking of asking the very same thing. When dialing or using a calculator or sending a text message, the glamo would only slow us down. Or am I mistaken? Maybe it's a very stupid question (I presume if it were possible such a trivial feat would already be implemented). The glamo is the video controller. If you disable the glamo, you don't get any picture. NeilBrown y On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Atilla Filiz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can we just disable glamo with software and use it only when profitable? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The glamo chip and its future
I have no idea if it will be slow but youtube video's should be possible. Standard youtube is 320x240 (but they are experimenting with higher resolution) . Maybe you would have to encode it to mpeg-4 though, don't know if it will work through flash. nice post about the video acceleration: http://unadventure.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/accelerating-in-my-pocket/ y On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 12:17 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to know more about that too. Especially I would like to know how real devices work - are they slow or not? I don't really need 3d games or anything, but i don't want my smartphone to be slow. Also is it possible in theory to play youtube videos? On 6/28/08, Michael Stather [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was a fan of the openmoko idea even when it was announced at first. Now when the first real device was announced I was thinking about buying one but then I realized the situaltion with the 3D chip which I read was a very big design mistake. At least this is what I read, since neither read 2D or 3D acceleration is possible. So I wonder why this was done that way (since the older model had a much larger bandwidth), and whether it's changed for the next release. I mean e.g. games (3D games, or emulators) are IMHO an important part of the functionality of such a smartphone. Unfortunately, in the wiki wish list nobody complained about this and I didn't find anything on the home page, while this is probably the biggest concern of the users as far as what I've read. regards Michgael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The glamo chip and its future
la, 2008-06-28 kello 09:43 +0200, Michael Stather kirjoitti: At least this is what I read, since neither read 2D or 3D acceleration is possible. That is quite an overstatement of the problems. At least Xv and mpeg4 accelerations are possible with available software. I don't know exactly how much accelerated support there otherwise is, but at least seems from public statements that basic stuff like blitting/solid fills/rotation etc is there. So please, while the Glamo is no panacea, and the bandwidth issues are real enough, no FUD that nothing is possible with it. Also, while this is purely speculative, balrog-kun (the guy responsible for mpeg-4 acceleration) at least at some point had some ambitions on doing basic 3d acceleration support, but that would probably require running in QVGA mode even if that pans out. (The Glamo is not really designed for VGA displays even if it can drive one.) So I wonder why this was done that way (since the older model had a much larger bandwidth), and whether it's changed for the next release. It is public information that the Glamo is off the table for GTA03 due to it not panning out quite as well as was originally hoped. As for why, I can only speculate. The short specs without the caveats were attractive enough, they got permission to do a free driver, and the Glamo provided an extra SD controller (though limited by its bus) which was necessary with the wifi chip requiring one. I mean e.g. games (3D games, or emulators) are IMHO an important part of the functionality of such a smartphone. For fast-paced games you might want to use QVGA mode to alleviate the bandwidth issues, but IMAO on such a small screen that isn't a bad deal anyway (for fast-paced games spesifically). Something like scumm adventure games should be fine in higher resolution, but that isn't a promise as I don't have a GTA02 myself yet (the order _is_ in :). Realize that the GTA03 will apparently be dumb framebuffer again, like GTA01. While that speeds up pure blitting to the screen from the main memory, do not expect wonders from it either. Where future devices go, we shall see. The reality is that most high-end embedded graphics stuff is closed as hell. What with Android and even Nokia announcing preliminary plans for Linux phones, there are quite enough high-profile companies doing this stuff with no regard for real openness (witness Android FAQ and partner list, and Nokia's Maemo). I for one would like OpenMoko to differentiate in this respect and stay the course even with the difficulties it may pose. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)
On Saturday June 28, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have to say that I find it a bit odd running X11 on a mobile phone - a WM wouldn't be required without it - when an alternative is possible. In fact, as far as I can ascertain an alternative already exists. X11 seems logical to me for desktop computers, but not for a device which will only ever have one main window on the screen at a time. I had mistakenly understood earlier Openmoko builds to be non- X11 (i.e. qtopia-ish?) Saying we don't need X11 because we only have one window is a bit like we don't need a multitasking operating system, because we only have one user. It just isn't that simple. If all that X11 does for us is to allow switching between concurrently running programs, written against different toolkits, then that is a very useful thing. I would hate for someone to be turned of writing an app for Openmoko because the toolkit they liked wasn't supported, so I think it is very important to support qt and gtk (and tk and ...). The only way to support multiple toolkits today is with an X11 server. X11 allows freedom of toolkit choice, and freedom is what we are all about. NeilBrown ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko and google trends
Am 28.06.2008 um 12:09 schrieb Yorick Moko: Check google trends: http://www.google.com/trends?q=Openmoko%2C++FreeRunnerctab=0geo=alldate=allsort=0 I would have expected at least a small spike for the last few days. I have seen a big spike when switching to view the last 30 days. (date=all = date=mtd) http://www.google.com/trends?q=Openmoko%2C++FreeRunnerctab=0geo=alldate=mtdsort=0 Nikolaus___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The glamo chip and its future
la, 2008-06-28 kello 12:25 +0200, Yorick Moko kirjoitti: I have no idea if it will be slow but youtube video's should be possible. Yeah, their standard videos are such low resolution and quality it could well be possible reasonably... And also: Maybe you would have to encode it to mpeg-4 though, don't know if it will work through flash. Youtube does provide higher quality mp4 video nowadays; you can get at the download links from eg. keepvid.com service. So if the mp4 files downloadable are ones that the Glamo chip can decode, that's our solution; just code a youtube viewer that shows the mp4 versions. (Somebody with a Freerunner please feel free to verify if this works :) nice post about the video acceleration: http://unadventure.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/accelerating-in-my-pocket/ Indeed. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The glamo chip and its future
Couldn't the glamo just be driven with a highter bandwidth, or is this a chipset limitation? And if the chip just isn't capable of performing better, what about the idea to have plain framebuffer access only through the processor but include a CLPD/FPGA in the design which may be loaded on the fly with a firmware for a simple 3D chip. I was involved in a project of a game console, with 2D acceleration only, but IMHO simple 3D acceleration isn't that hard. And this would have the advantage that the 3D core is fully open and can even be improved with optimisations and more features. I think through its openness openmoko could also become quite popular for gamers, since there exist many good open-source games which could be ported easily to the platform if there was hardware acceleration (OpenGL ES or even better plain OpenGL). Thinking of consumers, they want fancy 3D effects and games, and since all options nowadays are either j2ME commercial games or smartphones which have all a rather small community or are closed like the iPhone, this could becomne another real advantage of the openmoko platform. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)
Ron - I think a lot of people hate QT so much that they don't even see anymore that GTK+ still lives and grows as before! Yes, we brought Qt/Qtopia into Openmoko, on top of X so it can co- exist with GTK+ and EFL. There never has been a 'GTK+ stack'. What is a 'GTK+ stack'? Hopefully the GTK+ telephony applications can be connected to Mickey's new framework, as roh suggested yesterday. Hopefully all the work raster does will lead to great new EFL-based applications. Edje looks very interesting. Qtopia provides everybody with another option to do telephony. Some people may dislike it, well they can ignore it and continue with GTK+ instead. OpenEmbedded is what holds Openmoko together, and there will always be lots of images. If anybody expects Openmoko to force a certain API upon its users, you are wrong! WinMobile may be forcing some APIs as 'default' APIs upon you, so does Symbian, iPhone, etc. Openmoko won't. GTK+ is not Openmoko's official/default graphical toolkit, never was and never will be. Openmoko's mission is not to teach the world how great GTK+ is. If GTK+ is good, great GTK+ applications will emerge, and usage of GTK+ will grow. This can be driven by YOU as much as by the few full-time Openmoko employees. Please help us improving our GTK + applications today! Right now there is a lot of momentum behind EFL/Edje at Openmoko, some of the new applications we are developing (Assassin, Exposure, Splinter) are based on that. If you think we are switching to QT - why are we then developing our new applications using EFL? Hope this provides some background information. Answering your questions: Can someone explain the rationale for the decision to switch from the original GTK based OpenMoko to QT based version known as April Software Update (ASU)? No switch. QTopia looked interesting because it gives us a fully functioning set of telephony applications, Trolltech GPL'ed it, and we didn't like the fact that the only way to get access to it was via the framebuffer- based builds Trolltech was distributing. We wanted to have QTopia functionality on top of X, so it could co-exist with GTK+ and EFL, i.e. so that GTK+ applications (tangoGPS and others) would _NOT_ be pushed aside by Qtopia. Our main direction is not QT, it's EFL. As an observer, it's my impression that ASU represents a significant architectural change that somehow, Wham! Bang! just happened. Wrong. Qtopia on framebuffer, pushing all GTK+ work aside, would have been a major architectural change. Our change is very minor, we just port Qtopia on top of X so it becomes another option. Actually replacing matchbox with the Enlightenment window manager was a bigger architectural change, ask raster about that. I do admit that we have underestimated the degree of antipathy against Qtopia that led people to stop listening as soon as they heard the word 'Qtopia' or 'Trolltech'. :-) Best Regards, Wolfgang On Jun 27, 2008, at 8:01 PM, Ron K. Jeffries wrote: Can someone explain the rationale for the decision to switch from the original GTK based OpenMoko to QT based version known as April Software Update (ASU)? As an observer, it's my impression that ASU represents a significant architectural change that somehow, Wham! Bang! just happened. Transparency is a virtue. g Ron K. Jeffries http://www.retaggr.com/Card/rjeffries ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The glamo chip and its future
I like the 'idea' of something programmable like a CPLD/FPGA, but I suspect adding one would be too costly, they're not cheap as far as IC's go. Ben. Michael Stather wrote: Couldn't the glamo just be driven with a highter bandwidth, or is this a chipset limitation? And if the chip just isn't capable of performing better, what about the idea to have plain framebuffer access only through the processor but include a CLPD/FPGA in the design which may be loaded on the fly with a firmware for a simple 3D chip. I was involved in a project of a game console, with 2D acceleration only, but IMHO simple 3D acceleration isn't that hard. And this would have the advantage that the 3D core is fully open and can even be improved with optimisations and more features. I think through its openness openmoko could also become quite popular for gamers, since there exist many good open-source games which could be ported easily to the platform if there was hardware acceleration (OpenGL ES or even better plain OpenGL). Thinking of consumers, they want fancy 3D effects and games, and since all options nowadays are either j2ME commercial games or smartphones which have all a rather small community or are closed like the iPhone, this could becomne another real advantage of the openmoko platform. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA01 Gllin ipkg
Did you download it then scp it to the gta01? If you used wget on the gta01 you have not got the file, only the agreement webpage. The file should be 1.9MB in size. BTW I got the file and opkg still will not install it, reports error 4. Regards, Jon Dan Staley wrote: Hi everyone, I recently got my GTA01 and am trying to get the gllin ipkg from http://3rdparty.downloads.openmoko.org/gllin/ . However, everytime I download it, it says it is corrupted. Does anyone know another place I can try to download it? Thanks On Thu, 2008-02-14 at 15:58 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Send community mailing list submissions to community@lists.openmoko.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of community digest... email message attachment Forwarded Message From: fredthecat [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: List for OpenMoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org To: List for OpenMoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Exit of OpenMoko Window System Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:02:11 -0500 Dear All I was playing around with a fully emulated QEMU OpenMoko system (from a built system using MokoMakefile as documented in the Wiki), and at one point I hit the space bar (it the emulated Linux OpenMoko system received the keypress). When I did this, it exited the windows system (as if it had crashed or just plain died), but dropped me to a command line login ... and I could happily login as root and use regular commands. My question is this: did I hit a but and crash the UI, or did I hit some magic (to me) sequence that is intended to exit the UI? regards Martin email message attachment Forwarded Message From: Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: List for OpenMoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org To: community@lists.openmoko.org community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: LiMo article in Washington Post Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:46:57 -0500 Informative article about LiMO in the Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/14/AR2008021401518.html?wpisrc=newsletterwpisrc=newsletterwpisrc=newsletter It may require site registration, but it is a very light-weight approach. I am interested in understanding LimO and how it does or does not relate to Open Moko. thanks -- Ron K. Jeffries http://blog.eronj.com email message attachment Forwarded Message From: Robin Paulson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: List for OpenMoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org To: List for OpenMoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:53:28 -0500 On 14/02/2008, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Kyle for a great summary of the work being discussed on the kernel ML. I am simply not able to keep up with all the lists and very much appreciate your helping out here. Michael indeed, thanks for the info kyle. i've been avidly following the dev cycle of the software/hardware here, and it's good to see some technical info from the kernel ML, 95% of which is over my head would it be possible for someone - michael, kyle? - to give an update on this kind of info on a regular basis? i'm sure there are plenty of others eager for technical progress, but who are unlikely to venture on the kernel list? Kyle Bassett wrote: I have been following the Suspended Mode thread in the kernel ML and they have made amazing progress within the last week. As GTA02A5 currently stands, a cold suspend mode (just GSM in standby awaiting incoming call/sms), could result in 20 days of standby! For those technical people on this list, they have gotten GTA02A5 in suspend using ~2.07mA @ 3.7v (fully charged batt). If the GTA02 will have a 1200mAh battery, that's ~24 days of suspend runtime in a perfect world. The goal is set around 1mA-2mA of suspend current draw, with best case scenario suspend time of ~50 days (sure beats 4 hours... :-P ). There are also issues such as internal battery discharge, ~30% over 90 days for one of the packs that is being considered, which will reduce the final suspend runtime available. Currently, work continues attempting to shave even more power consumption from a sleeping Freerunner. Individual power consumption of the different internal devices is still taking place, that way any user can approximate their battery lifetime (but each internal device has a few different states, making this a
Re: Let us impact the material world
may be can use SMS control the remote NEO like send #neo_command shutdown -h now then the neo poweroff : ) Francesco Cat wrote: There is also a nice feature that could be used with SMS: imagine that the SMS is automatically shortened (eg by abbreviating words and stuff like that) than it's compressed before being sent; I tried once and there should be libraries that could fit the dictionary needed for extraction + 500 characters in 302 chars... It means 2 SMS instead of 3 or more :) 2008/6/28 Paul Wouters [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Fri, 27 Jun 2008, Nelson Castillo wrote: I think encrypted messages are crucial for freedom. I also think most people don't know how easy it is for others to see what they send through the networks. I cannot wait to see those Encrypted messages traveling free through _their_ networks to deliver _our_ messages. That means: - Phase out SMS in favour of IM (SMS char limit makes crypto hard, cheaper too) - Use OTR with IM (http://otr.cypherpunks.ca) I am not sure at the current state of IM clients, but there are python bindings for OTR at http://pyotr.pentabarf.de/ I will go at it as soon as I can order my Freerunner in Canada Paul ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The glamo chip and its future
Hi. Michael Stather schrieb: So I wonder why this was done that way (since the older model had a much larger bandwidth), and whether it's changed for the next release. I mean e.g. games (3D games, or emulators) are IMHO an important part of the functionality of such a smartphone. KoboDeluxe runs fine on Neo1973 as well as the FreeRunner. Sure no 3D but it is fast enough for 640x480 and 2D gaming IMHO. Please also note that Worldforge, Flightgear, Nexuiz, bzflag et al have not been integrated into OpenEmbedded yet. :) This may change if they get proper (= free/open-source) 3D accelearation on the BeagleBoard though ... ;) Regards Robert signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The glamo chip and its future
Hi. Michael Stather schrieb: I was a fan of the openmoko idea even when it was announced at first. Now when the first real device was announced I was thinking about buying one but then I realized the situaltion with the 3D chip which I read was a very big design mistake. Just want to add this: Do you know that the Nokia Internet Tablet devices contain a capable 3d accelerator as well? The reason it is not used is the same as for the FreeRunner. Regards Robert signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The glamo chip and its future
Robert Schuster schrieb: Hi. Michael Stather schrieb: I was a fan of the openmoko idea even when it was announced at first. Now when the first real device was announced I was thinking about buying one but then I realized the situaltion with the 3D chip which I read was a very big design mistake. Just want to add this: Do you know that the Nokia Internet Tablet devices contain a capable 3d accelerator as well? The reason it is not used is the same as for the FreeRunner. Regards Robert No I didn't, but it's very interesting since I didn't expect Nokia to care much about openness. Or is it because of the slow bus speeds? With ATI releasing the specs for all newer graphics adapters, would there be a chance to get an Imageon chip on board. Or something from another vendor. Or an FPGA like I said, this would be the holy grail of openness and the 3D core could be developed and provided with updates for every model. 3D acceleration on the BeagleBoard, AFAIK this board is full of (very stupid *gg) bugs and somebody has to find a 3D accelerator as well to plug it in ;) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The glamo chip and its future
-[ Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 03:07:13PM +0200, Robert Schuster ] Just want to add this: Do you know that the Nokia Internet Tablet devices contain a capable 3d accelerator as well? The reason it is not used is the same as for the FreeRunner. Sorry but IIRC the Glamo is unusable because of its specs beeing non free. The Nokia tablet situation seams a little different : the 3d chip fitted into the TI OMAP is unusable in the first place because it's not the OMAP that drives the display, being unable to work with such a high-res display. So it's a simple and cheap epson controller that's used instead. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: More HW from OpenMoko
very cool : ) Robert Schuster wrote: Hi, Mickey writes: Openmoko is selling hardware products. Heck, why must OpenMoko only sell mobile phones? I like Linux-based devices that are free as in freedom. So I would likely also buy a device from OpenMoko if it is a wireless router, a SOHO NAS (think NSLU2), a PDA or perhaps a gaming handheld. What is OpenMoko thinking about this? Regards Robert ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: More HW from OpenMoko
On Saturday 28 June 2008, Robert Schuster wrote: Hi, Mickey writes: Openmoko is selling hardware products. Heck, why must OpenMoko only sell mobile phones? That's all they've sold direct so far, but it was said a long time ago that non-phone products may be in the pipeline I like Linux-based devices that are free as in freedom. So I would likely also buy a device from OpenMoko if it is a wireless router, a SOHO NAS (think NSLU2), a PDA or perhaps a gaming handheld. I would prefer Openmoko to fill holes where there aren't already free devices available. Most of the areas you mention already have hardware available that's as open as the Neo1973 and Freerunner: Routers - wireless or not: PC Engines ALIX series - http://www.pcengines.ch/ MicroTik RouterBOARDs - http://www.routerboard.com/comparison.html SOHO NAS: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5637467946.html Gaming handheld: Pandora Then there's the Neuros OSD which really needs a successor with a better output than composite video, but is otherwise rather nice. The PDA is one area there's a gap I would like filling. I want a modern incarnation of the Psion 5. I'll just have to see how the Freerunner plus a bluetooth keyboard do as a replacement. It might just be close enough... I would also like a less power-hungry version of the Chumby, available outside the US. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)
Michael 'Mickey' Lauer writes: Fwiw, my take on that is @ http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ Very good summary -- I'd really like to see the 2007.2 stack on top of FSO... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The glamo chip and its future
On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:43:37 +0200 Michael Stather [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: I was a fan of the openmoko idea even when it was announced at first. Now when the first real device was announced I was thinking about buying one but then I realized the situaltion with the 3D chip which I read was a very big design mistake. At least this is what I read, since neither read 2D or 3D acceleration is possible. i don't know what you read, but 2d and 3d accel are possible. 2d accel is done. to an extent where it is about as accelerated as most x11 drivers are (blits, fills accelerated, xvideo yuv-rgb + scaling accelerated, everything else software fallback). 3d is not done as it will need a fair bit of work and no time for that currently. the problem is when you go to a software fallback doing transfers over the bus TO the video card are not fast. so your information is not correct. :) but it's not a powerhouse chip. don't think that you suddenly have some iphone killer graphics chip. So I wonder why this was done that way (since the older model had a much larger bandwidth), and whether it's changed for the next release. I mean e.g. games (3D games, or emulators) are IMHO an important part of the functionality of such a smartphone. needed extra sdio to get wifi for you. without needing it for wifi, glamo wouldnt be needed. the glamo itself has an sd card interface. thisis now used for the actual sd card and the old sd card interface on the cpu is used for the wifi chip. it's a price paid for wifi on the given hardware. Unfortunately, in the wiki wish list nobody complained about this and I didn't find anything on the home page, while this is probably the biggest concern of the users as far as what I've read. regards Michgael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)
On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 10:41:43 +0100 Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On 28 Jun 2008, at 03:05, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:11:06 +0100 Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On 27 Jun 2008, at 19:01, Ron K. Jeffries wrote: Can someone explain the rationale for the decision to switch from the original GTK based OpenMoko to QT based version known as April Software Update (ASU)? Rasterman is the rationale, as far as I can make out. i had nothing to do with it. i, in fact suggested to keep the current gtk apps as-is I apologise. It just seemed that this change occurred without explanation when you came on board. A message you posted some time ago evangelising E16 (??) firmed the impression that the new environment was your innovation. i said nothing of e16 - e17 is a wm. it can replace matchbox - and also take over the today screen and launcher all in one. it's got that rolled into 1 compact process. i would be more than happy keeping the gtk dialler, address book, browser, etc. etc. if people wish to replace these with efl or qt etc. is entirely their business. i'm agnostic there. personally i'd go for the most core apps (dialler, address book, sms read/edit) being built into the wm as modules (for sheer efficiency/speed. this way calling someone or answering a call is instantly available and shares resources with your current desktop environment directly thus is small and very efficient), but everything else being a process that is run when/if needed. use whatever toolkit tickles your fancy. just improve the desktop environment. others at openmoko insisted even on just qtopia - no x11. they wanted qtopia because for them it worked. we ended up with a compromise of a port of qtopia on x11 - but then also needing a custom wm. I have to say that I find it a bit odd running X11 on a mobile phone i'td odd because you're just not used to it, but as such the phone is just fine a place to run it. it is what arbitrates access to the graphics subsystem, display and input devices. it's nothing more than a well known and built-on way to share a hardware resource. using anything else will end up with you just re-inventing the lower-level x11 layer anyway. - a WM wouldn't be required without it - when an alternative is possible. In fact, as far as I can ascertain an alternative already exists. X11 seems logical to me for desktop computers, but not for a device which will only ever have one main window on the screen at a time. I had mistakenly understood earlier Openmoko builds to be non- X11 (i.e. qtopia-ish?) incorrect. the earlier builds have always been x11 + wm + gtk. the only thing i felt could be improved was replacing the minimalist wm (matchbox) that itself did pretty much nothing, and then the panel and launcher/today screen with e as it could do most of this already in 1 process and is extendible with modules to modify placement policy etc. as such your screen has MULTIPLE windows and processes already. every dialog box that pops up is a new window. in qtopia the back/options thing on the bottom is a separate window to the app - handled by the qpe desktop process. illume (module for e) has special placement policy code to handle that feature of qtopia. invariably those that do not understand x11 and like to plot its downfall are invariably doomed to re-invent it (in the end), instead of just build on it. let me give an example of where you WANT a wm and WANT to use x11 (long-term) on phones. take a 3.2 or 3.5 screen. imagine you divide it. the top part is a status panel (this is... gasp! a window! it may be a process of its own or part of another). then you have your current app window - and imagine at the bottom you place a side app. eg - mp3 or media player. so while i am writing an sms to my gramdother, my mp3 player is pumping out tunes, but the CONTROLS and STATUS are there - in the player window at the bottom of my screen. i don't like the track - quickly hit next, without flipping away from my sms editing. wm handles the layout policy and squeezing windows into the available screen when/if needed. the bottom doesn't need to be the mp3 player. it could be my irc session - with my friends, always going, but the top is my today screen or sms editor or dialler or web browser, so i'm watching whats going on in #openmoko while doing something else, without having to flip away. yes - this isn't happening now and a 2.8 screen is a tad too small, but the point is to think beyond just what we have now and into what could be possible, what people might want to do. design into the future and allow for it, not design so doing it is hard or impossible or requires major re-works and porting efforts. x11 on a phone makes a lot of sense. the xserver is the arbitrator for screen and input device access. the wm/desktop implements policy (how to lay things out and all the other things
Re: The glamo chip and its future
On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:25:12 +0200 Yorick Moko [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: I have no idea if it will be slow but youtube video's should be possible. Standard youtube is 320x240 (but they are experimenting with higher resolution) . Maybe you would have to encode it to mpeg-4 though, don't know if it will work through flash. nice post about the video acceleration: http://unadventure.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/accelerating-in-my-pocket/ youtube would be possible if you can live with lower fps (up to 20fps) without converting to mpeg4. frankly a lower fps is probably more than fine for youtube. not like the content is amazing quality anyway! :). you just will need a .swf player that uses standard xvideo acceleration. y On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 12:17 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to know more about that too. Especially I would like to know how real devices work - are they slow or not? I don't really need 3d games or anything, but i don't want my smartphone to be slow. Also is it possible in theory to play youtube videos? On 6/28/08, Michael Stather [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was a fan of the openmoko idea even when it was announced at first. Now when the first real device was announced I was thinking about buying one but then I realized the situaltion with the 3D chip which I read was a very big design mistake. At least this is what I read, since neither read 2D or 3D acceleration is possible. So I wonder why this was done that way (since the older model had a much larger bandwidth), and whether it's changed for the next release. I mean e.g. games (3D games, or emulators) are IMHO an important part of the functionality of such a smartphone. Unfortunately, in the wiki wish list nobody complained about this and I didn't find anything on the home page, while this is probably the biggest concern of the users as far as what I've read. regards Michgael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The glamo chip and its future
On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:57:47 +0200 Michael Stather [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Couldn't the glamo just be driven with a highter bandwidth, or is this a chipset limitation? no it can't. we already are seeing performance far beyond anything the glamo's designers have ever seen. in theory we could get more, but the chipset (glamo + samsung 2442 combo) won't be getting that for us. :( And if the chip just isn't capable of performing better, what about the idea to have plain framebuffer access only through the processor but include a CLPD/FPGA in the design which may be loaded on the fly with a firmware for a simple 3D chip. I was involved in a project of a game no possible. too late. phone is shipping. lcd is wired up to the glamo. on-chip lcd controller is not connected. fpga's are power hungry. not going to happen on a phone. also tyhe glamo is our interface to the sd-card in the freerunner. console, with 2D acceleration only, but IMHO simple 3D acceleration isn't that hard. And this would have the advantage that the 3D core is fully open and can even be improved with optimisations and more features. I think through its openness openmoko could also become quite popular for gamers, since there exist many good open-source games which could be ported easily to the platform if there was hardware acceleration (OpenGL ES or even better plain OpenGL). Thinking of consumers, they want fancy 3D effects and games, and since all options nowadays are either j2ME commercial games or smartphones which have all a rather small community or are closed like the iPhone, this could becomne another real advantage of the openmoko platform. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop
now it?s advance booking for the :-( 25.07 someone got an confirmation for the 05.07 ??? Ok. Thanks a lot. It's not the same page when you click on the home's picture or on the left menu ... Now I have to see if I can change my order ... Mike Christian Weßel a écrit : Just scroll down at http://www.pulster.de/index.htm?openmoko.htm Am Freitag, den 27.06.2008, 18:00 +0200 schrieb Mike Baroukh: with bag and headphones Where do you saw a bag ? Is there any options ? I didn't see where ... I also ordered mine but without the debug board I did not found ... thanks. Mike Bumbl a écrit : Christoph Pulster schrieb: what about the german distributors subscribed to this list any news on freerunners received? We start sales 07/05/2008 (5.July) and accept orders now. Price 299 eur incl. VAT. A cheap price means more owners. That's what the community needs. Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Ordered mine too with bag and headphones ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: More HW from OpenMoko
Why not a powerful handeld graphic calculator? 2008/6/28, Al Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Saturday 28 June 2008, Robert Schuster wrote: Hi, Mickey writes: Openmoko is selling hardware products. Heck, why must OpenMoko only sell mobile phones? That's all they've sold direct so far, but it was said a long time ago that non-phone products may be in the pipeline I like Linux-based devices that are free as in freedom. So I would likely also buy a device from OpenMoko if it is a wireless router, a SOHO NAS (think NSLU2), a PDA or perhaps a gaming handheld. I would prefer Openmoko to fill holes where there aren't already free devices available. Most of the areas you mention already have hardware available that's as open as the Neo1973 and Freerunner: Routers - wireless or not: PC Engines ALIX series - http://www.pcengines.ch/ MicroTik RouterBOARDs - http://www.routerboard.com/comparison.html SOHO NAS: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5637467946.html Gaming handheld: Pandora Then there's the Neuros OSD which really needs a successor with a better output than composite video, but is otherwise rather nice. The PDA is one area there's a gap I would like filling. I want a modern incarnation of the Psion 5. I'll just have to see how the Freerunner plus a bluetooth keyboard do as a replacement. It might just be close enough... I would also like a less power-hungry version of the Chumby, available outside the US. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- J. Manrique López de la Fuente http://www.jsmanrique.es ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Qtopia/X11 status
Hi guys, can someone tell me (or point me) to the current status of the Qtopia X11 port? -- Kind regards, Sascha Peilicke http://www.saschashideout.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)
I think a lot of people hate QT so much that they don't even see anymore that GTK+ still lives and grows as before! excuse me, but why would one _hate_ qt/qtopia? not being their toolkit of choice, ok. not liking the visual apperance or the way one programs with it, ok. but hate? what poor *** has one to be to _hate_ some lines of innocent code? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia/X11 status
Hi, Sascha Peilicke schrieb: Hi guys, can someone tell me (or point me) to the current status of the Qtopia X11 port? ASU is already using it :-) See the buildhost [1] for software images for your platform (neo1973 or Freerunner). Files are named Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11*. Cheers, Marc [1] http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: More HW from OpenMoko
On 6/28/08 Robert Schuster wrote: Mickey writes: Openmoko is selling hardware products. Heck, why must OpenMoko only sell mobile phones? I like Linux-based devices that are free as in freedom. So I would likely also buy a device from OpenMoko if it is a wireless router, a SOHO NAS (think NSLU2), a PDA or perhaps a gaming handheld. What is OpenMoko thinking about this? We agree with you. And we're thinking. Working. ;-) -- -Sean ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The glamo chip and its future
Yorick Moko escribi: I have no idea if it will be slow but youtube video's should be possible. "should be" is not the same than "it is". could anybody confirm that? One of the biggest problems I have running linux on a PowerPC mac it that there is not flash player for this plataform. I use gnash and I can watch and use a lot of flash content, but I cannnot watch youtube videos at least I download them using clive and playing them (I use mplayer). Gnash used to work for youtube, but it stopped working about a month ago. I use Debian Lenny Kosa - Un mundo mejor es posible - Standard youtube is 320x240 (but they are experimenting with higher resolution) . Maybe you would have to encode it to mpeg-4 though, don't know if it will work through flash. nice post about the video acceleration: http://unadventure.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/accelerating-in-my-pocket/ y On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 12:17 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to know more about that too. Especially I would like to know how real devices work - are they slow or not? I don't really need 3d games or anything, but i don't want my smartphone to be slow. Also is it possible in theory to play youtube videos? On 6/28/08, Michael Stather [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was a fan of the openmoko idea even when it was announced at first. Now when the first "real" device was announced I was thinking about buying one but then I realized the situaltion with the 3D chip which I read was "a very big design mistake". At least this is what I read, since neither read 2D or 3D acceleration is possible. So I wonder why this was done that way (since the older model had a much larger bandwidth), and whether it's changed for the next release. I mean e.g. games (3D games, or emulators) are IMHO an important part of the functionality of such a smartphone. Unfortunately, in the wiki wish list nobody complained about this and I didn't find anything on the home page, while this is probably the biggest concern of the users as far as what I've read. regards Michgael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: More HW from OpenMoko
Sean Moss-Pultz schrieb: On 6/28/08 Robert Schuster wrote: Mickey writes: Openmoko is selling hardware products. Heck, why must OpenMoko only sell mobile phones? I like Linux-based devices that are free as in freedom. So I would likely also buy a device from OpenMoko if it is a wireless router, a SOHO NAS (think NSLU2), a PDA or perhaps a gaming handheld. What is OpenMoko thinking about this? I'm not a hardcore gamer myself but I think that the gaming haldheld could be awesome success (with proper 3D acceleration of course) since it would be first-of-its-kind. There are so many good open-source games available which could be ported, and really IMHO rival proprietary platforms where every game costs about 50€/70$. If it had WLAN for online games and even more a possibility to connect a mouse (USB host or bluetooth) for FPS and Strategy games it would be even better. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Let us impact the material world
kenneth marken wrote: On Saturday 28 June 2008 14:54:11 xiangfu wrote: may be can use SMS control the remote NEO like send #neo_command shutdown -h now then the neo poweroff : ) that could be worriesome without some kind of id system to verify that the sender is someone that should have that kind of control. if a random person can send commands to the freerunner, it will be a security nightmare... Well, I figure that a list of trusted senders is absolutely needed :) Anyway thanks Sean for your words! -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The glamo chip and its future
Mikko Rauhala wrote: Youtube does provide higher quality mp4 video nowadays; you can get at the download links from eg. keepvid.com service. So if the mp4 files downloadable are ones that the Glamo chip can decode, that's our solution; just code a youtube viewer that shows the mp4 versions. Youtube has also mp4 low quality videos and 3gp. Try: http://3v1n0.net/youtube-full-dl/ [1] [1] Weeks ago it was also able to download the original quality video (real HD too!). then YT blocked me :( -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Let us impact the material world
On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Paul Wouters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 27 Jun 2008, Nelson Castillo wrote: I think encrypted messages are crucial for freedom. I also think most people don't know how easy it is for others to see what they send through the networks. I cannot wait to see those Encrypted messages traveling free through _their_ networks to deliver _our_ messages. That means: - Phase out SMS in favour of IM (SMS char limit makes crypto hard, cheaper too) - Use OTR with IM (http://otr.cypherpunks.ca) I am not sure at the current state of IM clients, but there are python bindings for OTR at http://pyotr.pentabarf.de/ I will go at it as soon as I can order my Freerunner in Canada Mmm. Doesn't IM requiere permanent connection? For status updates, etc? I'd like to know what you think about two things: 1) We know email is broken (at least unsafe and prone to spam) 2) What is the best alternative for this scenario? Is it really IM? 3) Are there other (IP-based) protocolos suitable for delivering the encrypted messages? Regards, Nelson.- -- http://arhuaco.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 5:22 AM, Neil Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday June 28, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was thinking of asking the very same thing. When dialing or using a calculator or sending a text message, the glamo would only slow us down. Or am I mistaken? Maybe it's a very stupid question (I presume if it were possible such a trivial feat would already be implemented). The glamo is the video controller. If you disable the glamo, you don't get any picture. Well, sure, but think of the bright side: you would have infinite FPS in this video mode! :-P Hans ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: More HW from OpenMoko
To me come in mind this: http://openpandora.org/ Michael Stather wrote: Sean Moss-Pultz schrieb: On 6/28/08 Robert Schuster wrote: Mickey writes: Openmoko is selling hardware products. Heck, why must OpenMoko only sell mobile phones? I like Linux-based devices that are free as in freedom. So I would likely also buy a device from OpenMoko if it is a wireless router, a SOHO NAS (think NSLU2), a PDA or perhaps a gaming handheld. What is OpenMoko thinking about this? I'm not a hardcore gamer myself but I think that the gaming haldheld could be awesome success (with proper 3D acceleration of course) since it would be first-of-its-kind. There are so many good open-source games available which could be ported, and really IMHO rival proprietary platforms where every game costs about 50€/70$. If it had WLAN for online games and even more a possibility to connect a mouse (USB host or bluetooth) for FPS and Strategy games it would be even better. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: More HW from OpenMoko
Nothing stops anybody from approaching me with this idea to build their own business. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Stather Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 9:48 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: More HW from OpenMoko Sean Moss-Pultz schrieb: On 6/28/08 Robert Schuster wrote: Mickey writes: Openmoko is selling hardware products. Heck, why must OpenMoko only sell mobile phones? I like Linux-based devices that are free as in freedom. So I would likely also buy a device from OpenMoko if it is a wireless router, a SOHO NAS (think NSLU2), a PDA or perhaps a gaming handheld. What is OpenMoko thinking about this? I'm not a hardcore gamer myself but I think that the gaming haldheld could be awesome success (with proper 3D acceleration of course) since it would be first-of-its-kind. There are so many good open-source games available which could be ported, and really IMHO rival proprietary platforms where every game costs about 50€/70$. If it had WLAN for online games and even more a possibility to connect a mouse (USB host or bluetooth) for FPS and Strategy games it would be even better. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: More HW from OpenMoko
RPN please. Actually it would be cool to do retro versions of the old HP prgrammable calcs ( 12 etc etc) Hehe, like donkey kong on the PC. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jose Manrique Lopez de la Fuente Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 8:39 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: More HW from OpenMoko Why not a powerful handeld graphic calculator? 2008/6/28, Al Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Saturday 28 June 2008, Robert Schuster wrote: Hi, Mickey writes: Openmoko is selling hardware products. Heck, why must OpenMoko only sell mobile phones? That's all they've sold direct so far, but it was said a long time ago that non-phone products may be in the pipeline I like Linux-based devices that are free as in freedom. So I would likely also buy a device from OpenMoko if it is a wireless router, a SOHO NAS (think NSLU2), a PDA or perhaps a gaming handheld. I would prefer Openmoko to fill holes where there aren't already free devices available. Most of the areas you mention already have hardware available that's as open as the Neo1973 and Freerunner: Routers - wireless or not: PC Engines ALIX series - http://www.pcengines.ch/ MicroTik RouterBOARDs - http://www.routerboard.com/comparison.html SOHO NAS: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5637467946.html Gaming handheld: Pandora Then there's the Neuros OSD which really needs a successor with a better output than composite video, but is otherwise rather nice. The PDA is one area there's a gap I would like filling. I want a modern incarnation of the Psion 5. I'll just have to see how the Freerunner plus a bluetooth keyboard do as a replacement. It might just be close enough... I would also like a less power-hungry version of the Chumby, available outside the US. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- J. Manrique López de la Fuente http://www.jsmanrique.es ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
To Openmoko developers
This tread born to be dedicated to all Openmoko developers, to Steve, Raster, Sean and all the persons that are in every day working to get our child out! So please, for a time, we can remove all the complains / polemics about the develop, and to see the results we got, getting a phone very very near to be completly free. Thank you, OM Developers Michele Renda ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: More HW from OpenMoko
-[ Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 08:25:42PM +0200, Michele Renda ] To me come in mind this: http://openpandora.org/ Last time I checked hardware was not free neither - it uses powerVR instead of ATI, for instance. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)
Perfect. Take the existing GTK apps. make your perfect phone. I will sell you phones At a huge discount and you can make money based on your belief and expertise in GTK+. You buy phones from me, you add your software, you resell. Make money off your passion For GTK+. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Esben Stien Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 6:58 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt) Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: the rationale for the decision to switch from the original GTK based OpenMoko There will be a fork here at one point. There's a good bunch of us who wants a standard GTK+ environment as the main guis' for the phone. There's even some that don't want any QT on the phone, at all;). I just hope that the existing applications has been properly engineered, separating the core from the UI (MVC, three tier, PCMEF) so that it's just a matter of speaking a common protocol. -- Esben Stien is [EMAIL PROTECTED] s a http://www. s tn m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@n n ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Ordering Free-for-all?
The units are already shippin to EU. So see your disty there. The units for the US are on the docks, The USA office is closed 2,3,4 july So first ship USA ( assuming no problems in customs) is week of 7 july. Announcement will go out The web shop at openmoko.com will OPEN when products land in the US and are ready to ship. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Horton Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 12:34 PM To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion' Subject: RE: Ordering Free-for-all? ...And with the delays on the list the email will arrive about the time it sells out. :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven ** Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 10:54 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Ordering Free-for-all? And note that those will have zero impact on your chance of getting a Neo. Essentially, if you want a Neo, make sure you check your email often. I'm assuming the announcement will go to the announcement list... -Steven On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 3:26 AM, arne anka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: see buyers interest list http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buying_Interest_List and group sales http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FSO Image gets it right
Wow, very kool. Sean and I spent a bunch of hours yesterday talking about FSO. Mickey is genius. I just need to wrap my head around it -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Yorick Moko Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 12:16 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FSO Image gets it right video of the FSO milestone 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toPe0S8QpJY On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Tilman Baumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Graeme Gregory wrote: Well I have seen the future and the future is FSO. For the first time I have been able to make and receive phone calls on a gta02 without hassle. GTK+ software could no do this, qtopia software cannot do this. Scaredycats gtk/phonekit/the-plan[tm] build works well for my gta01. I think this front end is the future. :) But i would like to see this work with the FSO (Do we really call it this way?) back ends... Is someone working on this? -- Drucken Sie diese Mail bitte nur auf Recyclingpapier aus. Please print this mail only on recycled paper. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Selling my Neo 1973
Hi, I've had a Neo 1973 since they shipped first a while ago. Unfortunately I never had the time to hack on it, or to play around with it sufficiently to make the purchase worth while. So I decided to sell the device so that someone else might use it. I'm asking for $150 (Canadian or US). I'm located in Toronto, Canada. I can ship it to wherever you'd like or if you're in the area we can arrange to meet. If anyone's interested, please let me know. Happy hacking! :-) Igor ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: To Openmoko developers
Michele Renda ha scritto: This tread born to be dedicated to all Openmoko developers, to Steve, Raster, Sean and all the persons that are in every day working to get our child out! So please, for a time, we can remove all the complains / polemics about the develop, and to see the results we got, getting a phone very very near to be completly free. Thank you, OM Developers Michele Renda ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I don't want to spam but, really, the work of the OM team is great! Thanks a lot guys, Fradeve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Let us impact the material world
Hmm, I'd personally like a good tor client on there. Of course, tor also needs more relays :-P Still, if we want real freedom, it's a step in the right direction. On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 7:13 PM, Paul Wouters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 27 Jun 2008, Nelson Castillo wrote: I think encrypted messages are crucial for freedom. I also think most people don't know how easy it is for others to see what they send through the networks. I cannot wait to see those Encrypted messages traveling free through _their_ networks to deliver _our_ messages. That means: - Phase out SMS in favour of IM (SMS char limit makes crypto hard, cheaper too) - Use OTR with IM (http://otr.cypherpunks.ca) I am not sure at the current state of IM clients, but there are python bindings for OTR at http://pyotr.pentabarf.de/ I will go at it as soon as I can order my Freerunner in Canada Paul ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- H. Lally Singh Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science Virginia Tech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ordering Free-for-all?
On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 3:45 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The units are already shippin to EU. So see your disty there. The units for the US are on the docks, The USA office is closed 2,3,4 july Who gets three days off for the fourth of July? That's ridiculous! -- Dylan Type faster. Use Dvorak: http://dvzine.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ordering Free-for-all?
Am So 29. Juni 2008 schrieb Dylan Semler: On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 3:45 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The units are already shippin to EU. So see your disty there. The units for the US are on the docks, The USA office is closed 2,3,4 july Who gets three days off for the fourth of July? That's ridiculous! -- Dylan Type faster. Use Dvorak: http://dvzine.org Type better. Use a decent email-client. ;P Your post was just all quote. Bemuses me like hell. /j signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ordering Free-for-all?
Can I place an order from Shanghai? I mean, it seems ridiculous that I'd have to get it from the US (major round trip across the Pacific for no reason). thanks, mischa On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 4:45 AM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The units are already shippin to EU. So see your disty there. The units for the US are on the docks, The USA office is closed 2,3,4 july So first ship USA ( assuming no problems in customs) is week of 7 july. Announcement will go out The web shop at openmoko.com will OPEN when products land in the US and are ready to ship. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Horton Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 12:34 PM To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion' Subject: RE: Ordering Free-for-all? ...And with the delays on the list the email will arrive about the time it sells out. :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven ** Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 10:54 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Ordering Free-for-all? And note that those will have zero impact on your chance of getting a Neo. Essentially, if you want a Neo, make sure you check your email often. I'm assuming the announcement will go to the announcement list... -Steven On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 3:26 AM, arne anka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: see buyers interest list http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buying_Interest_List and group sales http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Mischa Beitz http://mischa.beitz.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ordering Free-for-all?
On 6/29/08 Mischa Beitz wrote: Can I place an order from Shanghai? I mean, it seems ridiculous that I'd have to get it from the US (major round trip across the Pacific for no reason). We should be able to ship from Taiwan. Harry can we? Do have any left? -Sean ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No WLAN AP functionality
Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sadly no, as it's a hardmac chip and the proprietary firmware lacks this feature. Oh, no. That's really damn sad. -- Esben Stien is [EMAIL PROTECTED] s a http://www. s tn m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@n n ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: data collection for GSM coverage mape is COOL idea
Great idea +1 Fabian Off wrote: Hey, maybe then we should create something like a plugin (or extension) for openstreetmaps, so we can append many kinds of meta-data (such as radar positions, gsm coverage, whatsoever) to existing maps... kinda points of interest (?) :) I think this would address a lot of people... all who are using osm by now... Fabian Off - Ursprüngliche Mail Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Gesendet: Mittwoch, den 25. Juni 2008, 18:34:50 Uhr Betreff: Re: data collection for GSM coverage mape is COOL idea Le mercredi 25 juin 2008 à 17:42, vous avez écrit : I like thw GSM coverage map idea, a LOT! -- ron k jeffries +1 I'like all ideas about statistics gatherage (maps, radas, ...) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
