from:"Matt"

I don't mean to be overly critical, the process you've described is
trivial enough, and thank you for sharing, but why is is designed like
this?
Surely if the exact same steps are performed before building the
software, it will be much easier for many more people.
It just seem insane to be hardcoding references to sound files for
functions that people will habitually want to change.
Ring tone is probably the first item of customisation a new user will
want to change, and they will expect it to be intuitive.

On another note, the rule.yaml file looks intresting, where can I find
out more about that ?

Matt


On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Guillaume Chereau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Just for your information, with the new events system, it will soon be
 different. You will have to edit the rule.yaml file. It looks like this
 now :

 -
# This rule will play a ring tone when a call is incoming
trigger: CallStatus()
filters: HasAttr(status, incoming)
actions:
- PlaySound(/usr/share/sounds/Arkanoid_PSID.sid)
- StartVibration()
 -
# This one will stop the ring tone when the call is in an other state
trigger: CallStatus()
filters: Not(HasAttr(status, incoming))
actions:
- StopSound(/usr/share/sounds/Arkanoid_PSID.sid)
- StopVibration()

 So you will need to replace the path to the path you want.
 Still not as good as a real user interface, but better than being
 hard-coded in the framework code.

 Charlie

 On Thu, 2008-08-07 at 01:53 +0200, Francesco Cat wrote:
 add this on the wiki :D it seems nice and should be automated in a
 really simple way! :)

 2008/8/7 Angus Ainslie [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 3:40 PM, simarillion [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  On Wednesday 06 August 2008 20:20:29 Angus Ainslie wrote:
   Where is the FSO ring tone saved ?
  
   Angus
 
  I think it's /usr/share/sounds/
  But I'm not sure.
 
 
  Thanks ,
 
  Thats exactly where it is.
 
  /usr/share/sounds/Arkanoid_PSID.sid
 
  Now to change it is a little bit of fun.
 
  first in
 
  /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/framework/subsystems/oeventd/receiver.py
 
  Change the line that reads:
 
  decoder = gst.element_factory_make( siddec, decoder )
 
  to
 
  decoder = gst.element_factory_make( mad, decoder )
 
 
  and change the line that reads:
 
  filesrc.set_property( location, /usr/share/sounds/Arkanoid_PSID.sid )
 
  to
 
  filesrc.set_property( location, /usr/share/sounds/ringtone )
 
  Then
 
  mv
  /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/framework/subsystems/oeventd/receiver.pyo
  /home/root
 
  then reboot the phone ( I'm sure there's a better way to regenerate
  receiver.pyo but I don't know it )
 
  Now you can link /usr/share/sounds/ringtone to any mp3 and that will be 
  your
  ringtone
 
  Angus
 

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Re: ASU 2008.08 image

2008-08-07 Thread Matt

Got me too.

To be fair the wiki points to an equally misleading folder :

http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200808/

I guess it was all prep work for the release.


Dimitri wrote:
 You misunderstood me.

 NOW we know it was fake ASU. NOW. But 2 days ago, the WIKI said it was the
 actual ASU. The error was in the WIKI, not with the people who followed the
 WIKI's (now false) directions.

 D


 David Samblas wrote:
   
 If those who make ASU are telling to us fake ASU is fake ASU why do you
 think fake ASU is a real ASU?
 It seems a beta version of some kind of FSO more than a ASU. It uses the
 same wallpapers that I have saw in a FSO light image I have tested
 before on Qemu.
 So You want ASU? then wait until tomorrow anounce, is easy.
 El jue, 07-08-2008 a las 08:40 -0700, Dimitri escribió:
 
 Same here. I thought the fake ASU was the real ASU, as clearly stated by
 the
 wiki.

 After installing it, I had all sorts of problems: USB wasn't working
 right;
 it was very sluggish; it would crash within a few minutes... horrible.

 D


 Benedikt Schindler wrote:
   
 Rod Whitby schrieb:
 
 So whilst it might give an idea of what ASU might look like, it will
 certainly have lots of bugs and features (e.g. the FSO theme) which
 definitely are not in the image you get when you build from the
   
 correct
   
 branch.

 -- Rod
   
   
 we should editing the wiki then.
 because the wiki definitly saied that this should be the ASU (Om2008.8) 
 Image.

 ...

 But i have to say that everyone who looked after the ASU by the wiki
 
 was 
   
 directed to this fake-ASU.
 (or was it just me?)

 but i would say i wait until tomorrow before i complain something or 
 write something to the wiki

 Beni

 
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Re: FSO ringtone

2008-08-07 Thread Matt


 But, in the framework we want to include a full customizable events 
 system, that will be useful when you want to programs context rules, 
 like : when I enter into my house, set profile to Silent, etc...
 So the moment we use this mechanism to start and stop the ring tone. 
 Maybe in the future we will move that out of the framework, but the 
 events manager system will stay, because it has many other uses.
   
 Surely if the exact same steps are performed before building the
 software, it will be much easier for many more people.
 It just seem insane to be hardcoding references to sound files for
 functions that people will habitually want to change.
   
 
 Yes, that is why I say, the software should decide of the way it reacts 
 to an incoming call.
   
 Ring tone is probably the first item of customisation a new user will
 want to change, and they will expect it to be intuitive.

 On another note, the rule.yaml file looks intresting, where can I find
 out more about that ?
   
 
 Well, it is very new, I just added this to the framework a few days ago. 
 It uses the yaml syntax [0] that I like a lot . If you want to see the 
 code, download the framework daemon [1], and have a look at the files in 
 subsystems/oeventsd/ It is all in python and there is enough 
 documentation to get the idea.
 As soon as the framework team accepts this thing, I will create a 
 tutorial on how to create custom rules in the freesmartphone wiki [1]

 [0] http://www.yaml.org/
 [1] http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=framework.git;a=summary
 [2] http://www.freesmartphone.org/index.php/Tutorials

 Charlie
   

Very interesting indeed.
And there is a profile switcher planned I hope?


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Re: Some commentary on the new Openmoko direction, and a review of FSO

Between Kevin Dean's commentary and Wolfgang's response, there's more
information than can be found in a day of trawling threads and
rummaging in the wiki.

Bravo

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Re: FSO: settings and profiles

On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 8:36 AM, Fredrik Wendt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 And there is a profile switcher planned I hope?

 I just can't let go of the idea of having several profiles activated at
 the same time, so I'll spam you all once more (last time, I promise).

 Locations:
 - work
 - home
 - cinema
 - lecture hall
 - hospital
 - amusement park

 Activities:
 - coding (default)
 - none (default for others)
 - meeting
 - in a phone call
 - lecture / conference
 - watching a movie
 - exercising (biking anyone?) (it could detect the wii fit bluetooth MAC
 addresses in the air as well)

 Time based:
 - after bed time
 - tuck in time (put the kid(s) to sleep)
 - lunch
 - working hours
 - Simpsons

 Other:
 - phone is upside down on a table (only flash lights, no buzz or
 ringtone)
 - battery is running low
 - far from home (send e-mail with GPS coordinates every hour)
 - vacation (don't send GPS coordinates every hour)
 - bluetooth headset is in range (and paired)
 - home media center (and asterisk) is in range (redirect music)

 Being able to have just _one_ context/setting/mood at a time is so
 restricting.


 When I go to lunch (12-13, or 12 am to 1 pm) I generally put the phone
 in my pocket so I want the ringing sound to be louder. BUT, if I'm in a
 lunch meeting with a client (the meeting's in the calendar) I don't want
 to be disturbed (except by family and day care numbers), hence there
 should be no ringtone at all.

 This is also true while exercising (louder), unless it's tuck in time
 for the kids and I'm at home (Wii Fit).

 If I'm at the cinema the GSM should turn off, unless I'm at a conference
 (in my calendar) which would only turn ringtone off (or send it to my BT
 headset at a low volume). If I'm a presenter I'd like all calls to be
 rejected (unless family + day care) so I won't be interrupted while
 using the FreeRunner as a remote control (next slide, etc - too bad it
 didn't come with a laser beam/LED as well :).


 I'd love the idea of having more than one profile (context) active at
 the same time - my daily life simply isn't that simple that one profile
 fits. I don't want to be locked up in old locked down cellphone
 behaviour - I want to be free. ;)

 / Fredrik Wendt


Much of what you have described was articulated in this [1] thread,
including profile aggregation.
I strongly encourage people to post their similar ideas so hopefully
developers will be able to anticipate future requirements.

With regards to applying multiple profiles (which I really like), some
thought will have to go in to resolving conflicts.

For instance, if we have two rules :

On location event set profile foo;
On temporal event set profile bar;

The profile may be opposites, if they trigger at the same time, which
should win out ?


[1] http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/thread.html#22447


Matt

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FSO oeventsd and rules

On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Guillaume Chereau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Just for your information, with the new events system, it will soon be
 different. You will have to edit the rule.yaml file. It looks like this
 now :

 -
# This rule will play a ring tone when a call is incoming
trigger: CallStatus()
filters: HasAttr(status, incoming)
actions:
- PlaySound(/usr/share/sounds/Arkanoid_PSID.sid)
- StartVibration()
 -
# This one will stop the ring tone when the call is in an other state
trigger: CallStatus()
filters: Not(HasAttr(status, incoming))
actions:
- StopSound(/usr/share/sounds/Arkanoid_PSID.sid)
- StopVibration()

snippaste

 Well, it is very new, I just added this to the framework a few days ago.
 It uses the yaml syntax [0] that I like a lot . If you want to see the
 code, download the framework daemon [1], and have a look at the files in
 subsystems/oeventsd/ It is all in python and there is enough
 documentation to get the idea.
 As soon as the framework team accepts this thing, I will create a
 tutorial on how to create custom rules in the freesmartphone wiki [1]

 [0] http://www.yaml.org/
 [1] http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=framework.git;a=summary
 [2] http://www.freesmartphone.org/index.php/Tutorials


Am I right in thinking that oeventsd [1] is essentially a rules
engine, looks that way.

So, for instance, to implement the feature 'change ringtone depending
on caller'.

1. Would ophone look up the callerid in contacts for a ringtone, and
pass it to oeventsd to be handled by Playsound?

2. Or will oeventsd be the brains, taking the callerid and processing
the rules, which may involve factoring in time, location, contact,
contact group memebership, etc, and initiating the most appropriate
action? (play sound, hangup, divert, answer and play message, start
recording)

3. Or might oeventsd hand off to a separate rules engine altogether?
This would allow others to write their own dbus compliant 'rulesd' in
whatever suits them (prolog, lua, etc).

Interesting times indeed.

Thanks

[1] 
http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=framework.git;a=tree;f=framework/subsystems/oeventsd

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Re: GSM detection/identification

2008-08-03 Thread Matt

Paul Buede wrote:
 Matt Joyce wrote:
   
 The wiki has some interesting info on GSM :
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gsm

 The AT commands to interact with the hardware are here :
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AT_Commands
 (I wonder if they are an extension of the earlier dial up modem
 commands ala Hayes?)

 here's how you use the commands:
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gsmd#Usage_of_shell_mode

 these command may work for you :

 r   Register to network
 R   Register to given operator (R=number)
 U   Unregister from netowrk
 P   Print current operator
 N   Print current operator in numeric
 L   List available operators
 Q   Read signal quality
 nr  Query network registration

 As I mentioned, I wanted to find all contactable sites, but didn't
 find a command for that.

   
 
 That was a huge help. What I need now is a way to pass commands from the
 cli and have it return values to the cli rather than operating in the
 shell. So then I can write a script to do it and log to a file. I want
 it to run while I drive around, so I don't have to stop on tap on the
 tiny keyboard. Any suggestions?

 I was able to do the following today, from home:

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/log# libgsmd-tool -m shell
 libgsm-tool - (C) 2006-2007 by Harald Welte and OpenMoko, Inc.
 This program is Free Software and has ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY

 L
 # # List operators
 31026 T - Mobile, T - Mob for short, is our current operator
 31056 Cellular One DC, Cell On for short, is available
 31041 Cingular, Cingula for short, is available


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I think you want is :

For your operator
echo -e AT+COPS\n | libgsmd-tool -m atcmd

For availabel operators
echo -e AT+COPS=?\n | libgsmd-tool -m atcmd

Please report back if this helps.


Matt

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Re: GSM detection/identification

2008-08-03 Thread Matt Joyce

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Esben Stien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Paul Buede [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 What I need now is a way to pass commands from the cli and have it
 return values to the cli rather than operating in the shell.

 What you want is a non interactive interface to the gsm daemon and I'm
 very surprised it's not implemented this way.


`libgsmd-tool -m atcmd` outputs results to stdout.  (tested on 2007.2)

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Re: social get-together around Linuxworld

2008-08-02 Thread Matt Margush

Count me in!

Matt

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 11:55 PM, Sameer Verma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Sameer Verma wrote:
  Michael Shiloh wrote:
 
  Hey everyone,
 
  There seem to be a fair number of you in the San Francisco Bay Area, and
  in addition to myself who lives in SF, there will be some others from
  Openmoko in town.
 
  What do you say to a social gathering?
 
 
 
  Sounds like fun!
 
  We used to have a wiki page for events. If someone can send me a link to
  it, I'll find out from others when is a good time, and post an event,
  perhaps at a local bar.
 
  Alternately, or in addition to, what do you say to a BoF?
 
 
 
  A BoF would be great, except that LinuxWorld's page says that call for
  BoFs are now closed. The BoF may have to be at a Bar.
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  Sameer
 

 Here's the page on Call for BoFs.
 http://www.linuxworldexpo.com/live/12/speakers//SN389138
 --
 Sameer

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Re: GSM detection/identification

2008-07-30 Thread Matt Joyce

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Paul Buede [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Anybody else know what I can query or run to view available cell
 carriers at any given time?  Is this even possible?  Correct me if I am
 wrong, I am kind of making this up to try and figure out how it works:



I had a play last night, I was trying to find out what towers were contactable.
I wasn't successful, but you might be with your investigations.

The wiki has some interesting info on GSM :
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gsm

The AT commands to interact with the hardware are here :
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AT_Commands
(I wonder if they are an extension of the earlier dial up modem
commands ala Hayes?)

here's how you use the commands:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gsmd#Usage_of_shell_mode

these command may work for you :

r   Register to network
R   Register to given operator (R=number)
U   Unregister from netowrk
P   Print current operator
N   Print current operator in numeric
L   List available operators
Q   Read signal quality
nr  Query network registration

As I mentioned, I wanted to find all contactable sites, but didn't
find a command for that.

Regards

Matt

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Re: Invisible Shield install help

2008-07-24 Thread Matt Luzum

shawn sullivan wrote:
 Or if I post a pic, could confirm that I have the right cover?

I suspect you got the wrong one, but if you post a pic I could tell you 
if it looks like the one I got, which fits fairly well.

There should be a front piece, a back piece, another piece for the 
screen, and seven total pieces to go around the sides in between all the 
ports.  The front and the back have a hole for the lanyard, while the 
front has another hole for the earpiece and a cutout for the screen. 
The front and the back have 10 total slits going around the outside so 
that it can wrap around the curved portion.

Hopefully that's enough to tell if you have the right one, but feel free 
to upload a pic.

Matt

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Re: strange problem with Intenso 4GB SDHC card

2008-07-23 Thread Matt Luzum

Andy Green wrote:
 There's a race of some kind in suspend / resume that can do this, the
 signature effect of it is on resume your device comes back as mmcblk1
 and the logical filesystem in memory is corrupted.  We didn't see this
 for a long time though.  Maybe keep an eye out for such shenanigans on
 resume.

I just thought I'd mention that I had a similar thing happen.  Three 
times in the past couple days, my 8 GB A-Data microSDHC card somehow 
seemed to have its partition table deleted.  No partitions would show up 
on my card anyway, although I could make new partitions and read and 
write from them with a card reader.  I haven't had time to investigate 
more thoroughly, so I don't know whether it happens on resume or if it 
only happens when I'm doing something in particular.  I've had the 
original half gig card in there since yesterday and it hasn't had any 
problems, even though the SDHC card previously had problems several 
times in short order, so there might be some difference there.

Sorry I can't be of more help with specifics, but I can confirm that 
there's someone else having this problem.

Matt


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Re: Rules based policy engine

2008-07-22 Thread Matt Joyce


 It would be good to make sure that it's easy to have prolog or some
 other rule based system autogenerate and interface to the small domain
 specific language.  I think the way it would work is prolog would use
 some event handlers to maintain a table of facts that the DSL would then
 use as its base database.

 Also, datalog would be a much better choice than prolog.  The outcome of
 prolog programs depends on the order in which rules are defined.  This
 isn't true for datalog, which has cleaner semantics.  The two languages
 have nearly identical syntax.

 -Rusty


I took some time to read the wikipedia pages for bother Prolog [1] and
Datalog [2], both interesting.
I found some Prolog libs for Python but not for Datalog, but I found
source code for Datalog - A deductive database system for memory
constrained devices. [3], a quick look suggests it written in C.
Might be interesting.

I think it's important to keep jotting down potential uses for this
system, I think I may whip up a wiki page at some point.
With inference in mind, a small gui app which simply asks Where are we now ?
The user enters Work, or Home, etc.
The app informs the rule system about all the GMS towers it can
detect, and WIFI networks and the tag the user entered.
A pretty simple way of training the system, I think.

How about a location based home pages on the browser or rss.
I'm at the station (because the rule system infers that I am), show me
the traffic news rss.
At work, show me my Nagios status page.
At home my weather station page. (is that sad?)
Anywhere else, google please.

I'm pretty sure GSM locations would work for this sort of thing.

Comments welcomed.

Regards

Matt

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prolog
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datalog
[3] http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ramsdell/tools/datalog/index.html

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Re: Ruleby was: Rules based policy engine

2008-07-22 Thread matt joyce



Tilman Baumann wrote:
 Scott wrote:
   
 I just found this inference engine.

 http://ruleby.org/wiki/Ruleby

 I working on a Rails project think Ruby is a great language to work 
 with.  And Ruby is pretty small..
 

 A bit too many layers there for my taste. :)
 A domain specific rules language implemented in ruby embedded in c?
 The ruby layer does not seem to be thin enough to justify that.
 (ok, writing rules in ruby is kind cool. As would any other real 
 language be. Like lightweights like lua or certain lisp-ish languages. 
 Even javascript would not be bad.)

 Btw. I like the idea of a rules language. But why not something simple 
 and stupid like for example SIEVE filters in cyrus imap.
 That's a hand full of yacc and lex magic and some stupid engine code.
 I mean, what we can match is pretty much defined by the fact that we 
 match numbers and SMS.
 A hand full of logic expressions on pre defined attributes should be enough.
 My email filter is not smarter too, but email a lot more complicated. 
 And it works well.

 If someone puts the effort in to something like Prolog or Ruleby i will 
 not argue. But it seems a bit overkill to me.

   
I agree with Rusty's idea (somewhere in this thread), if it's built as 
modules, the rules processing could be done by various efforts.
Python, Ruby, Sieve, Prolog, Datalog, C; how fantastic that we have the 
chance (and choice) of any (all), including those we haven't thought of 
yet.  Fertile times indeed!

For some (me) the FR is a toy of sorts, something to explore.
For others it's a tool, something to solve a problem with.
I suspect it's partly an act of rebellion too.

Matt

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Re: Rules based policy engine

2008-07-22 Thread Matt Joyce

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 6:41 AM, Frederik Sdun
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 I'm one of the GSoC students and work on the answering machine. I
 already use this concept in my project and it uses modules so it might
 be possible to extend it to fit your needs. It's implemented in vala so
 you can use all GLib functionality and more. As far as you can create
 vala bindings for it or you can use C and GObject.

 I just implemented 2 types of connecting rules yet: all of them or one
 of them. Also a complex type might be possible.

 my current rules are:
 -time ( depending on day of week and current time)
 -calendar ( depending on your entries in you calendar )
 -GPS ( depending on a GPS position and a radius around this )
 my current actions are:
 - run a custom command on startup and at the end
 - answer call: yes it is an answering machine
 - answer asterisk call: this should also be answered
 - send sms: send a user defined message to a caller

 Here you can find the class diagram [1]. it will be updated soon.

 Regards,
 Frederik

 [1]: http://v1187.ncsrv.de/classes.jpeg


Frederik,

Can you explain how/where you define the rules?
Also, how are you gathering event information?

Thanks

Matt

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Re: wiki database error

2008-07-21 Thread matt joyce

I also got an error, trying to save a minor change.

Database error

 From Openmoko
Jump to: navigation 
http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Supportaction=submit#column-one, 
search 
http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Supportaction=submit#searchInput
A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in 
the software. The last attempted database query was:

(SQL query hidden)

from within function SearchMySQL4::update. MySQL returned error 126: 
Incorrect key file for table './wikidb/searchindex.MYI'; try to repair 
it (localhost).

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Re: Rules based policy engine

2008-07-21 Thread Matt Joyce

I'd like to see a diagram showing how you envisage this fitting together.

Somethings like :

App1=D=[event handler, current states]=[rules
engine]=[rules]=[rules gui]
App2=B
App3=U
App4=S

I'm not clear on the existing role or use of DBUS, are existing apps
(gsmd, gps, mplayer, contacts, clock, diary, etc) already DBUS aware,
do they publish their events, or states queried?

Matt



On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 4:27 AM, Russell Sears [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I fell out of this discussion for a while, but I'd much rather see a
 very simple C API that delivers events from DBUS with bindings for
 python / your favorite language.  The event system and programming model
 (rule based, prolog, python, ...) should be completely separate modules.
  That way, you don't need to design your application around being able
 to  receive external events.

 Also, if we couple the event system to the programming language, then
 all other languages become second class citizens.  That would suck.

 I'd like to clarify my original post.  (Also, I still haven't looked at
 D-BUS, it might already do most/all of this stuff.)

 These two lines are meant to be function invocations, perhaps in C or in
 python:

 register_event_handler(/phone/incoming_call = true,
 mute_music_callback)

 register_event_handler(/clock/time = 600,
   play_alarm_callback,
 loud_buzzer.ogg)

 register_event_handler() should be a C function that takes three arguments:

 1: A char* containing a query written in a small domain specific
 language.  I don't think we need support for more than:

  a)  =, , , ...
  b)  Conjunction + disjunction;  and ||, which means all of or one
  of these rules match

 The following two would be nice, but might make things harder to implement:

  a)  Parenthesis for grouping
  b)  Negation

 xpath is a well-known language, and is close, though I don't know how
 well existing implementations deal with events (ie: third parties making
 changes to the underlying xml document).  Also, I think xpath is
 probably too complicated.

 2: A function pointer of type void (fcn*)(void *)

 This gets invoked when the evaluation of the query changes from false to
 true.

 3) A void *

 The application program controls what goes in the void*.

 Applications should be able to build all sorts of things with these
 primitives, including new domain specific languages.

 It would be good to make sure that it's easy to have prolog or some
 other rule based system autogenerate and interface to the small domain
 specific language.  I think the way it would work is prolog would use
 some event handlers to maintain a table of facts that the DSL would then
 use as its base database.

 Also, datalog would be a much better choice than prolog.  The outcome of
 prolog programs depends on the order in which rules are defined.  This
 isn't true for datalog, which has cleaner semantics.  The two languages
 have nearly identical syntax.

 -Rusty

 Chris Wright wrote:
  2008/7/20 Ryan Meador [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  I think it's important that we use an existing general-purpose platform 
  such as
  Prolog (at least, it's about as general purpose as logic programming 
  gets...).
 
  I would favor Rhino.DSL, simply because I know it integrates well with
  a language with dbus bindings. And because it can probably result in
  very readable syntax. And it's based on Boo, which is very nearly
  Python, and thus more accessible to most programmers than Prolog.
 
  Does dbus allow you to specify your priority when listening to an
  event, and to prevent it from being published to other listeners? If
  not, then the first step is to separate the relevant dbus events and
  come up with an application that merely translates unconditionally
  between the two. And that allows you to insert any rules engine you
  want.
 


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Re: Rules based policy engine

2008-07-20 Thread matt joyce


Scott Derrick wrote:
 If GPS position is going to be a phone answering rule you would have 
 to have the GPS sub system running all the time. It can't wake from 
 sleep and acquire a position soon enough go be part of the decision. 
 Not sure what that will do to battery life.

 Scot

That's a valid point.
However, if a GPS dependant rule cannot get a fix (because it's off) in 
a timely fashion, the rule fails.

It may be possible to use GSM call towers to give a good enough location 
for these rules.

Looking at this rule again :
'If it can be reliably established that my physical location is one of 
my favourite restaurants please switch my phone to vibrate, unless my 
babysitter calls.'

'reliably' is the operative word here, and I may consider GSM based 
location, reliable.
If a profile switching approach is taken, we could switch to the 
vibrate with exceptions' profile and shutdown GPS.

On the other hand, if always-on GPS is what's needed, then future models 
will have to address the power requirements.
Or, perhaps a case mod for larger batteries is required.

Presumably geo-mappers have this problem already.

Matt

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Re: Rules based policy engine

2008-07-20 Thread matt joyce


Or, perhaps use GSM triangulation to trigger GSP fix acquisition.


Scott Derrick wrote:
 I thought about it awhile and decided that you could have the GPS 
 engine get a fix every 5 minutes or some user adjustable time frame 
 and use the last known fix. 99% of the time it would probably be close 
 enough.

 Scott

 matt joyce wrote:
 Scott Derrick wrote:
 If GPS position is going to be a phone answering rule you would have 
 to have the GPS sub system running all the time. It can't wake from 
 sleep and acquire a position soon enough go be part of the decision. 
 Not sure what that will do to battery life.

 Scot

 That's a valid point.
 However, if a GPS dependant rule cannot get a fix (because it's off) 
 in a timely fashion, the rule fails.

 

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Re: Rules based policy engine

2008-07-20 Thread matt joyce



arne anka wrote:
 It may be possible to use GSM call towers to give a good enough location
 for these rules.
 

 a gsm cell is usually much bigger than most restaurants -- and gps might  
 not be available inhouse.
 btw: a rule that analyses calendar entries and depending of the character  
 of the appointment disables ringing might be sensible.
 thus i only have to select the importance/category of the appointment and  
 not to worry about forgetting to disable the phone.

   

I agree.
An extensible rules system which others developers can hook into would 
allow for this.
The user might just select a phone profile (Do not disturb, except...) 
when they set her calendar appointment, and a rule can be generated, 
without the users becoming a programmer.
A rule might exist, set profile whenever I meet with this contact, and 
the profile is auto-selected when the appointment is made.

Matt

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Re: Rules based policy engine

2008-07-20 Thread Matt Joyce

Sorry, I should have been clearer.

What I meant was, if the rule engine/event broker has geo defendant rules,
it could use GSM towers to ascertain if a GPS fix is required.
This (or other checks, such as calendar, time) can happen prior to any
voice/message events occurring, gsmd would just check for blocking rules
(absence of) on event.

Matt

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 7:51 AM, Scott Derrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Problem there is the rule based engine is trying to decide to answer the
 call, put it to voice mail, vibrate, ring loud, etc...  Waiting 30-60
 seconds for a cold start fix from the GPS is too long.

 Scott

 matt joyce wrote:

 Or, perhaps use GSM triangulation to trigger GSP fix acquisition.


 Scott Derrick wrote:

 I thought about it awhile and decided that you could have the GPS engine
 get a fix every 5 minutes or some user adjustable time frame and use the
 last known fix. 99% of the time it would probably be close enough.


 --

The only security of all is in a free press. The force of public opinion
 cannot be resisted when permitted freely to be expressed. The agitation it
 produces must be submitted to. It is necessary, to keep the waters pure.

Thomas Jefferson to Lafayette, 1823. ME 15:491


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Re: Rules based policy engine

2008-07-20 Thread Matt Joyce

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Ryan Meador [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 matt joyce [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  Ryan, what approach have your efforts taken already?
  Any interesting insights to the problem?
 
  Matt
 

 My efforts as far as applying my inference engine to the OpenMoko platform
 basically consist of a few ideas rattling around in my head -- nothing
 concrete.
  I'm not a professional at this stuff, just an enthusiastic amateur trying
 to
 follow in the footsteps of some of the very interesting early AI research
 projects (most inference-based approaches to AI died out in the 80's, but a
 few
 are still around).  To that end, most of my work has been focused on things
 not
 directly useful to a phone platform.

 I think it's important that we use an existing general-purpose platform
 such as
 Prolog (at least, it's about as general purpose as logic programming
 gets...).
 This saves us from reinventing the wheel and also prevents us from thinking
 ourselves into a corner -- a general purpose system will likely be much
 more
 extensible and flexible for powerusers (and with this device, who isn't?)
 than
 something we dream up.  Taking an inference-based approach to setting up
 the
 rules in the phone could allow us to create rules that are more abstract
 than
 most of the examples I've seen on this list.  Instead of telling it don't
 use
 the ringer when I'm at the office, it could be don't use the ringer when
 I'm
 doing work.  Work would be defined by other rules, such as your
 proximity to
 the office, whether or not you've scheduled an appointment in the calendar
 with
 contacts from work (think lunch meeting), and if you have a deadline that
 isn't
 marked as complete and it's only an hour away (you're probably workign
 furiously
 to meet it).  That's just an example I created just now, and not
 particularly
 good -- good examples are hard to think of, but that's largely because the
 possibilities are endless.  As one other person on the mailing list noted,
 the
 possible configurations of the rules engine that are nonsensical outnumber
 the
 meaningful ones by millions to one :)

 That babbling probably wasn't very helpful to anyone, but maybe it will at
 least
 build enthusiasm.  I think the gist of it was mostly this: make it more
 flexible
 than it needs to be, and also make the rules capable of building on top of
 each
 other to create more complex conditions.  Just my $0.02 :)

 Ryan



I find myself in a real quandary about this.
On the one hand I want more flexibility, more inputs, more actions and such,
because I feel creative uses will emerge from that.
On the other hand my experience as an IT practitioner and technologist,
instinctively tells me to keep it simple.  I've spent most of my IT career
trying to remove or prevent unnecessary complexity.

Matt
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Re: In the press. The OpenMoko wiki - a tangled pile of mostlyoutdated and incomplete documentation.

Yes.
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/022628.html


Josh Monson wrote:
 Has the list been created? The wiki-editors mailing list?

 Michael/Brenda,
 Is there any type of organizational plan at this point in terms of whom
 will be doing what, and will Brenda be coordinating the efforts I
 assume?
 I know this has all come up very quickly so it's totally understandable
 if there is no plan as of yet :P. Just trying to get coordination
 rolling.

 Cheers and thanks again

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve
 Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:24 PM
 To: 'Steven **'; 'List for Openmoko community discussion'
 Cc: 'Brenda Wang'
 Subject: RE: In the press. The OpenMoko wiki - a tangled pile of
 mostlyoutdated and incomplete documentation.

 The issue is the wiki grows like a weed. On one hand this is great since
 information just get posted.
 On the other hand this rhapsodic construction is difficult to navigate. 

 So... Solutions welcomed. 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven
 **
 Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 1:29 PM
 To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 Cc: Brenda Wang; steve
 Subject: Re: In the press. The OpenMoko wiki - a tangled pile of mostly
 outdated and incomplete documentation.

 I'll tell you explicitly.  Go ahead.  It's a wiki!  If anyone doesn't
 like
 your change, they can easily see the history and revert it.  Or just
 clean
 up your change however they like.  That's what makes the wiki so
 powerful.

 If they didn't want you to edit it, I'm pretty sure they could lock it
 down
 so that you can't.  The fact that they haven't seems to mean they aren't
 worried regular users might edit it.

 -Steven

 On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Stroller
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
   
 Hi there,

 I thought to try fixing a small part of this particular problem by 
 editing the main page  adding a link to http://wiki.openmoko.org/ 
 wiki/Distributions

 But I do not see where to put it! Perhaps it should replace the 
 Current software stack link to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ 
 NeoSoftwareStack ??

 Perhaps these 5 categories:
   Introduction to Openmoko
   Openmoko Products
   Join Openmoko development
   Openmoko community
   Getting started with Openmoko Wiki
 should be extended with the addition of Openmoko software?

 Or perhaps I should just get my hands dirty and change the 
 Introduction to Openmoko to include the link to Distributions? As 
 a user I feel reluctant to edit the main page as I feel it belongs
 to Openmoko the company or to Brenda, so you must tell me explicitly 
 if you wish me to feel free.

 Stroller.



 On 17 Jul 2008, at 20:00, steve wrote:

 
 Brenda

   The main page index does not address Scotts issue.

   I second scott's criticism of the wiki. It is not organized well.

   A good start would be a better search engine



 Steve

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brenda 
 Wang
 Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:56 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community discussion
 Subject: Re: In the press. The OpenMoko wiki - a tangled pile of 
 mostly outdated and incomplete documentation.

 Hi, I am wiki full time editor of Openmoko.
 Thank you for your opinion . I will put more effort , to make wiki 
 more easy to use.
 And now , If you want to know what we have on wiki , Please use this 
 Index page.
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page

 Brenda

 Scott Derrick ??:
   
 Perhaps this is what you seek?

 
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions



   
 This is a great page, one of the gems hidden in the bowels of the OM
 

   
 Wiki.

 Its also a great example of whats wrong with the Wiki.

 But how do I find it?  Its not listed on the home page,  not on the
 FreeRunner page,  not on the getting started page?Unless I
 
 search
   
 for exactly teh right word or combinations of words I would never 
 know it existed... The only link I could find, after I knew it 
 existed was Software/distributions/distributions..

 There has to be some kind of boiler plate format for the design and 
 layout of the Wiki so things are easier to find. You can't rely on 
 the search engine, it sucks..

 I think that was the point of the person who recommended the OpenWRT
 

   
 Wiki.  Its design and format was easy to use and helped you find 
 things instead of thwarting you.

 Scott

 
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Re: Dot'n reply above quote


arne anka wrote:
 imho the number of people adverse to top postings equals more or less the  
 number of people being annoyed by down-postings.
 just recently i got mail over 4 pages (with  a screen 19200x1200 and 11px  
 font!) with just one (and above all rather meaninmgless) sentence below.

 ususally i know from the subject and a short glance a) what the thread was  
 about or b) if i am inclined to read the mail.

   

Agreed.

 this top/down is not going to solve anything ... there are imho two rules  
 to be observed instead:
 - use meaningful subjects
 - quote only what is absolutely necessary

   
A little common sense and curtsy, go along way.


 and btw: for the sake of future generations and the archive:
 _never_ do something like oh! i found a solution! it's here:  
 http://someoutsideurl. bye
 there is little more annoying but searching the archives for a specific  
 problem, hitting a solved-post and seeing it points to a dead link w/o  
 citing the solution!

   

A third must have rule should be; don't be lazy start a new thread.
Top/Bottom might annoy some people, but thread-jacking has a lasting 
consequence.  It really is an irksome practice.

Matt

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Re: Reply above Quotation


Mike wrote:
 Scott Derrick wrote:
   
 If your going to quote the email your replying to, please reply above 
 the quotation.

 Its hard enough wading through 300 emails a day without having to page 
 down to see the reply.

 Scott

 

 Are you with openmoko?? Do you have any authority? You don't have an 
 openmoko address.


   
Authority?!
You have to be joking.

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Re: Reply above Quotation


 OK so let's take this to the extreme- if I were to post something like 
 From now on, the official rule is, no one can use the word 'code' on 
 this mailing list.  You would be wrong to ask me if I had any 
 authority, right?  

No, I would just ignore it.

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Re: Interesting portable keyboard



Jörgen Lidholm wrote:
 On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 7:31 PM, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 just saw this reference to a small keyboard that may work with Freerunner.

 http://theburtonreport.blogspot.com/2008/06/ultra-slim-mobile-keyboard.html
 Comments?
 

 Quite nice keyboard, rather slim. Wonder how it feels to type on.

 Have a look at this one, http://www.senseboard.com/

 /Jörgen

   
It might be great, but the acolade is 'Best of COMDEX Fall 2001', and I 
have not heard or seen of it in the last 7 years.
The palm in the photos is seriously obsolete.

Ok, perhaps they aren't great at marketing.
There is a 2008 development system, so I suppose it's still a current 
product.


Matt

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Re: Rules based policy engine



Ryan Meador wrote:
 Steven Kurylo [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

   
 The problem with this is that one needs to think like a programmer to
 describe your ideal phone as a set of rules like these. Not only does
 one have to think analytically and dissect their concept into orthogonal,
 machine-checkable rules, but from your examples it's also clear that for
 such a wide range of possibilities a whole *language* with *expressions*
 (at least boolean) is necessary.
   
 I see it as something like sieve.  Its a pretty full language for
 writing rules.  I, as a programmer, I do almost anything I want.  For
 the non-programmers there are various GUIs which allow you to do all
 the simple tasks with a couple clicks.  In fact filter email is fairly
 similar: if these three things are true, do X.  Then I have a stack of
 rules and it goes through them one at time until one is true.

 xpath might work.  There are a few options, though I would try to stay
 away from writing our own if it can be helps.  A plan old python class
 might be enough with function for each possible condition.

 


 I think what we're looking for here is Prolog (or something very similar). 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prolog.  I'd be very interested in contributing 
 to
 (and using!) a rule-based system such as this.  In addition to providing an
 inference-based rules engine written in first order predicate logic, it has 
 the
 unique ability of adding rules with side effects (basically executing native
 code) when certain things happen... I think it would work nicely (it basically
 is for this purpose).  I already had plans to create a rule-based system for 
 the
 moko myself (an adaptation of a prolog-like inference system that I already 
 have
 under construction).  Due to the memory and processing constraints on the moko
 and the desire to reuse code whenever possible (which I agree with
 wholeheartedly), I think going with Prolog is probably a better choice than
 trying to finish my hacked-together and unproven inference engine.

 Now if only my Freerunner would arrive... dunno why it's been delayed by a 
 week
 before shipping.

 Ryan Meador


 __

Ryan, what approach have your efforts taken already?
Any interesting insights to the problem?

Matt

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Re: Rules based policy engine

2008-07-18 Thread matt joyce



Guillaume Chereau wrote:
 This is one of the thing I am planning to add in the framework (FSO
 project), although for the moment we don't focus on it too much.

 I agree with Alexey as well, the danger is to create something so
 configurable, that at the end your setting become a python script.

 My idea for the moment is like this :
 You can define a set of condition to specify the profile. For example :
 if at my girl friend house, profile = Paranoid

 Then you the application configurations can depend on the profile. e.g :
 If profile is Paranoid, girl_friend_number_2.block_calls = True

 This way, the profile is the link between the conditions set and the
 actions set. The number of profiles is not supposed to be too large.

 It is more restrictive that Russel idea, because you can't say :
 if time = 600, then play alarm.

 The only way to do so would be :
 if time = 600, then profile = RunAlarm
 if profile is RunAlarm, then alarm.run = True

 Which is not really useful, you don't want to create one profile for
 every events combination you can think of.

 I can see several cases where this way of doing is not the best, but I
 still think it is the most suitable for most practical cases.

 -charlie

   
Profiles, recipes, rulesets; I think we all talking about the same 
thing, behaviours.
It boils down to detecting a set of conditions and instructing the phone 
to behaviour in a certain way.

Profiles are an excellent way of describing a group of common phone 
settings.  (settings the call handling services already respect)
People are familiar with the concept, they could be described by setting 
a phone using normal method and saving them.
Perhaps if there was a default profile, and we only store differences, 
the delta, in other profiles, we could have cumulative profiles.
That might help with the tedium of setting up every permutation and keep 
the number of profile down.

Profiles are really just a bunch of SET actions.
I still see the need for an event broker of sorts, something that will 
detect conditions and trigger actions.
Perhaps the profile switcher (as some else mentioned) could be enhanced 
for that purpose.
An alarm might just be a custom action, just another action.  'Run a 
shell command' might be the only action we need.

Another poster mentioned interacting with his MythTV, one approach might 
be to configure the MythTV to run web server with some cgi. 
The phone would just use http to instigate commands.  wget?

If we had profiles and an event broker, all we need next is some 
standard way to describe the set of conditions.
I'm no hardcore coder, but it seem well within the realms of possibilities.

I still favour a scriptable solution, even is it wrapped in UI and 
machine generated.

Regards

Matt







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Re: Rules based policy engine

2008-07-18 Thread matt joyce


 However, I would've thought that if every application can generate and
 consume 'events', then all that is needed in your policy app is the
 ability to look for combinations of events (and/or states?) and generate
 new events that other apps can pick up?  Is that what you were thinking.

   
Yes.

 This has the downside that all of the 'intelligence' is in an external
 script/rules engine and not in the apps.  That might be an 'upside'. 
 Alternatively, each 'rule' could be it's own script which waits on
 certain events and then fires out new events that are picked up by the
 other applications to do things.

   
As I see it the trouble with each rule being an isolated process, or 
script, is that conflict detection might become a bit of a headache.


 Love the idea, though.

 Cheers
 Alex.

   
Thank you

Matt

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Re: In the press. The OpenMoko wiki - a tangled pile of mostly outdated and incomplete documentation.

2008-07-17 Thread matt joyce



AVee wrote:
 On Thursday 17 July 2008 23:35, Dotan Cohen wrote:
   
 2008/7/17 Brenda Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
 Hi, I am wiki full time editor of Openmoko.
 Thank you for your opinion . I will put more effort , to make wiki more
 easy to use.
 And now , If you want to know what we have on wiki , Please use this
 Index page.
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page

 Brenda
   
 I'm going to upset some people with this post, but I think it's
 necessary. When I speak English, I make a conscious effort to be clear
 and to use correct grammar. That is because when non-native English
 speakers must communicate in English we often have trouble with the
 sentence structure and lack of gender to identify subjects.

 I think that whoever maintains the wiki should have a very firm grasp
 of English grammar. Not necessarily a native speaker (as they often
 have bad grammar in my opinion, probably because they have no trouble
 deciphering the meaning of the sentence anyway). I mean no offense,
 Brenda, but English with Asian  grammar (I'm assuming Asian based on
 the grammar style and your last name) is very difficult to read and
 understand. I hope that my criticism is seen as constructive and not
 personal, because I mean no offense yet I'd like to see the wiki
 maintained by someone more qualified.
 

 I think you do raise a valid point. However, I also think it perfectly ok to 
 seperate the purely content related redaction from the linguistic issues. As 
 far as I can see there is absolutely no problem with the content itself. 
 Maybe someone should proofread it before it's posted. Or after it is posted, 
 it's a wiki after all, you really should just correct any errors you find.

 AVee

   
We should encourage people to dump their knowledge, if it's accurate, 
it's valuable.Spelling and grammar are quick edits.
I would hate to think someone wants to contribute but doesn't because 
they feel their language skills aren't good enough.

Useful content will attract more eyes, which in turn will improve the 
likelihood of errors being spotted.

I for one, am a shocking typist and have appalling spelling but my 
grammar is reasonable.  Hoorah for little red lines under words.


Matt

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Rules based policy engine

2008-07-17 Thread matt joyce

I have always wanted many more features on my phone, than any phone I've 
owned has provided.
I expect the majority of people who are excited about Openmoko have 
similar day dreams.

I'd like to propose a rule based policy engine.
In essence this would be an event based system, a service that other 
services could refer to, to influence their behaviour.

These devices are inherently personal, just as other computing devices 
are, so it reasonable to expect everyone will have slightly different 
requirements.
The problem with a great many people wanting specific features, or 
personal requirements, is that some will be realised and some will not.
Some requirements might be very similar, but not quite right, and some 
features may compete unproductively, clash.

By creating a rule based policy engine, I think it would be possible to 
give the user the ability to describe the way their phone should work, 
for them, without each feature being developed for them.

Here are some examples of how I would like use this concept to make my 
phone more personal, and how I would like to teach my phone to be smart.

   If it can be reliably established that my physical location is one of 
my favourite restaurants please switch my phone to vibrate, unless my 
babysitter calls.
   If I miss a call or I receive an SMS from from any of my work 
contacts during work hours, and I don't respond, please remind me.
   If it's not during work hours, do not take any calls from contacts 
exclusively in my work contacts.
   If my home wifi is available and my battery is not too low, don't use 
GPRS for data.
   If it a WEEKDAY and 06:00, turn on, play alarm, connect to WIFI and 
start getting email and rss.
   At 21:00 on weekdays, switch to standby.
   If my battery is low and I'm at home, remind me to charge.
   If I'm at home disable my auto-lock.

Some rules would be permanent, some would be one off
   If John's phone is detected via bluetooth, please let me know (I need 
to see him, when he comes in.)
   Do not disturb until 13:00 (I need to get some work done)
   No calls until this contact calls me (I'm expecting an urgent call)
   Loud volume for the next hour (It's noisy here)
   Silent for an hour (meeting)

Some events might be :
- In/out calls, sms, emails
- Arriving/departing somewhere
- Enter/leave a time period
- Discovery/loss of a bluetooth device (infer person is nearby/left)
- Discovery/loss of a WIFI

Similarly ,states which could be queried might be :
- Call in progress
- Location is within a defines area
- Time is in a period
- Battery is low
- USB is connected

Some definitions
- Groups of contacts
- Lists of GPS co-ords
- time periods

Some actions
- Answer/Don't answer call
- Set volume profile
- switch on/off
- start/stop an application
- manipulate hardware

It would be quite similar to rule based filters many email systems use 
(outlook, thunderbird, gmail, procmail), or firewalls for that matter.
Who knows, perhaps it could learn and suggest rules based on behaviour.

I'm sure creative people can explore and extend this idea.
Does anyone think this has merit, is achievable and worth pursuing?

Regards

Matt


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Re: Rules based policy engine

2008-07-17 Thread Matt Joyce

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 9:59 AM, Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 01:01:08 +0200, matt joyce [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

If it can be reliably established that my physical location is one of
my favourite restaurants please switch my phone to vibrate, unless my
babysitter calls.
If I miss a call or I receive an SMS from from any of my work
contacts during work hours, and I don't respond, please remind me.
If it's not during work hours, do not take any calls from contacts
exclusively in my work contacts.
If my home wifi is available and my battery is not too low, don't use
GPRS for data.
If it a WEEKDAY and 06:00, turn on, play alarm, connect to WIFI and
start getting email and rss.
At 21:00 on weekdays, switch to standby.
If my battery is low and I'm at home, remind me to charge.
If I'm at home disable my auto-lock.

The problem with this is that one needs to think like a programmer to
describe your ideal phone as a set of rules like these.

Programmers are people too. :)

Not only does
one have to think analytically and dissect their concept into orthogonal,
machine-checkable rules, but from your examples it's also clear that for
such a wide range of possibilities a whole *language* with *expressions*
(at least boolean) is necessary.

Yes, this is precisely what I want, although it need not be overly complex.
Thunderbird's filter system is easy enough, MokoRules would be more complex,
but the process can be broken down into small steps.
http://opensourcearticles.com/nidelven/website/articles/thunderbird_15/english/part_07_images/1126606659X51

I've always thought Outlook's rules wizard was pretty good.
http://pubs.logicalexpressions.com/pub0009/LPMArticle.asp?ID=415

I'm frequently impressed by non-technical staff at work, who write rules to
make their outlook work for them.

Moreover, if one *is* a programmer, and has learned the rule expression
language, there will be bugs in the rulesets, like overlooked priorities
or excessively permissive conditions, and you'll spend some time debugging
it, probably missing a few important calls and alarms now and then in the
process. Next step would be debugging tools for rulesets, allowing to
simulate times of day, different conditions and incoming events to test
the rules. Next, backup and revision control for rulesets. This is where
madness lies: you have to modify and debug a program in a declarative
logic language when you start dating someone because it breaks all your
carefully polished ruleset.

Agreed. This is about granularity, and the examples I gave were off the
cuff and may well be unworkable in RL.
Sanity check can be developed too, and packaged in groups to meet the needs
for Novice, Competent, Pro.
Freedom to make mistakes.

Sounds like a topic for XKCD. Randall, are you
by any chance reading this?

I know what you mean.

I understand that you must be thinking, This phone is fully programmable,
so I can make it do whatever I want. True. Now, by defining sets of
possible conditions and actions and letting the user make rules out of
these, you're basically saying: Here is a computer. You can program it to
do whatever you want. While this might be usable for someone who is a
programmer (and who's willing to be a programmer when they deal with their
cell phone), it's not a killer application. It's an absence of
application; it's rather an interpreter for a programming language in
which a user can write themself a killer application.

Yes, that's what I want, I'd be happy with text config files to start with.
Even an offline webapp to make/test the rules, is not disagreeable to me.
People could publish their recipes, rulesets.

The key to making a phone do what you, I or someone else wants is rather
in analyzing our requirements and figuring out what parts are constant and
what are changing. Of course, all people want different things, and the
same person wants different things at different times. But the number of
dimensions in the space of all reasonable people's demands is still much
less than that of the space of all possible rulesets. Only a small subset
of all possible rules, let alone rulesets, makes any sense at all, while
the vast majority is nonsensical, such as When WiFi is available and
John's phone is nearby, mute all calls, or If I have unread SMS on
Thursday, prefer GPRS. Analyzing and isolating the axes of user demands
is much harder than developing a ruleset-driven engine, but at least it
has a chance of becoming usable.

This reminds me of a Richard Dawkins quote, speaking about the search space
of DNA, But, however many ways there may be of being alive, it is certain
that there are vastly more ways of being dead, or rather not alive.

I think what your saying is that the more variables there are, the more
possibilities of non-useful, or counter productive rules there will be.
If you are, then I

Re: Rules based policy engine

2008-07-17 Thread Matt Joyce

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Steven Kurylo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

  The problem with this is that one needs to think like a programmer to
  describe your ideal phone as a set of rules like these. Not only does
  one have to think analytically and dissect their concept into orthogonal,
  machine-checkable rules, but from your examples it's also clear that for
  such a wide range of possibilities a whole *language* with *expressions*
  (at least boolean) is necessary.

 I see it as something like sieve.  Its a pretty full language for
 writing rules.  I, as a programmer, I do almost anything I want.  For
 the non-programmers there are various GUIs which allow you to do all
 the simple tasks with a couple clicks.  In fact filter email is fairly
 similar: if these three things are true, do X.  Then I have a stack of
 rules and it goes through them one at time until one is true.

 xpath might work.  There are a few options, though I would try to stay
 away from writing our own if it can be helps.  A plan old python class
 might be enough with function for each possible condition.


Sieve - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieve_(mail_filtering_language)
xpath - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XPath
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Re: Wiki search

2008-07-17 Thread matt joyce

Perhaps it's the databse config, not the wiki.
http://kb.ucla.edu/articles/configuring-mediawiki-to-search-for-three-letter-words


BrendaWang wrote:
 Can you give me the more information about modify the configuration ?
 That will be great help.

 Thenks

 Brenda

 Sven Klomp ??:
   
 Dear Brenda,

 please modify the configuration of the Openmoko wiki, so queries with less 
 than four letters can be found. It might be helpful with all the 
 abbreviations like ASU, FSO, SHR :-)

 Thanks
 Sven
   
 


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Re: Can OM's wiki be used offline?

2008-07-16 Thread matt joyce

That look so neat.

john wrote:
 A project I was on had a similar requirement of being able to search
 and read documents offline on the iPhone *snarl*. Anyway, what I did
 was port an excellent open source search engine called hyper estraier
 [1] over to the iPhone and used that on various kinds of documents. As
 a test I indexed over 2000 PDFs from MIT OpenCourseWare. It works
 really well [2]. I used lighttpd for the web server. All these
 technologies will work fine on the 1973/Freerunner. If there is an
 interest in this I could package it up for Openmoko. There is also
 potential for developing a native GUI local search tool using hyper
 estraier because it comes with a C API and other language bindings.
 This would remove the web server dependency.

 John.

 [1] http://hyperestraier.sourceforge.net/
 [2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKKlkcZ6vYo

 2008/7/14 Yaroslav Halchenko [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
   
 Hi All,

 In the sight of upcoming delivery of our 10-pack, we wanted to get ready
 to do some testing on the spot, ie when we get together and open our
 boxes, to power then up and try to make sure that all of them work in
 the 'similar' fashion (GPS, GSM, etc) so if there is a defective unit,
 we could localize it easily since we will have a few of them and a few
 of SIM cards to try ;-)

 But if smth doesn't work, of cause, the best way is to lookup on the
 wiki and we will not have (I think) internet connection on the spot. I
 thought if it is possible to gently (smth not like wget -m
 http://www.openmoko.org) obtain a copy of openmoko.org's mediawiki
 content.

 Brief googling lead me to few possible solutions (unfortunately
 not non-intrusive into openmoko's wiki setup) such as

 Mediawiki offline (thanks to Google Gears):
 http://wiki.yobi.be/wiki/Mediawiki_LocalServer

 But I wonder may be there is simpler/better ones like a dump of DB
 without account information credentials, etc? Something like what
 wikipedia offers
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download
 (which they actually closed and I see the reason with their sizes), but
 they also seems to have a workaround
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikix


 --
 Yaroslav Halchenko
 Research Assistant, Psychology Department, Rutgers-Newark
 Student  Ph.D. @ CS Dept. NJIT
 Office: (973) 353-5440x263 | FWD: 82823 | Fax: (973) 353-1171
101 Warren Str, Smith Hall, Rm 4-105, Newark NJ 07102
 WWW: http://www.linkedin.com/in/yarik

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Re: GPS problems, summary

2008-07-16 Thread Matt Manjos

Thank you for such an informative summary.

Matt

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 3:38 PM, Alasal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 A summary of everything related to the GPS problem.

 Does the people of Openmoko know the problem?
  - Yes.

 Do they work on the problem?
  - Yes, they are actively searching for a solution.

 What is the problem?
  - The Openmoko Freerunner have a long TTFF with the SD card in the phone.
 So it takes a long time (10min+) before you get your first GPS data.

 Wat is TTFF?
  - This is the time to first fix of the GPS. This is the time the GPS has
 needed to get the first clue on where you are on planet earth. So you have
 to do this only once. After you have a FF (first fix), you can get more
 fixes without any problems with the SD card in the phone.

 So if we have a first fix, the SD card isn't blocking the GPS anymore?
  - yes, the SD card isn't blocking the GPS if we have a first fix. (Some
 people even claim it's more stable)

 Does they have a solution?
  - yes. Their is already a highly alpha software workaround. The software
 just disables the SD card when the GPS tries to get it's first fix They are
 also examine a hardware solution.

 Do we have to return our Freerunners to Openmoko?
  - Probably not, because the software workaround should work too.

 But we can't read of the SD card when the GPS is on?
  - Wrong, you will be able to read the SD card when the GPS is on. You will
 probably not be able to read the SD card when you're starting the GPS (appr.
 30 sec), because the GPS will only block the SD card when it's searching
 it's first fix. After that you will be able to read the SD card again.

 Is their a better software solution?
  - Maybe. From reading the mailing list, I have understood that half the
 Openmoko team is looking into this bug. All this information is only 1 à 2
 days old and the bug is also young, so I suspect they can finetune the
 software workaround and make it only slowdown the SD card or even better.

 Did Openmoko test the GPS with a SD card in it?
  - yes

 Whey didn't they find it while testing the Freerunner?
  - Because they have to do the tests with a fake GPS signal and with that
 signal it worked. (In a fab you haven't a decent GPS signal) They already
 have modified the test, so it correspond the GPS signal better.

 Summary of the summary:
 You will be able to use the SD card in the same time of the GPS except for
 the first appr 30 seconds. (And that's the worst case, because maybe
 Openmoko can find better hacks/fixes)

 ps: I have read all the mails about the GPS problem, but I'm still human. If
 there is a fault or wrong conclusion in this summary, please let the
 community know.

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Re: In the press

2008-07-15 Thread Matt Joyce

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Jay Vaughan wrote:
  This stood out for me The tangled pile of mostly outdated and
  incomplete documentation at the OpenMoko wiki...
  Is this an accurate evaluation of the wiki ?
  If so, what can we do to fix it up, how do we identify old content
  and schedule it for updating?
 
 
  I think, personally, its time for a 3rd-party site not related to
  OpenMoko to pick up the slack here. So much stuff happens too quickly
  for people who /should/ be updating the wiki to feel like its
  productive to do so ..
 
  What I would like to see is something like an mokofanboix.org
  website come up that has the following:
 
  - Daily blog news akin to the good ol' slashdot, of news from the
  openmoko scene, gleaned from careful inspection of the mailing lists,
  of IRC, of the codebase, of code delta's, etc.
 
  - Public free Repository of all the latest and greatest 'cool apps'
  found for OpenMoko
 
  - Public forum for discussion of the news.
 
  This is, of course, sorta what we've got with things like
  planet.openmoko.org (which I check daily), combined with the
  Scaredycat repo's and other such things, but ..  for newcomers .. I
  don't think any of this is as easily approachable as it would be if it
  were all put under a single umbrella that is a bit more of an
  'openmoko pop culture' site than what we've got right now ..

 Jay

 These are all great ideas and would be very helpful for us. We are a
 small company. And really try to focus all we can on our products.
 Community help to make these more approachable is something that would
 make us all very grateful.

 Let me know if there is anything specific you think we (Openmoko) could
 do to help get this all started.

   -Sean


My take on the problem is that if a new user searches for information, and
finds something promising but it turns out to be wrong, or out of date, they
will probably not update it.
Once they find the information they may not remember (or be inclined) to go
back and update it.

What new user is going to start off by editing an article about stuff they
don't know?

Perhaps one method of identifying information, it to have a simple way to
flagging an article as 'needs checking'.
Wiki moderators and the community at large could focus their efforts there.

MJ
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Re: $106 in Brokerage!!?!!?!

2008-07-15 Thread Matt Manjos

I know what you mean. $106 for a $400 phone is a hell of a lot but
imagine paying $90 on a $125 PDA battery/cf jacket, like I had to a
few years ago.

NEVER again am I shipping with UPS, if I can avoid it. I've found
their brokerage fees are almost always applied and they're always
ridiculous.

Matt

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 8:28 PM, Ben Cadieux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 UPS wants $106 in brokerage.  Are they out of their minds?

 (I'm in BC, Canada, by the way).  I should've shipped it across the
 border.  If I have the item returned, would you guys ship it again for
 me, say across the border this time? (I'll pay shipping again, of
 course...)

 Best Regards,
 Ben Cadieux

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Re: Reason for GPS problems found!

2008-07-15 Thread Matt Joyce

Firstly I don't have much of an issue with the way things have been handled
so far.
In fact the closeness of the users, the community, the developers, the
engineers and management, just strengthen my resolve that Open Source phones
are the way to go. (I'm finding the resolution process fascinating.  Really
quite thrilling.)

With regards to disseminating official information such as the various
useful posts from Joerg and friends, I think posting to an official Openmoko
blog would be better, and then posting links to the blogs on the lists.

As good as lists are, the noise/signal (no pun, or irony intended) can hide
the quality information.

For something as evocative as this GPS/SD issue, I'd like to see at *least*
daily updates posted to an official website or blog (not wiki).
Even if those updates just say, Still working on this problem, next update
in 24 hours..

Bravo so far, fingers crossed for an acceptable fix.

Matt

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:22 AM, Wolfgang Spraul [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Alejandro -

  This issue does not look good. Is there someone in Openmoko or FIC
  aware of it?

 Aware of it? You must be kidding.
 Pretty much everybody at Openmoko, including Sean our beloved leader,
 reads the mailing lists. All mailing lists.
 Then we have internal mailing lists, and if you could see what's going
 on there right now, rest assured there are 5-10 people working on
 tracking down the GPS bug, and other bugs, right now.
 Software fixes, hardware fixes. Shipped units, units currently in
 production, future production runs. All require different approaches
 and all of this is being addressed.
 The idea that the GPS problems might be related to SD card presence
 was a fantastic idea, and coming from our community!

 After the gta02 release dust settles, I will take another look at how
 we can make our internal communication more public. It's all too easy
 that good things are going on and people don't know about.
 Expect to see more in the coming days.
 Best Regards,
 Wolfgang

 On Jul 15, 2008, at 10:30 PM, Alejandro Enrique wrote:

  This issue does not look good. Is there someone in Openmoko or FIC
  aware of it?
 
  If it is something that has to be fixed in hardware it may have a big
  impact in the project at this stage.
 
  I hope there will be some software workaround for this.
 
  2008/7/15 Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  On the 1973?!
 
  Yup.
 
  None of us can confirm this, our 1973 are mostly ok, only the
  Freerunners make problems.
 
 
  I do not have a Freerunner yet.  But for sure, without the SD card
  in,
  GPS seems to acquire faster.
 
  ;
  --
  Jay Vaughan
 
 
 
 
 
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  --
  Alejandro Enrique
 
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Re: Wiki editors

2008-07-15 Thread Matt Joyce

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 8:54 AM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

Michael Shiloh wrote:
I will help support you in any way I can. Yes, we can absolutely set up
a mailing list for you to coordinate amongst yourselves. I will also
make myself more immediately available to the wiki editors, so that
questions can be answered as rapidly as possible.

Hiya Michael,

Quick question: what exactly is Brenda's role?

http://openmoko.markmail.org/search/?q=brenda#query:brenda%20date%3A200802%20+page:1+mid:cancdihaeug2s7x2+state:results
This leads me to believe it's Brenda's full-time job (as in,
employment), to be the wiki editor, organize the articles, etc., so we
certainly would value her insights and opinions. We certainly aren't
trying to muscle in on her territory, but just willing to lend a hand to
what is a daunting, gigantic challenge of finding and editing a LOT of
information.

Secondly, Michael can you coordinate with whoever is in charge of the
wiki software to include the plugin I mentioned last night:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DumpHTML

One of my own agenda points as a wiki editor is to get an
offline-capable version of the wiki available for download to install on
the SD card -- perhaps we could even build it up as an opkg
documentation bundle or something. That'd be slick, with opkg update
opkg upgrade being able to upgrade the documentation on the phone.

Wiki editors, do you have a request for the list name? How about
openmoko-wiki-editors?

Since openmoko is already in the domain name, perhaps just
[EMAIL PROTECTED] would be sufficient?

-id

Just [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wiki-editors sounds like an official title and that may dissuade people from
joining.
Also, surely this list would not exclude wiki-reviews,
wiki-graphic-designers, wiki-proofreaders, etc.

Matt
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Re: Can OM's wiki be used offline?

2008-07-14 Thread Matt Joyce

mokopedia brings the whole wikipedia to your openmoko phone even while being
offline because all articles will reside on an attached microSD card.
http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/mokopedia/


On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 8:00 AM, Kurt Snieckus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 GNU wget can recurse and download a site.
 http://www.editcorp.com/Personal/Lars_Appel/wget/wget_3.html
 http://blog.theunixgeek.org/?p=18
 -Kurt


 On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Yaroslav Halchenko site-openmoko.org@
 onerussian.com wrote:

 Hi All,

 In the sight of upcoming delivery of our 10-pack, we wanted to get ready
 to do some testing on the spot, ie when we get together and open our
 boxes, to power then up and try to make sure that all of them work in
 the 'similar' fashion (GPS, GSM, etc) so if there is a defective unit,
 we could localize it easily since we will have a few of them and a few
 of SIM cards to try ;-)

 But if smth doesn't work, of cause, the best way is to lookup on the
 wiki and we will not have (I think) internet connection on the spot. I
 thought if it is possible to gently (smth not like wget -m
 http://www.openmoko.org) obtain a copy of openmoko.org's mediawiki
 content.

 Brief googling lead me to few possible solutions (unfortunately
 not non-intrusive into openmoko's wiki setup) such as

 Mediawiki offline (thanks to Google Gears):
 http://wiki.yobi.be/wiki/Mediawiki_LocalServer

 But I wonder may be there is simpler/better ones like a dump of DB
 without account information credentials, etc? Something like what
 wikipedia offers
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download
 (which they actually closed and I see the reason with their sizes), but
 they also seems to have a workaround
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikix


 --
 Yaroslav Halchenko
 Research Assistant, Psychology Department, Rutgers-Newark
 Student  Ph.D. @ CS Dept. NJIT
 Office: (973) 353-5440x263 | FWD: 82823 | Fax: (973) 353-1171
101 Warren Str, Smith Hall, Rm 4-105, Newark NJ 07102
 WWW: http://www.linkedin.com/in/yarik

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 http://sneaktime.net -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- 1.609.297.8828
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Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing

2008-07-12 Thread matt joyce

It will depend of the amount and type of activity and size of files.

I like the look of nilfs or logfs,but I'm not sure they are available or 
even mature enough.

Flyin_bbb8 wrote:
 So what's the best filesystem to use on our microSDs?

 On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 12:51 AM, Mikko Rauhala 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 pe, 2008-07-11 kello 15:44 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer kirjoitti:
  Checking you're right.  I could swear I saw early on that the
  whole reason jffs2 was used on the GTA01 was because SD didn't do
  that.  So anybody know why it was used?

 Bee-cause the internal flash is not SD but raw flash, on both Neos?

 --
 Mikko Rauhala   - [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -
 URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/
 Transhumanist   - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/
 Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/




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Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing

2008-07-11 Thread matt joyce

I found a Sandisk Micro SD 8gb on the pavement today.
It was full of *.nds files, Nintendo DS roms I think.

Will it work in the FR?

ian douglas wrote:
 Hey all,

 Got my 8GB SanDisk 8GB micro SDHC card [1] in a few minutes ago, popped
 it into my GTA02v5 (beta tester model) Freerunner and running a few
 tests on it. So far, so good.

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# mount | grep media
 /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/card type vfat
 (rw,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1)

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# df -h | grep media
 /dev/mmcblk0p17.6G 32.0k  7.6G   0% /media/card

 If anything weird comes up in my testing, I'll let everyone know.

 -id


 [1] http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171320

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Re: In the press

2008-07-11 Thread matt joyce



Jay Vaughan wrote:
 This stood out for me The tangled pile of mostly outdated and  
 incomplete documentation at the OpenMoko wiki...
 Is this an accurate evaluation of the wiki ?
 If so, what can we do to fix it up, how do we identify old content  
 and schedule it for updating?
 


 I think, personally, its time for a 3rd-party site not related to  
 OpenMoko to pick up the slack here. So much stuff happens too quickly  
 for people who /should/ be updating the wiki to feel like its  
 productive to do so ..

 What I would like to see is something like an mokofanboix.org  
 website come up that has the following:

 - Daily blog news akin to the good ol' slashdot, of news from the  
 openmoko scene, gleaned from careful inspection of the mailing lists,  
 of IRC, of the codebase, of code delta's, etc.

 - Public free Repository of all the latest and greatest 'cool apps'  
 found for OpenMoko

 - Public forum for discussion of the news.

 This is, of course, sorta what we've got with things like  
 planet.openmoko.org (which I check daily), combined with the  
 Scaredycat repo's and other such things, but ..  for newcomers .. I  
 don't think any of this is as easily approachable as it would be if it  
 were all put under a single umbrella that is a bit more of an  
 'openmoko pop culture' site than what we've got right now ..

 ;
 --
 Jay Vaughan


   

I agree.
Regardless though, an out of date wiki is not helpful.

What approaches can we take to fix up the wiki


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Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing

2008-07-11 Thread matt joyce



Federico Lorenzi wrote:
 On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 3:56 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 So interestingly enough, writes were slower on ext3 than vfat on the
 512MB card.
 

 Makes sense, ext3 is journaled, and using a journaling FS on flash
 memory is generally a bad idea. Could you also try ext2?

 Thanks,
 Federico

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I had some performance issues using ssd on my laptops a while back. At 
the time I couldn't find much out about the various merits of different 
filesystems and block sizes.
I recently searched again and found this document : 
http://www.usenix.org/event/lsf08/tech/shin_SSD.pdf

Looking thought charts ( I wish there was a podcast), it looks like a 
4kb block size is best, and nilfs performance best as the filesystem.

nilfs  http://www.nilfs.org/en/
here's an interesting thread on using nilfs on ssd
http://www.nilfs.org/pipermail/users/2008-February/000188.html

Is nilfs availble for openmoko ?

Regards

Matt

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Re: Number of GTA02s ordered as of 10 Jul 2008

2008-07-10 Thread Matt Luzum

Steven Kurylo wrote:
 I think you're pretty low.  In another thread someone said their OM
 store tracking number was 1087.  Mine is in the 1600s.  While there
 are some assumptions there, it strongly indecates they've shipped 600
 from their store alone.

Also note that presumably the 10-packs are each only assigned 1 order 
number, so those 600 order numbers represent more than 600 phones.

Out of curiosity, how long ago did you place your order (with order 
number in the 1600s)?

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In the press

2008-07-10 Thread Matt Joyce

I found this yesterday, thought it was quite an ok article.
http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/open-moko-software.ars

This stood out for me *The tangled pile of mostly outdated and incomplete
documentation at the OpenMoko wiki*...
Is this an accurate evaluation of the wiki ?
If so, what can we do to fix it up, how do we identify old content and
schedule it for updating?

Matt
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Re: VMWare Freerunner Flash



Johan Badenhorst wrote:
 Hi guys,

 I was just wondering if anyone has flashed their Freerunners using 
 VMWare Player on Windows and if that would even be possible?  
 Alternatively would it be possible to use colinux or a similar tool?  
 I've been developing for Maemo using VMWare successfully because I am 
 stuck without a linux machine at present.  The Internet Tablets have a 
 Windows flashing tool though, so I've never had to attempt to flash 
 from a virtual machine. 

 If this isn't an option I'll use a live CD.

 Thanks for any response and good luck to all the other developers out 
 there getting ready for the arrival of your freerunners

 e


I don't have experience of VMWare with a Freerunner, but in my 
experience vmware (windows free version) usb devices can be problematic.
It's been a while, but I think you need to have the vm in focus when you 
connect the device, and the device should be connect after the vm boots.
Trivial to try, so please let us know what works.

Matt

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Re: questions about our mailinglists



Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
 Hi,

 On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 5:08 AM, Matt Joyce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 Dear Community
   
 Would there be any support for prefixing the subject with the list names ?
 eg [openmoko-community]
 It's a trivial enough to implement with Mailman (the system being used).
 

 No, please don't do that. I repeat: please do not mess with the subject lines!
 To see why, look at the list archives about a year back.

   
I looked but other than some mild munging of some subjects, I can't see 
what you're referring to.
I personally have been subbed to numerous mailing lists which [do this], 
and I have not had a bad experience worthy of the anxiety you seem to 
suggest.

Can you elaborate please (not for the sake of debate, I'm just curious 
how I have missed the pitfalls for so many years)?

MJ

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Re: GPS


 Not really my idea of quite accurate!
 

 It's just initialisation data. More accurate will probably be better, but 
 20km 
 of doesn't sound that bad. It sure is *way* better than not even knowing 
 which hemisphere you're in. 

 Actually it think just knowing which country your in will make a big 
 difference allready. We could consider devising a list of country/location 
 data, assuming we can get country information from the GSM network (or the 
 SIM card perhaps?). Just adding this to the GPS initialisation might allready 
 reduce the time needed to get a fix hugely.

 AVee

   
I'm not sure what capacity there is to connect via VPNs, but they could 
make a device appear to be in a different hemisphere.

mj

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Re: questions about our mailinglists

Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
 Hello,

 On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 1:44 PM, matt joyce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 Can you elaborate please (not for the sake of debate, I'm just curious
 

 No, I'm not going to restart that discussion. The last time it lasted
 for more than a month, wasting lots of time for anybody reading this
 list, and even more for those participating in the discussion.
   
I did check the faq (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Misc) before 
asking, there was no mention of the problem.
Oh well, never mind.

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Re: questions about our mailinglists