Recommended GTA01 images?
Hi It seems that my FRs are suffering from additional HW woes to the usual ones, and I just contacted my vendor with warranty questions. Meanwhile, what's hot nowadays for a GTA01 if one wants the phone functions to somewhat work, and yeah, suspend too preferrably? -- Mikko Rauhala m...@iki.fi - http://www.iki.fi/mjr/blog/ The Finnish Pirate Party - http://piraattipuolue.fi/ World Transhumanist Association - http://transhumanism.org/ Singularity Institute- http://singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Black SOD for a change
I tried to figure out how to put this stuff into http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1841 but I can't find any way to do so on the page even when logged in. Maybe it's got something to do with the top saying Warning: acct_mgr.web_ui.MessageWrapper object at 0xb6497e2c. So I'll just complain here and you can stick it where you like. Okay; two Freerunner units, one restores semi-okay, one's screen typically goes all black after an otherwise successful restore (not before showing the appropriate display for a moment though), doesn't recover, doesn't seem to react to /sys/devices/platform/s3c2440-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/ backlight/pcf50633-bl/brightness. The device remains accessible via usbnet. Trying to restart X doesn't seem to do much. (I've used it without suspend until recently, since everything about that has seemed fucked anyway for a long time.) Tried with these images w. opkg upgrade with Timo's recommendation, at least somewhat works on the other device: http://lists.projects.openmoko.org/pipermail/fdom-development/2008-December/000192.html Also tried 20081212-testing on the problem one, same deal, after restore, there's maybe a second of UI visibility, then instant black. What the fuck? BSOD for a change? Should I just bitch to my EU retailer for warranty replacement since it's just affecting the one unit at least here? Or is it just that the software side is too fragile still with races upon races and the code just happens to work with the other device by chance? WSOD fixes that don't quite work right? What to try to narrow it down, what data to put out (and where, really)? (Yeah excuse me, I'm getting somewhat frustrated after spreading moko awareness 'round here and trying to keep optimistic, but problems upon problems with critical functionality where one has no idea whether the device is just trash already or if it's maybe possibly still salvageable sometime, somewhere, if the drivers actually worked, *sigh*.) -- Mikko Rauhala m...@iki.fi - http://www.iki.fi/mjr/blog/ The Finnish Pirate Party - http://piraattipuolue.fi/ World Transhumanist Association - http://transhumanism.org/ Singularity Institute- http://singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re: GPG for SMS?
On ma, 2008-11-10 at 11:42 +0100, Pander wrote: One might consider alternative (weaker) encryption of SMS which do not result increased number of characters compared to the original text. Does not follow that it would be weak. You just need to do key setup (with gpg perhaps) beforehand, as rhn said. Hell, for SMS you could easily even use one-time pads, since there's generally not a whole hell of a lot of data involved. But that would be somewhat overkill, perchance. Also for texting on openmoko/android/qtextended an SMS module could be build. Huffman encoding could be used to increase the number characters per SMS and have at the same time (very weak) encryption. Please don't confuse the issue by calling that encryption, even weak. Optional compression might be useful sometimes though, but as Kieran said, the use of proper networking is often better (as it's clear that we're not talking about communicating with legacy devices at this point). Of course, kludging around with SMS may be desirable for cost reasons depending on local providers, and for power saving reasons (waiting on SMS while in suspend etc...) -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Android
su, 2008-10-05 kello 06:01 -0700, sampablokuper kirjoitti: On a different front, will it be possible to port Android applications (not the whole OS, just the apps) to distros running on Neo phones? For instance, if I had a FreeRunner, could I run http://scan.jsharkey.org/ Scan on it* now or soon (i.e. without having to wait for Android to be ported), and how much work would this be? You need to modify the VM to target arm4 and use X11 for display (and handle environment integration in a sufficient manner for the desired apps). Probably one of the bigger pieces of porting work with the whole system, since it's decidedly not just a recompile away. Probably not an insane amount of work though either, but this is from a guy not doing it. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: (Some?) 3G support for Linux from Nokia - relevant for future models?
to, 2008-09-18 kello 10:14 +1000, Lorn Potter kirjoitti: Mikko Rauhala wrote: Sure Nokia has some products which happen to be free software. That doesn't make them committed to free software, what with being eg. hostile to free formats, IANAL, but... (nor am I a spokesperson for Nokia) Nokia's position is that here are no 'free' codecs. _Everything_ has patents surrounding it. Thing is, you don't get to first intimidate governments to implement strong software patents, and then innocently use them as an excuse to hinder free format adoption. a strong opponent of independent software Have you seen forum.nokia.com? or maemo.org? Know about 'Qt Everywhere'? Somewhat, though not intimately. All of the people involved in these are nevertheless also put into risk by - ta-dah - Nokia's actions in legislation. (I personally have been in the same table with them in a couple of ministry lobbying sessions on behalf of EFFI (EFF's Finnish counterpart) and the local CS dept, and also otherwise followed their actions closely in the previous EU swpat round.) development in general through their patent lobby, very much clueless in top level press comments about these subjects, and in general not being very consistent in what they're up to in this area. Nokia employs thousands of _individuals_, we are not borg, nor do we all think and act the same. Indeed, I understand that. However, what I originally said that Nokia doesn't have any commitment to free software. You can't take issue with that by stating that there are different opinions in different tentacles of Nokia, and they're all doing their own thing. That really just verifies the original statement. Commitment kind of implies a certain amount of borginess. I am also aware that the leeches^Wlawyers and management at Nokia are mostly to blame for the bad, and many of the grassroots people might be more reasonable. Doesn't really matter either, as the former make the rules. As an example of such a stand-up grassroots ex-Nokia fellow, I nominate a friend of mine, http://liw.iki.fi/liw/log/2004-12.html#20041208b (Yeah, it's almost 4 years old, but as you note at the end of your mail, change happens slowly ;] ) I have done my share of complaining about Nokia's software patents (directly to the Finns too!), the closed-ness of maemo and (for a year or so) Qtopia. That's good, and on one hand I'm glad that there are such people at Nokia. On the other, I'd kind of prefer them to abandon ship and let Nokia become the closed Apple-like behemoth it somewhat seems to want to be. Because more of them don't (see above url), I get the impression that most of them don't really mind Nokia's policies _that_ much, so it really doesn't seem that they'd be a source of much impetus for change. In the final analysis, though, I admit I don't know which is the more realistic approach to increasing total freedom and choice in the market. Perhaps the kinda-sorta for freedom guys inside will have some clout and will to use it eventually. Change _will_ happen. But it will happen slowly. Indeed. Until then, however, I will include a disclaimer about Nokia's less favourable policies whenever I must mention them doing something nice for a change. I think here's a good point to agree to disagree, but of course, I'd get the final word in that case, so not all may agree - I tried to make it fairly balanced as best I could though ;) -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Video on Freerunner?
Quoting Tim Dobson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: you tube video are possible on the free runner. though not instantly... See my earlier mail on Youtube offering mp4 versions of their videos. I still don't know if anyone's verified how balrog-kun's referenced glamo-accelerated mplayer plays them (or if the glamo output has received further finetuning). But anyway, there certainly is potential to play youtube stuff more or less realtime. http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-June/020056.html -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SDHC 16GB 15MB/s card
ti, 2008-08-19 kello 18:06 -0400, Geoff Ruscoe kirjoitti: I am looking to upgrade my Micro SDHC card and I found: a 16GB Sandisk w / 15MB/s speeds. This sounded like a winner to me, but I wasn't sure if it would work. The model number is: SDSDRH-016G-A11 Googling this model number finds an SDHC card. _Not_ a µSDHC card. It will not fit mechanically. Also, I haven't seen 16G cards (µSDHC ones) on the market yet, though certainly they're coming. (By the way, a 15MB/s card is kind of overkill on the FR, it can't manage half that - just for future reference, if you find yourself wondering whether to spend extra bucks for card speed.) Anyway, any µSDHC card should work. In case of unexpected incompatibility, 1) finetune the Glamo SD clock and/or other settings and report back 2) return the card and get a different model. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FR GPRS speed
la, 2008-08-09 kello 17:36 -0400, Jeff Davis kirjoitti: What's the highest internet speed the GRPS modem on the FR is capable of? Wikipedia gives a very broad range for sub-EDGE technology. It supports the max. plain gprs speed, theoretically 80kpbs. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cpu-speed limitations
On ti, 2008-08-05 at 14:10 +0200, Yorick Moko wrote: I guess it could even prevent car gps-navigation because displaying the map + speed and using text2speech would probable give some problems Oh come on, it's not that bad. Also (AIUI) you can pretty much scroll with the Glamo, only drawing newly visible portions of the map. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: firmware Re: IMEI
su, 2008-08-03 kello 04:12 -0700, Learning It kirjoitti: Do we have sources of firmware for GSM chipset? No. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS application (was: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld)
ti, 2008-07-29 kello 20:53 +0200, Marcus Bauer kirjoitti: I'm a huge Openstreetmap fan but until OSM is ready for routing this will take at least five more years, probably ten. That's probably true _if you drive a car_ (though even for that it can be a handy help, especially in areas that don't happen to have lots of turn restrictions, though you of course don't want to just blindly drive listening to it anyway). Us others want navigation too and are considerably less hampered by OSM's current lackings. 'course, there are other projects than TangoGPS, but it seems otherwise nice so one would like it to include this as well. As long as I'm not coding it, it's not my call, of course :] PS: Kudos for your work and all, but with all your hyperbole, jumping to conclusions, accusations of lying and stuff, you might want to take a step back for a breather if you want, you know, people to bother to listen to you instead of just wanting to rant wildly. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The GTAs
la, 2008-07-26 kello 14:53 +0300, Timo Jyrinki kirjoitti: 2.5G = GSM with GPRS 2.75G = GSM with EDGE (=EGPRS) Yeah, but FWIW, the whole G notation especially for fractions should be taken out and shot ;] -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Volume?
pe, 2008-07-25 kello 20:31 +0200, Aaron Sowry kirjoitti: Everyone I have spoken to using the GTA02 handset has mentioned large amounts of echo when calling to/from another cellphone, FWIW, I had this problem for most of my GTA01 use unless I tuned down the volume manually from the slider present when calling. On the default GTA02 image the problem isn't present out of the box, however. (Same sim, same provider, so I rather doubt it's them suddenly starting to do echo cancellation.) I presume the mixer settings in that are saner per default, and apparently I should back them up before trying any updating ;] -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: InvisibleShield discounts!
On ke, 2008-07-23 at 13:43 +0200, Bastian Feder wrote: Take them and use them wisely. (If you've used one, please write back to community there would be no discount code collision). Meh. Please, when sharing discount codes, take the time to dish them out yourself privately. The community list is stuffed enough as it is, and throwing around one-use codes and notes about them being used publically is somewhat superfluous. I've got several codes too. E-mail me privately if you need them, that is, are ordering only one shield - otherwise you'd get the same or better discount already. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
On ti, 2008-07-22 at 11:43 +0800, Simon Matthews wrote: Surely the hardware and software 'fixes' can only be seen as a total fix if they make the SN (signal to noise ratio) of the GPS the same as if the SD card is not present. FWIW and IMAO, this definition of a total fix is impractical almost to the point of uselessness. There will always be some noise in a tightly packed product incorporating many high frequency sources. The question is if the noise is significant (as it seems to have originally been). Referring back a bit, it _is_ nice to hear though that the clock drive tuning can improve the situation noticably even with SD clock on, should probably give that a try myself one of these days. (Haven't tested GPS in a while now, but it _would_ be nice not to have to send my unit in for service :) Again, kudos to the team for a job well done on all fronts, sw and hw, with regard to this issue. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: USB connector not Mini-AB?
ma, 2008-07-21 kello 10:24 +0100, Andy Green kirjoitti: We don't monitor ID pin yet to automate this, but we will. Funky. You need to provide some magic sysfs poking by hand at the moment to push it between host and device modes. ~ echo host /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-ohci/usb_mode ~ echo 1 /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-host.0/hostmode There was some discussion at some point if the Freerunner can be in host mode without providing power _while_ charging from outside 5V (for some special applications like robotics, obviously with special non-standard cabling arrangements), but I don't know if that ended up with an answer. Will only changing the usb_mode accomplish this? -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: USB connector not Mini-AB?
ma, 2008-07-21 kello 10:24 +0100, Andy Green kirjoitti: We don't monitor ID pin yet to automate this, but we will. Funky. You need to provide some magic sysfs poking by hand at the moment to push it between host and device modes. ~ echo host /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-ohci/usb_mode ~ echo 1 /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-host.0/hostmode There was some discussion at some point if the Freerunner can be in host mode without providing power _while_ charging from outside 5V (for some special applications like robotics, obviously with special non-standard cabling arrangements), but I don't know if that ended up with an answer. Will only changing the usb_mode accomplish this? -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: microSDHC class 4 or class 6?
pe, 2008-07-18 kello 15:14 -0500, Hans L kirjoitti: On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Andrew Burgess [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can the Freerunner make use of the class 6 speed? If not I'll go for the max size. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card#SDHC Class 4 supports a minimum write speed of 4MB/s, and 6MB/s for class 6. Not sure how fast the Freerunner is capable of writing though. According to raster¹ the glamo (which is also the SD card controller) bus speed is 7.3m/s (I presume from context he means megabytes). This with the cpu doing nothing else besides transferring data to or from the card; thus in practice I don't think the class 4/6 distinction is going to matter much on the FR. I would go for the size (and did, with my 8 GB class 4 card). But, I haven't experimented with the different classes, so grains of salt and all. ¹ http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-April/016518.html -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
ti, 2008-07-15 kello 13:58 +, Ole Kliemann kirjoitti: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 01:52:36PM +0200, Marcus Bauer wrote: who needs SD cards anyway ;-p I need it for one single reason... to store map data for gps... o_0 Indeed that's a biggie... Here's hoping any kludgy but not-very-cumbersome fix will be found. (Let's wrap the µSD in tinfoil!) -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
ti, 2008-07-15 kello 23:29 +0200, Joerg Reisenweber kirjoitti: The good news: *IF* all pans out, there's (or soon will be) a new kernel at Andy branch that stops SD-card clock when SDcard is idle. We hope this will almost cure the problem, at least reduce it to sth like you can't GPS while watching video from SD or the like (hope you can cope with that ;). It does sound plausible that it'd be okay with sufficient SD buffering at least. Interesting to see how it pans out. To give a more visible voice to some ponderings that have been on the IRC channel, I'll toss this followup question out here: Can the SD bus, when active, additionally be (stably) underclocked (when GPS is in use or maybe just when getting a fix) and, of course, would this have any effect? We're about to verify a hw-fix so you could even watch video and still have GPS positioning during that. Excellent. One would hope official retailers *cough*pulster*cough* would be able to perform such an operation, once verified; perhaps allow for fixes being done by local hw-capable people (sadly not me) without voiding warranty... And *please* don't try weird reworks and maybe break your FR by doing so Yeaah sorry about that tinfoil quip ;] And cheers for keeping us in the loop with this issue. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS
su, 2008-07-13 kello 03:48 -0700, Russell Sears kirjoitti: The current software drivers do not save any state between GPS locks, so the GPS device is needlessly re-downloading information from the satellites each time it turns on. Downloading the data seems to require a much better/more consistent signal than calculating the phone's current position. Doesn't just seem to, it does need a better signal. And yeah, being able to restore that data and/or get it from the network should provide much quicker first fixes. From #openmoko: DocCod cold start: like 10 minutes for a fix DocCod agps data feeded immediately after start: fix in 1 minute or less DocCod between 2 tall buildings, btw Anyway, as for the GPS problems some are having, I got a fix relatively quickly on a phone another guy had problems with from the first Finnish group batch. The difference mostly that he used some of the frontends and I grepped the device node directly. So there might've been some software glitches at work with eg. gsmd getting confused at the chip output (which includes large amounts of those spurious error messages and stuff). (Of course, it _might_ have been a flaky but not consistently faulty connection too; we'll keep an eye on the device if it starts acting up again.) So anyone who's having GPS problems should probably make sure it's hardware by checking out the GPS chip output at the lowest level by doing something like: echo 1 /sys/devices/platform/s3c2440-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/neo1973-pm-gps.0/pwron grep GPGGA /dev/ttySAC1 And seeing if there'll be fix-looking data within, say, 10 minutes to be sure, on a decent exposure of the sky. (You can do that remotely in a screen session and then attach to it with screen -dr from the OpenMoko terminal to make it easier to type it in but still get the output from the Neo.) See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS on what a fix looks like. Hope this helps someone. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
pe, 2008-07-11 kello 15:17 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer kirjoitti: Well... using an inode-based filesystem like ext2 or ext3 is a really bad idea, since you end up rewriting some of the blocks a *lot*. Journalling the metadata, as ext3 does it, does make things even worse as you say. Using a purely journalled FS like jffs2, on the other hand, is a really good idea since it's designed to avoid exactly those flaws. SD does wear-leveling. JFFS2 is redundant on those, though probably generic leveling isn't quite as efficient than what a leveling filesystem can manage on raw flash. (Slapping leveling on leveling isn't likely to improve things much, I would think...) -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
pe, 2008-07-11 kello 15:44 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer kirjoitti: Checking you're right. I could swear I saw early on that the whole reason jffs2 was used on the GTA01 was because SD didn't do that. So anybody know why it was used? Bee-cause the internal flash is not SD but raw flash, on both Neos? -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FR Max downlink bandwidth
su, 2008-07-06 kello 16:01 +0200, Diego Fdez. Durán kirjoitti: What is the max downlink bandwidth of FreeRunner? 80k for the 4 downlink timeslots. In theory. Practice, you can get 50. It's just curiosity, I'm going to use FreeRunner to keep open a SSH session to my server's control server and latency is the critical thing. Then why're you talking bandwidth? Latency is always bad with gprs. 0.5-1s usually. SSH is not pleasant but usable; done that semiregularly over gprs for quite a while. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Dual Band GSM
la, 2008-07-05 kello 14:01 +0200, Sean Lynch kirjoitti: Does anyone know if there are any plans for a Dual Band GSM openmoko phone? It'd be nice to have an 850/900 phone for use in the States or in Europe. You're confused. The phones are triband 850/1800/1900 and 900/1800/1900, called 850 and 900 models for short because that's where they differ. (In hindsight, this probably invites the confusion for people who don't know GSM.) The upshot, generalizing horribly much, is that either phone will work on both sides of the pond in densely populated areas (where 1800/1900 service is common), but not necessarily in the more rural areas of the wrong side (where 850/900 is commonly needed). One _does_ hope future models will be quad for increased flexibility (GTA03?). -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
SIP clients (was: that #/¤ Skype thing)
to, 2008-07-03 kello 09:15 +0100, Alastair Johnson kirjoitti: Joerg Reisenweber wrote: You might try to crosscompile twinklephone.com. linphone is probably easier. Maybe. Twinkle does ZRTP for proper call encryption though, so there's at least that reason to use it as a base... -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
to, 2008-07-03 kello 12:45 -0500, Forrest Sheng Bao kirjoitti: PS: If you wanna call a traditional telephone from a VoIP client, there must be a company providing the service to bridging Internet and telephony network, right? Yes. Do you have such open source solutions? A service is not open source per se, though there are certainly many VOIP to POTS bridging providers who use standard protocols. I use diamondcard (for the very little I have need for such a thing), mostly because Ekiga offered it by default (though I've since changed to Twinklephone - the wonders of standard protocols!) You can presumably use Asterisk to set up such a service, if that's what you're asking - it's rather unclear. I think the company need to pay money to telephony service operator. Who will pay it? Umm, the users? You seem to be rather confused about open source, open protocols and services that can be accessed using the above, to be frank. These are three different things, though go well together. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner and Rogers/Fido question
to, 2008-07-03 kello 12:24 -0600, Todd Courtnage kirjoitti: I'm confused in whether EDGE is 3G or 2G. On the Wikipedia page: While EDGE is part of the 3G standard, some phones report EDGE and 3G network availability as separate things, notably the iPhone. So's Wikipedia. And everyone else as well since 3G is just a blanket marketing term for a bundle of technologies. EDGE does, at its fastest, reach speeds sometimes coined as 3G, but is mostly considered 2G anyway. Does any of it matter? No. Paint me confused. :-) Can I (in theory, at least) access Rogers' EDGE network, and hence get data/internet access on the FreeRunner? EDGE is a beefed-up GPRS. You _should_ be fine, only at lower speeds. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My word on GPRS (was: How Slow Is Fast?)
to, 2008-07-03 kello 21:35 +0200, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer kirjoitti: Note though, once someone wants to call you while you are not idling, i.e. during a long wget, you will not get any call notifications. Instead, the network will think you are not reachable and -- if configured -- send you to the voice mailbox. Umh. Disappointing. Is this really the best it can do or best that has been coaxed out of it so far? -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Maximizing the GPRS through compression and caching
pe, 2008-07-04 kello 11:50 +1200, Ben Wilson kirjoitti: I wonder how feasible/effective it would be to do some extra realtime compression on the GPRS data link? Make a connection to your home Linux box to terminate the compression and connect you out to the internet from there. Yeah I have often done something to this effect when surfing over GPRS; do an ssh -C -L tunnel to a web proxy (or even nowadays use the generic socks tunneling of ssh -C -D). That's an easy if not quite as generic solution as full-blown compressed VPN. (I'm not sure if the dropbear client supports -D, I don't think so; but anyway.) For web browsing, there's more to be done by using a smart proxy on both the client and the intermediary computer; see the ideas at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Server:WebProxy I have some ugly and partially buggy (the Twisted integration part spesifically) python code that does the HTML diffing (well, it splits on and identifies and transmits line ranges; uses ssh -C to provide usual compression and encryption). I will probably debug it a bit at some point here since hey, my Freerunner is shipping to me tomorrow. Perhaps hopefully also add rdiff support for non-ML/text data (yes, I did check the special algo was markedly more efficient for ML/text in several interesting test cases at least). However, I'm not convinced I'll have the motivation to polish it up as suitable for general consumption, and would appreciate if an interested party stepped up (hell, even if they didn't use my hacked-up code at all but rather just ran with the general idea). Oh yeah, the code? It's not up anywhere at this point, since it's not useful as is. I can send to interested parties on request, and if I get it functional, I'll certainly post it up. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Battery life case design
ti, 2008-07-01 kello 14:35 +0200, Arne Zachlod kirjoitti: Im not sure, but I think with an even thicker phone there will be more no-geeks who dont care about the freeness who wont buy the phone only because its thick and heavy (and such a phone would be heavy). Actually reading the text you would have noticed he was suggesting for someone (maybe Openmoko, maybe not) to produce a large battery back as an optional accessory, so your criticism misses the point entirely. For myself, I would be at least somewhat interested (depending on bang per buck, of course; it's not a must-have for me), for largely the reasons the OP mentioned. That is, simply for getting to have more of it on more of the time doing useful stuff. Power management is obviously important regardless, as is getting decent standby time with the default battery. (If anyone would like to offer a short summary to the community on how cpufreq and suspend are progressing, that would be interesting.) -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Inter-Freerunner Connectivity
su, 2008-06-29 kello 13:22 -0400, Charles Pax kirjoitti: In what ways can two Freerunners plausibly communicate? Which is the fastest for data transfer? Wifi. Can they connect via WiFi without a separate router? I've seen some discussion over how the Freerunner cannot be used as an access point. Yes. Does this mean two Freerunners wouldn't be able to create a network of just themselves? No. Can they connect through USB with one being the host and the other behaving as if it were connected to my desktop (as an external hard drive or whatever)? Yes. Is there another type of USB networking they can do? What it does by default. You know, USB networking instead of mass storage. Is there enough control over the GSM chipset to communicate directly (without using the mobile phone network) between two Freerunners? No. This would violate some FCC regulation, right? Yes and quite possibly kill someone. And just for fun... Would there be any practical purpose for communicating through the headphone/mic jack? No. I'm assuming they can connect via bluetooth and that they can can make phone calls to each other :) Yes. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No WLAN AP functionality
la, 2008-06-28 kello 11:31 +0200, Atilla Filiz kirjoitti: Why can't we use madwifi? I thought our wifi chips were atheros. All Atheros are not created equal. Madwifi is for Atheros' a5k series softmac laptop chips. This is a 6k series hardmac embedded chip. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The glamo chip and its future
la, 2008-06-28 kello 09:43 +0200, Michael Stather kirjoitti: At least this is what I read, since neither read 2D or 3D acceleration is possible. That is quite an overstatement of the problems. At least Xv and mpeg4 accelerations are possible with available software. I don't know exactly how much accelerated support there otherwise is, but at least seems from public statements that basic stuff like blitting/solid fills/rotation etc is there. So please, while the Glamo is no panacea, and the bandwidth issues are real enough, no FUD that nothing is possible with it. Also, while this is purely speculative, balrog-kun (the guy responsible for mpeg-4 acceleration) at least at some point had some ambitions on doing basic 3d acceleration support, but that would probably require running in QVGA mode even if that pans out. (The Glamo is not really designed for VGA displays even if it can drive one.) So I wonder why this was done that way (since the older model had a much larger bandwidth), and whether it's changed for the next release. It is public information that the Glamo is off the table for GTA03 due to it not panning out quite as well as was originally hoped. As for why, I can only speculate. The short specs without the caveats were attractive enough, they got permission to do a free driver, and the Glamo provided an extra SD controller (though limited by its bus) which was necessary with the wifi chip requiring one. I mean e.g. games (3D games, or emulators) are IMHO an important part of the functionality of such a smartphone. For fast-paced games you might want to use QVGA mode to alleviate the bandwidth issues, but IMAO on such a small screen that isn't a bad deal anyway (for fast-paced games spesifically). Something like scumm adventure games should be fine in higher resolution, but that isn't a promise as I don't have a GTA02 myself yet (the order _is_ in :). Realize that the GTA03 will apparently be dumb framebuffer again, like GTA01. While that speeds up pure blitting to the screen from the main memory, do not expect wonders from it either. Where future devices go, we shall see. The reality is that most high-end embedded graphics stuff is closed as hell. What with Android and even Nokia announcing preliminary plans for Linux phones, there are quite enough high-profile companies doing this stuff with no regard for real openness (witness Android FAQ and partner list, and Nokia's Maemo). I for one would like OpenMoko to differentiate in this respect and stay the course even with the difficulties it may pose. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The glamo chip and its future
la, 2008-06-28 kello 12:25 +0200, Yorick Moko kirjoitti: I have no idea if it will be slow but youtube video's should be possible. Yeah, their standard videos are such low resolution and quality it could well be possible reasonably... And also: Maybe you would have to encode it to mpeg-4 though, don't know if it will work through flash. Youtube does provide higher quality mp4 video nowadays; you can get at the download links from eg. keepvid.com service. So if the mp4 files downloadable are ones that the Glamo chip can decode, that's our solution; just code a youtube viewer that shows the mp4 versions. (Somebody with a Freerunner please feel free to verify if this works :) nice post about the video acceleration: http://unadventure.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/accelerating-in-my-pocket/ Indeed. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
On pe, 2008-06-27 at 13:56 +0200, Lucas Bonnet wrote: Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I encourage you to get involved today. We need your help. Waiting for GTA03 is a possibility of course, but keep in mind how long it took us to go from 01 to 02. Sure, how can we help? If I may interject, I would presume Sean here is talking about buying what's available now (instead of next year, even with the GTA03 not being a major improvement anyway in most respects), and, you know, running with it. I'll be having my summer vacation starting today, and when I get my FRs from Pulster, that'll hopefully revitalize my motivation to code a bit on that mldiff/rsync proxy and a realtime net-shared shopping list thing I've been thinking about. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
No WLAN AP functionality
On pe, 2008-06-27 at 10:47 -0500, Hans L wrote: On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 2:49 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it possible to use the WiFi in the FreeRunner as an access point? Sadly no, as it's a hardmac chip and the proprietary firmware lacks this feature. You should be able to use ad hoc mode for most purposes, albeit not always as conveniently. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: upgrade memory card
ti, 2008-06-24 kello 17:02 -0400, Nicholas Dube kirjoitti: Will the FR be able to support 16GB SDHC microSD cards? If it supports SDHC (and I hear it does) it supports at least up to 32GB cards. That is an artificial limit in the spec, by the way, so controllers _may_ be able to be coaxed into doing higher by driver software if the spec will be revised in a straightforward manner in the future (that is, through the removal of said limit). (Personally I've a 8GB Sandisk in my 1973, but of course the card controller is different in the FR.) -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS
ma, 2008-06-23 kello 09:02 +0200, Francesco Cat kirjoitti: the FreeRunner will have a true GPS integrated, not only an AGPS system, wouldn't it? You misunderstand what AGPS means. Yes, it can work without assistance data. (I don't know if there is software support for assistance at this point, come to think of it...) -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: openmoko and pci express voice modems
ti, 2008-06-17 kello 18:53 +0100, Al Johnson kirjoitti: On Tuesday 17 June 2008, Matt Flax wrote: I would like to know whether it is possible to plug a pci express voice modem into a laptop and then use openmoko to make mobile calls from the laptop ? It ought to be possible, though probably not out of the box. It seems like an odd thing to do, but I'm sure you have a reason. [...pondering how you could make calls from a Neo through a laptop] I figured he meant running the OM software on the lappie to operate the voice modem as a phone. Which should be doable with some hacking to accommodate possible differences between the pci express card and the chip arrangement of a Neo. Majorly, would the card present itself as an audio interface or transfer PCM on the serial interface? As currently the OM dialer is Qtopia, the question becomes if it has support for the required I/O strategy or would one have to hack it (I don't know). -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: moko running everything as root
su, 2008-06-15 kello 16:39 +0200, Joerg Reisenweber kirjoitti: YEP, exactly. Really wonder whether ssh is open to GPRS :-o (I had to fire up GPRS to check, my simcard doesn't allow right now. shame on me :-/ ) For sure it's no good idea to run the web-browser as root. Last I checked yes. So, you know, I pretty quickly set a root password :] -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: speech - text on FR?
su, 2008-06-15 kello 16:07 -0700, Ajit Natarajan kirjoitti: I see a speech project on the OM projects page. To me, it seems like the project is attempting command recognition, e.g., voice dialing. Feasible especially if the user trains the command words in advance. (Didn't check if it does that; it is doable to some extent otherwise too but the difficulty rises markedly...) However, it would be great if the FR can function as a rudimentary dictation machine, i.e., allow the user to speak and convert to text. A pipe dream. Save your dictations as audio and postprocess them elsewhere. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 - product management, features assumptions
ti, 2008-06-10 kello 14:59 -0400, Ken Young kirjoitti: but surely that's just a result of the current buzz - is UI animation really a *necessity* in the long-term (or medium-term) future of the mobile phone market? This is especially true because if the GTA03 tries to be an iPhone clone, it will be at best a half-assed iPhone clone. I don't usually do me, toos, but I'll make an exception. This no-nonsense observation warrants attention from the OM powers that be. Indeed if you try to take on the iPhone where its strengths lie at this point, you will fail. Freedom and openness have their own strengths. Concentrate there until you have the resources to spread a wider net properly. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)
ti, 2008-06-10 kello 08:52 +0800, Carsten Haitzler kirjoitti: but beyond gta03 it's an open book and who knows - we may likely pull out a lower res screen. it is in fact very likely something will be a lower res in later products as there is just so much more choice there below vga. As a =VGA advocate (for all the stated reasons; web browsing, terminals, better maps, text reading etc.), yes, a lower resolution model may be quite okay. Personally though, it'd be a shame if in the future, for instance, I'd have to pick between UMTS-capable and VGA-resolution OM phones, in the scenario that you put out an UMTS phone with a lesser resolution with no new high-resolution model imminent... The features are to some extent complementary in the sense that more resolution makes the better bandwidth and latency more useful (aside from just wanting both features for their own sake, of course ;). I _could_ actually see the point in making GTA03 a QVGA phone though, since it wouldn't apparently offer much more than an 02 in the way of other features. It could be the display cost-cut version of GSM OM phones... (Personally though, I would've gone straight 3G after GTA02 to get one of those beasts out reasonably fast, since GSM is, well, aged, and lacking 3G is starting to be a major misfeature. But I don't claim to have done market studies on the case...) -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Android on Freerunner ... Would it be possible ?
On pe, 2008-05-30 at 11:47 +0200, NeoSleg wrote: I'm hust wondering if it would be possible to install Android on freerunner when they will be out ... I don't really know if Google plan to give their system to the public or only distributed with new devices ... As has been said before, Google's development image is compiled for a newer revision of ARM and is thus unusable on the Neo. (There is speculation that they've intentionally limited the audience for newer devices of their partners, but no real information.) If they'll later release their sources as free software as they have promised (well, the promises have included wording like most of and such, so we'll see if they'll really follow through with true freedom...), at that point the system should be portable to the Neo. Being a VM platform that just happens to run Linux at the bottom, probably their jitter will require some work in addition to simple recompilation, but shouldn't be an unreasonable amount of work. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: multi-tutch?
On to, 2008-05-29 at 17:20 +0200, Bastian Muck wrote: I have a little idea. Imagine, you put your finger somewhere on the right side of the screen. The average point is also somewhere at the right side. When you put another finger e.g. at the left side the average point jumps somewhere to the middle. This jump is where we could guess, that at least two fingers touch the screen. Yes, this idea has been bounced around on the IRC at least (not to belittle you coming up with it also :] ). One could indeed do limited multi-touch emulation, recognizing quick drags and extrapolating the position of the second finger to be at the point twice the distance from the drag startpoint as the drag endpoint. AFAIK nobody is actually doing that and it has its limits as you indicate (no way to reliably know which finger is moving after the dual-tap and such); however, the way is clear for somebody interested to experiment... -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: multi-tutch?
ke, 2008-05-28 kello 17:17 +0200, Jan Stöckel kirjoitti: hey given pro-linux.de (german news site)is right, MPX http://wearables.unisa.edu.au/mpx/ is now a part of Xorg, and I can remember that the display of the freerunner was ready for multituch, [...] Or I am completly wrong and it isn`t possible ? Yes. It isn't. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: microSD support
On pe, 2008-05-09 at 16:48 +0200, thomasg wrote: There's a list of supported microSDs for GTA01 on the wiki. I'm pretty sure that there wil be no difference in GTA02. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards Actually GTA01 is not a good comparison in this case because the microSD reader in GTA02 is hooked up to the GPU, as opposed to the SoC, so it's quite a low-level difference. (I have an 8 GB one in my GTA01 myself.) That said, Joachim verifying a 4 GB card working gives good reason to assume pretty much any SDHC will. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics)
On ma, 2008-04-28 at 13:59 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What if you could use one of those 'coming very soon' Laser projection device(s) connected to USB ? You'd be looking at 12 Mbit/s max for the USB1.1, not fun. Really peeps, face it, seems that the sane way to do non-crappy video on the Freerunner is to get driver support for that Glamo mpeg-4 decoding (remember, the hardware is capable). Hopefully everyone's grasping at straws makes OM bump up the priority a bit (though again, for now there are certainly more important things to do). -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics)
On ma, 2008-04-28 at 16:13 +0200, Jens Fursund wrote: Is mpeg-4 decoding in the Glamo chip only video? Or could we use it to decode audio as well to decrease CPU-time, thereby having more batterytime for playing mpeg4 audio? Video only. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics)
On ma, 2008-04-28 at 09:26 -0500, Tim Shannon wrote: But isn't it still limited by the bandwidth available from the micro SD card? Maybe I misunderstood that. Yes it is. It's just that sending mpeg4 packets to the glamo takes just a _tiny_ bit less bandwidth than sending entire uncompressed frames. (Also the CPU will have more time to spend for doing the I/O.) -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics)
to, 2008-04-24 kello 19:20 +0800, Carsten Haitzler kirjoitti: the graphics chip (glamo) can decode mpeg4 itself, but we dont have the time or resources to do this properly ourselves. you are free to do it yourself as we provide all the code, but you would need to reverse-engineer the graphics chip or hope that graphics documentation can be made public. right now you need an NDA to see the docs. Righto. Of course, I'll be still buying the phone regardless, but I would hope OM toss some resources this way _after_ getting the system otherwise mass-market operational (or yeah, at least get the mpeg decoding part independently and publicly documented as was alluded to as a possibility with the glamo anyway). Leaving it totally unsupported in these conditions would be somewhat downletting. (Again, talking extended duration here, I don't mind it being unsupported for now.) And for my two cents, screw properly if it gets too much in the way. A device node that takes ioctls for geometry and mpeg-4 packets to decode? If that's what it takes to get the functionality... And hey, any crappy implementation would at least provide information for Somebody Else to perhaps make it cleaner. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Don't ship GTA02v5 without the rework
pe, 2008-04-18 kello 21:57 -0400, Kevin Dean kirjoitti: I have to say, I'm baffled by that sentiment. GTA02v5 is fully functional, the only problem is that it's not as efficient as it could be, just like every other product on the planet. Hear hear. For fuck's sake, people. Boohoo, there's gonna be a better version down the line. Where the hell have you lived your tech lives? This is how it _always_ is, and blowing any piece of admitted suboptimality so out of proportion Escher would be proud is _not_ the way to encourage an open development process. Don't like a couple of LEDs being slightly brighter than strictly necessary? Okay, there's the Perfect v6 coming up. Oh wait, it still doesn't have wake-on-bluetooth (I'm almost sorry for mentioning this bit of old news since it may stir up yet another storm in a teacup - again). And it won't, too much reworking would be involved. So you'd better just skip the FreeRunner altogether, you know, to get the perfect phone. Don't think that's comparable to the lack of a minor power saving hw feature? Well, there's this new Atheros AR6002 wifi chip that's more power efficient than Neo's AR6001, so clearly, since we _already know_, as many are stressing over the fucking LED thing, that the FreeRunner is using a suboptimal solution, they should just scrap that piece of shit and rebuild using this more power-efficient chip. Of course, this all will mean that they'll never get any actual products out, since there's always room for improvement especially in our fast-paced tech world, but hey, it's all to satisfy the people who want their phones Just Perfect. And the point was? Yeah, the point. There was one here somewhere, let me look for it. Oh yeah. Here it is: Nothing. Will. Ever. Be. Perfect. Get over it. Not to say you shouldn't wait for v6 if it would grind your soul inside every time to see the led blink on a v5. Please do. Just leave the rest of us in peace. Oh, and hope that the OM guys won't ever think of a cheap way to make FR again slightly better and start producing a v7. Why, that would mean that your phone would instantly become useless crap, wouldn't it. Wouldn't it? -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Will Freerunner have DUN support?
On to, 2008-04-17 at 17:48 +0200, Federico Lorenzi wrote: Things get way more interesting with the FreeRunner however. Don't have a Wireless network card? Well... Indeed. The great thing about an open phone like this is that it's possible, for simpler cases even easy to network it any way you like (it does get a little more complex the more interfaces you want to use, and of course, writing a good GUI interface to support the flexibility might be hard...) Anyway, as to the original question, yeah, want to use the phone's GPRS connection over Bluetooth DUN and/or BNEP? Not a problem. Want to use the connection through a USB cable? Sure. Over an ad-hoc wifi network (sadly, FreeRunner's chip not supporting access point mode)? Why not. Use FreeRunner's Wifi interface from the USB-attached computer to talk to a local wireless network? Yeah, that's what you already implied ;) All of the above, simultaneously? But of course! Expect to tune a bit though. Presumably the OM guys or Somebody(TM) will crack up a light GUI for the simple cases of BT and USB tethering. Since this is slightly relevant, I'll mention some braindumping of mine and some others on the wiki on the subject: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:USB_Networking -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Will Freerunner have DUN support?
On to, 2008-04-17 at 10:20 -0600, Brad Midgley wrote: The bluez daemon for this, dund, stands in as a virtual modem, so the underlying network connection could be provided by gprs, wifi, pan, or even another dun. Oh my. Indeed, I forgot to mention another fun example of what you can do, which you touch upon here: Have the FreeRunner share its wifi access with a nearby 1973 through bluetooth ;) -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
On ma, 2008-04-14 at 13:29 +0200, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: I agree, I'll buy one soon too, but what's the maximum capacity actually supported (I've seen the wiki, but there are no so much tests)? I'd like to buy an 8Gb Mini-SD card... I have a 8 GB one (Sandisk) in my Neo right now. Well, not mini. Micro. Different things. The SDHC spec theoretically goes up to 2048 GB, however an arbitrary cap of 32 GB has been (at least for now) set by the SD Card Association according to Wikipedia. Go figure. Anyway, at least up to the 32 GB mark new cards should work, let's see if they'll break the spec again at that point to sell new devices... -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Loosing your moko
ke, 2008-04-09 kello 22:48 +0200, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen kirjoitti: Some information about the users (like GPS tracks) can in some countries be illegal unless the user wants this (even if the user is the thief). Information retrieved illegally can not be used to put the thief in jail and I believe that in some places in the US, the thief might put you through a lawsuit and win (you always hear crazy stories from the US legal system). While we're being not completely US-centric, I'll remind that illegally acquired information being inadmissible isn't a global loophole either. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Speeding up browsing and lightening the traffic load
On ti, 2008-04-08 at 11:30 +0200, Sander van Grieken wrote: Over the last weekend, I've been working a bit on a prototype proxy doing streaming html/xml diffs (dubbed mldiffs) based on a shared cache, largely as described here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Server:WebProxy improvement: it would be better NOT to modify the client, but instead have a 'reassembly proxy' on the client, so that all http clients/user agents benefit without hacks. The reassembly proxy could then inject a cookie to keep track of page versions. Yeah that's actually pretty much what I've done so far. Using a custom header, to be exact. Also, with pictures the proxy pair could detect on the second load it has already sent the 'crappified' image and send a diff with the next 'progression' of the image. That way the user can get the full quality image with 2 or 3 page refresh actions. Mm, that mechanic could work, if hopefully one could distinguish between reloads and arriving on the page again at a later time. Besides a timeout. Image crappification support would be good, but I don't know, it would really require inserting javascript or at least mucking with the (x)html to work nicely with a browser knowing nothing of this. (You know, something along the lines of click the image the first time, and you'll get a better version; second time does what it normally does.) No need for hacks with the two-proxy scenario I was mostly thinking along the lines of transform img reference to a crappified one, along with a surrounding link to a page version where this image is the full-quality one, or add javascript to pop up a menu when image is clicked to load the full quality image or just do whatever the original page wants to do when the image is clicked. Exactly this sort of hacks are necessary for this sort of fine-grained tuning without modifying the browser. It might even be extended to a session manager that keeps your (XMPP, IRC, etc) sessions open even when switching from Wifi to GPRS or vice versa. This would make possible 'handovers' when losing Wifi coverage. The server and client proxies just reconnect over the other channel while the endpoints will not disconnect. Now this is an excellent idea, but I'm not so sure if it should be an extension of this. First, a mobile diffing proxy is useful in many places where one might not need those other things, and second, it's less important to keep a single session going all the time with web browsing. Also, such a session manager would be rather simple on its own, which is always a nice thing for maintainability. The web proxy could perhaps just be routed through it, though; it would make things smoother for it too in some situations. Should really also check if someone's already done that sort of thing, one would think someone might've... -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Data over normal GSM call
On ti, 2008-04-08 at 10:22 -0400, Dan Staley wrote: I have plenty of cell minutes (not to mention free calls between certain numbers...) but I dont want to pay for a data planso I figure if I wanted to, I could just have my phone call my computer and transfer data over the line. There has been talk of it (especially in connection to encrypted phonecalls). The archives have a lot of it. To summarize, you can't transfer very useful amounts of data over a GSM voice call since we can't bypass the GSM chip's audio codec for those. Obviously you can get some data through, but the highest anyone's gone was IIRC ~1k using some kind of funky phonetic coding, but I believe there was no exact reference to this either, let alone code (which would be rather complex). You could perhaps do stuff like update GPS coordinates through DTMF or something like that, but for larger data transfer needs you really want a data plan. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Data over normal GSM call
On ti, 2008-04-08 at 16:02 +0100, Andy Green wrote: I think you're right, but just a thought if you could issue ready-coded GSM codec frames, you can put the data direct in there for 1KBytes/sec Yeah, but you can't. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Data over normal GSM call
On ti, 2008-04-08 at 17:16 +0200, Tilman Baumann wrote: Maybe CSD is billed like a voice call. I never used it, but i don't remember any special charges for that. Doubtful for the US drop your pants and bend over, please carriers' minutes; I presume the original poster was in this situation from his .edu account and mention of ATT. Here in Finland we're mostly billed by minute (though there are _optional_ US-like plans), and CSD calls indeed cost pretty much the same as voice calls. I presume the situation may be similar in many other (esp. EU) countries as well, which is good for us if we want to do eg. those encrypted phone calls or cheaper international calls via VOIP/CSD, but doesn't help the original poster. The Wikipedia article about CSD has some hints about running voice modems via GSM too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_Switched_Data A quick glance finds mostly mentions of 1st gen analog mobiles having been used with modems, and notably At the same time, the speech oriented audio compression used in GSM actually meant that data rates using a traditional modem connected to the phone would have been even lower than with older analogue systems. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Speeding up browsing and lightening the traffic load
ma, 2008-04-07 kello 11:24 +0200, Erland Lewin kirjoitti: IMHO, the Opera Mini design (compressing and optimizing web pages before sending them to the phone) is excellent, because it saves traffic (=money) and speeds up loading. I'm not aware of any open source alternative with the same design. Over the last weekend, I've been working a bit on a prototype proxy doing streaming html/xml diffs (dubbed mldiffs) based on a shared cache, largely as described here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Server:WebProxy Sadly, going by track record, I probably will not have the energy to productize the thing, but maybe it'll provide inspiration and/or a basis for someone to do so. I do intend to get at least the mldiffs going (currently just need to debug the interproxy communication, other stuff is done) and hopefully add rdiff support for non-ml content (during testing I found the mldiffs to be notably better for markup content so I started with that). Then I'll put the (python/twisted) source out there (if someone's really interested for it now, feel free to ask). Image crappification support would be good, but I don't know, it would really require inserting javascript or at least mucking with the (x)html to work nicely with a browser knowing nothing of this. (You know, something along the lines of click the image the first time, and you'll get a better version; second time does what it normally does.) I'm not sure if that's something I want to tackle with. OTOH, simple crappification controlled from a configuration key on the client might be doable with my concentration levels, we'll see. Oh yeah, the interproxy communication thing would need some work as well, currently being plain http. My intent is to personally use ssh -C for a transport service, so I'll get for free persistent protocol compression (on top of the ml/rdiff) and encryption for the over-the-air part. Someone more proficient in twisted would likely easily write a nice compact persistent custom protocol with internal async muxing and stuff. Annyway, thought I'd mention this even though, as said, my proxy is in a prototype stage, because, you know, this being an open phone, there's no need for one to limit oneself to proprietary solutions, even if there's not a free one available right this instant. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
On ma, 2008-04-07 at 14:00 +0200, Federico Lorenzi wrote: First off, this is by no means official in any way. Vote on [1] if you _think_ 3G is essential for a successor to FreeRunner Interesting choice of words; this discourages everyone who doesn't think 3G is essential from voting, even though the vote itself has other choices. :] Personally, for my two cents, for the successor it pretty much is essential. I will buy at least one if not two Freerunners into my family (having already one 1973). The GPRS will provide basic connectivity well enough; having a slow net is infinitely better than none at all. For the successor to be an attractive enough _upgrade_ to that, it'll pretty much have to have 3G (UMTS). EDGE, not really worth it, unless it's somehow a lot sexier in other ways. And there is the thing that they're already starting to talk about running down the 2G networks here in Finland... (Sure, it'll be just talk for years, but anyway, for confidence in longevity and all that jazz.) Oh yeah, in light of what they're talking about replacing it in rural areas, 900 MHz support for UMTS would be nice as well ;P Now, for HSDPA, it isn't really essential (though obviously _nice_). Basic old-school 384k UMTS would be quite an okay tradeoff. Anyway, for now, still anxious for the Freerunner. Cheerio. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3 nets
su, 2008-03-30 kello 18:19 +0200, Alexander Frøyseth kirjoitti: Just one question, will it be able to watch movies on it? You can play them on the GTA01 even, if you're willing to transcode the movie to a reasonably low bitrate (while also prerotating it) before watching. For suggested mencoder parameters that I found to provide quite adequate results for a small screen, see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Video_Player The Freerunner will have accelerated rotation and scaling at least, probably also motion compensation for some formats (or at least I heard about Xvmc work being done at some point on the IRC channel, I believe). Subject to driver development I have the impression that the Glamo chip is able to further accelerate mpeg4 playback, however, what with the beefed up CPU and the hw scaling and rotation one should already be able to play more video files out of the box without crappifying them beforehand as is mostly necessary for the GTA01. (Note that when decoding with the CPU versus a dedicated chip, the battery will generally deplete faster even if the CPU is up to the job, though.) So, umm, yeah; don't expect too much, but at the very least we have decent quality pre-transcoded QVGA video playing _now_ on the GTA01's, so things aren't looking bad from where I'm standing. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Aspect of FreeRunner
It is widely known that the case of the Freerunner at least on the outside is exactly the same as GTA01, and it would be prohibitively expensive and time-consuming to change that. (Personally I think the case is okay, even if not perfect; having the screen less deep would be nice for instance.) -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo unusable for playing ogg
ke, 2007-12-26 kello 17:07 +0100, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen kirjoitti: As far as I know, Vorbis supports real time scaling of the quality. I don't know about that. Theoretically, one hears, it supports bitrate peeling, but AFAIK nobody's implemented that anywhere. Anyway, on the larger issue of playing ogg, the pulseaudio sound server seemed to take quite a lot of CPU when I tried playing music, though this was a long while ago... ogg123 from command line using direct alsa was a lot better. Wonder if something could be optimized here without losing functionality? -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
Quoting GWMobile [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [...] same as a public printing therefore I think it would still be patentable. If it wasn't old. Don't know if there are patents on it though. Hopefully not, as those should go the way of the dodo anyway. Not to say the OP couldn't have reinvented it personally (I don't know; if so, good on him, and that would just go to show why patents are bad...) -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Gphone and 850, perspectives
Pheef. I'll just say my piece on these current events, among other things in the hopes of getting some perspectives to people, perhaps calming some storms a bit if lucky. 850 MHz: 1) Sucks for NA people, for sure. Luckily I have no intention of traveling there (well, maybe Canada sometime), but I feel the pain of those stuck there. 2) It _does_ seem like a big blunder on the part of FIC. 3) Hardly screws up the whole project, even if it is a blow. 4) No use crying over spilled milk. (Exception: Those who cry direct to FIC, and not on lists, about returning phones should IMAO be accommodated; they bought a quad-band device, even if it was a development one. However, in the interest of expediency, it'd be nice if those devices could find new homes directly instead. A wiki-page for I'll buy your triband GTA01 off you, perchance?) 5) Let's hope they can make a 850-capable triband in some reasonable timeframe afterwards. (Or of course full quad, but seemed from Michael's comments that the former was somewhat more likely, even if it's not guaranteed either.) Gphone/Android: 1) Gphone/Android is still vapor, Neo/OpenMoko works as a rudimentary phone already at least (using it as my daily phone myself since my ages old phone died a week ago or so). The vapority of Android also makes any statements (including mine here) about it very much guesswork. 2) The Open Handset Cabal isn't really very open in its attitudes as witnessed http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/android_faq.html 3) Google's actual phone product seems likely to not offer users the benefits of an open platform, just the system developers. This is indicated by the FAQ above and Google's interest in pushing ads to users. 4) Android-using system developers seem to also otherwise be pretty much encouraged to go proprietary as much as they like (and partners like NTT DoCoMo do like). Also considering the presence of parties like Nvidia, proprietary drivers are probably very much in game. 5) I would personally like, and expect, the OpenMoko team to push on; the people here have earned my trust with respect to trying to maximize freedom also for the indie developers and users, even if there have been other sorts of issues on the way. 6) That said, if the core of Android will indeed be free, it should be possible to grab useful stuff from it over to OpenMoko (for instance the announced VM plus libraries) for compatibility and all that jazz, if the platform will reach relevancy. Integration work would be required, of course; it'd not be gratis. 7) Also, if/when there is a free core Android system to speak of available, it shouldn't likely be overly difficult to port to the Neo. Thus a Neo purchase is protected in relevance even in the case that Android is all that it's hyped up to be and blows OM out of the water. (Not implying anything about the likelyhood of said occurance, merely pointing out that purchasers of the designed to be Linux-friendly Neo aren't really threatened to lose anything here.) 8) In the same spirit as above, in the event that at some point in the future FIC/OM would see Android rather than OpenMoko as the way to move forward, I would hope and expect them to continue making sure there are as free and open as possible mobile computing solutions available. Meaning, they'd hopefully would continue the good work they've done in designing the Neo, more spesifically the GTA02, not require (or ship with) proprietary stuff on the Linux system side, with many in-house developed free drivers to boot. If Android takes off, there will certainly be largely proprietary offerings based on it (as there are ones based on Qtopia). It is crucial that there will also be freedom-maximizing products, be they OpenMoko or Android based. (Heck, one could imagine an OM-branded 100% free Android system. But that's getting ahead of things again; let's reiterate that Android is vapor, and I'm still rooting for OpenMoko, merely not fanatically so.) The road ahead will perhaps be more interesting than especially those with heavy personal investments on OpenMoko would like. Let's try and make the best of it. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Update
to, 2007-11-01 kello 06:00 -0500, Doug Sutherland kirjoitti: If this one is only sending raw data ie no actual coordinates then it makes no sense to use that part. *sigh* 1) Yes, it pretty much sends raw data. 2) Yes, it can make sense not to have a bazillion CPUs on board from various perspectives. 3) Also you can do a bit more magic if you get the raw data in a known format. 4) It's suboptimal in this case mostly because of the proprietary protocol in which this raw data arrives (the calculations necessary shouldn't indeed be a problem given a known (reverse-engineered) data format), and the provided driver being proprietary... 3b) ...which is quite possibly not only a licensing question (though to be sure, it is that too) but also a legislation issue at least when moving across US borders. 4) Not too sure on this count, but my impression is that the chip for the GTA01 was pretty much fixed at the point where this was going to be also a mobile Windows phone. Somebody correct me if my impression is wrong, please. And finally, 4b) The GTA02 will have a different chip that does have an integrated processor and talks NMEA over serial (and reportedly might also be coaxable to give raw data as well in some format) -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
How to keep running presentations in Finland
la, 2007-10-13 kello 10:10 +0100, Joseph Heenan kirjoitti: Possibly silly question, but how did you manage this? For me, the qtopia images seemed to completely empty the battery within about 5 hours without even making any calls so I feel I'm missing an obvious trick :) I'm not who was asked, but I manage it by keeping it plugged in often :] I will be going back to OpenMoko though as soon as the gsmd issues are fixed. I have to admit that not being able to use it as a rudimentary phone has decreased my motivations for doing much development for it (though I did do that draft of a workstation remote control app). Or, at the latest, for the OpenMoko presentations I'll be doing (independent of FIC and OpenMoko inc.) in Helsinki, Finland. FUUG will host a seminarish thing hereabouts on October 21st, and the student association of the University of Helsinki in association with FLUG (and possibly FUUG, I forget) hold monthly Linux theme nights, with November 14th being my OpenMoko talk. These talks will most probably have a lot in common in practice :] I'll be posting my notes for interested parties. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3G status within the US?
ma, 2007-10-08 kello 22:47 -0400, Steve kirjoitti: I wonder why this update can't be done in the field. Field means you. The GSM chip is upgradable by people with the necessary equipment, which will likely mean FIC, and hopefully any co-operating outlets in the future. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3G status within the US?
ma, 2007-10-08 kello 11:50 -0700, ian douglas kirjoitti: Does anyone currently have a Neo working in the USA? As I understand it, ATT and TMobile are the only compatible networks here for 3G, but I'm curious what the status is on getting 3G working here in America. To be clear, the 3G status of the Neo is a resounding does not, will not. The Neo is a 2G GSM phone. The SIM compatibility issue is a different one. Hopefully TI fixes that and the Neo can be upgraded if necessary in a reasonably accessible way. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3G status within the US?
ma, 2007-10-08 kello 13:51 -0700, ian douglas kirjoitti: I'm disappointed that this isn't something that's field-programmable. Well, as it is the GSM chip we're talking about, you might primarily take it up with the local authorities; FCC, I believe. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Apple's heavy hand an opportunity for Linux smartphones likeOpenMoko
pe, 2007-09-28 kello 19:52 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] kirjoitti: In my humble opinion, and I know I'm going to take a lot of arrows for this, FIC needs to halt the GTA02 work and re-form factor the design to have a larger, glass protected screen. There is only about a six month window here that Apple has left open. Someone will clone this form factor and slap an OSS stack on it (QTopia?) and I'd like to see FIC/OpenMoko be the first out of the gate. One has to wonder what are you on to think this would even be possible in your time frame (let alone actually desirable as a huge extra diversion). This is not constructive criticism and said arrows will be well deserved. (FWIW, personally, I like the Neo design ok, though the touchscreen could be less deep; not killer, but need to design stuff not to require too much edge or especially corner touching, for finger use.) -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo 1973 certification in Russia (Rostest)
to, 2007-09-20 kello 10:02 +0200, Alexey Feldgendler kirjoitti: However, I envision it can be a hard time certifying a piece of phone hardware without the accompanying software. If the software can be changed by the user any minute, the phone at any given time may or may not comply to various regulations (like, e.g., speaking the GSM protocol correctly). Again, that part is handled by the GSM chip, which has closed firmware. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OM Camera - a new angle
Hoy I've recently bought a digital pocket camera, a Panasonic DMC-LZ7. It's a pretty good one, as pocket cameras go, and eats std. AA batteries and SD memory cards. So far so good, and bear with me for a moment. This will get relevant at some point :] The camera has a simple video mode, as they often do nowadays. Now, I don't expect wonders from a pocket cam in the video department, but there are a couple of things that struck my eye eventually. Panasonic advertises that the maximum video length varies with memory card. Support says 2G is the maximum. The actual camera, on the other hand, seems to have a hard-coded limit of 15 minutes, when it stops, with space to spare on my 2G SD. Ah well, it's a corner case anyway to want so much video on that device. A bit dishonest, though. Then comes the part which really pisses me off: Panasonic has crippled the camera so that you can't use zoom or focus functions while recording video. Now, I know this is not a camcorder. I don't expect it to record good quality video - just something casual once in a while. However, maybe I'm gullible, but I do not fucking expect Panasonic to maliciously lock me out of basic camera controls when recording. Presumably, this is all due to some sort of petty marketing policy to intentionally cripple the software on consumer goods with the goal to increase demand for their other devices. As someone having a clue or at least a half, I'm not particularly itching to buy a Panasonic camcorder after this; if they're willing to cripple basic functionality like this, who knows what any given Panasonic product will refuse to do for me! Almost reminds me of Apple. Well, scratch the almost. Now, for the relevant part. I want an open digital camera. So, hey, OpenMoko guys (or somebody else in the consumer device business and into openness), when you're well on your way to having revolutionized the mobile handset market, consider building one or twelve. While of course not any sort of priority especially this early in the game, such companion devices to the phones would fit into the Open Mobile Kommunications theme quite nicely, especially with bluetooth (and/or wifi) for easy integration with the cells - something conspicuously lacking from all but the highest end cameras I could find. (I do realize that some eventual OM phones will also likely have integrated cameras, but they will also be behind the real pocket cams, never mind real cameras, in quality and flexibility for a long while yet.) Meanwhile, I was happy to hear that the GTA02 can provide 100 mA on the USB port in host mode. It will likely make accessing USB cams in general a whole lot easier from the phone when necessary... PS: Did I mention that I'd suggest being careful buying Panasonic if you don't want crippled products? Good. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ATI to provide specs (was: Re: SMedia 3362)
ma, 2007-09-10 kello 15:20 +0800, Harald Welte kirjoitti: guys, as I indicated before, we already have the best possible support from Smedia. Not only have we some promises or statements, but we actually have signed a contract with them, binding them to support us to the utmost level. As indicated previously, this agreement includes a statement that OpenMoko will work on to-be-publicized documentation on the SMedia chip, which will be jointly released at some point. This to-be-publicized documentation bit is something that I at least haven't noticed anywhere yet, and makes the deal better than I thought (and note that I've been pro-SMedia choice already, as long as you get to publish free drivers). I (as I think probably many others who've commented on the suboptimality of the deal) thought the free drivers would have to speak for themselves as for documentation to the wider audience. Do you really prefer to get a device that does not have any working driver at all, but with a thousand-page manual (rather than the other way around: first have FOSS Drivers, and then get the docs as soon as our incredibly small team finds time to do so)? Please do the driver first :] As said, I suspect people at this point just didn't know/realize that docs _are_ in the pipeline as well. What I personally don't understand about this entire debate on our community list: You have very prominent people of the FOSS movement, particularly the Linux community in this project. Notably Werner and myself. Given my track history of clinging to every last word of the GPL, and my stance with regard to binary-only drivers or other abominations of the hardware industry: Why don't you trust us to do proper research and chose the vendor that works best for us, given all the circumstances? Indeed, I can sympathize with this point. I think you're trustworthy guys especially as to providing the most freedom that you can, and I can see how it can become frustrating that every call you make is heavily questioned - from that spesific viewpoint where you should by all rights have the most credibility! So, please, members of the community, have a little confidence in the OM team. In GTA01, the only freedom related issue that we have is the Global Locate (now Broadcom). Given the start of OpenMoko (alternative software for a Windows smartphone that FIC was building) we didn't have any influence on that one. Good that you mentioned this, because I think this bit likely hasn't gotten the most publicity either. Starting with GTA02, we have a very firm openness policy for all our hardware components. Our future designs will follow the same line - and we're trying to continuously to push the borders any further. We make our position at chip manufacturers very clear. And we're having very fruitful discussions and results that I am proud of. And well you should. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Video decoding in GTA-02
la, 2007-09-08 kello 13:00 +0100, Ian Stirling kirjoitti: At least on trivial tests I did - it seemed to play youtube videos just fine on mplayer at 320*240. Indeed. Software playing will probably take a bit more power, sure, but that aside, the Neo's youtube capabilities already partially exceed (*sigh* at the obligatory comparison) the iPhone's. (At least from what I've heard the latter has access to a limited subset of videos transcoded to H.264 spesifically for Apple.) There are some scaling and rotation issues (what with them requiring CPU power), but those can presumably be hw-assisted on the GTA-02 GPU anyway. 'course, a simple GUI for youtube playing will be required (prior to gnash being workable on the Neo, and perhaps preferrable phone-UI-wise afterwards too). Using youtube-dl and mplayer, shouldn't be a big project. Not that interested in youtube myself, though. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Apple is going to beat all competitors
pe, 2007-09-07 kello 20:18 +0200, roby kirjoitti: In my opinion software can make the difference.. I think openmoko should go in the direction of providing things not possible in a closed phone.. Indeed. Comparing to the iPhone is useless, and the Neo will not be in direct competition with it for a while yet at least. Hell, it wouldn't be the anti-iPhone if it was taking iPhone head on on iPhone's terms. It would be just another iPhone. The way I see it, the Neo will almost certainly be a niche product at first, so woeing about oh no, it's less expensive now to sell your freedom to Apple (still with a 2 year contract on your soul unless you hack it), so the Neo will only be a niche product fails to impress me. That's where you start. That's where Linux started. A niche. But that's a niche that can actively make it a better product, potentially rather quickly too. Hell, a simple app for encrypted voice calls over GSM data will instantly make it the cheapest, most transparent secure cellular, adding it on the top of the shopping list of another niche. I'm sure there are other killer features that add a niche at a time. And those add up. The iPhone is laughably limited on the software side, and what's worse, intentionally. Functionally besting it in most software categories isn't too difficult. (The GPS is another advantage, though it's unfortunate about the most useful maps not being freely available. Still, there's stuff to do with that.) And when there's a functional upper hand, with no arbitrary limits or costs for trivial services, then it's time for the big push to ordinary people. (Not that one shouldn't do some pushing before that, either.) Who me? Certainly not with OpenMoko or FIC. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Apple is going to beat all competitors
pe, 2007-09-07 kello 21:49 +0200, Jens Fursund kirjoitti: All this sounds really good, but am I wrong when I say that the GPS has been cancelled for GTA02? Yes you are, and please don't quote an entire message for a short comment like this. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Apple is going to beat all competitors
pe, 2007-09-07 kello 13:35 -0700, Shawn Rutledge kirjoitti: It's easy to think first of doing it over a data connection. But I can imagine more of a signal-processing approach. This has been hashed to death. Short of it: the GSM codec actively tries to throw away anything that doesn't sound like speech. This is not very analog encryption friendly, and we can't bypass the codec for voice calls since that's in the closed TI firmware. This is also a repeat, but for new people, I'll mention that cryptophone.de does a proprietary encryption-capable GSM phone (through GSM data); though the protocol is their own, they apparently have it documented, and welcome others to do compatible implementations. (Their source is also available, but for purely review and verification purposes; it's not free and anyone doing a reimplementation would be wise to avoid looking at it.) Thus for anyone interested in doing encrypted calls with the Neo, it would perhaps be worth considering using their ready-made protocol to leverage their installed base. I haven't reviewed their protocol though, nor am I highly qualified to do that. Also, there's the usual potential future issues with the protocol being controlled by a single firm; basically that's just something to consider for those who eventually get hacking on this. Sadly, it's too big a project for me. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Video decoding in GTA-02
There, remembered to change the subject line... pe, 2007-09-07 kello 14:33 -0700, Ted Lemon kirjoitti: On Sep 7, 2007, at 1:19 PM, Raphael Jacquot wrote: - At least several hours of H.264 playback. possibly doable but I don't believe the current hardware can handle it The point here is that for the GTA02, if the video hardware supports hardware playback of H.264, we need a driver that allows us to take advantage of that. You're right that it's a nonstarted on the GTA01, but that's okay. It doesn't. It does one of the simpler MPEG-4 profiles, don't recall the details. (One of the S-Media models does H.264, but no VGA.) Can't really feel much pain for that, personally. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 GPS (was Re: gpsd and AGPS)
ti, 2007-09-04 kello 23:27 +0800, Harald Welte kirjoitti: Just to clarify this: We have both GTA02 prototypes with GL/Broadcom and with a a competing firmware-based AGPS solution. Thanks for the clarification, and apologies for spreading the premature word out on the street that the change was pretty much decided already. I appreciate the more-than-usually difficult decision process with the chip, and Ian Stirling's reverse-engineering work so far. (While my particular family would most likely continue to enjoy a reverse-engineered driver on the GTA01 for quite a while, it does undoubtedly lessen the motivation to do so quite a lot if the work will not be useful on GTA02...) Access to more raw GPS data, such as with the Hammerhead, would certainly be a bonus if indeed said reverse-engineering would succeed (and I have no doubt it would, given some time and effort); on the other hand, FIC likely couldn't ship a fully free solution by default anyway, at least in/through the US (maybe elsewhere as well depending on contractual obligations), so it would remain a sort of blemish on the otherwise free OpenMoko. Anyway, keep up the good work (I'll take Harald's word for it ;), Ken, with the gllin build, and the OM team with the hard calls. I would encourage Ian to continue working on the Hammerhead RE, but again, no one can really blame one for losing motivation at least until the situation clears up. Especially what with pretty much volunteer work and all (I presume). Cheers all around, -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: RF systems in Neo
la, 2007-09-01 kello 11:55 +0200, Alexey Feldgendler kirjoitti: 4 RF systems? GSM/GPRS, Bluetooth, WiFi, what's the fourth? GPS -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SMedia 3362
la, 2007-09-01 kello 16:31 +0100, Giles Jones kirjoitti: On 1 Sep 2007, at 16:07, Ian Stirling wrote: Unfortunately, documents are only available under NDA. This means that only FIC can write the drivers. Seems like an odd choice of unit then for an open source phone. You're implying there are better choices... With chip manufacturers being jealous of every bit of information on how to actually use their chips, we're unfortunately lucky that the OpenMoko guys at least are allowed to write free drivers themselves after (presumably) signing the NDA to get the specs. This is not really new for the Neo either; never mind GTA01's GPS chip, even the LCD screen doesn't have free docs. Signs of the times... -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SMedia 3362
la, 2007-09-01 kello 17:19 +0100, Giles Jones kirjoitti: I wouldn't know since I've not looked into such things. But ATI have mobile GPUs and are open sourcing desktop drivers, maybe they would do the same for their mobile devices? ATI's intentions to open source their GPU drivers have been greatly exaggarated. They have mostly made vague statements about supporting Linux / open source [OSes] better. And noise has been made for a while. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them to actually deliver. (Shame on AMD.) And of course, even if they freed such commodity drivers, some PHB could well be persuaded to keep a tight lid on their super-secret embedded stuff. But of course, it'd be a step forward. Oh, incidentally, I don't really know the market situation of free software friendly low-power GPUs either. It's just an educated assumption on my part that this is likely to be the best deal OM are likely to get in this area. I pretty much trust the OM guys to feel the same way, since, well, they picked the SMedia. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: T-Mobile [EMAIL PROTECTED]
to, 2007-08-16 kello 23:09 -0400, Richard Boehme kirjoitti: Does anyone know how we can get the GTA02 onto this program? It seems like we would be a natural fit, as GTA02 has Wi-Fi. Can any one just contact T-Mobile about it and apply for developer status and say that we want to be a part of the Hotsopt at Home program? There was someone interested in doing that on the #openmoko channel once, and I believe he found out that handover to/from wifi would require access to protocols that the GSM chip doesn't (at least documentedly) provide. One of those things for which you'd want the GSM firmware source... Apparently you'd still need something like a SIP provider that would allow you to route calls to a GSM number if you want to be transparently reachable via both wifi and GSM. None of this fanciness required, of course, for simply having your calls initiate via wifi when available, but then you'll lose the call if you wonder out of range. I believe I saw someone starting work on that on #openmoko. Disclaimer: I'm relaying this information from memory, and don't have personal experience or knowledge of the GSM side of this matter. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?
ti, 2007-08-07 kello 17:34 +0200, Luca Dionisi kirjoitti: I don't know for sure if they write sentences like that one without having a clue. They probably don't, you just don't have a clue what they're actually talking about (for example, not talking about power). Anyway, let me try to be helpful here in giving you some personal insight about yourself: You obviously lack all necessary technical background to understand the issues properly at all. Your obvious hatred of telcos doesn't exactly help, since it apparently completely blinds you to rational arguments why schemes such as the one you're proposing are extremely difficult to scale in sane ways, let alone with limited power. And no, dismissing them as telco FUD without any grounds isn't a proper argument. Thank you, have a nice day, and let's get back to this when you understand what a radio is and how it's different from a p2p network, shall we? HTH and cheers. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What is the FCC ID of the neo1973?
ma, 2007-07-30 kello 15:51 -0500, Adam Krikstone kirjoitti: I see no mention of it anywhere on the wiki or lists. Does anyone know the FCC ID? The unit I received today has a sticker saying FCC ID: EUNGTA01BV4 -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re: greetings and a question
to, 2007-07-26 kello 22:07 -0700, tyler laing kirjoitti: What I meant is, in the consumer version, will this be possible? And I meant driver, not drive. I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough in my first question. Thanks for your time! First of all, the first respondent was in fact incorrect. Even the development version has Bluetooth, which _can_ be used for wireless networking between Neos and/or computers. The range is smaller than with WiFi, as is the bandwidth, but at least the latter is likely to be quite enough for most uses. The mass-market Neo's AR6K will add ad-hoc wifi capabilities, adding bandwidth and range at the cost of more power. Both will of course require connection setup control software, but that shouldn't be too much of a burden. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Couple of Questions
ma, 2007-07-23 kello 18:10 -0400, Donald Organ kirjoitti: I think you may be able to keep the existing case, battery etc and get the GTA02 in board only form. Has this been confirmed?? I dont want to buy it right now if I am not gonna be able to upgrade to the version with 802.11 wireless for anything more than $200. No and frankly, I wouldn't rely on that option, for your price. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko phone as bluetooth GPS reciever
su, 2007-07-22 kello 13:40 -0500, Dmitri kirjoitti: Would it be possible to use the phone as a bluethooth GPS reciever for my laptop, since all the parts are included? I mean, is it any plans on the software level to create that kind of link? There's a quick and dirty script for this functionality at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Not the free phone (was: Re: Again: Advertising thoughts
ti, 2007-07-17 kello 09:59 +0200, ramsesoriginal kirjoitti: p.s. i hate the way gmail handles this list. couldn't we have the respond-to adress set to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hate gmail and complain to them all you want, please don't imply the list should be broken because of that. I shan't continue on the subject, but thought it necessary to note the opposing opinion's presence in this context. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: this phone, with WiFi
ti, 2007-07-17 kello 21:47 +0200, Visti Andresen kirjoitti: And finally one more sour lemon, as far as I remember this version of the Neo only has USB 1. That will limit the maximum network speed to 11Mb/s and that even before deducting USB protocol and driver waste of bits... I don't know if you were planning on transferring large files routinely to and from the Neo, but for most purposes this really wouldn't be a major bottleneck. Actually, I wonder how the AR6K chip is going to be interfaced in GTA02. The BT is currently behind the SoC's USB interface. I could see the WiFi part accompanying that perhaps. Or not. (Hmm, couldn't find specs for the new SoC right now to check its USB capabilities.) Incidentally there are also downsides to having the BT behind USB, since the SoC apparently needs not to be in low power mode when it's in use. Probably usually not a biggie, since you're often actually doing something when you need it, but eg. using the Neo as a BT GPS probably would apparently be otherwise feasible with a bit less of a drain. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: this phone, with WiFi
su, 2007-07-15 kello 20:22 -0700, Doug Jones kirjoitti: Anyway, figuring out how to power an external WiFi adapter isn't the main issue. The question is, is it worth the time to monkey around with WiFi drivers for hardware that isn't going into the final product, just so we can test WiFi apps before the proper hardware is available? Drivers should be trivial if you pick the right adapter; at least you need to tinker with cables to get the power-feed together. So yes, if one is motivated to develop spesifically WiFi stuff at this point, it shouldn't be too much of a bother. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Galileo
ma, 2007-07-16 kello 17:09 +0200, Mickael Faivre-Macon kirjoitti: Do you know the European GPS called Galileo available in 2008 ? I do not know this technology (GPS) and I wonder if the two are compatible and if having a AGPS chip (Hammerhead) enable the Neo to receive Galileo information. No. There have been combined GPS/Galileo chip(set)s announced, but the Hammerhead isn't one. Something for the future of OpenMoko devices, one dares suppose. Not really something to pay extra money/space/etc for when launching a new product line now, considering GPS manages quite fine and Galileo isn't here yet. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Cheers for Harald
to, 2007-07-12 kello 04:43 -0400, Phil Schaffner kirjoitti: Harald Welte's blog http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/07/11#20070711-insanity [...] Eyeing at the earlier posts and other stuff on what's been going on, no wonder there's some burnout (one assumes) going around... Thanks for all your commentary and work so far, don't kill yourself with it. I'm sure I speak for more than myself in wishing you a speedy but decidedly not hurried recovery. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: IM application and other questions
pe, 2007-07-06 kello 08:01 +1200, Nick Johnson kirjoitti: Is anyone more familiar with OpenMoko and the Neo able to give a quick overview of what's involved? Am I right in assuming that all that's required is a UI and an understanding of the AT commands to send and receive SMS messages? Basically this should be handled by the gsm daemon which the app can use via libgsmd, but going by the wiki SMS isn't there yet (maybe old data, shan't check now). You _could_ use passthrough-mode to send SMS and read them from the SIM; I'd think you'd need proper gsmd support to get notification about incoming SMS though, avoiding polling... Anyway, my impression is that the Powers that Be are rather forward-looking and want to do things such as IM with IP connectivity, which is all right and proper. Gimme a Jabber client any time. And say to people that it's Google Talk lest they get confused. Not to say that there isn't a place for SMS, but those are generally insanely priced; at least with data pricing there are islands of sanity ;) -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Annoying but inevitable
ti, 2007-07-03 kello 07:42 -0400, Vladimir Giszpenc kirjoitti: How about a Minority Report type of advertising on the phone using the GPS data? This could even be payed based on proximity (bonus when the ad worked). If the phone-end software is open, it'd be hackable to not display anything but say it did. If it weren't, I doubt the Moko team would be willing to put it into the base system (proprietary GPS driver notwithstanding), especially what with the disclosure of location data to the ad server. And still it could be removed at will or even reverse-engineered for the same purpose as an open one would be modified. In short, yes, this is evil, but considering the open nature of the phone, I doubt many marketing people would pay a lot for their ads on this sort of a platform. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: USB host question
su, 2007-07-08 kello 15:25 +0200, phkeller kirjoitti: A question regarding USB: the Neo Base comes without USB host cable. Is it nevertheless possible to have access to the USB host port or is it some internal connector? The same external USB port is capable of working in both host and device modes, you just need a non-standard cable or adapters to hook it up to a USB device. (Remember the caveat about needing power from outside.) I wonder though if the Advanced kit host mode cable would accept some sort of a power plug so we could feed it 5 and 0V from the side easily :] -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
