Re: [android] Answer calll problems
Christophe Badoit wrote: Denis Galvão a écrit : Talked to hackbod on the #android freenode room. Im not sure if it is official, but this is what he told me yesterday. Thank you for the source. This is indeed bad news if all android apps have to be patched to be usable on the FR :-( They don't; there's got to be several ways around this, from USB or BT keyboards to softkeys that run at a layer android doesn't know about to faking multiple buttons from the two available ones based on chording and press duration. --pj ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Android open sourced
Nishit Dave wrote: On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 8:31 PM, Kishore [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Since i got my neo rather recently, i have only tried 4.4.1. Is 4.3 still the better choice? A couple of days ago i lost my daily use phone (motoming A1200) and so i now need to use the FR as my daily phone. Join the club. FWIW, I've been running 4.3 as my only cellphone for several weeks now. I've got the bug #1024 re-registration problem, which is annoying, but I can still make and receive calls. I've only gotten into a really funky state once or twice - due, I think, to switching between booting 4.3 and other distros (FSO). It's been pretty stable since I ran out of time to mess with it :) --pj ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: VARTA Digital USB Charger
Looks similar to the DIYer mintyboost' project: http://www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/ Radek Bartoň wrote: Hello list. I've just read an article about new VARTA Digital USB Charger http://www.en.varta-consumer.com/content.php?path=/1204126618.htmldomain=www.en.varta-consumer.com so I'm sharing it with you. For our purposes it's really great that it can charge our precious Neo from inserted AA or AAA accumulators, power point or car socket :-). ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: RFC: delete page USB
Don't delete it; someone will recreate it. Make it a redirect to the Category:USB page. Fredrik Wendt wrote: lör 2008-08-30 klockan 00:29 -0700 skrev Michael Shiloh: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB My comment: Just go ahead! :) / Fredrik ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: MokSec - The Security Framework
Alex Oberhauser wrote: Bumbl wrote: It would be more important to not run everything as root I think This will be also a main focus. When we receive the Freerunners, we will see how fast we can change this bad state. Personally, I'd be more interested in an encrypted filesystem so that I can worry less about snoopy people getting access to my personal data if I lose my phone or it's stolen. How many 'main focuses' are you allowed ? :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
steve wrote: Mass Pro is slated to start between may9 and may 16. Steve's rule say add a week. Then you got test, then you shipping. On Monday ( or maybe Sunday night for my EU friends ) I will do an update. Could you also include status of debug boards? Will they go on sale at the same time as the phones? Will there be debug-board 10-packs? (I don't expect so, but it's possible!) If I'm getting a phone via a group order, is there any advantage to getting a debug board via the same order, or should I just order it on my own? Answers can wait until your update, bu I wanted to get the questions out there. Thanks again for keeping us so well informed! --pj ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Stylus Recommendation
Ponoko has acrylic in 1/8 and some 1/4 thicknesses that you can get laser-cut for fairly reasonable prices - IIRC, they just opened a bay-area cut/ship center to reduce shipping in the US (they're originally from New Zealand!). Looks like a typical project from 7x7x1/8 acrylic is around $10-$20. That's potentially several stylus-racks. --pj On Monday, May 5, 2008, steve writes: I looked at emachines a few years back for doing some custom car parts. The CAD tool was a bit funky. The price was not hobby friendly as you note. My friend owned a machine shop so he just CNCed the thing since he wanted it too. I never tried a plastic part with emachine, but its all about the set up cost and the tool you use. material is immaterial ( or should be) You've seen the fishing rod holders. small rubber part u-shaped things. pry it open slip the rod in... I'm thinking down those lines, just for me, not a company endorsed thing. Just messing around. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven ** Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 2:30 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Stylus Recommendation I just drew up my first part. The price quote was $1600! :-( (In all fairness, it's a much larger piece than what you're talking and in aluminum.) Are their prices workable for smaller plastic designs? -Steven On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 3:53 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you used emachine shop? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Steve on V5 versus v6
Related to making openmoko gear - is there vector art of the logo somewhere? I checked the wiki and couldn't find a reference, and checked downloads.openmoko.com and again came up empty. Inquiring minds want to know! Also, if it is published, we'd probably want some kind of license to use it that we could show to the printer/manufacturer we wanted to use... My personal idea was to talk to the guys at skoobadesign(.com) and see what kind of surchage there'd be to get a moko-branded small RAPS to use as a pouch since the moko's not going to ship with one. What's Openmoko's stance on the community using thier logo, maybe even creating Openmoko branded items? --pj On Monday, Apr 21, 2008, Michael Shiloh writes: Daniel Barkalow wrote: On Sun, 20 Apr 2008, steve wrote: The pouch, alas, did not fit into the box. When Michael gets his photos done, or my spawn get their video done, then you will see that we have greatly reduced the size of the box. Partly for aesthetics, and partly to create a product where I could pack 10 phones boxes in a bigger box, and then ship that bigger box efficiently. So, I had to optimize some things. Now, I realize that people want accessories. So As this launch gets going I'll put together some ideas, for accessory packs Fundamentally, I would rather that some community member build a business around this. Our marketing materials are open source. So, you can build your own pouches, use our brand, and make a business from accessories. No, no, you should include a sewing pattern for the official pouch in the box. It would be neat to have an official Openmoko pouch for your phone, but it would be even better if that pouch was handmade by each owner for their own phone. Especially if the instructions have configuration options. It's all open, dude. I invite any of you to create a sewing pattern for an Openmoko pouch. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port
Hi Michael, This is a good start, very informative. Some good additions, I think, would be: * Why does computer/usb charging max out at 500mA? is that a limitation of the USB spec? * you mention 'other manufacturers' that 'identify their own chargers' with various resistors... if I have one of those chargers, is there a way to get the phone to ID it? * for hacking purposes it would be good to document what other mfrs chargers use and how easy they are to hack into moko fastchargers. This should be a wiki page and community driven, of course, but you could get it jump-started with whatever info you have on this issue. I, for one, have a small pile of motorola chargers with mini USB on them that I'm more than willing to hack into moko fastchargers given some basic instructions. * you/we should make the charging status *VERY APPARENT*. People are going to be unhappy if they plug it in and it doesn't charge when they think it will (consider the case of a cheapo usb hub that won't supply the power), but this can be avoided if the phone makes it obvious when it is or isn't charging. Just my pair of pennies, --pj On Friday, Apr 18, 2008, Michael Shiloh writes: Hi everyone, With input from the experts who designed the system, I've tried to document precisely how charging works on the Neo Freerunner. I welcome your feedback: The Neo Freerunner charges the battery when 5VDC is provided at the USB port, whether from a computer USB port or from a dedicated USB charger. The Neo Freerunner can charge most rapidly when it can pull 1 Amp from the power supply connected to the USB socket. However, not all chargers or computers can provide this much current. When the Neo Freerunner detects that power has been provided at the USB port, it will attempt to draw only 100mA. This minimum is mandated by the USB standard. This amount of current is insufficient to both power the Neo Freerunner (or even just its backlight) and to charge the battery, and therefore the battery will not be charged. (The battery discharge rate, however, will be slightly lower, as the supplied 100mA will be used to augment the battery.) (When a charger is connected to the USB port, the Neo Freerunner automatically powers up. Thus, if charging at 100mA is desired, the Neo Freerunner must be shut down after the startup process has completed.) After detecting USB power, The Neo Freerunner will attempt to negotiate, via the USB protocol, a higher charge rate of 500mA. If the device powering the Neo is capable of doing so, the Neo Freerunner will charge at 500mA. USB chargers do not implement the USB protocol, and thus can not respond to requests for higher charge rates. Some manufacturers have worked around this issue by installing resistors of different values between different pairs of pins in in order to identify their own chargers of known capacity. This is not part of the USB standard and is completely up to each manufacturer. The USB charger provided with the Neo Freerunner can source up to 1A. In order to identify this special charger, there is a 47K ohm resistor between the ID pin and ground. If the Neo Freerunner detects this resistor, then the Neo Freerunner will charge at 1A. In summary, the Neo can charge at 3 different rates: 100mA, 500mA, and 1A. Notes: 1. USB negotiation and resistor detection is performed in software, and is thus under developer control. A developer might write an application to indicate that 500mA or 1 Amp are available, bypassing the USB negotiation and the 47K ohm resistor detection. There is nothing preventing the software from charging at a higher rate than then power provider can supply, although there is danger in doing so. The danger in drawing more current than a charger or computer USB port can provide is that components overheat and may become permanently damaged, or even catch fire, although most USB host devices implement current limits that will depower the port on overcurrent. 2. The Neo Freerunner charger is a single assembly which includes the USB cable. The cable is NOT a separate item and can not be removed from the charger (without cutting). 3. Any third-party charger that does not contain the 47K resistor will cause the software to assume it can draw only 100mA, regardless of how much current the charger really can source. 4. In its hard-coded configuration, the PMU doesn't charge the battery at all. The hard-coded configuration is used when power is applied to the PMU after a period of complete absence of power, including the backup battery. When the system comes up, it reconfigures the PMU to enable charging. Most of the configurable items are also preserved by the PMU if it powers the system down, but the PMU itself still has power - either from USB, main battery, or the backup battery. (This is the PMU's STANDBY mode.) 5. All of this discussion is for setting the maximum current that the Neo
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
On Monday, Apr 14, 2008, steve writes: Ok thanks dirk. Frankly, some people thought the pouch sucked. If I ship a pouch, you have no choice. you get my pouch. My opinion: it's a phone sock. Ideally I would love to have the community develop this accessory if they want it. Anyone have thoughts on the RAPS stuff at skoobadesign.com ? (http://www.skoobadesign.com/product/advanced-protection-system-wrap-small-22/) Maybe you could talk to them about getting an openmoko-branded version? --pj ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Metal case [was: Application idea: Bicycle computer]
How about a case that's part metal and part plastic? Make it plastic just around the antennas (which, IIRC are at the 'ends' of the phone) and metal everywhere else? Heck, it could end up having a *good* effect by being extra shielding between the antennas and the (noisy) electronics of the phone itself. --pj On Tuesday, Mar 18, 2008, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen writes: On 3/7/08, Erland Lewin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/3/6, JW [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Why do people want metal cases so much...???Features in wiki hardware wishlist too. My thought is aluminium = metal = faraday cage = stops gps, gsm, wifi, bt signals = BAD idea The back of the iPhone is mainly metal isn't it? Many attractive cell phones today have at least parts of their cases made of metal. Also, I read about someone (forgot where) trying to make a Faraday cage, but apparently it is quite difficult in practice. For an efficient cage you apparently need many meshes with holes in different sizes for different frequencies if I recall correctly. I guess this could be easily tested by putting a cell phone in a tin can and trying to call it... I don't think it is as easy as you think. Please correct me if I am wrong. For low frequencies the cage will have little effect, but for the wifi it is not easy to predict. It gets complicated with high freqs. And if it seems to work nicely when you test it without touching the phone, maybe it don't work so nice when you do??? I am no expert... just my thoughts -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
On Thursday, Feb 14, 2008, Kyle Bassett writes: There is talk about pushing startup power control of the internal devices (wifi, bt, gps, mmc, etc.) to user level, as every user may or may not want certain devices available at bootup/all the time (availability vs. duration). Indeed, this along with good realtime stats on power usage and current battery level would let people have reasonably accurate predictions of their battery life. It'd be interesting (to me at least) to turn on and off the various peripherals and watch my projected battery life go up and down accordingly. --pj ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: proprietary firmware
+1 Software by its nature is easier to fix than hardware or even firmware; this approach does the Right Thing: vendors win because the firmware layer just got a whole lot easier to write and the rest of the world wins because we get as much control as legally permissible of our hardware. On Friday, Feb 8, 2008, Wolfgang Spraul writes: Dear Community, Some of our chips or chipsets contain proprietary firmware in flash memory. For example, in GTA02 these include the Wi-Fi, GPS, and GSM chipsets. Ideally, we would have liked to use chipsets for which even the firmware code would be free, but they don't exist right now. So we accepted proprietary firmware, as long as it was in flash or ROM. Then we ran into problems when bugs were found in the firmware, and we wanted to update handsets out in the field. The vendors would give us firmware updates and reflashing tools, but they wouldn't let us redistribute those tools to our users. We asked for special licenses to allow us to distribute those flashing tools to our users, and got them in some cases, after months of licensing negotiations. Next we discovered that those reflashing tools had further issues: for example, they would only allow loading cryptographically signed firmware into the chipset flash memory. The tools do this because vendors are worried that people would disassemble, patch, and reassemble the firmware, triggering regulatory reclassification of their chipsets (software controlled radio). Furthermore, we see that for upcoming chipsets, vendors are switching from storing the firmware in flash memory to loading the firmware into RAM at run time. One reason for this is that RAM needs less power and is cheaper. In this case the firmware, whether original or updated, has to be loaded each time the device boots, requiring that the binary- only, restrictively licensed firmware updater be included in the OpenMoko distribution. This got quite frustrating, until we met Richard Stallman last weekend. And he cleared it up for us rather quickly :-) He suggested we treat any chipset with proprietary firmware as a black- box, a circuit. He suggested we ignore the firmware inside. If the firmware is buggy and the vendor needs the ability to update the firmware, we instead ask the vendor to reduce the firmware to the bare minimum, so that it can be very simple and bug free, and move the rest of the logic into the GPL'ed driver running on the main CPU. This way we completely avoid the issue of distributing proprietary firmware updates and binary firmware updaters with restrictive licensing that load only cryptographically signed firmware. We liked his advice. It speeds up our decision making and allows us to focus on what we do best: Developing Free Software that is available in full source code, running on the main CPU, that we and anyone else can modify and optimize. There are downsides: We will no longer offer reflashing tools to update proprietary firmware, under any license. For critical firmware bugs, we will accept returns, or in some cases fix the bug in-house. We will push vendors to simplify the functionality of their proprietary firmware, so we can implement more of this on the main CPU as Free Software. Maybe some vendors will even open up firmware for Free Software development, that would be the ideal outcome we are working towards. We hope this helps clarify OpenMoko's current position on proprietary firmware: Ignore them while they stay inside of a chip or chipset, and refuse to touch them. Focus on what Free Software can do. Feedback and comments are always very welcome. Best Regards, Wolfgang ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debug board
On Saturday, Sep 15, 2007, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: does anyone happen to know if the debug board of the advanced Neo kit will be compatible with future versions of the Neo (or other FIC OpenMok o phones, at that)? It will definitely be compatible w/ GTA02. As for the successor models, we can't make a definitive answer yet (there is not even schematics nor silicon for those anyways ;), but of course we'll try to make it compatible... Does this means there're no plans on the drawing board for GTA03? Even if it's just an incremental improvement on GTA02, I'd expect there to be *some* plans - the wiki is surely full of suggestions :) --pj ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: information efficient text enty using dasher
On Tuesday, May 29, 2007, Peter Hoffmann writes: Hi i just stumbled over a video at the google talks series[0] about information-efficient text entry using dasher[1]. I think this is quite an interesting input method for mobile devices with touch screens or motion sensors. And it is open source and its user interface is based on gtk. An other great point is that it is not only limited to english text, but you an use any input language/alphabet you want. I'm looking forward to test it on a neo. What do you think? Regards Peter [0] http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5078334075080674416 [1] http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/ I think you should've searched the wiki :) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Text_Input lists Dasher as only one of over a dozen different wishlisted input methods. --pj ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Neo-use idea
If someone wants to repurpose the neo hardware, check out what the guys at http://www.environmental-studies.de/products/pet-tracking/pet-tracking.h tml are doing. They're sold out for now, but they might be worth talking to to see if they want to try and start from a base Neo and just add some custom software to. Random idea as I was browsing the web. --pj ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Please no crossposting! Re: Information regarding theMessaging Support in OpenMoko
I think a good Jabber client could totally supplant MMS - it support file transfers, which is all MMS really does (I think), as well as things MMS never dreamed of like encryption and presence and etc. Putting a good mobile-UI on, say, Psi or one of the other open source Jabber clients shouldn't be too difficult. Unless there's already one that I don't know about? Another feature could actually be an SMS-to-Jabber gateway that runs on your phone, so as long as your phone has power (and permission to get on the net, etc) your SMSs will get gatewayed to Jabber so you don't miss them if you happen to leave your phone at home. --pj On Thursday, Feb 1, 2007, Sean Moss-Pultz writes: On 2/1/07 4:30 AM, David Schlesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, who uses MMS? Only pretty much the majority of actual cellphone users in Europe, based on the market research and carrier requirements I've read... IMHO, only because nobody has given us anything better. We're trying to do that. So I asked the guys to ignore MMS for the now. If this is an issue I'll put resources on this in the future. Right now, I'd much prefer to see solutions that use GPRS such an IM / Email / ... Seems like the typical user would just email and attach media and/or just s/ftp Typical _Linux_ user, maybe. This is the sort of thing which (in my view) represents something of a disconnect between the goals of having as open a phone as possible and selling a lot of phones... You might be right. But I personally feel that MMS is fundamentally flawed. Costs aside, it's just not the way I think media should be transferred. The benefits are just too low for the end user. We're trying to fix this. Really guys, we're trying to rethink lots of things with OpenMoko. I don't want to do the same things just running under FOSS. We'd be missing out on a huge invitation to innovate both as a company and a community. Why not use the flexibility and rethink how we want these devices to work -- as end users -- not just for geeks but for everyone? I'm not saying we'll get things right the first time. Just that we're going to try our best ;-) _This_ opportunity is what makes me excited about OpenMoko. Not (simply) the fact that it's FOSS based. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Developers phone also fit for early adopters?
Sean please just ignore idiots like this. The rest of us know you're doing the best job you can and want to see the phone out ASAP just as much as we do. In summary: ignore the trolls and keep doing what you're doing. --pj On Saturday, Jan 27, 2007, Sean Moss-Pultz writes: On 1/26/07 9:40 AM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The fact that I didn't answer to that mail doesn't mean I didn't read it. Should I now say you obviously didn't follow your own annoucements and didn't read the topic you set on IRC because you said the phone would come out in January? Listen, there's nobody on this list that wishes we'd had this phone out in January more than I. But delays happen. You can't seriously be calling us liars now are you? -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Idea for OpenMoko: Kid Mode
How about a locked-down 'kid version' of the UI with touchable pictures for 'mommy', 'daddy', etc ? Maybe not even labelled, but just the pictures? --pj ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
