Re: Request for stable, automated build process
On Fri, 2008-05-02 at 07:02 +0200, Joachim Steiger wrote: i do not really get what you mean by labels. when buildhost successfully finished a build there is a new image. else, there is not. if it cannot compile all dependencies then it logically cannot package it. i think i know what you really want in the end. a full CI representation of what buildhost does build and what not. If you're using buildbot on the buildhost, it might be nice to enable the waterfall output (http://buildbot.net/trac/wiki/ScreenShots) so that users and developers can view the current progress/problems online. We use buildbot in OpenedHand to build nightly images of Poky. We have automatic notifications sent to a mailing list when a build problem occurs, which includes the last person to check anything into svn for the module that failed. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Request for stable, automated build process
On Thu, 2008-05-01 at 11:01 -0500, Bobby Martin wrote: I sent this before to openmoko-devel and was greeted with a deafening silence, so I'm resending to a broader audience. As evidenced by a recent post to openmoko-devel by saurabh gupta, one of the GSoC selectees, this really is a problem. The longer it's put off, the more potential benefits (in the form of community contributors who give up rather than improve OM) are lost. OpenMoko (the software stack) is constantly changing and being updated. It is still in the very early stages of development and does not have a definite design specification or vision yet. I think until there are more concrete plans for the software strategy, you cannot expect a stable platform. I'm not disagreeing with you here, just pointing out why these problems arise. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Request for stable, automated build process
On Thu, 2008-05-01 at 11:29 -0500, Bobby Martin wrote: I understand that your answer may well be the reason things are as they are, but I disagree strongly with the sentiment. To my mind, the first step after you have an early prototype of a system that works is to set up a continuous integration server that automatically builds, runs automated tests, and labels appropriately. Without that, any work you do is shooting in the dark. This is (of course) particularly true for a distributed project, where you can't just yell over the wall to someone that they broke the build. Well, there is buildhost.openmoko.org which builds images nightly. I've been asking for the toolchain to be fixed and updated and I believe Julian has this on his TODO list. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: accellerometer test
On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 21:37 +0200, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: Hi guys, just got around to testing one (the 2nd one seems broken or unaccessible on my prototypes) of the Neo FreeRunner accellerometers. Both seem to work on my prototype (GTA02v5), as long as X isn't running. If I start my X session, event3 is no longer accessible, so I imagine something else is reading it already? Does neod open either of them? Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: accellerometer test
On 3 Apr 2008, at 17:58, Andy Green wrote: neod has them both open, but the input subsystem should be okay with that and you having them too. I think you need to make sure you have a real recent kernel with the patch to improve locking for the service routine. Before I tried the test, I re-flashed with a new kernel I built today. Let me know if there is anything I can do to debug the problem. Regards, Thomas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OpenMoko Presentation in London
UKUUG is hosting a talk by Ole Tange about OpenMoko next week in London (9th April). I'm planning to go along and take the latest GTA02 (FreeRunner) prototype if anyone is interested in seeing it in action. I'll probably also stick around afterwards to chat and grab some dinner. More details here: http://www.ukuug.org/events/openmoko/ Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
TangoGPS/OpenMoko Development Fosdem talk online
Marcus did an excellent talk at Fosdem this year on his project TangoGPS, and on OpenMoko development in general. Unfortunately I missed the first few minutes, but it's now available available on-line so I can catch what I missed. I would recommend it to anyone interested in OpenMoko development. Info: http://fosdem.org/2008/schedule/events/475 Video: http://video.fosdem.org/2008/lightningtalks/FOSDEM2008-tangogps.ogg Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2007.11 snapshot available
On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 09:20 +0100, Krzysztof Kajkowski wrote: Wiadomość napisana w dniu Dec 5, 2007, o godz 12:51 AM, przez Jon Phillips: Priorities for mass usage: 1. phone working 2. acceptable battery life (1 full day without charge) Am I wrong? For me it's also finger-usable keyboard - just like the one in Qtopia. With that you can operate your phone without stylus (in most cases). Chris has worked on a multi-tap input method: http://chrislord.net/blog/Software/multitap-pad.enlighten Obviously T9 will not be implemented due to patent issues. I will ask him if the source is available anywhere. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SMS is required + fix for battery drained isse (was: 2007.11 snapshot available)
On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 01:45 +0100, Bernhard Kaindl wrote: On Tue, 4 Dec 2007, Jon Phillips wrote: [...] So can we __please__ put the thought of text messaging (SMS) being optional for mass __usage__ (not resting, as it's now) to rest now? Of course it's not neccesary if you do not plan to ready the Neo for mass-sales in the next 5 years. By then maybe everying is done thru mails, but for now, it's all still done thru SMS in middle Europe at least. BTW, SMS works with Qtopia: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_Neo1973 The latest snapshot includes the first alpha version of the Messages application which allows you to send and receive SMS messages. Unfortunately there is a bug which means it won't display messages from unknown contacts (i.e. people not in the address book), but expect that to be fixed in the updates very soon. [...] Either the 500mA charging has to be available at all times (also when the battery is is completely empty), or a charger which is able to instatanously power-on the Neo so that there is no interruption in phone use when the battery is completely drained must be provided. I can confirm that GTA02 fixes this - you do not even need a battery in the device to use it if the USB cable is connected. I've heard that the Nokia DT-14 charges the Neo battery about 75%, which should be enough to revive them. Regards, Thomas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2007.11 snapshot available
On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 17:51 +0100, Peter Rasmussen wrote: Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: Peter Rasmussen wrote: I didn't get very far with a SIM card in my GTA01, because the PIN I enter isn't accepted, even though it is correct. This sounds like http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1028 Could you please try to a) submit the PIN once OK, I did. It takes a few seconds before it accepts the first digit, but after that it is with a more 'normal' delay. b) press cancel for all subsequently appearing PIN dialogs OK, after twice hitting Cancel, the dialog stopped appearing. c) use the gsm panel applet to power on the antenna and then autoregister. This didn't seem to be necessary, as a popup appeared (before the first PIN dialog re-appeared) that told me it had connected to my mobile service provider's network. Could you let us know a bit more about your SIM card, e.g. service provider, type of service? If you get the chance, please update your openmoko-dialer2 package to the latest SVN revision, as I have just committed an updated solution to bug 1028. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Email App
On Wed, 2007-11-21 at 02:24 +, Justyn Butler wrote: Is there any kind of app for sending and receiving SMS (text) messages yet? Or does it still have to be done using AT commands as the wiki suggests? You'll be please to know we had our first success at sending SMS from openmoko-messages today. It can also read received messages. Please see my reply from yesterday for more information. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTK vs QTopia vs Android - (was: Re: Android needs applications) (will be: new vision for openmoko)
On Fri, 2007-11-16 at 14:59 +0100, Michael Schmidt wrote: [...] So make a poll for GTK-OS versus Qtopia. maybe it is not only a technical question. Is there an emulator to test both systems on my windows machine? then i can give a vote based on the stomach. If not, then I vote for Qtopia, as this allows secure VOIP with the mentioned Qt-Application for openmoko. We've had this discussion on these mailing lists lots of times before. Competition is good, choice is good. In the end, everyone will benefit from being able to choose what to run on their phone. As far as I know, OpenMoko Inc is not about to throw away all the hard work that has gone into creating the OpenMoko platform. If you want to use Qtopia, good for you, but now that you have made that choice, please allow the rest of the OpenMoko community to continue working on their own platform. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: developing C/C++ applications for OpenMoko -- where do we stand?
On Mon, 2007-11-12 at 09:59 -0800, Joshua Layne wrote: [...] If what Turkay says about the OpenMoko development platform is approximately correct, this project may be doomed. How can we be this far down the road without enough documentation that a larger group of developers can successfully write C/C++ apps for OpenMoko? I believe the core of this perceived issue is the cross-dev environment, as most developers are not developing on native armv5te platforms. There are libraries for the openmoko 'widgets' that have been produced (openedhand). Otherwise, I woul dimagine it is very similar to developing in any other gtk+ environment. Confirmed, and you don't even need to use the libmokoui widgets if you don't want to. There are lots of people already writing C/C++ applications for OpenMoko. Chances are, if you can write GUI applications for Linux, then you can easily write them for this phone as well. The only tricky bit is cross compiling. The rest should work exactly as if you were developing for your desktop. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some feedback from using the neo as a phone for a day
Hi Igor, It would be very useful if you could file your issues on the OpenMoko bug tracker at http://bugzilla.openmoko.org. This would ensure your issues are dealt with and you receive proper feedback from the developers. Regards, Thomas On Sun, 2007-10-14 at 22:38 -0400, Igor Foox wrote: Yesterday (and today) I used the neo as a phone for the first time, after gsm started mostly working out of the box. I'm really excited about this development and I think that it marks a huge milestone for the project. So congratulations to everyone who worked so hard on this project! I've got a lot of feedback about my usage of the phone. Both minor points as well as bigger design issues. I'm going to post them here for discussion, in no particular order. But if there are better places where specific points should be redirected, I'll be happy to do that. A lot of the issues I'm going to raise are negative, but it's just constructive criticism from a user's point of view. :-) Voice/Talking: - There is a very strong amplification of background noise when in a voice call. If you are in a quiet room the sound is pretty good (and the volume is nice and loud). But when there is even mild background noise in your location it gets amplified, and both you and the other party barely hear anything. - I tried playing with sidetone in alsamixer but that didn't help, so I don't think that that's the problem. - I'm not sure in which component of the software stack this happens, but it seems to me that we might need to investigate some noise cancellation algorithms and apply those to the incoming sound when in a voice call. Does anyone have any experience with this, or does anyone at least know whether this is a common thing to do with cell phones? UI: - The current keyboard is highly unusable. I know it's intended to be used with a stylus, and it's fine for that, but it's completely unreasonable to expect a user to have a stylus for activities like SMS, or entering a new contact. And even with pretty small fingers it's pretty hard for me to type on the keyboard. - In the Contacts application, it's impossible to enter a phone number (and maybe an email address) for a contact when the phone is not connected to the GSM network. - In the dialer application there's apparently a 'cursor' that you can move by clicking somewhere on the textfield displaying the current phone number. But there is no visual feedback for the cursor so if you accidentally place it in the middle of a number you're left thinking you will be very confused. - The scrolling is very cool, but it's often difficult to scroll when the items you're scrolling are clickable, because it incorrectly gets recognized as a click. - The dialer does not always pop up on an incoming call. So when the phone starts ringing you need to open the dialer application and then answer the call. - The dialer application has the hangup button on the top right of the screen when in a call. When you actually talk on the phone it's _really_ easy to touch that part of the screen with your face, which results in 3-4 accidental hangups per call. Oops. :-) - The status icons on the top tend to disappear once in a while. Sometimes a reboot gets them back. Sometimes it doesn't. But usually two or three reboots get them back. Very perplexing. :) I'm going to continue using the phone for the next few days and try to identify more issues. I think that the only major issue here is the background noise problem. If that is resolved we would be well on our way to having a phone ready to be tested by some real consumers. Igor -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bi-weekly OpenMoko community update
On Sat, 2007-10-13 at 12:02 +0200, Pedro Aguilar wrote: Hi, It would be nice that the software development your're doing at the moment would be backwards compatible with GTA01 (at least the parts that are not hw dependent and are different between GTA01 and GTA02), otherwise the users of GTA01 would risk to remain without support for upgrades. This would be important for all the doc too. BTW, will the debug board and wires of GTA01 be compatible with GTA02? I would like to buy GTA02 and use the debug board and wires that I already have for GTA01. Yes, the debug board is generic. I have used my v2 debug board with GTA01 and GTA02. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bi-weekly OpenMoko community update
On Sat, 2007-10-13 at 18:17 +0200, Jan Dittmer wrote: Hello Michael, it would be nice to have some info about this white screen of death plus vibrator which is affecting some people. Especially if that is a hardware or software problem. It's pretty annoying and generally happens if you want to show someone the phone :-( I cannot remember any official statement on this issue - which is kind of sad I believe a white screen at boot normally means that the CPU is on, but the boot loader has not run. Where have other people mentioned this problem? Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: dev mess
On Wed, 2007-10-10 at 01:43 +0200, Kero van Gelder wrote: First off, perhaps you can explain a bit more about what you are trying to achieve with your set up. There are pre-built images available from buildhost.openmoko.org. As a developer, I want to be able to extend and add software to OpenMoko. Afaik this can be done wih separate ipkgs, as well as building your own image. For reasons of accepting my additions and changes, I think I'll need the second, eventually. Creating ipkgs is smoother when using bitbake in the local part of the OE tree, too. I am developing the some of the applications for OpenMoko and I would recommend setting up an OpenEmbedded rather than using the MokoMakefile. Instructions can be found here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2#How_to_build Writing a .bb file to create your ipkg and install it on the device is then fairly simple. Copying existing ones is often a good way to get started. All the rest is a consequence of that desire. Things just break. They shouldn't, imho, but they do. So, on a reasonably fresh update (today, as well as last Thu evening) both dropbear and the graphical environment are broken. Let's start with dropbear. It's simpler. Is dropbear broken for other people updating their OM dev env? There are thousands of recipes in OE and occasionally a change does break things. However, I rebuild my environment most days and haven't had the problems you describe. Could you describe the problems with libgsmd and gsmd in a bit more detail? If you find the Neo1973 is completely locking up, then it is likely your Neo1973 is set up to multiplex the gsm and serial port. This can be disabled by editing a parameter in u-boot. After using libgsmd on gsmd for a bit, something starts spitting out lots of P[ or something like it. Fills the console of the Neo easily. Then it stops spitting. Neo locks up, reboot necessary. Spitting of stuff happens, without me using libgsmd or gsmd, even with symlinks in /etc/rc*.d removed. Succeful booting becomes impossible, I do not get an ssh connection going anymore. Neo might be locked at that point, but I can not verify that. Reinstall needed. A reinstall shouldn't be needed after a software error, unless you were upgrading. If you have an old version of u-boot it may be worth checking that you ran 'nand erase rootfs' before flashing the rootfs. When I had problems with gsmd it would lock the entire phone but it wouldn't print anything out as far as I know. The following bug report might be of some help: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788 So far, I have absolutely not been able to figure anything out. Is it the kernel? likely. Which part causes it? communication by gsmd, I'd guess. Specific communication? I need CPIN and I haven't seen a GUI app that requests a PIN code. So I guess there's only a handful of people using PIN codes. But that's going on a limb. What gets broken? Your guess is as good as mine. The Dialer application should ask for a PIN if required. If it is not working properly, please file a bug. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Usability team?
On Mon, 2007-10-08 at 23:31 -0700, Justin Wong wrote: Hello! I've been really interested in interface usability and design since I've been taking this HCI course at my university. I've been interested in and following OpenMoko development a little. I'd love to know if and how I can get involved with the OpenMoko project with respect to interface usability and design. Is there a specific team that does this sort of work? Hi Justin, The current (2007.2) GUI was designed at OpenedHand by myself and a few others. I wrote about some of the design decisions here: http://blogs.gnome.org/thos/2007/08/21/openmoko-20072/ If you have any specific questions though, please let me know. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: dev mess
Hi Kero, First off, perhaps you can explain a bit more about what you are trying to achieve with your set up. There are pre-built images available from buildhost.openmoko.org. Could you describe the problems with libgsmd and gsmd in a bit more detail? If you find the Neo1973 is completely locking up, then it is likely your Neo1973 is set up to multiplex the gsm and serial port. This can be disabled by editing a parameter in u-boot. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: dfu-util only gives Permission Denied
On Sun, 2007-10-07 at 18:26 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, This is my first entry after receiving my OpenMoko kit this friday. This is also my first time using a Linux Computer to do anything real, so please forgive me if my questions are naive and simple =) So I have my new Ubuntu computer up and running and I wanted to start flashing the Neo phone just get a feel for it before attacking the development environment. I downloaded the dfu-util software and moved it to /bin for convenience. Now everytime I try try to run dfu-util I get a Permission Denied error. I have tried using sudo dfu-util --help as well as using sudo su - to be a root user but i get only Permission Denied. Now I get the feeling that I don't have the required Linux skills to solve this myself, hence this question to this list. does anyone have a good answer to this ? I suspect you have not set executable permission on the file. To do this, right click the file, select properties and open the permissions tab. Here you should be able to select Allow executing this file as a program (or something similar). To do the same via the command line, type: chmod a+x /path/to/dfu-util Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3G status within the US?
On Mon, 2007-10-08 at 13:51 -0700, ian douglas wrote: The version number on my TMobile SIM is 39.01a and does NOT work. My ATT SIM is listed on the wiki within the range of serial numbers that will not work. I'm disappointed that this isn't something that's field-programmable. I feel like I wasted the money buying this phone since it's just a glorified calculator at this point. Yes, I know it's still a 'developer' phone, but when I can't even jump into the code to help solve this, it sorta defeats the purpose. Hi Ian, How new and up-to-date is the software on your phone? We have tried a 3G card in one of our Neo1973s (in the UK) and it worked without a hitch. If you can't get it to work with OpenMoko, it might be worth trying Qtopia to confirm whether it is more likely an issue with software or the hardware. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Update from OpenMoko
On Tue, 2007-10-02 at 09:27 +0100, Thomas Wood wrote: On Mon, 2007-10-01 at 19:28 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Will I be able to use GTA02 as a phone? Or will I still be required to have the neo plugged in via usb tied to a computer and ssh in, and face east while standing on one leg to make a phone call? More direct question: What state will the software be in when the GTA02 ships? (Not that I will buy a GTA02, I am just wondering when I can use my GTA01) If you're using the latest OpenMoko software (i.e. in the last week or so), you should find it is becoming a lot more usable. There are quite a number of patches to gsmd being applied in OpenEmbedded which means it appears to be a lot more stable, which in turn means making calls is a lot more reliable. We've been using two Neo1973s to call each other multiple times in the last week without any fiddling on the command line. Of course, battery life is a separate issue. Maybe I spoke to soon. If you enable the Full Power Management mode from the power button menu, the battery will last for much longer (e.g. overnight). Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Update from OpenMoko
On Mon, 2007-10-01 at 19:28 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Will I be able to use GTA02 as a phone? Or will I still be required to have the neo plugged in via usb tied to a computer and ssh in, and face east while standing on one leg to make a phone call? More direct question: What state will the software be in when the GTA02 ships? (Not that I will buy a GTA02, I am just wondering when I can use my GTA01) If you're using the latest OpenMoko software (i.e. in the last week or so), you should find it is becoming a lot more usable. There are quite a number of patches to gsmd being applied in OpenEmbedded which means it appears to be a lot more stable, which in turn means making calls is a lot more reliable. We've been using two Neo1973s to call each other multiple times in the last week without any fiddling on the command line. Of course, battery life is a separate issue. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unified PIM
On Wed, 2007-09-26 at 18:49 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess my only comment is that while I don't really care which interface people use on their phones, it seems like the data interfaces should be the same... If I open up qtopia phone edition and look at my contacts or maybe even edit them and then close it down and open up my OM interface and look at them, they should be the same. All edit are visible.. No double entry. Agreed, but I'd take it one step further. Given the neo has an internet connection, why can't PIM data be stored on a web server and just cached locally. Couldn't you then integrate that into desktop PIM applications too? Ok, so this isn't a new idea. :-) Evolution Data Server supports integration to groupware backends, but from what I've seen, these are enterprise-class groupware servers designed for corporations. I can't seem to find anything designed for the consumer, an internet-accessible groupware server I can sign up to and store my contacts in a single place. The problem is not local - I'd be surprised if Embedded EDS couldn't be adapted to store it's data on a server and just use a cached dataset locally. The problem is that this requires some server infrastructure and so far I've yet to find something which will do it. Has anyone else seen this done? Interestingly, there was a Google Summer of Code project to write a Google Calendar backend to EDS. See: http://ebbyw.wordpress.com/2007/08/30/google-calendar-evolution/ Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On Tue, 2007-09-18 at 20:40 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would you really say either gnome or is wasted effort and should be discontinued? Or vim/gnome,linux/bsd,gecko/webkit/mysql/postgres... Yes, it's my personal belief that these projects all represent wasted effort and that if they cooperated they'd achieve more. I always get a nice warm fuzzy feeling whenever I see a forked project merge (Compiz Fusion, Webkit/KHTML) You don't think competition has it's advantages? A bigger project doesn't necessarily equal better results. There are significant differences between (for example) KDE and GNOME that make it useful to have a choice. They are tackling the same problem but in different ways. It is very important people can experiment and try different things. Anything else would be to stifle innovation and progress. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On Wed, 2007-09-19 at 14:03 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] This is something someone else touched on. If you're writing an application, abstract all the complicated stuff away from the UI code, then you can make whatever kind of UI you want. NetworkManager I think is a perfect example of this. It would be good to have a defined interface to access PIM info, make calls etc. I believe LiPS has been set up to do just that. So perhaps it would be better to make moth OpenMoko Qtopia PE LiPS complient. I heard that the LiPS forum hired a load of GPE PE developers to develop a reference implementation. It might be worth looking at GPE PE and lifting some of the standardised bits. I don't know, perhaps this is happening already? With regards to the contacts and calendar applications in OpenMoko, they use Evolution Data Server to store their data, in the same way Evolution does on the desktop. In turn, this stores the data in the vCard and iCal formats, which are industry standard. One more thing on duplication of effort... It's nice to see OpenHand developers working on OpenMoko, are there any plans to merge Sato into OpenMoko? There's currently 4 GTK+ mobile phone frameworks I know of (GPE PE, Sato, OpenMoko Hiker). Surely no one can claim that much duplicated effort is a good thing? I can see the argument for KDE/Gnome, GTK+/QT, but not 4 projects all relying on the same technology all doing exactly the same thing. Firstly, Sato is not a mobile phone framework in any sense at all. It does not include any applications or services that would make a mobile phone useful. Sato is simply a visual style. Secondly, the OpenMoko framework is different from projects such as Hiker because it only contains functions and classes that actually give benefit to the user and developer, rather than wrapping existing technologies for the sake of it. This means OpenMoko contains much less overhead than other frameworks and allows developers greater flexibility. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On Wed, 2007-09-19 at 20:59 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Firstly, Sato is not a mobile phone framework in any sense at all. It does not include any applications or services that would make a mobile phone useful. Sato is simply a visual style. Strange, the description on http://www.pokylinux.org/ says: Sato is our experimental reference/example GTK+/Matchbox based PDA/smartphone like user interface environment aimed primarily at handheld devices with very high DPI VGA displays. It features a full suite of PIM applications, multimedia playback, web browsing, games and more. Huh?? User interface environment basically means the look and feel. It doesn't mean that it includes any sort of framework. It also says it is simply a PDA/smartphone *like* interface, not that it actually includes any usable phone software. I'll get this updated if it's causing confusion. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On Wed, 2007-09-19 at 20:57 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I mentioned earlier that cairo uses Xrender to copy compose rasterized graphics onto the screen. Some graphics hardware can accelerate some of the XRender operations, however, in X.org it seems the current driver model makes that very difficult, resulting in limited acceleration and thus slowness (different drivers accelerate different XRender operations). To fix that, Glitz was created to allow cairo to render to a GL context and use the 3D hardware to accelerate the composition, sidestepping XRender completely. And there are already plans for someone to do the necessary XRender coding to support GTA02. Lets look at OpenMoko's rendering path. Thomas Wood mentioned yesterday, OpenMoko currently uses a pixmap based theme engine. The pixmaps are (IMO) beautiful. They are all shiny and curved and have a nice orange-black gradient. While they look great, they are slow as the pixmaps need to be copied from off-screen buffers to the frame buffer. My guess is that's why the OpenMoko interface is a bit slugish (only a guess, I suspect others on this list know a lot more about this than I do!). Thomas mentioned yesterday that the new theme engine for OpenMoko used XLib (though GDK) rather than pixmaps or cairo. That's going to be much faster because there are no big copies involved. However, I don't understand how using XLib is going to produce the same graphical results. There's no facility for doing gradients or shadows or anything pretty? Because coding simple gradients is trivial and I've already done it :-) The code for the Moko GTK+ engine is already available in SVN and once it's more fully featured I will be posting screenshots on my blog. All in all, the great thing about OpenMoko and the Neo1973 is that you're free to choose whatever path you wish to take. If you want to use Qtopia on your Neo1973 then you are more than welcome to do so! There are many many different Linux distributions and probably almost as many graphical user interface projects. One of the great things about the Free Software philosophy is choice and the Neo1973 is one of the first phones that gives you that ability to choose every single bit of software that you use on it. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On Tue, 2007-09-18 at 19:13 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone seen these benchmarks: http://zrusin.blogspot.com/2006/10/benchmarks.html It compares Cairo (what GTK+ uses) against QT. When it comes to rendering, I believe Qtopia QT use the same code. So ignoring X, Qt was respectively 7, 5 and 6 times faster. Than Cairo in those plain tests. Hi, I'd just like to mention that OpenMoko is not using Cairo for rendering, so this comparison is not relevant to OpenMoko. We are currently using a temporary pixmap based theme. In fact, just this morning I started writing the replacement theme engine for OpenMoko that uses direct X rendering (that is, it uses GDK rather than Cairo). Since I was also testing Qtopia on the Neo1973 this morning, I can say that the speed of Qtopia rendering and the new GDK based engine I wrote are very similar. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: does dialer supports multiple calls at a time??
On Thu, 2007-09-13 at 16:36 +0530, Phani Kumar Kancharala wrote: Hi all, I am new to openmoko... before having the real phone experience thought of going through the source to understand how the moko applications work , particularly the DIALER. I could follow the call flow and all. I tried to locate where the call object is created to keep track of the call progress and found like the call progress is integrated withe dialer object. If my observation is true then here is my concern Is moko dialer supporting call hold feature to handle two or more calls at once? if it supports where can i find it? Hi, The Dialer does not currently support call hold or multiple concurrent calls because these features are not implemented in gsmd. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2007.2 dialer suggestions
On Wed, 2007-09-12 at 11:55 -0700, Joshua Layne wrote: I saw some feedback on this at one point, but I have been unable to locate the thread - so... I like most of what I see in the 2007.2 dialer mockups, but there are two glaring usabiliy issues in my mind. One, the answer icon doesn't look that much different from the ignore icon: http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/f/f0/Dialer-incoming-arrows.png We have already asked the designers for a bunch of new icons to solve these issues. Could there be a color shift here? maybe a green/red thing? I know that green/red is bad for color blind, but for those of us who aren't color blind it would help (and I would argue that orange/orange is just as bad for anyone colorblind (or not)) Two (and this was previously commented on), the hangup button should NOT replace the answer button. http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/f/f7/Dialer-talking-arrows.png A suggestion would be to have the speakerphone button replace the answer button. Positional association with function can be very strong - it needs to be intuitive. If you check the latest screenshots, you will notice this was already fixed (as reported in this bug: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=730). Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Feature status page
On Tue, 2007-08-28 at 22:01 -0400, Jacques Poulin wrote: Hello, Is there a page somewhere that gives the status of the different features usually found on a phone for the Openmoko project ? Sounds like an excellent idea! Would you like to volunteer to create the page in the wiki? We can then make sure it's updated on a regular basis (weekly perhaps?). Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
On Fri, 2007-08-24 at 16:59 +0200, wim delvaux wrote: HI all, Champion of open source and user of familiar on Ipaq when time was new, i wonder if it was such a good idea to rewrite from scratch an entire GUI system. Knowing that the device is now about 6 months late and looking at the overall stability and completeness of the GUI (List of issues is still long perhaps too long ?) I wonder if it would not have been a better solution to put things like QTopia on the phone. I mean, how long will it still take to get things to this level (http://trolltech.com/products/qtopia/learnmore/screenshots4/?searchterm=screenshots) ? To be honest, I think we are quite close already but you really need to be more specific about what you mean. [...] For me, the free community does not need (really) a new GUI library. It needs a good phone ! Our interest lies in having a nicely featured device available so that we hackers can release our creativity and write apps that users like and not - yet again - re-invent the wheel to start all over again. And for what ? For a theme ? For true GPL ? ... The primary aim of the OpenMoko project and the Neo1973 is to create a software platform and a device that are entirely Free in the spirit of the Free Software movement. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html for a definition of this. I don't think we need just another phone, we need one that embraces the ideals of the Free Software movement. This way we will be creating something truly unique and valuable. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
On Fri, 2007-08-24 at 17:49 +0200, wim delvaux wrote: On Friday 24 August 2007 17:14:54 Thomas Wood wrote: On Fri, 2007-08-24 at 16:59 +0200, wim delvaux wrote: HI all, [...] To be honest, I think we are quite close already but you really need to be more specific about what you mean. Well I just flashed with the latest 0813 release and beside looking great, there is not much yet that is ready : no bluetooth, no gprs, no contacts, phone working a bit, no mail, suspend resume not OK yet, crashes etc etc. I think you must have missed something - the dialer and contacts is definitely working fairly well. You should make sure you update your software (ipkg update ipkg upgrade) as we have made even more significant progress in fixing bugs in the last week. Bluetooth and mail I can't comment on since I'm not involved in those areas. [...] The primary aim of the OpenMoko project and the Neo1973 is to create a software platform and a device that are entirely Free in the spirit of the Free Software movement. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html for a definition of this. I don't think we need just another phone, we need one that embraces the ideals of the Free Software movement. This way we will be creating something truly unique and valuable. But wat IS free ? Personally the 'free' as defined by Trolltech : free for free soft, payed for soft that will be sold, sounds more 'reasonable' then free and you cannot make money out of your application. For me freedom means I have the possibility to do what I want with it providing I do not harm the rights of others. I think the freedom of QTopia (compare it to KDE) is good enough. It gives me lots of freedom and If I make a buck out of what I do with their work I need to pay them a buck too ... Maybe good enough for you, but why should we compromise? We can't start a revolution based on compromises! Regards, Thomas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bricked Neo
On Wed, 2007-08-22 at 01:43 +, an unknown sender wrote: I ran a nand erase when I was a bit tired and have killed my phone. As long as you didn't erase uboot you should still be able to re-flash the phone without a debug board. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Lipstick on a fetus
Hi Ken, I hope once you've tested 2007.2 you will find there have been many improvements in the Dialer. We have re-written large parts of it in an effort to make it simpler and more stable. There are still teething problems lower down the stack (gsmd for example), but significant progress is being made. One of the aims of 2007.2 was to simplify our approach so we could concentrate on getting the core features working well (such as making and receiving calls). Please help us by testing the snapshots and filing bugs on bugzilla.openmoko.org. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Screenshots
On Wed, 2007-08-22 at 19:49 +0300, Kalle Kärkkäinen wrote: [...] I guess that there should be something extra on the ui. It's pretty plain as it is. Maybe there could be animations or some other stuff that'd make the phone come to life? Maybe for the menus and toolbars or something like in compiz? Firstly, You have to build a project that works withing the technical limitations of your hardware. Sure, the original mockups (2007.1) looked impressive, but there was no way they were going to be implemented nicely with our hardware and resources. Secondly, it's only natural that after a while something that was once new and jazzy will become old and plain. The most exciting thing about this project is not that it will have a fancy user interface or some amazing killer feature. The most exciting thing about this project is that the whole phone and platform is based on the principles of Free Software. Besides, what's the point of adding animations or other stuff if the most important features don't work in the first place? We're building a smartphone from scratch here, so let's get our priorities right! Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
