Re: wiki.openmoko.org unreachable?
http://www.robtex.com/dns/wiki.openmoko.org.html#records No errors found. jo...@openmoko.org wrote afaik the whole infrastructure is hosted by Hetzner sub yourserver which in turn is our wellknown openmoko central services alias roh and gismo. Looks like a misconfic in one of the boxes not routing correctly to one of the vhosts. I pinged roh about it ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: mokomaze 5.5 and shr-u 20100921 accelerometers off axis
I noticed this too. I just installed Mokomaze for the first time, so I just thought the accelorometers was a bit off by design. --- Kent jerjoz.for...@gmail.com wrote hello list, im running latest mokomaze and shr-u 20100921, even after re-calibrating the the game mokomaze reads the accelerometers off axis. meaning if i lay the freerunner on a flat surface and start lifting on its left edge, the moko maze ball moves to top left of the screen. and if i start lifting on the right edge the mokomaze ball moves to bottom right. any one else experiencing this? were the accelerometers changed somewhere along the way, i dont recall the game behaving in this way before. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Phase 1 sales / order process / misconception
On Tue, Aug 14, 2007 at 07:20:47PM +0530, vivek khurana wrote: > On 8/7/07, Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Because such a website, especially if it is to fulfill our security and > > privacy concerns, needs quite a bit of development time. > > There are several developers on the list with experience in ecommerce > + supply cahin management. We are willing to help in building the > wesite which will ease the delivery process (automate as many tasks as > possible) and provide updated information to every user. > All you need to do is ask for help. It is always a great deal more complicated than "just asking for help". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Isn't this a little early?
On Mon, Aug 13, 2007 at 09:56:54AM -0400, Ian Darwin wrote: > Robin Paulson wrote: > >i've reported it to mcafee siteadvisor and google as a fraudulent site. > > Pointless. > > Go to their domain hider: http://privacyprotect.org/ and report it as > "Fraud". > > > those testimonials are fake, they were up before neo was released, and > > there's no way any user would be happy with using it at the moment > > Tell the domain hider. I did that a couple of weeks ago. I got back a message saying that for cases of fraud you have to report to the registrar, not privacyprotect.org: Domain Name: FREEOPENMOKO.COM Registrar: DIRECT INFORMATION PVT LTD D/B/A PUBLICDOMAINREGISTRY.COM I didn't go any further than that... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo 1973 is sold out...
Somewhat off topic... About 20 years ago I saw a small print ad in the back of National Geographic (I think it was) by a company named "skullduggery", offering plaster casts of fossilized skulls, including a *really* *cool* sabertooth cat skull. I ordered one, and waited. and waited. and waited. I finally called -- they were practically local -- and they said they were completely overwhelmed by the response to the ad, and production simply couldn't meet the demand, but that they were working on it. After about 3 months the skull finally arrived, and it was indeed *really* *cool*. I still have it, and the company is still in business: skullduggery.com. (Just noticed that they have a 1/4 size Tyrannosaurus rex skull that also looks *really* *cool*...) Sometimes good things take a while :-) No need to get excited. Kent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
On Tue, Jul 24, 2007 at 02:07:03PM -0500, Jonathon Suggs wrote: [...] > The bottom line is that mailing lists are not an acceptable means of > communicating with technical novices. AGAIN, we are not talking about > discontinuing the development list (that is/should be used by > *developers*). We are talking about Joe and Jane Sixpack, people that > don't understand the term MUA, people that would be HORRIFIED if they > started getting 70-80 email in a day, people who *don't* use email for > project collaboration or searching for answers. *THAT* is the reason > that we are requesting a forum. Not for me, and certainly not for you > (again, the collective you) that look down upon anyone who can't figure > out how to setup email filters, conversation threading, and whatever > else is required to make mailing lists be the more efficient means of > communicating. Get off your technical superiority high horse and > realize WHY we are requesting this...for improved communication with > those who are less technically savvy. > > Sorry for the rant, but the arrogance and snobbery are killing me in > this discussion if you can't tell... Not arrogance or snobbery -- different view of reality. At this point, openmoko *is* a development project. It's emphatically not for Joe and Jane -- it says so on the web site, where you order your phone. There are disclaimers all over the place. It's not even for early adopters -- it's for hackers and developers. Explicitly. It is devoutly to be hoped that someday there will be a need for a forum for Joe and Jane. But as a real concern that's at *least* 6 months away. More realistically, it will be a year before there is a unit that will be robust enough for Joe and Jane. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
email vs forum (was Re: OK, the forum is coming..)
On Tue, Jul 24, 2007 at 10:45:32AM -0700, Daniel Robinson wrote: > The fact that you are subscribed to 20 different mailing lists and you would > find it difficult to read all of that information on 20 different forum's > is your issue, and it is not the responsibility of this community to > address. Probably it is. There are many people *in this community* in the same boat, and in general, those people will be the most knowledgeable and the most valuable sources of information, since they will tend to be more technically oriented, and be the most experienced internet users, and will be plugged in to more numerous sources of information (since email is indeed more efficient for being connected to many different information sources). > To state, axiomatically, that mailing lists are more efficient is to > attempt proof by assertion. Not trying to "prove" something -- trying to give benefit of long experience in similar situations. Email is substantially more efficient, because it is intrinsically more powerful. For example: 1) Essentially any functionality a forum can support can be supported by good email clients -- threading, sorting (or categorization), searching, restricted visibility. Converse isn't true (see below). 2) Forums cannot be viewed when you are offline, but email is a store and forward protocol, and works perfectly with only occasional connections to the internet -- you can read your email on a plane; you can't read a forum. 3) A forum, and indeed any web-based application by definition, is fundamentally restricted to the functions that can be provided by a browser. Web-based email suffers the same restrictions, but email clients can make full use of the OS interface. And contrariwise, email also supports pure text-based clients -- try using a text-based browser on typical forum applications for an exercise in frustration. 4) With email, you get to pick what you want to keep and don't want to keep. With a forum you have no control -- garbage stays there unless removed by an admin. 5) Email is accessible to a far larger population. Email supports both web-based and client based interaction. It supports text and graphical UIs. It gives a decent user experience over less bandwidth. It works better with mobile devices (eg blackberry). 6) Email has far better support for exchanging documents, media, and other kinds of information. (Web interfaces have good support for *display*, but lousy support for *sending*.) 7) When you get really good at using a particular email client, that real "down to the fingers" expertise generalizes to every email list. Forums use different interfaces. Well, then, why not have forums for people who want them, and leave email for people who don't want them? The thing is, it doesn't work very well in practice. If experience is any guide, then the technically knowledgable people will use email, and won't waste much time on the forums. But a project at the current stage of the openmoko project will require lots of *technical* help for everyone, so what will happen is that you will have to follow the email lists anyway... I mean -- I could be wrong, but that's the way things seem to go with this kind of project. Kent -- Kent Crispin Technical Systems Manager ICANN ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: An idea for an advertisement
On Sat, Jul 21, 2007 at 11:08:47AM +0200, Martin Straub wrote:
[...]
> Anyway, Openmoko seems to become well-known without further action =-O
> The picture attached is from the weekend journal of a major Austrian
> newspaper ("Kurier").
>
> The text basically says:
>
> "The Openmoko platform is the basic element of a new series of mobile
> phones utilizing open source software.
> Hence you can adapt the software to your needs. The first mobile phone
> of this series is the Neo1973 which can be ordered for EUR 220".
>
> The price given is correct for Europe (w/o shipping).
>
> But I think before advertising there should be a product ready for the
> mass market, which obviously is not the case right now.
> I think we have some months left designing advertising campaigns.
Yes indeed. At this point I'm beginning to seriously worry that there may be
too *much* publicity, not too little. Having our phone die because of a
backlash from unrealistic expectations would be a really bad thing.
There is a *large* population of users who are sick to death of phone company
lock-in bullshit. Our phone doesn't need a lot of advertising to succeed.
It doesn't even need a "killer-app" -- what it really needs, at the
beginning, is well-done basic cell phone functionality. The initial set of
applications should be simple and bullet-proof. Given the open framework,
other things will come in time, but when the first consumer reviews come in,
it will be death if they say "great idea, but I can't make a phone call, and
the directory management was too awkward for me to figure out."
Kent
___
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Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
On Fri, Jul 20, 2007 at 09:06:02AM -0600, Mathew Davis wrote: > On 7/20/07, Adam Krikstone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >IRC and lists are great tools at sending and distributing information > >fast. However, as more users, especially ones with little to no > >experience with linux, begin purchasing neo's these lists will be > >inundated with drivel. There is only ~1000 people on this list and look > >at simple problems with a glitch with gmail. I get 90+ messages about > >"is gmail broken," "gmail isn't working," "I think it is gmail," etc. > >Do you really want to check your inbox and get 5000-1+ messages > >about simple mundane things as the neo's are released to the mass > >market? I suggested a forum to act as a buffer between the public and > >IRC/lists. The IRC/lists can be for developers/advanced users and > >consumers can stay in the forums. > > > I agree. I don't understand why people are so opposed to having a forum. It's because it's yet another place that you have to look. > It doesn't mean that if we had a forum we had to shut down the mailing > list. Then everyone has to look *both* at the forum and at the list, if they want to keep up, or research a particular issue. If things had started out as a forum, then adding a list would be bad, for exactly the same reason. > And no one is suggesting that mailing lists are outdated. I think, > at least for me, adding the strengths of another great tool to the growing > list of already great tools is a good idea, especially once this starts > hitting the market. I think there are some definate strengths that a > mailing list has that a forum could never have. From my experiance I have > found forums to be a great tool for the novice to advanced user. People who > know what they are talking about can help the beginer users and people who > have more dificult questions can turn to the mailing list. And if people on > the dev team want to poke around in the forums the merrier but they don't > have to. I for one think that forums could really enhance the community. At this point it's clearly a developer community, not a consumer community -- there are no consumers using a neo, and there won't be for 6 months to a year, at least. From my perspective, then, the time to start forums would be when there is a significant consumer community. > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Reply-to munging...
On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 11:25:09PM +1200, Robin Paulson wrote: > On 7/17/07, Mikko Rauhala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >ti, 2007-07-17 kello 09:59 +0200, ramsesoriginal kirjoitti: > >> p.s. i hate the way gmail handles this list. couldn't we have the > >> respond-to adress set to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Hate gmail and complain to them all you want, please don't imply the > >list should be broken because of that. > > > >I shan't continue on the subject, but thought it necessary to note the > >opposing opinion's presence in this context. > > it's nothing to do with gmail. the reply-to field has not been set on > the openmoko mail server, so replies to messages default to the > sender. this is fine in most cases, but not on mailing lists Hi Robin Actually, it is perfectly fine on mailing lists, and in fact it's exactly the way it's supposed to be. This is an old debate, and, like Mikko, I don't want to waste list cycles rehashing it, but Chip Rosenthal's early paper (http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html) lays out the issues. There have been some rebuttals over the years, but see http://woozle.org/~neale/papers/reply-to-still-harmful Best Regards Kent Crispin Technical Systems Manager ICANN ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Not "the free phone"
How about "Your Own Phone", or maybe just "Your Phone", meaning that you really own it? Regarding "reply-to" munging -- don't want to revisit this ancient debate, but -- please don't :-) Best Regards Kent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: request for openmoko-devel list
I vote +1 on a openmoko-dev list. -- kent On 24 jan 2007, at 14.42, Corey wrote: I'm more than certain that the OpenMoko crew is extremely busy with many important efforts right now, but it should be a very simple task to open a new mailing list. Doing so - sooner than later - would be hugely beneficial in the immediate sense, as it would diversify the list traffic so that there will be a place for strictly development-oriented communications, and another ( this one ) for blue-sky/general/noisy community-oriented discussion. However, if a new mailing-list is not possible at this time, then patience will be required from those subscribers who may be tired of what they may consider to be too high a signal-to-noise ratio -- remember that this is only a temporary situation, and to please put the appropropriate features of your email client to good use, namely filtering and thread muting. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gaming oportunities
Thanks for getting it to the wiki, I've been trying to finish it for a couple of hours this morning, but there is this work thing that keeps me occupied all the time. =) I'll try to flesh out my idea some more and write a couple of paragraphs on it on the wiki. -- kent On 22 jan 2007, at 09.43, Ortwin Regel wrote: I've reorganized the wiki entry and tried to add everything I could find. Feel free to add more! http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Ideas/Games Ortwin On 1/22/07, tony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Kent Karlsson wrote: > Hey, > > What do you guys think about creating a nice lib which makes it easy for > games to support different multiplayer modes? > > Live connection over Bluetooth and/or GPRS (Perhaps mixed). Play by mail > over email or sms. It would be awesome if we could switch between the > modes as well for games where it makes sense. > > I realize that it won't be hard for any game to add the support, but > keeping friends list and creating everything on a per-game basis is just > plain unnecessary. > > -- kent > Now *that's* an interesting idea: a messaging layer that defaults to bluetooth, but can use either GPRS (for more-or-less real-time games) or SMS (for non-real-time games, like chess). In the instance of chess, it'd be like playing by mail, only faster. You wouldn't rely on GPRS, so your phone isn't tied up. That would limit the number of moves you get for free for some people (my plan doesn't have unlimited SMS, for instance), but it'd still be nice. Also, using SMS, the message has a certain amount of assurance it will arrive. I think this sort of framework would be invaluable, especially if you have, as you mention, a "friends list." Automate the sharing of high scores amount your group, that sort of thing. I like it. I like it a lot. - Tony ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gaming oportunities
Hey, What do you guys think about creating a nice lib which makes it easy for games to support different multiplayer modes? Live connection over Bluetooth and/or GPRS (Perhaps mixed). Play by mail over email or sms. It would be awesome if we could switch between the modes as well for games where it makes sense. I realize that it won't be hard for any game to add the support, but keeping friends list and creating everything on a per-game basis is just plain unnecessary. -- kent On 21 jan 2007, at 20.40, Jeff Andros wrote: tron? like this?(http://codeninja.de/tron/) I'm down. we've got agps, and the data link should be fast enough to relay position data. it's a whole lot more manageable on the bike... could make a case for that environment hardened device. On 1/16/07, el jefe delito <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Some of the easier ideas could be: 1. Tic-Tac-Toe: grid changes colour for the Red player's turn, or Blue player's turn 2. Connect Four: grid also changes colour 3. Checkers 4. Chess 5. Gem Drop (already GPL, some info here http://www.tucows.com/ preview/9259 ) 6. that addictive Photo game where you have to spot the 5 differences in x seconds 7. KMines or something like MS's Minesweeper 8. Tron? :) On 1/16/07, Wil Chung < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, this is my first time posting, I'm just been lurking so far. Looks like everyone, including myself is excited about openmoko. Engin's recent post on controls had me thinking: Why do we have buttons in games? But I think we had buttons to control games because early game makers didn't have direct interactivity with the game elements, and the closest thing they had were the buttons as controls. But now that we're a step closer to direct manipulation of game objects, we want to put buttons on it. I'm not sure this is the right way to go, because it seems like we're trying to retrofit things. I have to admit, tactile feedback is pretty important in how we interact with our devices. However, when it comes to playing games, I see no reason to put direction buttons, shoot and jump button as artifacts on the screen. Why not use the touchscreen as a way to directly manipulate game elements? NintendoDS could be a guide here. Just as a suggestion for first-person shooters, couldn't the tracing of the finger on the screen correspond to where the player character is looking, and a tap to shoot? And the soccer game that you just mentioned, couldn't the dribbler of the ball move to where your finger is, and pass or shoot to where you tap? the main problem with touch screen controls is you cannot give the user "my hands fits on this button" feeling. this feeling makes the players comfortable about controlling the characters, etc. on th screen. as i said before, also virrtual keypads can be used, or just touching can be a great idea for games... we had some experiences with touchscreen gaming, and the users mainly don't like to playimg doom-like games with a touchscreen, they feel more comfortable with arcade style games... gamers mostly used to a controlling device like joypads, mouse, or keyboards nowadays. and as we experienced, gamers like the analog joysticks of gamepads most. because it gives the feeling of really controlling the character on the screen. but with ipod usage, people used to control simple and touch input device... and now they like mainly no button idea. so that this is an advantage for touch screen games. and also people nowadays like playing arcade games on every playform (even the next-gen gaming consoles). maybe another problem is the response time of the touch screens. this could effect the gameplay experience. the main problem can be the usage of the screen. this is what Nokia N-Gage bumps onto wall. they didn't used a psp like widescreenish screen for gaming. and this became a huge limitation for game developers. If there is a vertical usage oportunity in games, then the games can be more attractive for people. i want to tell you about one of my experiences. we've developed two soccer games for mobile phones (a j2me game, not a s60 game). in the first edition we used the screen as n-gage used, people liked the game but in the second edition we usd the screen in vertical position. then the number pad became like a joypad for right hand. and the area of usage became incredibly beatiful. it triple the first edition downloads and people returned incredibly beatiful comments to us. because there was no (maybe 1-2 more) games that uses the screen of mobile phones vertical. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- be seeing you. ___
Re: OpenMoko devices and Mac OS X
On 20 jan 2007, at 14.14, Renaissance Man wrote: On 20 Jan 2007, at 9:55 pm, Kent Karlsson wrote: Awesome to see so much people ready to jump on the job to get it working with Mac. That was supposed to be my first thing to make sure as well but it seems like I'm not really alone. Looking forward to this so much. =) Same. Except I hope it eventually has the "just works" factor (i.e you can just load the software and it just works, without needing to be a hacker to get it to work correctly, etc) like iSync does for me now. I reckon a lot of Mac-users like me will go for OpenMoko instead of iPhone if OpenMoko can be demonstrated to do that. Which pretty much means that when the developer release hits the streets we happy hackers will make sure it works for us and when it is polished a bit, perhaps around public release even, it will be available as a download on our favourite site. I don't mind being the one who makes sure it just works for normal users and I bet I'm not alone in the sentiment. -- kent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko devices and Mac OS X
On 20 jan 2007, at 10.50, Ted Lemon wrote: On Jan 20, 2007, at 5:04 AM, Koen Kooi wrote: With iTunes you can sync thumbnails to your ipod, so I suspect mister I-don't-have-a-real-name wants vga thumbnails synced to his phone. Hee hee. He's not the only one. Rest assured, if this isn't in the base product (and why would it be?) someone (if necessary me) will hack it together in short order! It's one of the things that plagues me about new cool phones - how do I sync it to my Mac? This time we can *do* something about it! :') And yes, dotmac's email does use IMAP, so if the phone can do IMAP, Bob's your uncle. Awesome to see so much people ready to jump on the job to get it working with Mac. That was supposed to be my first thing to make sure as well but it seems like I'm not really alone. Looking forward to this so much. =) -- kent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
