Re: Product naming / wiki page naming / restructuring
On 7/27/07, Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There might come Neo1974 or even Neo2007 Yes. And actually, nijutsu will also tell us about the Neo1907 at some point :) FIC vacuum cleaner? Camera? What about the Neo968? Neo1979? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Product naming / wiki page naming / restructuring
On Friday 27 July 2007 13:25:26 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: OpenMoko-0.5 or whatever scheme is already in place. -2007 and -2008 so far. We might have 200x.y at some point. Hm. I think using year-names is not a good choice for software versions (mainly talking about stable releases). It psychologically forces you to do one major release every year. But if you do it twice a year you run into troubles. I don't think Ubuntu did very badly with (Y)Y.MM release naming. Except for the Dapper slippage maybe, but that was warranted by any means... Plus you can use future dates for unstable (right now the next Ubuntu release is 7.10 pgpPhEgMGS19X.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Product naming / wiki page naming / restructuring
Gabriel Ambuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : I don't think Ubuntu did very badly with (Y)Y.MM release naming. Except for the Dapper slippage maybe, but that was warranted by any means... Plus you can use future dates for unstable (right now the next Ubuntu release is 7.10 I guess one thing to consider is OpenMoko is seperate to the hardware. OpenMoko is a phone OS core. Each vendor/project wishing to use it will select a version of OpenMoko and then add their own platform specific code where needed (boot code, hardware drivers, configuration). Therefore an OpenMoko solution will have two software versions, core and platform. So the Neo1973 information screen might show something like: OpenMoko core 1.0 Neo platform 1.1 Boot loader 1.3 Hardware revision 2 etc... --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Product naming / wiki page naming / restructuring
Harald Welte skrev: Hi! Since we're now working on the phase 2 neo, i.e. what is now known officially as Neo1973 GTA02, I'd like to address one issue: For many information in the public wiki, it is not clear whether it is 1) general information about the openmoko 2007 software 1b) information about future software plans, unrelated to old software. So old software should be tagged as 'OpenMoko 2007 Software' or similar. 2) general information common to the Neo1973 phones 3) information specific to Neo1973 GTA01 4) information specific to Neo1973 GTA02 The main two pieces need sooner or later be more distinctly separated. A) OpenMoko the distribution. Your 1) and 1b) go there. Together with sours code, bugtracker, general info of what chipset and standards that is needed/supported. B) Products/targets using OpenMoko. B1) Produkts officaly supporting the use of OpenMoko. Neo1973 will so far be alone here, and 2), 3) and 4) shuld end up here. together with (links to) the neo1973-qemu, binarys for the neo, repro targeting the neo etc. B2) Produkts with hackers port of OpenMoko... At least a list with links. The right name for B) is hard... but if it's target, then anything Neo1973 related should go to: /Target/Neo1973/ And everything outside /Target/ is general OpenMoko stuff. /LaH ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Product naming / wiki page naming / restructuring
Le vendredi 27 juillet 2007 à 18:24 +0800, Harald Welte a écrit : So, we will have Neo1973-1.0 = GTA01 Neo1973-2.0 = GTA02 well, please don't add numbers like 1.0/2.0, since that would just lead to further confusion. I really think it makes sense to use one naming scheme, and don't differentiate between 'inside the company' and 'outsid the company' Strongly agree, but in the other hand, hardware naming should be simple enough to let people understand what devices they got. Let see other mobile product, they have brand, model and version (numbers). GTA01 is quite hard to remember, but could do the trick. For example, Palm got different hardware base (Zire, Tungsten, ...) and numbers (Zire 31/71/22, Tungsten T3/E3, ...). So hardware base models and revisions should have clear and simple naming scheme that let user know what devices they buy (and what they got inside). OpenMoko-0.5 or whatever scheme is already in place. -2007 and -2008 so far. We might have 200x.y at some point. If you take a look on PalmOS, I always hated that I cannot install my PalmOS version X.Y to my device, because it's only for new hardware. AFAIK, there will be only one software name for all (future) Neo devices, so how to name it and understand that you need *minimum* version 2008.0 to use with your device (for example) ? And the opposite, could you upgrade your Neo1973 GTA01v4 with the OpenMoko-2009.2 ? Each phase can also get a consumer-friendly nickname. Well, there only is one phase in which consumers get involved: phase 2. What does it mean about revision and software naming ? Did you plan to have developer and user naming scheme ? This can be harder to implement, but probably easier to follow from a normal user (read non developer). As you said before, have a clear naming convention will help to organize stuff like documentation, wiki, filesnames and so on. Best regards -- Alexandre ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Product naming / wiki page naming / restructuring
Am 26.07.2007 um 17:53 schrieb Harald Welte: Hi! Since we're now working on the phase 2 neo, i.e. what is now known officially as Neo1973 GTA02, I'd like to address one issue: For many information in the public wiki, it is not clear whether it is 1) general information about the openmoko 2007 software 1b) information about future software plans, unrelated to old software. So old software should be tagged as 'OpenMoko 2007 Software' or similar. 2) general information common to the Neo1973 phones 3) information specific to Neo1973 GTA01 4) information specific to Neo1973 GTA02 Well, I think we will have to separate a) different hardware variants (and subvariants) of the Neo b) different software variants (and subvariants) of OpenMoko There is good practice to use the dot notation. So, we will have Neo1973-1.0 = GTA01 Neo1973-2.0 = GTA02 There might come Neo1974 or even Neo2007 and OpenMoko-0.5 or whatever scheme is already in place. If someone wants to refer to a class of versions/releases, just remove the rightmost parts: Neo - meaning any hardware Neo1973 - meaning any release Neo1973-1 - meaning any version of GTA01 (if there are sub-versions) OpenMoko - meaning any software release OpenMoko-0 - meaning any developer releases OpenMoko-1 - meaning the first official release This ends up in a matrix of devicessoftware versions, e.g. (I have not completed the list - that is your task) Phase 0 = Neo1973-1.0 + OpenMoko-0.1 Phase 1 = Neo1973-1.1 + OpenMoko-0.3 Phase 2 = Neo1973-2.0 + OpenMoko-1.0 ... Phase 117 = Neo2007-2.7 + OpenMoko-4.3 Each phase can also get a consumer-friendly nickname. This scheme can IMHO also be used to organize Wiki Pages and Subpages (links). Aliases can be used to map/link the existing page names to a new scheme. Nikolaus ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Product naming / wiki page naming / restructuring
Hi Nikolaus, thanks for your feedback. On Fri, Jul 27, 2007 at 12:02:26PM +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Well, I think we will have to separate a) different hardware variants (and subvariants) of the Neo yes. b) different software variants (and subvariants) of OpenMoko yes. There is good practice to use the dot notation. unfortunately that is not how we call our revisions so far :) So, we will have Neo1973-1.0 = GTA01 Neo1973-2.0 = GTA02 well, please don't add numbers like 1.0/2.0, since that would just lead to further confusion. I really think it makes sense to use one naming scheme, and don't differentiate between 'inside the company' and 'outsid the company' There might come Neo1974 or even Neo2007 Yes. And actually, nijutsu will also tell us about the Neo1907 at some point :) and OpenMoko-0.5 or whatever scheme is already in place. -2007 and -2008 so far. We might have 200x.y at some point. If someone wants to refer to a class of versions/releases, just remove the rightmost parts: Neo - meaning any hardware true. Neo1973 - meaning any release true. Neo1973-1 - meaning any version of GTA01 (if there are sub-versions) just call it 'Neo1973 GTA01' or even more specific 'Neo1973 GTA01Bv4' OpenMoko - meaning any software release OpenMoko-0 - meaning any developer releases OpenMoko-1 - meaning the first official release yes, though the numbers are currently 2007/2008 This ends up in a matrix of devicessoftware versions, e.g. (I have not completed the list - that is your task) Phase 0 = Neo1973-1.0 + OpenMoko-0.1 Phase 1 = Neo1973-1.1 + OpenMoko-0.3 Phase 2 = Neo1973-2.0 + OpenMoko-1.0 ... Phase 117 = Neo2007-2.7 + OpenMoko-4.3 No, _every_ product will have it's own phase 0/1/2. It's just that GTA01 was so delayed, that we overlapped GTA01 and GTA02 phases, i.e. we will have phase 0 and 1 with GTA01, and phase 1 and 2 with GTA02. So for the next $product, we will again start with phase 0, then 1, then 2. The time scale between the phases will hopefully be massively accelerated. Each phase can also get a consumer-friendly nickname. Well, there only is one phase in which consumers get involved: phase 2. -- - Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Product naming / wiki page naming / restructuring
OpenMoko-0.5 or whatever scheme is already in place. -2007 and -2008 so far. We might have 200x.y at some point. Hm. I think using year-names is not a good choice for software versions (mainly talking about stable releases). It psychologically forces you to do one major release every year. But if you do it twice a year you run into troubles. MS used Windows 95, NT, 2000, XP, Vista and Service Packs, etc. Apple uses 10.3 (Panther), 10.4 (Tiger), 10.5 (Leopard) and fractional numbers etc. What I really found confusing is Maemo and the Nokia tablets. I know that I have a N770 but I would have to spend too much time to find what is the latest release that runs on my device. So it is now used as a paperweight :-( If you take a look on PalmOS, I always hated that I cannot install my PalmOS version X.Y to my device, because it's only for new hardware. Yes, like Maemo 3.0 that is to my knowledge not available for the Nokia 770 (and if I do not spend the time to find out, how should a consumer do?). AFAIK, there will be only one software name for all (future) Neo devices, so how to name it and understand that you need *minimum* version 2008.0 to use with your device (for example) ? And the opposite, could you upgrade your Neo1973 GTA01v4 with the OpenMoko-2009.2 ? Yes, that is IMHO a very important requirement: *every* new stable release should run on *all* older hardware (at least up to 3 or 4 years!). But it *may* have limitations in supporting new features and provide some fall-back. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Product naming / wiki page naming / restructuring
On Fri, Jul 27, 2007 at 01:25:26PM +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: OpenMoko-0.5 or whatever scheme is already in place. -2007 and -2008 so far. We might have 200x.y at some point. Hm. I think using year-names is not a good choice for software versions (mainly talking about stable releases). I agree. wasn't my idea. In any case, it is what is in place now. It psychologically forces you to do one major release every year. that's not true. *every* new stable release should run on *all* older hardware (at least up to 3 or 4 years!). this is an entirely different discussion and I would rather not want to mix that with the naming/versioning scheme debate. -- - Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Product naming / wiki page naming / restructuring
Hi! Since we're now working on the phase 2 neo, i.e. what is now known officially as Neo1973 GTA02, I'd like to address one issue: For many information in the public wiki, it is not clear whether it is 1) general information about the openmoko 2007 software 1b) information about future software plans, unrelated to old software. So old software should be tagged as 'OpenMoko 2007 Software' or similar. 2) general information common to the Neo1973 phones 3) information specific to Neo1973 GTA01 4) information specific to Neo1973 GTA02 I don't want to say I have a concise plan on how to structure the information. I'm just saying that we somehow need to point this out. For many pages this would actually affect the page naming. But to the biggest part, I think there should be some kind of categorization effort. I know there currently are the 'neo1973 phase 1 related' and 'neo1973 phase 2' related categories. They somewhat don't match reality, since we will very likely have a 'Neo1973 GTA01 phase 1' and a 'Neo1973 GTA02 phase 1', before we will at some point have a 'Neo1973 GAT02 phase 2'. Also, everyone internal in the project just uses hardware revisions rather than phases. Phases are particular points in time where we address a particular crowd. They might match 1:1 to certain hardware revisions, but that is mere coincidence rather than a given fact. I know Sean's announcements could have been interpreted differently, sorry for that :( So what I would want to propose is a) the wiki.openmoko.org community works out some guidelines/policies considering the facts that I've pointed out above. I'll participate in this discussion (as long as I'm kept in Cc, I really don't have the time to read all of community@) and provide feedback from my point of view b) once we have agreed on some kind of policy, we can all start to update the current pages. Thanks for your cooperation / assistance / support! -- - Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
