Re: about the cases
David Poynter wrote (ao): What about the 3D printers nowadays? Don't know about cost, etc. for production, but for prototyping it might work out. --- http://lists.goldelico.com/pipermail/gta04-owner/2011-October/000408.html We have tested them but unfortunately, quality is *not* sufficient for a complete mobile phone case that can replace the Freerunner case. Nikolaus --- Sander -- Humilis IT Services and Solutions http://www.humilis.net ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: about the cases
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller писал 13.12.2011 09:42: I meant the standart (default freerunner GTA02) covers.. Look, they're pretty thick There are 2 covers for gta02 made of plastic and are too thick (~ 2.5 mm). Do you have some photos to share? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: about the cases
Dnia 2011-12-11, nie o godzinie 23:36 +0100, Fernando Martins pisze: Hi, Out of curiosity would it be possible to recover the original moulds used to produce the cases? Anybody knows what happened to them? Good question, however moulds are designed to produce certain amount of cases. Looking at how much was made, moulds can be at end of their lives. -- Patryk LeadMan Benderz Linux Registered User #377521 () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: about the cases
Am 12.12.2011 um 09:51 schrieb Patryk Benderz: Dnia 2011-12-11, nie o godzinie 23:36 +0100, Fernando Martins pisze: Hi, Out of curiosity would it be possible to recover the original moulds used to produce the cases? Anybody knows what happened to them? Good question, however moulds are designed to produce certain amount of cases. Looking at how much was made, moulds can be at end of their lives. AFAIK they have been made in 2006 or 2007 for the Neo1973 (and have been slightly modified for the GTA02). So I think they have been made within FIC and since FIC was finally the manufacturing subcontractor of Openmoko, Inc. I think they could be somewhere within FIC. Or have been scrapped there after some years of not being used. Anyways, they aren't of big help since the components inserted into the case (earpiece, vibracall motor, speaker) are no longer produced or available. So we have to go the painful way of designing our own cases. But the good side is that we can improve on the outer shape and lookfeel. Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: about the cases
On 12/12/2011 10:04 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: So we have to go the painful way of designing our own cases. But the good side is that we can improve on the outer shape and lookfeel. Yes, I think that makes sense, but the cost of the moulds seems to be a major roadblock in the road of reasonably priced devices when done in small numbers. I was asking because my brother lives in a region in Portugal known for manufacturers of moulds, China being one of typical destinations. I asked him what he knew about this business and the main issue seems indeed to be very high cost of the moulds whereas the plastic products cost merely cents. Unfortunately, as mentioned by Patryck in the other reply, moulds also need to be rectified after some time, and even this cost can be too high. And, it seems that to make a single mould, it can in fact require more than one iteration. I was a bit surprised about this last one as I thought NPC tools could make the mould exactly according to spec but he did not know what were the issues. My brother did not know specific costs but he heard on past informal conversations of costs on the orders of many thousands of Euros. Did you get to any figures yourself? Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: about the cases
On Monday 12 December 2011 10:04:31 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Anyways, they aren't of big help since the components inserted into the case (earpiece, vibracall motor, speaker) are no longer produced or available. Would it be possible to find replacements and solder them on the PCB? E.g. placing the earpiece in new case could be mechanically very tricky. If it was soldered it could be much easier. Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: about the cases
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 10:04:31 +0100 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: Anyways, they aren't of big help since the components inserted into the case (earpiece, vibracall motor, speaker) are no longer produced or available. So we have to go the painful way of designing our own cases. But the good side is that we can improve on the outer shape and lookfeel. That's too bad, but the outer shape was awesome (except for the excessively huge bevel, there should be some, but not so much). The Freerunner has an awesome format to be held horizontally on your hands, with the pointer finger around the curve (a natural fit) and the thumbs to press on the surface. Too bad it's not good enough hardware to take that advantage in hands, but it's an awesome shape that Apple won't sue you for :) Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: about the cases
Am 12.12.2011 um 11:12 schrieb Radek Polak: On Monday 12 December 2011 10:04:31 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Anyways, they aren't of big help since the components inserted into the case (earpiece, vibracall motor, speaker) are no longer produced or available. Would it be possible to find replacements and solder them on the PCB? E.g. placing the earpiece in new case could be mechanically very tricky. If it was soldered it could be much easier. Yes, this should not be difficult. E.g. (not checked for the specs): http://www.knowles.com/search/subcat23.htm?x_sub_cat_id=23 http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Knowles-Acoustics/CM-28421-000/?qs=iTHNLyg2fuW36uXum0RCcA%3d%3d Knowles did buy the speaker division of NXP which originally was the speaker division of Philips (and the original GTA part is a Philips). I would try to wire these components up with two small flexible wires. Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: about the cases
On Monday 12 December 2011 12:10:00 openm...@pulster.de wrote: Last but not least my respect and thanks to Radek - he is kind of alien for me. So many releases, ideas and effords for Openmoko, incredible. So Radek, do you need sleep like any human being ? I think you are overestimating it. I am just often writing big changelogs ;-) Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: about the cases
Am 12.12.2011 um 11:05 schrieb Fernando Martins: On 12/12/2011 10:04 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: So we have to go the painful way of designing our own cases. But the good side is that we can improve on the outer shape and lookfeel. Yes, I think that makes sense, but the cost of the moulds seems to be a major roadblock in the road of reasonably priced devices when done in small numbers. I was asking because my brother lives in a region in Portugal known for manufacturers of moulds, China being one of typical destinations. I asked him what he knew about this business and the main issue seems indeed to be very high cost of the moulds whereas the plastic products cost merely cents. Unfortunately, as mentioned by Patryck in the other reply, moulds also need to be rectified after some time, and even this cost can be too high. And, it seems that to make a single mould, it can in fact require more than one iteration. I was a bit surprised about this last one as I thought NPC tools could make the mould exactly according to spec but he did not know what were the issues. My brother did not know specific costs but he heard on past informal conversations of costs on the orders of many thousands of Euros. Did you get to any figures yourself? Yes - 2 - 5 EUR range. Or even more depending on surface quality and number of details. The main reason appears to be that the mould is a single unit production itself. I.e. all development cost is included in the price. And it is a mechanical masterpiece to get the plastics cool fast enough but not too fast and have the plasic parts finally fall out. I am in favour of Radek's wooden experiments. Anyone done 3D cutting with wood? Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: about the cases
On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 6:39 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: Am 12.12.2011 um 11:05 schrieb Fernando Martins: Did you get to any figures yourself? Yes - 2 - 5 EUR range. Or even more depending on surface quality and number of details. The main reason appears to be that the mould is a single unit production itself. I.e. all development cost is included in the price. And it is a mechanical masterpiece to get the plastics cool fast enough but not too fast and have the plasic parts finally fall out. I am in favour of Radek's wooden experiments. Anyone done 3D cutting with wood? Did you talk to Evil Dragon how they got the case for Open Pandora designed. I think their first run is only 4000 units. Rakshat ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- -- Please use Firefox as your web browser. Its protects you from spyware and is also a very feature rich browser. www.firefox.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: about the cases
Am 12.12.2011 um 14:17 schrieb rakshat hooja: On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 6:39 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: Am 12.12.2011 um 11:05 schrieb Fernando Martins: Did you get to any figures yourself? Yes - 2 - 5 EUR range. Or even more depending on surface quality and number of details. The main reason appears to be that the mould is a single unit production itself. I.e. all development cost is included in the price. And it is a mechanical masterpiece to get the plastics cool fast enough but not too fast and have the plasic parts finally fall out. I am in favour of Radek's wooden experiments. Anyone done 3D cutting with wood? Did you talk to Evil Dragon how they got the case for Open Pandora designed. I think their first run is only 4000 units. Yes. It did cost them a lot of money and made grey hair... IMHO, they did take a lot of risk deciding to produce 4000 units without knowing if there is enough demand. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re: about the cases
On Dec 12, 2011 13:09 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: I am in favour of Radek's wooden experiments. Anyone done 3D cutting with wood? Indeed it looks more and more like a good option, even exciting when one thinks of artistic potential (e.g., varnish, engraving and even marquetry as an extreme moding option). I could even see a fashion trend starting with OpenMoko :) Actually I did some simple works with a wood router but all I need were straight lines with different cutting patterns. I didn't use a guide template which probably would be needed in this case. Personally, I would still prefer to pay some artisan to do it for me, cost dependent. Two questions that occur to me: Which types of wood would be more suitable? Light but resistant to impact. How much time would be needed to do a case, from cutting, maybe gluing, polishing, varnishing as a routine task? Or, what would be the cost then? Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: about the cases
On Monday 12 December 2011 14:09:56 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: I am in favour of Radek's wooden experiments. Anyone done 3D cutting with wood? I have made wooden milling machine with 2 stepper motors which will be controlled from arduino/GTA04. But i have to wait until i find arduino and milling cutter under Christmas tree ;-) I wonder if Rene has some results - his tools looked much more advanced then mine. Btw my friend was laughing at the idea of wooden case, but when he saw it in real he quickly changed mind. Touching wood is very pleasant compared to plastic/alu. I hope i will have some results in a few weeks - my Freerunner definitely deserves new case :) Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: about the cases
Hi, list. There are 2 covers for gta02 made of plastic and are too thick (~ 2.5 mm). If it were possible to make them out of aluminum (0.5-1mm), we would have a slim and elegant case for our phone.. No other changes needed.. Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller писал 12.12.2011 12:04: Am 12.12.2011 um 09:51 schrieb Patryk Benderz: Dnia 2011-12-11, nie o godzinie 23:36 +0100, Fernando Martins pisze: Hi, Out of curiosity would it be possible to recover the original moulds used to produce the cases? Anybody knows what happened to them? Good question, however moulds are designed to produce certain amount of cases. Looking at how much was made, moulds can be at end of their lives. AFAIK they have been made in 2006 or 2007 for the Neo1973 (and have been slightly modified for the GTA02). So I think they have been made within FIC and since FIC was finally the manufacturing subcontractor of Openmoko, Inc. I think they could be somewhere within FIC. Or have been scrapped there after some years of not being used. Anyways, they aren't of big help since the components inserted into the case (earpiece, vibracall motor, speaker) are no longer produced or available. So we have to go the painful way of designing our own cases. But the good side is that we can improve on the outer shape and lookfeel. Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: about the cases
Am 13.12.2011 um 05:50 schrieb Yury Sakarinen: Hi, list. There are 2 covers for gta02 made of plastic and are too thick (~ 2.5 mm). Do you have some photos to share? If it were possible to make them out of aluminum (0.5-1mm), we would have a slim and elegant case for our phone.. No other changes needed.. Aluminium could also be a nice material, although 0.5-1mm is quite weak, IMHO. Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller писал 12.12.2011 12:04: Am 12.12.2011 um 09:51 schrieb Patryk Benderz: Dnia 2011-12-11, nie o godzinie 23:36 +0100, Fernando Martins pisze: Hi, Out of curiosity would it be possible to recover the original moulds used to produce the cases? Anybody knows what happened to them? Good question, however moulds are designed to produce certain amount of cases. Looking at how much was made, moulds can be at end of their lives. AFAIK they have been made in 2006 or 2007 for the Neo1973 (and have been slightly modified for the GTA02). So I think they have been made within FIC and since FIC was finally the manufacturing subcontractor of Openmoko, Inc. I think they could be somewhere within FIC. Or have been scrapped there after some years of not being used. Anyways, they aren't of big help since the components inserted into the case (earpiece, vibracall motor, speaker) are no longer produced or available. So we have to go the painful way of designing our own cases. But the good side is that we can improve on the outer shape and lookfeel. Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: about the cases
On 12/12/2011 04:05 AM, Fernando Martins wrote: On 12/12/2011 10:04 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: So we have to go the painful way of designing our own cases. But the good side is that we can improve on the outer shape and lookfeel. Yes, I think that makes sense, but the cost of the moulds seems to be a major roadblock in the road of reasonably priced devices when done in small numbers. I was asking because my brother lives in a region in Portugal known for manufacturers of moulds, China being one of typical destinations. I asked him what he knew about this business and the main issue seems indeed to be very high cost of the moulds whereas the plastic products cost merely cents. Unfortunately, as mentioned by Patryck in the other reply, moulds also need to be rectified after some time, and even this cost can be too high. And, it seems that to make a single mould, it can in fact require more than one iteration. I was a bit surprised about this last one as I thought NPC tools could make the mould exactly according to spec but he did not know what were the issues. My brother did not know specific costs but he heard on past informal conversations of costs on the orders of many thousands of Euros. Did you get to any figures yourself? Regards, Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community What about the 3D printers nowadays? Don't know about cost, etc. for production, but for prototyping it might work out. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
