RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases
Debug boards AFAIK are being built and will be ready at launch. No debug 10 pack. there marketing said NO. ha! There may be an advantage to order a 10 pack + plus debug. it will proably depend on your region. YMMV. -Original Message- From: Paul Jimenez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 9:25 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases steve wrote: Mass Pro is slated to start between may9 and may 16. Steve's rule say add a week. Then you got test, then you shipping. On Monday ( or maybe Sunday night for my EU friends ) I will do an update. Could you also include status of debug boards? Will they go on sale at the same time as the phones? Will there be debug-board 10-packs? (I don't expect so, but it's possible!) If I'm getting a phone via a group order, is there any advantage to getting a debug board via the same order, or should I just order it on my own? Answers can wait until your update, bu I wanted to get the questions out there. Thanks again for keeping us so well informed! --pj ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
For the customer/community member paypal should not be a risk. For OM it
is in fact a risk cause of possible misuse of the customer protection.
In a german journal (i think the best it journal) there was a big
article about the potential misuse of the customer protection. I would
use palpal, althougth I don't really like paypal, cause I don't have any
credit card.
I think the OM team should keep this in mind.
Greetings Bastian
steve schrieb:
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|
| I’m not sure about the paypal. A long while back when I suggested
paypal there was a backlash from
|
| concerned people who thought that paypal was evil because it was
American. I’ll check on that.
|
| ( not the evil part, the paypal part)
|
|
|
| WRT to one shipment, if you order a 10 pack and debug board I would
be surprised it was split into two
|
| shipments.
|
|
|
|
|
| -
|
| *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Shawn
| *Sent:* Friday, May 09, 2008 6:24 AM
| *To:* List for Openmoko community discussion
| *Subject:* Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
|
|
|
| Hi steve,
|
| thanks for the updates. I have a few additional questions on group
purchase:
|
| Can we pay the group payment via paypal?
| If a member of our group wants to purchase the debug board, can we
order that at the same time (and have it shipped together), or should he
order that on his own?
|
| Thanks!
| . . .shawn
|
| - Original Message
| From: steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| To: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org
| Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2008 9:20:38 PM
| Subject: RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases
|
| The 10 pack will have to be ordered by one person. It will ship to that
| persons location.
|
| Now, how will people arrange to do this? I thought long and hard about
this.
| And then I realized that some people will find one way, one guy pays and
| others promise to pay him. Some people will find another way, half up
front
| and half on delivery. Some people will do contracts. Some people will just
| choose to do a single phone.
|
|
|
| -Original Message-
| From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Robin Paulson
| Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 6:50 PM
| To: List for Openmoko community discussion
| Subject: questions for steve regarding group purchases
|
| steve, what methods are being considered by openmoko for group purchasing?
|
| most of us do now know the other members of a group and would like
| some security that the group organised is not able to run off with the
| money - are openmoko willing to engage in purchases via escrow agents?
| or is it a case of 'sort it our amongst yourselves, all we want is a c
| card number or paypal account'? if the latter is the case, is there
| anything/anyone openmoko or anyone else here can recommend for making
| sure things go smoothly?
|
| thanks
|
| ___
| Openmoko community mailing list
| community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org
| http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
|
|
| ___
| Openmoko community mailing list
| community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org
| http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
|
|
|
| -
|
| Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try
it now.
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20
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|
| -
|
| ___
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| community@lists.openmoko.org
| http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
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RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases
I'm not sure about the paypal. A long while back when I suggested paypal there was a backlash from concerned people who thought that paypal was evil because it was American. I'll check on that. ( not the evil part, the paypal part) WRT to one shipment, if you order a 10 pack and debug board I would be surprised it was split into two shipments. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shawn Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 6:24 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases Hi steve, thanks for the updates. I have a few additional questions on group purchase: Can we pay the group payment via paypal? If a member of our group wants to purchase the debug board, can we order that at the same time (and have it shipped together), or should he order that on his own? Thanks! . . .shawn - Original Message From: steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2008 9:20:38 PM Subject: RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases The 10 pack will have to be ordered by one person. It will ship to that persons location. Now, how will people arrange to do this? I thought long and hard about this. And then I realized that some people will find one way, one guy pays and others promise to pay him. Some people will find another way, half up front and half on delivery. Some people will do contracts. Some people will just choose to do a single phone. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robin Paulson Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 6:50 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: questions for steve regarding group purchases steve, what methods are being considered by openmoko for group purchasing? most of us do now know the other members of a group and would like some security that the group organised is not able to run off with the money - are openmoko willing to engage in purchases via escrow agents? or is it a case of 'sort it our amongst yourselves, all we want is a c card number or paypal account'? if the latter is the case, is there anything/anyone openmoko or anyone else here can recommend for making sure things go smoothly? thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community _ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8H DtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20 it now. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
Well How are we going to pay anyway? Talking about single and group. steve skrev: I'm not sure about the paypal. A long while back when I suggested paypal there was a backlash from concerned people who thought that paypal was evil because it was American. I'll check on that. ( not the evil part, the paypal part) WRT to one shipment, if you order a 10 pack and debug board I would be surprised it was split into two shipments. *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Shawn *Sent:* Friday, May 09, 2008 6:24 AM *To:* List for Openmoko community discussion *Subject:* Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases Hi steve, thanks for the updates. I have a few additional questions on group purchase: Can we pay the group payment via paypal? If a member of our group wants to purchase the debug board, can we order that at the same time (and have it shipped together), or should he order that on his own? Thanks! . . .shawn - Original Message From: steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2008 9:20:38 PM Subject: RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases The 10 pack will have to be ordered by one person. It will ship to that persons location. Now, how will people arrange to do this? I thought long and hard about this. And then I realized that some people will find one way, one guy pays and others promise to pay him. Some people will find another way, half up front and half on delivery. Some people will do contracts. Some people will just choose to do a single phone. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Robin Paulson Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 6:50 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: questions for steve regarding group purchases steve, what methods are being considered by openmoko for group purchasing? most of us do now know the other members of a group and would like some security that the group organised is not able to run off with the money - are openmoko willing to engage in purchases via escrow agents? or is it a case of 'sort it our amongst yourselves, all we want is a c card number or paypal account'? if the latter is the case, is there anything/anyone openmoko or anyone else here can recommend for making sure things go smoothly? thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
This is for the Colorado group purchase (10 pack plus 1 debug board). Our Utah friend is paying via PayPal and we figured if we could make the lump payment that way, we would. If not, I just need to know so we can get all the money into one place (: Thanks, Shawn S - Original Message From: Alexander Frøyseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 5:37:57 PM Subject: Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases Well How are we going to pay anyway? Talking about single and group. steve skrev: I’m not sure about the paypal. A long while back when I suggested paypal there was a backlash from concerned people who thought that paypal was evil because it was American. I’ll check on that. ( not the evil part, the paypal part) WRT to one shipment, if you order a 10 pack and debug board I would be surprised it was split into two shipments. From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shawn Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 6:24 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases Hi steve, thanks for the updates. I have a few additional questions on group purchase: Can we pay the group payment via paypal? If a member of our group wants to purchase the debug board, can we order that at the same time (and have it shipped together), or should he order that on his own? Thanks! . . .shawn - Original Message From: steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2008 9:20:38 PM Subject: RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases The 10 pack will have to be ordered by one person. It will ship to that persons location. Now, how will people arrange to do this? I thought long and hard about this. And then I realized that some people will find one way, one guy pays and others promise to pay him. Some people will find another way, half up front and half on delivery. Some people will do contracts. Some people will just choose to do a single phone. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robin Paulson Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 6:50 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: questions for steve regarding group purchases steve, what methods are being considered by openmoko for group purchasing? most of us do now know the other members of a group and would like some security that the group organised is not able to run off with the money - are openmoko willing to engage in purchases via escrow agents? or is it a case of 'sort it our amongst yourselves, all we want is a c card number or paypal account'? if the latter is the case, is there anything/anyone openmoko or anyone else here can recommend for making sure things go smoothly? thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
Hi steve, thanks for the updates. I have a few additional questions on group purchase: Can we pay the group payment via paypal? If a member of our group wants to purchase the debug board, can we order that at the same time (and have it shipped together), or should he order that on his own? Thanks! . . .shawn - Original Message From: steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2008 9:20:38 PM Subject: RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases The 10 pack will have to be ordered by one person. It will ship to that persons location. Now, how will people arrange to do this? I thought long and hard about this. And then I realized that some people will find one way, one guy pays and others promise to pay him. Some people will find another way, half up front and half on delivery. Some people will do contracts. Some people will just choose to do a single phone. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robin Paulson Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 6:50 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: questions for steve regarding group purchases steve, what methods are being considered by openmoko for group purchasing? most of us do now know the other members of a group and would like some security that the group organised is not able to run off with the money - are openmoko willing to engage in purchases via escrow agents? or is it a case of 'sort it our amongst yourselves, all we want is a c card number or paypal account'? if the latter is the case, is there anything/anyone openmoko or anyone else here can recommend for making sure things go smoothly? thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
I think it is like 10+1 phone! Shawn wrote: If a member of our group wants to purchase the debug board, can we order that at the same time (and have it shipped together), or should he order that on his own? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
2008/5/8 Mo Abrahams [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Maybe I am just naïve, but in a community like this I doubt that there will be anybody with malicious intent, I would be semi-willing to purchase phones before receiving money for them, and would also trust another purchaser with my money before receiving the phone. When the product becomes more popular, it will be more of an issue, but as it stands the only people who will even know about group purchases really DO want a freerunner. it's not just the trust thing; it's for when things go wrong. there are many possible slip-ups between california and my house, and i would prefer knowing that if the unpredictable happens, we're all covered, and know where we stand. and US$4000 is a lot of money, for people i don't know; i'm just not that trusting. nor do i expect the others in my group to hand over that sort of cash with no cast-iron assurances ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
My Idea was this: Openmoko can manage all the orders and to receive the payments: they can build a sites, that collect the orders, and with an option to indicate to which Sales Group to receive (Update in real time with the number of allocated phones). The person that is available to receive the phones has the work only to receive and to fix a Saturday or a Sunday an appointament to a place. In this way: 1. Is more easy to run with the money, not with 10 openmoko 2. If a person can not to continue to be the hub, before the expedition, Openmoko can simply to change the spedition address 3. The situation will be more trasparent 4. There will not be a problem if a person don't want more a phone. The cost of all this is only a web application and x 10 transaction fees (that on 399 $ I hope are not too much) This is my idea Robin Paulson wrote: steve, what methods are being considered by openmoko for group purchasing? most of us do now know the other members of a group and would like some security that the group organised is not able to run off with the money - are openmoko willing to engage in purchases via escrow agents? or is it a case of 'sort it our amongst yourselves, all we want is a c card number or paypal account'? if the latter is the case, is there anything/anyone openmoko or anyone else here can recommend for making sure things go smoothly? thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
So what you really want is for the OM store to give a 10% discount. On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 3:52 AM, Michele Renda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My Idea was this: Openmoko can manage all the orders and to receive the payments: they can build a sites, that collect the orders, and with an option to indicate to which Sales Group to receive (Update in real time with the number of allocated phones). The person that is available to receive the phones has the work only to receive and to fix a Saturday or a Sunday an appointament to a place. In this way: 1. Is more easy to run with the money, not with 10 openmoko 2. If a person can not to continue to be the hub, before the expedition, Openmoko can simply to change the spedition address 3. The situation will be more trasparent 4. There will not be a problem if a person don't want more a phone. The cost of all this is only a web application and x 10 transaction fees (that on 399 $ I hope are not too much) This is my idea Robin Paulson wrote: steve, what methods are being considered by openmoko for group purchasing? most of us do now know the other members of a group and would like some security that the group organised is not able to run off with the money - are openmoko willing to engage in purchases via escrow agents? or is it a case of 'sort it our amongst yourselves, all we want is a c card number or paypal account'? if the latter is the case, is there anything/anyone openmoko or anyone else here can recommend for making sure things go smoothly? thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- H. Lally Singh Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science Virginia Tech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
On Thu, May 8, 2008 7:17 am, Robin Paulson wrote: it's not just the trust thing; it's for when things go wrong. there are many possible slip-ups between california and my house, and i would prefer knowing that if the unpredictable happens, we're all covered, and know where we stand. and US$4000 is a lot of money, for people i don't know; i'm just not that trusting. nor do i expect the others in my group to hand over that sort of cash with no cast-iron assurances I think that the worry of things going wrong can be reduced if you form a local group (or join an existing LUG) and hand over phones and cash in person. Personally, I would be quite wary about sending full or part payment for a phone to someone I had never met in person, but I would be quite happy to drive for a couple of hours to meet them at their house, give them cash for a phone, and then come back a week later to collect the phone that had been ordered, because I would know that they where a real person, and I would know their street address in case they turned out to be a frudster. If there was an arrangement to pay half before ordering and half on collection and the group organizer wanted to take a copy of my photo ID to protect themselves against me not turning up with the second payment, then that would also be fine. Conversely, if I was a group organizer, I would want everyone in the group to visit me in person at least once to devlever money. If anyone who wanted to conduct the whole transaction via post and email, I would want the whole cost of the phone up front, and I would use a fully insured, signature on delivery courier to deliver the phone, which would cost the buyer more. I realize that meeting up in person would not suit everyone, but I think it is the best solution to resolve trust issues, even if you spend more on fuel driving to the meet than you save on postage. -- David Pottage ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
For openmok there is no difference, except than to pay x9 more payment fee. I think if someone steal some money to some person, the damage of OM image will cost a lot more ! Lally Singh wrote: So what you really want is for the OM store to give a 10% discount. On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 3:52 AM, Michele Renda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My Idea was this: Openmoko can manage all the orders and to receive the payments: they can build a sites, that collect the orders, and with an option to indicate to which Sales Group to receive (Update in real time with the number of allocated phones). The person that is available to receive the phones has the work only to receive and to fix a Saturday or a Sunday an appointament to a place. In this way: 1. Is more easy to run with the money, not with 10 openmoko 2. If a person can not to continue to be the hub, before the expedition, Openmoko can simply to change the spedition address 3. The situation will be more trasparent 4. There will not be a problem if a person don't want more a phone. The cost of all this is only a web application and x 10 transaction fees (that on 399 $ I hope are not too much) This is my idea Robin Paulson wrote: steve, what methods are being considered by openmoko for group purchasing? most of us do now know the other members of a group and would like some security that the group organised is not able to run off with the money - are openmoko willing to engage in purchases via escrow agents? or is it a case of 'sort it our amongst yourselves, all we want is a c card number or paypal account'? if the latter is the case, is there anything/anyone openmoko or anyone else here can recommend for making sure things go smoothly? thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
hi michele Michele Renda wrote: For openmok there is no difference, except than to pay x9 more payment fee. i beg to differ. the whole handling would make the gain of readily packaging 10-packs and ship these en bloc to one dest. vanish. so larry is right. thats like requesting 10% generic discount the whole point of it is: we are no escrow company, we are no bank, we are not paypal. we build the free and open mobile phone. and we want to focus on that. kind regards -- Joachim Steiger Openmoko Central Services ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 5:17 PM, Joachim Steiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi michele Michele Renda wrote: For openmok there is no difference, except than to pay x9 more payment fee. i beg to differ. the whole handling would make the gain of readily packaging 10-packs and ship these en bloc to one dest. vanish. so larry is right. thats like requesting 10% generic discount the whole point of it is: we are no escrow company, we are no bank, we are not paypal. we build the free and open mobile phone. and we want to focus on that. I agree with Joachim. And one tips on how to solve this with payment. The person ordering the 10-pack could make a simple contract for payment delivery of the phone. Then people could pay and as long as they can prove they payed, it would be up to the hub person to prove he sent the phone. The contract must include payment shipping details. I will make a group order and have this kind of contract with some, because I do not have enough cash to order 22 phones ++. I think OM should just provide the 10-pack deal or the single phone deal. If people do not trust each other, then they order a single phone and get no quantum discount. This is not OM's problem. Please let OM do their job with developing the phone. They are not a shippinginsurance company. -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: | On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 5:17 PM, Joachim Steiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | hi michele | | Michele Renda wrote: | For openmok there is no difference, except than to pay x9 more payment fee. | i beg to differ. the whole handling would make the gain of readily | packaging 10-packs and ship these en bloc to one dest. vanish. | so larry is right. thats like requesting 10% generic discount | | the whole point of it is: we are no escrow company, we are no bank, we | are not paypal. | we build the free and open mobile phone. | and we want to focus on that. | | I agree with Joachim. | | And one tips on how to solve this with payment. The person ordering | the 10-pack could | make a simple contract for payment delivery of the phone. Then | people could pay | and as long as they can prove they payed, it would be up to the hub | person to prove | he sent the phone. The contract must include payment shipping details. | | I will make a group order and have this kind of contract with some, | because I do not | have enough cash to order 22 phones ++. | | I think OM should just provide the 10-pack deal or the single phone | deal. If people do | not trust each other, then they order a single phone and get no | quantum discount. | This is not OM's problem. Please let OM do their job with developing | the phone. They | are not a shippinginsurance company. | I think the request was for Openmoko to let 10 people pay separately, but still ship one package out. This solves half the trust issue people may have (namely, the money half) as well as the issue where someone has to have at least $3700 around in order to place the order. My understanding was that there would still be one shipment, and that there would still be trust issues with whomever received the package, but there's still the community building aspect and such. - --Bert -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIIzdxVfxFjPpfJ3oRAr2zAJ95iWnZdy92/6A16sBhjfjL2qEefgCfZ7uE FK4VAQ424+GpE+At4J9NmDE= =OqvQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases
Yea, there's all kinds of ways that people use every day to transact with others who they've no way of meeting or even calling on the phone. If you are concerned, then maybe the price to fix the concern is to just order the phone individually. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Flemming Richter Mikkelsen Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 12:24 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 5:17 PM, Joachim Steiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi michele Michele Renda wrote: For openmok there is no difference, except than to pay x9 more payment fee. i beg to differ. the whole handling would make the gain of readily packaging 10-packs and ship these en bloc to one dest. vanish. so larry is right. thats like requesting 10% generic discount the whole point of it is: we are no escrow company, we are no bank, we are not paypal. we build the free and open mobile phone. and we want to focus on that. I agree with Joachim. And one tips on how to solve this with payment. The person ordering the 10-pack could make a simple contract for payment delivery of the phone. Then people could pay and as long as they can prove they payed, it would be up to the hub person to prove he sent the phone. The contract must include payment shipping details. I will make a group order and have this kind of contract with some, because I do not have enough cash to order 22 phones ++. I think OM should just provide the 10-pack deal or the single phone deal. If people do not trust each other, then they order a single phone and get no quantum discount. This is not OM's problem. Please let OM do their job with developing the phone. They are not a shippinginsurance company. -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Gilbert Hartmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Michele Renda wrote: | For openmok there is no difference, except than to pay x9 more payment fee. | i beg to differ. the whole handling would make the gain of readily | packaging 10-packs and ship these en bloc to one dest. vanish. | so larry is right. thats like requesting 10% generic discount | | the whole point of it is: we are no escrow company, we are no bank, we | are not paypal. | we build the free and open mobile phone. | and we want to focus on that. | | I agree with Joachim. | | And one tips on how to solve this with payment. The person ordering | the 10-pack could | make a simple contract for payment delivery of the phone. Then | people could pay | and as long as they can prove they payed, it would be up to the hub | person to prove | he sent the phone. The contract must include payment shipping details. | | I will make a group order and have this kind of contract with some, | because I do not | have enough cash to order 22 phones ++. | | I think OM should just provide the 10-pack deal or the single phone | deal. If people do | not trust each other, then they order a single phone and get no | quantum discount. | This is not OM's problem. Please let OM do their job with developing | the phone. They | are not a shippinginsurance company. | I think the request was for Openmoko to let 10 people pay separately, but still ship one package out. This solves half the trust issue people may have (namely, the money half) as well as the issue where someone has to have at least $3700 around in order to place the order. My understanding was that there would still be one shipment, and that there would still be trust issues with whomever received the package, but there's still the community building aspect and such. Please do not ask for this. It would give OM so much extra work. The reason for the 10-pack deal is that since it saves OM time and money, we get a discount. If you want OM to handle individual payments for group orders, they would have much work with arranging this (deadline for when all in the group must have payed, group_order_id to identify to which group you pay, etc) I already told you that you can write a CONTRACT between YOU and the HUB person. That will GARANTE you the PHONE OR MONEY BACK! Please, instead of complaining, write this contract and maybe share it with others. OM has already given us a very low price. I do not believe the price on the phone covers all the expenses they have, so do not ask for a general 10% discount. Please order a single phone if you have so much problems with a group order. (I write this because I also want to buy a GTA04. I just want the open phones and I don't understand why people complain about everything all the time) -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: Please do not ask for this. It would give OM so much extra work. The reason for the 10-pack deal is that since it saves OM time and money, we get a discount. If you want OM to handle individual payments for group orders, they would have much work with arranging this (deadline for when all in the group must have payed, group_order_id to identify to which group you pay, etc) I already told you that you can write a CONTRACT between YOU and the HUB person. That will GARANTE you the PHONE OR MONEY BACK! Please, instead of complaining, write this contract and maybe share it with others. OM has already given us a very low price. I do not believe the price on the phone covers all the expenses they have, so do not ask for a general 10% discount. Please order a single phone if you have so much problems with a group order. (I write this because I also want to buy a GTA04. I just want the open phones and I don't understand why people complain about everything all the time) There is no need to use this tone. I already apologize about my idea. It was only an idea. I was not knowing that it was so difficult and so expensive for Openmoko. Also I want a GTA04, and also I want that OM employers are focused only in their work. It was only an idea to improve Freerunner sales, it was not to have my 10% discount. It was more to save some expedition fees, that for me that I live in Europe will be a bit big. So, please learn to understand mail that are a complain from mail that are ideas. It was only an idea. It will avoid a lot of flames, that I think is the last thing we need. Regards Michele Renda ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
There is no need to use this tone. I already apologize about my idea. It was only an idea. I was not knowing that it was so difficult and so expensive for Openmoko. Also I want a GTA04, and also I want that OM employers are focused only in their work. Sorry It was only an idea to improve Freerunner sales, it was not to have my 10% discount. It was more to save some expedition fees, that for me that I live in Europe will be a bit big. I know, I live in Europe too. I really recommend the contract thing. So, please learn to understand mail that are a complain from mail that are ideas. It was only an idea. It will avoid a lot of flames, that I think is the last thing we need. I just wanted to kill this idea right from the start, so we avoid having 273 mails about it. As you say, you only wrote an idea, and I should not attack you. I am sorry for that. I still want to kill your idea (but I think I did). -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: Don't worry! No problem :) I don't know what is happening, but I see in Internet also I a lot of person speaking with no-understandable comparations with other phone, watching more what is missing on this phone, and not what there is already. And in the end they lost what want this phone to be. I hope this phone will become big, and can show to all the potiality of open development. In this moment to me seem to live like in the first years where was born linux: on the begining no one was never thinking that the work of thousand free person can build a project so big and complete. And according me Openmoko is doing in hardware what Linux made in software! And it is great. So, steve... when you will send this phone to us? (If I am the 1.000.000 person that ask this, I win somethig?) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
And according me Openmoko is doing in hardware what Linux made in software! And it is great. Same feeling here!!! - Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! La bandeja de entrada más inteligente. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
| And according me Openmoko is doing in hardware what Linux made in | software! And it is great. Same feeling here!!! OM is doing some very important things. The thing which is most important to me, is if they can make all HW producers write their drivers in GPL and provide all the specification needed for any usage of their HW. I really want a Linux enabled phone powered by FOSS. OM are helping me by providing HW and FOSS SW that works together. It is our job to port OM to other devices (such as Neonode N2) and to write good SW. There is pros and cons by being open and supporting everything and the negative parts are: - codecs must be run in SW because of the lack of HW to handle all open codecs. This could be solved with a FPGA, but that is added cost. I hope we get a FPGA in the future (they can be run time flashed in 1 micro sec for the codec the SW needs and this can be automated). - very limited amounts of chips available with open specs. - etc, etc -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
I think the only caveat to this for the Freerunner is the lack of datasheet from SMedia for the GPU which makes 3D impossible. Rather unfortunate. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware#Graphics.2F3D_Acceleration http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-April/014709.html http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates#SMedia_3362_Documentation_.26_OpenGL_ES_Drivers Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: OM is doing some very important things. The thing which is most important to me, is if they can make all HW producers write their drivers in GPL and provide all the specification needed for any usage of their HW. I really want a Linux enabled phone powered by FOSS. OM are helping me by providing HW and FOSS SW that works together. It is our job to port OM to other devices (such as Neonode N2) and to write good SW. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases
Hey, Some joker just called me at home ( he must of got my number from a press release) and burned up 30 of my cell minutes asking me the same question. Mass Pro is slated to start between may9 and may 16. Steve's rule say add a week. Then you got test, then you shipping. On Monday ( or maybe Sunday night for my EU friends ) I will do an update. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michele Renda Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 2:24 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: Don't worry! No problem :) I don't know what is happening, but I see in Internet also I a lot of person speaking with no-understandable comparations with other phone, watching more what is missing on this phone, and not what there is already. And in the end they lost what want this phone to be. I hope this phone will become big, and can show to all the potiality of open development. In this moment to me seem to live like in the first years where was born linux: on the begining no one was never thinking that the work of thousand free person can build a project so big and complete. And according me Openmoko is doing in hardware what Linux made in software! And it is great. So, steve... when you will send this phone to us? (If I am the 1.000.000 person that ask this, I win somethig?) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases
Bingo! When Sean and I discussed this idea we didn't want to force any kind of arrangement on groups. People are free to join and establish their own terms between each other. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Crane, Matthew Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 10:36 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases Yea, there's all kinds of ways that people use every day to transact with others who they've no way of meeting or even calling on the phone. If you are concerned, then maybe the price to fix the concern is to just order the phone individually. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Flemming Richter Mikkelsen Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 12:24 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 5:17 PM, Joachim Steiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi michele Michele Renda wrote: For openmok there is no difference, except than to pay x9 more payment fee. i beg to differ. the whole handling would make the gain of readily packaging 10-packs and ship these en bloc to one dest. vanish. so larry is right. thats like requesting 10% generic discount the whole point of it is: we are no escrow company, we are no bank, we are not paypal. we build the free and open mobile phone. and we want to focus on that. I agree with Joachim. And one tips on how to solve this with payment. The person ordering the 10-pack could make a simple contract for payment delivery of the phone. Then people could pay and as long as they can prove they payed, it would be up to the hub person to prove he sent the phone. The contract must include payment shipping details. I will make a group order and have this kind of contract with some, because I do not have enough cash to order 22 phones ++. I think OM should just provide the 10-pack deal or the single phone deal. If people do not trust each other, then they order a single phone and get no quantum discount. This is not OM's problem. Please let OM do their job with developing the phone. They are not a shippinginsurance company. -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases
Well put Roh. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joachim Steiger Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 8:18 AM To: Michele Renda Cc: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases hi michele Michele Renda wrote: For openmok there is no difference, except than to pay x9 more payment fee. i beg to differ. the whole handling would make the gain of readily packaging 10-packs and ship these en bloc to one dest. vanish. so larry is right. thats like requesting 10% generic discount the whole point of it is: we are no escrow company, we are no bank, we are not paypal. we build the free and open mobile phone. and we want to focus on that. kind regards -- Joachim Steiger Openmoko Central Services ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases
The 10 pack will have to be ordered by one person. It will ship to that persons location. Now, how will people arrange to do this? I thought long and hard about this. And then I realized that some people will find one way, one guy pays and others promise to pay him. Some people will find another way, half up front and half on delivery. Some people will do contracts. Some people will just choose to do a single phone. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robin Paulson Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 6:50 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: questions for steve regarding group purchases steve, what methods are being considered by openmoko for group purchasing? most of us do now know the other members of a group and would like some security that the group organised is not able to run off with the money - are openmoko willing to engage in purchases via escrow agents? or is it a case of 'sort it our amongst yourselves, all we want is a c card number or paypal account'? if the latter is the case, is there anything/anyone openmoko or anyone else here can recommend for making sure things go smoothly? thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
steve wrote: Mass Pro is slated to start between may9 and may 16. Steve's rule say add a week. Then you got test, then you shipping. On Monday ( or maybe Sunday night for my EU friends ) I will do an update. Could you also include status of debug boards? Will they go on sale at the same time as the phones? Will there be debug-board 10-packs? (I don't expect so, but it's possible!) If I'm getting a phone via a group order, is there any advantage to getting a debug board via the same order, or should I just order it on my own? Answers can wait until your update, bu I wanted to get the questions out there. Thanks again for keeping us so well informed! --pj ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
Robin Paulson wrote: steve, what methods are being considered by openmoko for group purchasing? Hi Robin, I can't speak directly for Steve and Openmoko, I'm guessing that once we get enough people for a bulk order, one of us will need to collect payments from everyone else, then place the order with Openmoko as a single buyer. Or, if they're feeling lucky/generous, place the order first, then hope the other people don't change their minds... I've never used any escrow service, though PayPal is sort of a pseudo escrow service in that you can open a dispute to get your money back if you don't get the phone -- of course this leaves the person who paid for all 10 phones in a bad position because PayPal will take the money back from you and THEN ask for proof that you've indeed sent the phone and that it was received. I imagine there are other online escrow services, but would like to hear of recommendations from other users. Having to ship the phones to an actual escrow service doesn't sound very cost effective, by the time you pay an extra shipping charge and escrow fees. Just my $0.02 -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases
Maybe I am just naïve, but in a community like this I doubt that there will be anybody with malicious intent, I would be semi-willing to purchase phones before receiving money for them, and would also trust another purchaser with my money before receiving the phone. When the product becomes more popular, it will be more of an issue, but as it stands the only people who will even know about group purchases really DO want a freerunner. Mo. On Thu, 2008-05-08 at 13:50 +1200, Robin Paulson wrote: steve, what methods are being considered by openmoko for group purchasing? most of us do now know the other members of a group and would like some security that the group organised is not able to run off with the money - are openmoko willing to engage in purchases via escrow agents? or is it a case of 'sort it our amongst yourselves, all we want is a c card number or paypal account'? if the latter is the case, is there anything/anyone openmoko or anyone else here can recommend for making sure things go smoothly? thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
