Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
On Tuesday 22 July 2008 05:43, Simon Matthews wrote: So the fact you were OK at drive level 0 should mean are able to use SD card how you like without problems from SD_CLK to GPS any more. Surely the hardware and software 'fixes' can only be seen as a total fix if they make the SN (signal to noise ratio) of the GPS the same as if the SD card is not present. I would have thought that each of these modifications would improve the SN ratio but would not make it the same as not having the SD card present. I know it is hard but it would be nice to get some figures on how each of these modifications by themselves and together effect the SN ratio. It might turn out that the software clock drive solution by itself is as good as or better than adding the capacitor, and adding the capacitor does not improve the SN ratio any further once the clock drive mod is done, which would make it unnecessary. I haven't modded the hardware, but it do use the software fix. With the fix the GPS works great, I can't notice any difference with or without the SD card present. That is, as long as the SD card is idle, if you start hammering the card you will at least lose some precision. Inside my house I generally loose the fix when the SD card is stressed, not sure what will happen outside. But that's only when really hammering the card, incidental usage does not seem to affect the GPS performance in any way. AVee -- You know the great thing about TV? If something important happens anywhere at all in the world, no matter what time of the day or night, you can always change the channel. -- Jim Ignatowski ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
Inside my house I generally loose the fix when the SD card is stressed, not sure what will happen outside. But that's only when really hammering the card, incidental usage does not seem to affect the GPS performance in any way. Could you elaborate on how did you exactly hammer the card? Copying a big file to/from the card? I should receive my Freerunner in the beginning of august and from what I heard from the distributors, the SD/GPS hw fix is included on it from the start. It would be nice to run a comparison test and see how big of a difference the fix makes in these conditions. Yogiz ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
Thanks for that Andy, There are some numbers here: http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=66a83c97c4545ce4f07e0d90998f906fae49caf2 Could you tell me what exactly you are measuring, radiated power? and under what conditions. How was the noise floor measured. Thanks Simon ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Thanks for that Andy, | | There are some numbers here: | | http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=66a83c97c4545ce4f07e0d90998f906fae49caf2 | | | Could you tell me what exactly you are measuring, radiated power? and | under what conditions. | | How was the noise floor measured. This information comes via apparently google-translated Chinese, what I believe was done is stick a probe on SD_CLK each time, noise floor there is when clock is not running, etc. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiG8ncACgkQOjLpvpq7dMpQJgCgiOYVg0SrS6YXVzKxb3+fhPN6 LvEAn3a82+sfmwc01U0u/oelVWKsgIgX =rYui -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | So the fact you were OK at drive level 0 should mean are able to use SD | card how you like without problems from SD_CLK to GPS any more. | | Surely the hardware and software 'fixes' can only be seen as a total fix | if they make the SN (signal to noise ratio) of the GPS the same as if | the SD card is not present. I would have thought that each of these | modifications would improve the SN ratio but would not make it the same | as not having the SD card present. | | I know it is hard but it would be nice to get some figures on how each | of these modifications by themselves and together effect the SN ratio. As far as it is understood, having the SD card in or not is not actually the issue... the problem has been that with an SD Card in we ran SD_CLK all the time, and this raises the noise at 1.5GHz where GSM works. There is a figure for the cap efficacy, it attenuates the crap coming from SD_CLK by 10dB. But of course stopping the clock does better, and changing the rise and fall time is also directly effective even when the clock does run. | It might turn out that the software clock drive solution by itself is as | good as or better than adding the capacitor, and adding the capacitor | does not improve the SN ratio any further once the clock drive mod is | done, which would make it unnecessary. That's the current thinking, this issue can be solved by kernel update and no rework. Basically we're then not running the clock most time anyway, and tests like the one in this thread (which ran the clock all the time) show that at drive strength 0 we talk to the card fine but do not perturb GPS significantly. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiFrX0ACgkQOjLpvpq7dMoe3wCdHokzAYHLaVcVoATXt13kfcAa GxUAn3kKze522PSZXpw4LVqxldJFb96k =Oc/x -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
On ti, 2008-07-22 at 11:43 +0800, Simon Matthews wrote: Surely the hardware and software 'fixes' can only be seen as a total fix if they make the SN (signal to noise ratio) of the GPS the same as if the SD card is not present. FWIW and IMAO, this definition of a total fix is impractical almost to the point of uselessness. There will always be some noise in a tightly packed product incorporating many high frequency sources. The question is if the noise is significant (as it seems to have originally been). Referring back a bit, it _is_ nice to hear though that the clock drive tuning can improve the situation noticably even with SD clock on, should probably give that a try myself one of these days. (Haven't tested GPS in a while now, but it _would_ be nice not to have to send my unit in for service :) Again, kudos to the team for a job well done on all fronts, sw and hw, with regard to this issue. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
So the fact you were OK at drive level 0 should mean are able to use SD card how you like without problems from SD_CLK to GPS any more. If at all possible, can someone who understands this explain it so we developers can add the hack/patch to our running Freerunners and continue development unimpeded by this issue any longer? Or do we just have to wait until the next image update or something? ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
Hey Andy, will the patch be spread by opkg too? I did some updates, but the sd_card file still does not appear. Anything I missed? thx in advance Bastian On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:11 AM, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Andy Green wrote: | Thanks for this report, I went and looked and found I didn't take care | of the case where last packet transferred was not a bulk read packet: | that what happens on resume. I added a patch to stable branch that | should be out tomorrow hopefully and give the same SD_CLK performance | with or without resumes. | | Thanks for fixing it. I'll test it more once the new kernel build hits the | repos. Just a heads-up there is also another relevant patch on stable tonight. ~ It gives another interesting knob to twiddle about GPS performance. http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d04b142ffeaa15129f046751f1366b0f0614f47 You can check if your kernel package has it tomorrow by looking for ~ cat /sys/module/glamo_mci/parameters/sd_drive if the file doesn't exist you don't have the patch in yet. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiD02gACgkQOjLpvpq7dMoQ8gCgj2Hbu5yh7mzPgclo66rbmn4m wqoAn0/TiHsJEJIoZ51Cs8eYArP449yn =3S3d -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- -- spread the word ... see www.browsehappy.com ;o) Calvin: Weekends don't count unless you spend them doing something completely pointless. Join the Greater IBM Connection (http://www.xing.com/premiumgroup-6291.d26b7d) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | So the fact you were OK at drive level 0 should mean are able to use | SD | card how you like without problems from SD_CLK to GPS any more. | | | If at all possible, can someone who understands this explain it so we | developers can add the hack/patch to our running Freerunners and | continue development unimpeded by this issue any longer? Or do we | just have to wait until the next image update or something? I will change the default drive strength to 0 today, tomorrow's kernel should just work. The SD Card we ship anyway seems to work fine like that. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiFy/0ACgkQOjLpvpq7dMrCLQCfU0laYPbSmWELTc0JDkuekmNj T6wAoIBoNn+lpWWYD16KMYC9f3YevB/U =llOW -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
I will change the default drive strength to 0 today, tomorrow's kernel should just work. The SD Card we ship anyway seems to work fine like that. okay great, i'll keep an eye out for that update tomorrow and test it with my 8gig MicroSD card (kingston), which so far has been working very nicely. \and may i just add: its very nice to be back in the openmoko developer chair again .. having the freerunner for the last 24 hours has been a very big boon to my private development projects .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Hey Andy, | will the patch be spread by opkg too? | I did some updates, but the sd_card file still does not appear. | | Anything I missed? According to the filename, this uImage.bin has the patch in http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080722/uImage-2.6.24+git23+1d04b142ffeaa15129f046751f1366b0f0614f47-r0-om-gta02.bin Likewise, this package http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/om-gta02/kernel-image-2.6.24_2.6.24+git23+1d04b142ffeaa15129f046751f1366b0f0614f47-r0_om-gta02.ipk has the right hash in for having the patch too. If they still don't have the /sys thing, something 'orrible has happened somewhere. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiF0cEACgkQOjLpvpq7dMolXgCdEmeIz0qxkeZEZvAatsyCYAo7 tLUAoJB27QpRa3lMFo54Q/5lM8YAFFUc =3nXL -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
According to the filename, this uImage.bin has the patch in http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080722/uImage-2.6.24+git23+1d04b142ffeaa15129f046751f1366b0f0614f47-r0-om-gta02.bin how did you tell? by looking at the md5sum? btw: why can't these packages not simply have a date in the name, maybe with a time, too? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
btw: why can't these packages not simply have a date in the name, maybe with a time, too? These signify which git tree/revision is built. The date is in the folder names containing it. doesn't help with opkg -- from looking at the package's name you cannot tell if your kernel is from today or two weeks old. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
Surely the hardware and software 'fixes' can only be seen as a total fix if they make the SN (signal to noise ratio) of the GPS the same as if the SD card is not present. FWIW and IMAO, this definition of a total fix is impractical almost to the point of uselessness. There will always be some noise in a tightly packed product incorporating many high frequency sources. The question is if the noise is significant (as it seems to have originally been). Sorry i don't think i have made myself clear. What i meant is that each of the modifications has been claimed to be a fix, when i would think they are only an improvement. What i am trying to get at is to find which of the modifications gives the best improvement. I know it is difficult to quantify this but it would be nice to know that say the clock current drive decrease by itself improved the SN ratio by say 6dB, the capacitor mod by itself improved the SN by say 3dB, and combined the change was 6dB. If this was the case just the software mod would be necessary. If on the other hand the combined change was 9dB then both would be worthwhile. Again, kudos to the team for a job well done on all fronts, sw and hw, with regard to this issue. I agree with this. I find it very impressive that they can get three radio transmitters, four radio receivers, high speed electronics and audio working in such a small package without more problems, and probably done on a shoestring budget as well. Simon ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
Hi, So you mean the patch allowing to change the drive strength for SD, not the latest patch you committed about 2 hours ago which set default strength to 0 ? On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 14:41, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Somebody in the thread at some point said: | According to the filename, this uImage.bin has the patch in | | http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080722/uImage-2.6.24+git23+1d04b142ffeaa15129f046751f1366b0f0614f47-r0-om-gta02.bin | ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
Hi Andy, Can you do your voodoo so that this will install from opkg upgrade? Thanks, Vinc Duran user On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 6:01 AM, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | So the fact you were OK at drive level 0 should mean are able to use | SD | card how you like without problems from SD_CLK to GPS any more. | | | If at all possible, can someone who understands this explain it so we | developers can add the hack/patch to our running Freerunners and | continue development unimpeded by this issue any longer? Or do we | just have to wait until the next image update or something? I will change the default drive strength to 0 today, tomorrow's kernel should just work. The SD Card we ship anyway seems to work fine like that. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiFy/0ACgkQOjLpvpq7dMrCLQCfU0laYPbSmWELTc0JDkuekmNj T6wAoIBoNn+lpWWYD16KMYC9f3YevB/U =llOW -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | I know it is difficult to quantify this but it would be nice to know | that say the clock current drive decrease by itself improved the SN | ratio by say 6dB, the capacitor mod by itself improved the SN by say | 3dB, and combined the change was 6dB. If this was the case just the | software mod would be necessary. If on the other hand the combined | change was 9dB then both would be worthwhile. There are some numbers here: http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=66a83c97c4545ce4f07e0d90998f906fae49caf2 - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiF7ekACgkQOjLpvpq7dMrO1QCffFC9Yi13p++StrjrrfhYLcZd 3c8AoJIXpKWvb/qsxTCQOpi3mg+blXcG =ccYU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | So you mean the patch allowing to change the drive strength for SD, | not the latest patch you committed about 2 hours ago which set default | strength to 0 ? Yes, the now older patch introduced the /sys things. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiF7jAACgkQOjLpvpq7dMow0QCfeykm0Z81BdgVY5zOfIachLs6 vhAAoIKFrtLbtUA8s2XQsiaCxsn/X0j5 =2ifJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Hi Andy, | Can you do your voodoo so that this will install from opkg upgrade? That's someone else's voodoo, but it is the intention that it'll just turn up in packages after 24hrs or less. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiF7msACgkQOjLpvpq7dMruqACglQXUFWZibexvsQoMeapvFWkB rKwAni8O+4Rhu1g76FLCCjaj5LAOcqXj =+IOf -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:34:58 +0200, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess you're not a kernel coder... not only is the segment for these definitively zero at start of kernel, but it is an offence against ./scripts/checkpatch.pl to explicitly zero these things. It's strange to have a script that enforces a worse practice, even when you really can assume that the segment is zeroed. -- Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
2008/7/20 Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Thanks for this report, I went and looked and found I didn't take care of the case where last packet transferred was not a bulk read packet: that what happens on resume. I added a patch to stable branch that should be out tomorrow hopefully and give the same SD_CLK performance with or without resumes. This is now starting to look great! I seem to be unable to get the device into mode where it wouldn't be getting any fixes - suspend, idle, power off, agps ui, switching GPS on and off, after everything it's still ready for GPS action. So, huge thanks for finding the glitch so that the GPS is now finally really usable even without hardware fix! It would be nice to know whether the S/N ratio is about as good with the software fix as it's without SD card - it might not be, it might be. If I get into situation that I can't get signal or it takes very long to get a fix, it's easy to wonder whether the situation could be even better... Anyway, next step for me personally would be more to find out what's wrong with GPRS functionality via which I could get the agps data to speed up GPS even more. -Timo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | This is now starting to look great! I seem to be unable to get the Wah it's good to hear! | It would be nice to know whether the S/N ratio is about as good with | the software fix as it's without SD card - it might not be, it might | be. If I get into situation that I can't get signal or it takes very | long to get a fix, it's easy to wonder whether the situation could be | even better... Halting SD_CLK is the best behaviour for this of all, at that time the cap doesn't bring anything aditionally measurable to the party. That'll be the case when you're not actively doing something with SD Card now. When you are spamming SD Card tomorrow's kernel changes the default drive power for those lines to the lowest. Energy then at 1.5GHz from that is 6dBm more than background level under those conditions, I guess the cap will reduce it 1 or 2 dBm extra but it's already under the level it seems to make any difference to GPS. Combined with the fact we stop the clock altogether normally I don't think the cap rework is needed... if these positive reports keep coming anyway. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiGIfsACgkQOjLpvpq7dMqwhQCgknGK/8KK6Hz69zuRpP8uu6LA BAMAniHqEaH/wqGHkiLJk29/nwErKrfP =0BAb -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Edward A. Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You do NOT get tech support like this anywhere else. Those of you pounding your virtual fists on the table and demanding a fix *right now* are out of line. The OpenMoko team is obviously working on it; give them a little time. Nevertheless the fact that this problem existed, was identified months ago by early testers, and it took this long to find the root cause. I'm really quite surprised it managed to ship in this condition, when the fix is fundamentally a hardware one. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
I'm really quite surprised it managed to ship in this condition, when the fix is fundamentally a hardware one. yikes. i think your record is broken ... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 02:11:38 +0200, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a heads-up there is also another relevant patch on stable tonight. ~ It gives another interesting knob to twiddle about GPS performance. http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d04b142ffeaa15129f046751f1366b0f0614f47 What does “strength” mean in this context? Voltage? -- Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 02:11:38 +0200, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | Just a heads-up there is also another relevant patch on stable tonight. | ~ It gives another interesting knob to twiddle about GPS performance. | | http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d04b142ffeaa15129f046751f1366b0f0614f47 | | What does “strength” mean in this context? Voltage? No, it will refer to the amount of current allowed to the drive the output transistors in the Glamo's SD-related IO cells. If they are starved of current, it affects the rise and fall time of the output, it is the sharpness of the edges that creates the higher frequency energy that makes trouble at 1.5GHz we suspect. Running at strength 0 worked fine here on the SD Card we ship and should significantly affect those high harmonics. I eyeballed the clock signal that results and it's not so degraded. Basically stopping the clock when idle attacks it the bulk of the time when we don't talk to the device and the strength setting attacks it even when we are talking to the SD Card. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiEPCYACgkQOjLpvpq7dMoPJQCdFrzIBw19ilHUDH595cfjGEqU WD4AnA0XBJT3W3bpq72gdtVcBjgcZTfH =Eplk -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Andy Green, 2008-07-20 18:50:02 +0100 : Thanks for this report, I went and looked and found I didn't take care of the case where last packet transferred was not a bulk read packet: that what happens on resume. I added a patch to stable branch that should be out tomorrow hopefully and give the same SD_CLK performance with or without resumes. Based on a handful of tests, and without tweaking the new parameter, I can confirm that the GPS problem seems fixed for me, even after suspending, even indoors. Let me get this straight: Andy, you rock. Others @openmoko: you rock too. So there. Now this gets me wondering whether the Freerunner could sustain an Openstreetmap editor for realtime map-making :-) Roland. -- Roland Mas Homme qui plus rien à dire, citer proverbe chinois. -- Proverbe chinois. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Andy Green, 2008-07-20 18:50:02 +0100 : | | Thanks for this report, I went and looked and found I didn't take | care of the case where last packet transferred was not a bulk read | packet: that what happens on resume. I added a patch to stable | branch that should be out tomorrow hopefully and give the same | SD_CLK performance with or without resumes. | | Based on a handful of tests, and without tweaking the new parameter, I | can confirm that the GPS problem seems fixed for me, even after Great... an aside from your email, I think this Debian stuff on Freerunner rocks... it's a working distro port that does not need Open Embedded, I only wish I heard about it earlier: evidently my fault for missing it. When I get some time I will try to bring X up on it and get a feel for just how heavy the real deal is on this platform, but regardless having a full proper OS on there obviously meets some usage cases for this device already. Before that I will also try to meddle around and install some more packages like wpa_supplicant on that default install and publish an SD image somewhere so it is easier to try, assuming this doesn't make license trouble (and it didn't exist already). | Now this gets me wondering whether the Freerunner could sustain an | Openstreetmap editor for realtime map-making :-) Somebody did some work in this direction but I don't have the URL. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiER08ACgkQOjLpvpq7dMoYPwCdGQOiqpwJCtO0qy3Scbb7gXMZ 9MMAnj9FP2sEtLW0PH0QbjiWcCcTWmnt =/YIr -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
Andy Green wrote: Just a heads-up there is also another relevant patch on stable tonight. ~ It gives another interesting knob to twiddle about GPS performance. http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d04b142ffeaa15129f046751f1366b0f0614f47 I did some tests with the new settings. My observations are based on the signal strength output in AGPS-UI. sd_idleclk=1 and sd_drive=2: The strength of the gps-signal rapidly goes down, then I loose the fix on my window. sd_idleclk=1 and sd_drive=0: I can't see a weakening of the gps-signal. Signal strength seems as good as with sd_idleclk=0. I copied some (big) files to and from the card, none were corrupted, all md5-sums were identical. I'm using a sandisk 4GB SDHC card. Thanks for the great work. -Chris ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
does it say what the two settings actually do? Scott Chris wrote: Andy Green wrote: Just a heads-up there is also another relevant patch on stable tonight. ~ It gives another interesting knob to twiddle about GPS performance. http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d04b142ffeaa15129f046751f1366b0f0614f47 I did some tests with the new settings. My observations are based on the signal strength output in AGPS-UI. sd_idleclk=1 and sd_drive=2: The strength of the gps-signal rapidly goes down, then I loose the fix on my window. sd_idleclk=1 and sd_drive=0: I can't see a weakening of the gps-signal. Signal strength seems as good as with sd_idleclk=0. I copied some (big) files to and from the card, none were corrupted, all md5-sums were identical. I'm using a sandisk 4GB SDHC card. Thanks for the great work. -Chris ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
look here: http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d04b142ffeaa15129f046751f1366b0f0614f47 Scott Derrick wrote: does it say what the two settings actually do? Scott ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | sd_idleclk=1 and sd_drive=0: | I can't see a weakening of the gps-signal. Signal strength seems as good | as with sd_idleclk=0. | I copied some (big) files to and from the card, none were corrupted, all | md5-sums were identical. I'm using a sandisk 4GB SDHC card. Cool, thanks for the report. That was a tougher test than you might have thought, since sd_idleclk=1 keeps the SD Clock going all the time. ~ Normally you would leave sd_idleclk at default of 0 and stop the clock when no transfer. So the fact you were OK at drive level 0 should mean are able to use SD card how you like without problems from SD_CLK to GPS any more. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiE8SgACgkQOjLpvpq7dMoKIwCfba4dU+ZhkhCvE5E1clEhXZHE 6AQAoIYO4/nomPKkGN3GdGL47knTZzi2 =KFb/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
So the fact you were OK at drive level 0 should mean are able to use SD card how you like without problems from SD_CLK to GPS any more. Surely the hardware and software 'fixes' can only be seen as a total fix if they make the SN (signal to noise ratio) of the GPS the same as if the SD card is not present. I would have thought that each of these modifications would improve the SN ratio but would not make it the same as not having the SD card present. I know it is hard but it would be nice to get some figures on how each of these modifications by themselves and together effect the SN ratio. It might turn out that the software clock drive solution by itself is as good as or better than adding the capacitor, and adding the capacitor does not improve the SN ratio any further once the clock drive mod is done, which would make it unnecessary. Simon ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Hello, On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 5:03 AM, Yaroslav Halchenko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: anyone knows if the software patch which was done has any hooks in user space so the same procedure (shut off SD while getting FF) could be initiated manually (from a script or so)? AFAIK, the patch doesn't work that way - ie there is no shut off SD card while we do something else procedure. Instead the SD card is shut off (ie. clock disabled) when it is idle. So as long as you avoid reading from or writing to the SD card you should be fine. HTH -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 05:03, Yaroslav Halchenko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: anyone knows if the software patch which was done has any hooks in user space so the same procedure (shut off SD while getting FF) could be initiated manually (from a script or so)? The patch works like this: When I/O to/from the SD - turn on clocking when no I/O - turn the clocking off so... do not use the SD card in any way (umount) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
it is just that 'off while not active' seems to not explain why Ville-Pekka Vainio reports effects of slow TTFF after suspend/resume cycles... but let me just stop here -- I should just check out myself instead of blurbing ;-) On Sun, 20 Jul 2008, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: Hello, On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 5:03 AM, Yaroslav Halchenko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: anyone knows if the software patch which was done has any hooks in user space so the same procedure (shut off SD while getting FF) could be initiated manually (from a script or so)? AFAIK, the patch doesn't work that way - ie there is no shut off SD card while we do something else procedure. Instead the SD card is shut off (ie. clock disabled) when it is idle. So as long as you avoid reading from or writing to the SD card you should be fine. HTH -- Yaroslav Halchenko Research Assistant, Psychology Department, Rutgers-Newark Student Ph.D. @ CS Dept. NJIT Office: (973) 353-5440x263 | FWD: 82823 | Fax: (973) 353-1171 101 Warren Str, Smith Hall, Rm 4-105, Newark NJ 07102 WWW: http://www.linkedin.com/in/yarik ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Timo Jyrinki wrote: | Does anyone else have a reliability problem now with the new kernel | and GPS when SD card is used? | | Yes, I just did some testing. The phone had been on for about 12 hours maybe | and had gone through multiple suspend-wakeup cycles. TTFF was around 10 | minutes. Then I switched off the phone and switched it back on, after that | TTFF was about 40 seconds. | | Now that I came back indoors, the phone still has a fix and with older kernels | it could not keep the fix if I went indoors. So it seems the software fix | isn't perfect yet (it can't recover from suspend or something), but if you | always start fresh, it does work well. Thanks for this report, I went and looked and found I didn't take care of the case where last packet transferred was not a bulk read packet: that what happens on resume. I added a patch to stable branch that should be out tomorrow hopefully and give the same SD_CLK performance with or without resumes. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiDesQACgkQOjLpvpq7dMrLUQCff0b6KBpq7mPp+Leu+fqqEHoN jpkAn2id9Xkw2l5NC27dhT06FMBv382O =iZHa -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Andy Green wrote: Thanks for this report, I went and looked and found I didn't take care of the case where last packet transferred was not a bulk read packet: that what happens on resume. I added a patch to stable branch that should be out tomorrow hopefully and give the same SD_CLK performance with or without resumes. Thanks for fixing it. I'll test it more once the new kernel build hits the repos. -- Ville-Pekka Vainio ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Andy Green wrote: | Thanks for this report, I went and looked and found I didn't take care | of the case where last packet transferred was not a bulk read packet: | that what happens on resume. I added a patch to stable branch that | should be out tomorrow hopefully and give the same SD_CLK performance | with or without resumes. | | Thanks for fixing it. I'll test it more once the new kernel build hits the | repos. Just a heads-up there is also another relevant patch on stable tonight. ~ It gives another interesting knob to twiddle about GPS performance. http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d04b142ffeaa15129f046751f1366b0f0614f47 You can check if your kernel package has it tomorrow by looking for ~ cat /sys/module/glamo_mci/parameters/sd_drive if the file doesn't exist you don't have the patch in yet. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiD02gACgkQOjLpvpq7dMoQ8gCgj2Hbu5yh7mzPgclo66rbmn4m wqoAn0/TiHsJEJIoZ51Cs8eYArP449yn =3S3d -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Timo Jyrinki a écrit : 2008/7/18 Timo Jyrinki [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It seems it's not as good as without SD card, but definitely a visible improvement. Sorry for spamming, I just try to describe what I'm experiencing :) Does anyone else have a reliability problem now with the new kernel and GPS when SD card is used? I'm able now with the new kernel to get a fix, indoor and outdoor, in acceptables times (ttff ~ 1000s indoor, ~300 outdoor). I feel like it was better without the SD, but still - it's good enough !!! Thanks ! - -- A happy FR owner Christophe Badoit -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIgdHVynEdw4rmTRkRAjXHAJwNgkU1osmQJyAkZRgDzflyUHc7cgCdG5Q9 3/IaBOGibcrPCKQt1BtggG8= =uk8O -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Timo Jyrinki, 2008-07-18 13:42:02 +0300 : Does anyone else have a reliability problem now with the new kernel and GPS when SD card is used? Am Fr 18. Juli 2008 schrieb Roland Mas: I have. Didn't manage to properly isolate the problem, but my gut feeling is that Andy's patch to disable SD when acquiring the first fix does only that for, well, the first fix. *Apparently*, there are circumstances where running agpsgui once, getting a fix, exiting and restarting afterwards, doesn't result in the FR getting a new fix. As you said, rebooting solves the problem, but suspend/resume cycles don't seem to reliably fix it. Joerg Reisenweber, 2008-07-19 00:26:14 +0200 : Sorry! There's *no* disabling of SDcard for FF! My apologies. I was under the impression that the gist of the kernel patch was to temporarily switch off the clock for the SD card reader when it's not in use, and that this was able to reduce interference with GPS signals, thus helping TTFF. But I haven't touched radio comms for years, so I might be completely off. Who's talking about suspend/resume cycles, did I miss sth? I am. Since rebooting seemed to have an influence on the problem, I thought it could help if I tried suspending and report my results. Please read the appropriate posts describing the way this patch works. Otherwise, please don't conclude on false assumptions, but just report what you observed. Thanks for regarding this, helps a lot! That's what I was trying to do. I suppose my wording was not good enough, and I apologise for that. Roland. -- Roland Mas Bee There Orr Bee A Rectangular Thyng! -- in Soul Music (Terry Pratchett) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
2008/7/19 Roland Mas [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Does anyone else have a reliability problem now with the new kernel and GPS when SD card is used? *Apparently*, there are circumstances where running agpsgui once, getting a fix, exiting and restarting afterwards, doesn't result in the FR getting a new fix. As you said, rebooting solves the problem, but suspend/resume cycles don't seem to reliably fix it. Yep, I now had an opportunity to test it more. I used mostly TangoGPS, and it seemed that in real world I basically needed to reboot every time I wanted to reliably have a GPS fix. It felt like (just guesses, hard to really isolate what's going on) if the device had suspended even once, or otherwise stood still, I got zero satellite visibility (also checked in AGPS UI). Even worse, it seemed that often after reboot I first got satellite visibility for 30-60s, but before getting a fix the satellites were lost again. But when it worked for long enough, I got proper fixes with 6-10 satellites and the fix stayed, which is of course way better than before the kernel fix, when this was never possible. The problem getting even the first fix after reboot might be related to loading the initial map files from SD card, thus perhaps activating the SD. I haven't at least yet tried the tip about blinking led when SD clock is active, but that might indeed be a very good debugging method for anyone. -Timo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Timo Jyrinki wrote: Does anyone else have a reliability problem now with the new kernel and GPS when SD card is used? Yes, I just did some testing. The phone had been on for about 12 hours maybe and had gone through multiple suspend-wakeup cycles. TTFF was around 10 minutes. Then I switched off the phone and switched it back on, after that TTFF was about 40 seconds. Now that I came back indoors, the phone still has a fix and with older kernels it could not keep the fix if I went indoors. So it seems the software fix isn't perfect yet (it can't recover from suspend or something), but if you always start fresh, it does work well. -- Ville-Pekka Vainio ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
anyone knows if the software patch which was done has any hooks in user space so the same procedure (shut off SD while getting FF) could be initiated manually (from a script or so)? On Sat, 19 Jul 2008, Ville-Pekka Vainio wrote: Timo Jyrinki wrote: Does anyone else have a reliability problem now with the new kernel and GPS when SD card is used? Yes, I just did some testing. The phone had been on for about 12 hours maybe and had gone through multiple suspend-wakeup cycles. TTFF was around 10 minutes. Then I switched off the phone and switched it back on, after that TTFF was about 40 seconds. Now that I came back indoors, the phone still has a fix and with older kernels it could not keep the fix if I went indoors. So it seems the software fix isn't perfect yet (it can't recover from suspend or something), but if you always start fresh, it does work well. -- Yaroslav Halchenko Research Assistant, Psychology Department, Rutgers-Newark Student Ph.D. @ CS Dept. NJIT Office: (973) 353-5440x263 | FWD: 82823 | Fax: (973) 353-1171 101 Warren Str, Smith Hall, Rm 4-105, Newark NJ 07102 WWW: http://www.linkedin.com/in/yarik ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Do you know if the Antaris enters one of the sleep/backup modes | on system power loss? If it does, perhaps it mode switch is triggered by | external firmware. In backup mode it only consumes 8uA, and can | probably remain alive for a long time on with regular large capacitors, | such as the ones in the middle of the board. Yes these seem to be the right thoughts... SRAM cells themselves can hold data with no power for a surprising time. And the firmware in ROM in the GPS chip is closed, so we don't know its criteria for believing that what it finds in the SRAM on powerup is valid and it should try to use it. Situation for backup power on the GPS chip is that backup battery is optional, we did not take the option and seem to have correctly done the recommended steps for no battery. There are two backup-related balls on the GPS chip, we tie VBAT that would take the battery to 0V, and we place 1uF cap on VBAT18 ball. But when power is taken, this net seems to discharge the cap quite quickly. I use the production test software DM2 to test GPS, in this code we use the UBX command CFG-RST to take a dump on the stored settings and reset ourselves again, but still the GPS chip appears willing to hold state across powerdowns. I have asked for support from U-Blox for some other UBX commands that say they can read and write memory in the device randomly, assuming that's possible I will dump and zero that memory using those and see if we can get the GPS chip to act deterministically on powerup without dependency on what happened last session (not too much to ask you would think). - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiAVDMACgkQOjLpvpq7dMq4YACfYYa/m/XNWnFdP7WzaTWL8gKg dIUAn3ZumfZC+UumEsOCD/MfJOiY2XrP =nKuq -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
2008/7/17 Timo Jyrinki [EMAIL PROTECTED]: | I tried the kernel too, but it didn't help. Didn't get any fixes in 3 | minutes when having SD card in (not in use, ie. maps not there). | Removed the SD card and got a TTFF in 34 seconds. I haven't seen any other readily available builds besides those mwester's andy+wester builds, but hopefully others can test eg. them also. I now okpg upgraded to the current stable ones including the SD fixes, and did a bit more testing than before. I now got a fix in this difficult place, albeit after 140-250 seconds instead of 34 depending on the run. What I didn't mention earlier is that I used the assistive data to get that 34 seconds (ie. power on in AGPS UI, then quickly switch to terminal and retrieve the assistive data from u-blox). Somehow it doesn't seem to help as much (or at all) now with SD card in, since I get TTFF of over 100s both with or without, or so it seems. A few times I didn't get a fix in 5 minutes, so it's definitely on the borderline now instead of being reliable like without SD card. But anyway, the great news is that this is definitely a big improvement. This is in a place where I used to be for half an hour without getting even UTC time from GPS if I used SD card, and now I'm getting fixes with SD card in. It seems it's not as good as without SD card, but definitely a visible improvement. -Timo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | But anyway, the great news is that this is definitely a big | improvement. This is in a place where I used to be for half an hour | without getting even UTC time from GPS if I used SD card, and now I'm | getting fixes with SD card in. | | It seems it's not as good as without SD card, but definitely a visible | improvement. Thanks for the report... I will look for stronger medicine then. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiAaSoACgkQOjLpvpq7dMo0fQCfegv9AODDQ5PMrPcWu3lKRJs1 6qkAoI+7hfLJrcoPOFc6RSn+D8mF62Fx =nMzT -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
2008/7/18 Timo Jyrinki [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It seems it's not as good as without SD card, but definitely a visible improvement. Sorry for spamming, I just try to describe what I'm experiencing :) Does anyone else have a reliability problem now with the new kernel and GPS when SD card is used? I went properly outside but didn't seem to get a fix, maybe 1-2 satellites max and no fixes. I drove around a bit and nothing. I came back, then rebooted Neo and tried again - almost instant fix in ca. 30-45 seconds with 6-8 satellites in the same spot I got nothing just before reboot. So it might be worth checking if the SD card clock is properly adjusted in all needed cases, or it if might be left unchanged in some situations. When I didn't have fixes, it behaved basically as bad as before the new kernel. But when the new kernel worked as it should, it was great. -Timo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
On 2008-07-18, Timo Jyrinki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/7/18 Timo Jyrinki [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It seems it's not as good as without SD card, but definitely a visible improvement. Sorry for spamming, I just try to describe what I'm experiencing :) Does anyone else have a reliability problem now with the new kernel and GPS when SD card is used? I went properly outside but didn't seem to get a fix, maybe 1-2 satellites max and no fixes. I drove around a bit and nothing. I came back, then rebooted Neo and tried again - almost instant fix in ca. 30-45 seconds with 6-8 satellites in the same spot I got nothing just before reboot. So it might be worth checking if the SD card clock is properly adjusted in all needed cases, or it if might be left unchanged in some situations. When I didn't have fixes, it behaved basically as bad as before the new kernel. But when the new kernel worked as it should, it was great. If you want to test if the SD card is used, you can patch your kernel to turn on a LED when the SD clock is active and switch off the LED when it has been inactive for more than 0.3 sec. It is a good way to test. If you do not like the LED idea, you can use printk(KERN_WARNING, SD_CLK ON); whenever the SD clock is activated, and printk(KERN_WARNING, SD_CLK OFF); when it is disabled. Maybe also add a timestamp. This way, you will know if the SD card was in use when you tried to get your fix. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Andy Green wrote: Yes GPS chip is very sticky, even when depowered for some time it seems to hold state and not act in a deterministic way. It makes it hard to know if the last thing you changed is responsible for the behaviour staying the same or changing, or if it was going to do that anyway. That makes debugging it very confused. -Andy While the issue you mention may have affected my test, here's the results: 1. Upgraded to today's kernel: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/# uname -a Linux om-gta02 2.6.24 #1 PREEMPT Fri Jul 18 02:16:41 CEST 2008 armv4tl unknown 2. Tested GPS TTFF without SD card (from an indoor position not near a window): 306s 3. Shutdown and insert SD card 4. Tested GPS TTFF with SD card (from same indoor position not near a window): 484s Previously from this same spot with SD card I could let it run all night long and never get a fix, so maybe the fix in step 2 is helping the fix in step 4, but the impression I get is that the most recent kernel has improved things. Brian Note: I get much better TTFF times outdoors, but didn't have opportunity to check. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
2. Tested GPS TTFF without SD card (from an indoor position not near a window): 306s 3. Shutdown and insert SD card 4. Tested GPS TTFF with SD card (from same indoor position not near a window): 484s Nice test but I have a concern that only simulataneous test is a fair one (two FR side by side) This is because gps satellites are constantly moving (2 orbits per day) so results can change http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ConstellationGPS.gif Therefore I don't think we can place too much weight on time difference above in case particular building configuration in your in-door test suddenly shaded one crucial satellite Overall, getting indoor gps fix at all is pretty impressive - SIRF III is great chipset. If you bought GPS from 5 years ago this would be impossible for phone app. Also my (last year) O2 XDA Orbit is will not get indoor gps lock JW ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Am Fr 18. Juli 2008 schrieb JW: Overall, getting indoor gps fix at all is pretty impressive - SIRF III is great chipset. Just we're using u-blox antaris chip ;-) (nearly as good, or maybe even better) /j signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Timo Jyrinki, 2008-07-18 13:42:02 +0300 : Does anyone else have a reliability problem now with the new kernel and GPS when SD card is used? I have. Didn't manage to properly isolate the problem, but my gut feeling is that Andy's patch to disable SD when acquiring the first fix does only that for, well, the first fix. *Apparently*, there are circumstances where running agpsgui once, getting a fix, exiting and restarting afterwards, doesn't result in the FR getting a new fix. As you said, rebooting solves the problem, but suspend/resume cycles don't seem to reliably fix it. Roland. -- Roland Mas Au royaume des aveugles, il y a des borgnes à ne pas dépasser. -- in Soeur Marie-Thérèse des Batignolles (Maëster) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Am Fr 18. Juli 2008 schrieb Roland Mas: Timo Jyrinki, 2008-07-18 13:42:02 +0300 : Does anyone else have a reliability problem now with the new kernel and GPS when SD card is used? I have. Didn't manage to properly isolate the problem, but my gut feeling is that Andy's patch to disable SD when acquiring the first fix does only that for, well, the first fix. *Apparently*, there are circumstances where running agpsgui once, getting a fix, exiting and restarting afterwards, doesn't result in the FR getting a new fix. As you said, rebooting solves the problem, but suspend/resume cycles don't seem to reliably fix it. Roland. -- Roland Mas Sorry! There's *no* disabling of SDcard for FF! Who's talking about suspend/resume cycles, did I miss sth? Please read the appropriate posts describing the way this patch works. Otherwise, please don't conclude on false assumptions, but just report what you observed. Thanks for regarding this, helps a lot! cheers jOERG signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 04:18:42PM +0200, Benedikt Schindler wrote: hi, i think the openmoko team is doing a great job. and everyone was onto it, to have a fast and good solution. so i think the real interesting question now is: Had someone tested Andy's fix-force-sdcard-clk-off-when-idle patch yet? Does it solve the problem? And how many mA does that patch save ;) (I still couldn't test patches. my phone hopefully arrives on 27th) so thanks for the work Joerg, Andy and the hole rest of the OM team. and also thanks to the man who found out that it is a SD-Card problem. (i still must have a fish somewhere, for all the guys who think that this is so bad and that it's impossible that the OM team delivered such a phone) The kind of error that caused the GPS problem is very common in *every* new commercial product development. The severity varies, but I've been bitten by it many time. I think the devs at OpenMoko handled this one very, very well. And, I think that most of the users handled it very, very well too. The heroes of this story are of course whomever at OpenMoko came up with and implemented the fix, but also the user in Germany who isolated the bug down to the SD card through careful testing. That is the kind of cooperation that shows the value of Free Software. What was the time diff between the moment that the SD card was isolated as the source of the problem, and when a software fix was found, tested, and made available? Two days? One day? That's amazing. Hats off to everyone. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
I haven't seen a GPS device yet, including TomTom and Garmin devices, that is completely free of defects during this stage of operation. My Becker device has no problems whatsoever reading maps while maintaining a very tight fix, and I've driven all over Austria and never noticed such an issue. (TomTom jumps a few miles ahead or behind, then flies back to the proper position. The Garmin device I used froze in place for a few seconds before zooming ahead) Just because 'other' devices may also have design defects with software workarounds doesn't mean much, imho. We're not coding for TomTom or Garmin, we're coding for OpenMoko. Non-sequitur. You probably won't be able to watch videos from the SD card while using the GPS, but you will be able to use the SD card after the kernel is patched to switch off when not being accessed. If its a suitable workaround or not can only be judged by actual application, not discussion. The efficacy of this solution to poor hardware design can only be judged when the patch makes it into the mainstream, and when users - and developers - whiny or otherwise - push the fix into action and actually see the results. Your point that we may not even notice the issue is taken; it remains to be seen. If this kind of openness disturbs you, you might feel more comfortable with a legacy system like the iPhone 3G. .. or some other open-source cell phone or similarly configured open- source, Linux-based devices. Its not like OpenMoko are the only ones who are making a lot of hype about the open nature of the project, and its also true that other devices being developed in an open fashion have better and worse aspects in terms of hardware design .. testing .. and the general snarkiness of their communities. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Hi again, On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 5:26 PM, nick loeve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Andy (nice work BTW, you and the rest of the team) On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 5:02 PM, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | FWIW i just flashed | http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080715/uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin | today and i got a fix outside with my sd card inserted. Previously i | never saw a satellite unless i took it out. | | Did that build have the patches i see at | http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=shortlog;h=andy ? Those guys are built off stable branch going by the git hash, it doesn't have the latest patches in yet that are in andy. The only GPS-related patch it should have is one that stops power from idle / high UART TX pin leaking into GPS section when it is 'off', but that isn't directly suspected. So I dunno why your GPS is all happy after being happy the first time, but long may it last :-) Yeah this is nice, but strange... as I have tried for more than the last week to even see a satellite, in a range of conditions, and positions, and sometimes for hours at a time. Oh well, not complaining... :) I just tried the latest mwebster-andy kernel from http://moko.mwester.net/dl.html#kernels which has the sdcard clock patches, and now i get even better signals, and fix from cold start outside in 48secs. So the voltage patch certainly helped, and the sdcard clock patches seemed to have made it even better. I have not tried accessing maps from sdcard while using GPS, but i will try and test that later. Cheers, and thanks for the good work! - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkh+DXEACgkQOjLpvpq7dMohBACgjPYw6oqp9hlVHiGIAsPP5YUn eHQAoIMo2QqfNztz5QW7aZ9MuXy74Um7 =Sxhi -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Nick Loeve -- Nick Loeve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Time share the SD Card , was Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
scott, could you please disable html mails and send only plain text? thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Are we not pioneers of the open source mobile phone revolution? And remember: It's the pioneers who take the arrows. not if the go along well with the native tribes ... ;-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
2008/7/17 nick loeve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I just tried the latest mwebster-andy kernel from http://moko.mwester.net/dl.html#kernels which has the sdcard clock patches, and now i get even better signals, and fix from cold start outside in 48secs. So the voltage patch certainly helped, and the sdcard clock patches seemed to have made it even better. I tried the kernel too, but it didn't help. Didn't get any fixes in 3 minutes when having SD card in (not in use, ie. maps not there). Removed the SD card and got a TTFF in 34 seconds. -Timo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | 2008/7/17 nick loeve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: | I just tried the latest mwebster-andy kernel from | http://moko.mwester.net/dl.html#kernels which has the sdcard clock | patches, and now i get even better signals, and fix from cold start | outside in 48secs. | | So the voltage patch certainly helped, and the sdcard clock patches | seemed to have made it even better. | | I tried the kernel too, but it didn't help. Didn't get any fixes in 3 | minutes when having SD card in (not in use, ie. maps not there). | Removed the SD card and got a TTFF in 34 seconds. Two points about testing it: ~ - order of tests can matter. If you get a good test first, it seems the requirements for next test can be relaxed by GPS chip and we don't really test it then. ~ - patch only helps if SD Card is not accessed. I read a thread yesterday in devel list about some ASU / Qtopia component spamming SD Card after start up. http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2008-July/44.html - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkh/KnoACgkQOjLpvpq7dMp7XgCeIaswI/HWS2Skls5m2vkBUpGp ugsAn3+mrJWRLzxG4sSBQBwzlRQMhQ7d =o/l6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Jay Vaughan schrieb: If you can't understand why people would be frustrated to learn that something as simple as testing GPS with the SD Card in the phone hasn't been done, then you shouldn't be selling hardware. So maybe you shold apply for the job of Head-Test-Designer and Head-HW-Salesman at OM, stop whining and improve the Tests and then you would be able to guarantee: There is no problem chewing bubble-gum and using your Freerunner, while you are walking with your dog. *IF THIS ISSUE was that trivial, did you reported the solution?* best papa-piet ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
[regarding Jay Vaughan] *IF THIS ISSUE was that trivial, did you reported the solution?* i think everything to be said is said already -- and more than once and necessary. while everybody is free to repeat those rants over and over if would be for the best of the list if it could STOP right now! please, let's move on and mark the issue you said, i said, he said and we all thought mark as solved. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Yeah, definitely with you on the 'moving on' part .. glad to see there is a workaround for the GPS+SD problems, and I'm also watching the SD +Glamo hacking with keen interest .. j. On Jul 17, 2008, at 2:19 PM, arne anka wrote: [regarding Jay Vaughan] *IF THIS ISSUE was that trivial, did you reported the solution?* i think everything to be said is said already -- and more than once and necessary. while everybody is free to repeat those rants over and over if would be for the best of the list if it could STOP right now! please, let's move on and mark the issue you said, i said, he said and we all thought mark as solved. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
C'mon guys! I'm sick of all this s**t!! Jay, if you don't like Freerunner go away and shut up, else stay but still shut up! Jay Vaughan wrote: div class=moz-text-flowed style=font-family: -moz-fixedYeah, definitely with you on the 'moving on' part .. glad to see there is a workaround for the GPS+SD problems, and I'm also watching the SD+Glamo hacking with keen interest .. j. On Jul 17, 2008, at 2:19 PM, arne anka wrote: [regarding Jay Vaughan] *IF THIS ISSUE was that trivial, did you reported the solution?* i think everything to be said is said already -- and more than once and necessary. while everybody is free to repeat those rants over and over if would be for the best of the list if it could STOP right now! please, let's move on and mark the issue you said, i said, he said and we all thought mark as solved. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ; -- Jay Vaughan /div ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
I did an opkg update on the factory image last night (~7-8 PM PST), and now GPS fix times are less than a minute. The update downloaded a new kernel: # opkg status kernel Package: kernel Version: 2:2.6.24+git20+287b292cf95edbd82dc63085ae5f0167a6e8141f-r0 Depends: kernel-2.6.24 Status: install user installed Architecture: om-gta02 Did I get the SD patch or not? I ask because I'm updating the wiki, and don't want to put wrong information up... For what it's worth, my initial test suggests that playing .ogg files off SD doesn't seem to affect getting a GPS fix... -Rusty Andy Green wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | 2008/7/17 nick loeve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: | I just tried the latest mwebster-andy kernel from | http://moko.mwester.net/dl.html#kernels which has the sdcard clock | patches, and now i get even better signals, and fix from cold start | outside in 48secs. | | So the voltage patch certainly helped, and the sdcard clock patches | seemed to have made it even better. | | I tried the kernel too, but it didn't help. Didn't get any fixes in 3 | minutes when having SD card in (not in use, ie. maps not there). | Removed the SD card and got a TTFF in 34 seconds. Two points about testing it: ~ - order of tests can matter. If you get a good test first, it seems the requirements for next test can be relaxed by GPS chip and we don't really test it then. ~ - patch only helps if SD Card is not accessed. I read a thread yesterday in devel list about some ASU / Qtopia component spamming SD Card after start up. http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2008-July/44.html - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkh/KnoACgkQOjLpvpq7dMp7XgCeIaswI/HWS2Skls5m2vkBUpGp ugsAn3+mrJWRLzxG4sSBQBwzlRQMhQ7d =o/l6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
2008/7/17 Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED]: || http://moko.mwester.net/dl.html#kernels which has the sdcard clock | I tried the kernel too, but it didn't help. Didn't get any fixes in 3 | minutes when having SD card in (not in use, ie. maps not there). | Removed the SD card and got a TTFF in 34 seconds. Two points about testing it: ~ - order of tests can matter. If you get a good test first, it seems the requirements for next test can be relaxed by GPS chip and we don't really test it then. I did get the bad test first, ie. didn't get fix, SD card inserted. Then powered off, removed SD card and got the fixes. I could also repeat the feat by swapping SD card in and out between shutdowns. ~ - patch only helps if SD Card is not accessed. I read a thread yesterday in devel list about some ASU / Qtopia component spamming SD Card after start up. Using 2007.2, and not accessing SD. The place I used is my balcony, which is generally not too good place. However, since I didn't get any visible benefit in any area from using the new kernel, I stopped testing for now. I haven't seen any other readily available builds besides those mwester's andy+wester builds, but hopefully others can test eg. them also. -Timo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Russell Sears wrote: I did an opkg update on the factory image last night (~7-8 PM PST), and now GPS fix times are less than a minute. The update downloaded a new False alarm; the satellites must have been aligned last night... Fix times are multiple minutes again... -Rusty ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Russell Sears wrote: | I did an opkg update on the factory image last night (~7-8 PM PST), and | now GPS fix times are less than a minute. The update downloaded a new | | False alarm; the satellites must have been aligned last night... Fix | times are multiple minutes again... Yes GPS chip is very sticky, even when depowered for some time it seems to hold state and not act in a deterministic way. It makes it hard to know if the last thing you changed is responsible for the behaviour staying the same or changing, or if it was going to do that anyway. That makes debugging it very confused. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkh/pGgACgkQOjLpvpq7dMpF0wCffyM6SfAP+sVFbaT6X5le5Y6H Q5MAoI2EISG25546tr+smp1D5Lv796wv =6kEn -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Hi Andy, and thank you for your quick and focused efforts. Do you know if the Antaris enters one of the sleep/backup modes on system power loss? If it does, perhaps it mode switch is triggered by external firmware. In backup mode it only consumes 8uA, and can probably remain alive for a long time on with regular large capacitors, such as the ones in the middle of the board. If it was fitted with external flash, it might not need even that, of course, but that may perhaps be messed with directly, perhaps by changing expiration dates of cached data or such. Cheers, Yair. On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 08:58:32PM +0100, Andy Green wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Russell Sears wrote: | I did an opkg update on the factory image last night (~7-8 PM PST), and | now GPS fix times are less than a minute. The update downloaded a new | | False alarm; the satellites must have been aligned last night... Fix | times are multiple minutes again... Yes GPS chip is very sticky, even when depowered for some time it seems to hold state and not act in a deterministic way. It makes it hard to know if the last thing you changed is responsible for the behaviour staying the same or changing, or if it was going to do that anyway. That makes debugging it very confused. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkh/pGgACgkQOjLpvpq7dMpF0wCffyM6SfAP+sVFbaT6X5le5Y6H Q5MAoI2EISG25546tr+smp1D5Lv796wv =6kEn -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Ever thought about I might feel personally offended by you publically assuming I sell hw I *know* or even have suspect there is a HW-bug in it. Nope. I have not ever made that assumption. I assumed you didn't know you had been selling buggy hardware. Thats the problem. Did you consider the public image that's being created by a statement like Ah well, this seems not to work. So the brick is useless for me. Damn the day I bought it If you can't understand why people would be frustrated to learn that something as simple as testing GPS with the SD Card in the phone hasn't been done, then you shouldn't be selling hardware. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
However,.. one must really think why this problem didn't turn out in the factory tests :-( Yes. That is indeed something that must be thought about. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
For something as evocative as this GPS/SD issue, I'd like to see at *least* daily updates posted to an official website or blog (not wiki). Its really pretty important that the communication on this issue *not* diverge into hate and vitriol towards customers, because to those who are observing the OpenMoko project - not participating - the SD+GPS testing issue is a *huge* screw up. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 To say the true I never saw a firm to admit the problem and to start to work for a fix in 11h! Steven Kurylo wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 3:33 PM, Hugo Mills [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 04:50:50PM -0500, Robert Horton wrote: Thanks for all this fast testing and great work. I was worried when there was silence. I suspect that a large chunk of the silence was down to the fact that the OpenMoko people are in California, so they wouldn't have got to work until 6pm EST... Also note that the first email showing it was the SD card is only 11 hours old. If you ask me, thats some pretty fantastic turn around time. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkh9lkIACgkQSIAU/I6SkT2QEgCfUJcyUVYThoAfhJ6H/JDH+sfK qu8An2Haoz2uTeQlvM2bpkJx3kZmu+n9 =HVnd -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 09:22 +0800, Wolfgang Spraul wrote: Alejandro - This issue does not look good. Is there someone in Openmoko or FIC aware of it? Aware of it? You must be kidding. Dear Wolfgang, there remains one question that the community has to you and it is even more important than the question why this was not caught in factory testing: From all the Openmoko employees nobody has realized that the GPS is broken. Why have you not used the phone yourselves? Why are you abusing the community in such a shameless way? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Jay Vaughan wrote: For something as evocative as this GPS/SD issue, I'd like to see at *least* daily updates posted to an official website or blog (not wiki). Its really pretty important that the communication on this issue *not* diverge into hate and vitriol towards customers, because to those who are observing the OpenMoko project - not participating - the SD+GPS testing issue is a *huge* screw up. No, the SD+GPS issue is a bug. Admittedly a somewhat nasty bug, but nothing extraordinary. The Debian key generation vulnerability was a *huge* screw up. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
To say the true I never saw a firm to admit the problem and to start to work for a fix in 11h! Please do not ignore the fact that GPS has been complained about for months. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Its really pretty important that the communication on this issue *not* diverge into hate and vitriol towards customers, because to those who are observing the OpenMoko project - not participating - the SD+GPS testing issue is a *huge* screw up. No, the SD+GPS issue is a bug. Context:SD+Glamo == No go. SD+GPS == No go. How many GTA02's have been shipped before this problem was discovered? How much time wasted trying to get GPS functioning so that development can continue? Admittedly a somewhat nasty bug, but nothing extraordinary. If I can't use SD+GPS, its a no-brainer: Freerunner is no longer qualified for my project. Having spent a year on OpenMoko, thats nasty. I was willing to give the SD+Glamo issue a slide, but .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Marcus, Why have you not used the phone yourselves? We are using it. Why are you abusing the community in such a shameless way? We don't. We are just working as hard and smart as we can. A pretty awesome group of people actually, and obviously our community (including critical people like you) are included! If you think it's not good enough for you, please let us know what better place you find, we are very willing to learn. On the GPS bug, expect an update before the end of the week. Wolfgang On Jul 16, 2008, at 2:34 PM, Marcus Bauer wrote: On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 09:22 +0800, Wolfgang Spraul wrote: Alejandro - This issue does not look good. Is there someone in Openmoko or FIC aware of it? Aware of it? You must be kidding. Dear Wolfgang, there remains one question that the community has to you and it is even more important than the question why this was not caught in factory testing: From all the Openmoko employees nobody has realized that the GPS is broken. Why have you not used the phone yourselves? Why are you abusing the community in such a shameless way? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Jay Vaughan wrote: Its really pretty important that the communication on this issue *not* diverge into hate and vitriol towards customers, because to those who are observing the OpenMoko project - not participating - the SD+GPS testing issue is a *huge* screw up. No, the SD+GPS issue is a bug. Context:SD+Glamo == No go. SD+GPS == No go. How many GTA02's have been shipped before this problem was discovered? How much time wasted trying to get GPS functioning so that development can continue? Haha, compared to how many products has a big phone company shipped before fixing their hw bugs?, a neglible amount, and those to HC fans and supporters that know they are beta testers. Admittedly a somewhat nasty bug, but nothing extraordinary. If I can't use SD+GPS, its a no-brainer: Freerunner is no longer qualified for my project. Having spent a year on OpenMoko, thats nasty. I was willing to give the SD+Glamo issue a slide, but .. Well, then it's a big issue for you, which of course is crappy. But that's just it, it's a huge issue for *you*. In the grand scheme of things it's a bug, and a bug Joerg has told us to be patient about, and one where there will be a fix for. I'd just wait for the sw + hw fixes, and see what the result is. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Christoph Anton Mitterer a écrit : On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 00:37 +0200, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: This GPS problem shows a lot about the community vs openmoko. Some try to help (developers?) Some complain (regular users?) A lot of regular users are not complaining... Although they patiently wait for an answer =) (I didn't know there were regular users among openmoko users) - -- Christophe Badoit -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIfaI6ynEdw4rmTRkRAljsAJ9UCmgfCsqsWGVYUrSpgj1IvPpMLQCdG3q1 04jCeT9A3/CNfpDEBguyEAc= =/kOY -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Did openmoko said that they will not gonna solve this?, I have only eared that they are studying the BEST way to solve this, so please don't FUD about totally false no go. Even the sd+glamo is not bloking to have some more better graphics than mobile media (not awesome but decent at last) Please be more gently with people that are doing their best to let you know this kind of bugs, the process to resolve it and finally the resolution they will decide more transparently than any hardware factory has never done. Regards PD.-OM hardware team, When our neos arrive at Bacelona count with us to any test you need to be done --- El mié, 16/7/08, Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: De: Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Asunto: Re: Reason for GPS problems found! Para: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Fecha: miércoles, 16 julio, 2008 8:50 Its really pretty important that the communication on this issue *not* diverge into hate and vitriol towards customers, because to those who are observing the OpenMoko project - not participating - the SD+GPS testing issue is a *huge* screw up. No, the SD+GPS issue is a bug. Context:SD+Glamo == No go. SD+GPS == No go. How many GTA02's have been shipped before this problem was discovered? How much time wasted trying to get GPS functioning so that development can continue? Admittedly a somewhat nasty bug, but nothing extraordinary. If I can't use SD+GPS, its a no-brainer: Freerunner is no longer qualified for my project. Having spent a year on OpenMoko, thats nasty. I was willing to give the SD+Glamo issue a slide, but .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community __ Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! La bandeja de entrada más inteligente. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 12:01 AM, Wolfgang Spraul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On the GPS bug, expect an update before the end of the week. Unfortunately, this seems like a case where OpenMoko's openness is really hurting it. A closed company probably would have waited to publicly acknowledge the defect until it was fully researched, not just after it was casually confirmed by a couple developers. Perhaps, the closed company would have even waited to acknowledge the defect until a fix was available, instead of sending out status updates as they investigated it and tried potential fixes. From reading between the lines on some of the e-mails from OpenMoko staff, it seems that the interference with the GPS receiver was caused (at least in part) by the SD reader being always-on, apparently because the SD firmware is still incomplete or in beta, much like the rest of the OpenMoko firmware. The fix appears to be to enhance the SD reader to only turn on when necessary. From where I sit, that's a two-fer! GPS gets fixed and the SD reader gets enhanced to a more complete state. I'm happy :) Andrew --- Andrew Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Marcus Bauer wrote: On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 08:45 +0200, Kalle Happonen wrote: Its really pretty important that the communication on this issue *not* diverge into hate and vitriol towards customers, because to those who are observing the OpenMoko project - not participating - the SD+GPS testing issue is a *huge* screw up. No, the SD+GPS issue is a bug. Admittedly a somewhat nasty bug, but nothing extraordinary. The Debian key generation vulnerability was a *huge* screw up. I don't follow your view. The Debian ssh bug was all but obvious. That's why it went for a long time unnoticed. Not being obvious doesn't mean it isn't a huge screw up. Small things can mean huge implications. The Debian bug immideately cut the foundation of a huge amount of security that relies on this, worldwide and in critical applications. Keys are expected to be practically uncrackable, and a *lot* is built on this assumption, so correct key generations should be a no-brainer (20-20 hindsight, I admit). So the debian bug was a huge screw up, but luckily I think it was fixed with a bad scare in most cases. However, the GPS is a basic feature and its malfunctioning is very obvious. If you buy a new car and the engine doesn't run you'll wonder if anybody ever drove around with it. Well, if you buy a beta first customer release car and the gps isn't working when you play a cd, You might think crap! well luckily they promised a fix in the end of the week, in time for the weekend trip to my parents. The same goes for making phone calls: there is quite often a buzzing sound on the far end and it can be really bad. Unless you don't care about the people you are calling the Neo is not usable as your daily phone. This IMHO is a much bigger problem, which has caught much less attention. Then there are the phones with a GSM modem that constantly re-registers. And there is still no word about which headsets are usable with the Neo. Don't mix up freedom with broken hardware! Don't mix first release beta phones with big-company market ready devices (which sometimes are market ready themselves, even with a lot more resources). I think this is just a bit bigger case of the whole gta02v5 vs gta02v6 led issue, that when quickly resolved actually was forgotten and even the word issue is too strong. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Including users in development (was: Reason for GPS problems found!)
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 12:37:15AM -0700, Andrew Bennett wrote: On the GPS bug, expect an update before the end of the week. Unfortunately, this seems like a case where OpenMoko's openness is really hurting it. I disagree. I think it's great that we can see what goes on under the hood, and not just see, but contribute. As far as I am concerned, that will produce a stronger company than any closed process ever could. The 'closed company' philosophy tends to devolve into an 'us vs them' fight, where 'them' is not only the competition, but also the users themselves. When a company allows its products' users to become part of the very ecosystem that develops those products, it not only suddenly has access to more eyeballs to help out with problems such as this one, but builds a stronger sense of community and inclusion than a closed company could ever hope for. Regards, Msquared... PS: Do some reading on sociocratic methods, if you're interested in awesome ways to build community... http://www.sociocracy.info/ http://www.sociocratie.nl/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Hi Jay- Jay Vaughan ??: To say the true I never saw a firm to admit the problem and to start to work for a fix in 11h! Please do not ignore the fact that GPS has been complained about for months. I think this main reason is our test environment is badly synced (factory/lab/developers/test software). For my GTA02 it's GPS always fixed around 1 minutes, and my SD card was format into vfat + ext2 format for other testing, so could not used as normal SD card stay at boot, so most of time won't have SD card in while doing GPS testing. We did also have big fight internal over last week for about test specification and why GPS when wrong in field. And we still working on possible hardware improvement and software solutions. Please check Andy's branch for SD clk, in kernel list there are more explanation at http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-July/003837.html Tony Tu ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
I also believe the GPS is a core feature of the phone and one area I am slightly disappointed in is the testing. For example, there are some experienced users of GPS here and some who have used GPS on the 1973 since it became usable. Were prototype Freerunners sent out to these people? If so how many and what response was given back from their testing? I remember seeing a prototype Freerunner at an event in London and asked about the GPS performance but it was not something the developer had tried due to other developer commitments. I think this type of bug could have been spotted by user tests before mass production. Okay it may not have identified the cause but it would have confirmed something was up with the GPS before mass production. John. 2008/7/16 Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [snip] However, the GPS is a basic feature and its malfunctioning is very obvious. If you buy a new car and the engine doesn't run you'll wonder if anybody ever drove around with it. [snip] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Wow, Jay. I think it may be time to step away from the computer and calm down. Okay, I've done this. There may be a complete fix for this within a few days, so there's little reason to write antagonistic messages to the very people who are working hard to fix this. Its really important that the hardware-testing faults get addressed on this issue. Especially if I'm about to order 20 of these things, and then suffer a lynching because I didn't tell everyone involved that OM have faulty test procedures .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
2008/7/16 Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Did you consider the public image that's being created by a statement like Ah well, this seems not to work. So the brick is useless for me. Damn the day I bought it If you can't understand why people would be frustrated to learn that something as simple as testing GPS with the SD Card in the phone hasn't been done, then you shouldn't be selling hardware. It's not that the frustration wouldn't be understood, it's that creating negative atmosphere in public is not productive in any way, just the opposite. It does zero good for fixing the bug or for the community. So, why complain then? It's not about silencing the (most) frustrated people, I'm frustrated too but I know it does not encourage positive co-operation on fixing problems to complain aloud about everything. So please consider why some people have crafted posts trying to ensure Openmoko people that most people appreciate the work being done etc., even though they themselves would have been hit badly by the problem too. I don't think it helps either to make sure one's rights are listened to - I think one reason people might complain is that they simply want to create noise so that Openmoko knows it's important. Please, show a little more respect and trust for them - they will do anything they can anyway (why wouldn't they?). And even if there's time for complaining and demanding, possibly in private, the time is not now since the issue and all possible solutions are not known. So, if it's not productive (or positive), please try to restrain yourself from posting (there have been enough complains already). -Timo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
From all the Openmoko employees nobody has realized that the GPS is broken. Why have you not used the phone yourselves? Why are you abusing the community in such a shameless way? would you please be less insulting! those personal abuses, not at least by jay in regard to joerg are not helping in any way, but adding useless noise to the list. and if you would care to read the archives you would have found that wolfgang a while ago posted that in fact he and several others of om _do_ use the freerunner as daily phone! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
2008/7/15 Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The good news: *IF* all pans out, there's (or soon will be) a new kernel at Andy branch that stops SD-card clock when SDcard is idle. We hope this will almost cure the problem, at least reduce it to sth like you can't GPS while watching video from SD or the like (hope you can cope with that ;). This will still be a problem for those GPS applications loading big maps from SD, I assume. We're about to verify a hw-fix so you could even watch video and still have GPS positioning during that. So let's hope that this is a simple fix. Regards Jeff ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:56 AM, Timo Jyrinki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, if it's not productive (or positive), please try to restrain yourself from posting (there have been enough complains already). I was expressing sad tone along with the other fellow, instead of complaining. I think that (and not harsher shouts/demands/insults) would be appropriate. Otherwise, imagine, fellows do keep on confirming this bug [would happen with any other issue, too] -- this _is_ a lack of functionality, -- but you receive no emails with `please, fix it, I won't be able to work in the direction I have dedicated/bought FR for that 75%' or so. In such case, OM won't be able to prioritize things to fix first, defer others, if you will silent the people from saying, `yes, this is the problem I want it to be fixed, as it dumps 50% of my intended phone's usage'. This case was obvious enough being critical, but there may be other non-so-critical-from-the-first-glance issues. You don't have a knowledge base for every possible future use/combinations of FR, this is endless, and might be influenced by any HW/SW quirk. And even in this GSP+µSD case it would have been pretty strange to see people not asking for a fix for this, just because they have been silenced. And people don't read the 100-mail threads, they'll just subscribe and complain.. -- Simonas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Timo Jyrinki wrote, On 16/07/08 09:56: I don't think it helps either to make sure one's rights are listened to - I think one reason people might complain is that they simply want to create noise so that Openmoko knows it's important. Please, show a little more respect and trust for them - they will do anything they can anyway (why wouldn't they?). And even if there's time for complaining and demanding, possibly in private, the time is not now since the issue and all possible solutions are not known. So, if it's not productive (or positive), please try to restrain yourself from posting (there have been enough complains already). Agreed. -- Alex. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
On Wednesday 16 July 2008, Jeffrey Ratcliffe wrote: 2008/7/15 Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The good news: *IF* all pans out, there's (or soon will be) a new kernel at Andy branch that stops SD-card clock when SDcard is idle. We hope this will almost cure the problem, at least reduce it to sth like you can't GPS while watching video from SD or the like (hope you can cope with that ;). This will still be a problem for those GPS applications loading big maps from SD, I assume. Only if the GPS app is trying to read maps from SD during the time the GPS is getting the initial fix. Once we have the fix the required signal level is lower, so even with the SD enabled the GPS holds a fix better than my Garmin Geko. Sounds like an easy one to work around to me. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jeffrey Ratcliffe a écrit : 2008/7/15 Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The good news: *IF* all pans out, there's (or soon will be) a new kernel at Andy branch that stops SD-card clock when SDcard is idle. We hope this will almost cure the problem, at least reduce it to sth like you can't GPS while watching video from SD or the like (hope you can cope with that ;). This will still be a problem for those GPS applications loading big maps from SD, I assume. Well, once the GPS is fixed, with the sdcard in slot, it keeps doing a good job in most cases. I know that the signal is stronger without the SD, but, for me, the *real* impact was on the TTFF. So, I suppose loading some maps from the SD once the fix is done, should not be a probleme (I hope :) - -- Christophe Badoit -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD4DBQFIfcb6ynEdw4rmTRkRAjegAJ0eHdGE7hsKUaEn2frQWRruzLesgwCYnBVv QC0ddv5EzmMIYaV81ITPmA== =2e/U -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
This will still be a problem for those GPS applications loading big maps from SD, I assume. Only if the GPS app is trying to read maps from SD during the time the GPS is getting the initial fix. Once we have the fix the required signal level is lower, so even with the SD enabled the GPS holds a fix better than my Garmin Geko. Sounds like an easy one to work around to me. well, or an intelligent caching algorithm: the fr knows where you are, how fast and in which direction moving, so it might calculate the most probable map tiles and load them from sd in small chunks. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Am Mi 16. Juli 2008 schrieb Jay Vaughan: Its really pretty important that the communication on this issue *not* diverge into hate and vitriol towards customers, because to those who are observing the OpenMoko project - not participating - the SD+GPS testing issue is a *huge* screw up. No, the SD+GPS issue is a bug. Context:SD+Glamo == No go. SD+GPS == No go. How many GTA02's have been shipped before this problem was discovered? How much time wasted trying to get GPS functioning so that development can continue? Sorry? What's your point here? Admittedly a somewhat nasty bug, but nothing extraordinary. If I can't use SD+GPS, its a no-brainer: Freerunner is no longer qualified for my project. Having spent a year on OpenMoko, thats nasty. I was willing to give the SD+Glamo issue a slide, but .. We understand this pretty good. but please, pretty please could you write posts like yours above with a somewhat more explicit lettering, like **IF** I can't... Chances are all your rant is moot. There is a solution at horizon. your post sounds like OM has betrayed on you. In fact we are very busy to fix things, and we think we *will* get them fixed. This is developer release. Stay tuned for instruction to fix. /jOERG signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
On 2008-07-16, Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its really pretty important that the communication on this issue *not* diverge into hate and vitriol towards customers, because to those who are observing the OpenMoko project - not participating - the SD+GPS testing issue is a *huge* screw up. No, the SD+GPS issue is a bug. Context:SD+Glamo == No go. SD+GPS == No go. How many GTA02's have been shipped before this problem was discovered? How much time wasted trying to get GPS functioning so that development can continue? Admittedly a somewhat nasty bug, but nothing extraordinary. If I can't use SD+GPS, its a no-brainer: Freerunner is no longer qualified for my project. Having spent a year on OpenMoko, thats nasty. I was willing to give the SD+Glamo issue a slide, but .. It is ok that you think this way, but please don't post messages like this on the list now. I do not care if you think it is a no go or not. Complaining does not help to solve any problems. Be positive:) Also, SD+GPS will be possible. They are almost finished with the kernel patch:) Openmoko is damn lucky this problem can (allegedly) be solved by SW, otherwise everyone would have a good right to complain, even return the HW. But a big thumbs up to the communitymember that found the cause, and also a big thumbs up to the engineers working out a solution so quickly! Sander ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Am Mi 16. Juli 2008 schrieb Kalle Happonen: Marcus Bauer wrote: The same goes for making phone calls: there is quite often a buzzing sound on the far end and it can be really bad. Unless you don't care about the people you are calling the Neo is not usable as your daily phone. This IMHO is a much bigger problem, which has caught much less attention. *not* on developer side. We're on it. Alas that's a much more tricky one. See my previous posts on this particular topic, all across the lists. /j signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Am Mi 16. Juli 2008 schrieb Jay Vaughan: However,.. one must really think why this problem didn't turn out in the factory tests :-( Yes. That is indeed something that must be thought about. ; -- Jay Vaughan Tony Tu already posted a response to this: Our factory tests can't be done under real live situation, we have to create an 'artificial' GPS signal to test. Our tests with this artificial signal didn't show any issue, even when tested with uSD inserted, which was one of the tests. Please note: Even out in the wild there have been reports of decent fixtime with uSD *inserted*. So this is a +-3dB issue, where we didn't recognise our tests at fab were *a little* 'overoptimistic' with regard to real live. This has been addressed by our production engineers last week and already should be fixed by now. /jOERG signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
