RE:What will be in GTA03?
On Mon, 2008-08-11 at 15:15 +0200, Joachim Steiger wrote: Pritam, Ghanghas (IE10) wrote: Hi All I had put this wish list once but no one considered that I guess. Is it that stupid? At least give your review guys. OMAP3530 http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/omap3530.html nice chip.. basically.. but see this thread: http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?showtopic=42144 and try to find any specs or documentation about the included powerVR SGX530... have fun... its closed. in short: the whole 2d/3d accel in that chip would currently be useless for us. openmoko took opensource serious till now, pushing boundaries further where we could. we want debuggable architectures. means no binary drivers on the app cpu for anything for sure. not in userspace, and for sure not in the kernel. I've got a beagle board with debian running on it now, i'll test the video output when im back to germany. Judgeing what i've seen at LinuxTag, the 2D performance is great even on 1280x720 (they had no accelerated X running). So using the OMAP3530 and leaving the 3D stuff unused seems to be an option. Jan I didnt get it clearly. Is user space binary also disallowed here. If it is allowed i think there is hope. I found this on beagleboard's google group discussion From: Jason Kridner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:14:14 -0700 (PDT) Local: Fri, Aug 1 2008 1:14 am Subject: Re: PowerVR drivers Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author I expect the drivers to be publicly available by the end of the year. Only the kernel portions will be open source. The PowerVR folks will provide binary user-space libraries. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What will be in GTA03?
On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 11:45 +0200, Michele Renda wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hendrik Strydom wrote: My wish list: 3G, or at least UMTS 3g != UMTS ? (I thing you wanted to say EDGE :) No. Simplistically seen from an Australian perspective UMTS allows download speeds up to 384Kb, and 3G allows speeds with a current upper limit of about 7MB and a current infrastructure limitation of about 14MB, depending on the provider. I have never seen a connection at this speed, but download speed in the 1MB to 3MB range is not uncommon. As far as I can establish EDGE is only used by the local '3' service provider, but they seem to use non-standard SIMS, which do not work in all phones, so it would be an unattractive option locally. More importantly data on UMTS/2.5G/3G is charged per Kb, whereas GPRS is normally charged in terms of time spent, which makes it very unattractive. Vodafone for instance offers 5GB of mobile data for $49 (AU) per month, but happily charges $1 per minute for GPRS, where it is hard to beat 5Kb download speeds. To further complicate matters our providers cover quad band between them. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What could be done to improve the OM development process?
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 12:05 AM, Jeffery Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Instead of working on multiple concurrent software distributions, why not try to rally everyone under one banner for a while? Just my cheap comment on this : I feel less and less like there's multiple concurrent software distributions. There was the gsmd-based stack, but it doesn't look like OM is working on it. ASU and FSO looks more and more like two parts of the same thing to me : ASU has some very interesting EFL apps (beside phone apps), and FSO's phone app (zhone) is based on EFL too. So the future merge of the two branches (or half-branches, if I'm right) shouldn't be that hard nor hypothetical. My 2 cents. -- Olivier M. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Om2008.8 comments and questions
Le Wednesday, 13. August 2008 01:30:55 Jeremiah Flerchinger, vous avez écrit : On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 17:13 -0400, Helmut Tessarek wrote: Alright then. What format has the addressbook? A .vcf importer cannot be that hard to develop. It does not even have to be a GUI app. I'm not sure if it would be worth the effort to work on this just for 2008.8. One of the phase 2 subsystems for FSO is a PIM manager that should handle this, although I don't think much work has been done on it yet. Maybe working on this for FSO and rolling it into 2008.8 would make more sense. So is FSO actually trying to solve problems that have been solved a long time ago in Qtopia? That's one thing I still don't got yet, I see a lot of NIH syndrome in OM. Sure the Qtopia stack is far from perfect, but it is some 4 to 6 years more advanced and stable than ASU, FSO or 2007.2. The reason for the slow progress here is that everyone wants to do anything with a _simple phone_ apart from just using it as a smartphone with extras. People want some sort of desktop-distribution, it shall be able to run GTK, Qt, EFL and Java apps, not to forget all scripting-languages on earth (my beloved Python, ...). To me this is all nonsense because none really works after all this time that OM started (not to mention the integration efforts). My suggestions: Flash the recent Qtopia image onto your phone, browse Qtopia.net for useful applications, fetch the SDK there and start developing for a mature, stable platform. Or keep hunting for promises. Just my 2 cents. -- Sascha Peilicke ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any progress on the white screen of death problem?
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 12:58:10AM +0200, Holger Freyther wrote: On Tuesday 12 August 2008 22:02:08 Florian Lohoff wrote: It seems the new kernel needs another epoch bump otherwise opkg will not detect the kernel to be newer so no upgrade here ... [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# opkg list | grep ^kernel kernel - 2:2.6.24+git75940+27fc8d82e365c47065f3a9240bfe21e67a50edf2-r1.01 - Linux 2.6.x (development) kernel for FIC SmartPhones shipping w/ Openmoko Okay, this is coming from OM2008.8. kernel - 2:2.6.24+git33+88bf43840b9df0eb0a077a1394eb564be80a412e-r2 - Linux 2.6.x (development) kernel for FIC SmartPhones shipping w/ Openmoko Where is this coming from? The autobuilder? We have #1809 to take care of that issue. In tonights org.openmoko.asu.dev build the latest stable kernel should be build... In general do not mix feeds and repos, the result is not going to amuse you. So which repo line one should add/replace to be able to upgrade to the newer kernel? My simple approach was to add the daily feed from the buildhost which was the obvious thing to do when beeing 12 years of an debian addict ... Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-171-2280134 Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Om2008.8 comments and questions
Hi Wolfgang, I read the Software Testing Report from Wendy. I like this report because it synchronizes the customer with the engineers. Why not add the test case: Convert contacts from the old Address Book to the New Address Book. So, next time Helmut is able to convert his address book from an old version to the current version. Best Regards, Peter -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wolfgang Spraul Sent: Mittwoch, 13. August 2008 02:30 To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Om2008.8 comments and questions Dear Helmut, your priorities are our priorities _BUT_ it will still take quite a while, yes. From what you write, you seem to be indeed the perfect customer we are focusing our efforts on. You have a Linux system on your desktop or notebook already, you are looking for a phone that works well with it. At the beginning, you want to use the phone only for 'basic' phone usage. How to get there? Well, I see a lot of development momentum building now, our ca. 20 internal software engineers don't actually make that big of a difference. Great low-level patches are coming already, we are now trying to straighten up the build system to something more like Debian with stable/testing/unstable. We are not developing a proprietary system and have no interest in doing so. Compatibility with Ubuntu and other distributions is very important. I understand your frustration about importing contacts and alarms, thanks for the reminder, and rest assured that these things are indeed very high on our priority list, right after making phone calls and SMS. Keep us honest if things don't improve fast enough! Best Regards, Wolfgang On Aug 13, 2008, at 1:55 AM, Helmut Tessarek wrote: Hi Openmoko cummunity (and developmen team), I'm a little bit concerned about how priorities are set and handled and would like to read your opinion. 2 weeks ago I got my Neo Freerunner with Om2007. I was able to get it up and running, even importing my contacts from my old phone wasn't really an issue. WiFi worked ok too. Then I flashed my phone with Om2008.8. Call me oldfashioned, but I'm one of the guys who wants to use his phone for the reason it was actually built in the first place: making phone calls. I expect only 3 things from a phone (which are the most basic things a phone should be able to accomplish): 1) making and receiving calls 2) managing contacts 3) alarm function I will go in more detail regarding these 3 points in a moment. I know that the phone has overwhelming features and I would like to see them in action, but first I should be able to use it as a phone. I don't care about GPS, games or a graphical installer right now. ad 2) I was not able to migrate my phonebook from om2007 to om2008. I had a backup from my home dir and I had the .vcf files on my sd card. Well, entering my 500 contacts is not an option. The keyboard is more or less useless, since it takes at least 'number of character' times 2 seconds to enter a word, which cannot be guessed by the keyboard 'logic'. What about sending contacts via Bluetooth? What about importing vcf files? ad 3) this does not work either. sometimes I can see an alarm icon, but no alarm tone. hmmm, not much of an alarm then. These are basic functions which do not work and people are talking about GTA03, cameras, GPS mapping functions. I don't get it. First of all the phone should be able to do at least things that a 50$ phone can do. I bought the openmoko phone, because I'm using Linux and I thought that it would be easier to sync contact and calendar data with my workstation. I was definitely wrong. The data is not even compatible between Om releases. Furthermore it seems to me that a propriatary system is developed which makes it even harder to communicate with standard Linux distros. In that case I could have bought the iPhone as well. At least that phone works. As long as the priorities are not focused on basic features as I described above, this phone will not be useable for quite a while. Regards, Helmut ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What could be done to improve the OM development process?
Am Mittwoch 13 August 2008 09:24:46 schrieb Olivier Migeot: On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 12:05 AM, Jeffery Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Instead of working on multiple concurrent software distributions, why not try to rally everyone under one banner for a while? Just my cheap comment on this : I feel less and less like there's multiple concurrent software distributions. There was the gsmd-based stack, but it doesn't look like OM is working on it. ASU and FSO looks more and more like two parts of the same thing to me : ASU has some very interesting EFL apps (beside phone apps), and FSO's phone app (zhone) is based on EFL too. So the future merge of the two branches (or half-branches, if I'm right) shouldn't be that hard nor hypothetical. FSO is about the framework. It's _not_ a second distribution worked on by the Openmoko team. It rather exposes the framework-level work with some example code. Here are the only reasons FSO exists as an image and not just as a couple of ipks: a) Middleware is invisible. b) Defining APIs without working on an API consumer seldomly lead to something good. I was afraid all this confusion would arise, that's why I (thought I) made it clear enough on the framework wiki page and the blogs. Trust me, to avoid it, for a while I really considered shipping a console-image for the framework image, forcing people to ssh into to start getting familiar with the dbus services... -- :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Om2008.8 comments and questions
Am Mittwoch 13 August 2008 09:27:06 schrieb Sascha Peilicke: Le Wednesday, 13. August 2008 01:30:55 Jeremiah Flerchinger, vous avez écrit : On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 17:13 -0400, Helmut Tessarek wrote: Alright then. What format has the addressbook? A .vcf importer cannot be that hard to develop. It does not even have to be a GUI app. I'm not sure if it would be worth the effort to work on this just for 2008.8. One of the phase 2 subsystems for FSO is a PIM manager that should handle this, although I don't think much work has been done on it yet. Maybe working on this for FSO and rolling it into 2008.8 would make more sense. So is FSO actually trying to solve problems that have been solved a long time ago in Qtopia? No. FSO solves other problems, i.e. exposing mobile system services in a toolkit and library independent way over the de-facto IPC standard on Linux. -- :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia issues with 4.3.2-080808
On Wednesday 13 August 2008 04:08:39 Lorn Potter wrote: 2. Also, speaker phone doesn't work, it just emits a loud constant beep when in speaker phone mode. It needs a fixed/working speakerphone alsa state. Same thing probably happens with other gui's as well. I said the same but actually the speakerphone is fine and we need to disable the sidetone in the modem. Check my commits to vendor_ficgta01.cpp to see the command. regards z. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What could be done to improve the OM development process?
Trust me, to avoid it, for a while I really considered shipping a console-image for the framework image, forcing people to ssh into to start getting familiar with the dbus services... hum ... personnaly, I use it. I couldn't get my GPRS work on ASU. It works immediatly with FSO and I could phone while GPRS is on. So please, if you do this, build also the wm and allowing us to install it ... Or do I have to give another try to 2008.8 ? My previous one wasn't successful ... Mike Michael 'Mickey' Lauer a écrit : Am Mittwoch 13 August 2008 09:24:46 schrieb Olivier Migeot: On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 12:05 AM, Jeffery Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Instead of working on multiple concurrent software distributions, why not try to rally everyone under one banner for a while? Just my cheap comment on this : I feel less and less like there's multiple concurrent software distributions. There was the gsmd-based stack, but it doesn't look like OM is working on it. ASU and FSO looks more and more like two parts of the same thing to me : ASU has some very interesting EFL apps (beside phone apps), and FSO's phone app (zhone) is based on EFL too. So the future merge of the two branches (or half-branches, if I'm right) shouldn't be that hard nor hypothetical. FSO is about the framework. It's _not_ a second distribution worked on by the Openmoko team. It rather exposes the framework-level work with some example code. Here are the only reasons FSO exists as an image and not just as a couple of ipks: a) Middleware is invisible. b) Defining APIs without working on an API consumer seldomly lead to something good. I was afraid all this confusion would arise, that's why I (thought I) made it clear enough on the framework wiki page and the blogs. Trust me, to avoid it, for a while I really considered shipping a console-image for the framework image, forcing people to ssh into to start getting familiar with the dbus services... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
(NAND) boot problems with empty batteries ?
Hi, when my gta02v5 battery is completely empty I have two problems booting again at all: 1) NAND u-boot does not work: after connecting AC charger I can start only NOR boot (aux button first), but the NAND boot (no aux button, only pwr button for 10+ seconds just does nothing, the aux button doesn't blink then either). removing power and battery for some 10 seconds doesn't help. just charging 10 minutes (using AC charger) before trying [nand] boot doesn't help right now either. update (I write this email because right now I'm that out of power mode again:-( after 10+ minutes connection to AC charger (still powered off) I can't even get into the NOR boot anymore. I removed the battery and AC, reconnected both and NOR boot came up. here I selected power off and tried to do a regular NAND boot (no aux) -- doesn't react. now NOR boot doesn't work either. after some waiting (1 min?) NOR boot comes up again, now I selected reboot (is this supposed to re-boot the nand uboot?). the screen got white for ~2 seconds, than black again and that's it:-( what's going wrong here ?? 2) boot process crashes (switches off) with usb power from notebook if I connect the FR to my notebook (Lenovo T61p) for power and once I manage to boot, the boot just crashes after a while (1-2+ minutes), I only have a black screen then and all I can do to boot again (long pwr on). usually in this situation all futher tries to boot won't come up either. I'm not sure if these crashes might be triggered by the notebook having some USB problems (device not accepting address ...) and thus disabling usb power for that port (port 2 disabled by hub (EMI?), re-enabling...) or if that hub-disabling is only a result of the FR already being crashed or switched off during boot. solution in this case: I removed the empty battery, replaced it with the battery of my real (nokia) phone (nokia). then boot works, and while FR is running and connected to the notebook I swap batteries again and charge the empty FR battery. I had this situation(2) at least 3-4 times before using various uboot/kernel/distro versions, I only started using the AC charger yesterday and realized, that it supplies much higher current and charging goes much faster (almost a fator 3 in charging rate!) are these known problems ? how can I get the FR up with empty batteries, how to charge an empty battery ? thanks for any hint or comment, Harald -- I hope to die ___ _ before I *have* to use Microsoft Word., 0--,|/OOO\ Donald E. Knuth, 02-Oct-2001 in Tuebingen._/ / /OOO\ \ \/OOO\ \ O|// \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Harald Koenig // / \\ \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ^ ^ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What could be done to improve the OM development process?
On Wednesday 13 August 2008 00:05:14 Jeffery Davis wrote: 2. Better communication between the development community and the end user community. I have yet to see anyone say they're pleased as punch with the keyboard. When almost everyone is unhappy, closing bugs as 'working as intended' is pigheaded. Hey, as this action is misunderstood a couple of small words. What is the bugtracker for? The way we have used docs.openmoko.org so far is to make it an engineering tool. The assigned/owned tickets tells/informs engineers what to work on, when to get it done (milestone) and how important that is. The benefit of having as precise tasks as possible is that they are small, can be assigned to a single person, one can set the severity and the milestone. After this small task was done, the engineer can set it to in_testing and QA can test that single fix. Now we have bugreports like the SIM PIN Dialog or the Keyboard. No doubt that there is a real issue but they are the exact the opposite of the above workflow. We can not assign a single engineer to take care of them. This means they will never be addressed as no one is responsible and not many people are capable of touching everything that would be needed to resolve the bug. So how to get out of that? Look at the issues presented and file tickets for each single issue. These can be assigned to developers, these can have a milestone set, these can have a severity, these fixes can actually be tested and verified. With my limited resources, internet connectivity (GPRS through the neo), my available time and my main tasks in mind, I have simply no time to create the tickets for each and every issue. So I name the issues I see in the report (and yes the list can be incomplete) and rely on people/interest holders to file a new precise bug report. This is to make it possible for engineers actually being able to do a bugfix which is in the interest of the community... Is that bad faith? How do others see that? your pighead z. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
On Aug 13, 2008, at 7:51 AM, Olivier Berger wrote: steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Then try 2008.9 when it comes Please issue it when it's READY and not on 2008.9.9 at 09:09:09 just for the fun of it. Idea of Open Source projects is to release them before they're ready, to let community work on them as well. BR, Pawel ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia issues with 4.3.2-080808
On Wednesday 13 August 2008, Lorn Potter wrote: Jim Morris wrote: Lorn Potter wrote: 3. I can pair my bluetooth headset, but it won't work with calls. I am able to ring it through the bluetooth dialog, and it does show as an option when I make a call, but if I select it, there is no sound from it. The headset does work with my treo 650, so I know it works. also needs a working alsa state file, then we can see if it is possible to get this to even work. On the 1973, it will never work. Presuming I figure out and create an appropriate alsa state file, (which I am working on and have been for a day now). Where would it go in Qtopia? there seem to be several places where state files are kept, but where exactly does Qtopia get its from? and what naming scheme does it use to get it, or does it not yet automatically get a state file? If the latter where would I go to find where to fix the code so it does get the relevant state file. There isn't one for the Freerunner. But the alsa state files for the Freerunner are /usr/share/openmoko/scenarios Do you mean that on the Freerunner image Qtopia is currently incapable of selecting an alsa state file for using a Bluetooth heaset for GSM even if Jim manages to create such a state file and puts it in /usr/share/openmoko/scenarios? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OpenEinstein Newton emulator - Working?
The OpenEinstein Newton Emulator (http://code.google.com/p/einstein/) work on the Nokia n800, N770 and old Sharp Zauruses - I wonder if anyone has tried compiling it for the Neo1973/FreeRunner - have they? Is there any interest? The large screen seems perfectly suited to a Newton Emulator and the Newton UI really is awesome to behold - just so intuitive! The other reason I'm interested is that it has really good handwriting recognition - which the Freerunner lacks, as far as I know. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ahah: and you released anyway ? - Re: [ Software Testing Report : 2008.08.07 ]
pfff... this rant is pointless. Do you prefer to see unterminated but promising software NOW, or finished, not evolving software in LONG future? buggy software is just a way to non buggy software. At least you can see what is done now. If you don't like it, go back to your iphone/windows vista, and wait for bugs to be corrected without even knowing about them. Moreover you can't say you haven't been warned: Openmoko is a work in progress. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ahah: and you released anyway ? - Re: [ Software Testing Report : 2008.08.07 ]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 This type of comments are the type of comment that I hate most of all. Please let the people to work in peace, and if you want to make an appoint, please make in a constructive way. We all was knowing that OM 2008.8 was in very early development, and no one force you to use it. People like you bring firms to have a close development process. Regards Michele Renda Olivier Berger wrote: Wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear community, here is the QA report which has been created before Om 2008.8 was released. We simply forgot to send this report to a public list because we were too busy with the release preparations. Sorry. SNIP Due to all these critical major bugs, from our testing team point of view: Not stable enough to release our Om 2008.8. The subject says it all. No need for more comments, I guess. Maybe I should have quoted the release announcement email too ! Regards, -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIorE6SIAU/I6SkT0RArtsAJ9ga9+i0vG+Jo8Ke6WcrpBIBBH9IwCgrcv7 wbS2DAkeN67OZifSbq8H9Xk= =guq/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ahah: and you released anyway ? - Re: [ Software Testing Report : 2008.08.07 ]
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 11:54, Sébastien Lorquet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: pfff... this rant is pointless. Do you prefer to see unterminated but promising software NOW, or finished, not evolving software in LONG future? buggy software is just a way to non buggy software. At least you can see what is done now. If you don't like it, go back to your iphone/windows vista, and wait for bugs to be corrected without even knowing about them. Moreover you can't say you haven't been warned: Openmoko is a work in progress. Well of course but I think what he pointed is the misleading 2008.8 release and mail announcement. It looked like it was at least a bit stable. (Not perfect of course) But in fact it was not really more mature than previous ASU available. Looked like ASU was aplha dev, tadaaa here is the final beta 2008.8, finally a real releasable distro But actually I did not find it really more usable than previous ASU (evolutions of course, but not really usable...) Those waiting this release to switch to ASU (not totally mature enough for their use) were disappointed because it did not bring enough stability to justify the switch. And the announcement did not really show that. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [ Software Testing Report : 2008.08.07 ]
Wendy 提到: Dear community, here is the QA report which has been created before Om 2008.8 was released. We simply forgot to send this report to a public list because we were too busy with the release preparations. Sorry. More details about our bugs can be found in our bug tracker [http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/], and also check our wiki page [http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Test_Cases] to understand our work and to contact us. Yes, you can access this report from left site of wiki. Just press TESTING. Brenda Currently we are working on a bugfix release which addresses the major issues you experienced. Stay tuned and thanks for you support, Wendy 主旨: [ Software Testing Report : 2008.08.07 ] 寄件者: Wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] 日期: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:54:41 +0800 收件者 (To): [EMAIL PROTECTED] 收件者 (To): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi All, here are the major bugs from our latest image of Om 2008.8, - Out going call can not really disconnect by End Call if the other one did not pick up the call. - Some of the testing phone can not make phone calls but can receive/send SMS??? (With alert messageno network) - qpe crashed all the time in one of our testing phone. - Two of our phone can not wake up from suspend time. - WiFi can not work (show up unknown all the time) - Can't take GSM signal right away after on the device - [#1661] Unable to send saved tags by entering number (Locations) - [#1635] After x hours the call active will become unstable. Can't receive or make a phone call normally. Due to all these critical major bugs, from our testing team point of view: Not stable enough to release our Om 2008.8. Best Regards, Wendy ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [ Software Testing Report : 2008.08.07 ]
Wendy, I'd really like to be notified when these bugs are fixed, specifically: - Some of the testing phone can not make phone calls but can receive/send SMS??? (With alert messageno network) - Two of our phone can not wake up from suspend time. These are the two major issues which made me go back to 2007.2. Is there a way I can be notified of this? will there be an announcement on the list? Also, while I disagree with the 'aha, and you released anyway' comment and don't necessarily see anything wrong with releasing in an unstable state, I do think that it should have been made clear(er) in the announcement that OM's QA team had said Not stable enough to release our Om 2008.8 I think that the talk of debian style stable/testing/unstable branches is a good idea. Thanks, -Dale Wendy wrote: Dear community, here is the QA report which has been created before Om 2008.8 was released. We simply forgot to send this report to a public list because we were too busy with the release preparations. Sorry. More details about our bugs can be found in our bug tracker [http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/], and also check our wiki page [http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Test_Cases] to understand our work and to contact us. Currently we are working on a bugfix release which addresses the major issues you experienced. Stay tuned and thanks for you support, Wendy Subject: [ Software Testing Report : 2008.08.07 ] From: Wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:54:41 +0800 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi All, here are the major bugs from our latest image of Om 2008.8, - Out going call can not really disconnect by End Call if the other one did not pick up the call. - Some of the testing phone can not make phone calls but can receive/send SMS??? (With alert messageno network) - qpe crashed all the time in one of our testing phone. - Two of our phone can not wake up from suspend time. - WiFi can not work (show up unknown all the time) - Can't take GSM signal right away after on the device - [#1661] Unable to send saved tags by entering number (Locations) - [#1635] After x hours the call active will become unstable. Can't receive or make a phone call normally. Due to all these critical major bugs, from our testing team point of view: Not stable enough to release our Om 2008.8. Best Regards, Wendy ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ahah: and you released anyway ? - Re: [ Software Testing Report : 2008.08.07 ]
It's easy to blame an announcement. Openmoko NEVER said any software realeased as now was 100% ready for daily customer use. When it will become, be sure the announcement and publicity will be far greater than anyone we had up to now. Keeping hope is good, but expecting what was never promised is disappointing, yes. For my part I will always encourage the GREAT team work that comes out from this community/open company association. Keep up the intense work, Openmoko! Sebastien ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ahah: and you released anyway ? - Re: [ Software Testing Report : 2008.08.07 ]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 +1 Sébastien Lorquet wrote: It's easy to blame an announcement. Openmoko NEVER said any software realeased as now was 100% ready for daily customer use. When it will become, be sure the announcement and publicity will be far greater than anyone we had up to now. Keeping hope is good, but expecting what was never promised is disappointing, yes. For my part I will always encourage the GREAT team work that comes out from this community/open company association. Keep up the intense work, Openmoko! Sebastien ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIorfYSIAU/I6SkT0RArHmAJ9MOjV8tYkBvMmfM/uaVEuXWSayDACeNVJ9 IhGGlJUAb0zKsxdLAAQ+azE= =9COa -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
TESTING page of wiki
Dear documentation team and community : The TESTING link of navigation bar on the left wiki, will reorg as test case and test report page. Most bugs reports from community and Openmoko testing team's test report will all put on this page. some major bugs that been found before Om 2008.8 release, will be easy to find on this page. If you are not sure it is a bug or not, you can also use this page to leave a message. Be feel free to use this page. Brenda ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What could be done to improve the OM development process?
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 11:02 +0200, Holger Freyther wrote: On Wednesday 13 August 2008 00:05:14 Jeffery Davis wrote: 2. Better communication between the development community and the end user community. I have yet to see anyone say they're pleased as punch with the keyboard. When almost everyone is unhappy, closing bugs as 'working as intended' is pigheaded. Hey, as this action is misunderstood a couple of small words. What is the bugtracker for? The way we have used docs.openmoko.org so far is to make it an engineering tool. The assigned/owned tickets tells/informs engineers what to work on, when to get it done (milestone) and how important that is. Don't forget the problem reports which are a valuable source of feedback for those developers. So the bugtracker is also for reporting bugs and enhancement wishes. The benefit of having as precise tasks as possible is that they are small, can be assigned to a single person, one can set the severity and the milestone. After this small task was done, the engineer can set it to in_testing and QA can test that single fix. In an ideal world it would something like this. Now we have bugreports like the SIM PIN Dialog or the Keyboard. No doubt that there is a real issue but they are the exact the opposite of the above workflow. We can not assign a single engineer to take care of them. This means they will never be addressed as no one is responsible and not many people are capable of touching everything that would be needed to resolve the bug. So how to get out of that? Look at the issues presented and file tickets for each single issue. These can be assigned to developers, these can have a milestone set, these can have a severity, these fixes can actually be tested and verified. With my limited resources, internet connectivity (GPRS through the neo), my available time and my main tasks in mind, I have simply no time to create the tickets for each and every issue. So I name the issues I see in the report (and yes the list can be incomplete) and rely on people/interest holders to file a new precise bug report. This is to make it possible for engineers actually being able to do a bugfix which is in the interest of the community... Is that bad faith? How do others see that? No, it is just a gap. Users expect that developer understand their concerns (you should know what it in it is broken means) and developer expect that users understand their concerns (they should report e.g. that component X makes wrong assumption and produces a race condition). In between there is a huge gap. While the sentence improve the communication is complete non-sense it indicates at least the helpless- ness how to bridge the gap. In my opinion bridging the gap means translation of the language from the consumer to the engineer. I know only two things that can bridge this gap: - if problem reports are written as reproducable misbehaviour one can report it and developer can reproduce the same thing to find his own words/ the real issue behind it. Then the engineer should translate the ticket (subject) to the real thing - community workers can leverage this manually by trying to understand the customer and having enough knowledge to know how the engineer needs the information in order to be able to work. As this is a boring job you have to be paid for it (hello moko). That is nothing you can expect from people to do in their spare time. It is difficult and I could write pages with all those aspects of community vs. paid workers, product vs. development platform, widget set A vs. widget set B and so on. But it would be even more boring than this mail. So I let it go :) My experience is that working with a ticket system takes a lot of time. Don't take tickets statically. Change them as you would change code when you recognize that it doesn't work. That way a unspecific user complaint could be turned into something valuable. And workarounds are workarounds and they are useful until real issues have been fixed. Regarding the No SIM pin dialog where I was involved the ticket isn't that bad. There is an issue recognized no sim pin dialog while qpe is eating your device. And there is a workaround. So why not open a ticket qpe does not detect media files on the SD card which is blocked by the no sim pin ticket? In the sim pin ticket you can announce the work- around and in the second ticket you can complain about the shitty workaround. But then it is clear. The workaround isn't good and has to be removed as soon as the first issue is solved. In the meantime it does something good. My proposal for the ticket system would be to define rules. As soon as you have a page which describes when a ticket is useful and when it is not you can reject tickets from users pointing to that page. That sounds harsh at first but becomes useful really quick because this is a restriction where the community benefits. The
Re: What could be done to improve the OM development process?
On Wednesday 13 August 2008 00:05:14 Jeffery Davis wrote: 2. Better communication between the development community and the end user community. I have yet to see anyone say they're pleased as punch with the keyboard. When almost everyone is unhappy, closing bugs as 'working as intended' is pigheaded. You shouldn't understand a community as the incarnation of a collective dictatorship. There is still a company that may have other ideas than everybody in the community. That is ok. It is rather that people have problems in understanding the openness in those things. You are not forced by anyone to use the keyboard. You can change it any time. If you don't like much more things you can even fork the whole thing and make like you expect it. No intellectual property hassle, you are free to do it. That sounds like the same dumb answers before? Yes, it reads like a big excuse for everything from the community members. But there is one thing why this is the way to answer such things. Projects like openmoko survive from people that do anything for it. It is starving through simple complaints, tons of enhancement wishes and the public management of sensitivities . So for me it is the ultimate justice that the people that do decide what to do. If a company pays people to do the work that nobody likes to do than everything is perfect :) hmm, there are a lot of cents in my pocket today :) Norbert ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenEinstein Newton emulator - Working?
Who wrote: Is there any interest? The large screen seems perfectly suited to a Newton Emulator and the Newton UI really is awesome to behold - just so intuitive! I always wonder why no one ever tried to build a modern newton like runtime. Not necessarily smalltalk, but maybe OpenStep/GNUStep... Just a thought... *g* -- Drucken Sie diese Mail bitte nur auf Recyclingpapier aus. Please print this mail only on recycled paper. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ahah: and you released anyway ? - Re: [ Software Testing Report : 2008.08.07 ]
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 12:25 +0200, Sébastien Lorquet wrote: It's easy to blame an announcement. +10 Openmoko NEVER said any software realeased as now was 100% ready for daily customer use. I don't think that counts. This no excuse because people automatically expect things. So you don't have to announce it as 100%. You have to do it if it is not 100% to lower expectations and this would have been a good idea if the post about the test results came before the release announcement. Little strategic failure :) So -100 When it will become, be sure the announcement and publicity will be far greater than anyone we had up to now. Keeping hope is good, but expecting what was never promised is disappointing, yes. For my part I will always encourage the GREAT team work that comes out from this community/open company association. Keep up the intense work, Openmoko! +1000 still some cents left Norbert ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What could be done to improve the OM development process?
On Wednesday 13 August 2008 12:34:06 Norbert Hartl wrote: On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 11:02 +0200, Holger Freyther wrote: On Wednesday 13 August 2008 00:05:14 Jeffery Davis wrote: 2. Better communication between the development community and the end user community. I have yet to see anyone say they're pleased as punch with the keyboard. When almost everyone is unhappy, closing bugs as 'working as intended' is pigheaded. Hey, as this action is misunderstood a couple of small words. What is the bugtracker for? The way we have used docs.openmoko.org so far is to make it an engineering tool. The assigned/owned tickets tells/informs engineers what to work on, when to get it done (milestone) and how important that is. Don't forget the problem reports which are a valuable source of feedback for those developers. So the bugtracker is also for reporting bugs and enhancement wishes. The benefit of having as precise tasks as possible is that they are small, can be assigned to a single person, one can set the severity and the milestone. After this small task was done, the engineer can set it to in_testing and QA can test that single fix. In an ideal world it would something like this. Now we have bugreports like the SIM PIN Dialog or the Keyboard. No doubt that there is a real issue but they are the exact the opposite of the above workflow. We can not assign a single engineer to take care of them. This means they will never be addressed as no one is responsible and not many people are capable of touching everything that would be needed to resolve the bug. So how to get out of that? Look at the issues presented and file tickets for each single issue. These can be assigned to developers, these can have a milestone set, these can have a severity, these fixes can actually be tested and verified. With my limited resources, internet connectivity (GPRS through the neo), my available time and my main tasks in mind, I have simply no time to create the tickets for each and every issue. So I name the issues I see in the report (and yes the list can be incomplete) and rely on people/interest holders to file a new precise bug report. This is to make it possible for engineers actually being able to do a bugfix which is in the interest of the community... Is that bad faith? How do others see that? No, it is just a gap. Users expect that developer understand their concerns (you should know what it in it is broken means) and developer expect that users understand their concerns (they should report e.g. that component X makes wrong assumption and produces a race condition). In between there is a huge gap. While the sentence improve the communication is complete non-sense it indicates at least the helpless- ness how to bridge the gap. In my opinion bridging the gap means translation of the language from the consumer to the engineer. I know only two things that can bridge this gap: - if problem reports are written as reproducable misbehaviour one can report it and developer can reproduce the same thing to find his own words/ the real issue behind it. Then the engineer should translate the ticket (subject) to the real thing - community workers can leverage this manually by trying to understand the customer and having enough knowledge to know how the engineer needs the information in order to be able to work. As this is a boring job you have to be paid for it (hello moko). That is nothing you can expect from people to do in their spare time. It is difficult and I could write pages with all those aspects of community vs. paid workers, product vs. development platform, widget set A vs. widget set B and so on. But it would be even more boring than this mail. So I let it go :) My experience is that working with a ticket system takes a lot of time. Don't take tickets statically. Change them as you would change code when you recognize that it doesn't work. That way a unspecific user complaint could be turned into something valuable. And workarounds are workarounds and they are useful until real issues have been fixed. Regarding the No SIM pin dialog where I was involved the ticket isn't that bad. There is an issue recognized no sim pin dialog while qpe is eating your device. And there is a workaround. So why not open a ticket qpe does not detect media files on the SD card which is blocked by the no sim pin ticket? In the sim pin ticket you can announce the work- around and in the second ticket you can complain about the shitty workaround. But then it is clear. The workaround isn't good and has to be removed as soon as the first issue is solved. In the meantime it does something good. My proposal for the ticket system would be to define rules. As soon as you have a page which describes when a ticket is useful and when it is not you can reject tickets from users pointing to that page. That sounds harsh at
Re: Ahah: and you released anyway ? - Re: [ Software Testing Report : 2008.08.07 ]
On Wednesday, 13. August 2008 18:02:35 Michele Renda wrote: People like you bring firms to have a close development process. Following our new trac culture: +1 Marek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [ Software Testing Report : 2008.08.07 ]
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 20:20 +1000, Dale Maggee wrote: Wendy, I'd really like to be notified when these bugs are fixed, specifically: - Some of the testing phone can not make phone calls but can receive/send SMS??? (With alert messageno network) - Two of our phone can not wake up from suspend time. These are the two major issues which made me go back to 2007.2. Is there a way I can be notified of this? will there be an announcement on the list? Also, while I disagree with the 'aha, and you released anyway' comment and don't necessarily see anything wrong with releasing in an unstable state, I do think that it should have been made clear(er) in the announcement that OM's QA team had said Not stable enough to release our Om 2008.8 I think that the talk of debian style stable/testing/unstable branches is a good idea. You can subscribe to the ticket. Just enter your username in the CC field of the ticket and you get a mail when ever the ticket changes. Norbert Thanks, -Dale Wendy wrote: Dear community, here is the QA report which has been created before Om 2008.8 was released. We simply forgot to send this report to a public list because we were too busy with the release preparations. Sorry. More details about our bugs can be found in our bug tracker [http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/], and also check our wiki page [http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Test_Cases] to understand our work and to contact us. Currently we are working on a bugfix release which addresses the major issues you experienced. Stay tuned and thanks for you support, Wendy Subject: [ Software Testing Report : 2008.08.07 ] From: Wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:54:41 +0800 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi All, here are the major bugs from our latest image of Om 2008.8, - Out going call can not really disconnect by End Call if the other one did not pick up the call. - Some of the testing phone can not make phone calls but can receive/send SMS??? (With alert messageno network) - qpe crashed all the time in one of our testing phone. - Two of our phone can not wake up from suspend time. - WiFi can not work (show up unknown all the time) - Can't take GSM signal right away after on the device - [#1661] Unable to send saved tags by entering number (Locations) - [#1635] After x hours the call active will become unstable. Can't receive or make a phone call normally. Due to all these critical major bugs, from our testing team point of view: Not stable enough to release our Om 2008.8. Best Regards, Wendy ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenEinstein Newton emulator - Working?
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 12:52 +0200, Tilman Baumann wrote: Who wrote: Is there any interest? The large screen seems perfectly suited to a Newton Emulator and the Newton UI really is awesome to behold - just so intuitive! I always wonder why no one ever tried to build a modern newton like runtime. Not necessarily smalltalk, but maybe OpenStep/GNUStep... Not necessarily but... :) My plans are to bring squeak/pharo to the device. In squeak there is a handwriting recognition called genie. I doubt the performance will be good enough but it is worth testing. Norbert ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
IDA Systems Freerunner sales update
Two announcements re Freerunner sales in from IDA Systems. 1) We are getting a few (20) Debug boards with our next shipment. If you are in India and would like to order one please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] The final Price will be announced on our website but expect it to be priced around/above INR 8000/- because of the higher customs duty and CST/VAT as compared to a mobile phone. 2) We have standardised our International shipping system and price. We are not going to be shipping to Europe and America as they already have Openmoko Distributors. International Orders (To Asia, Africa and Australia only) are now possible - Price EURO 325.00 plus Euro 30 for Shipping by DHL/UPS.Payment only through direct bank transfer, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]for more details. Regards, Rakshat www.idasystems.net -- -- Please use Firefox as your web browser. Its protects you from spyware and is also a very feature rich browser. www.firefox.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenEinstein Newton emulator - Working?
Norbert Hartl wrote: On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 12:52 +0200, Tilman Baumann wrote: Who wrote: Is there any interest? The large screen seems perfectly suited to a Newton Emulator and the Newton UI really is awesome to behold - just so intuitive! I always wonder why no one ever tried to build a modern newton like runtime. Not necessarily smalltalk, but maybe OpenStep/GNUStep... Not necessarily but... :) My plans are to bring squeak/pharo to the device. In squeak there is a handwriting recognition called genie. I doubt the performance will be good enough but it is worth testing. Keep us updated. ;) -- Drucken Sie diese Mail bitte nur auf Recyclingpapier aus. Please print this mail only on recycled paper. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
where can i find the openmoko-contacts2 app source?
hi all: i cann't find it in the svn repository, or it hasn't released yet, could anybody help me? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on theFreerunner?
Le mer 13/08/08 07:51, Olivier Berger [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit: Please issue it when it's READY and not on 2008.9.9 at 09:09:09 just for the fun of it. It depends on expectations, all respectable; some people are also interested in providing feedback for alpha releases. And it is good : I feared at a moment that the OM community could just be exclusively a community of consumers. So why not a next _alpha_ release on 2008.09.10 at 11:12:13 :-) Gilles ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: IDA Systems Freerunner sales update
Hi Rakshat, Your Products are very nice but you don't have creditcard payment method. We can't blindly drop cash in your account. And other payment methods take long time. Remember that your are in India not in USA. If you are ready to provide cash on delivery (Hyderabad,Andhra Pradesh) or creditcard i am ready to buy 2 Debug Boards and 2 Openmoko handsets. Contact me if you are interested +919000336668 Regards, Abimanyu G. On Wednesday 13 August 2008 4:40:40 pm rakshat hooja wrote: Two announcements re Freerunner sales in from IDA Systems. 1) We are getting a few (20) Debug boards with our next shipment. If you are in India and would like to order one please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] The final Price will be announced on our website but expect it to be priced around/above INR 8000/- because of the higher customs duty and CST/VAT as compared to a mobile phone. 2) We have standardised our International shipping system and price. We are not going to be shipping to Europe and America as they already have Openmoko Distributors. International Orders (To Asia, Africa and Australia only) are now possible - Price EURO 325.00 plus Euro 30 for Shipping by DHL/UPS.Payment only through direct bank transfer, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]for more details. Regards, Rakshat www.idasystems.net ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: (NAND) boot problems with empty batteries ?
are these known problems ? afaik, yes. how can I get the FR up with empty batteries, how to charge an empty battery ? the way you did. it is annoying (though i only once and recently was in that situation) and i would expect it to be fixed -- other dives shut down if battery falls below a certain level, the fr should do so, too. dunno why it doesn't and never got an answer how to check for critical battery state (polling sysfs on my own is no prefered solution, there should be some kind of trigger). ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on theFreerunner?
+1415 :) 2008/8/13 Gilles Casse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Le mer 13/08/08 07:51, Olivier Berger [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit: Please issue it when it's READY and not on 2008.9.9 at 09:09:09 just for the fun of it. It depends on expectations, all respectable; some people are also interested in providing feedback for alpha releases. And it is good : I feared at a moment that the OM community could just be exclusively a community of consumers. So why not a next _alpha_ release on 2008.09.10 at 11:12:13 :-) Gilles ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Using freerunner as a telephone
I found Qtopia had problems receiving calls when suspended and receiving text messages. Also pressing the keypad whilst making a call didn't work, rendering my voicemail useless for the calls I missed. It frequently displayed No network too, dispite being in an area with excellent coverage. Tim On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 5:01 AM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Qtopia. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Smith Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 3:05 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Using freerunner as a telephone What is the best image and configuration to have freerunner making and receiving telephone calls. I am thinking maximum reliability and battery life. Kind of failsafe mode. Or am I on the wrong universe? -- - Eric Smith ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: opkg upgrade - kernel not updated corectly - Om2008.8
Benedikt Schindler wrote: it's me again with an update problem of the kernel. i like kernels and i like to update them in a wrong way :) so here are my steps so far. Device: Freerunner rootfs: Om2008.8 kernel: Om2008.8 i installed the Om2008.8 and did a opkg update opkg upgrade. i deleted the neo-feeds. i added this feeds to opkg: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/om-gta02/ http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/ http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/ Those feeds are not updates to Om2008.08 If you use them, you are guaranteed to have versioning problems. Let me repeat it again: Buildhost does *not* build ASU/Om2008.08 packages. I'm hoping that Openmoko build leader will announce a change to this policy, but at the moment you cannot get Om2008.08 updates from buildhost. -- Rod ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: (NAND) boot problems with empty batteries ?
Harald Koenig wrote: Hi, when my gta02v5 battery is completely empty I have two problems booting again at all: 1) NAND u-boot does not work: after connecting AC charger I can start only NOR boot (aux button first), but the NAND boot (no aux button, only pwr button for 10+ seconds just does nothing, the aux button doesn't blink then either). removing power and battery for some 10 seconds doesn't help. just charging 10 minutes (using AC charger) before trying [nand] boot doesn't help right now either. update (I write this email because right now I'm that out of power mode again:-( after 10+ minutes connection to AC charger (still powered off) I can't even get into the NOR boot anymore. I removed the battery and AC, reconnected both and NOR boot came up. here I selected power off and tried to do a regular NAND boot (no aux) -- doesn't react. now NOR boot doesn't work either. after some waiting (1 min?) NOR boot comes up again, now I selected reboot (is this supposed to re-boot the nand uboot?). the screen got white for ~2 seconds, than black again and that's it:-( what's going wrong here ?? 2) boot process crashes (switches off) with usb power from notebook if I connect the FR to my notebook (Lenovo T61p) for power and once I manage to boot, the boot just crashes after a while (1-2+ minutes), I only have a black screen then and all I can do to boot again (long pwr on). usually in this situation all futher tries to boot won't come up either. I'm not sure if these crashes might be triggered by the notebook having some USB problems (device not accepting address ...) and thus disabling usb power for that port (port 2 disabled by hub (EMI?), re-enabling...) or if that hub-disabling is only a result of the FR already being crashed or switched off during boot. solution in this case: I removed the empty battery, replaced it with the battery of my real (nokia) phone (nokia). then boot works, and while FR is running and connected to the notebook I swap batteries again and charge the empty FR battery. I had this situation(2) at least 3-4 times before using various uboot/kernel/distro versions, I only started using the AC charger yesterday and realized, that it supplies much higher current and charging goes much faster (almost a fator 3 in charging rate!) are these known problems ? how can I get the FR up with empty batteries, how to charge an empty battery ? thanks for any hint or comment, Harald http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Freerunner_Hardware_Issues#PMU/Charger Issue ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on theFreerunner?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 It will be very very nice _alpha_ release :) Gilles Casse wrote: So why not a next _alpha_ release on 2008.09.10 at 11:12:13 :-) Gilles -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIostbSIAU/I6SkT0RAi7MAKCPRr/gUkYn0Z7OLkZv76DTXLBskwCdENqx LjRd5glEF76yhYPSD7xaLBs= =/ouf -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenEinstein Newton emulator - Working?
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 12:52 PM, Tilman Baumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I always wonder why no one ever tried to build a modern newton like runtime. Not necessarily smalltalk, but maybe OpenStep/GNUStep... Something like mySTEP (http://www.quantum-step.com/wiki.php?page=mySTEP)? There's even binaries for Neo1973. -- Olivier M. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
FSO 20080812 not recommended
This is personal opinion only, I have no special connection to FSO. The 20080812 build has these issues found in a brief trial: - no sound (no ring on incoming call, no sound in or out in call) - no suspend - no config I understand that daily builds are not expected to be usable. I am just trying to save other people the trouble of finding these problems themselves. -- Craig Allen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What could be done to improve the OM development process?
Holger Freyther [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wednesday 13 August 2008 00:05:14 Jeffery Davis wrote: 2. Better communication between the development community and the end user community. I have yet to see anyone say they're pleased as punch with the keyboard. When almost everyone is unhappy, closing bugs as 'working as intended' is pigheaded. Hey, as this action is misunderstood a couple of small words. What is the bugtracker for? The way we have used docs.openmoko.org so far is to make it an engineering tool. The assigned/owned tickets tells/informs engineers what to work on, when to get it done (milestone) and how important that is. Whereas us users have been assuming that it was an open bugtracker for en-users... Maybe there would be a need for some other Bug-tracking tool, which would clearly support the separation between support-oriented bugtracker (external) and engineering-oriented one (internal maybe) ? I don't think trac's is powerful enough to play both roles without much frustration from either side (but I may be wrong). In any case, a policy should be drafted and announced widely. And mailing-lists for users vs bugtracker for engineering is not satisfactory for any open project, of course. Also, maybe you would need to rely on an organisational tool like a todo manager to assign work to people, whereas bugtrackers may only be there as a repository of knowledge and a communication tool ? My 2 cents. Best regards, -- Olivier BERGER (OpenPGP: 1024D/B4C5F37F) http://www.olivierberger.com/weblog/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Demo apps for 2008.8?
Hi, I run a stock 2008.8 with a terminal and tangoGPS installed as 'new' apps. I was wondering if there are any must-have/wow-factor apps to install. Something to show off display clarity and/or accellerometers would be nice. At the moment I show off my phone by running the terminal (and occasionally by typing to collegues using a bluetooth kbd), but having additional 'wow' things would be nice. Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Using freerunner as a telephone
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 13:49, Tim Coggins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I found Qtopia had problems receiving calls when suspended and receiving text messages. Also pressing the keypad whilst making a call didn't work, rendering my voicemail useless for the calls I missed. It frequently displayed No network too, dispite being in an area with excellent coverage. Tim For me -tested Om2007.2, ASU, Qtopia- , Qtopia was the distro with the best suspend behaviour : always wake up on calls, I think also for sms, and does not wake up else (gsm registration...). Keypad during calls also worked. But maybe since the last release it is not so true anymore... not used enough to be sure but I think I have more little hiccups too... And yes, gsm may be less good because these 3 last days (after update), it usually decides to automatically connect to another (Roaming) network (stronger reception). Last weeks it didn't, and it is at the same location. (And that is a problem for me since manual selection of network does not work, so I have to keep roaming) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ahah: and you released anyway ? - Re: [ Software Testing Report : 2008.08.07 ]
Michele Renda [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This type of comments are the type of comment that I hate most of all. Please let the people to work in peace, and if you want to make an appoint, please make in a constructive way. We all was knowing that OM 2008.8 was in very early development, and no one force you to use it. People like you bring firms to have a close development process. Please re-read http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-August/025619.html ! I'd have expected a release announcement saying that it was not ready, because (as QA report exhibited) there were major problems, but that, still, people who would like to help could test-drive it. It was all like : it's much better than 2007.2, which it wasn't for serious reasons. Hence my disappointment (which turned into anger, with the bugtracker usage misunderstandings). Again, this was a big frustration for all those who believed in what was announced in the release message. But I think I have made enough rant. Be sure that this won't stop me from trying to be as constructive as I can in other technical areas. Lookin' forward for next batch of updates, and let's see if QA work is more seriously taken into consideration before releasing, then. Best regards, -- Olivier BERGER (OpenPGP: 1024D/B4C5F37F) http://www.olivierberger.com/weblog/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ahah: and you released anyway ? - Re: [ Software Testing Report : 2008.08.07 ]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Olivier Berger wrote: Please re-read http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-August/025619.html ! Hi Oliver Usually I do this 2-3 times, because I am not an enlgish native speaker. And with written text usually is a bit more difficult to understand the tone of a message I'd have expected a release announcement saying that it was not ready, because (as QA report exhibited) there were major problems, but that, still, people who would like to help could test-drive it. It was all like : it's much better than 2007.2, which it wasn't for serious reasons. Hence my disappointment (which turned into anger, with the bugtracker usage misunderstandings). No one is perfect. Neither the person that work in Openmoko. They are only humans, and may be they liked so much 2008.8 that they said: for us is like a stable release. Is possible they was wrong, but these is no reason to be in angry with them, because they shared their errors with us. Belive me, in every development process errors happens. The important thing is how it will be solved. Some people asked to divide the development image from *enought* stables image, other did other propouse. To write an email when you are in angry and fustrated is not the best way to help them. If we continue to attach them in this way, them will finish to see us more like customers (or ennemy) than a community. And I don't like to be a customer. Again, this was a big frustration for all those who believed in what was announced in the release message. But I think I have made enough rant. Be sure that this won't stop me from trying to be as constructive as I can in other technical areas. I apologize if I said you was not constructive, but according me is very important to let them to understand we want to be with them, and not against them, like a lot of email I read in these days. Lookin' forward for next batch of updates, and let's see if QA work is more seriously taken into consideration before releasing, then. Best regards, Best regards :) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIotXiSIAU/I6SkT0RApFaAJ93uodMWN/RbkiAK6m+j4rpJ5R6ewCfQopr W2u6ehl6W9/uYcneynDC+vI= =Bx9+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Please issue it when it's READY and not on 2008.9.9 at 09:09:09 just for the fun of it. Idea of Open Source projects is to release them before they're ready, to let community work on them as well. That would be fine in our case, *if* we could work on them concurrently, but there is so much cruft in dealing with the build environment - and too many forks in the details - that it makes it very unproductive to try to contribute. If we could get a list of people who are the *main* developers responsible for the contributions in the image, and if those people would then tell us other developers, reliably, how to catch up and keep up with them with regards to code changes and build environments, and if there were a few reliably sync'ed images produced that we 3rd party developers could verify our own local results against, this situation will change. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenEinstein Newton emulator - Working?
Is there any interest? The large screen seems perfectly suited to a Newton Emulator and the Newton UI really is awesome to behold - just so intuitive! Hell yes, count me as interested. Also, anyone want to get a PalmOS emu running? That'd be wonderful, frankly .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: opkg upgrade - kernel not updated corectly - Om2008.8
I'm hoping that Openmoko build leader will announce a change to this policy, but at the moment you cannot get Om2008.08 updates from buildhost. Who is that, anyway? Its so confusing. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: IDA Systems Freerunner sales update
Hi, I have had a good experience with how IDAsystems handled their busyness with me, and I did a bank transfer my self ( probably one of the few who did so. that is why I am sticking my neck out here). Having said that, I completely understand your unwillingness to deposit money without prior familiarity with the company. I made contact with the company multiple times ( some over phone) before I made the payment myself. However it makes no sense to me why being in USA or India would make any difference in choosing between credit card or bank transfer. one can get duped in both methods in both countries (credit card protections are an illusion). IMHO of course. Regards, Ganesh K Disclaimer: The information above is my experience. I do not work for OR vouch for said company. make your on experiences :-) On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 11:23 AM, Abimanyu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Rakshat, Your Products are very nice but you don't have creditcard payment method. We can't blindly drop cash in your account. And other payment methods take long time. Remember that your are in India not in USA. If you are ready to provide cash on delivery (Hyderabad,Andhra Pradesh) or creditcard i am ready to buy 2 Debug Boards and 2 Openmoko handsets. Contact me if you are interested +919000336668 Regards, Abimanyu G. On Wednesday 13 August 2008 4:40:40 pm rakshat hooja wrote: Two announcements re Freerunner sales in from IDA Systems. 1) We are getting a few (20) Debug boards with our next shipment. If you are in India and would like to order one please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] The final Price will be announced on our website but expect it to be priced around/above INR 8000/- because of the higher customs duty and CST/VAT as compared to a mobile phone. 2) We have standardised our International shipping system and price. We are not going to be shipping to Europe and America as they already have Openmoko Distributors. International Orders (To Asia, Africa and Australia only) are now possible - Price EURO 325.00 plus Euro 30 for Shipping by DHL/UPS.Payment only through direct bank transfer, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]for more details. Regards, Rakshat www.idasystems.net ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
which updates for Om 2008.8 ?
Hi, in Om 2008.8 all feeds in /etc/opkg/ go to http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/Om2008.8/ is it ok to use http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200808/MMDD/ as update feed for Om 2008.8 ? if not, is there a recommended update feed for Om 2008.8 ? thanks, Harald -- I hope to die ___ _ before I *have* to use Microsoft Word., 0--,|/OOO\ Donald E. Knuth, 02-Oct-2001 in Tuebingen._/ / /OOO\ \ \/OOO\ \ O|// \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Harald Koenig // / \\ \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ^ ^ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO 20080812 not recommended
FSO daily builds (not sure if these are official, whatever that means): http://totalueberwachung.de/~alphaone/openembedded-build/glibc/images/neo1973/?C=M;O=D -- Craig Allen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Using freerunner as a telephone
Thanks for that infomation. I did this testing on Saturday so I must of had a bad build. Can someone point me towards some good Qtopia images? I'd be really happy just to use the Neo as a phone to make and receive calls and text messages, then I'll put 2008.8 on the SD card for tangoGPS and dev stuff. Thanks, Tim On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Cédric Berger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 13:49, Tim Coggins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I found Qtopia had problems receiving calls when suspended and receiving text messages. Also pressing the keypad whilst making a call didn't work, rendering my voicemail useless for the calls I missed. It frequently displayed No network too, dispite being in an area with excellent coverage. Tim For me -tested Om2007.2, ASU, Qtopia- , Qtopia was the distro with the best suspend behaviour : always wake up on calls, I think also for sms, and does not wake up else (gsm registration...). Keypad during calls also worked. But maybe since the last release it is not so true anymore... not used enough to be sure but I think I have more little hiccups too... And yes, gsm may be less good because these 3 last days (after update), it usually decides to automatically connect to another (Roaming) network (stronger reception). Last weeks it didn't, and it is at the same location. (And that is a problem for me since manual selection of network does not work, so I have to keep roaming) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
next Qtopia
Does somebody knows when will next Qtopia version be relased (4.4) ? And do you know what will be inside ? (my hope : webbrowser and working gprs ...) Thanks. Mike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: which updates for Om 2008.8 ?
Harald Koenig wrote: in Om 2008.8 all feeds in /etc/opkg/ go to http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/Om2008.8/ Correct. That is the Om2008.08 feed. is it ok to use http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200808/MMDD/ as update feed for Om 2008.8 ? Absolutely not. Buildhost does *not* build ASU/Om2008.08 packages. We're still waiting for the Openmoko build team lead to make a decision to fix this. Building and making public packages that do not match with your latest stable binary image simply doesn't make sense. if not, is there a recommended update feed for Om 2008.8 ? http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/Om2008.8/ There is *no* other feed location for Om2008.08 at the moment, and Openmoko are *not* doing public daily builds of Om2008.08 ... -- Rod (not associated with Openmoko, but with strong opinions on feeds) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: IDA Systems Freerunner sales update
Yes but having a creditcard payment method is preferable than wire transfers, as you'll have to go to your bank, fill a form.. da da da... creditcard you just go to the website put the info there and you got it done much faster... plus in my situation i use an e-card, which is like a mastercard for online or phone use, you can put money in it but you can't withdraw so i got my money for the freerunner in there and can only purchase using mastercard payment option! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: tangospg and 2008.8 - gui not drawing
On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:42:42 +0300 Risto H. Kurppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (RHK) wrote: I have contacted the developer (not about this though) to ask if there is a svn repo or something for the community to participate. He (Marcus Bauer) answered that there only the source codes of releases are available currently, he's been developing tango only as a local copy. To create a wider user and developer community around tangogps, I've asked him also if it was OK to start a tangogps mailing list to allow users and developers to discuss these things and submit patches to him. No answer yet, I'll let you know when he answers. And is this patch for tangogps or general gtk stuff.. To me it looks it doesn't have much to do with tango.. I have also emailed Marcus today with similar questions. I think having chance in participation would be very nice and i would also love to be included. If he replies you please let us know, then we can talk in different place as it is quite off topic here. cheers Petr -- Petr Vaněk http://biodynamika.cz ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: IDA Systems Freerunner sales update
On Wednesday 13 August 2008 15:46:44 Flyin_bbb8 wrote: Yes but having a creditcard payment method is preferable than wire transfers, as you'll have to go to your bank, fill a form.. da da da... Decent banks have an online e-banking site. Wire transfers are generally cheaper too. Don't know in Asia but here in Europe is so. -- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any progress on the white screen of death problem?
On Wednesday 13 August 2008 09:47:51 Florian Lohoff wrote: In general do not mix feeds and repos, the result is not going to amuse you. So which repo line one should add/replace to be able to upgrade to the newer kernel? My simple approach was to add the daily feed from the buildhost which was the obvious thing to do when beeing 12 years of an debian addict ... hehe, this is like mixing debian and ubuntu repositories. They are very close but the result you get might not be the one you want. But you are right there is no public build result of org.openmoko.asu.dev, so no easy way to try an upgraded kernel that has not yet hit .stable. With #1809 we are in the process of consolidating our build infrastructure and feed offerings... once again please be patient with us. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ahah: and you released anyway ? - Re: [ Software Testing Report : 2008.08.07 ]
Michele Renda [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Be sure that this won't stop me from trying to be as constructive as I can in other technical areas. I apologize if I said you was not constructive, but according me is very important to let them to understand we want to be with them, and not against them, like a lot of email I read in these days. Fights, flamewars and other disputes are part of a live community, so I hope I won't have discouraged them too much by being harsh at welcoming them to the wonderfull world of angry customer both contributor mixed environment. Best luck Openmoko employees for next releases. /me goes back to fighting other bugs (not Openmoko related). -- Olivier BERGER (OpenPGP: 1024D/B4C5F37F) http://www.olivierberger.com/weblog/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: which updates for Om 2008.8 ?
Rod Whitby [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: if not, is there a recommended update feed for Om 2008.8 ? http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/Om2008.8/ There is *no* other feed location for Om2008.08 at the moment, and Openmoko are *not* doing public daily builds of Om2008.08 ... -- Rod (not associated with Openmoko, but with strong opinions on feeds) May I suggest to add that into : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om_2008.8#Updates if you feel confident on your opinions ? Best regards, -- Olivier BERGER (OpenPGP: 1024D/B4C5F37F) http://www.olivierberger.com/weblog/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What could be done to improve the OM development process?
I mistakenly sent this response via private email to Carsten when I meant to post it to the list. Original Message Subject:Re: What could be done to improve the OM development process? Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:58:41 -0400 From: Jeffery Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] aaah - but this is what om wants! as per will's words (product management for OM): Everyone should fork. Everyone should create their own distribution ( quoted from: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Community contributions to core apps features. (Was: Terminal forASU) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:44:21 + ) this is om's intention and desire. Explain to me the reasoning behind forking the software at this point. What does it accomplish, besides paying lip service to choice? I'm thinking of the Bible story of Solomon and the two mothers here. What good is half a baby? Wait until there's something /worth/ forking. Can anyone name a product that succeeded by encouraging everyone to fork immediately? I can't think of any examples. F/OSS gives you the /ability/ to fork, but that doesn't mean it's always a good idea or a goal in and of itself. In fact, I think the decision to fork is one that should be made with some gravity. There's a whole world between the cathedral and the bazaar. rock | om engineers | hard place. om design specifies what keyboard it wants. you are to fork and do your own thing if you don't like it. Forking over a keyboard is silly. Almost as silly as not listening to the people that paid money for your product. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What could be done to improve the OM development process?
aaah - but this is what om wants! as per will's words (product management for OM): Everyone should fork. Everyone should create their own distribution ... this is om's intention and desire. Explain to me the reasoning behind forking the software at this point. silly me believing not understanding irony was an entirely german disease ... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Where are the Om2008.8 Updates?
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Cliff Brake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 1:18 PM, Geoff Ruscoe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want to +1 this. No battery status only the charging lightning bolt (even when its not plugged in). Not sure if this is related, but I noticed, after leaving Freerunner on for a long time, plugged into USB, with suspend turned off, my dmesg is full of nothing but these battery messages: [133239.55] power_supply bat: driver failed to report `current_now' property [133273.55] power_supply bat: driver failed to report `current_now' property [133468.595000] power_supply bat: driver failed to report `time_to_full_now' property [133488.065000] power_supply bat: driver failed to report `current_now' property [133511.02] power_supply bat: driver failed to report `capacity' property [133567.02] power_supply bat: driver failed to report `capacity' property [133872.61] power_supply bat: driver failed to report `time_to_full_now' property [133958.035000] power_supply bat: driver failed to report `current_now' property [134067.035000] power_supply bat: driver failed to report `current_now' property [134150.61] power_supply bat: driver failed to report `time_to_full_now' property [134326.05] power_supply bat: driver failed to report `current_now' property [134445.61] power_supply bat: driver failed to report `time_to_full_now' property [134472.565000] power_supply bat: driver failed to report `current_now' property [134538.52] power_supply bat: driver failed to report `capacity' property etc. Sorry if this is totally unrelated. Hans ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What could be done to improve the OM development process?
silly me believing not understanding irony was an entirely german disease ... He said the intention was basically 'fork early, fork often'. I simply asked 'Why?' He didn't explain the reasoning. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS application (was: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld)
Marcus Bauer wrote: gpsd works well and gypsy is not network capable. Simply using your Neo's GPS from your Laptop does not work. And especially for an application like tangoGPS it is inherently broken: every nav-application wants to have the raw NMEA and not some preprocessed stuff and the concept to only be notified for certain events is nonsense because any nav-app wants to be notified about every data coming in. This concept just sucks CPU time. Hello, I am beginning to invest my time in the openmoko world. I just ordered one and will start working on it next month probably. I am mostly interested in the GPS area. I am *very* excited by the prospects :-) Your post made me doing some research about gpsd. In my opinion, the concept of gpsd is nice for desktop application but I am truly wondering why this is relevant for a handheld device where only one app is on screen most of the time. I am also not very keen on NMEA, very bad protocol if you ask me. The only sane and powerful solution is to read and decode the ublox binary format. I happen to know quite a bit about that, maybe I'll contribute a decoder... By the way, I didn't know about Tango GPS until now, it looks nice for what I read on your web site. Once I come back from holydays and I receive my Gta2, I'll try it. Maybe I'll contribute, who knows :-) I am involved in LyX development too (www.lyx.org) so maybe I'll port that too :-) But just my 2c. ;-) Your two cents was worth enough to trigger my motivation :-) Cheers, Abdel. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What could be done to improve the OM development process?
Explain to me the reasoning behind forking the software at this point. What does it accomplish, besides paying lip service to choice? I'm thinking of the Bible story of Solomon and the two mothers here. What good is half a baby? Wait until there's something /worth/ forking. Can anyone name a product that succeeded by encouraging everyone to fork immediately? I can't think of any examples. F/OSS gives you the /ability/ to fork, but that doesn't mean it's always a good idea or a goal in and of itself. In fact, I think the decision to fork is one that should be made with some gravity. There's a whole world between the cathedral and the bazaar. It really boils down to this: encouraging mass forkage in the community is a closed-sourcers weapon against the establishment of a stable community. Microsoft - and others who wish to combat the open source phenomenon - widely encourage forking as it is a sure-fire way to kill public interest in a project. After all, with too many forks, eventually people give up in the confusion. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What could be done to improve the OM development process?
silly me believing not understanding irony was an entirely german disease ... He said the intention was basically 'fork early, fork often'. I simply asked 'Why?' He didn't explain the reasoning. There is no reasoning. Its a destructive policy, plain and simple. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What could be done to improve the OM development process?
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 14:09 +0200, Olivier Berger wrote: Holger Freyther [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wednesday 13 August 2008 00:05:14 Jeffery Davis wrote: 2. Better communication between the development community and the end user community. I have yet to see anyone say they're pleased as punch with the keyboard. When almost everyone is unhappy, closing bugs as 'working as intended' is pigheaded. Hey, as this action is misunderstood a couple of small words. What is the bugtracker for? The way we have used docs.openmoko.org so far is to make it an engineering tool. The assigned/owned tickets tells/informs engineers what to work on, when to get it done (milestone) and how important that is. Whereas us users have been assuming that it was an open bugtracker for en-users... Maybe there would be a need for some other Bug-tracking tool, which would clearly support the separation between support-oriented bugtracker (external) and engineering-oriented one (internal maybe) ? Having two different tools raises complexity and lowers collaborative work. And what do you get from it? I don't think trac's is powerful enough to play both roles without much frustration from either side (but I may be wrong). In my opinion it is never the tool that prevents organized work. Not having the right tool is just the simplest excuse for being organized ;) In any case, a policy should be drafted and announced widely. And mailing-lists for users vs bugtracker for engineering is not satisfactory for any open project, of course. Also, maybe you would need to rely on an organisational tool like a todo manager to assign work to people, whereas bugtrackers may only be there as a repository of knowledge and a communication tool ? Wow, I think it is exactly the opposite. What a bugtracker does best is keeping things that have to be done. What it doesn't do so good is serve as a knowledge base or communication tool. We are communicating over a mailing list. For the rest (ticketing, wiki, source repository) trac tries to be a good integration of those systems. Norbert ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What could be done to improve the OM development process?
On Wednesday 13 August 2008 12:34:06 Norbert Hartl wrote: Don't forget the problem reports which are a valuable source of feedback for those developers. So the bugtracker is also for reporting bugs and enhancement wishes. It is. In the SIM PIN Dialog bug the log was really helpful to identify the issue as I see it. Feedback is _very_ valuable. The benefit of having as precise tasks as possible is that they are small, can be assigned to a single person, one can set the severity and the milestone. After this small task was done, the engineer can set it to in_testing and QA can test that single fix. In an ideal world it would something like this. For bugs found by QA it is actually working that way. For the rest we should aim to get there as well. Is that bad faith? How do others see that? No, it is just a gap. Users expect that developer understand their concerns (you should know what it in it is broken means) and developer expect that users understand their concerns (they should report e.g. that component X makes wrong assumption and produces a race condition). In between there is a huge gap. While the sentence improve the communication is complete non-sense it indicates at least the helpless- ness how to bridge the gap. In my opinion bridging the gap means translation of the language from the consumer to the engineer. I know only two things that can bridge this gap: hehe, we never talked about domain specific languages (user - developer is a bit different though), but I'm not surprised you have looked into that. - if problem reports are written as reproducable misbehaviour one can report it and developer can reproduce the same thing to find his own words/ the real issue behind it. Then the engineer should translate the ticket (subject) to the real thing - community workers can leverage this manually by trying to understand the customer and having enough knowledge to know how the engineer needs the information in order to be able to work. As this is a boring job you have to be paid for it (hello moko). That is nothing you can expect from people to do in their spare time. Yes that is the difficult part. I don't get into details right now... :) My proposal for the ticket system would be to define rules. As soon as you have a page which describes when a ticket is useful and when it is not you can reject tickets from users pointing to that page. That sounds harsh at first but becomes useful really quick because this is a restriction where the community benefits. The rationale behind this is that everybody gains if _you_ are fixing code instead of managing tickets. yeah, this is work in progress. Stuff like two bug trackers, controlling some more fields.. and various other things float through my head and I have to organize this first. Other entities fix that by shielding developers and putting 1st line support there acting as a multiplexers... but I think reaching developers directly can be valuable.. cya tonight z. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPRS working (somewhat) with T-Mobile and Freerunner
Thanks for the response, the ticket is number 88. Chris On Aug 12, 2008, at 6:39 AM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: Hi Chris, Am Montag 11 August 2008 18:39:14 schrieb C R McClenaghan: There have now been several posts related to the successful use of GPRS on one or more of the software platforms - OM 200*.* and FSO - but not much discussion of how to multiplex voice and data calls. The FSO platform through it's mdbus/dbus interface seems to accomplish this. Yeah. We are very satisfied with the performance of gsm0710muxd. [1] below describes how to do so with a prior release of ASU. Is the multiplexer referenced in [1] - gsm0710muxd - now part of OM 2008.8 and should the direct use of /dev/ttySAC0 be avoided? No, Om2008.8 is using the Qtopia gsm subsystem, which brings its own multiplexer (which was disabled for the Neo last time i checked, but i don't know the current status). Is the multiplexer referenced in [1] and apparently running on FSO the means by which data and voice are multiplexed in FSO? Yes. In FSO, if gsm0710muxd is the running daemon, what is the role of gsmd? No one is working on gsmd any longer. Some of the architectural decisions made right in the beginning of the project have proven unfixable. The work of gsmd is getting done by the ogsmd subsystem which is part of the framework daemon. Is gsmd active during voice calls only? frameworkd.ogsmd is taking care about everything non-PPP. pppd takes care about the actual data on a GPRS, however ogsmd takes care of configuring pppd and restoring configuration once the GPRS connection has been setup/ taken down. Finally, with FSO and the mdbus/dbus interface , how can I set other connection parameters - for example, speed, timeouts, reconnect? Which parameters exactly do you want to configure? We already configure it to have maximum throughput. Oh, yea - how can either a dund or pand connection event trigger gprs for laptop tethering? Please open an 'enhancement' ticket (trac.freesmartphone.org). -- :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
ASU and sound - broken - how to fix it?
Hello, I am running ASU (daily builds) on my FR. Sound has been broken for a while now. When I do 'demg | grep snd' I get this: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# dmesg | grep snd [ 35.92] snd: Unknown symbol mutex_lock [ 35.945000] snd_page_alloc: Unknown symbol mutex_lock [ 35.97] snd_timer: Unknown symbol mutex_lock [ 36.04] snd_pcm: Unknown symbol mutex_lock [ 36.085000] snd_soc_core: Unknown symbol mutex_lock [ 36.15] snd_soc_wm8753: exports duplicate symbol soc_codec_dev_wm8753 (owned by kernel) [ 36.17] snd_soc_s3c24xx: exports duplicate symbol s3c24xx_soc_platform (owned by kernel) [ 36.18] snd_soc_s3c24xx_i2s: exports duplicate symbol s3c24xx_i2s_dai (owned by kernel) [ 36.32] [c017a120] (platform_device_add+0x0/0x154) from [bf003064] (neo1973_gta02_init+0x64/0xc8 [snd_soc_neo1973_gta02_wm8753]) [ 36.335000] [bf003000] (neo1973_gta02_init+0x0/0xc8 [snd_soc_neo1973_gta02_wm8753]) from [c006eff4] (sys_init_module+0x1420/0x150c) [ 36.385000] [c017a120] (platform_device_add+0x0/0x154) from [bf003064] (neo1973_gta02_init+0x64/0xc8 [snd_soc_neo1973_gta02_wm8753]) [ 36.405000] [bf003000] (neo1973_gta02_init+0x0/0xc8 [snd_soc_neo1973_gta02_wm8753]) from [c006eff4] (sys_init_module+0x1420/0x150c) How do I fix the problem? I did a 'opkg update opkg upgrade' just now, but that didn't improve anything. -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: which updates for Om 2008.8 ?
Olivier Berger wrote: Rod Whitby [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: if not, is there a recommended update feed for Om 2008.8 ? http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/Om2008.8/ There is *no* other feed location for Om2008.08 at the moment, and Openmoko are *not* doing public daily builds of Om2008.08 ... -- Rod (not associated with Openmoko, but with strong opinions on feeds) May I suggest to add that into : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om_2008.8#Updates if you feel confident on your opinions ? The text that is there (There should be some official updates for 2008.8 setup soon, but in the meantime, you'll have to wait.) is correct. I've added a warning about buildhost. I expect that Openmoko will start populating the official Om2008.08 feed with updates as soon as those updates make their way through QA. [Although one might ask why the updates need to go through QA when it is now clear that the release itself happened against the advice of QA ...] -- Rod ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Where are the Om2008.8 Updates?
Hans L schrieb: On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Cliff Brake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 1:18 PM, Geoff Ruscoe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want to +1 this. No battery status only the charging lightning bolt (even when its not plugged in). for me there is a battery. if i pluged the device in, there is the lightning bolt. if i unpluged the device there is still the lightning bolt. so i think the unplug event is not comming through to the little lightning bolt application. Not sure if this is related, but I noticed, after leaving Freerunner on for a long time, plugged into USB, with suspend turned off, my dmesg is full of nothing but these battery messages: `time_to_full_now' property [134472.565000] power_supply bat: driver failed to report `current_now' property [134538.52] power_supply bat: driver failed to report `capacity' property etc. you can have this quite fast, if you send the device to suspend and wakes it up again. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ASU and sound - broken - how to fix it?
Torfinn Ingolfsen schrieb: Hello, I am running ASU (daily builds) on my FR. Sound has been broken for a while now. When I do 'demg | grep snd' I get this: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# dmesg | grep snd [ 35.92] snd: Unknown symbol mutex_lock [ 35.945000] snd_page_alloc: Unknown symbol mutex_lock How do I fix the problem? I did a 'opkg update opkg upgrade' just now, but that didn't improve anything. did you update your ASU with the buildhost ? that will destroy the sound. ... (with Om2008.8 it did). But i just liked the keyboard they installed me. with numbers/default/terminal ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: where can i find the openmoko-contacts2 app source?
Am Mittwoch 13 August 2008 13:16:47 schrieb yuzhong shen: i cann't find it in the svn repository, or it hasn't released yet, could anybody help me? Please see svn.ohand.com. It's the 'hito' branch of their contacts application. -- :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Application to fade screen
Hello all-- I was wondering, is there some sort of application that will let me manually fade the openmoko screen to black? Similar to a screen saver? Thanks! Lynn ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What could be done to improve the OM development process?
I don't know if I agree with the suggestions of this user, but since we're brainstorming, I have one thought :) Discrete components should be managed as separate packages with separate project pages and information and repositories and bug trackers and such. There's no reason for everything to be lumped together, especially if one of openmoko's stated goals is to facilitate user forking and contributions. This is the way linux works in the PC world. For example, binutils and bash are distributed separately, even though it would be hard to conceive of a system that needs one and not the other, and even though it's made by the exact same organization. It could be the same situation with illume and qtopia-x11 too. Aside from that I think they're doing a great job :) On Tuesday 12 August 2008 18:05:14 Jeffery Davis wrote: Two thoughts... 1. Instead of working on multiple concurrent software distributions, why not try to rally everyone under one banner for a while? People are going to work on what they want to work on to some degree, but an attempt should be made at least. Choice is great and all, but in the beginning I'd rather have one option that works well rather than three or four equally terrible options. There's no need to go running off in different directions when people still can't receive calls reliably, among other issues. 2. Better communication between the development community and the end user community. I have yet to see anyone say they're pleased as punch with the keyboard. When almost everyone is unhappy, closing bugs as 'working as intended' is pigheaded. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Daniel Benoy http://daniel.benoy.name signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: tangospg and 2008.8 - gui not drawing
Hey guys, thanks for all your interest!!! I'm currently working like crazy and have a huge mail backlog, so please be patient with me if I don't answer in a timely manner. As with any open source project, well written patches that solve a bug are always welcome. Example: Pavel Machek has sent a patch that allows to input the lat/lon for a POI in serveral different formats in addition to the decimal. Cool patch, easy to integrate, perfect! [appears in the next version] Another example: some people sent me shell scripts for converting logs into KML etc. This is great too! Reading and writing mails takes a lot of time and currently my time is best spent developing the software. Mailing list, public svn/git whatever will all come in due time. Things that can be done right now: * translate - look into/google for the gettext documentation how to do this * spread the word, write in your blog, send me your pictures, install it on any linux/computer/eeePC/ubuntu/debian/gentoo/SUSE/mandriva/box you can get hold of * On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 15:57 +0200, Petr Vanek wrote: On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:42:42 +0300 Risto H. Kurppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (RHK) wrote: I have contacted the developer (not about this though) to ask if there is a svn repo or something for the community to participate. He (Marcus Bauer) answered that there only the source codes of releases are available currently, he's been developing tango only as a local copy. To create a wider user and developer community around tangogps, I've asked him also if it was OK to start a tangogps mailing list to allow users and developers to discuss these things and submit patches to him. No answer yet, I'll let you know when he answers. And is this patch for tangogps or general gtk stuff.. To me it looks it doesn't have much to do with tango.. I have also emailed Marcus today with similar questions. I think having chance in participation would be very nice and i would also love to be included. If he replies you please let us know, then we can talk in different place as it is quite off topic here. cheers Petr -- Petr Vaněk http://biodynamika.cz ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Application to fade screen
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Hello all-- | | I was wondering, is there some sort of application that will let me | manually fade the openmoko screen to black? Similar to a screen saver? | Thanks! What are you, some kind of Goth? :-) echo 0 |/sys/devices/platform/s3c2440-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/backlight/pcf50633-bl/brightness - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkijHhMACgkQOjLpvpq7dMoB7wCfSm48iVMHo4x/UwzzXB/iLwZ9 BnYAn1sCvihXkGZe5x4+iZWFYHcA6816 =r6Y4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Om 2008.8 Release
Von: Marc Bantle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wolfgang Spraul wrote: 1. how many people want this? +1 +1 2. does anyone in the community step up and compile the distribution for GTA01? (there will be some work: size reduction, GPS chip, etc) I'd be fine with a tar.gz - image to put on SD-card. So size reduction is not necessarily an issue. Actually I'd rather have the complete 2008.08 suite. How are other GTA01 users thinc about that? +1 cheers -homyx -- for Windows problems reboot for Linux problems be root ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Application to fade screen
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | |/sys/devices/platform/s3c2440-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/backlight/pcf50633-bl/brightness Wow thunderbird thought it knew better... that's actually a greater-than symbol not a pipe symbol. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkijHtMACgkQOjLpvpq7dMqsjgCfYUTrZ822dGrslNjDz4+idwq5 ZdEAn1YJb4Tnd57DGYs9hXcgEvLj9LT2 =HstU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: keyboard from buildhost in Om2008.8
Benedikt Schindler wrote: I think this is the keyboard i wonna have. so, can someone give me a hint, witch package i have to use from this buildhost ... or witch files i have to save before i reflash my freerunner? Check out the destructions here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om2008.8_Keyboard#Using_the_Full_Qwerty_keyboard This will get you a different keyboard (with enter, numbers, arrows, etc.), but it has the button in the top right corner to switch. I had problems with it crashing on the predictive keyboard though, so it may not work for you. -- Dirk Bergstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://otisbean.com/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
How are kernels and distributions related?
Should kernels and distributions be seen as independent (that is, can I update a kernel separately from a distribution, and use one kernel with multiple distributions), or should they be seen as dependent (each distribution should have a separate kernel)? /Erland ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How are kernels and distributions related?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Should kernels and distributions be seen as independent (that is, can I | update a kernel separately from a distribution, and use one kernel with | multiple distributions), or should they be seen as dependent (each | distribution should have a separate kernel)? They are all reliant on exactly the same kernel sources. Which mostly works at the moment. If you use Debian though, obviously you need those sources compiled and packaged to .deb and not .ipk. But you are dealing with the same curates egg kernel. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkijMH8ACgkQOjLpvpq7dMpCjQCbBKtEqWB4GK/+3VrZ6KyxWTbK RUgAnAnmi4aAZ9T5OU9wo+WBU3zL0L3O =ROOJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Om 2008.8 Release
On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 4:48 AM, Wolfgang Spraul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For GTA01, we have no big plan yet but we will look at it next. The biggest problem that stops us is that we are extremely low on GTA01 phones :-) I am only aware of 1 (ONE) functioning GTA01 in the Taipei office. A bit hard to do development and testing that way. Next week we will look at the Om 2008.8 on GTA01 situation: There must have been many of them at one time; did you sell or otherwise get rid of all of those? Don't any of the developers have their own? As someone else suggested maybe some people in the community would be able to return them if you need more for development. Not having bought a Freerunner yet, yes I'm very interested in being able to run the latest stuff on my GTA01. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Jay Vaughan, 2008-08-13 14:42:23 +0200 : Idea of Open Source projects is to release them before they're ready, to let community work on them as well. That would be fine in our case, *if* we could work on them concurrently, but there is so much cruft in dealing with the build environment - and too many forks in the details - that it makes it very unproductive to try to contribute. Oh come on. After reading all your (and others') scary messages about that, I decided to give it a try. So I pointed my browser to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile. Half an hour later, I had a build in progress. Most of that half-hour was spent waiting for stuff to download, and part of the rest was due to my running the whole stuff in a particular isolated environment (cowbuilder chroot, for those who care) with its own characteristics (stuff runs as root, and I didn't have a home directory). Of course, the build hasn't completed yet (I have a few *.ipk already, but the webpage mentions 5 hours on a computer that's rather faster than mine), but if pasting less than 15 commands straight from a web page is too high a barrier to entry for prospective developers, I doubt they'd be able to accomplish much even if it was a single command to run. Half an hour. 15 commands to copy and paste. How much more hand-holding does a developer need? Roland. -- Roland Mas A man walks into a bar. Bang. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia issues with 4.3.2-080808
Lorn Potter wrote: Paul Buede wrote: I am not sure the most appropriate place for this, so I will post my issues here and take them elsewhere if there is a better place for them. I flashed with the qtopia-4.3.2-080808-rootfs-08081019.jffs2 and uImage-2.6.24+git30+436204281bcd1fe5999ad6589ea7ab1b5360c352-r2-om-gta02.bin files. 1. Since then, as has been noted, my reception is not as good as it was with the stock OM build. odd. This most likely would have nothing to do with qtopia. I cannot find libgsmd-tool on qtopia, is it there somewhere, or by a different name? Then I could give you some real numbers... Oddly, when the phone boots it has a lot more bars and then it quickly drops, and then its super spotty. I also wonder if there is a way to restart the gsm daemon or service without rebooting? I don't see anything in /etc/init.d that jumps out at me as the right script. Thanks! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Illume patch/question
Hi As mentioned a few days ago I tried to add the operator name into the illume gsm gadget. I've created two patch files, one for the source and one for the freerunner.edc file which is used for illume.edj. The thing where I'm still struggling is the placement of the operator name label. I did not manage to place the label next to the gsm icon so that it does not overlap anything else or it allocates lots of space it does not use. I've now only added the label without any ref1 and ref2 entries. Does anyone have a hint how to get that right? Here are the patches: source: http://www.gup.jku.at/~tkoeck/illume/illume_operator_name.patch freerunner.edc: http://www.gup.jku.at/~tkoeck/illume/freerunner_edc.patch Btw, how should patches be submitted (trac entry, posting on the project page, mail, ...)? Cheers, Thomas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: which updates for Om 2008.8 ?
steve wrote: Rod, Our QA includes community feedback. If we release early particular elements in the community will slam us. We expect that. If we hold back releases, other elements of the community will slam us. So we expect to be slammed no matter what we do. Fun job ehh? Armour plating is required. If you're just going to push stuff out the door whenever you might as well just have the community inform you of any bugs. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
The MokoMakefile is great. I've had it working for months. But I still don't know how I would contribute to OM. There's a wiki page about using the MokoMakefile to edit the existing packages. But I don't think that addresses actually contributing said changes back to OM. Maybe I'm just missing something. Now I have used the toolchain to make my own little app. But I don't think that's what Jay meant by contributing. -Steven On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 2:32 PM, Roland Mas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jay Vaughan, 2008-08-13 14:42:23 +0200 : Idea of Open Source projects is to release them before they're ready, to let community work on them as well. That would be fine in our case, *if* we could work on them concurrently, but there is so much cruft in dealing with the build environment - and too many forks in the details - that it makes it very unproductive to try to contribute. Oh come on. After reading all your (and others') scary messages about that, I decided to give it a try. So I pointed my browser to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile. Half an hour later, I had a build in progress. Most of that half-hour was spent waiting for stuff to download, and part of the rest was due to my running the whole stuff in a particular isolated environment (cowbuilder chroot, for those who care) with its own characteristics (stuff runs as root, and I didn't have a home directory). Of course, the build hasn't completed yet (I have a few *.ipk already, but the webpage mentions 5 hours on a computer that's rather faster than mine), but if pasting less than 15 commands straight from a web page is too high a barrier to entry for prospective developers, I doubt they'd be able to accomplish much even if it was a single command to run. Half an hour. 15 commands to copy and paste. How much more hand-holding does a developer need? Roland. -- Roland Mas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How are kernels and distributions related?
Should kernels and distributions be seen as independent (that is, can I update a kernel separately from a distribution, and use one kernel with multiple distributions), or should they be seen as dependent (each distribution should have a separate kernel)? i think distributions themselves will eventually devolve towards bootable one-use applications, managed through hard virtualization. there is a lot of fuss and noise about the importance of standardized installs for those who just want to press a button and work, but if i could deliver a bootable-SD to 1000 customers, i'd have a far easier time as a developer, making distributions irrelevant entirely .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Oh come on. After reading all your (and others') scary messages about that, I decided to give it a try. So I pointed my browser to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile. Half an hour later, I had a build in progress. Most of that half-hour was spent waiting for stuff to download, and part of the rest was due to my running the whole stuff in a particular isolated environment (cowbuilder chroot, for those who care) with its own characteristics (stuff runs as root, and I didn't have a home directory). great that its working for you, looking forward to future news of your .ipk URL's .. Of course, the build hasn't completed yet (I have a few *.ipk already, but the webpage mentions 5 hours on a computer that's rather faster than mine), but if pasting less than 15 commands straight from a web page is too high a barrier to entry for prospective developers, I doubt they'd be able to accomplish much even if it was a single command to run. since where did i say that i couldn't follow the instructions on the wiki? the issue is that there is no one stable, common, build system - or distribution channel - for developers to pop their stuff into, and with the moving targets of 'fso' vs. 'asu' vs 'om2007.2' vs 'underground' vs 'etc', its a bother. much more fun, right now, to hack code *on* the machine itself, put up with slow (actually not bad considering how much code gets written in between compiles) build times, but have a development environment that sits on a 512m SD card rather than .. 12 gigs, not counting the VM backups i've been doing over 12 months of tracking mokomakefile .. Half an hour. 15 commands to copy and paste. How much more hand-holding does a developer need? please, do not assume i am a fool unless you would consider like countenance. its not the hand-holding or the trick makefiles. its the dire lack of a dictator to rally around and form a federation .. and as a result, actually, building apps for the phone *with* the phone is turning out to be, frankly, a lot more workable - and lightweight - than over a year of mokomakefile groupthink right about now .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What could be done to improve the OM development process?
Mike Baroukh wrote: Trust me, to avoid it, for a while I really considered shipping a console-image for the framework image, forcing people to ssh into to start getting familiar with the dbus services... Why try to avoid it? Isn't it the shortest path to a working phone? If the framework's working, shouldn't all the other stuff be easy to write? For me, FSO is the most stable image so far. I don't care too much about how the GUI looks, at least at this stage of the game. (Though 2008.8 looks pretty cool!) hum ... personnaly, I use it. I couldn't get my GPRS work on ASU. It works immediatly with FSO and I could phone while GPRS is on. Really?!? How? Is there a GUI somewhere, or did you edit the PPP scripts to enter your provider settings? So please, if you do this, build also the wm and allowing us to install it ... I think of FSO as a bear bones linux installation. It doesn't too much, but it's rock-solid, and ready to have new software installed. I just wish there was a unified repository for openmoko packages that held all packages written against FSO (ie: a superset of the stuff that comes with 2008.8 and FSO). I couldn't get anywhere with the 2008.8, and am not a fan of qtopia's approach to some things. However, I would like to use opkg to add some of SHR's software (and some 2007.2 software) to my FSO installation. It looks like I'll have to repackage / recompile quite a few programs that I'm interested in, which is a shame. (ie: the openmoko-mediaplayer ipk file I have wants pulseaudio for some reason...) Perhaps there should be 'tasks' metapackages. So, if you have FSO, but want to try out the SHR gui you just do this: opkg install task-shr Then, edit some .Xsession file to launch illume + qtopia. FSO with a 2007.2 look and feel would be this: opkg install matchbox and edit your .Xsession to start matchbox instead of illume (and probably port the matchbox panel stuff to new apis...). This approach has worked pretty well for debian over the years. Though now they've got ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu, etc. Instead of forking, OM and others could make images for different UIs. Pre-FSO, I don't think it would have worked for openmoko, since the underlying software stacks varied (and evolved) so much. But now, assuming everyone standardizes on FSO's middleware (which seems to be happening), getting it to work shouldn't be too bad. Also, it would let users avoid regressions like the ones associated with moving from 2007.2 to [SHR|QTopia|2008.8|FSO], since they could choose which apps to run, and try out new software without losing their old installations. -Rusty ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO 20080812 not recommended
Craig B. Allen wrote: This is personal opinion only, I have no special connection to FSO. The 20080812 build has these issues found in a brief trial: - no sound (no ring on incoming call, no sound in or out in call) - no suspend - no config I understand that daily builds are not expected to be usable. I am just trying to save other people the trouble of finding these problems themselves. Thank you! There should be a wiki page for this. Perhaps a table with columns: Image name | Date | Recommended | URL downloaded from | Calls work? | SMS works? | GPS? | Wifi? | Bluetooth | Suspend works? | ... | Your name | Comments Where answers can be yes/no/?/sometimes/bug# Recommended = most stable version of this image so far. -Rusty ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO 20080812 not recommended
Russell Sears wrote: Thank you! There should be a wiki page for this. Perhaps a table with columns: Image name | Date | Recommended | URL downloaded from | Calls work? | SMS works? | GPS? | Wifi? | Bluetooth | Suspend works? | ... | Your name | Comments It's linked from the wiki's Main_Page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions -- John Reese LeetCode.net ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Does Mokomakefile can build a 2008.8 more recent than the one release on August 08 of 2008 ? I setup the Makefile for OM_GIT_BRANCH := org.openmoko.asu.testing and run make openmoko-qtopia-x11-image Will I have the fake asu, like the one on the daily buildhost ? or will I have a 2008.8/ASU ? if not, how can I build myself a more recent 2008.8/ASU Regards Philippe On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 4:47 PM, Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh come on. After reading all your (and others') scary messages about that, I decided to give it a try. So I pointed my browser to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile. Half an hour later, I had a build in progress. Most of that half-hour was spent waiting for stuff to download, and part of the rest was due to my running the whole stuff in a particular isolated environment (cowbuilder chroot, for those who care) with its own characteristics (stuff runs as root, and I didn't have a home directory). great that its working for you, looking forward to future news of your .ipk URL's .. Of course, the build hasn't completed yet (I have a few *.ipk already, but the webpage mentions 5 hours on a computer that's rather faster than mine), but if pasting less than 15 commands straight from a web page is too high a barrier to entry for prospective developers, I doubt they'd be able to accomplish much even if it was a single command to run. since where did i say that i couldn't follow the instructions on the wiki? the issue is that there is no one stable, common, build system - or distribution channel - for developers to pop their stuff into, and with the moving targets of 'fso' vs. 'asu' vs 'om2007.2' vs 'underground' vs 'etc', its a bother. much more fun, right now, to hack code *on* the machine itself, put up with slow (actually not bad considering how much code gets written in between compiles) build times, but have a development environment that sits on a 512m SD card rather than .. 12 gigs, not counting the VM backups i've been doing over 12 months of tracking mokomakefile .. Half an hour. 15 commands to copy and paste. How much more hand-holding does a developer need? please, do not assume i am a fool unless you would consider like countenance. its not the hand-holding or the trick makefiles. its the dire lack of a dictator to rally around and form a federation .. and as a result, actually, building apps for the phone *with* the phone is turning out to be, frankly, a lot more workable - and lightweight - than over a year of mokomakefile groupthink right about now .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
