[Computer-go] Leela Zero is playing self-atari in seki

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

I noticed these CGOS games, where Leela was winning but lost the game by
playing self-atari in a seki:
http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/viewer.cgi?19x19/SGF/2021/01/25/733873.sgf
http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/viewer.cgi?19x19/SGF/2021/01/25/733820.sgf

If Leela is still being developed, it would be nice to fix this.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] CGOS source on github

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi David,

You are right that non-determinism and bot blind spots are a source of
problems with Elo ratings. I add randomness to the openings, but it is
still difficult to avoid repeating some patterns. I have just noticed that
the two wins of CrazyStone-81-15po against LZ_286_e6e2_p400 were caused by
very similar ladders in the opening:
http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/viewer.cgi?19x19/SGF/2021/01/21/73.sgf
http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/viewer.cgi?19x19/SGF/2021/01/21/733301.sgf
Such a huge blind spot in such a strong engine is likely to cause rating
compression.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] 12 UEC Cup in March

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

I had not noticed, but there will be an online UEC Cup in March:
http://entcog.c.ooco.jp/entcog/new_uec/

It seems that the English page there has the wrong date:
http://entcog.c.ooco.jp/entcog/new_uec/en/outline.html

If I understand correctly it will take place on March 20th-21st.

I will register.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] CGOS source on github

[Rémi Coulom]

Thanks for computing the new rating list.

I feel it did not fix anything. The old Zen, cronus, etc.have almost no
change at all.

So it is not a good fix, in my opinion. No need to change anything to the
official ratings.

The fundamental problem seems that the Elo rating model is too wrong for
this data, and there is no easy fix for that.

Long ago, I had thought about using a more complex multi-dimensional Elo
model. The CGOS data may be a good opportunity to try it. I will try when I
have some free time.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] CGOS source on github

[Rémi Coulom]

I checked, and CrazyStone-57-TiV is using the same neural network and
hardware as CrazyStone-18.04. Batch size, cuDNN version, and time
management heuristics may have changed, but I expect that strength should
be almost identical. CrazyStone-57-TiV may be a little stronger.

So it seems that the rating drift over 3 years is about 450 Elo points, and
the "All Time Ranks" are a bit meaningless.

Can you produce a list where CrazyStone-57-TiV is renamed to
CrazyStone-18.04? It may be enough to fix the drift.

I need the machine for something else, so I disconnected the GPU version.
CrazyStone-81-15po is running 15 playouts per move on the CPU of a small
machine, and will stay.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] CGOS source on github

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

Thanks to you for taking care of CGOS.

I have just connected CrazyStone-57-TiV. It is not identical, but should be
similar to the old CrazyStone-18.04. CrazyStone-18.04 was the last version
of my program that used tensorflow. CrazyStone-57 is the first neural
network that did not use tensorflow, running with my current code. So it
should be stronger than CrazyStone-18.04, and I expect it will get a much
lower rating.
A possible explanation for the rating drift may be that most of the old MC
programs have disappeared. They won easily against GNU Go, and were easily
beaten by the CNN programs. The Elo statistical model is wrong when
different kind of programs play against each other. When the CNN program
had to get a rating by playing directly against GNU Go, they did not manage
to climb as high as when they had the MC programs between them and GNU Go.
I'll try to investigate this hypothesis more with the data.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] CGOS rating has drifted a lot

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi Hiroshi,

I tried to compile my old code, but it turns out to be a bit too
complicated because it was using tensorflow. I am not using tensorflow any
more, and don't want to try to reinstall and recompile it. But I would like
to try to take a look at the data. Can I download it anywhere? Can you send
the PGN of the 3 lists to me?

Thanks,

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] CGOS rating has drifted a lot

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi Hiroshi,

Thanks for your work. In both lists CrazyStone-18.04 is ahead of
CrazyStone-81-TitV, which is really completely wrong.

I will reconnect CrazyStone-18.04 soon. It may help to adjust things a
little bit.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] CGOS rating has drifted a lot

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

I trained a much stronger 19x19 network for Crazy Stone in December, and
connected it to CGOS yesterday. It is winning almost 100% of its games
against the version I connected 3 years ago, and still has a lower rating.
It seems there has been a very big drift of ratings.

Even the Bayeselo list seems to have drifted.

My feeling is that this may be caused by strong programs losing on time
against weak programs. It would be interesting to compute a rating list
that excludes games lost on time.

I could also reconnect CrazyStone-18.03. I will do it in a few days when
the current version will have played enough games to establish its rating.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] I am hiring a C++ machine-learning engineer

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

I am hiring a programmer to develop game AI software. 100% remote work is
possible, but European only (I don't want to apply for a work visa, it is
too complicated). The job will consist in developing my home-made
deep-learning framework, and apply it to image recognition and board-game
AI.

More details at: https://www.kayufu.com/job.html

I hope some of you may be interested or can forward this to interested
people.

Thanks,

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Monte-Carlo Tree Search as Regularized Policy Optimization

[Rémi Coulom]

This looks very interesting.

>From a quick glance, it seems the improvement is mainly when the number of
playouts is small. Also they don't test on the game of Go. Has anybody
tried it?

I will take a deeper look later.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 9:49 AM Ray Tayek  wrote:

>
> https://old.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/hrzooh/r_montecarlo_tree_search_as_regularized_policy/
>
>
> --
> Honesty is a very expensive gift. So, don't expect it from cheap people -
> Warren Buffett
> http://tayek.com/
>
> ___
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] Ownership head in AlphaGo

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

I don't know if anybody of you spotted this, but I noticed there was an
"ownership head" in the source code of AlphaGo. Just look at the code at
12:25 in the AlphaGo movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXuK6gekU1Y

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] 30% faster with a batch size of 63 instead of 64!

[Rémi Coulom]

Yeh! first win against Kata!
http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/viewer.cgi?9x9/SGF/2020/05/09/999849.sgf

In addition to the optimized batch size, I did two other things:
 - I use two batches of 63 instead of one, with double buffering, so that
the GPU is kept 100% busy. About 14k nodes per second now.
 - I make the search less selective, by using a bigger exploration constant
in the MCTS formula.
I should download Katago and CLOP my search parameters against it.

So far I have tried to keep the "Zero" philosophy of using self-play only,
but playing against other opponents is very likely to be a better approach
at making progress.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] 30% faster with a batch size of 63 instead of 64!

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

I am probably not the only one who made this mistake: it is usually very
bad to use a power of 2 for the batch size!

Relevant documentation by NVIDIA:
https://docs.nvidia.com/deeplearning/performance/dl-performance-convolutional/index.html#quant-effects

The documentation is not extremely clear, so I figured out the formula:
N=int((n*(1<<14)*SM)/(H*W*C))

SM is the number of multiprocessors (80 for V100 or Titan V, 68 for RTX
2080 Ti).
n is an integer (usually n=1 is slightly worse than n>1).

So the efficient batch size is 63 for 9x9 Go on a V100 with 256-channel
layers. 53 on the RTX 2080 Ti.

There is my tweet with an empirical plot:
https://twitter.com/Remi_Coulom/status/1259188988646129665

I created a new CGOS account to play with this improvement. Probably not a
huge different in strength, but it is good to get such an improvement so
easily.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is playing on CGOS 9x9

[Rémi Coulom]

The two wins of King against Kata have the same opening.

I made the opening book of Crazy Stone to avoid this problem. Whenever it
draws or loses a game, it marks the leaf of the tree as losing, so that it
avoids playing it again.

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 5:06 AM David Wu  wrote:

> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:46 PM uurtamo .  wrote:
>
>> And this has no book, right? So it should be badly abused by a very good
>> book?
>>
>>
> Maybe!
>
> But the version that was running before which went something like 48-52-1
> (last time I counted it up) against the other top 3 bots that were rated
> 3300+ also had no book. Granted, the newer one is coded to play a
> little more excitingly on average, probably so its opening lines might have
> more flaws. At least, that's what the net should have been trained to do.
> (katab40s37-pda1)
>
> ___
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is playing on CGOS 9x9

[Rémi Coulom]

And congratulations to rn for beating kata in a very beautiful game:
http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/viewer.cgi?9x9/SGF/2020/05/08/998312.sgf

I am not strong enough to appreciate all the subtleties, but the complexity
looks amazing.

Rémi

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 10:04 PM Ryan Hayward  wrote:

> Hey Martin,
>
> thanks!  I never realized that the sgf came with a viewer... beautiful :)
>
> yeah, wild wild wild...
>
> looking forward to seeing 6x6 games like this :)
>
> R
>
> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 1:03 PM Martin Mueller 
> wrote:
>
>> http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/viewer.cgi?9x9/SGF/2020/05/07/997479.sgf
>>
>> Great games! This is my favorite so far. The way black lives inside the
>> super-safe white area is incredible...
>>
>> Martin
>> ___
>> Computer-go mailing list
>> Computer-go@computer-go.org
>> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>>
>
>
> --
> Professor Ryan B. Hayward, Computing Science Dept., UAlberta, Edmonton T6G
> 2E8, Canada 780-492-2285  RyanBHayward
>   @RyanBHayward
>  Hex-the-full-story
> 
>
> ___
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is playing on CGOS 9x9

[Rémi Coulom]

If White recaptures the Ko, then Black can play at White's 56, capture the
stone, and win by 2 points.

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 5:02 PM Shawn Ligocki  wrote:

> Thanks for sharing the games, Rémi!
>
> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 6:27 AM Rémi Coulom  wrote:
>
>> In this game, Crazy Stone won using a typical Monte Carlo trick:
>> http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/viewer.cgi?9x9/SGF/2020/05/07/997390.sgf
>> On move 27, it sacrificed a stone. According to Crazy Stone, the game
>> would have been a draw had Aya just re-captured it. But Aya took the bait
>> and captured the other stone. Crazy Stone's evaluation became instantly
>> winning after this, the sacrificed stone serving as a threat for the
>> winning ko fight, 18 moves later.
>>
>
> Wow, I did not imagine how that move would be useful later! But the very
> end is confusing to my human brain, couldn't White move 56 retake the ko
> and win it? It seems like Black only has one real ko threat left (J4
> maybe). But White also has one huge threat left (D3), so it seems like
> White should win this ko and then be about 4 ahead with komi. Am I
> missing something?
>
> -Shawn
> ___
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is playing on CGOS 9x9

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

Thanks to all the strong bots who joined. Kata is impressive. Does anyone
know more about its configuration? Is it a single V100 or many?

I watched some games, and some where spectacular.

A firework of ko fights:
http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/viewer.cgi?9x9/SGF/2020/05/07/997314.sgf

In this game, Crazy Stone won using a typical Monte Carlo trick:
http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/viewer.cgi?9x9/SGF/2020/05/07/997390.sgf
On move 27, it sacrificed a stone. According to Crazy Stone, the game would
have been a draw had Aya just re-captured it. But Aya took the bait and
captured the other stone. Crazy Stone's evaluation became instantly winning
after this, the sacrificed stone serving as a threat for the winning ko
fight, 18 moves later.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] Crazy Stone is playing on CGOS 9x9

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

I trained a neural network for 9x9, and it is playing on CGOS.

The network has 40 layers (20 residual blocks) of 256 units. It is running
on a Titan V GPU, with a batch of 64, at about 9k playouts per second.

It is using an opening book that you can browse online there:
https://www.crazy-sensei.com/book/go_9x9/
Each node of the book was searched with 400k playouts.

I will let it play for a few days.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] Polygames: Improved Zero Learning

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

I have just noticed this has recently been released:

github:
https://github.com/facebookincubator/polygames
paper:
https://arxiv.org/abs/2001.09832

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Training an AlphaGo Zero-like algorithm with limited hardware on 7x7 boards

[Rémi Coulom]

Building an opening book is a good idea. I do it too.

By the way, if anybody is interested, I have put a small 9x9 opening book
online:
https://www.crazy-sensei.com/book/go_9x9/
Evaluation is +1 for a win, -1 for a loss, for a komi of 7. It may not be
very good, because evaluations was done by my 19x19 network. I have started
to train a specialized 9x9 network last week, and it is already stronger.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Training an AlphaGo Zero-like algorithm with limited hardware on 7x7 boards

[Rémi Coulom]

This is a report after my first day of training my Ataxx network:
https://www.game-ai-forum.org/viewtopic.php?f=24=693
Ataxx is played on a 7x7 board. The rules are different, but I expect 7x7
Go would produce similar results. 2k self-play games are more than enough
to produce a huge strength improvement at the beginning.

It would take my system less than one day to generate 285k games on a
single GPU. But speed optimizations are probably not your biggest problem
at the moment.

As I wrote in my previous message, it is important to control the variety
of your self-play game. In my program, I have a function to count the
number of distinct board configurations for each move number of the
self-play games. This way, I can ensure that the same opening is not
replicated too many times.
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Training an AlphaGo Zero-like algorithm with limited hardware on 7x7 boards

[Rémi Coulom]

Yes, using komi would help a lot. Still, I feel that something else must be
wrong, because winning 100% of the games as Black without komi should be
very easy on 7x7.

I have not written anything about what I did with Crazy Stone. But my
experiments and ideas were really very similar to what David Wu did:
https://blog.janestreet.com/accelerating-self-play-learning-in-go/

To clarify what I wrote in my previous message: "strong from scratch in a
single day" was for 7x7. I like testing new ideas with small networks on
small boards, because training is very fast, and what works on small boards
with small networks usually also works on large boards with big networks.

Rémi

On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 12:30 AM cody2007  wrote:

> Hi Rémi,
>
> Thanks for your comments! I am not using any komi and had not given much
> thought to it. Although, I suppose by having black win most games, I'm
> depriving the network of its only learning signal. I will have to try with
> an appropriately set komi next...
>
> >When I started to develop the Zero version of Crazy Stone, I spend a lot
> of time optimizing my method on a single (V100) GPU
> Any chance you've written about it somewhere? I'd be interested to learn
> more but wasn't able to find anything on the Crazy Stone website.
>
> Thanks,
> Cody
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Saturday, January 25, 2020 5:49 PM, Rémi Coulom 
> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for sharing your experiments.
>
> Your match results are strange. Did you use a komi? You should use a komi
> of 9:
> https://senseis.xmp.net/?7x7
>
> The final strength of your network looks surprisingly weak. When I started
> to develop the Zero version of Crazy Stone, I spend a lot of time
> optimizing my method on a single (V100) GPU. I could train a strong network
> from scratch in a single day. Using a wrong komi might have hurt you. Also,
> on such a small board, it is not so easy to make sure that the self-play
> games have enough variety. You'd have to find many balanced random initial
> positions in order to avoid replicating the same game again and again.
>
> Rémi
>
>
>
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Training an AlphaGo Zero-like algorithm with limited hardware on 7x7 boards

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

Thanks for sharing your experiments.

Your match results are strange. Did you use a komi? You should use a komi
of 9:
https://senseis.xmp.net/?7x7

The final strength of your network looks surprisingly weak. When I started
to develop the Zero version of Crazy Stone, I spend a lot of time
optimizing my method on a single (V100) GPU. I could train a strong network
from scratch in a single day. Using a wrong komi might have hurt you. Also,
on such a small board, it is not so easy to make sure that the self-play
games have enough variety. You'd have to find many balanced random initial
positions in order to avoid replicating the same game again and again.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] The 11th UEC Cup has been announced

[Rémi Coulom]

http://entcog.c.ooco.jp/entcog/new_uec/en/
December 14 & 15

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] ML web site was deleted?

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi Hiroshi, hi everyone

I received a few emails from the list in August (from yourself and Martin
Mueller), so it seems to be working somehow, but very badly. The mail
server is badly configured, and may be considered as a spammer by many
systems.

For a while, I had a phpbb forum there: https://www.game-ai-forum.org/

I can offer to make it work again.

Also, I have been thinking that many programmers of many different games
are all using the Alpha Zero algorithm nowadays. It might be good to have a
place where all the people who work on go, shogi, chess, renju, etc. could
exchange ideas.

Rémi

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 3:11 PM Hiroshi Yamashita  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I got "Not found" err.
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> I can not see past mails too.
> http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/
> I can see here.
> http://computer-go.org/
>
> Another past mails are available.
> https://www.mail-archive.com/computer-go@computer-go.org/maillist.html
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/computer-go-archive
>
>
> I haven't received any emails since March.
> There are some problems.
>
> Re: [Computer-go] List problem ...
> https://www.mail-archive.com/computer-go@computer-go.org/msg17492.html
> Erik reported in Feb 17 2019,
> Remi also reported in Mar 24 2019.
> https://www.mail-archive.com/computer-go@computer-go.org/msg17488.html
>
> Thanks,
> Hiroshi Yamashita
> ___
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] GoGui 1.5.1 bug-fix release

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

We prepared a new version of Gogui. It is available from github:
https://github.com/Remi-Coulom/gogui/releases

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] List problem ...

[Rémi Coulom]

It seems computer-go.org has made it into a black list. Maintainers of the
list might wish to fix errors reported there:
https://mxtoolbox.com/domain/computer-go.org/
I am now receiving emails correctly with my gmail address.
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] Accelerating Self-Play Learning in Go

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

I have just found out that the list is not sending emails to my free.fr
email address any more. So I subscribed with my gmail address, which I hope
should work better.

I had missed that very interesting message by David Wu (
http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/2019-March/010991.html).

I simply wish to share my confirmation that maximizing territory works
well. I have been training Crazy Stone to maximize territory since the
beginning. That's how it reached the top of CGOS after a couple months of
training with only 2-3 (Volta) GPUs in February, 2018. It took Leela
several more months to reach a similar strength, with considerably more
computing power.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] Hyper-Parameter Sweep on AlphaZero General

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

Here is a paper you might be interested in:

Abstract:

Since AlphaGo and AlphaGo Zero have achieved breakground successes in the game 
of Go, the programs have been generalized to solve other tasks. Subsequently, 
AlphaZero was developed to play Go, Chess and Shogi. In the literature, the 
algorithms are explained well. However, AlphaZero contains many parameters, and 
for neither AlphaGo, AlphaGo Zero nor AlphaZero, there is sufficient discussion 
about how to set parameter values in these algorithms. Therefore, in this 
paper, we choose 12 parameters in AlphaZero and evaluate how these parameters 
contribute to training. We focus on three objectives~(training loss, time cost 
and playing strength). For each parameter, we train 3 models using 3 different 
values~(minimum value, default value, maximum value). We use the game of play 
6×6 Othello, on the AlphaZeroGeneral open source re-implementation of 
AlphaZero. Overall, experimental results show that different values can lead to 
different training results, proving the importance of such a parameter sweep. 
We categorize these 12 parameters into time-sensitive parameters and 
time-friendly parameters. Moreover, through multi-objective analysis, this 
paper provides an insightful basis for further hyper-parameter optimization.

https://arxiv.org/abs/1903.08129

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] A new ELF OpenGo bot and analysis of historical Go games

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

I have just discovered that interesting Facebook blog post, in case anybody 
else missed it:
https://ai.facebook.com/blog/open-sourcing-new-elf-opengo-bot-and-go-research/

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] GoGui 1.5.0

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi Erik,

We had this discussion on github about the bug you reported:
https://github.com/Remi-Coulom/gogui/issues/9
Can you clarify the bug you observed?

Thanks

- Mail original -
De: "Erik van der Werf" 
À: "computer-go" 
Envoyé: Mardi 1 Janvier 2019 18:24:40
Objet: Re: [Computer-go] GoGui 1.5.0




Thanks Remi! Nice to see that GoGui is still alive :-) 


FYI the included version of gogui-twogtp has a bug (which has been around for 
many years) where the '-alternate' option causes incorrect results in the game 
records. 


Happy New Year to all! 

Erik 




On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 6:50 PM Hiroshi Yamashita < y...@bd.mbn.or.jp > wrote: 


Hi Remi, 

Thank you for gogui update! after 10 years? 
Gomoku and renju support sounds good. 

Thanks, 
Hiroshi Yamashita 

On 2018/11/17 5:57, Rémi Coulom wrote: 
> Hi, 
> 
> In case anybody is interested, we have released a new version of GoGui: 
> https://github.com/Remi-Coulom/gogui/releases 
> 
> The main purpose of this version is to add support of other games via an 
> extension of the GTP protocol: 
> https://www.kayufu.com/gogui/rules.html 
> 
> It also has minor improvements that may be useful for Go programmers: 
> - high-resolution icons for high-dpi screens 
> - wait a little for program output before displaying a popup dialog 
> 
> It also incorporates improvements by lemonsqueeze. In particular 
> - handicap support in gogui-twogtp 
> - correct scoring of handicap games 
> 
> The release page has a Windows installer. For other platforms, you will have 
> to compile from source. The root of the repository has an "ubuntu_setup.sh" 
> that should compile everything provided you have a jdk and ant installed. The 
> contents of that file should give you indications of what to do on other 
> platforms: 
> https://github.com/Remi-Coulom/gogui/blob/master/ubuntu_setup.sh 
> 
> I use this version for my gomoku, renju, and Othello programs. We decided to 
> distribute it, as it might be useful to others. 
> 
> Rémi 
> ___ 
> Computer-go mailing list 
> Computer-go@computer-go.org 
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go 
> 
___ 
Computer-go mailing list 
Computer-go@computer-go.org 
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go 
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] GoGui 1.5.0

[Rémi Coulom]

Thanks Erik for the bug report. We will fix it.

Happy New Year!

Rémi

- Mail original -
De: "Erik van der Werf" 
À: "computer-go" 
Envoyé: Mardi 1 Janvier 2019 18:24:40
Objet: Re: [Computer-go] GoGui 1.5.0




Thanks Remi! Nice to see that GoGui is still alive :-) 


FYI the included version of gogui-twogtp has a bug (which has been around for 
many years) where the '-alternate' option causes incorrect results in the game 
records. 


Happy New Year to all! 

Erik 




On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 6:50 PM Hiroshi Yamashita < y...@bd.mbn.or.jp > wrote: 


Hi Remi, 

Thank you for gogui update! after 10 years? 
Gomoku and renju support sounds good. 

Thanks, 
Hiroshi Yamashita 

On 2018/11/17 5:57, Rémi Coulom wrote: 
> Hi, 
> 
> In case anybody is interested, we have released a new version of GoGui: 
> https://github.com/Remi-Coulom/gogui/releases 
> 
> The main purpose of this version is to add support of other games via an 
> extension of the GTP protocol: 
> https://www.kayufu.com/gogui/rules.html 
> 
> It also has minor improvements that may be useful for Go programmers: 
> - high-resolution icons for high-dpi screens 
> - wait a little for program output before displaying a popup dialog 
> 
> It also incorporates improvements by lemonsqueeze. In particular 
> - handicap support in gogui-twogtp 
> - correct scoring of handicap games 
> 
> The release page has a Windows installer. For other platforms, you will have 
> to compile from source. The root of the repository has an "ubuntu_setup.sh" 
> that should compile everything provided you have a jdk and ant installed. The 
> contents of that file should give you indications of what to do on other 
> platforms: 
> https://github.com/Remi-Coulom/gogui/blob/master/ubuntu_setup.sh 
> 
> I use this version for my gomoku, renju, and Othello programs. We decided to 
> distribute it, as it might be useful to others. 
> 
> Rémi 
> ___ 
> Computer-go mailing list 
> Computer-go@computer-go.org 
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go 
> 
___ 
Computer-go mailing list 
Computer-go@computer-go.org 
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go 
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] New paper by DeepMind

[Rémi Coulom]

Interesting, thanks. I had not found pseudocode.py.

It is in that file:
http://science.sciencemag.org/highwire/filestream/719481/field_highwire_adjunct_files/1/aar6404_DataS1.zip

The link is at the bottom of that page:
http://science.sciencemag.org/content/362/6419/1140/tab-figures-data

Rémi

- Mail original -
De: "Dan Schmidt" 
À: computer-go@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Jeudi 6 Décembre 2018 23:39:57
Objet: Re: [Computer-go] New paper by DeepMind




I believe that the dependence of C(s) (formerly c_puct) on N(s) is new. 


The file pseudocode.py in the supplementary download sets c_base to 19652 and 
c_init to 1.25. 


Dan 



On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 5:27 PM Rémi Coulom < remi.cou...@free.fr > wrote: 


Hi, 

The new alphazero paper of DeepMind about chess and shogi has been published in 
Science: 

https://deepmind.com/blog/alphazero-shedding-new-light-grand-games-chess-shogi-and-go/
 

pdf: 
https://deepmind.com/documents/260/alphazero_preprint.pdf 

I tried to play "spot the difference" with their previous draft, and did not 
notice any very important difference. They include shogi games, which might be 
appreciated by the shogi players. It seems they still don't tell the value of 
their exploration coefficient, unless I missed anything. 

Also, the AlphaZero algorithm is patented: 
https://patentscope2.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2018215665 

Rémi 
___ 
Computer-go mailing list 
Computer-go@computer-go.org 
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go 
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] New paper by DeepMind

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

The new alphazero paper of DeepMind about chess and shogi has been published in 
Science:

https://deepmind.com/blog/alphazero-shedding-new-light-grand-games-chess-shogi-and-go/

pdf:
https://deepmind.com/documents/260/alphazero_preprint.pdf

I tried to play "spot the difference" with their previous draft, and did not 
notice any very important difference. They include shogi games, which might be 
appreciated by the shogi players. It seems they still don't tell the value of 
their exploration coefficient, unless I missed anything.

Also, the AlphaZero algorithm is patented:
https://patentscope2.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2018215665

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] GoGui 1.5.0

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

In case anybody is interested, we have released a new version of GoGui:
https://github.com/Remi-Coulom/gogui/releases

The main purpose of this version is to add support of other games via an 
extension of the GTP protocol:
https://www.kayufu.com/gogui/rules.html

It also has minor improvements that may be useful for Go programmers:
 - high-resolution icons for high-dpi screens
 - wait a little for program output before displaying a popup dialog

It also incorporates improvements by lemonsqueeze. In particular
 - handicap support in gogui-twogtp
 - correct scoring of handicap games

The release page has a Windows installer. For other platforms, you will have to 
compile from source. The root of the repository has an "ubuntu_setup.sh" that 
should compile everything provided you have a jdk and ant installed. The 
contents of that file should give you indications of what to do on other 
platforms:
https://github.com/Remi-Coulom/gogui/blob/master/ubuntu_setup.sh

I use this version for my gomoku, renju, and Othello programs. We decided to 
distribute it, as it might be useful to others.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] CGF Open 2018 was held

[Rémi Coulom]

Thanks for your report, and congratulations! Natsukaze is impressive! Yamashita 
song!

- Mail original -
De: "Hiroshi Yamashita" 
À: computer-go@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Dimanche 2 Septembre 2018 17:44:39
Objet: [Computer-go] CGF Open 2018 was held

Hi,

CGF Open was held July 21st and 22nd on The University of
 Electro-Communications in Chofu, Japan.
There were 10 program in 9x9, and 10 programs in 19x19.
9x9 was round-robin in preliminary league, and final is top 6
 programs round-robin. 19x19 was 5 round swiss.

9x9
1st Natsukaze 10-0
2nd Kishin 8-2
3rd Rn 6-4

19x19
1st Natsukaze  5-0
2nd Rn 4-1
3rd Ray3-2

Natsukaze is a successor of Aya by Tomoyuki Kaneko and me.
9x9 1st and 2nd program played some games with Japanese professional
 Hirofumi Ohashi 6d and Nobuaki Anzai 7d.
This will be broadcasted by Igo-Shogi Channel around November.
I will post the result after broadcast.

CGF Open 2018 (all are in Japanese)
http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA012620/cgf2018/index.html
Rule
http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA012620/cgf2018/cgf2018.html
Participants
http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA012620/cgf2018/list2018.html
result
http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA012620/cgf2018/result2018.html
Game records SGF(9x9)
http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA012620/cgf2018/cgf2018_9x9.zip
Game records SGF(19x19)
http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA012620/cgf2018/cgf2018_19x19.zip

Thanks,
Hiroshi Yamashita

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

I am not convinced it is better. I guess rollouts can bring some additional 
strength, especially in a CPU-only setting. I'll test this later.

For the moment, my main objective is shogi. I will participate in the World 
Computer Shogi Championship in May. So I am developing a game-independent 
AlphaZero framework. I won't be using playouts in shogi, so I am focusing on 
optimizing search without rollouts.

Rémi

- Mail original -
De: "Gian-Carlo Pascutto" 
À: computer-go@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Lundi 5 Mars 2018 14:04:51
Objet: Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

On 5/03/2018 12:28, valky...@phmp.se wrote:
> Remi twittered more details here (see the discussion with gghideki:
> 
> https://twitter.com/Remi_Coulom/status/969936332205318144

Thank you. So Remi gave up on rollouts as well. Interesting "difference
of opinion" there with Zen.

Last time I tested this in regular Leela, playouts were beneficial, but
this was before combined value+policy nets and much more training data
was available. I do not know what the current status would be.

-- 
GCP
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi David,

Thanks for sharing your experiments. It is very interesting.

I tried chain pooling too, and it was too slow. It made the network about twice 
slower in tensorflow (using tf.unsorted_segment_sum or max). I'd rather have 
twice more layers.

I never tried dilated convolutions. That sounds interesting.

The value network of AQ has an interesting architecture. It does not go 
directly from 19x19 to scalar, but works like image-recognition networks, with 
2x2 pooling until it reaches 1x1. I have not tried it yet, but that feels like 
a good idea.

Rémi

- Mail original -
De: "David Wu" <lightvec...@gmail.com>
À: computer-go@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Mercredi 28 Février 2018 20:04:11
Objet: Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back




It's not even just liberties and semeai, it's also eyes. Consider for example a 
large dragon that has miai for 2 eyes in distant locations, and the opponent 
then takes one of them - you'd like the policy net to now suggest the other 
eye-making move far away. And you'd also like the value net to distinguish the 
three situations where the whole group has 2 eyes even when they are distant 
versus the ones where it doesn't. 


I've been doing experiments with somewhat smaller neural nets (roughly 4-7 
residual blocks = 8-14 layers), without sticking to an idealized "zero" 
approach. I've only experimented with policy nets so far, but presumably much 
of this should also transfer to a value net's understanding too. 



1. One thing I tried was chain pooling, which was neat, but ultimately didn't 
seem promising: 

https://github.com/lightvector/GoNN#chain-pooling 
It solves all of these problems when the strings are solidly connected. It 
helps also when the strings are long but not quite solidly connected too, the 
information still propagates faster than without it. But of course, if there 
are lots of little strings forming a group, diagonal connections, bamboo 
joints, etc, then of course it won't help. And also chain pooling is 
computationally costly, at least in Tensorflow, and it might have negative 
effects on the rest of the neural net that I don't understand. 



2. A new thing I've been trying recently that actually does seem moderately 
promising is dilated convolutions, although I'm still early in testing. They 
also help increase the speed of information propagation, and don't require 
solidly connected strings, and also are reasonably cheap. 



In particular: my residual blocks have 192 channels, so I tried taking several 
of the later residual blocks in the neural net and making 64 of the channels of 
the first convolution in each block use dilated convolutions (leaving 128 
channels of regular convolutions), with dilation factors of 2 or 3. 
Intuitively, the idea is that earlier blocks could learn to compute 2x2 or 3x3 
connectivity patterns, and then the dilated convolutions in later residual 
blocks will be able to use that to propagate information several spaces at a 
time across connected groups or dragons. 


So far, indications are that this works. W hen I looked at it in various board 
positions, it helped in a variety of capturing race and 
large-dragon-two-eye-miai situations, correctly suggesting moves that the net 
without dilated convolutions would fail to find due to the move being too far 
away. Also d ilated convolutions seem pretty cheap - it only slightly increases 
the computational cost of the net. 


So far, I've found that it doesn't significantly improve the overall loss 
function, presumably because now there are 128 channels instead of 192 channels 
of ordinary convolutions, so in return for being better at long-distance 
interactions, the neural net has gotten worse at some local tactics. But it 
also hasn't gotten worse the way it would if I simply dropped the number of 
channels from 192 to 128 without adding any new channels, so the dilated 
convolutions are being "used" for real work. 

I'd be curious to hear if anyone else has tried dilated convolutions and what 
results they got. If there's anything at all to do other than just add more 
layers, I think they're the most promising thing I know of. 




On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 12:34 PM, Rémi Coulom < remi.cou...@free.fr > wrote: 


192 and 256 are the numbers of channels. They are fully connected, so the 
number of 3x3 filters is 192^2, and 256^2. 

Having liberty counts and string size as input helps, but it solves only a 
small part of the problem. You can't read a semeai from just the liberty-count 
information. 

I tried to be clever and find ways to propagate information along strings in 
the network. But all the techniques I tried make the network much slower. 
Adding more layers is simple and works. 

Rémi 

- Mail original - 
De: "Darren Cook" < dar...@dcook.org > 
À: computer-go@computer-go.org 
Envoyé: Mercredi 28 Février 2018 16:43:10 
Objet: Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back 



> We

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi Hiroshi,

Yes, Weights_33_400 was trained on 9x9. None of the Weights bot uses playouts. 
I experimented training different network architectures with the same self-play 
data, so that's why newer networks are not necessarily stronger than older ones.

Rémi

- Mail original -
De: "Hiroshi Yamashita" <y...@bd.mbn.or.jp>
À: computer-go@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Mercredi 28 Février 2018 23:24:02
Objet: Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

Hi Remi,

Wow, "Weights" is your engine. So my guess was right :-)
In 9x9 CGOS, did you train in 9x9, or just use 19x19 network?
Weights_33_400 is stronger than Weights_40_400.
Maybe it is because Weights_33_400 use CrazyStone's playout, and
  Weights_40_400 does not use?

Thanks,
Hiroshi Yamashita

On 2018/02/28 15:13, Rémi Coulom wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have just connected the newest version of Crazy Stone to CGOS. It is based 
> on the AlphaZero approach. The "Weights" engine were in fact previous 
> experimental versions. CrazyStone-18.03 is using time control and pondering 
> instead of a fixed number of evaluations per move. So it should be much 
> stronger than Weights_31_3200.
> 
> Does anybody know who cronus is? It is _extremely_ strong. Its rating is low 
> because it has had only weaker opponents, but it is undefeated so far, except 
> for one loss on time, and some losses against other versions of itself. It 
> has just won two games in a row against Crazy Stone.
> 
> I hope the other strong engines will reconnect, too.
> 
> Rémi
> ___
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> 
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

[Rémi Coulom]

192 and 256 are the numbers of channels. They are fully connected, so the 
number of 3x3 filters is 192^2, and 256^2.

Having liberty counts and string size as input helps, but it solves only a 
small part of the problem. You can't read a semeai from just the liberty-count 
information.

I tried to be clever and find ways to propagate information along strings in 
the network. But all the techniques I tried make the network much slower. 
Adding more layers is simple and works.

Rémi

- Mail original -
De: "Darren Cook" 
À: computer-go@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Mercredi 28 Février 2018 16:43:10
Objet: Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

> Weights_31_3200 is 20 layers of 192, 3200 board evaluations per move
> (no random playout). But it still has difficulties with very long
> strings. My next network will be 40 layers of 256, like Master. 

"long strings" here means solidly connected stones?

The 192 vs. 256 is the number of 3x3 convolution filters?

Has anyone been doing experiments with, say, 5x5 filters (and fewer
layers), and/or putting more raw information in (e.g. liberty counts -
which makes the long string problem go away, if I've understood
correctly what that is)?

Darren
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

Thanks Peter for running Leela. I don't think the many LZ instances cause a big 
problem.

It's a pity Zen did not play cronus. cronus is very impressive. The next run of 
Bayeselo might move cronus to the top. zero40b is very strong too. The new wave 
of AlphaZero clones will become considerably stronger than the current Zen.

Weights_31_3200 is 20 layers of 192, 3200 board evaluations per move (no random 
playout). But it still has difficulties with very long strings. My next network 
will be 40 layers of 256, like Master. I expect it will become much stronger.

Rémi

- Mail original -
De: "Peter Wen" 
À: computer-go@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Mercredi 28 Février 2018 14:38:01
Objet: Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back



Hi Hiroshi, 


I've turned off half of the LZ instances and hopefully Hideki will run Zen 
again. The various versions of Zen were the most useful high ranking anchors on 
CGOS. 



There have been many changes to LZ's engine supposed to make it stronger, so 
I'd like to know if the ratings are actually different. Different people ran 
the original ones with the wrong configuration as the names were hashes, making 
their ratings unreliable. 


Thank you Hiroshi for hosting CGOS, it's been invaluable as a source of 
verification. 



Peter 


On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:50 AM, Hiroshi Yamashita < y...@bd.mbn.or.jp > wrote: 


No Zen on CGOS is pity. 

To LZ-0xx-p1600-t1-r1 author, 
I think LZ-073-p1600-t1-r1 has BayesElo already. 

From LeelaZero page, 
73 2018-02-05 23:06 54bfb7b8 
LZ-54bfb7-t1-p1600, BayesElo is 2903. 

Recalculating CGOS rating is not essential. 
And too many same kind bots running makes many selfplay matching. 
Its rating is more unreliable. 
Could you stop them, and run up to two or three bots which has no BayesElo? 

Thanks, 
Hiroshi Yamashita 


On 2018/02/28 17:12, Hideki Kato wrote: 


Welcome back Remi! 

On the 19x19 cgos, recently many LeelaZeros are running. 
This flood is making CGOS less useful and so I'll reconnect 
Zen after the flooding ends. Sorry for inconvinience. 

Hideki 


___ 
Computer-go mailing list 
Computer-go@computer-go.org 
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go 

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

I have just connected the newest version of Crazy Stone to CGOS. It is based on 
the AlphaZero approach. The "Weights" engine were in fact previous experimental 
versions. CrazyStone-18.03 is using time control and pondering instead of a 
fixed number of evaluations per move. So it should be much stronger than 
Weights_31_3200.

Does anybody know who cronus is? It is _extremely_ strong. Its rating is low 
because it has had only weaker opponents, but it is undefeated so far, except 
for one loss on time, and some losses against other versions of itself. It has 
just won two games in a row against Crazy Stone.

I hope the other strong engines will reconnect, too.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] AGZ Policy Head

[Rémi Coulom]

I also wonder about this. A purely convolutional approach would save a lot of 
weights. The output for pass can be set to be a single bias parameter, 
connected to nothing. Setting pass to a constant might work, too. I don't 
understand the reason for such a complication.

- Mail original -
De: "Andy" 
À: "computer-go" 
Envoyé: Vendredi 29 Décembre 2017 06:47:06
Objet: [Computer-go] AGZ Policy Head



Is there some particular reason AGZ uses two 1x1 filters for the policy head 
instead of one? 


They could also have allowed more, but I guess that would be expensive? I 
calculate that the fully connected layer has 2*361*362 weights, where 2 is the 
number of filters. 


By comparison the value head has only a single 1x1 filter, but it goes to a 
hidden layer of 256. That gives 1*361*256 weights. Why not use two 1x1 filters 
here? Maybe since the final output is only a single scalar it's not needed? 










___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] ICGA Computer Olympiad in Taiwan

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

The Computer Olympiad was announced yesterday:

"
Dear Colleagues,

The ICGA is pleased to announce that the 2018 Computer Olympiad and the 10th 
International Conference on Computer and Games (CG 2018) will be held in 
Taiwan, from July 9th-13th inclusive.

The Chess events, including the World Computer Chess Championship, World Chess 
Software Championship (uniform platform event) and the Speed Chess World 
Computer Championship, will take place in Europe, either in mid-July or in 
November. The dates depend on which of two locations is chosen, which we hope 
to know in the coming weeks.

Kind regards,

David Levy

[President – ICGA]
"

https://icga.leidenuniv.nl/?p=2265

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] AI ryusei 2017 first day result

[Rémi Coulom]

Thanks Hiroshi.

Did anything special happen in the game between Maru and FineArt?

I wish you good games for the second day.

Rémi

- Mail original -
De: "Hiroshi Yamashita" 
À: computer-go@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Samedi 9 Décembre 2017 10:36:36
Objet: [Computer-go] AI ryusei 2017 first day result

Hi,

18 programs played swiss 7R, 

 1. DeepZenGo  6-1
 2. FineArt6-1
 3. DolBaram   5-2
 4.  Tianrang  5-2
 5. Aya5-2
 6. AQ 5-2
 7. Maru   4-3
 8. Abacus 4-3
 9. Deep_ark   4-3
10. SR Go  3-4  Category B
11. Raynz  3-4
12. nlp3-4
13. GNU Go 3-4  Guest
14. Kugutsu2-5
15. Katsunari  2-5
16. Kifuwarabe 2-5  Category B
17. KinoaIgo   1-6
18. MayouiGo   0-7

15 programs will play tommorow tornament.

Thanks,
Hiroshi Yamashita

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] Nvidia Titan V!

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

Nvidia just announce the release of their new GPU for deep learning:
https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/8/16750326/nvidia-titan-v-announced-specs-price-release-date

"The Titan V is available today and is limited to two per customer."

$2,999, 110 TFLOPS!

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] action-value Q for unexpanded nodes

[Rémi Coulom]

They have a Q(s,a) term in their node-selection formula, but they don't tell 
what value they give to an action that has not yet been visited. Maybe Aja can 
tell us.

- Mail original -
De: "Álvaro Begué" 
À: "computer-go" 
Envoyé: Dimanche 3 Décembre 2017 16:44:00
Objet: Re: [Computer-go] action-value Q for unexpanded nodes




I am not sure where in the paper you think they use Q(s,a) for a node s that 
hasn't been expanded yet. Q(s,a) is a property of an edge of the graph. At a 
leaf they only use the `value' output of the neural network. 

If this doesn't match your understanding of the paper, please point to the 
specific paragraph that you are having trouble with. 

Álvaro. 





On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Andy < andy.olsen...@gmail.com > wrote: 



I don't see the AGZ paper explain what the mean action-value Q(s,a) should be 
for a node that hasn't been expanded yet. The equation for Q(s,a) has the term 
1/N(s,a) in it because it's supposed to average over N(s,a) visits. But in this 
case N(s,a)=0 so that won't work. 


Does anyone know how this is supposed to work? Or is it another detail AGZ 
didn't spell out? 




___ 
Computer-go mailing list 
Computer-go@computer-go.org 
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go 


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] November KGS bot tournament

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

I would like to thank Nick very much, too. When I was working on Crazy Stone, 
these tournaments were a great source of motivation and enjoyment. I'll keep 
particularly good memories of the KGS-tournament parties in Tokyo.

So, thanks Nick for a great contribution to our community.

Rémi

- Mail original -
De: "Hiroshi Yamashita" 
À: computer-go@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Vendredi 27 Octobre 2017 01:06:49
Objet: Re: [Computer-go] November KGS bot tournament

Hi Nick,

> this will be the last of the series of KGS bot tournaments.

Thank you for holding KGS tournament since 2005.
On CGOS, there are always some new comers.
I hope they also enter KGS bot tournament.

Thanks,
Hiroshi Yamashita


- Original Message - 
From: "Nick Wedd" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 4:43 PM
Subject: [Computer-go] November KGS bot tournament


The November KGS bot tournament will be on Sunday, November 5th, starting
at 16:00 UTC and ending by 22:00 UTC.  It will use 19x19 boards, with
time limits
of 14 minutes each and very fast Canadian overtime, and komi of 7½.  It
will be a Swiss tournament.  See http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=112
7

Please register by emailing me at mapr...@gmail.com, with the words "KGS
Tournament Registration" in the email title.
With the falling interest in these events since the advent of AlphaGo, it
is likely that this will be the last of the series of KGS bot tournaments.

Nick
-- 
Nick Wedd  mapr...@gmail.com

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] Amazon EC2 P3 instances with 8xV100!

[Rémi Coulom]

https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2017/10/introducing-amazon-ec2-p3-instances/

1xGPU: p3.2xlarge: 8 vCPU, 61 GB RAM, $3.06/h
4xGPU: p3.8xlarge: 32 vCPU, 244 GB, $12.24/h
8xGPU: p3.16xlarge: 64v CPU, 488 GB., $24.48/h

Nice solution for a tournament. Probably more powerful than the 4xTPU of 
AlphaGo.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] Log plot

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

In order to motivate you to run your GPU for 100 years, I made a log plot of 
AlphaGo Zero's progress:
https://www.remi-coulom.fr/CrazyStone/AlphaGo_Log.png
I always plot my learning data with a log scale. It often looks much better 
that way.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Ke Jie vs. AlphaGo match

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi Aja,

Can you tell us whether there will be any live broadcast?

I read it on reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/baduk/comments/6bxt5i/are_the_alphago_matches_being_shown_live_on/

"American in China here: apparently China has banned all commentary and live 
streams of the matches, and the city is pretty much on lock down and near 
impossible to get invited into. As for viewing, I'm trying to work out exactly 
what this means. For sure we will have the game records, but it's unclear if 
the ban will hold for foreign broadcasts like the AGA's or only Chinese owned 
broadcasts."

That seems unbelievable. I'd like to set up live comment by Crazy Stone on the 
Crazy Sensei web site.

Rémi

- Mail original -
De: "Aja Huang" 
À: computer-go@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Vendredi 19 Mai 2017 05:52:41
Objet: Re: [Computer-go] Ke Jie vs. AlphaGo match



Thanks Hiroshi. I hope you will enjoy AlphaGo's games. 


Aja 


2017-05-19 11:28 GMT+08:00 Hiroshi Yamashita < y...@bd.mbn.or.jp > : 


Hi, 

It will be played in a week. 
But there are few information about this. 
Is there YouTube live available? 

I found a schedule in Panda-net site. 

Ke Jie vs. AlphaGo (3 hours + 1 minute x5) 
Game1 May 23 11:30-18:30 
Game2 May 25 11:30-18:30 
Game3 May 27 11:30-18:30 

Pair Go May 26 09:30-12:30 
Team Go May 26 13:30-19:30 

Panda net (in Japanese) 
http://www.pandanet.co.jp/event/fogs/ 
Exploring the mysteries of Go with AlphaGo and China's top players 
https://deepmind.com/blog/exploring-mysteries-alphago/ 

Thanks, 
Hiroshi Yamashita 

___ 
Computer-go mailing list 
Computer-go@computer-go.org 
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go 

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] I can't send messages to the list any more

[Rémi Coulom]

: host mail.eugeneweb.com[184.105.139.163]
said:
554 5.7.1 : Sender address rejected: Access denied
(in
reply to RCPT TO command)
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Messages classified as spam.

[Rémi Coulom]

It is the mail server of this mailing list that is not well configured. Even my 
own messages are classified as spam for me now. The list does not send DKIM 
identification.

- Mail original -
De: "Gian-Carlo Pascutto" 
À: computer-go@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Jeudi 12 Janvier 2017 10:45:43
Objet: Re: [Computer-go] Computer-go - Simultaneous policy and value functions 
reinforcement learning by MCTS-TD-Lambda ?

Patrick, for what it's worth, I think almost no-one will have seen your
email because laposte.net claims it's forged. Either your or
laposte.net's email server is mis-configured.
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Training the value network (a possibly more efficient approach)

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

Thanks for sharing your idea.

In my experience it is rarely efficient to train value functions from very 
short term data (ie, next move). TD(lambda), or training from the final outcome 
of the game is often better, because it uses a longer horizon. But of course, 
it is difficult to tell without experiments whether your idea would work or 
not. The advantage of your ideas is that you can collect a lot of training data 
more easily.

Rémi

- Mail original -
De: "Bo Peng" 
À: computer-go@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Mardi 10 Janvier 2017 23:25:19
Objet: [Computer-go] Training the value network (a possibly more efficient 
approach)


Hi everyone. It occurs to me there might be a more efficient method to train 
the value network directly (without using the policy network). 


You are welcome to check my method: http://withablink.com/GoValueFunction.pdf 


Let me know if there is any silly mistakes :) 

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] ICGA Journal with new Steam

[Rémi Coulom]

Thanks to the new volunteers. I hope the new team will consider making the 
journal available online.

Rémi

- Mail original -
De: "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de>
À: computer-go@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Jeudi 5 Janvier 2017 21:32:55
Objet: [Computer-go] ICGA Journal with new Steam

Hello everybody,

as some of you know, I am Vice President of the ICGA
(= International Computer Games Association). After
a very long and successful period (over 30 years) with
Prof. Dr. Jaap van den Herik as Chief Editor, now a
new team will steer the Journal. The official statement
of the ICGA says:


With great pleasure we announce the continuation of communication 
of progress in our games community via the ICGA Journal.

All members who have paid their membership fee for 2016 can learn 
from this communication that they have paid already for the issues 
appearing in 2017. (Explanation: There were no issues of the Journal
in 2016.)

IN GENERAL

The main goal of this communication is to inform you that we have 
recently filled in the position of Editor-in-Chief of the ICGA Journal 
by an excellent researcher from Taiwan. Two new board members will 
support him and also an editorial manager will help with the daily activities.

Moreover, we have an Editor for the second part of the Journal, containing 
the Reports and Issues of General Interest, and an Editor for General ICGA 
Affairs.
For their publication the ICGA cooperates with IOS press, Amsterdam, the 
Netherlands. 

THE NEW BOARD 

Starting at January 1, 2017 
The ICGA Journal is in the hands of

Professor I-Chen Wu
Professor, Department of Computer Science, National Chiao Tung University
TEL: +886-3-5731855 FAX: +886-3-5733777 http://aigames.nctu.edu.tw/~icwu
who will act as Editor -in- Chief.

He will be seconded by 
Dr. Mark Winands 
Maastricht University 
Maastricht, the Netherlands
and 
Dr. Tristan Cazenave 
Dauphine University, France  

The Editorial Manager will be 
Tinghan Wei 
jour...@icga.org
Department of Computer Science, National Chiao Tung University.

Papers submitted to the ICGA Journal (see below) will finally go through him.
They will undergo a full peer review process, 
The IOS press will help the ICGA with their system.


The Editor for the second part of the ICGA Journal is
Professor Ingo Althoefer
Friedrich-Schiller-Universitaet Jena, Germany
Fakultaet fuer Mathematik und Informatik
Angewandte Mathematik
ingo.althoe...@uni-jena.de

The Editor for General ICGA affairs will be 
Dr. Walter Kosters
LIACS, Leiden University


NEW SUBMISSION PROCEDURE

This message also signals the start of a new procedure of submitting 
scientific papers (articles or notes) to the ICGA Journal.

New procedure for the Submission of scientific manuscripts 
Authors are requested to submit their manuscript electronically to the 
online submission system:
https://submissions.iospress.com/icga-journal/content/submit-manuscript 
Note that the manuscript should be uploaded as one file with tables and 
figures included.

Submission of material for the second part of the Journal should be directly 
sent to the Editor for the second part, Professor Ingo Althoefer.

THANK YOU 

We hope to have informed you well and look forward to a fruitful 
continuation of the ICGA Journal. We thank you for the very pleasant 
cooperation over many, many years.

SPECIAL THANKS

Jaap van den Herik is grateful to the new Editorial Board for his 
appointment as Honorary Editor. He wishes the new Board Members all 
success possible.

*

So guys, when you have interesting tournament reports, event announcements,
book reviews, or essays, feel free to send it to me. 

By the way, one of my ideas is to have a regular (or irregular, we will see)
column "best of the computer go mailing list".

The Journal appears on paper every three months, so four issues per year. 
Typically it has 64 pages in each issue,  and costs 40 Euro per year - of 
course to be paid in advance.

Ingo.
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] ADMIN: Maintenance, a few days downtime

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

All the SGF posts by Andries were classified as spam for me.

I recently set up a mail server to handle user registrations at 
crazy-sensei.com. Here is a collection of links that helped me to improve the 
chances of having registration emails reach their recipients. Maybe they can 
help you:

https://www.exratione.com/2014/07/setting-up-spf-and-dkim-for-an-ubuntu-1404-mail-server/
https://www.skelleton.net/2015/03/21/how-to-eliminate-spam-and-protect-your-name-with-dmarc/
https://help.directadmin.com/item.php?id=207
https://blog.stickleback.dk/getting-off-hotmails-blocklist/

http://dkimvalidator.com/
https://www.port25.com/authentication-checker/
https://www.mail-tester.com/

The diagnostics of www.mail-tester.com were really useful. I bet this mailing 
list would have a very low score.

The IP of my server was blacklisted by hotmail. I had to contact them to be 
removed from the list.

Setting up a mail server such that sent mail actually reaches its recipients is 
a bit complicated.

Thanks for managing this list.

Rémi

- Mail original -
De: v...@computer-go.org
À: computer-go@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Mardi 3 Janvier 2017 01:37:26
Objet: Re: [Computer-go] ADMIN: Maintenance, a few days downtime

Hi,
I haven't done anything yet, family showed up and put
everything on hold.
I'm curious what may have been different.  I have
approved some posts that were held for various reasons, but,
while seldom, that happens regularly.
If you like, indicate which they were.

Thanks,
Michael

On Sat, 31 Dec 2016, Rémi Coulom wrote:

> Recent emails to the list are now classified as spam in my mail client. I did 
> not take the time to check the reason in details. But it never happened in 
> the past. Maybe you should check whether your SPF record is set correctly.
>
> Rémi
>
> - Mail original -
> De: v...@computer-go.org
> À: computer-go@computer-go.org, wvgc...@computer-go.org
> Envoyé: Mercredi 28 Décembre 2016 19:56:04
> Objet: [Computer-go] ADMIN: Maintenance, a few days downtime
>
>
> Hi,
>   I will be bringing the email lists down for a few
> days while I rebuild the servers.  There should be no
> apparent change.
>   It's seems like a good time, with little traffic,
> so I'll take it down in a few hours.  I will post when it's
> back.  It will have a new IP.
>
>   Thanks,
>   Michael
> ___
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> ___
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] ADMIN: Maintenance, a few days downtime

[Rémi Coulom]

Recent emails to the list are now classified as spam in my mail client. I did 
not take the time to check the reason in details. But it never happened in the 
past. Maybe you should check whether your SPF record is set correctly.

Rémi

- Mail original -
De: v...@computer-go.org
À: computer-go@computer-go.org, wvgc...@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Mercredi 28 Décembre 2016 19:56:04
Objet: [Computer-go] ADMIN: Maintenance, a few days downtime


Hi,
I will be bringing the email lists down for a few
days while I rebuild the servers.  There should be no
apparent change.
It's seems like a good time, with little traffic,
so I'll take it down in a few hours.  I will post when it's
back.  It will have a new IP.

Thanks,
Michael
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Some experiences with CNN trained on moves by the winning player

[Rémi Coulom]

I probably ran matches, but I did not write the result down.

I remember connecting the stochastic policy to KGS. It had a very unnatural 
style, playing blunders from time to time, mixed with strong moves.

If you have one good move with probability 0.3, and 70 bad moves with 
probability 0.01, it will play a blunder with probability 0.7.

I wonder if the policy trained by policy gradient becomes stronger than the 
greedy policy. Is it reported in the AlphaGo paper?

- Mail original -
De: "Álvaro Begué" <alvaro.be...@gmail.com>
À: "computer-go" <computer-go@computer-go.org>
Envoyé: Dimanche 11 Décembre 2016 22:52:31
Objet: Re: [Computer-go] Some experiences with CNN trained on moves by the 
winning player







On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Rémi Coulom < remi.cou...@free.fr > wrote: 


It makes the policy stronger because it makes it more deterministic. The greedy 
policy is way stronger than the probability distribution. 



I suspected this is what it was mainly about. Did you run any experiments to 
see if that explains the whole effect? 





Rémi 

- Mail original - 
De: "Detlef Schmicker" < d...@physik.de > 
À: computer-go@computer-go.org 
Envoyé: Dimanche 11 Décembre 2016 11:38:08 
Objet: [Computer-go] Some experiences with CNN trained on moves by the winning 
player 

I want to share some experience training my policy cnn: 

As I wondered, why reinforcement learning was so helpful. I trained 
from the Godod database with only using the moves by the winner of 
each game. 

Interestingly the prediction rate of this moves was slightly higher 
(without training, just taking the previously trained network) than 
taking into account the moves by both players (53% against 52%) 

Training on winning player moves did not help a lot, I got a 
statistical significant improvement of about 20-30ELO. 

So I still don't understand, why reinforcement should do around 
100-200ELO :) 

Detlef 
___ 
Computer-go mailing list 
Computer-go@computer-go.org 
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go 
___ 
Computer-go mailing list 
Computer-go@computer-go.org 
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go 

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] Information about the UEC Cup and Densei-sen

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

Registered participants are listed on the tournament web site:
http://www.computer-go.jp/uec/public_html/participant.shtml

The date of the Densei-sen was announced:
http://entcog.c.ooco.jp/entcog/densei/
2017年3月26日

The registration deadline was extended to December 25th.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Some experiences with CNN trained on moves by the winning player

[Rémi Coulom]

It makes the policy stronger because it makes it more deterministic. The greedy 
policy is way stronger than the probability distribution.

Rémi

- Mail original -
De: "Detlef Schmicker" 
À: computer-go@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Dimanche 11 Décembre 2016 11:38:08
Objet: [Computer-go] Some experiences with CNN trained on moves by the  winning 
player

I want to share some experience training my policy cnn:

As I wondered, why reinforcement learning was so helpful. I trained
from the Godod database with only using the moves by the winner of
each game.

Interestingly the prediction rate of this moves was slightly higher
(without training, just taking the previously trained network) than
taking into account the moves by both players (53% against 52%)

Training on winning player moves did not help a lot, I got a
statistical significant improvement of about 20-30ELO.

So I still don't understand, why reinforcement should do around
100-200ELO :)

Detlef
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Auto Go game recorder

[Rémi Coulom]

It can't record a game. But I have plans to improve it. Probably not before the 
UEC Cup, though.

- Mail original -
De: "David Fotland" 
À: computer-go@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Vendredi 25 Novembre 2016 08:08:30
Objet: Re: [Computer-go] Auto Go game recorder

Remi has something: https://www.remi-coulom.fr/kifu-snap/

> -Original Message-
> From: Computer-go [mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] On Behalf Of
> Hideki Kato
> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2016 4:17 PM
> To: computer-go@computer-go.org
> Subject: [Computer-go] Auto Go game recorder
> 
> Hello everybody,
> 
> Chizu Kobayashi 6p is seeking automatic Go game recorders.  Does anyone
> know about that?  An application for mobilephones is the best but any
> system is appriciated.
> 
> Best,
> Hideki
> --
> Hideki Kato 
> ___
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Video of Aja Huang's presentation

[Rémi Coulom]

Thanks Ingo.

http://www.liacs.leidenuniv.nl/~csicga/cg2016/ah2.mov

has the Q session.

On 07/06/2016 05:38 PM, "Ingo Althöfer" wrote:

now online at:
http://liacs.leidenuniv.nl/~csicga/cg2016/ah1.mov

Ingo.
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Results 9x9 and 13x13 at Computer Olympiad

[Rémi Coulom]

Congratulations!

If anybody wishes to update the ICGA Tournaments web site:
http://www.game-ai-forum.org/icga-tournaments/event.php?id=46

Please ask me by email. I'll send the link and password to edit the database.

Rémi

- Mail original -
De: "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de>
À: computer-go@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Jeudi 30 Juin 2016 15:50:20
Objet: [Computer-go] Results 9x9 and 13x13 at Computer Olympiad

Hi, 

in Leiden (NL), the computer Go competitions on 9x9- and
13x13 boards have taken place. In both competitions,
Abakus (by Tobias Graf) won Gold ahead of Zen and CGI.

Here is a photo of Tobias Graf, including also Victor Allis 
(solver of "Connect 4" back in 1988) and John Tromp (known 
from the Tromp-Taylor rules, the Tromp-Cook Go bet, the counting
of positions on 19x19-board, and and and):

Click the link, and in the message click on the small photo:
http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?topic=6138.msg202769#msg202769

On Friday afternoon and on Saturday, 19x19 will be played.
Ingo.
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] new bot friendly go server.

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi Henry,

Thanks for your message. I tried your server (as a human player, not a bot). It 
might become an interesting alternative to CGOS, mixing humans and bots 
together.

I find it annoying that I cannot choose my pseudo. I understand that you might 
not want to worry about moderating offensive pseudos. But it is really 
frustrating.

Also, I would like to be able to watch games played by others.

I (GentleWindCrow) just played a game against "CurlyLion". After a while, it 
stopped playing. I believe I might have lost on time. But there was no message, 
and the game became blocked.

It would be nice to indicate whether the opponent is bot or human.

I am curious about your rating system, too.

Rémi

- Mail original -
De: "Henry Hemming" 
À: computer-go@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Dimanche 22 Mai 2016 10:56:09
Objet: [Computer-go] new bot friendly go server.



Hello, I would like to invite all you go bot developers to my new go server. 


http://goratingserver.appspot.com 


Here are a few reasons why its bot friendly. Its a simple (and very pretty) 
auto match server, with no handicaps, and only such pairings that there is a 
reasonable chance for both players to win. The only rule-set is Chinese and 
there is no arbitration in scoring, server provides estimate on which stones 
are dead, if either player thinks its wrong, they play cleanup, removing all 
dead stones from the board. Clock runs even during scoring, and there is no 
disconnect protection, ensuring all games finish in a timely manner. There are 
no restrictions against bots playing each other, however pairing algorithm 
tries to avoid repeat pairings. Accounts rating are much more accurate than 
standard elo yet will never get "heavy" allowing for quick testing of bot 
features. All games are ranked and there is no special registration 
requirements for bots. 


While there are hundreds of games being played every day by beta testers 
(ranging from double digit kyus to high dans), the server is still in stealth 
mode of sorts. I would like to give any bots a few days head start before 
opening it to the public. The server provides a RESTful interface, but there is 
a simple GTP translation code available for it, which is used to run Pachi and 
GnuGo at the moment. 


https://github.com/typohh/GTPRest 



-Henry Hemming 
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Hajin Lee will play a live commented game against CrazyStone

[Rémi Coulom]

I think one of the main problems is that the network learns good replies 
to good moves. The training set does not have good replies to bad moves, 
but the search tree is full of bad moves that need to be punished.


Alvaro's suggestion looks good. This is one of the experiments I want to 
try.


Rémi

On 05/22/2016 11:41 PM, Henry Hemming wrote:
If the network is too selective, the cost function used to generate it 
doesn't penalize extreme predictions sufficiently? It was generated 
using quadratic cost when it should have been using cross-entropy cost?


On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 12:08 AM Álvaro Begué <alvaro.be...@gmail.com 
<mailto:alvaro.be...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Disclaimer: I haven't actually implemented MCTS with NNs, but I
have played around with both techniques.

Would it make sense to artificially scale down the values before
the SoftMax is applied, so the probability distribution is not as
concentrated, and unlikely moves are not penalized as much?



On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 3:54 PM, Rémi Coulom <remi.cou...@free.fr
<mailto:remi.cou...@free.fr>> wrote:

Hi,

Thanks for using Crazy Stone.

I tried changes during the week, but nothing worked. So the
version that played the game was almost identical to the
commercial version.

The search did not anticipate Black E8 after B3. It seems the
NN makes the search too selective. I will investigate more.

Rémi

- Mail original -
De: "Paweł Morawiecki" <pawel.morawie...@gmail.com
<mailto:pawel.morawie...@gmail.com>>
À: computer-go@computer-go.org
<mailto:computer-go@computer-go.org>
Envoyé: Dimanche 22 Mai 2016 21:29:56
Objet: Re: [Computer-go] Hajin Lee will play a live commented
game against  CrazyStone



Hi,









It's fun to hear the pro making comments as she goes. I had
hoped for a better game, though.
Any comments from the CS camp?



I'm not from CrazyStone Team but a happy user of CS Deep Learning.


I analyzed the game (30 000 playouts per move) with the
version commercially available and it got everything right. I
mean every move Hajin Lee questioned was also questioned by
CrazyStone running on my PC. It includes:


- questionable attachment in the first joseki they played
- hane in upper-left corner
- and finally a blunder at b3 (loosing move) and selection of
this joseki as well


Remi said that he's been working hard to improve CS over the
last week, but it looks like something went wrong and instead
he got clearly a weaker program. Particularly this B3 is
really strange, where right after this white catches
everything with one move. Remi, what went wrong?


Cheers,
Paweł













Thanks,
Álvaro.








On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 3:58 AM, Xavier Combelle <
xavier.combe...@gmail.com <mailto:xavier.combe...@gmail.com> >
wrote:



That's fantastic


I suppose crazystone will play with crazystone account, but
what will be her handle ?





2016-05-16 9:50 GMT+02:00 Rémi Coulom < remi.cou...@free.fr
<mailto:remi.cou...@free.fr> > :


Hi,

I am very happy to announce that Hajin Lee will play a live
commented game against Crazy Stone on Sunday, at 8PM Korean
time. The game will take place on KGS, and she will make live
comments on her youtube channel.

Haylee's youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/c/HayleesWorldofGoBaduk

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org <mailto:Computer-go@computer-go.org>
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org <mailto:Computer-go@computer-go.org>
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org <mailto:Computer-go@computer-go.org>
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org <mailto:Computer-go@computer-go.org>
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org <mailto:Computer-go@computer-go.org>
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___

Re: [Computer-go] Hajin Lee will play a live commented game against CrazyStone

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

Thanks for using Crazy Stone.

I tried changes during the week, but nothing worked. So the version that played 
the game was almost identical to the commercial version.

The search did not anticipate Black E8 after B3. It seems the NN makes the 
search too selective. I will investigate more.

Rémi

- Mail original -
De: "Paweł Morawiecki" <pawel.morawie...@gmail.com>
À: computer-go@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Dimanche 22 Mai 2016 21:29:56
Objet: Re: [Computer-go] Hajin Lee will play a live commented game against  
CrazyStone



Hi, 









It's fun to hear the pro making comments as she goes. I had hoped for a better 
game, though. 
Any comments from the CS camp? 



I'm not from CrazyStone Team but a happy user of CS Deep Learning. 


I analyzed the game (30 000 playouts per move) with the version commercially 
available and it got everything right. I mean every move Hajin Lee questioned 
was also questioned by CrazyStone running on my PC. It includes: 


- questionable attachment in the first joseki they played 
- hane in upper-left corner 
- and finally a blunder at b3 (loosing move) and selection of this joseki as 
well 


Remi said that he's been working hard to improve CS over the last week, but it 
looks like something went wrong and instead he got clearly a weaker program. 
Particularly this B3 is really strange, where right after this white catches 
everything with one move. Remi, what went wrong? 


Cheers, 
Paweł 













Thanks, 
Álvaro. 








On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 3:58 AM, Xavier Combelle < xavier.combe...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 



That's fantastic 


I suppose crazystone will play with crazystone account, but what will be her 
handle ? 





2016-05-16 9:50 GMT+02:00 Rémi Coulom < remi.cou...@free.fr > : 


Hi, 

I am very happy to announce that Hajin Lee will play a live commented game 
against Crazy Stone on Sunday, at 8PM Korean time. The game will take place on 
KGS, and she will make live comments on her youtube channel. 

Haylee's youtube: 
https://www.youtube.com/c/HayleesWorldofGoBaduk 

Rémi 
___ 
Computer-go mailing list 
Computer-go@computer-go.org 
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go 

___ 
Computer-go mailing list 
Computer-go@computer-go.org 
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go 


___ 
Computer-go mailing list 
Computer-go@computer-go.org 
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go 


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] Hajin Lee will play a live commented game against CrazyStone

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

I am very happy to announce that Hajin Lee will play a live commented game 
against Crazy Stone on Sunday, at 8PM Korean time. The game will take place on 
KGS, and she will make live comments on her youtube channel.

Haylee's youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/c/HayleesWorldofGoBaduk

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] BetaGo?

[Rémi Coulom]

Anybody knows who is the author of BetaGo? It is playing with account GoBeta on 
KGS, and is 6d.

I found this project:
http://maxpumperla.github.io/betago/

But it seems weak.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] Nice graph

[Rémi Coulom]

AlphaGo improved 3-4 stones:

http://i.imgur.com/ylQTErVl.jpg

(Found in the Life in 19x19 forum)

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] UEC cup 2nd day

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

This UEC Cup was really very exciting.

I had started to code my own home-made deep learning library in November, after 
finishing my Japanese mahjong engine. I was working quietly on it when the 
Alphago paper was published. Then I felt that I had to urgently get something 
to work before the UEC Cup. I hired Fabien Letouzey in February. We worked hard 
for 6 weeks, and improved Crazy Stone tremendously.

I chose to build my own deep-learning library. That was a very interesting 
experience. I underestimated the complexity of programming back-propagation 
efficiently on the GPU. We did get a GPU version working, but it took a lot of 
time to program it, and was not so efficient. So the current DCNN of Crazy 
Stone is 100% trained on the CPU, and 100% running on the CPU. My CPU code is 
efficient, though. It is considerably faster than Caffe. My impression is that 
Caffe is inefficient because it uses the GEMM approach, which may be good for 
high-resolution pictures, but is not for small 19x19 boards.

The neural network that I used in the UEC Cup started to learn just 10 days 
before the tournament, on a 24-core Xeon. I finished the details of 
incorporating the neural network into MCTS two days before the tournament. I 
was happily surprised to find that the new version wins 88% of its games 
against the previous version at one minute / game. Then I connected it to KGS, 
and it established a strong 7d rank.

It was really nice to meet all these new programmers in the UEC Cup. I am sure 
next year will be very exciting, too. I expect that playing strength will have 
improved tremendously in one year.

Rémi

- Mail original -
De: "David Fotland" 
À: computer-go@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Jeudi 24 Mars 2016 15:09:11
Objet: Re: [Computer-go] *SPAM* Re:  UEC cup 2nd day

There was one program (Shrike) that had a dnn without search.  It didn’t finish 
in the top 8.  Zen and Crazystone have custom DNN implementations.  Dark Forest 
uses Torch.  The rest used Caffe.

Remi's implementation is unusual and interesting.  I'll let him share it if he 
wants to.

David

> -Original Message-
> From: Computer-go [mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] On Behalf Of
> Darren Cook
> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 5:19 AM
> To: computer-go@computer-go.org
> Subject: *SPAM* Re: [Computer-go] UEC cup 2nd day
> 
> David Fotland wrote:
> > There are 12 programs here that have deep neural nets.  2 were not
> > qualified for the second day, and six of them made the final 8.  Many
> > Faces has very basic DNN support, but it s turned off because it isn t
> > making the program stronger yet.  Only Dolburam and Many Faces don t
> > have DNN in the final 8.  Dolburam won in Beijing, but the DNN
> > programs are stronger and it didn t make the final 4.
> 
> Are all the DNN programs (or, at least, all 6 in the top 8) also using MCTS?
> (Re-phrased: is there any currently strong program not using MCTS?)
> 
> Darren
> ___
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] UEC cup 1st day result

[Rémi Coulom]

http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/~igo/eng/result1.html

On 19 mars 2016, at 23:10, James Guo  wrote:

> Show the official web site link?
> From: Hiroshi Yamashita 
> To: computer-go@computer-go.org 
> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 9:32 PM
> Subject: [Computer-go] UEC cup 1st day result
> 
> There are 32 participants, include one guest GNU GO.
> After 7 swiss round,
> 
> 1st CGI7-0
> 2nd CrazyStone 6-1
> 3rd Zen6-1
> 4th Aya6-1
> 5th Gonanza5-2
> 6th Ray5-2
> 7th DolBaram  5-2
> 8th darkforest 5-2
> 
> CrazyStone lost against Zen.
> Zen lost against CGI.
> DolBaram lost against Ray and CGI.
> darkforest lost against Zen and CrazyStone.
> 
> Top 16 programs will play tommorow tournament.
> All top 8 prigrams except DolBaram? use DCNN.
> 
> Thanks,
> Hiroshi Yamashita
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> 
> ___
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] Bill Shubert is opening the KGS protocol

[Rémi Coulom]

https://plus.google.com/+Gokgs/posts/RTK8aFQd98Y

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] CPU vs GPU

[Rémi Coulom]

I checked again, and it is using only one single thread for everything 
in CPU mode. I simply use caffe::Caffe::set_mode(caffe::Caffe::CPU), and 
it is using only one core (I checked with top in a long loop of calls to 
the network).


Rémi

On 03/03/2016 09:19 AM, David Fotland wrote:

If you are using caffe, the network evaluator is single threaded, but it spends 
almost all of its time in BLAS, which uses one thread per virtual CPU.On a 
somewhat slower i7, I’m seeing about 200 ms.

David


-Original Message-
From: Computer-go [mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] On Behalf
Of Rémi Coulom
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 1:23 AM
To: computer-go@computer-go.org
Subject: Re: [Computer-go] CPU vs GPU

I tried Detlef's 54% NN on my machine. CPU = i7-5930K, GPU = GTX 980
(not using cuDNN).

On the CPU, I get 176 ms time, and 10 ms on the GPU (IIRC, someone
reported 6 ms with cuDNN). But it is using only one core on the CPU,
whereas it is using the full GPU.

If this is correct, then I believe it is still possible to have a very
strong CPU-based program.

Or is it possible to evaluate faster on the GPU by using a batch?

R mi

On 03/02/2016 09:43 AM, Petr Baudis wrote:

Also, reading more of that pull request, the guy benchmarking it had
old nvidia driver version which came with about 50% performance hit.
So I'm not sure what were the final numbers.  (And whether current
caffe version can actually match these numbers, since this pull
request wasn't
merged.)

On Wed, Mar 02, 2016 at 12:29:41AM -0800, Chaz G. wrote:

R mi,

Nvidia launched the K20 GPU in late 2012. Since then, GPUs and their
convolution algorithms have improved considerably, while CPU
performance has been relatively stagnant. I would expect about a 10x
improvement with
2016 hardware.

When it comes to training, it's the difference between running a job
overnight and running a job for the entire weekend.

Best,
-Chaz

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 1:03 PM, R mi Coulom <remi.cou...@free.fr>

wrote:

How tremendous is it? On that page, I find this data:

https://github.com/BVLC/caffe/pull/439

"
These are setup details:

   * Desktop: CPU i7-4770 (Haswell), 3.5 GHz , DRAM - 16 GB; GPU K20.
   * Ubuntu 12.04; gcc 4.7.3; MKL 11.1.

Test:: imagenet, 100 train iteration (batch = 256).

   * GPU: time= 260 sec / memory = 0.8 GB
   * CPU: time= 752 sec / memory = 3.5 GiB //Memory data is from

system

 monitor.

"

This does not look so tremendous to me. What kind of speed
difference do you get for Go networks?

R mi

On 03/01/2016 06:19 PM, Petr Baudis wrote:


On Tue, Mar 01, 2016 at 09:14:39AM -0800, David Fotland wrote:


Very interesting, but it should also mention Aya.

I'm working on this as well, but I haven t bought any hardware
yet.  My goal is not to get 7 dan on expensive hardware, but to
get as much strength as I can on standard PC hardware.  I'll be
looking at much smaller nets, that don t need a GPU to run.  I'll

have to buy a GPU for training.

But I think most people who play Go are also fans of computer games
that often do use GPUs. :-)  Of course, it's something totally
different from NVidia Keplers, but still the step up from a CPU is

tremendous.

  Petr Baudis
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] CPU vs GPU

[Rémi Coulom]

I tried Detlef's 54% NN on my machine. CPU = i7-5930K, GPU = GTX 980 
(not using cuDNN).


On the CPU, I get 176 ms time, and 10 ms on the GPU (IIRC, someone 
reported 6 ms with cuDNN). But it is using only one core on the CPU, 
whereas it is using the full GPU.


If this is correct, then I believe it is still possible to have a very 
strong CPU-based program.


Or is it possible to evaluate faster on the GPU by using a batch?

Rémi

On 03/02/2016 09:43 AM, Petr Baudis wrote:

Also, reading more of that pull request, the guy benchmarking it had old
nvidia driver version which came with about 50% performance hit.  So I'm
not sure what were the final numbers.  (And whether current caffe
version can actually match these numbers, since this pull request wasn't
merged.)

On Wed, Mar 02, 2016 at 12:29:41AM -0800, Chaz G. wrote:

Rémi,

Nvidia launched the K20 GPU in late 2012. Since then, GPUs and their
convolution algorithms have improved considerably, while CPU performance
has been relatively stagnant. I would expect about a 10x improvement with
2016 hardware.

When it comes to training, it's the difference between running a job
overnight and running a job for the entire weekend.

Best,
-Chaz

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 1:03 PM, Rémi Coulom <remi.cou...@free.fr> wrote:


How tremendous is it? On that page, I find this data:

https://github.com/BVLC/caffe/pull/439

"
These are setup details:

  * Desktop: CPU i7-4770 (Haswell), 3.5 GHz , DRAM - 16 GB; GPU K20.
  * Ubuntu 12.04; gcc 4.7.3; MKL 11.1.

Test:: imagenet, 100 train iteration (batch = 256).

  * GPU: time= 260 sec / memory = 0.8 GB
  * CPU: time= 752 sec / memory = 3.5 GiB //Memory data is from system
monitor.

"

This does not look so tremendous to me. What kind of speed difference do
you get for Go networks?

Rémi

On 03/01/2016 06:19 PM, Petr Baudis wrote:


On Tue, Mar 01, 2016 at 09:14:39AM -0800, David Fotland wrote:


Very interesting, but it should also mention Aya.

I'm working on this as well, but I haven’t bought any hardware yet.  My
goal is not to get 7 dan on expensive hardware, but to get as much strength
as I can on standard PC hardware.  I'll be looking at much smaller nets,
that don’t need a GPU to run.  I'll have to buy a GPU for training.


But I think most people who play Go are also fans of computer games that
often do use GPUs. :-)  Of course, it's something totally different from
NVidia Keplers, but still the step up from a CPU is tremendous.

 Petr Baudis
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go




___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] CPU vs GPU

[Rémi Coulom]

How tremendous is it? On that page, I find this data:

https://github.com/BVLC/caffe/pull/439

"
These are setup details:

 * Desktop: CPU i7-4770 (Haswell), 3.5 GHz , DRAM - 16 GB; GPU K20.
 * Ubuntu 12.04; gcc 4.7.3; MKL 11.1.

Test:: imagenet, 100 train iteration (batch = 256).

 * GPU: time= 260 sec / memory = 0.8 GB
 * CPU: time= 752 sec / memory = 3.5 GiB //Memory data is from system
   monitor.

"

This does not look so tremendous to me. What kind of speed difference do 
you get for Go networks?


Rémi

On 03/01/2016 06:19 PM, Petr Baudis wrote:

On Tue, Mar 01, 2016 at 09:14:39AM -0800, David Fotland wrote:

Very interesting, but it should also mention Aya.

I'm working on this as well, but I haven’t bought any hardware yet.  My goal is 
not to get 7 dan on expensive hardware, but to get as much strength as I can on 
standard PC hardware.  I'll be looking at much smaller nets, that don’t need a 
GPU to run.  I'll have to buy a GPU for training.

But I think most people who play Go are also fans of computer games that
often do use GPUs. :-)  Of course, it's something totally different from
NVidia Keplers, but still the step up from a CPU is tremendous.

Petr Baudis
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Rémi Coulom]

Better link:
http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/120/index.html

(your link sends to the January tournament)

On 02/22/2016 01:10 PM, Nick Wedd wrote:

Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of the February KGS tournament!

My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/120/index.html 
 .

As usual, I will welcome your comments and corrections.

Nick
--
Nick Wedd
mapr...@gmail.com 


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] The Game AI Forum is back

[Rémi Coulom]

I did not create a go sub-forum in order to not compete with this 
mailing list. As long as there is not a strong agreement of all the 
members of the list to move there, I feel that splitting into two online 
discussion places would be detrimental. I won't censor topics about the 
game of Go on game-ai-forum.org, though, if you really want to post there.


Rémi

On 02/01/2016 02:56 PM, Jim O'Flaherty wrote:

Richard,

I'm probably missing the obvious, I went to the forum, but was unable 
to find a forum specifically for Go. I found Abolone, Hex and several 
others.



Thank you,

Jim


On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 9:08 AM, Richard Lorentz 
<richard.lore...@csun.edu <mailto:richard.lore...@csun.edu>> wrote:


Thank you very much. Personally I find it much easier to keep up
with and follow topics in this kind of format. Perhaps we can
encourage people who post on the mailing list to post on your
Forum instead/too?

-Richard

P.S. Happy New Year!


On 01/01/2016 12:56 AM, Rémi Coulom wrote:

Hi,

I had created the Game Programming Forum a few years ago. I
decided to put it online again, at a new URL:

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.game-2Dai-2Dforum.org_=CwIGaQ=Oo8bPJf7k7r_cPTz1JF7vEiFxvFRfQtp-j14fFwh71U=i0hg-cKH69CA5MsdosvezQ=k7ciuFNHc56S8sYi-wsSC3UjQqtMtd8vZwuQLSElt0U=Qe20Mv7Kkbe7tMuviF1S9NBlJEB_lWpPF2m-yVhiEJY=

Maybe some of you will be interested to participate there.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org <mailto:Computer-go@computer-go.org>

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__computer-2Dgo.org_mailman_listinfo_computer-2Dgo=CwIGaQ=Oo8bPJf7k7r_cPTz1JF7vEiFxvFRfQtp-j14fFwh71U=i0hg-cKH69CA5MsdosvezQ=k7ciuFNHc56S8sYi-wsSC3UjQqtMtd8vZwuQLSElt0U=jQCf3nlMALQtqhF8wjhxM1h1pfAZeKNbABS6uOdgKbU=




___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org <mailto:Computer-go@computer-go.org>
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go




___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] Game Over

[Rémi Coulom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-dKXOlsf98

Google beats Fan Hui, 2 dan pro, 5-0 (19x19, no handicap)! 
Congratulations! I am proud of my student Aja. They'll play Lee Sedol in 
March.


It's a pity they don't participate in the UEC Cup.

I read the paper. The most original idea is in learning a value network. 
It seems to be extremely efficient.


Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Game Over

[Rémi Coulom]

https://storage.googleapis.com/deepmind-data/assets/papers/deepmind-mastering-go.pdf

On 01/27/2016 06:58 PM, Darren Cook wrote:

Is it available online anywhere, or only in Nature?


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Using gogui to visualize a CNN for move prediction

[Rémi Coulom]

This is a 9x9 example for dboard:

= 0.276 0.29 0.335 0.354 0.296 0.227 0.169 0.144 0.126
0.258 0.264 0.332 0.383 0.269 0.201 0.152 0.138 0.118
0.2 0.272 0.35 0.435 0.35 0.238 0.156 0.099 0.095
0.12 0.206 0.43 0.74 0.432 0.274 0.152 0.114 0.084
-0.044 -0.025 0.284 0.394 0.248 0.245 0.154 0.124 0.101
-0.214 -0.272 -0.27 0.644 0.222 0.234 0.137 0.089 0.086
-0.159 -0.004 0.032 -0.306 0.041 0.031 0.048 0.086 0.088
-0.056 -0.052 -0.042 -0.118 0.064 0.029 0.044 0.023 0.059
-0.066 -0.05 -0.048 -0.074 -0.014 0.026 0.052 0.06 0.021



On 01/10/2016 02:48 AM, Justin .Gilmer wrote:
Whew! Finally got it working. Ended up just copying what michi-c did, 
using a gfx command instead of dboard command. Still don't know what 
format dboard wanted, felt like i tried everything! Thanks for all the 
help everyone!



___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Using gogui to visualize a CNN for move prediction

[Rémi Coulom]

Use gogui itself, and check gogui analyze commands:
http://gogui.sourceforge.net/doc/analyze.html

You can see an example there:
http://www.remi-coulom.fr/Amsterdam2007/

On 01/09/2016 05:31 AM, Justin .Gilmer wrote:

Hello,
  I've trained a deep CNN for move prediction and would like to 
visualize it using gogui (or a python library if anyone knows of 
one!). I have gogui installed and have a somewhat decent understanding 
of the go text protocol, although this is my first time trying to use 
it. I'm not looking to have my CNN play another program, instead I'd 
like to iterate through an existing sgf file and view the model 
probablities at each state of the game. So, I'm trying to write a 
python script which can communicate with gogui but I'm getting 
confused with which gogui executable from the list below I should be 
using:


gogui-adapter  gogui-convert  gogui-dummygogui-server 
 gogui-terminal gogui-twogtp
gogui  gogui-client   gogui-display  gogui-regress  gogui-statistics 
 gogui-thumbnailer


I assume one of these should just wait for the program to give a bunch 
of genmove commands? Seems like gogui-regress is what I want? I see no 
documentation on how to use this on 
http://gogui.sourceforge.net/doc/index.html and the provided help 
isn't very helpful. Hoping someone on this mailing list has used gogui 
before :).


Am I missing anything? Is there any easier way to visualize my model? 
Many thanks!

-Justin Gilmer


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] The Game AI Forum is back

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

I had created the Game Programming Forum a few years ago. I decided to 
put it online again, at a new URL: http://www.game-ai-forum.org/


Maybe some of you will be interested to participate there.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] The Game AI Forum is back

[Rémi Coulom]

In my opinion, it makes no sense to compete against the computer-go 
mailing list. I believe it is better to have all the computer-go 
discussions in a single place.


BTW: I reconfigured email. The board should send emails instantly now. 
Sorry for those who had to wait.


On 01/01/2016 08:39 PM, Igor Polyakov wrote:

Is there no Go section?

On 2016-01-01 0:56, Rémi Coulom wrote:

Hi,

I had created the Game Programming Forum a few years ago. I decided 
to put it online again, at a new URL: http://www.game-ai-forum.org/


Maybe some of you will be interested to participate there.

Rémi
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] The Game AI Forum is back

[Rémi Coulom]

Thanks for registering. The registration emails were sent to you. I will 
send them again now from my personal email. Please tell me if you don't 
receive anything within 5 minutes.


I was lazy to configure a proper mail server (which is a bit complicated 
to do if I want the sent mails to not be censored as spam), so I am 
using the gmail smtp instead. My impression is that the gmail smtp is 
very slow, and you are likely to receive the registration email in a few 
minutes. Please tell me if you receive the registration emails later.


I will now try to configure postfix with spf and dkim. That must be a 
better solution.


Rémi

On 01/01/2016 04:19 PM, Richard Lorentz wrote:

Ditto.

-Richard

On 01/01/2016 07:08 AM, Gonçalo Mendes Ferreira wrote:

Hello,

I don't seem able to register an account there. I'm not receiving the
activation e-mail, and I don't have any spam filters. Maybe it's having
problems, or it doesn't contact e-mails with domains other than the most
common hotmails, gmails, yahoos?

Gonçalo

On 01/01/2016 08:56 AM, Rémi Coulom wrote:

Hi,

I had created the Game Programming Forum a few years ago. I decided to
put it online again, at a new URL: 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.game-2Dai-2Dforum.org_=CwIGaQ=Oo8bPJf7k7r_cPTz1JF7vEiFxvFRfQtp-j14fFwh71U=i0hg-cKH69CA5MsdosvezQ=0HLAmDVeSH8CAbdPajsg3FhhNTjHepEXzf2ZjvWf3L4=g-_hPkAV2m1tQ7c5YGm5b4fbP0gRN6XlLrFhb5fXl04= 


Maybe some of you will be interested to participate there.

Rémi

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__computer-2Dgo.org_mailman_listinfo_computer-2Dgo=CwIGaQ=Oo8bPJf7k7r_cPTz1JF7vEiFxvFRfQtp-j14fFwh71U=i0hg-cKH69CA5MsdosvezQ=0HLAmDVeSH8CAbdPajsg3FhhNTjHepEXzf2ZjvWf3L4=2_-nAfzKlqvL6F9v_z9_zPQOD_bJxYIqAreiKl2D5mU= 




___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Final Call for participation: the 9th UEC Cup Computer Go Tournament: Register NOW!

[Rémi Coulom]

39 participants!
http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/~igo/eng/participant.html
I am sure this edition will be very exciting.

Rémi

On 12/08/2015 10:36 PM, 村松正和 wrote:

Dear Colleagues,

I'm sending the final reminder of registration to the 9th UEC Cup
Computer Go Tournament.
Please register now by visiting our web site:
http://www.jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/~igo/eng/index.html
*** The deadline is tomorrow! ***

Even if you are not 100% sure to come to Tokyo, but if you have any possibility,
then please register as soon as possible.

  Best regards,

  Masakazu Muramatsu
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

[Computer-go] Wired: Google and Facebook Race to Solve the Ancient Game of Go With AI

[Rémi Coulom]

http://www.wired.com/2015/12/google-and-facebook-race-to-solve-the-ancient-game-of-go/
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] CGOS again

[Rémi Coulom]

BTW, CrazyStone-0002 (on 19x19, not 9x9) is running on my desktop PC 
(i7-5930K). At first, it was running with 4 cores. But then it lost its 
first game to Aya. I was so impressed by the strength of Aya! So I made 
it use 6 threads instead. It has been using 6 threads since then.


I can't run it permanently, but if strong programs want to try it, just 
ask, and I will let it play during one night.


Rémi

On 11/20/2015 02:23 PM, Hiroshi Yamashita wrote:

Hi Remi,

running "mm 1 1" instead of just "mm". It just estimates the 
maximum-likelihood value of drawelo by itself. Or just set drawelo to 20 


I tried. CrazyStone-0002 Elo changed a bit on each setting.
It looks difficult. So I set drawelo 20.
 Elo
drawelo 0.01, mm,  CrazyStone-0002   2713
drawelo 0.01, mm 1 1,  CrazyStone-0002   2767
drawelo 20,   mm,  CrazyStone-0002   2746


I'll connect Crazy Stone to 19x19 too.


Thanks!

Hiroshi Yamashita

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Facebook Go AI

[Rémi Coulom]

It is darkforest, indeed:

Title: Better Computer Go Player with Neural Network and Long-term 
Prediction


Authors: Yuandong Tian, Yan Zhu

Abstract:
Competing with top human players in the ancient game of Go has been a 
long-term goal of artificial intelligence. Go's high branching factor 
makes traditional search techniques ineffective, even on leading-edge 
hardware, and Go's evaluation function could change drastically with one 
stone change. Recent works [Maddison et al. (2015); Clark & Storkey 
(2015)] show that search is not strictly necessary for machine Go 
players. A pure pattern-matching approach, based on a Deep Convolutional 
Neural Network (DCNN) that predicts the next move, can perform as well 
as Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)-based open source Go engines such as 
Pachi [Baudis & Gailly (2012)] if its search budget is limited. We 
extend this idea in our bot named darkforest, which relies on a DCNN 
designed for long-term predictions. Darkforest substantially improves 
the win rate for pattern-matching approaches against MCTS-based 
approaches, even with looser search budgets. Against human players, 
darkforest achieves a stable 1d-2d level on KGS Go Server, estimated 
from free games against human players. This substantially improves the 
estimated rankings reported in Clark & Storkey (2015), where DCNN-based 
bots are estimated at 4k-5k level based on performance against other 
machine players. Adding MCTS to darkforest creates a much stronger 
player: with only 1000 rollouts, darkforest+MCTS beats pure darkforest 
90% of the time; with 5000 rollouts, our best model plus MCTS beats 
Pachi with 10,000 rollouts 95.5% of the time.


http://arxiv.org/abs/1511.06410

Rémi

On 11/03/2015 08:32 PM, Nick Wedd wrote:
I think this Facebook AI may be the program playing on KGS as 
darkforest and darkfores1.


Nick

On 3 November 2015 at 14:28, Petr Baudis > wrote:


  Hi!

  Facebook is working on a Go AI too, now:

https://www.facebook.com/Engineering/videos/10153621562717200/
https://code.facebook.com/posts/1478523512478471

http://www.wired.com/2015/11/facebook-is-aiming-its-ai-at-go-the-game-no-computer-can-crack/

The way it's presented triggers my hype alerts, but nevertheless:
does anyone know any details about this?  Most interestingly, how
strong is it?

--
Petr Baudis
If you have good ideas, good data and fast computers,
you can do almost anything. -- Geoffrey Hinton
___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org 
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go




--
Nick Wedd mapr...@gmail.com 


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] CGOS again

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi Hiroshi,

Thanks for taking care of CGOS.

drawelo 0.01 was suggested when komi was 7.5. When draws are possible, 
it should be higher.


You can estimate a good value of drawelo if you have many games, by 
running "mm 1 1" instead of just "mm". It just estimates the 
maximum-likelihood value of drawelo by itself. Or just set drawelo to 20 
or something like this. It does not matter much, anyway.


I'll connect Crazy Stone to 19x19 too.

Rémi

On 11/20/2015 12:11 PM, Hiroshi Yamashita wrote:

Hi,

Now CGOS has recent 300 games on cross-table page.
http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/9x9/cross/CrazyStone-0002.html
Back color red is Loss, and green is Draw.

And I added BayesElo pages.
http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/9x9/bayes.html
Thanks a lot for your support, Joshua!

Now CGOS handles Draw in 9x9.
Remi, is this setting OK? I also use your program "bayeselo".

drawelo 0.01

I found this from 8 yeae's ago mail.
https://www.mail-archive.com/computer-go@computer-go.org/msg05740.html

In 19x19, two DCNN programs are running.
http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/19x19/standings.html
DCNN-Detlf uses Detlef's network data.
DCNN-No133 uses original learning data by Fukumoto-san, author of 
HiraBot.
Both bot are running by Fukumoto-san, and they make a move without 
search.


Regards,
Hiroshi Yamashita

- Original Message - From: "Rémi Coulom" <remi.cou...@free.fr>
To: <computer-go@computer-go.org>
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2015 2:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Computer-go] CGOS again



Hi Hiroshi,

Thanks a lot for running CGOS!

I have just connected Crazy Stone. It is running on one core of my 
web server:

Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N2800   @ 1.86GHz
I plan to let it play forever.

I noticed the game gets blocked for a long time when Aya resigns. I 
suppose that may be on purpose.


Rémi

On 11/10/2015 02:11 PM, Hiroshi Yamashita wrote:

Hi,

I have started CGOS on my VPS(Virtual Private Server).
19x19 and 9x9 are running.
In 9x9, komi is 7.0. Draw is 0.5 win in rating calc.
I'll keep it running for a while.
13x13 is running on original server.

  time   serverportkomi
9x9  5 minutesyss-aya.com   68097.0
19x19   15 minutesyss-aya.com   68197.5
13x13   10 minutescgos.boardspace.net   68137.5

http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/
http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/9x9/standings.html
http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/19x19/standings.html

Regards,
Hiroshi Yamashita

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Simple GUI for visualizing NN probabilities?

[Rémi Coulom]

I recommend gogui's analyze commands.

You can see a screenshot there (using cboard):
http://www.remi-coulom.fr/Amsterdam2007/
(Logarithmic scale Blue

Re: [Computer-go] Mylin Valley The World Computer Weiqi Tournament

[Rémi Coulom]

Thanks Hiroshi. This seems to be a more recent post:

http://51wq.lianzhong.com/Home/NewsDetails?newsID=546=%25e7%2584%25a6%25e7%2582%25b9%25e6%2596%25b0%25e9%2597%25bb

Congratulations to Dol Baram!

Rémi

On 11/13/2015 01:17 PM, Hiroshi Yamashita wrote:

Hi,

It seems DolBaram won. (from last photo on web)

1st DolBaram
2nd Zen
3rd ManyFaces of Go
4th Ray
http://51wq.lianzhong.com/Home/NewsDetails?newsID=539=%25e7%2584%25a6%25e7%2582%25b9%25e6%2596%25b0%25e9%2597%25bb 



Hiroshi Yamashita

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] CGOS again

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi Hiroshi,

Thanks a lot for running CGOS!

I have just connected Crazy Stone. It is running on one core of my web 
server:

Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N2800   @ 1.86GHz
I plan to let it play forever.

I noticed the game gets blocked for a long time when Aya resigns. I 
suppose that may be on purpose.


Rémi

On 11/10/2015 02:11 PM, Hiroshi Yamashita wrote:

Hi,

I have started CGOS on my VPS(Virtual Private Server).
19x19 and 9x9 are running.
In 9x9, komi is 7.0. Draw is 0.5 win in rating calc.
I'll keep it running for a while.
13x13 is running on original server.

  time   serverportkomi
9x9  5 minutesyss-aya.com   68097.0
19x19   15 minutesyss-aya.com   68197.5
13x13   10 minutescgos.boardspace.net   68137.5

http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/
http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/9x9/standings.html
http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/19x19/standings.html

Regards,
Hiroshi Yamashita

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Understanding statistics for benchmarking

[Rémi Coulom]

The intervals given by gogui are the standard deviation, not the usual 
95% confidence intervals.


For 95% confidence intervals, you have to multiply the standard 
deviation by two.


And you still have the 5% chance of not being inside the interval, so 
you can still get the occasional non-overlapping intervals.


Likelihood of superiority is an interesting statistical tool:
https://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/LOS+Table

For more advanced tools for deciding when to stop testing, there is SPRT:
http://www.open-chess.org/viewtopic.php?f=5=2477
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequential_probability_ratio_test

Rémi

On 11/03/2015 09:38 AM, Urban Hafner wrote:

So,

I’m currently running 200 games against GnuGo to see if a change to my 
program made a difference. But I now wonder if that’s enough games as 
I ran the same benchmark with the same code (but a different compiler 
version) and received different results:


85.5% wins (171 games of 200) the first time (+/- 2.5 according to 
gogui-twogtp)
79.0% wins (158 games of 200) the second time (+/- 2.9 according to 
gogui-twogtp)


Looking at these results would make me believe that the difference is 
significant (the intervals don’t overlap) but then the real difference 
is only 13 wins …


My statistics knowledge is sketchy at best but assuming that what 
gogui-twogtp calculates is the 95% confidence interval (I’m pretty 
sure I’m mixing terms here) it could well be that the difference 
between the two runs above is just random.


So, this leads me to two questions:

1. How many games do you normally run to test if a change is 
significant “enough”?
2. Any good resources on how to calculate these statistics (i.e. if I 
wanted to find the error margin for a 99% confidence interval)?


Urban
--
Blog: http://bettong.net/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ujh
Homepage: http://www.urbanhafner.com/


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Facebook Go AI

[Rémi Coulom]

Can a strong player look at the video and give impressions about the game?

On 11/03/2015 03:28 PM, Petr Baudis wrote:

   Hi!

   Facebook is working on a Go AI too, now:

https://www.facebook.com/Engineering/videos/10153621562717200/
https://code.facebook.com/posts/1478523512478471

http://www.wired.com/2015/11/facebook-is-aiming-its-ai-at-go-the-game-no-computer-can-crack/

The way it's presented triggers my hype alerts, but nevertheless:
does anyone know any details about this?  Most interestingly, how
strong is it?



___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] KGS bot tournaments - what are your opinions?

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi Nick,

If you are to limit hardware in one tournament, I would prefer that it 
is not the slow tournament. The slow tournament is interesting because 
it pushes programs to their limits.


Rémi

On 10/10/2015 07:28 PM, Nick Wedd wrote:
Thanks to everyone for their interest and responses.  The second and 
third questions are easy:  I shall keep the zeroes in the "annual" 
table, and I shall update the crosstable after each round whenever 
this is convenient for me.  I really don't feel qualified to 
contribute to question 1, the "limited hardware" issue.  I like the 
idea of making the Slow tournaments limited to one core, one 
processor, one thread, or whatever, so as to reduce power consumed and 
contribute less to global warming, but I don't know if there is a 
practicable way of doing this.


I hope you will continue to discuss question 1.

Nick

On 10 October 2015 at 17:06, Jim O'Flaherty 
> wrote:


I second Peter's response.

On Oct 10, 2015 10:33 AM, "Peter Drake" > wrote:

I'm also for no limits, if only because there's no way to
enforce them.

If there is to be a limited division, I'd like to see all
programs run on identical hardware.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 6:07 AM, Hiroshi Yamashita
> wrote:

Hi Nick,

I'd like no limit. Restriction will lose a chance of massive
computer's programming. But one thread limit tournament
once a year may be interesting.

I like (2), and (3) is nice, but I'm already happy with
your reports!

Regards,
Hiroshi Yamashita


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org

http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go




-- 
Peter Drake

https://sites.google.com/a/lclark.edu/drake/

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org 
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org 
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go




--
Nick Wedd mapr...@gmail.com 


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] KGS bot tournaments - what are your opinions?

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi Nick,

I don’t care much about having a limit on processing power. I’d be happy either 
way.

Cloud computing platforms like Amazon EC2 allows to rent powerful servers at a 
low price. The machine I used for the tournament cost me 0.3$/hour or so. So 
the argument that only rich or academic people can get powerful hardware is not 
good. A cluster of 8 such machines would still be quite cheap. And making an 
efficient distributed search algorithm is an interesting and challenging 
technical problem. So I feel it is interesting to allow big clusters.

Thanks for organizing the KGS tournaments, by the way.

Rémi


On 7 oct. 2015, at 12:27, Nick Wedd  wrote:

> I am thinking of making some small changes to the way I run bot tournaments 
> on KGS.  If you have ever taken part in a KGS bot tournament, I would like to 
> hear your opinions on three things.
> 
> 
> 1.  Limit on processor power?
> 
> This is the main point on which I want your opinions.  The other two are 
> trivial.
> 
> Several people have suggested to me that these events would be fairer if 
> there were a limit on the computing power of the entrants. I would like to do 
> this, but I don't know how. I have little understanding of the terminology, I 
> don't know how e.g. multiple cores in one computer compare with multiple 
> computers on one network, and I don't know how to count a graphics card.  If 
> someone can find a way to specify an upper limit to permitted power which is 
> clear and easy to understand, and if most entrants would favor imposing such 
> a limit, I will discuss what it should be, and apply it.  I am not able to 
> check what entrants are really running on, but I will trust people.
> 
> 
> 2. Zeroes in the "Annual Championship" table.
> 
> The table at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/annual/index.html has a 0 in a cell 
> where a program competed but did not score, and a blank where it did not 
> compete (at least it should do, I sometimes get it wrong). I would prefer to 
> omit these zeroes, they seem a bit rude. Also there is no clear distinction 
> between competing and not competing - how should I treat a program which 
> crashes and disappears after two rounds, or one (like AyaMC last Sunday) 
> which plays in every round but is broken and has no chance of winning?  I 
> realise that the zeroes some convey information that may be of interest.  
> Should I continue to use them, or just leave those cells blank?
> 
> 
> 3. Live crosstable
> 
> When I write up my reports, I include a crosstable, like the one near the top 
> of http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/116/index.html .  This is easy for me, I 
> run a script which reads the data from the KGS page 
> (http://www.gokgs.com/tournEntrants.jsp?sort=s=990 in this case) and 
> builds the crosstable in html, which I copy into the tournament report. It 
> only works for Swiss (and maybe Round Robin) tournaments. It works while the 
> tournament is still running, though only between rounds.I could build a 
> current crosstable each round during a tournament if there is any demand for 
> it.
> 
> -- 
> Nick Wedd  mapr...@gmail.com
> ___
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] KGS bot tournaments - what are your opinions?

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi Nick, 


I don’t care much about having a limit on processing power. I’d be happy either 
way. 


Cloud computing platforms like Amazon EC2 allows to rent powerful servers at a 
low price. The machine I used for the tournament cost me 0.3$/hour or so. So 
the argument that only rich or academic people can get powerful hardware is not 
good. A cluster of 8 such machines would still be quite cheap. And making an 
efficient distributed search algorithm is an interesting and challenging 
technical problem. So I feel it is interesting to allow big clusters. 

I can beat them on a single machine anyway ;-) 



Thanks for organizing the KGS tournaments, by the way. 


Rémi 





On 7 oct. 2015, at 12:27, Nick Wedd < mapr...@gmail.com > wrote: 



I am thinking of making some small changes to the way I run bot tournaments on 
KGS. If you have ever taken part in a KGS bot tournament, I would like to hear 
your opinions on three things. 




1. Limit on processor power? 


This is the main point on which I want your opinions. The other two are 
trivial. 


Several people have suggested to me that these events would be fairer if there 
were a limit on the computing power of the entrants. I would like to do this, 
but I don't know how. I have little understanding of the terminology, I don't 
know how e.g. multiple cores in one computer compare with multiple computers on 
one network, and I don't know how to count a graphics card. If someone can find 
a way to specify an upper limit to permitted power which is clear and easy to 
understand, and if most entrants would favor imposing such a limit, I will 
discuss what it should be, and apply it. I am not able to check what entrants 
are really running on, but I will trust people. 




2. Zeroes in the "Annual Championship" table. 


The table at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/annual/index.html has a 0 in a cell 
where a program competed but did not score, and a blank where it did not 
compete (at least it should do, I sometimes get it wrong). I would prefer to 
omit these zeroes, they seem a bit rude. Also there is no clear distinction 
between competing and not competing - how should I treat a program which 
crashes and disappears after two rounds, or one (like AyaMC last Sunday) which 
plays in every round but is broken and has no chance of winning? I realise that 
the zeroes some convey information that may be of interest. Should I continue 
to use them, or just leave those cells blank? 




3. Live crosstable 


When I write up my reports, I include a crosstable, like the one near the top 
of http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/116/index.html . This is easy for me, I 
run a script which reads the data from the KGS page ( 
http://www.gokgs.com/tournEntrants.jsp?sort=s=990 in this case) and builds 
the crosstable in html, which I copy into the tournament report. It only works 
for Swiss (and maybe Round Robin) tournaments. It works while the tournament is 
still running, though only between rounds.I could build a current crosstable 
each round during a tournament if there is any demand for it. 


-- 

Nick Wedd mapr...@gmail.com ___ 
Computer-go mailing list 
Computer-go@computer-go.org 
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go 


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] kgsGtp 3.5.20 has a problem?

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi Hiroshi,

It is too bad kgsGtp crashed for Aya yesterday. I was using kgsGtp 
3.5.20, and did not have this problem. Maybe it depends on the version 
of java. I was using default-jre (OpenJDK) in the Ubuntu LTS distro of 
Amazon AWS.


Rémi

On 10/05/2015 01:47 AM, Hiroshi Yamashita wrote:

Hi,

Today I lost all games on time in KGS tournament.
Sorry I did not check well.
Today I replaced latest kgsGtp 3.5.20. And looks like
kgsGtp stops after sending "time_left" command.

I found some people have reported this problem.

new kgsGtp client does not work for me, tournament soon
http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/2014-November/006947.html
http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/2015-July/007740.html
kgsGTP client
http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/2015-September/007914.html

kgsGtp 3.5.10 works well.
I put kgsGtp 3.5.10.
http://www.yss-aya.com/kgsGtp-3.5.10.tar.gz

Regards,
Hiroshi Yamashita

-

<--list_commands
-->=--> -->protocol_version
...
-->
<--name
-->=--> -->
<--version
-->=--> -->
<--boardsize 19
-->=--> -->
<--time_settings 2850 0 0
<--boardsize 19
-->=--> -->
<--clear_board
-->=--> -->
<--komi 7.5
-->=--> -->
<--time_settings 2850 0 0
-->=--> -->
<--genmove b
-->=--> -->R17-->
<--time_left b 2699 0
-->=--> -->

java.lang.NullPointerException
   at com.gokgs.client.gtp.y.a(kgsgtp:22)
   at com.gokgs.client.gtp.z.a(kgsgtp:58)
   at org.igoweb.igoweb.client.gtp.aT.a(kgsgtp:107)
   at org.igoweb.igoweb.client.gtp.aM.b(kgsgtp:85)
   at org.igoweb.igoweb.client.gtp.aa.a(kgsgtp:246)
   at org.igoweb.igoweb.client.gtp.c.a(kgsgtp:395)
   at org.igoweb.igoweb.client.gtp.c.a(kgsgtp:378)
   at org.igoweb.igoweb.client.gtp.c.d(kgsgtp:368)
   at org.igoweb.igoweb.client.gtp.ad.a(kgsgtp:164)
   at org.igoweb.igoweb.client.gtp.c.a(kgsgtp:158)
   at org.igoweb.igoweb.client.gtp.al.a(kgsgtp:48)
   at org.igoweb.igoweb.client.gtp.am.a(kgsgtp:431)
   at org.igoweb.igoweb.client.gtp.aq.run(kgsgtp:298)
   at org.igoweb.igoweb.client.gtp.at.a(kgsgtp:18)
   at org.igoweb.igoweb.client.gtp.au.run(kgsgtp:97)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)




___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] EGC2015 Events

[Rémi Coulom]

Yes. The list contains only players that have at least one win, one 
loss, and one game in the past year.


I will also produce historical rating lists for each month of the past. 
That will be online soon.


Rémi

On 08/03/2015 04:44 PM, Xavier Combelle wrote:
Just curious, why in the statistics it is mentioned  1475 players and 
in the list only 602. Does the list mention only players having 
playing recently ?



2015-07-29 21:32 GMT+02:00 Rémi Coulom remi.cou...@free.fr 
mailto:remi.cou...@free.fr:


Lee Hajin is also quite a bit weaker than Yoda Norimoto or Cho Chikun.

BTW, this gives me the opportunity to advertise my new web site
that rates go professionals with the WHR rating algorithm and
go4go.net http://go4go.net data:

http://www.goratings.org/

Rank/Name/Elo

108 Yoda Norimoto 2274
183 Cho Chikun 2188
448 Lee Hajin 1957

Rémi


On 07/29/2015 09:22 PM, Petr Baudis wrote:

   Indeed.  We (well, mainly I) thought that since Aya is
running on
a weaker computer, 5 stones might be about right, but now I'm
a bit
worried that I made the game too tough for white after all.

   Still, there's a big audience (surprised us a bit), maybe
150 people,
and they seem to be enjoying it!

On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 09:14:14PM +0200, Rémi Coulom wrote:

Great! Thanks. 5 stones against Aya is brave.

On 07/29/2015 08:21 PM, Petr Baudis wrote:

   Hi!

   There are several Computer Go events on EGC2015. 
There was a small

tournament of programs, played out on identical
hardware by each,
won by Aya:

https://www.gokgs.com/tournEntrants.jsp?sort=sid=981

   Then, one of the games, Aya vs. Many Faces, was
reviewed by Lukas
Podpera 6d:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3Lk1qVoiYM

   Right now, Hajin Lee 3p (known for her live
commentaries on Youtube
as Haylee) is playing Aya (giving 5 stones) and
commenting live:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka2ilmu7Eo4

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
mailto:Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org mailto:Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go




___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go