Re: [CGUYS] Insurance and National Security [was: Intensive care unit]
Once again, you and I are the government, so are you confessing? Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 9, 2009, at 4:59 PM, mike wrote: Government is nothing but a bunch of crooks. And while some people want to defend these crooks when they do have a vested interest is totally beyond me. On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: Exactly. Insurance companies are nothing but a bunch of crooks. And while some people want to defend these crooks when they have no vested interest is totally beyond me. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 9, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: The problem in some areas is that they think people look act and think monolithic or homogeneous. I am not one who could really be called a liberal (Well if compared to a John Bircher maybe) I do not vote straight party tickets and normally do not vote Democratic (I vote based on Candidate) I do not agree with nor support all of Pres. Obama's initiatives. I just happen to be p0assionate about this one Topic Health care reform. I think most of what has been seen on public airwaves is disinformation from both sides and is political in nature. There is too much money involved from many sides to seriously look at helth care reform because way too many lobbyists have a vested interest. I just spent a half hour on the phone trying to get a prescription for my wife. This is not anew medication it is not an experimental medication it is one that is advertised on TV a lot. Problem is it is name brand and my prescription plan does not want to pay the bucks for her to have it. Because it hurts the bottom line. So I take out of my productivity to get the company to do what they have been paid to do, instead of circling their wagons and denying everything that is supposed to happen. (I am finding that they loose information and do not keep real good track of their phone logs.) This is the type of health care system we defend and cheer on and do not want to change? They have all sorts of electronic information in front of them and instead of making human decisions they allow the computer to make it for them and then do not stand behind it when pushed? How stupid. Stewart At 11:54 AM 9/9/2009, b_s-wilk wrote: I've met Paglia. Friends have attended her classes. She's a phony, even more than Ayn Rand--at least Rand believed some of what she wrote [but didn't follow], while Paglia writes something to see how many people get excited and give her the attention she doesn't deserve. If you believe that she's accurate, you're more gullible than I thought. Camille sez, ...This Salon column is my sole Web presence... Thank goodness. Just because many of us actually think about issues, analyzing details, and acting on the results, that doesn't mean we're sheeple. But to Libertarians, all who aren't like them are sheeple. They want to do what they want to do, when they want to do it, how they want to do it, disregarding all others, until they get sick or lose their jobs or homes and need help. Even the churches and NGO nonprofits get some of their precious money from the feds in the taxes they don't pay and the grants from local/state/federal agencies. Why do you fear the government? Because you've chosen to avoid it and not participate, letting others make decisions for you? Were you drafted to go to war? Have you ever testified at gummint hearings? Campaigned? Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ **
Re: [CGUYS] Insurance and National Security [was: Intensive care unit]
Yeah, you pretty much got it. If we are going to allow you to legally run a protection racket we are going to bring it into reality when it comes to profit. If this is beyond understanding let me put it another way. Any future kids you have you have to pay insurance for in case they might have a brain cloud. And you have to start paying today. Of course in the future I might say your child really doesn't have a brain cloud. She/he's not covered. To bad, so sad. Meanwhile as your insurance coverer I sit on the beach sipping on my margarita. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 9, 2009, at 8:24 PM, Steve at Verizon wrote: So you are in favor of nationalizing, not just the health insurance companies, but also life insurance and automobile insurance? Your logic would apply to them as well. Or if not nationalize, make them provide the same coverage to everybody for the same cost. For life insurance you should pay the same premium if you are 24 or 64, smoke or not smoke, have a preexisting condition (i.e. Stage 4 cancer). And your auto insurance should be the same, independent of your age (Boy would I have liked that when I was 21!) or driving record. phartz...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 7:52 PM, Jeff Milesjmile...@charter.net wrote: Exactly. Insurance companies are nothing but a bunch of crooks. And while some people want to defend these crooks when they have no vested interest is totally beyond me. Of course, an awful lot of those opposed to change do, in fact, have vested interests in insurance companies. I think that is the big elephant in the room that does not want to get talked about. Many folks make a lot of money when insurance companies carry on exactly as Obama described tonight. To tighten up on them would decrease the profitability for stockholders. Additionally, insurance companies provide the underwriting for many big construction projects such as hotels, shopping centers, urban renewal projects, etc. Money tied up in those projects wants to see that insurance companies remain quite profitable. They do not care how much those who are insured get ripped off as long as the profitability of the insurance companies remains high. I need not even mention how much money our politicians get from insurance companies. As always, to find the answer, just follow the money. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Back to dial up
This all leads me to a question. My mother bought into the ATT plan with the little USB thing. She could get wireless internet like a cell phone. She went to Mexico recently (was basically just over the border) and was cut off from ATT because of the charges she'd incurred. She used the internet to check her email for about 2 hours all total and the bill is close to $1k. Is this total BS or what? Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 9, 2009, at 9:43 PM, Eric S. Sande wrote: I've had excellent results with local--more or less--Verizon CSRs. They've been very helpful and generous with credits and offers. It pays to be persistent, as my friend was. I expect no less. Hence my surprise. My customers would not be happy with outsourced tech support, in fact they'd call me directly if they had less than a prompt, helpful and knowledgeable response. I'm glad your friend was well served. That's the kind of response I'd take as a matter of course. Verizon doesn't compete on price, with a union workforce we can't. Where we hope to shine is on knowledge, service delivery, reliability and responsiveness. I discussed my experience with my team today, as an object lesson in how to do it wrong. We just don't operate that way. Granted the people I called didn't know who I was or would have cared if they did, but the bottom line is that I was a customer with a problem. Yes, my problem was fixed, but the methodology and the presentation absolutely sucked. That would not happen in my shop. I should not have to travel to India, then run around Robin Hood's barn whilst being misinformed about a problem that I was completely capable of technically understanding. That is freaking unacceptable. It should not be necessary for me to escalate to supervision to fix a Verizon glitch. Which I did not do because it is more important to me to understand what the typical experience is like than to fix the problem immediately, which I could have done at any time--because I have connections. But most people don't. I know that it is torture for senior citizens to navigate phone menus, which is why I'm my mother's tech support. We don't do a good job in this area, you pretty much have to know an insider to get satisfaction. That didn't use to be the case. You once could call one number and the first thing you'd hear was a friendly voice speaking your brand of English, maybe someone you knew. Maybe not, but they'd listen, and if they couldn't solve the problem right there they'd find someone who could. Not any more. Believe me, I was pissed off with a capital P. Actually, I still am. If my 81 year old mother has a DSL issue, is she calling India? Will they solve the problem? This has gone too far, I'm raising Hell. At some point the bean counting has to stop and the ethics and values have to kick back in. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Keyboard problem
This is the thin, low profile, full width, aluminum, $50 keyboard, which I love. I cover it when I'm not using it, nothing was spilled on it and the keys that failed are all in a row and failed the same day. Doesn't that suggest that the failure is electronic rather than a physical problem with individual keys. I popped off a key to reveal a clean membrain. Thanks b_s-wilk wrote: Have you tried popping off the keys to see what the problem might be? In the past I've found that keyboard malfunctions have been physical problems and not computer/circuit board problems. Notice the pattern? Did you spill something on your computer? Both the white and the black Apple keyboards were easy to clean, even in the dishwasher. You could open them. They're plastic mostly. A new white keyboard cost me around $28 last year at the Apple store in Delaware My new iMac came with the wired aluminum keyboard. I suppose you could open it for cleaning [with a sharp knife, voiding the warranty?], but I haven't tried. Instead I bought a keyboard skin [ice] to protect it. Good thing, too. My cats like to walk on the keyboard. I'm not nervous about putting drinks near my keyboard now. A keyboard skin won't help you now, but once you get your keyboard clean, it will make a difference. Mine is thin and doesn't affect the feel of the keyboard much. Found it on eBay. The dishwasher cleaning appears to work with the aluminum keyboard too, http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1930818, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XbPpdxnm6sNR=1feature=fvwp. Yes you can open an aluminum keyboard, http://mustardhamsters.com/?p=86, but will it work when you close it!! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Insurance and National Security [was: Intensive care unit]
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Steve at Verizonstevet...@verizon.net wrote: So you are in favor of nationalizing, not just the health insurance companies, but also life insurance and automobile insurance? Your logic would apply to them as well. What logic are you ascribing to me? All I said was that the huge amounts of money being made by health insurance companies, and the attendant dividends being paid to their stockholders, is a big part of the equation in terms of why so many are against reform of the insurance end of the health care debate, and that issue not being talked about much at all. Indeed, when Obama spoke to that last night and talked of making sure that insurance companies play fair and square, as opposed to stacking the deck in their favor, denying insurance and/or benefits primarily to enhance their profits, the Republican side of the audience sat in stony silence as all the rest applauded. As was asked earlier by a member of this list, why do people want to support and cheer on a system that is so lopsided and acts so arbitrarily? Why the opposition to ensuring a fair shake for all? The answer is in the money trail, and that was my original point that you seemingly objected to. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] first guinea pig?
I too installed it (on a PC) last night, and now it doesn't recognize my iPod touch.? What's supposed to happen is that when I connect the Touch to the PC, iTunes is supposed to start up and sync the two.? It used to work with 8.0.? Will be contacting tech support when they open their desk at 6am West Coast time (9am here). Date:Wed, 9 Sep 2009 21:41:45 -0400 From:katan ka...@his.com Subject: Re: first guinea pig? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 9 Sep 2009 15:09:54 -0700, Mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: iTunes 9? Anyone? Anyone? You inspired me. I just downloaded and installed it. Not exactly a power user, but no real problems. I didn't even have to restart my computer. :-0 The Browser has a few more options. You can leave it at the top or put it along the side a la Apple's Finder. You can add more columns for browsing. In addition to Artist, Genre, and Album, you can add Groupings and Composers. Not too sure of their usefulness (for me anyway). You can also remove the original three columns. They have something called Genius Mixes. Don't know anything about that, but then again, I never bothered with Genius before. Party Shuffle/iTunes DJ is good enough for me. They've added Home Sharing so you can share libraries, and transfer tunes, from different computers on your network. I'm not sure if you can only share purchased iTunes or anything in your libraries. The tutorial video has you log into your iTunes acount on all the computers you want to share. So far I've only got one computer running 9.0 so can't really test it. Of course, now I've got to go back through and kill off iTunesHelper, iPod services and Bonjour *yet again*. I'm sure there's more to it, but like I said, not exactly a power user. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] US broadband: could be worse
We shouldn't complain about U.S. broadband. Check this article about broadband in South Africa. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1212214/Company-enlists-Winston-homing-pigeon-carry-data-transfer--faster-broadband.html Or: http://tinyurl.com/nszden It's not mentioned in the article, but a test run has been completed. When the pigeon arrived with the memory card, a broadband transfer of the same data was 4% complete. And they are serious--this is not some kind of protest or demonstration. They are planning to do this routinely. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] US broadband: could be worse
This might actually work for us too, since video files are still too large to transfer via the internet. I wonder how many 3.5 drives a pigeon could carry? Or, how many pigeons would we need to reliably transfer say, 1tb of data via flash drives. I imagine some would get lost/killed, so there would need to be redundancy. On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Chris Dunford seed...@gmail.com wrote: We shouldn't complain about U.S. broadband. Check this article about broadband in South Africa. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1212214/Company-enlists-Winston-homing-pigeon-carry-data-transfer--faster-broadband.html Or: http://tinyurl.com/nszden It's not mentioned in the article, but a test run has been completed. When the pigeon arrived with the memory card, a broadband transfer of the same data was 4% complete. And they are serious--this is not some kind of protest or demonstration. They are planning to do this routinely. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] US broadband: could be worse
1tb is the province of pedicabs, very reliable. --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Tony B ton...@gmail.com wrote: From: Tony B ton...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [CGUYS] US broadband: could be worse To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 10:47 AM This might actually work for us too, since video files are still too large to transfer via the internet. I wonder how many 3.5 drives a pigeon could carry? Or, how many pigeons would we need to reliably transfer say, 1tb of data via flash drives. I imagine some would get lost/killed, so there would need to be redundancy. On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Chris Dunford seed...@gmail.com wrote: We shouldn't complain about U.S. broadband. Check this article about broadband in South Africa. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1212214/Company-enlists-Winston-homing-pigeon-carry-data-transfer--faster-broadband.html Or: http://tinyurl.com/nszden It's not mentioned in the article, but a test run has been completed. When the pigeon arrived with the memory card, a broadband transfer of the same data was 4% complete. And they are serious--this is not some kind of protest or demonstration. They are planning to do this routinely. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] US broadband: could be worse
-Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:computerguy...@listserv.aol.com] On Behalf Of Tony B Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:47 AM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] US broadband: could be worse This might actually work for us too, since video files are still too large to transfer via the internet. I wonder how many 3.5 drives a pigeon could carry? Or, how many pigeons would we need to reliably transfer say, 1tb of data via flash drives. I imagine some would get lost/killed, so there would need to be redundancy. Yes, that's true. You'd need a RAIB (a Redundant Array of Independent Birds). * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] US broadband: could be worse
Then it would be a flock? So you flock the stuff? Stewart At 11:59 AM 9/10/2009, you wrote: Yes, that's true. You'd need a RAIB (a Redundant Array of Independent Birds). Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Keyboard problem
In that case I'd say yes. It's probably an electronic failure. Is it still under warrantee? After this discussion of keyboards I got to looking and thinking. I hate the flat keys Apple is now using. I prefer the indented type. No pun intended. But the touch and feel lets me know where my fingers are on the board. It's probably a personal thing, but still. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 10, 2009, at 5:02 AM, Jordan wrote: This is the thin, low profile, full width, aluminum, $50 keyboard, which I love. I cover it when I'm not using it, nothing was spilled on it and the keys that failed are all in a row and failed the same day. Doesn't that suggest that the failure is electronic rather than a physical problem with individual keys. I popped off a key to reveal a clean membrain. Thanks b_s-wilk wrote: Have you tried popping off the keys to see what the problem might be? In the past I've found that keyboard malfunctions have been physical problems and not computer/circuit board problems. Notice the pattern? Did you spill something on your computer? Both the white and the black Apple keyboards were easy to clean, even in the dishwasher. You could open them. They're plastic mostly. A new white keyboard cost me around $28 last year at the Apple store in Delaware My new iMac came with the wired aluminum keyboard. I suppose you could open it for cleaning [with a sharp knife, voiding the warranty?], but I haven't tried. Instead I bought a keyboard skin [ice] to protect it. Good thing, too. My cats like to walk on the keyboard. I'm not nervous about putting drinks near my keyboard now. A keyboard skin won't help you now, but once you get your keyboard clean, it will make a difference. Mine is thin and doesn't affect the feel of the keyboard much. Found it on eBay. The dishwasher cleaning appears to work with the aluminum keyboard too, http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1930818, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XbPpdxnm6sNR=1feature=fvwp . Yes you can open an aluminum keyboard, http://mustardhamsters.com/?p=86 , but will it work when you close it!! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Guys and GPS [and the moon]
One postscript on the GPS issue: don't get too used to relying on your GPS unit. The satellites on which GPS depends are aging and will need replacement very soon. No money has been appropriated for any replacement satellites, and you can't send the space shuttle up to fix them. So, basically, you're just one satellite failure away from having to get out your road maps and your compass. (The weather satellites [on which your nightly TV weather forecasts and Internet weather sites depend] are also wearing out and need to be replaced.) So maybe it's time to write your congressman and senators, if you like GPS [or weather forecasts of even marginal accuracy]. You might also remind your senators and your congressman that China and--surprisingly--India both have space programs and, among other goals, are aiming for the moon. I don't necessarily want the U.S. to do a land grab and claim the entire moon, but I don't want China to do it either. (Among other things, the moon could be a dandy gun platform, if an unfriendly government got hold of it. And, of course, the moon is the gateway to the rest of the solar system.) $3 billion, which is a lot of money but pocket change when you look at the stimulus program, would put NASA's moon program [as well as other programs] back on track--it's dead in the water right now, for lack of funds. I wonder what will be the predominant language of space exploration: English, or Chinese? --Constance Warner * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Insurance and National Security [was: Intensive care unit]
And here's a bit of personal observation. When someone does something wrong and are called on it they sit quiet. When they think they've done nothing wrong they tend to get up and shout and argue. So for me at least, I guess that tells you what I think about those during the speech who sat like they were in church, stoic I think is a good term. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 10, 2009, at 5:28 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Steve at Verizonstevet...@verizon.net wrote: So you are in favor of nationalizing, not just the health insurance companies, but also life insurance and automobile insurance? Your logic would apply to them as well. What logic are you ascribing to me? All I said was that the huge amounts of money being made by health insurance companies, and the attendant dividends being paid to their stockholders, is a big part of the equation in terms of why so many are against reform of the insurance end of the health care debate, and that issue not being talked about much at all. Indeed, when Obama spoke to that last night and talked of making sure that insurance companies play fair and square, as opposed to stacking the deck in their favor, denying insurance and/or benefits primarily to enhance their profits, the Republican side of the audience sat in stony silence as all the rest applauded. As was asked earlier by a member of this list, why do people want to support and cheer on a system that is so lopsided and acts so arbitrarily? Why the opposition to ensuring a fair shake for all? The answer is in the money trail, and that was my original point that you seemingly objected to. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gmail question...
I may misunderstand you, but are you looking for the Gmail recent mode? See http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=enanswer=47948 --Using POP on multiple clients or mobile devices Jennifer Hiebert On Sep 10, 2009, at 1:42 AM, db wrote: Yes... there is something going on... intentionally by design I think. And it keeps me from doing things I occasionally want to / need to do. If I knew what it was... that might be the first part of a fix/ workaround. db Paula Minor wrote: Now that you are all talking about this, I realized I've had problems with it too. I can send an email from my gmail acct to my gmail account all from Apple Mail with no problem. But if I send that message out and happen to check my mail on my laptop instead of the desk computer, I can no longer download it to my desk machine even tho the laptop is set to never remove messages from the server. And some msgs I've sent on my iPhone to myself never showed up. Im glad I'm not alone. Paula US/IN raven880atindy.net I'm now at the age where I've got to prove that I'm just as good as I never was.Rex Harrison * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] the moon
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:30 PM, Constance Warner cawar...@his.com wrote: You might also remind your senators and your congressman that China and--surprisingly--India both have space programs and, among other goals, are aiming for the moon. I don't necessarily want the U.S. to do a land grab and claim the entire moon, but I don't want China to do it either. Legally, we cannot do this. Neither can China. Neither can about 97 other nations who are parties to the Outer Space Treaty. (Among other things, the moon could be a dandy gun platform, if an unfriendly government got hold of it. Not really. Although there have been scifi stories with this theme, they assume that you have a colony there already that has a mass driver already built. It is also in violation of the Outer Space Treaty, as an aside. But I'm willing to assume that someone who wants to use it as a weapon is willing to ignore that fact. But the problem is that you still have to deal with orbital mechanics and distance and that pesky lunar gravity. Not to mention that we'd have a pretty good idea if somebody tried to build a gun there and have a reasonable amount of time to do something about it. And, of course, the moon is the gateway to the rest of the solar system.) Well... um... no. Not in the way I think you mean, anyway. The moon is a good small step when it comes to a space program... but its a lousy gateway. Nobody would put a station there with the purpose of launching missions to the rest of the galaxy from it. It does not seem like a good environment for any industry whatsoever, so any launches would have to import both fuel and launch vehicle... and why bother with lunar gravity (even if it is smaller than Earth gravity) at all in that case? The gateway to the rest of the solar system is an orbiting space station and manufacturing facility. Yes, you still have to deal with the gravity well of getting parts and fuel up there, but you don't have the limitations of fitting an entire trip inside a single launch vehicle. $3 billion, which is a lot of money but pocket change when you look at the stimulus program, would put NASA's moon program [as well as other programs] back on track--it's dead in the water right now, for lack of funds. Huh? I thought NASA's moon program is, unfortunately, still alive and sorta on schedule. We're abandoning our plans for a space station after our commitments are done and putting all our eggs into Ares/Orion. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] the moon
Huh? I thought NASA's moon program is, unfortunately, still alive and sorta on schedule. We're abandoning our plans for a space station after our commitments are done and putting all our eggs into Ares/Orion. As of this moment, it still is alive. However, a White House panel of experts has recommended canceling the moon plan in favor of other ways to get to Mars. I wish they'd recommended canceling the whole manned space program instead. It's staggeringly expensive and serves no clear purpose. Satellites and robots can do far more for far less. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] the moon
Yes, but sending a robot out has nowhere near the PR potential as a live person. And it's been done already. Besides, as a species, we can't actually say we walked there unless one of our feet hits the dirt. On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Chris Dunford seed...@gmail.com wrote: Huh? I thought NASA's moon program is, unfortunately, still alive and sorta on schedule. We're abandoning our plans for a space station after our commitments are done and putting all our eggs into Ares/Orion. As of this moment, it still is alive. However, a White House panel of experts has recommended canceling the moon plan in favor of other ways to get to Mars. I wish they'd recommended canceling the whole manned space program instead. It's staggeringly expensive and serves no clear purpose. Satellites and robots can do far more for far less. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] the moon
Yes, but sending a robot out has nowhere near the PR potential as a live person. And it's been done already. Besides, as a species, we can't actually say we walked there unless one of our feet hits the dirt. So, like I said, no real purpose. :) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Back to dial up
I think part of the problem is that there is an assumption that the problem is always at the customers end, and not the providers, even after going through the checklist. I had an issue with Outlook Express not running with a limited user last year. After working with Compaq's customer support over several weeks, reinstalling the operating system a few times, I finally reached a tech who saw real problem and sent out new XP installation disks, which resolved it. The first tech couldn't comprehend that the original installation disks were defective, even after I suggested that possibility. Perhaps if the customer service training included having an open mind when listening to the customer... In the meantime, it's great that you're following up on this to try and make sure that it's done better for all customers in the future. You can't stop equipment from breaking down, but you can change the customer experience when things do go wrong and they call in for help. Good luck. Just my 2 cents Richard P On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:43 AM, Eric S. Sande esa...@erols.com wrote: I discussed my experience with my team today, as an object lesson in how to do it wrong. We just don't operate that way. Granted the people I called didn't know who I was or would have cared if they did, but the bottom line is that I was a customer with a problem. Yes, my problem was fixed, but the methodology and the presentation absolutely sucked. That would not happen in my shop. I should not have to travel to India, then run around Robin Hood's barn whilst being misinformed about a problem that I was completely capable of technically understanding. That is freaking unacceptable. It should not be necessary for me to escalate to supervision to fix a Verizon glitch. Which I did not do because it is more important to me to understand what the typical experience is like than to fix the problem immediately, which I could have done at any time--because I have connections. But most people don't. I know that it is torture for senior citizens to navigate phone menus, which is why I'm my mother's tech support. We don't do a good job in this area, you pretty much have to know an insider to get satisfaction. That didn't use to be the case. You once could call one number and the first thing you'd hear was a friendly voice speaking your brand of English, maybe someone you knew. Maybe not, but they'd listen, and if they couldn't solve the problem right there they'd find someone who could. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] The Good Enough Revolution: When Cheap and Simple Is Just Fine
...Oddly, though, there was no point-and-shoot analogue in video cameras...Home videocams were almost without exception expensive, complicated devices loaded with features like image stabilization, night-vision mode, and onboard color correction...even with tools like Apple's iMovie, it was a hassle to get footage off the cameras and onto a computer for editing and sharing...the camcorder market resembled the SLR market, but with no low-end alternative. Kaplan and Braunstein suspected that there might be a place for a much cheaper, simpler video camera... After some trial and error, Pure Digital released what it called the Flip Ultra in 2007. The stripped-down camcorder...had lots of downsides. It captured relatively low-quality 640 x 480 footage...when Sony, Panasonic, and Canon were launching camcorders capable of recording in 1080 hi-def. It had a minuscule viewing screen, no color-adjustment features, and only the most rudimentary controls. It didn't even have an optical zoom. But it was small...inexpensive ($150, compared with $800 for a midpriced Sony), and so simple to operate—from recording to uploading—that pretty much anyone could figure it out in roughly 6.7 seconds... ...MP3... ...Skype... ...Kindle... ...Hulu... ...MQ1 Predator... http://www.wired.com/gadgets/miscellaneous/magazine/17-09/ff_goodenough?currentPage=all K.I.S.S. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] the moon
Huh? I thought NASA's moon program is, unfortunately, still alive and sorta on schedule. We're abandoning our plans for a space station after our commitments are done and putting all our eggs into Ares/Orion. As of this moment, it still is alive. However, a White House panel of experts has recommended canceling the moon plan in favor of other ways to get to Mars. I wish they'd recommended canceling the whole manned space program instead. It's staggeringly expensive and serves no clear purpose. Satellites and robots can do far more for far less. Spirit and Opportunity rovers have been on Mars for six years, since June/July 2003. They work on their own, make basic decisions on their own, send useful data back to the earth, don't complain, don't need food, clean themselves by finding dust devils. And Spirit has a broken wheel, is on low power due to lack of winter sunshine. http://marsrover.nasa.gov/overview/ Rovers were on a 90 day mission, now 6 years. Could humans do any better? Not likely. The next places to study are Europa or Titan, where you can't send people, but satellites provide plenty of good data. There's no scientific reason to send humans to space except maybe to repair satellites. But does it cost more for a space mission or to launch a new satellite [more space junk]? The technology isn't ready for a long mission with astronauts. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] the moon
By the way, I really liked James Cameron's idea. The whole capsule being a moon car. It lands, the wheels pop out and off you go. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:16 AM, Allen Firstenberg wrote: On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:30 PM, Constance Warner cawar...@his.com wrote: You might also remind your senators and your congressman that China and--surprisingly--India both have space programs and, among other goals, are aiming for the moon. I don't necessarily want the U.S. to do a land grab and claim the entire moon, but I don't want China to do it either. Legally, we cannot do this. Neither can China. Neither can about 97 other nations who are parties to the Outer Space Treaty. (Among other things, the moon could be a dandy gun platform, if an unfriendly government got hold of it. Not really. Although there have been scifi stories with this theme, they assume that you have a colony there already that has a mass driver already built. It is also in violation of the Outer Space Treaty, as an aside. But I'm willing to assume that someone who wants to use it as a weapon is willing to ignore that fact. But the problem is that you still have to deal with orbital mechanics and distance and that pesky lunar gravity. Not to mention that we'd have a pretty good idea if somebody tried to build a gun there and have a reasonable amount of time to do something about it. And, of course, the moon is the gateway to the rest of the solar system.) Well... um... no. Not in the way I think you mean, anyway. The moon is a good small step when it comes to a space program... but its a lousy gateway. Nobody would put a station there with the purpose of launching missions to the rest of the galaxy from it. It does not seem like a good environment for any industry whatsoever, so any launches would have to import both fuel and launch vehicle... and why bother with lunar gravity (even if it is smaller than Earth gravity) at all in that case? The gateway to the rest of the solar system is an orbiting space station and manufacturing facility. Yes, you still have to deal with the gravity well of getting parts and fuel up there, but you don't have the limitations of fitting an entire trip inside a single launch vehicle. $3 billion, which is a lot of money but pocket change when you look at the stimulus program, would put NASA's moon program [as well as other programs] back on track--it's dead in the water right now, for lack of funds. Huh? I thought NASA's moon program is, unfortunately, still alive and sorta on schedule. We're abandoning our plans for a space station after our commitments are done and putting all our eggs into Ares/Orion. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] the moon
Why unfortunately? The moon is a good place to get back to. What about that helium 3? Plus they've been talking about making fuel and building things from what they mine on the moon. Not saying it's going to happen tomorrow, but still, it's in the thinking. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:16 AM, Allen Firstenberg wrote: On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:30 PM, Constance Warner cawar...@his.com wrote: You might also remind your senators and your congressman that China and--surprisingly--India both have space programs and, among other goals, are aiming for the moon. I don't necessarily want the U.S. to do a land grab and claim the entire moon, but I don't want China to do it either. Legally, we cannot do this. Neither can China. Neither can about 97 other nations who are parties to the Outer Space Treaty. (Among other things, the moon could be a dandy gun platform, if an unfriendly government got hold of it. Not really. Although there have been scifi stories with this theme, they assume that you have a colony there already that has a mass driver already built. It is also in violation of the Outer Space Treaty, as an aside. But I'm willing to assume that someone who wants to use it as a weapon is willing to ignore that fact. But the problem is that you still have to deal with orbital mechanics and distance and that pesky lunar gravity. Not to mention that we'd have a pretty good idea if somebody tried to build a gun there and have a reasonable amount of time to do something about it. And, of course, the moon is the gateway to the rest of the solar system.) Well... um... no. Not in the way I think you mean, anyway. The moon is a good small step when it comes to a space program... but its a lousy gateway. Nobody would put a station there with the purpose of launching missions to the rest of the galaxy from it. It does not seem like a good environment for any industry whatsoever, so any launches would have to import both fuel and launch vehicle... and why bother with lunar gravity (even if it is smaller than Earth gravity) at all in that case? The gateway to the rest of the solar system is an orbiting space station and manufacturing facility. Yes, you still have to deal with the gravity well of getting parts and fuel up there, but you don't have the limitations of fitting an entire trip inside a single launch vehicle. $3 billion, which is a lot of money but pocket change when you look at the stimulus program, would put NASA's moon program [as well as other programs] back on track--it's dead in the water right now, for lack of funds. Huh? I thought NASA's moon program is, unfortunately, still alive and sorta on schedule. We're abandoning our plans for a space station after our commitments are done and putting all our eggs into Ares/Orion. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] the moon
I also forget to mention, a weapons platform on the moon wouldn't provide for much of a surprise attack. FIRE! And then 3 days later I hate hearing this idea of why are we sending people to space. Do you really think a robot could have fixed the Hubble the couple times it's needed to be fixed? I really doubt it. Do you really think we could gather the information needed on how space effects humans by a bunch of robots? And no clear purpose? How about the survival of the species? Have you ever heard that old saying, don't put all your eggs in one basket? That's a major reason for getting some of us off the planet. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:59 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: Huh? I thought NASA's moon program is, unfortunately, still alive and sorta on schedule. We're abandoning our plans for a space station after our commitments are done and putting all our eggs into Ares/Orion. As of this moment, it still is alive. However, a White House panel of experts has recommended canceling the moon plan in favor of other ways to get to Mars. I wish they'd recommended canceling the whole manned space program instead. It's staggeringly expensive and serves no clear purpose. Satellites and robots can do far more for far less. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] the moon
At least no real purpose for you in the next few years. Unless of course we name a toilet after you instead of John Stewart. Then you'd probably want to go visit that. I can't imagine where we'd be today if everyone thought like this back in the 1400's. Who needs a new world or another route to Asia? Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 10, 2009, at 12:34 PM, Chris Dunford wrote: Yes, but sending a robot out has nowhere near the PR potential as a live person. And it's been done already. Besides, as a species, we can't actually say we walked there unless one of our feet hits the dirt. So, like I said, no real purpose. :) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gmail question...
On Sep 9, 2009, at 8:26 PM, MrMike6by9 wrote: I guess I don't get it. I sent a msg to myself and it immediately appeared in my inbox with the from as me. And, of course, I have an outbound copy of that msg in my sent folder. Have you read through the email headers to see how it was routed? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] the moon
Do you really think a robot could have fixed the Hubble the couple times it's needed to be fixed? I really doubt it. We could have replaced Hubble for far less than we've spent on the shuttle program. Do you really think we could gather the information needed on how space effects humans by a bunch of robots? We know pretty much everything we need to know by now. And if we don't send people up there, we don't need to worry about it anyway. :) And no clear purpose? How about the survival of the species? Have you ever heard that old saying, don't put all your eggs in one basket? This is a very troubling argument. It boils down to, We can't stop ourselves from ruining the planet we have, so let's make sure we can move to Mars. We'd be much better off taking the untold trillions it would take to accomplish this and using it to protect what we already have. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] COMPUTERGUYS-L Digest - 10 Sep 2009 - Special issue (#2009-870)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnc0CeUT-Lc There is an old saying, and judging by the posts on here it is 100% accurate: You can't reason people out of positions they didn't reason themselves into. Too many people are partisan without ever really thinking about things. What I am looking for is the truth about health care. Obama didn't write the bill and he hasn't read it. Much of it is so vague it's impossible to tell what they mean...and that means it will be decided by some radical judge when the lawsuits are filed. One can draw some conclusions from the health care debate...this chief among them: Obama is a radical liberal at best...a socialist at worst. Same with Pelosi and Reid. I can't imagine any clear thinking person anywhere wants our country run by radicals of any party. Educate yourself. Keep an open mind. Gather all the facts, then make up your mind. Too many people make up their minds and ignore the facts if they don't agree with their position. We have plenty of those people in this list, that's for sure. Watch the link if you have an open mind. If you want the truth, and what's best for the country. If you are a socialist, at least be honest and admit it because that's the direction the democrats in Washington are taking us. I find this to be true also: The greedy aren't the capitalists. They are trying to make a living and I say power to them. It's the socialists who are selfish and greedy and I might add, cowardly. They want somebody else to give them everything because they lack the intestinal fortitude to work hard. They are spoiled brats who can't fend for themselves, or who waste the money they do have living in homes they can't afford, driving cars they can't afford, while living a lifestyle they can't afford. They CHOOSE not to buy insurance...so we need to subtract them from the 15% without insurance in this country...and that leaves us with 5 to 7% of our population uninsured. It is insane to wreck our health care system for drug addicts, the mentally ill and the lazy. Obama claims that nationalizing health care will create jobs. The only jobs that will be created are government jobs. Government produces no wealth and adds absolutely nothing to the gross national product. Obama claims that nationalizing health care will reduce the deficit. It's a lie, plain and simple. He can't be that stupid to think increasing the national debt by 9 trillion dollars reduces the debt, the deficit or will balance the budget. We have a segment of our population who must never have studied math...those numbers don't add up. Final straw: The politicians and the unions in this country are exempt. Politicians, or soon to be known as the ruling class, will have BETTER health care plans than you and I if this insanity known as Obamacare passes. Why? Well...they are the elite ruling class, we are the masses. And the unions...well, the unions destroyed the auto industry. That's not a debatable point. This is payback for supporting Obama, same as funding the south american oil company was payback to Soros for his support...he just happened to have invested heavily in that company a few months earlier. Can anyone say, insider trading? Corrupt from top to bottom, the Obama administration and the democrat party is. That's the way it is. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] the moon
I can't imagine where we'd be today if everyone thought like this back in the 1400's. Who needs a new world or another route to Asia? There isn't even a remote comparison between exploring Earth and sending a few people to the moon, sorry. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] the moon
There's a direct comparison. What part of moving on don't you understand? I've already mentioned helium 3, which I've heard could power the us for hundreds of years at less then the cost of what we spend on oil today. What other motivation do you need? I mean besides human growth and understanding of their place in the universe. 2+2=5, that's all I need to know. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 10, 2009, at 4:12 PM, Chris Dunford wrote: I can't imagine where we'd be today if everyone thought like this back in the 1400's. Who needs a new world or another route to Asia? There isn't even a remote comparison between exploring Earth and sending a few people to the moon, sorry. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] the moon
Do you mean the couple of flights by the space shuttle to repair Hubble, or the entire program? We have had around 160+ space shuttle flights. We know pretty much everything we need to know? Why didn't we stop with Aristotle? Hell, we knew everything we needed to know by then. What's a microchip? Who knows, who cares. I'll bet the casualties of Challenger and Columbia wish we knew more. And yes, it is troubling, but rather we kill our own planet, or some meteor does it for us, the point is, we need to spread out. I don't think dinosaur farts or their nuclear weapons wiped them out. If they only would have had the foresight to get to the moon and Mars. But no, they were dinosaurs with walnut sized brains. I'd like to think we're better. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 10, 2009, at 4:12 PM, Chris Dunford wrote: Do you really think a robot could have fixed the Hubble the couple times it's needed to be fixed? I really doubt it. We could have replaced Hubble for far less than we've spent on the shuttle program. Do you really think we could gather the information needed on how space effects humans by a bunch of robots? We know pretty much everything we need to know by now. And if we don't send people up there, we don't need to worry about it anyway. :) And no clear purpose? How about the survival of the species? Have you ever heard that old saying, don't put all your eggs in one basket? This is a very troubling argument. It boils down to, We can't stop ourselves from ruining the planet we have, so let's make sure we can move to Mars. We'd be much better off taking the untold trillions it would take to accomplish this and using it to protect what we already have. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] the moon
We know pretty much everything we need to know? Why didn't we stop with Aristotle? Hell, we knew everything we needed to know by then. What's a microchip? Who knows, who cares. Oh, please. That sentence was in response to your claim that we need to learn about the effects of space on humans. Quite obviously, it meant that we already know what we need to know about that. Not about everything. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] the moon
Well if that was your original question, no we don't. We haven't been there long enough. We know a few things, but we're not even finished learning about us on Earth. If you think we are you could open one hell of a medical center. You'd be rich. By the way, they are testing and making drugs in space. And no, they don't have Mary Jane growing in the hold. But seriously, we know very little of long term effects of space flight on humans. We haven't been doing it long enough and doing the necessary tests to know. We do know we can get up there and back without dying about 75% of the time. I just made that percentage up. But we've lost quite a few. Also, have you checked the cost/budget for NASA as compared to the war in Iraq and Afghanistan? How about the bank bail out? Did you get a bonus or your home loan forgiven? Talk about wasting money. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 10, 2009, at 5:09 PM, Chris Dunford wrote: We know pretty much everything we need to know? Why didn't we stop with Aristotle? Hell, we knew everything we needed to know by then. What's a microchip? Who knows, who cares. Oh, please. That sentence was in response to your claim that we need to learn about the effects of space on humans. Quite obviously, it meant that we already know what we need to know about that. Not about everything. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Insurance and National Security [was: Intensive care unit]
On Sep 9, 2009, at 11:24 PM, Steve at Verizon wrote: So you are in favor of nationalizing, not just the health insurance companies, but also life insurance and automobile insurance? Your logic would apply to them as well. Or if not nationalize, make them provide the same coverage to everybody for the same cost. For life insurance you should pay the same premium if you are 24 or 64, smoke or not smoke, have a preexisting condition (i.e. Stage 4 cancer). And your auto insurance should be the same, independent of your age (Boy would I have liked that when I was 21!) or driving record. The purpose of insurance is to pool risk. Simple math and probability tells us that only some of us will need help when something devastating happens, but that won't happen to most of us. Since we don't know which of us will need help we pool our risk. We all pay in a small amount so that those of us in need can be helped. This is simple and socially useful. Where insurance veered from socially useful to discriminatory and unfair was when they started treating people differently. If you were black, or Jewish, or Moslem, or Catholic you would get charged much higher rate than is you were a white Protestant. If you did not belong to the Church of England and had a claim the insurance company would say thanks for all your past payments, but we've decided not to help you. That is simply wrong. The only way to get insurance (all forms of insurance) back to being socially useful is to prohibit all forms of discrimination. Put everybody in the pool and charge everybody the same price. Imagine how much less administrative costs there would be if insurers did not have to calculate so many discriminatory rates or battle with their customers over every expense. I was once denied payment for a doctor visit because my PHP was on vacation and I saw the doctor who was covering for my PHP without a written referral from my PHP. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Do Typographers Despise M$?
On Sep 9, 2009, at 12:20 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: Did M$ PAY Carter for his design? They neglected to pay for some of the early fonts that they used. They hired him to design a set of fonts for screen display. After he completed two M$ got a case of the cheaps and sent him packing. M$ staff was told to complete the project on their own -- all downhill from there. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] drobo - back up and storage
On Sep 9, 2009, at 7:11 PM, Business Her Way wrote: Are any of you using any of these storage/back up units? And if yes, how is it working for you? You did not state the application, but for 99 out of 100 it is trouble. Almost nobody benefits from a RAID and a non-expert user can get into big trouble. An inexpensive NAS make more sense. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Back to dial up
On Sep 10, 2009, at 12:43 AM, Eric S. Sande wrote: If my 81 year old mother has a DSL issue, is she calling India? India does not have to be bad. One product I use, Quark XPress, used to have US support and it was famously terrible. New owners moved much of the company overseas and tech support is in India. Phones get answered promptly, the people answering do know the product and help is quick and effective. The support techs do come across as a bit snooty, but that may be more of a cultural difference. They really are helpful. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Keyboard problem
On Sep 9, 2009, at 9:31 AM, Jordan wrote: The nice Apple keyboard that I use on the iMac has a problem. The cde and 3 keys have stopped working. Is there anything I can tinker with that might fix this? It's a couple years old, but does anyone think Apple will do anything for me on this? CDE not working suggests that it is the matrix wire that serves that row of keys. You may be able to get inside to reseat a ribbon cable, but it probably won't be easy. Problem could be electronics and definitely not fixable. New one is $50 and a very nice keyboard it is. Third-party keyboards are $20. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Guys and GPS [and the moon]
On Sep 10, 2009, at 1:30 PM, Constance Warner wrote: One postscript on the GPS issue: don't get too used to relying on your GPS unit. The satellites on which GPS depends are aging and will need replacement very soon. No money has been appropriated for any replacement satellites, and you can't send the space shuttle up to fix them. So, basically, you're just one satellite failure away from having to get out your road maps and your compass. (The weather satellites [on which your nightly TV weather forecasts and Internet weather sites depend] are also wearing out and need to be replaced.) So maybe it's time to write your congressman and senators, if you like GPS [or weather forecasts of even marginal accuracy]. Yes, Bush thought the gubment should get out of the business of doing anything useful and focus on killing foreigners. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Twitter vulnerable - unless you're using IE8
On Sep 7, 2009, at 7:43 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: Security researcher Brian Mastenbrook uncovered a cross-site scripting vulnerability in Ruby on Rails and quickly had injected Javascript code running in Twitter. An advisory from the Ruby developers has already been issued, along with patches for Rails 2.0, 2.1, 2.2 and 2.3. According to Brian Mastenbrook, the flaw can only be exploited when Safari interacts with RSS feeds. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 9, 2009, at 12:41 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: The only thing I'm not seeing here is a point. Precisely the point. You don't see much through your ideological haze and trying to provoke thought is quite impossible. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Guys and GPS [and the moon]
On Sep 10, 2009, at 1:30 PM, Constance Warner wrote: I wonder what will be the predominant language of space exploration: English, or Chinese? Chinese, definitely. The American Century ended prematurely. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] the moon
Wow, when did Spirit and Opportunity learn to work on their own? I wonder if the people who get paid to drive them know this. If they are working on there own, what do you think they're thinking? There's a rock, let's flip it over. Or maybe, damn it's dusty today. Or maybe, Hey Opportunity, find anything interesting yet? Nope, I got stuck in a crater for a bit though. Speaking of that, hows the foot? Oh, what a drag. Yes, Jeff, the Mars rovers have been programmed to do simple analyses of their situation and environment. Since it takes something like 20 minutes for a command to be sent from the Earth to Mars, the rovers could fall off a cliff if they weren't programmed to recognize local conditions and proceed with caution. One or both of them got stuck in sand and had to maneuver in order to get out. Opportunity is now at the edge of a huge crater, descending to take samples. Could be more treacherous if it couldn't maneuver without direct orders from JPL. NASA channel has videos from Mars fairly often. So cool. Almost like being there. http://marsrover.nasa.gov/gallery/video/spirit01.html http://marsrover.nasa.gov/gallery/video/opportunity01.html Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 9, 2009, at 1:06 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: You can't compete with the govt. Choice with the state is a bug, not a feature. This has no basis in fact. You just keep chanting that wingnut mantra. Keep your eyes shut real tight while you do. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 9, 2009, at 1:15 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: Nah, it's pretty much socialism when the Stupid Party does it too. Socialism is simply opposition to the untrammeled workings of the economic market. Most of the world embraces socialism. Socialism is a good and virtuous thing. Anyone who does not support socialism is either evil or a nut job. Which one are you? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 9, 2009, at 2:19 AM, Jeff Miles wrote: What the hell came of creating the database/intranet of health care? Who was against it? What happened to the waste cutting? Where did it go? The company still exists, so.? People were rightly nervous over such an operation being run by M$. Same thing happened when M$ tried to muscle into the financial services business. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 6, 2009, at 2:04 PM, mike wrote: Brilliant! Socialism is great till you run out of everyone elses money. But one doesn't. That is just a bogeyman invented by wing nuts who are bad at math. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Eudora
On Sep 7, 2009, at 4:58 PM, Marcio wrote: Hmmm I am considering this...going Gmail. But will I find all that Eudore offers? As time goes on I find that software does get smarter and better as developers understand tasks better (except for M$ Office). New software may do things differently, but the change is typically worthwhile. For example I find Apple's mail or GMail to be entirely adequate. Exactly what is so complicated about email that nothing but Eudora will suffice for your needs? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 9, 2009, at 2:28 AM, Jeff Miles wrote: You obviously don't pay any attention. Flying 20 years ago was as affordable as it is today. Very true,except that today we have more information about fares. You only get less for your $ today. Today they can abuse their customers with impunity. They can leave you sitting in a plane with overflowing toilets for 12 hours and laugh about it. Back when I was a kid I recall calling the NY office of the CAB several times about abusive airline practices. I still smile as I recall they guys there with their thick Brooklyn accents giving me tactical advice and regulations to cite. It was magical. When I would get to the airline counter and they would try to screw me once again I would mutter a few rule numbers and screw you became yes sir, we can book you with another airline and we'll pay the difference. Those were the days. Then the wingnuts wrecked the government and now tell us how ineffective it is. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 9, 2009, at 9:10 AM, Jordan wrote: _Oh, and by the way, these wingers who are against government involvement in health care because it's not in the constitution? I guess they are against Medicare too. Good luck with that. I recall Trent Lott lecturing us while people were dying from tainted beef. His anti-regulation, free-market notion seemed to require that each of us acquire a food testing lab and take it to the grocery store every time we shopped. Such jaw-dropping stupidity. As Barney Frank asks What planet do you live on? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 9, 2009, at 7:41 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: How about if they break even? That would be a hoot. What does that mean? You could try to make sense from time to time. That would really be a hoot. Profit and break even are not useful concepts for thinking about how governments work. Any discussion built around those concepts will be illogical. you wast our time. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 9, 2009, at 12:33 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: By expanding Medicare and returning to private nonprofits instead of taking customers' premiums for shareholders, the costs of both Medicare and private health care will go down, as it has in many other countries with similar plans. Medicare costs and premiums will go down--lurching downward--when the pool is increased to include younger healthier people instead of only people over the age of 65. Amen. There are so many good examples to emulate. They all have much lower costs and offer much better outcomes. Those people love their health plans. But the wingnuts comb through the millions of people served by those health systems to find the 1 in a 100 examples where something went wrong and then try to convince us that this is how those systems work all the time. And when that fails they just out and out lie to us. Don't forget Stephen Hawking likes his Death Panel Health Care just fine ... http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/erica/2009/08/stephen-hawking-likes-his-deat.php * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
If you are referring to the deregulation of the airline industry, the wingnuts who did it were Jimmy Carter and the Democratic Congress. See the 1978 Airline Deregulation Act. t.piwowar wrote: On Sep 9, 2009, at 2:28 AM, Jeff Miles wrote: You obviously don't pay any attention. Flying 20 years ago was as affordable as it is today. Very true,except that today we have more information about fares. You only get less for your $ today. Today they can abuse their customers with impunity. They can leave you sitting in a plane with overflowing toilets for 12 hours and laugh about it. Back when I was a kid I recall calling the NY office of the CAB several times about abusive airline practices. I still smile as I recall they guys there with their thick Brooklyn accents giving me tactical advice and regulations to cite. It was magical. When I would get to the airline counter and they would try to screw me once again I would mutter a few rule numbers and screw you became yes sir, we can book you with another airline and we'll pay the difference. Those were the days. Then the wingnuts wrecked the government and now tell us how ineffective it is. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
No one could compete with Freddy and Fanny because they had the implied (turns out real) backing of the US Treasury and they could borrow at rates lower than other financial institutions. That's how they made those gobs of money (before the fun ran out). And Franklin Raines made his 90 mil during the same years that Fanny Mae couldn't produce a yearly financial report. In order to say you have a competition, then you have to have winners and losers. Do you really think that if a public option were set up to compete, that it would have a chance in hell of losing. t.piwowar wrote: On Sep 9, 2009, at 1:06 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: You can't compete with the govt. Choice with the state is a bug, not a feature. This has no basis in fact. You just keep chanting that wingnut mantra. Keep your eyes shut real tight while you do. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Profit, no, but break even has a certain appeal. An 11.4 Trillion National Debt represents government living wayy beyond its means. t.piwowar wrote: On Sep 9, 2009, at 7:41 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: How about if they break even? That would be a hoot. What does that mean? You could try to make sense from time to time. That would really be a hoot. Profit and break even are not useful concepts for thinking about how governments work. Any discussion built around those concepts will be illogical. you wast our time. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 9, 2009, at 5:16 PM, Jeff Miles wrote: I'm an ignorant ass because I don't agree with you and don't see why you keep refusing to understand the word option? Same thing happens with these folks when the topic is computers. They simply refuse to acknowledge key facts and will argue round and round the facts then try to change the subject. A dearth or logic and an abundance of debating tactics. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 9, 2009, at 7:45 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: Every year we work longer and longer to pay the guvmint our tax burden and every year we become less free as more laws are passed that restrict our freedom just a little bit more than last year. False. What planet do you live on? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 9, 2009, at 5:59 PM, mike wrote: I heard someone saying on the radio or television, I don't recall where, that we should require when any new law goes on the books they should have to remove one also. Probably Fox. Most of the utterly stupid commentary comes from there. Only an idiot would think this way. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive care unit
On Sep 8, 2009, at 6:23 AM, Jeff Miles wrote: As for letting the free market work for insurance companies, I'm all for that. Let's stop requiring insurance for damn near everything. Let's make it an option. Do you want to buy a house? You don't have to buy fire insurance. You want to drive a car? You don't have to have whatever insurance. You want to live a few years more? You don't have to buy health insurance. But the option could be there if you do. Fine, but if you do opt out of medical insurance and you don't have proof of cash up front and you do have an accident the ambulance will refuse to transport you. We just let you bleed to death on the side of the road. You fine with that? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 9, 2009, at 9:28 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: It is called universal or one payer healthcare. Nothing socialistic about it. Nope. It is socialism through and through. It is the right thing to do. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive care unit
On Sep 7, 2009, at 8:26 PM, Jeff Morris wrote: For you to say that the health care in Cuba is better than the United States may be the dumbest statement I have ever heard. Given the choice...you mean to tell me that you would fly to Cuba to have open heart surgery instead of having it done by a specialist here? You answered no...I'm certain...which means then, that health care is NOT better in Cuba. Inability to think straight seems to be a recurring theme here. Open heart surgery is a specific procedure and is in no way indicative of quality of health care. On Sep 7, 2009, at 8:26 PM, Jeff Morris wrote: Socializing our health care system will not only hurt our economy...but it will ruin medicine in the United States. How do you get to such a sweeping and bizarre conclusion? There is no logical way to get to such a conclusion from the data. If you build your case on the foundation of such nonsense you have no case. On Sep 7, 2009, at 8:26 PM, Jeff Morris wrote: 85% of the population is perfectly happy with their health care Not true. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, nearly 46 million Americans, or 18 percent of the population under the age of 65, were without health insurance in 2007 www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml That would mean that only 82% have health insurance, so how can it be that 85% of the population is perfectly happy with their health care? Is Hamid Karzai your pollster? And on an on. You are just spouting nonsense. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 11, 2009, at 12:44 AM, Steve at Verizon wrote: No one could compete with Freddy and Fanny because they had the implied (turns out real) backing of the US Treasury and they could borrow at rates lower than other financial institutions. That's how they made those gobs of money (before the fun ran out). And Franklin Raines made his 90 mil during the same years that Fanny Mae couldn't produce a yearly financial report. Well here you go changing the subject again in the hope that you can maybe prevail in another arena. Clearly you do not know that Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac do. They are clearing houses or facilitators that work with *privately-held* banks and other *private* financial firms to securitize mortgages. Between the two of them they handle only about half of this kind of business so there is plenty of competition. The reason there are two of them is to further enhance competition. If you want to call them socialist than by the same logic the New York Stock Exchange is socialist. You gat an F on the facts and an F on your logic. You make no sense at all. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive care unit
Hello kettle? I love that line! g cb _ On Sep 11, 2009, at 1:26, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Sep 7, 2009, at 8:26 PM, Jeff Morris wrote: For you to say that the health care in Cuba is better than the United States may be the dumbest statement I have ever heard. Given the choice...you mean to tell me that you would fly to Cuba to have open heart surgery instead of having it done by a specialist here? You answered no...I'm certain...which means then, that health care is NOT better in Cuba. Inability to think straight seems to be a recurring theme here. Open heart surgery is a specific procedure and is in no way indicative of quality of health care. On Sep 7, 2009, at 8:26 PM, Jeff Morris wrote: Socializing our health care system will not only hurt our economy...but it will ruin medicine in the United States. How do you get to such a sweeping and bizarre conclusion? There is no logical way to get to such a conclusion from the data. If you build your case on the foundation of such nonsense you have no case. On Sep 7, 2009, at 8:26 PM, Jeff Morris wrote: 85% of the population is perfectly happy with their health care Not true. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, nearly 46 million Americans, or 18 percent of the population under the age of 65, were without health insurance in 2007 www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml That would mean that only 82% have health insurance, so how can it be that 85% of the population is perfectly happy with their health care? Is Hamid Karzai your pollster? And on an on. You are just spouting nonsense. *** ** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** *** ** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 11, 2009, at 12:50 AM, Steve at Verizon wrote: If you are referring to the deregulation of the airline industry, the wingnuts who did it were Jimmy Carter and the Democratic Congress. See the 1978 Airline Deregulation Act. Are we talking policy or are you starting a Jimmy Carter fan club here? It is impossible to keep you on topic and making a logical progression from one fact to the next. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Eudora
What's wrong with familiarity? why should users be required to learn yet more s/w when they're already comfortable with what they're familiar? Yes, call me a curmudgeon. --- On Thu, 9/10/09, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: From: t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Eudora To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 11:11 PM On Sep 7, 2009, at 4:58 PM, Marcio wrote: Hmmm I am considering this...going Gmail. But will I find all that Eudore offers? As time goes on I find that software does get smarter and better as developers understand tasks better (except for M$ Office). New software may do things differently, but the change is typically worthwhile. For example I find Apple's mail or GMail to be entirely adequate. Exactly what is so complicated about email that nothing but Eudora will suffice for your needs? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
