Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
Yes, it is a bit of jargon. Strangely, none of them can produce a title or deed of ownership. If I best you in some challenge I might say I own you. Does not make you my property. Matthew On Jul 16, 2009, at 5:59 PM, t.piwowar wrote: On Jul 16, 2009, at 5:12 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: No one denied there isn't a market. It's just not something you can own, at least not in any literal sense. Marketing types even use the term owning the market. It is exactly what they strive to do. Literally. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
On Jul 17, 2009, at 10:09 AM, Matthew Taylor wrote: Yes, it is a bit of jargon. Strangely, none of them can produce a title or deed of ownership. A circular argument. By definition The Commons have no deed of ownership. Circling back to my original comment: some of you have an obvious problem understanding the concept of The Commons. Your responses have proved this to be true. QED. You are lucky I'm not grading your papers. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
On Jul 16, 2009, at 9:02 PM, db wrote: Is this the one you are talking about ... or did you find something better? http://www.apple.com/support/ilife/tutorials/itunes/it7-2.html Just doesn't look all that hard to me... Move your playlists: If you want to copy your playlists to another computer, along with your music, just go to the File menu and select Export Library. Type a name for your exported library, save it to your removable hard disk, and then click Save. Now connect your removable hard disk to your new computer and open iTunes. From the File menu, select Import. On a Windows computer, select XML files from the Files of type menu, and then locate the exported library file on your removable hard disk. Click Open, and all the playlists on your old computer will be copied over. If some playlists were duplicated, just select the duplicates, go to the Edit menu, and select Clear. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
Interestingly enough when I got my economics degree I did not have a grade problem. In the historical example there often was a deed of sorts to a commons - a provision in the royal charter of a town would designate certain lands as commons as the town was recognized as having a corporate existence separate from any individual townspeople. This is distinct from a market, wherein the crown might grant a monopoly on trade out of a port or such to a foreign land, but could not control what happened on the other end. Matthew On Jul 17, 2009, at 10:47 AM, t.piwowar wrote: On Jul 17, 2009, at 10:09 AM, Matthew Taylor wrote: Yes, it is a bit of jargon. Strangely, none of them can produce a title or deed of ownership. A circular argument. By definition The Commons have no deed of ownership. Circling back to my original comment: some of you have an obvious problem understanding the concept of The Commons. Your responses have proved this to be true. QED. You are lucky I'm not grading your papers. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
A circular argument. By definition The Commons have no deed of ownership. Circling back to my original comment: some of you have an obvious problem understanding the concept of The Commons. Your responses have proved this to be true. QED. Please explain to the class what a commons is, Thomas. So far, all you've done is twist reality, cite Wikipedia and demonstrate no real understanding of either markets nor commons. It's just been the usual bag of cheap debate tricks. You are lucky I'm not grading your papers. You might pass, barely, with some extra credit. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
On Jul 17, 2009, at 5:33 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: Please explain to the class what a commons is, Thomas. So far, all you've done is twist reality, cite Wikipedia and demonstrate no real understanding of either markets nor commons. It's just been the usual bag of cheap debate tricks. Here we go again. You won't follow the link to Wikipedia and instead play the I don't understand broken record game. It is not my job to teach you. I merely point out a serious defect in your understanding of how the world works. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
Here we go again. You won't follow the link to Wikipedia and instead play the I don't understand broken record game. It is not my job to teach you. I merely point out a serious defect in your understanding of how the world works. I did follow the link. Here is the sum total: The commons refers to resources that are collectively owned[1]. This can include everything from land to software.[2]. The process by which the commons are transformed into private property is often termed enclosure. You have repeatedly failed to demonstrate, in even the smallest way, how a market is collectively owned. You seem to think that simply saying it makes it true. Your sole means of articulation of this claim is to pull out yet another horn from your bag of debate tricks and honk it even harder this time. The mark of a true scholar, to be sure. If you want to have an adult conversation about this, then by all means do so. Otherwise, buh-bye. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
Never, never, nevernever, let iTunes manage your music if you already know what you are doing. On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 7:19 PM, Jeff Wright jswri...@gmail.com wrote: On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:06 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: They really are temping the anti-trust hammer of justice, aren't they? I hope the DOJ smites them good. I don't. It's their software, they can cripple it any damn way they want. Take your business elsewhere if you don't like it. Considering the overwhelming success of the iPod and its successors, the consuming public doesn't feel harmed by this arrangement. Those who do or simply desire another player, have many other options. That said, Apple's whining excuse about not wanting to have to support other hardware is lame. If it's about propping up the bottom line, just say so. Frankly, I can't stand the way iTunes mangles your music collection. I lost my iPod Classic walking out to the garage at work recently, somebody found a nice surprise on the sidewalk that day, and I don't miss iTunes. It took me days to get my collection back to normal, deleting all the ghost folders and all the pointers to compilations iTunes left littered throughout, along with just plain odd stuff that it did. I bought a used Zune 80 off of eBay for $100 to replace it (in excellent condition--no scratches or damage at all) and I'm very satisfied. I almost didn't bid, since it was the first auction I came across and had only 12 minutes left, but I took a chance and got a bargain! Since then almost every auction has been $125 and up. Amazon has a good selection of really inexpensive accessories for it. Nothing even remotely approaching the selections available for iPods, but good enough. Now, I have all these iPod accessories to get rid of. The Zune 80 is a very nice, solid player with a screen about twice the size of the iPod Classic. The cover art is big and beautiful when playing music and watching video podcasts isn't a squinting chore any longer for my aging eyes. I find the squircle controller (yes, stupid name) on the Zune device to be easier and more accurate to use than the iPod's rotary dial. No turning down the volume when attempting to do something else entirely. Happiness. The Zune software, while not perfect, leaves my music alone and doesn't try to manage it for me. It's *much* better at finding missing album art, even the rare stuff; no store account required as with iTunes. Oddly, it doesn't broadly display the cover art during playback as does the Zune itself. There is a lot of white space in the software's interface and it lacks some of the fine controls of iTunes. But, considering that it doesn't think that it knows better than I do about data management, it's a worthwhile trade-off. I installed Songbird on the upstairs computer and it's pretty good. Fairly iTunes-like in appearance, almost a cross between iTunes and Winamp, but I'm still getting used to it. It seems to leave the music collection alone as well, but it doesn't support Zune yet, so it's just for playback in the living area. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
On Jul 16, 2009, at 2:42 AM, mike wrote: Never, never, nevernever, let iTunes manage your music if you already know what you are doing. That is an option that can be set in iTunes preferences. So if you don't like it you have only yourself to blame. On the other hand, I do let iTunes manage my music files and I see no problem with how it organizes them. The organizational scheme is intuitive and you get lost there is a Reveal in Finder command in iTunes. I have never had a problem getting to and moving iTunes music files via the Finder. I see no problem here. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
I didn't; I explicitly chose the let me manage my music option. But it did its folder juggling act anyway. -Original Message- Never, never, nevernever, let iTunes manage your music if you already know what you are doing. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
That is an option that can be set in iTunes preferences. So if you don't like it you have only yourself to blame. Nope. I did set it not manage the data. It's not even in the default folder. This all the stuff it adds as part of its normal operation. It didn't like question marks, for example, and would empty the offending folder and move the files to a new one with an '_' instead. The Zune software just deals with it and leaves it alone. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
But it is not their market. When any large corporation makes anti- competitive actions it damages the market. If the damage is slight we let it pass. If the damage is major we go after the bastards. Define anti-competitive please. Objectively, if you would, not EU-style where the technocrats and the competitors define it by what they say it is. The market belongs to us collectively and it is a collective responsibility to protect it. This is just flat out wrong. No one owns a market. You are expressing propriety where none exists. How do you own an abstract concept? If anything, you own only your little slice, where you decide what to do with your money. When we fail to do that we risk market meltdowns like we now have, which is due to the failure of financial market regulators and likely corrupt administration intervention in support of the bad guys. Imagine how unlivable it would be if the current market meltdown were repeated every year or two. Then don't bail out the bad actors. They won't be around to screw up again the next time. You also might stop printing trillions of dollars of money that we don't have. Use your wheelbarrow in the garden, not the bank. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
-Original Message- Apple apologist? Are you talking to me? The truth comes out. You closet Apple lover you! No! Stop! It burr-r-r-rns! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
That's like having baseball eliminate umpires. Not a good move in any game. Swing, and a miss. This like having the Nats (or insert your favorite cellar-dwelling team here) have a say in who should be allowed to play in the World Series and with what equipment. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
Because of iTunes two music management styles, it a royal pain in the butt to move iTunes music to another machine WHILE maintaining your play lists. Too many variables and iTunes is all too happy to stick its big butt into the process promptly ditching the playlists. I just don't understand why these big Apple and MS corps ... who want us to love their products ... don't put ANY energy or thought into making it EASY and CONSISTENT for use to take our music and mail with us to our new machines they so much want to sell us every several years. It appears they only think about it occasionally... as an afterthought! What? They want to keep their mail... their music playlists? God forbid should we want to change from a PC to a Mac or the other way around while moving our music or mail... Why is it good business to let us twist in wind? db t.piwowar wrote: On Jul 16, 2009, at 2:42 AM, mike wrote: Never, never, nevernever, let iTunes manage your music if you already know what you are doing. That is an option that can be set in iTunes preferences. So if you don't like it you have only yourself to blame. On the other hand, I do let iTunes manage my music files and I see no problem with how it organizes them. The organizational scheme is intuitive and you get lost there is a Reveal in Finder command in iTunes. I have never had a problem getting to and moving iTunes music files via the Finder. I see no problem here. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
On Jul 16, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: This is just flat out wrong. No one owns a market. You are expressing propriety where none exists. How do you own an abstract concept? I think you have a problem understanding what economists call the Commons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_commons Markets are a common good from which we all benefit and which we must all protect (or suffer the consequences). When one company essentially owns a market it is called a monopoly and is an abuse of the Commons. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
On Jul 16, 2009, at 12:09 PM, db wrote: I just don't understand why these big Apple and MS corps ... who want us to love their products ... don't put ANY energy or thought into making it EASY and CONSISTENT for use to take our music and mail with us to our new machines they so much want to sell us every several years. Apple's Migration Assistant does a fine job with this. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
Now you are sounding like a WFB er ... MFB Apple's migration assistant helps you migrate a overflowing iTunes library to an external drive? To a Vista computer? To a widely different version of OS X? Does it distinguish between managed and unmanaged iTunes libraries? I believe the answer is no to most of those questions if not all. Who fits in the our libraries don't get too big ... we only constantly buy the latest Mac goody mold? db t.piwowar wrote: On Jul 16, 2009, at 12:09 PM, db wrote: I just don't understand why these big Apple and MS corps ... who want us to love their products ... don't put ANY energy or thought into making it EASY and CONSISTENT for use to take our music and mail with us to our new machines they so much want to sell us every several years. Apple's Migration Assistant does a fine job with this. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
On the contrary Tom - you clearly do not understand the concept. The Market is nothing more than a convenient term for the aggregation of all the individual transactions and interactions under examination. A company does not own the market in a monopoly, they control or dominate the resource at the core of the transactions. By your logic if I invent a widget or widgets and process by which they are used that grants a new or vastly improved capability and there by gain a monopoly I am abusing a commons - a commons that did not exist until I invented it. Matthew On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:23 PM, t.piwowar wrote: On Jul 16, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: This is just flat out wrong. No one owns a market. You are expressing propriety where none exists. How do you own an abstract concept? I think you have a problem understanding what economists call the Commons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_commons Markets are a common good from which we all benefit and which we must all protect (or suffer the consequences). When one company essentially owns a market it is called a monopoly and is an abuse of the Commons. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:40 PM, db wrote: Apple's migration assistant helps you migrate a overflowing iTunes library to an external drive? To a Vista computer? To a widely different version of OS X? Does it distinguish between managed and unmanaged iTunes libraries? I was responding to a more complicated situation. To move your iTunes library to an external drive you change its location in iTunes preferences. To import your iTunes library from an external drive you just import the library into iTunes. As to doing it on a Vista computer, you are rightly on your own -- that's a wholly different can of worms (yuck!). * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:37 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: Seriously? The World Series is preordained before the season even starts? Oh the things WFBs don't know -- I could fill a book. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:36 PM, Matthew Taylor wrote: By your logic if I invent a widget or widgets and process by which they are used that grants a new or vastly improved capability and there by gain a monopoly I am abusing a commons - a commons that did not exist until I invented it. Not by my logic. What I stated is the way it is viewed by economists. A patent is exactly a limited grant of monopoly rights. It is a deal made between society and inventors so that the society may benefit from the work of inventors. Each contributes something of value so that a deal may be struck. In the end the patent expires and the inventor must return their exclusive part of the market to the Commons. For those that claim that the market is not a thing, your example is a great counter-example. If the market were not a thing then how could it be given away in a patent-grant transaction? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
I think you have a problem understanding what economists call the Commons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_commons Markets are a common good from which we all benefit and which we must all protect (or suffer the consequences). Each according to their needs, eh Thomas? You seriously misunderstand the concept of the commons. A commons is something that everyone can use and enjoy equally, such as the Internet or a grassy area. That's all fine and dandy unless someone abuses their share of the commons. For example, spam overwhelming an ISP or a sheep herder takes his sheep to eat and defecate in the grass in the field that everyone else enjoys as a recreation area; that's the situation known as The tragedy of the commons. A market is a collection of inputs, outputs and information. No one can own it as there is nothing to own. A single company can dominate a given market, but in no way does that make it illegal or abusive by default. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
Not by my logic. What I stated is the way it is viewed by *some* economists. FTFY A patent is exactly a limited grant of monopoly rights. It is a deal made between society and inventors so that the society may benefit from the work of inventors. Each contributes something of value so that a deal may be struck. In the end the patent expires and the inventor must return their exclusive part of the market to the Commons. I defy you to find the term commons in any patent materials. It's a temporary gummint charter designed to protect proprietary ideas, while encouraging innovation and balancing against the need for economic vibrancy. It's a compromise, like most political creatures. For those that claim that the market is not a thing, your example is a great counter-example. If the market were not a thing then how could it be given away in a patent-grant transaction? They aren't. Patents are a charter *for a specific design* of a product. It's not a license for a monopoly. Anyone can compete against you with similar or alternative products. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
On Jul 16, 2009, at 2:09 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: A market is a collection of inputs, outputs and information. No one can own it as there is nothing to own. You keep digging yourself in deeper. So now you deny the existence of intellectual property? There is plenty of case law to sustain the concept of ownership for information. To deny there is such a thing as a Market puts you out in lala land. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
On Jul 16, 2009, at 2:01 PM, t.piwowar wrote: On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:36 PM, Matthew Taylor wrote: By your logic if I invent a widget or widgets and process by which they are used that grants a new or vastly improved capability and there by gain a monopoly I am abusing a commons - a commons that did not exist until I invented it. Not by my logic. What I stated is the way it is viewed by economists. Demonstrate please. Certainly your wikipedia link does not define commons as such. A patent is exactly a limited grant of monopoly rights. No - it is a limited protection for specific intellectual property. I can have a patent for a specific type of flying toy, but not protection for all toys that fly - and the latter is the market - those buyers and sellers concerned with flying toys. It is a deal made between society and inventors so that the society may benefit from the work of inventors. Each contributes something of value so that a deal may be struck. In the end the patent expires and the inventor must return their exclusive part of the market to the Commons. No - in the end others can make use of the inventor's invention after the agreed upon exclusive period is over. Other folks still don't get to sell Widget brand thingamabobs - they can just sell thingamabobs under their own brand that are copies. For those that claim that the market is not a thing, your example is a great counter-example. If the market were not a thing then how could it be given away in a patent-grant transaction? The market is not given away - the patent holder has exclusive rights to offer a specific thing into the market. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
And we all know economists agree on everything... On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 11:01 AM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: Not by my logic. What I stated is the way it is viewed by economists. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
It makes a 100 % difference in moving your iTunes library to an external drive whether you have a managed or unmanaged library. If you don't get the difference in procedures just right... poof goes your playlist that you may have been compiling for several years. IT professional that I am, following all the many newsgroup tips that I looked up, the playlists still went poof. Then I clicked around a bunch and all of a sudden most of the playlist mysteriously came back (except the recent additions). Don't know why... iTunes was doing something on its own ... smart/ stupid beast that it is. I spent a LOT of time and heartache on a procedure that should have been 1,2,3 done. I resent a lack of info / guidance for a procedure that most anyone who really uses iTunes to any degree is absolutely going to need. Like a bank taking your money deposits but not giving you any way to transfer them reliably. Gee ... they disappeared? You're upset? This migration issue ... like the recent iTunes Pre issue ... or Mac not overtly labeling its successive equipment models ... is the same kind of inconsiderate bad business in the long run BS that MS is famous for. Making your customers hate you via incredible arrogance and and I'm too famous and rich to be anytthing but golden disregard for their customers. Can you tell I am upset? :) db t.piwowar wrote: On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:40 PM, db wrote: Apple's migration assistant helps you migrate a overflowing iTunes library to an external drive? To a Vista computer? To a widely different version of OS X? Does it distinguish between managed and unmanaged iTunes libraries? I was responding to a more complicated situation. To move your iTunes library to an external drive you change its location in iTunes preferences. To import your iTunes library from an external drive you just import the library into iTunes. As to doing it on a Vista computer, you are rightly on your own -- that's a wholly different can of worms (yuck!). * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
I'm sure you know that you can tell iTunes to leave your audio files alone and where they are. That said, I don't like iTunes either, for lots of reasons. I don't like any of these modern apps that put all the files in one huge pile somewhere. We're supposed to use tags or something to categorize them. I still much prefer putting stuff in the folders I want them in. I know. I'm hopelessly old fashioned. Jeff Wright wrote: Frankly, I can't stand the way iTunes mangles your music collection. I lost my iPod Classic walking out to the garage at work recently, somebody found a nice surprise on the sidewalk that day, and I don't miss iTunes. It took me days to get my collection back to normal, deleting all the ghost folders and all the pointers to compilations iTunes left littered throughout, along with just plain odd stuff that it did. I installed Songbird on the upstairs computer and it's pretty good. Fairly iTunes-like in appearance, almost a cross between iTunes and Winamp, but I'm still getting used to it. It seems to leave the music collection alone as well, but it doesn't support Zune yet, so it's just for playback in the living area. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
t.piwowar wrote: Imagine how unlivable it would be if the current market meltdown were repeated every year or two. What do you mean? This was their idea of a free market. The rich don't care and the poor become homeless. So what? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
On Jul 16, 2009, at 2:46 PM, Matthew Taylor wrote: No - it is a limited protection for specific intellectual property. I can have a patent for a specific type of flying toy, but not protection for all toys that fly - and the latter is the market - those buyers and sellers concerned with flying toys. As M$ showed us with its sales statistics for MP3 players that are brown, the market is whatever you want to say it is. Twist and turn all you like, markets exist. No - in the end others can make use of the inventor's invention after the agreed upon exclusive period is over. Other folks still don't get to sell Widget brand thingamabobs - they can just sell thingamabobs under their own brand that are copies. Now you are mixing up patents and trademarks. Not the same thing. The market is not given away - the patent holder has exclusive rights to offer a specific thing into the market. Playing word games does not change a thing. A pie vs. a slice of a pie. A market vs. a market segment. Same difference. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
On Jul 16, 2009, at 3:18 PM, Jordan wrote: I'm sure you know that you can tell iTunes to leave your audio files alone and where they are. That said, I don't like iTunes either, for lots of reasons. I don't like any of these modern apps that put all the files in one huge pile somewhere. We're supposed to use tags or something to categorize them. I still much prefer putting stuff in the folders I want them in. I know. I'm hopelessly old fashioned. You probably use paper checks and DOS too. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
You keep digging yourself in deeper. So now you deny the existence of intellectual property? Of course not. But I'm not the one conflating IP with the concept of markets. Honestly, it's going to take a bit more than putting all the things you can't see or touch into a Venn diagram. There is plenty of case law to sustain the concept of ownership for information. To deny there is such a thing as a Market puts you out in lala land. No one denied there isn't a market. It's just not something you can own, at least not in any literal sense. C'mon Tom, I know you can grok that if you try really, really hard. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
Twist and turn all you like, markets exist. Are you being deliberately obtuse? The market is not given away - the patent holder has exclusive rights to offer a specific thing into the market. Playing word games does not change a thing. A pie vs. a slice of a pie. A market vs. a market segment. Same difference. Why yes, yes you are. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
On Jul 16, 2009, at 5:12 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: No one denied there isn't a market. It's just not something you can own, at least not in any literal sense. Marketing types even use the term owning the market. It is exactly what they strive to do. Literally. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
Marketing types even use the term owning the market. It is exactly what they strive to do. Literally. It's called a metaphor, Tom. It's the same as a simile without using like or as to describe something. You're taking advice from marketing trolls now? Wouldn't an ice pick to the forehead be quicker? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
On Jul 16, 2009, at 2:54 PM, db wrote: I resent a lack of info / guidance for a procedure that most anyone who really uses iTunes to any degree is absolutely going to need. Like a bank taking your money deposits but not giving you any way to transfer them reliably. Gee ... they disappeared? You're upset? When I needed to move my iTunes library I found detailed step-by-step instructions at the Apple website. Nothing to feel resentful over. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
Well I lost the playlists and wasted a lot of time... why not feel resentful? Is this the one you are talking about ... or did you find something better? http://www.apple.com/support/ilife/tutorials/itunes/it7-2.html This one is a rather scattered/ conflicting collection of directions (If you logically just follow the 1.2.3.4 steps laid out you will end up with no playlists). It makes no mention of the different procedures required by managed or unmanaged libraries except how to set your ipod ... and doesn't address the other obvious need... moving the library out and keeping iTunes where it is. It isn't rocket science ... the techniques needed are only 4 or so. How hard would it be for them to just document those... and not leave us scratching around ... wiping out play lists etc? The device is all over the place and people discuss the problem a lot on lists. Trying to assemble a set of comprehensive tips that cover the various iTunes move possibilities is harder than most IT work I do. Anybody know of a good resource on this subject? db t.piwowar wrote: On Jul 16, 2009, at 2:54 PM, db wrote: I resent a lack of info / guidance for a procedure that most anyone who really uses iTunes to any degree is absolutely going to need. Like a bank taking your money deposits but not giving you any way to transfer them reliably. Gee ... they disappeared? You're upset? When I needed to move my iTunes library I found detailed step-by-step instructions at the Apple website. Nothing to feel resentful over. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
http://www.pcworld.com/article/168489/apple_bans_palm_pre_from_itunes_get_th e_workaround.html They really are temping the anti-trust hammer of justice, aren't they? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:06 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: They really are temping the anti-trust hammer of justice, aren't they? I hope the DOJ smites them good. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:06 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: They really are temping the anti-trust hammer of justice, aren't they? I hope the DOJ smites them good. I don't. It's their software, they can cripple it any damn way they want. Take your business elsewhere if you don't like it. Considering the overwhelming success of the iPod and its successors, the consuming public doesn't feel harmed by this arrangement. Those who do or simply desire another player, have many other options. That said, Apple's whining excuse about not wanting to have to support other hardware is lame. If it's about propping up the bottom line, just say so. Frankly, I can't stand the way iTunes mangles your music collection. I lost my iPod Classic walking out to the garage at work recently, somebody found a nice surprise on the sidewalk that day, and I don't miss iTunes. It took me days to get my collection back to normal, deleting all the ghost folders and all the pointers to compilations iTunes left littered throughout, along with just plain odd stuff that it did. I bought a used Zune 80 off of eBay for $100 to replace it (in excellent condition--no scratches or damage at all) and I'm very satisfied. I almost didn't bid, since it was the first auction I came across and had only 12 minutes left, but I took a chance and got a bargain! Since then almost every auction has been $125 and up. Amazon has a good selection of really inexpensive accessories for it. Nothing even remotely approaching the selections available for iPods, but good enough. Now, I have all these iPod accessories to get rid of. The Zune 80 is a very nice, solid player with a screen about twice the size of the iPod Classic. The cover art is big and beautiful when playing music and watching video podcasts isn't a squinting chore any longer for my aging eyes. I find the squircle controller (yes, stupid name) on the Zune device to be easier and more accurate to use than the iPod's rotary dial. No turning down the volume when attempting to do something else entirely. Happiness. The Zune software, while not perfect, leaves my music alone and doesn't try to manage it for me. It's *much* better at finding missing album art, even the rare stuff; no store account required as with iTunes. Oddly, it doesn't broadly display the cover art during playback as does the Zune itself. There is a lot of white space in the software's interface and it lacks some of the fine controls of iTunes. But, considering that it doesn't think that it knows better than I do about data management, it's a worthwhile trade-off. I installed Songbird on the upstairs computer and it's pretty good. Fairly iTunes-like in appearance, almost a cross between iTunes and Winamp, but I'm still getting used to it. It seems to leave the music collection alone as well, but it doesn't support Zune yet, so it's just for playback in the living area. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
So, if Microsoft elected to STOP you from using another browser- it's their software, admit, leave me alone- it would be ok. I love the consistency of Apple apologists. May you all get your just desserts (or is that deserts) Eschew Obfuscation This is a reply from: Roy A. Ackerman, Ph.D., E.A. Financial, Managerial, and Technical Services for the Professional, Non-Profit, and the Entrepreneurial Organization 703.548.1343 voice 703.783.1340 fax From thinking to doing, from sales to profits, from tax to investments- we are YOUR adjuvancy -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:computerguy...@listserv.aol.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Wright Sent: 07/15/2009 10:20 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:06 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: They really are temping the anti-trust hammer of justice, aren't they? I hope the DOJ smites them good. I don't. It's their software, they can cripple it any damn way they want. Take your business elsewhere if you don't like it. Considering the overwhelming success of the iPod and its successors, the consuming public doesn't feel harmed by this arrangement. Those who do or simply desire another player, have many other options. That said, Apple's whining excuse about not wanting to have to support other hardware is lame. If it's about propping up the bottom line, just say so. Frankly, I can't stand the way iTunes mangles your music collection. I lost my iPod Classic walking out to the garage at work recently, somebody found a nice surprise on the sidewalk that day, and I don't miss iTunes. It took me days to get my collection back to normal, deleting all the ghost folders and all the pointers to compilations iTunes left littered throughout, along with just plain odd stuff that it did. I bought a used Zune 80 off of eBay for $100 to replace it (in excellent condition--no scratches or damage at all) and I'm very satisfied. I almost didn't bid, since it was the first auction I came across and had only 12 minutes left, but I took a chance and got a bargain! Since then almost every auction has been $125 and up. Amazon has a good selection of really inexpensive accessories for it. Nothing even remotely approaching the selections available for iPods, but good enough. Now, I have all these iPod accessories to get rid of. The Zune 80 is a very nice, solid player with a screen about twice the size of the iPod Classic. The cover art is big and beautiful when playing music and watching video podcasts isn't a squinting chore any longer for my aging eyes. I find the squircle controller (yes, stupid name) on the Zune device to be easier and more accurate to use than the iPod's rotary dial. No turning down the volume when attempting to do something else entirely. Happiness. The Zune software, while not perfect, leaves my music alone and doesn't try to manage it for me. It's *much* better at finding missing album art, even the rare stuff; no store account required as with iTunes. Oddly, it doesn't broadly display the cover art during playback as does the Zune itself. There is a lot of white space in the software's interface and it lacks some of the fine controls of iTunes. But, considering that it doesn't think that it knows better than I do about data management, it's a worthwhile trade-off. I installed Songbird on the upstairs computer and it's pretty good. Fairly iTunes-like in appearance, almost a cross between iTunes and Winamp, but I'm still getting used to it. It seems to leave the music collection alone as well, but it doesn't support Zune yet, so it's just for playback in the living area. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
That was dammit- but my damned software corrected it... Eschew Obfuscation This is a reply from: Roy A. Ackerman, Ph.D., E.A. Financial, Managerial, and Technical Services for the Professional, Non-Profit, and the Entrepreneurial Organization 703.548.1343 voice 703.783.1340 fax From thinking to doing, from sales to profits, from tax to investments- we are YOUR adjuvancy -Original Message- From: Roy A. Ackerman, Ph.D., E.A. [mailto:acker...@astrecg.com] Sent: 07/15/2009 10:50 PM To: 'Computer Guys Discussion List' Subject: RE: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes So, if Microsoft elected to STOP you from using another browser- it's their software, admit, leave me alone- it would be ok. I love the consistency of Apple apologists. May you all get your just desserts (or is that deserts) Eschew Obfuscation This is a reply from: Roy A. Ackerman, Ph.D., E.A. Financial, Managerial, and Technical Services for the Professional, Non-Profit, and the Entrepreneurial Organization 703.548.1343 voice 703.783.1340 fax From thinking to doing, from sales to profits, from tax to investments- we are YOUR adjuvancy -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:computerguy...@listserv.aol.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Wright Sent: 07/15/2009 10:20 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:06 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: They really are temping the anti-trust hammer of justice, aren't they? I hope the DOJ smites them good. I don't. It's their software, they can cripple it any damn way they want. Take your business elsewhere if you don't like it. Considering the overwhelming success of the iPod and its successors, the consuming public doesn't feel harmed by this arrangement. Those who do or simply desire another player, have many other options. That said, Apple's whining excuse about not wanting to have to support other hardware is lame. If it's about propping up the bottom line, just say so. Frankly, I can't stand the way iTunes mangles your music collection. I lost my iPod Classic walking out to the garage at work recently, somebody found a nice surprise on the sidewalk that day, and I don't miss iTunes. It took me days to get my collection back to normal, deleting all the ghost folders and all the pointers to compilations iTunes left littered throughout, along with just plain odd stuff that it did. I bought a used Zune 80 off of eBay for $100 to replace it (in excellent condition--no scratches or damage at all) and I'm very satisfied. I almost didn't bid, since it was the first auction I came across and had only 12 minutes left, but I took a chance and got a bargain! Since then almost every auction has been $125 and up. Amazon has a good selection of really inexpensive accessories for it. Nothing even remotely approaching the selections available for iPods, but good enough. Now, I have all these iPod accessories to get rid of. The Zune 80 is a very nice, solid player with a screen about twice the size of the iPod Classic. The cover art is big and beautiful when playing music and watching video podcasts isn't a squinting chore any longer for my aging eyes. I find the squircle controller (yes, stupid name) on the Zune device to be easier and more accurate to use than the iPod's rotary dial. No turning down the volume when attempting to do something else entirely. Happiness. The Zune software, while not perfect, leaves my music alone and doesn't try to manage it for me. It's *much* better at finding missing album art, even the rare stuff; no store account required as with iTunes. Oddly, it doesn't broadly display the cover art during playback as does the Zune itself. There is a lot of white space in the software's interface and it lacks some of the fine controls of iTunes. But, considering that it doesn't think that it knows better than I do about data management, it's a worthwhile trade-off. I installed Songbird on the upstairs computer and it's pretty good. Fairly iTunes-like in appearance, almost a cross between iTunes and Winamp, but I'm still getting used to it. It seems to leave the music collection alone as well, but it doesn't support Zune yet, so it's just for playback in the living area. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
So, if Microsoft elected to STOP you from using another browser- it's their software, admit, leave me alone- it would be ok. I love the consistency of Apple apologists. May you all get your just desserts (or is that deserts) Apple apologist? Are you talking to me? OK, let's pretend that MS did stop me from using another browser, and the answer is no, that wouldn't be OK by me, but yes, it's OK in the scheme of free enterprise. It's their product and it shouldn't be subject to the whims and *cough* wisdom of bureaucrats and rent-seeking competitors. I suspect their customers might have a different opinion of such a ill-informed move and would communicate that in many ways, not the least of which is with their feet and dollars. It would significantly lower the value of their product to me. I can always buy an Apple or roll a Linux desktop. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
