Re: [CGUYS] Mac Market Share At 11%
On Mar 2, 2010, at 9:01 PM, mike wrote: Shouldn't it be web usage share? Short of hiring the Census, this is probably the most accurate way to get a count. Since Mac hardware outlasts PC hardware by at least a factor of two, hardware sales numbers count a lot of churn as people constantly replace their cheap PC hardware. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Mac Market Share At 11%
You Windoz weenies still don't get it, do you. Mac users need to use multiple browsers that can mask the OS, because there are still millions of web sites, many of them commercial that block Macs or distort their experience. This isn't some clueless individual who's still using FrontPage either. I had to contact SuperPages.com last week because a random message told me that I needed a newer version of IE--IE was discontinued for Macs years ago--or else I couldn't view their maps. Masking browser ID and OS has been necessary for Mac users since we figured out how to do it a dozen years ago. It's built into Safari, Opera, iCab, and a simple add-on in Mozilla browsers. Thus, no matter how limited or encompassing the survey population, it won't show all of the Mac users. More accurately, some specific subset of web use share. If they've got a single mac-centric website in the mix like 2-pop then all the figures could be skewed. All current figures I've seen show Mac holding at around 5%, and I just checked my own AWstats blah blah blah On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 9:01 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: Shouldn't it be web usage share? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Mac Market Share At 11%
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 9:27 AM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: Short of hiring the Census, this is probably the most accurate way to get a count. Since Mac hardware outlasts PC hardware by at least a factor of two, hardware sales numbers count a lot of churn as people constantly replace their cheap PC hardware. No disagreement here. However, since most of these comparisons of alleged market share are exactly that, market share, then sales are all that matter. Planned obsolescence is a tactic that is used to increase sales over a period of time. Manufacturing items of a lesser grade is a similar tactic. Yes, there are probably more Macs in use than market share, or rather items sold, would indicate. Simply put, I tend to view market share versus items in use as two distinctly different things. I know folks in business, all guys by the way, who replace all their Windows machines every two years or so, sometimes even sooner. They view this as a routine procedure be there any real need for it or not. They will tell me that they fear consequences if they do not have the latest technology available, once again, whether they need it or not. I also know some female business owners who use Windows in their businesses and they do not take this approach at all. They tend to keep their machines until they are falling apart. I think this is simply a male vs. female thing, with guys feeling less than adequate if their various toys are not always new and shiny, being the latest and greatest. They tend to regard their cars in the same light. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Mac Market Share At 11%
Not just you Mac users. I find that often when we are trying to do something with Governmental web sites. If we do not use IE or Opera it will not work right. Firefox just cant do what they want it to do, or it is coded to sue imbeded IE commands. Stewart At 09:05 AM 3/3/2010, you wrote: You Windoz weenies still don't get it, do you. Mac users need to use multiple browsers that can mask the OS, because there are still millions of web sites, many of them commercial that block Macs or distort their experience. This isn't some clueless individual who's still using FrontPage either. I had to contact SuperPages.com last week because a random message told me that I needed a newer version of IE--IE was discontinued for Macs years ago--or else I couldn't view their maps. Masking browser ID and OS has been necessary for Mac users since we figured out how to do it a dozen years ago. It's built into Safari, Opera, iCab, and a simple add-on in Mozilla browsers. Thus, no matter how limited or encompassing the survey population, it won't show all of the Mac users. More accurately, some specific subset of web use share. If they've got a single mac-centric website in the mix like 2-pop then all the figures could be skewed. All current figures I've seen show Mac holding at around 5%, and I just checked my own AWstats blah blah blah On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 9:01 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: Shouldn't it be web usage share? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Mac Market Share At 11%
As I stated earlier Non Profits tend to be the last ones to upgrade machines. Also schools are notoriously behind. I can go into the local school and still find some Windows 98/ME users. I worked on one of my members machines a few weeks ago and it is still a Windows ME machine. PC hardware sticks around a long time (Ask my wife I have bins full.) However the design and upgrade path among PC manufacturers is faster than Apple as there are more of them. Remember Apple is a hardware manufacturer that also sells software. They are the ones who limit their turn around cycle. PC Manufacturers on the other hand are solely hardware manufacturers trying to compete in a bigger market so they push changes and upgrades all the time. Matter of fact I think just the other day I was reading where Apple is way behind on the processor cycle. They have not introduced any Intel I5 based machines yet. Stewart At 09:42 AM 3/3/2010, you wrote: No disagreement here. However, since most of these comparisons of alleged market share are exactly that, market share, then sales are all that matter. Planned obsolescence is a tactic that is used to increase sales over a period of time. Manufacturing items of a lesser grade is a similar tactic. Yes, there are probably more Macs in use than market share, or rather items sold, would indicate. Simply put, I tend to view market share versus items in use as two distinctly different things. I know folks in business, all guys by the way, who replace all their Windows machines every two years or so, sometimes even sooner. They view this as a routine procedure be there any real need for it or not. They will tell me that they fear consequences if they do not have the latest technology available, once again, whether they need it or not. I also know some female business owners who use Windows in their businesses and they do not take this approach at all. They tend to keep their machines until they are falling apart. I think this is simply a male vs. female thing, with guys feeling less than adequate if their various toys are not always new and shiny, being the latest and greatest. They tend to regard their cars in the same light. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Mac Market Share At 11%
I agree with Betty, but want to add a browser to her list of browsers masking ID - OmniWeb. Steve betty wrote: You Windoz weenies still don't get it, do you. Mac users need to use multiple browsers that can mask the OS, because there are still millions of web sites, many of them commercial that block Macs or distort their experience. This isn't some clueless individual who's still using FrontPage either. I had to contact SuperPages.com last week because a random message told me that I needed a newer version of IE--IE was discontinued for Macs years ago--or else I couldn't view their maps. Masking browser ID and OS has been necessary for Mac users since we figured out how to do it a dozen years ago. It's built into Safari, Opera, iCab, and a simple add-on in Mozilla browsers. Thus, no matter how limited or encompassing the survey population, it won't show all of the Mac users. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Mac Market Share At 11%
On Mar 3, 2010, at 10:42 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: However, since most of these comparisons of alleged market share are exactly that, market share, then sales are all that matter. That is disingenuous. We are talking about computers in use. Your method would be like stating the US population by just counting births instead of looking at how many people are really here. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Mac Market Share At 11%
No, we are talking about computers that access the interner, not ones in use. I have three running at my house, one doesn't get online at all. On Mar 3, 2010 9:57 AM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Mar 3, 2010, at 10:42 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: However, since most of these comparisons... That is disingenuous. We are talking about computers in use. Your method would be like stating the US population by just counting births instead of looking at how many people are really here. * ** List info, subscrip... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Mac Market Share At 11%
On Mar 3, 2010, at 10:05 AM, betty wrote: Mac users need to use multiple browsers that can mask the OS, because there are still millions of web sites, many of them commercial that block Macs or distort their experience. Good point. So they will be undercounting. Thus Mac share is more like 15%. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Mac Market Share At 11%
Slow down. There is a lot of old Windows machines still in use. In our house we have about 6 computers in use. Just not at the same time. I have three, my wife has one, and my youngest has two. But that does not include a couple of other machines I have upstairs that still run, just in different stages of set up. So I am not the average user, but I know many families that have multiple computes in use. So sales is a good indicator. What do you think happens to the machine that gets replaced? You think it is put in a dump? It is used by someone I assure you that. Years (Decade and a half) ago I populated my home (and gave each of my kids a computer) by recycling the ones I took in trade when I installed a new one. By the way population rates are one of the indicators of what is happening, just not the only one. Stewart At 10:41 AM 3/3/2010, you wrote: On Mar 3, 2010, at 10:42 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: However, since most of these comparisons of alleged market share are exactly that, market share, then sales are all that matter. That is disingenuous. We are talking about computers in use. Your method would be like stating the US population by just counting births instead of looking at how many people are really here. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Mac Market Share At 11%
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 11:41 AM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Mar 3, 2010, at 10:42 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: However, since most of these comparisons of alleged market share are exactly that, market share, then sales are all that matter. That is disingenuous. We are talking about computers in use. Your method would be like stating the US population by just counting births instead of looking at how many people are really here. Not at all. The term, market share, by definition, is related solely to how many units are sold, not how many are in use. If you want to talk about how many are in use, then that is the question to be asked. This thread is titled Mac Market Share At 11%. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Mac Market Share At 11%
On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 13:15:07 -0500, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 11:41 AM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: That is disingenuous. We are talking about computers in use. Your method would be like stating the US population by just counting births instead of looking at how many people are really here. Not at all. The term, market share, by definition, is related solely to how many units are sold, not how many are in use. If you want to talk about how many are in use, then that is the question to be asked. This thread is titled Mac Market Share At 11%. And would therefore be mistitled, because the (original) content has to do with Internet use stats--what percentage of computers on the Internet (in the cited survey) are Macs. -- R:\katan - SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Mac Market Share At 11%
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 2:48 PM, katan ka...@his.com wrote: And would therefore be mistitled, because the (original) content has to do with Internet use stats--what percentage of computers on the Internet (in the cited survey) are Macs. You are correct. I did not provide the title for the thread. Most discussions in this forum as well as elsewhere that center upon Macintosh vs. Windows focus on market share whenever attempts are made to evaluate popularity. For better or for worse, that is the standard measure employed in the United States when it comes to commercial products. There are other factors that may be considered, but sales figures remain paramount in the U.S. of A. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Mac Market Share At 11%
I guess I can't see the meaningfulness of this stat. I regularly use 3 computers; a OSX 10.6 MBP and 1 each XP Pro and Vista machine. I use my MBP mostly for web activities like reading and posting in forums as well as surfing while in the living room or on trips. The Windows boxes have 2 browsers and 3 browsers, respectively. I run 3 browsers on the MBP while I rarely use any browser on the XP box which is used for solely for catching podcasts and streamed shows. I have yet to find a site that won't load in Safari but I rarely use Safari on the MBP since navigating through 1,000 posts in forums is a pain when some threads are pages deep. Firebox has a simple icon for quickly navigating through 9 or 10 pages of history. In Safari, I need a mouse to access that page history selectively. So for me, how would their statistical technique say I am represented on the web? And, if one could categorize me, what difference does it make anyway? Comparisons are odious. We must try to contribute joy to the world. That is true no matter what our problems, our health, our circumstances. We must try. I didn't always know this, and am happy I lived long enough to find it out. - Roger Ebert Subject: Re: Mac Market Share At 11% On Mar 3, 2010, at 10:42 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: However, since most of these comparisons of alleged market share are exactly that, market share, then sales are all that matter. That is disingenuous. We are talking about computers in use. Your method would be like stating the US population by just counting births instead of looking at how many people are really here. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Mac Market Share At 11%
http://blog.quantcast.com/quantcast/2010/02/os-share.html Also note the plot of Windows gradual decline. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Mac Market Share At 11%
Shouldn't it be web usage share? On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 6:27 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: http://blog.quantcast.com/quantcast/2010/02/os-share.html Also note the plot of Windows gradual decline. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Mac Market Share At 11%
More accurately, some specific subset of web use share. If they've got a single mac-centric website in the mix like 2-pop then all the figures could be skewed. All current figures I've seen show Mac holding at around 5%, and I just checked my own AWstats and that's still pretty much the case with 4.7%. But it *is* an increase from 2/08 when Macs were at 2.1%. Windows was 89.8% in 2/08 and has pretty much held steady with 92.5% 2/10. On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 9:01 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: Shouldn't it be web usage share? On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 6:27 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: http://blog.quantcast.com/quantcast/2010/02/os-share.html Also note the plot of Windows gradual decline. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
