Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
We use Cisco IP Phones (7941 model) and it is reliable. I am in a large building with hundreds of coworkers, so it may be an economy of scale. I do not know what, if any, network-to-telecom hardware or software configuration is used. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Is VOIP a sane option today? I see if offered by various startup companies for free. Is there a reliable version that can be used by someone who depends on their telephones working? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
Cisco has great solutions for in house IP phone systems. Extremely easy to configure etc. Mike On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 4:14 AM, Snyder, Mark (IT CIV) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We use Cisco IP Phones (7941 model) and it is reliable. I am in a large building with hundreds of coworkers, so it may be an economy of scale. I do not know what, if any, network-to-telecom hardware or software configuration is used. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Is VOIP a sane option today? I see if offered by various startup companies for free. Is there a reliable version that can be used by someone who depends on their telephones working? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
A phone call is easy in a circuit switched environment (well not exactly but you get my point). As long as you can seize a circuit it's yours. A a 64K data stream would consume less than 1% of a slow Ethernet (10 Mbps) LAN. So providing good VIOP in house would be no problem. The capacity problem only happens on the WAN. So I'm thinking that a system that uses IP in house with the option of connecting to either the PSTN or an IP network would be the wisest thing to shop for today. Thanks. This is very helpful. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
Cisco has great solutions for in house IP phone systems. Extremely easy to configure etc. Do they make them for small organisations? Say 30 phones? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
We use Cisco IP Phones (7941 model) and it is reliable. I am in a large building with hundreds of coworkers, so it may be an economy of scale. I do not know what, if any, network-to-telecom hardware or software configuration is used. That is where I see such installations. I'm thinking that a large organization can have the on-site support to make it work. A small organization would have to let the thing run unattended and that could be a problem. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
I'll look up the exact info on the cisco stuff, the number of phones I was talking to a friend that was implementing the solution was only about 10. For more then that it gets into a different area (read more money). http://www.switchvox.com/ That company uses a linux solution for the same deal as the cisco one. Very interesting what they are doing. Mike On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 8:19 AM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cisco has great solutions for in house IP phone systems. Extremely easy to configure etc. Do they make them for small organisations? Say 30 phones? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
Tom, Tom, Google cisco ip phone 7941 and get the product information (Cisco has pdf model information). I am not sure if you'd need anything except the phones. We have no onsite support people for this. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Piwowar Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:07 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL? We use Cisco IP Phones (7941 model) and it is reliable. I am in a large building with hundreds of coworkers, so it may be an economy of scale. I do not know what, if any, network-to-telecom hardware or software configuration is used. That is where I see such installations. I'm thinking that a large organization can have the on-site support to make it work. A small organization would have to let the thing run unattended and that could be a problem. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
That was the age old problem with Novell. I did not recommend it for a small user group as it could be high in maintenance. Stewart At 11:06 AM 6/19/2008, you wrote: That is where I see such installations. I'm thinking that a large organization can have the on-site support to make it work. A small organization would have to let the thing run unattended and that could be a problem. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
A very nice solution for a small office (30 users) is Cisco Call Manager Express. It runs on a Cisco router, even their smallest ISR platform, the 1800 series. You can run it on a Cisco 2811, put a PRI interface in it if you need that many PSTN connections (23) or a four port FXO card and connect four POTS lines to it. Your in-office calls will go through the office LAN and whenever someone dials 9 for an outside line they roll over to a POTS line. The setup is not trivial, but not too much for a giant like Dr. Piwowar. You'll need to think about ensuring that your office LAN has enough bandwidth for the normal data traffic and the new VoIP traffic. One of my colleagues calculated the B/W for our bank branch VoIP at about 51Kbps per call, so 8 concurrent calls would eat up about 409Kbps -- shouldn't be a problem for a 100Mb LAN. The real bite is the handsets. Those things are really expensive and where Cisco et al make their profit. 7960s which are at the low end are $40-$60 a piece while the more capable phones (extra buttons, color display) can run hundreds. -Mike __ Michel David Lowe -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:COMPUTERGUYS- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Piwowar Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:01 AM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL? A phone call is easy in a circuit switched environment (well not exactly but you get my point). As long as you can seize a circuit it's yours. A a 64K data stream would consume less than 1% of a slow Ethernet (10 Mbps) LAN. So providing good VIOP in house would be no problem. The capacity problem only happens on the WAN. So I'm thinking that a system that uses IP in house with the option of connecting to either the PSTN or an IP network would be the wisest thing to shop for today. Thanks. This is very helpful. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
A a 64K data stream would consume less than 1% of a slow Ethernet (10 Mbps) LAN. So providing good VIOP in house would be no problem. The capacity problem only happens on the WAN. Not necessarily... any two modern computers copying a large file over a LAN can easily saturate a 10 or 100Mbps LAN (at least point to point). Bigger VOIP installations typically implement traffic prioritization (which is one of the reasons Cisco loves them), but I expect that if you were careful about your LAN layout in a small business it would be fine. So I'm thinking that a system that uses IP in house with the option of connecting to either the PSTN or an IP network would be the wisest thing to shop for today. FWIW- When I was a small biz IT consultant I had 4 different clients in the last 3 years in the 10-30 employee range go through a diligent phone system selection process (which I was not involved with). All of them considered the typical VOIP systems offered to the small business market. One chose an Avaya VOIP system, the others all went with traditional NEC systems. There were two features that sold the one client on VOIP: the ability to inexpensively host their own conference calls (they were an NGO and had been paying a fortune for international conference calling) and the ability to place fully-functional extensions at remote locations that connected to the office system via Internet. None of the other organizations had a particular need for either of these features, and considered the VOIP systems to be more expensive and relatively untested. The NEC systems have been completely reliable. Getting back to T1, I didn't read the whole thread, but would suggest an alternative to T1 that is more reliable, faster, and far cheaper: a DSL and a cable connection together. This provides complete redundancy, with no shared infrastructure between the two carriers, and there are several SMB firewalls / routers that have two WAN ports and can do *outbound* load balancing for Internet traffic even on low-end connections with dynamically-assigned IP. My favorite is the Snapgear SG560, but Sonicwall also does this well (with appropriate upgrades). -Robert * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
When I wrote about Cisco Call Manager Express earlier I completely blanked on Asterisk! Asterisk is a GNU OpenBSD IP PBX application. It's a free download and supports all the popular VoIP protocols (SCCP, MGCP, H.323 and SIP) plus it claims to support Cisco phones. From Asterisk's website it looks like the product supports many of the most popular PBX features and runs on various flavors of Linux and Unix. http://www.asterisk.org/ My customers have all been big enterprises who, if interested in VoIP, have voice data networking staff to support VoIP and aren't afraid to buy an Avaya, Cisco, or Nortel IP PBX - the VoIP equivalent of big iron. Full disclosure: I own Cisco stock but have no financial interest at all in Asterisk. Maybe someone on the list has some experience with Asterisk or its competitors. -Mike __ Michel David Lowe Purcellville, VA * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * image001.jpg
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
Well, you're not going to be able to make a phone call (other than a VOIP call) over a data only T1. It depends on how your T1 is designed. I consider T1 to be too broad a term for specific use. It's really a descriptor of an interface level, not an application level. Is VOIP a sane option today? I see if offered by various startup companies for free. Is there a reliable version that can be used by someone who depends on their telephones working? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
Is VOIP a sane option today? I see if offered by various startup companies for free. Is there a reliable version that can be used by someone who depends on their telephones working? I would characterize it as a developing technology. It is certainly where the carriers want to go because circuit switching is less resource efficient (although more reliable at voice calls at this point). VoIP is packet switching, which potentially can make voice calls just another datastream. We are experimenting with this at this point. We call it softswitching, which it is. It is not yet a core network technology. One of the major problems is guaranteeing QOS over the network. With VoIP you never know where the packets are going to be routed. In circuit switched applications the carrier controls the entire datastream, we lock a 64K channel for the call duration. We dedicate your channel for that call. Doesn't matter what facilities are used to do this, until you hang up you own the 64K. Actually you only own 56K of it, we still own the 8K signalling overhead unless you pay for ISDN, then you own the 64K but you pay extra for the signalling. But it still amounts to a locked channel. A phone call is easy in a circuit switched environment (well not exactly but you get my point). As long as you can seize a circuit it's yours. If all available circuits are busy you'll be told that. One of the classic network management problems is balancing capacity versus demand. Of course you run into the Mother's Day Issue which could now be called the 9/11 Issue, where the circuit switched capacity is overwhelmed. Fast busy tells you we don't have circuit switched bandwidth to handle the call. Or the carrier facilities don't, normally we're nice enough to give you a voice message. Can VoIP potentially solve this? Possibly. It's frankly a network topology issue and we're working on it. Most tests suggest that dropped packets can still be a problem in a VoIP environment as far as voice quality is concerned. So I'd say that packet switched voice isn't there yet for the regulated network but we're working on it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
Thanks to everyone for my rapid education and confirmation of my prejudices. I'm especially thrilled to have all this new jargon to throw around! You all lead me to conclude... T1 at 1.5 Mbps is no big deal and hardly competes with Business ADSL 3.0/2.5 service priced at $60 month. Business FIOS looks even better at 15 Mbps both ways for $99/mo. Metro Ethernet would look interesting, providing a 10 Mbps connection, but the $1300/month price is off putting. Way overpriced compared to Business FIOS. Some lines being sold as T1 may really be DSL. If so, I need to find out if the client was talking T1 because they were hoping to use some of it for accessing the PSTN (Public Switched Telephone Network). DSL won't be good for that. Need to check prices carefully because a bunch of individual business lines may cost less than an T1. I see that there are also lots of alternatives out there: - TLS (Transparent LAN Service) useful to interconnect distant offices. - SONET and GigE look to be too high capacity for what I'm doing The one issue I'm still worrying about is the scare about uptime guarantee. If the client decides to rely heavily on VOIP then the reliability of the service becomes more of an issue. But then, a couple of years ago we lost our business's phones for 3 days after a downtown flood, but never lost the DSL. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
Adelphia did NOTHING to upgrade its service (probably the bankruptcy court wouldn't let them if they wanted to) and Comcast has done little besides a) repaint the trucks; b) hire different undocumented workers to trench in the coax; Wow! You mean you actually went out there and asked those guys for their papers to make sure they were or were not legal? I know a number of Mexican workers who are in my neighborhood often and they are not illegals so maybe we shouldn't assume too much. g Paula IN/USA Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, wine in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming WOO HOO what a ride! Have a wonderful day! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
Wow! You mean you actually went out there and asked those guys for their papers to make sure they were or were not legal? What a patriot! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
Please explain what you mean about touching the switched network. If you dial a phone number you are accessing what we call the PSTN, or Public Switched Telephone Network. We usually classify services as either switched or unswitched. A T1 can be either depending on configuration. In a switched voice environment it could be a digital handoff, or 24 56K voice channels, either inbound, outbound or two-way. That is not as common now as it once was but it's out there. Signalling is what we call in band, that is the 8K of bandwidth above the 56K is used for signalling, e. g. call setup and teardown, timing, etc. Very much like a set of POTS lines or trunks. ISDN PRI is also a flavor of T1, properly referred to as DS1. This is a channelized T1 consisting of 23 64K DS0 channels and a dedicated D channel for signalling. Because the signalling is routed over a separate channel it's referred to as out of band, you get the whole 64K of each channel for either voice or data. There's more to it than that but that's the basics as far as switched telephony over T1/DS1 level carrier. Do you mean that T1 can be used for both data and POTS? Well, you're not going to be able to make a phone call (other than a VOIP call) over a data only T1. It depends on how your T1 is designed. I consider T1 to be too broad a term for specific use. It's really a descriptor of an interface level, not an application level. Would using T1 for POTS save any money? If the T1 costs $500 per month (a wild guess without actually looking it up) and you get 24 channels, that's $21.00 per month per channel. Which is about the cost of a business POTS line. If T1 costs 10 times more than DSL or FIOS do I really want to make any effort to get T1..? I'd say not, unless you have a mission critical data or voice application that's going to benefit from the Service Level Agreement. If you need a significantly higher level of bandwidth you are not shopping for T1s. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
I need a technology update. Somebody just asked me about dropping DSL for a T1 line. Is not T1 old infrastructure that phone vendors are looking to unload on the unwary? I know that T1 is regulated and comes with SLAs (Service Level Agreements), but I think that would have little meaning to most customers and would just make it more expensive than equivalent-speed DSL. Also, is it not true that provisioning and maintaining T1 is more complicated? I see some articles on the web touting T1, but it looks like the web is being salted by carriers who want to sell T1. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
The only difference I would be able to see is that they would not be able to put the limits on a T1 line like they can with a home level DSL line. Also I would think throughput would generally be a little better. But that is only conjecture. That being said. They were very expensive at one time. Stewart At 10:06 AM 6/13/2008, you wrote: I need a technology update. Somebody just asked me about dropping DSL for a T1 line. Is not T1 old infrastructure that phone vendors are looking to unload on the unwary? I know that T1 is regulated and comes with SLAs (Service Level Agreements), but I think that would have little meaning to most customers and would just make it more expensive than equivalent-speed DSL. Also, is it not true that provisioning and maintaining T1 is more complicated? I see some articles on the web touting T1, but it looks like the web is being salted by carriers who want to sell T1. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
T1 is literally technology from another century and is only good for 1.544 m/sec, required specially conditioned dedicated leased circuits, and is extremely expensive. I cannot imagine what possible value it would have in today's data communications environment. And, unless I am wrong, is considered point to point with no access to the Internet. Maybe some telcos are selling something different these days, but that is my understanding from when I sold T1 for the Bell System back in the 1960s. Mike Tom Piwowar wrote: I need a technology update. Somebody just asked me about dropping DSL for a T1 line. Is not T1 old infrastructure that phone vendors are looking to unload on the unwary? I know that T1 is regulated and comes with SLAs (Service Level Agreements), but I think that would have little meaning to most customers and would just make it more expensive than equivalent-speed DSL. Also, is it not true that provisioning and maintaining T1 is more complicated? I see some articles on the web touting T1, but it looks like the web is being salted by carriers who want to sell T1. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
I think thins line from the Wikipedia article is significant: T1 now seems to mean any data circuit that runs at the original 1.544 Mbit/s line rate. So, I would want to know just what is being sold as a T1 line. I don't think it is old infrastructure per se - you can get a T1 line over both fiber and copper, the key being that the signal is digital not analog, and can handle up to 24 voice channels simultaneously, or a fat load of data. Maintaining a T1 line on the user side is trivial - you plug it into the router using the vendor's configuration. Back in the day we use a pair of separately routed T1 lines to guarantee uptime for our HQ. Never went down so long as the building had power (and even then the line did not go down, but the router's UPS eventually would give up the ghost and the landlord would not allow a generator). So, just what is being sold? Does it include an SLA? Matthew On Jun 13, 2008, at 11:06 AM, Tom Piwowar wrote: I need a technology update. Somebody just asked me about dropping DSL for a T1 line. Is not T1 old infrastructure that phone vendors are looking to unload on the unwary? I know that T1 is regulated and comes with SLAs (Service Level Agreements), but I think that would have little meaning to most customers and would just make it more expensive than equivalent- speed DSL. Also, is it not true that provisioning and maintaining T1 is more complicated? I see some articles on the web touting T1, but it looks like the web is being salted by carriers who want to sell T1. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
I need a technology update. Somebody just asked me about dropping DSL for a T1 line. T1s make sense in certain circumstances. In channelized voice applications (digital handoff) they can actually be less expensive than multiple individual lines or trunks. In data only applications it depends. A T1 is 1.544 mbps. DSL can be twice that at a fraction of the cost, but it's asymmetric in most cases. That means that if you are a business user you are not going to get reliable bidirectional speeds, which you will get out of a T1. I would much rather sell you Transparent LAN (TLS) or its big brother, GigE. TLS is 10 mbps or 100 mbps. GigE1 is 1 gps. This isn't impressive in terms of a LAN, but in a WAN environment it is screaming I see some articles on the web touting T1, but it looks like the web is being salted by carriers who want to sell T1. I'll sell you a T1 if it's the best solution. For a home user it usually isn't. It depends on what you need to do. I can also hook you up with GigE3. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
Any discounts? GigE3 isn't even on Wikipedia yet, tell us about it. No discounts yet. Look under SONET. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
This is how you connect using a DSL line, because it too is point-to-point to an ISP. Right, exactly. DSL doesn't touch the switched network. A T1 can touch the switched network (for voice applications in the case of a digital handoff or PRI) or it can be point to point to an ISP POP or to another customer location. It all depends on how the technology is deployed. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
The dirty little secret of T1 is that in the Bell Atlantic footprint most T1s are DSL in drag. Verizon uses big optical circuits for their trunks and peel off T1 T3 from OC-3/OC-12/OC-48 SONET fiber circuits. The T1 is actually an SDSL (Synchronous DSL -- same speed upstream and down) circuit. When I sold Internet services for Verizon we ran specials where we'd through in a router if you signed up for the T1. But if you can get FiOS at 5Mbps that would be my first bet, then DSL. I have a personal disgust of Comcast (It's Crap-tastic!) based on the poor service they provide on their flagship product, home TV. Their lousy network drops so many packets so frequently the HD channels are sometimes un-watchable with all the pixilation and stuttering sound. I have no interest in giving them my voice and/or Internet business. I've had DSL out here in the toolies for five years and it has been rock-solid. I just ran DSL Reports speed test. Between Western Loudoun and Speakeasy in NY, I got 1.479Mb down and 139Kb up. So I'm already getting 95% of a T1 downstream for $28.90/month or so. -Mike __ Michel David Lowe -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:COMPUTERGUYS- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric S. Sande Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 12:25 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL? I need a technology update. Somebody just asked me about dropping DSL for a T1 line. T1s make sense in certain circumstances. In channelized voice applications (digital handoff) they can actually be less expensive than multiple individual lines or trunks. snip * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
Tony, When I was selling this for Verizon, it was so expensive only businesses (and of course your government) could afford it. It's basically a 1,000Mb (Gig-E) Ethernet handoff from the carrier. You actually would have to buy a second circuit to connect to your ISP like this: You --Verizon--ISP Gig-EGig-E If Vz is your ISP they'll cut you a deal on the bundle, but you're still talking about thousands per month. But it's really screaming fast! It's biggest advantage is ease of customer installation and maintenance. You may not have ATM or POS interface cards in your router but you've surely got a 10/100/1000 port on something. And if you are an e-business or Fairfax County Schools, where most of your curriculum is web-based or has a high web content (their ISP link was running over 500Mb during school hours last year), your only real solution is Gig-E. -Mike __ Michel David Lowe -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:COMPUTERGUYS- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony B Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 12:37 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL? Any discounts? GigE3 isn't even on Wikipedia yet, tell us about it. And how do these compare to docsis3? On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Eric S. Sande [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can also hook you up with GigE3. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
It's opposite here. DSL is horrid and expensive and going nowherecourse DSL being such old tech has nowhere to go. Cable is rock solid and inexpensive, 70 bux for 2 up 18mbit down and we regularly see 25mbit+, my DSL costs 28 and I get 1.1mbit.Qwest corp. has told me they have zero plans on upgrading anywhere here in Arizona, so everyone is stuck with DSL, which even if you are sitting on the dslam is much slower then cable. My only hope where I live is some form of wimax coming in, I feel waves of depression when I consider I might be stuck with DSL for the duration. I had faster speeds six years ago. Mike On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 10:16 AM, Michel Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But if you can get FiOS at 5Mbps that would be my first bet, then DSL. I have a personal disgust of Comcast (It's Crap-tastic!) based on the poor service they provide on their flagship product, home TV. Their lousy network drops so many packets so frequently the HD channels are sometimes un-watchable with all the pixilation and stuttering sound. I have no interest in giving them my voice and/or Internet business. I've had DSL out here in the toolies for five years and it has been rock-solid. I just ran DSL Reports speed test. Between Western Loudoun and Speakeasy in NY, I got 1.479Mb down and 139Kb up. So I'm already getting 95% of a T1 downstream for $28.90/month or so. -Mike * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
And they are still more expensive than DSL, although prices have dropped. We pay about $500/month for ours. There are outfits out there that say they can provide T1 for less, but I'd be curious if they can provide it for less and have guaranteed speeds. T1 lines run at 1.5 Mbps (up and down), and yes, it is old technology (at least, that's how I view it). Verizon's new technology, TLS (Transparent LAN Service) is fiber-based and is available in only a few areas (DC Metro is one). The lowest price version of this service, running at 10 Mbps, has a cost just a little higher than T1. The service goes up to 1,000 Mbps. Although designed as a LAN-to-LAN service, it can be used in standalone form, I'm told (one of our locations in the Northern Virginia area has the LAN-to-LAN version which works well). T1 and T3 are good speed choices for copper. TLS and FiOS (business version) are good otherwise, but the rub is that fiber isn't available everywhere yet. Where I am (Manassas), it is not going to come down our street anytime soon. Biggest difference (aside from cost), as far as I can see, between TLS and FiOS is TLS guarantees up/down speed, FiOS uses that waffle term up to. Adil At 11:41 AM 6/13/2008, you wrote: Date:Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:18:38 -0500 From:Rev. Stewart Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: T1 vs DSL? The only difference I would be able to see is that they would not be able to put the limits on a T1 line like they can with a home level DSL line. Also I would think throughput would generally be a little better. But that is only conjecture. That being said. They were very expensive at one time. Stewart At 10:06 AM 6/13/2008, you wrote: I need a technology update. Somebody just asked me about dropping DSL for a T1 line. Is not T1 old infrastructure that phone vendors are looking to unload on the unwary? I know that T1 is regulated and comes with SLAs (Service Level Agreements), but I think that would have little meaning to most customers and would just make it more expensive than equivalent-speed DSL. Also, is it not true that provisioning and maintaining T1 is more complicated? I see some articles on the web touting T1, but it looks like the web is being salted by carriers who want to sell T1. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
Qwest has been Ma Bell's red-headed step child since divestiture. They have the largest geographic footprint to cover and the smallest customer base to pay for it of the Big Three wire line carriers. It's not surprising your DSL sux. If you are happy with your cable Internet, stick with it. I'd be running from Qwest if it was my provider! In Northern Virginia we have mostly Cox and Comcast and out where I live the Comcast is really Adelphia's old service. Comcast bought their assets after Adelphia went under. Needless to say, Adelphia did NOTHING to upgrade its service (probably the bankruptcy court wouldn't let them if they wanted to) and Comcast has done little besides a) repaint the trucks; b) hire different undocumented workers to trench in the coax; c) raise rates. Oh, and now I get the Golf channel as part of my digital cable package. I've been tempted a couple of times to bite on one of their triple play bundles (cable/phone/Internet) -- it would be cheaper in the short run but I'm afraid more expensive in the long run. I work from home as much as possible and I cannot afford to be off the air because Comcast's Internet is no more reliable than their TV. -Mike __ Michel David Lowe -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:COMPUTERGUYS- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 2:17 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL? It's opposite here. DSL is horrid and expensive and going nowherecourse DSL being such old tech has nowhere to go. Cable is rock solid and inexpensive, 70 bux for 2 up 18mbit down and we regularly see 25mbit+, my DSL costs 28 and I get 1.1mbit.Qwest corp. has told me they have zero plans on upgrading anywhere here in Arizona, so everyone is stuck with DSL, which even if you are sitting on the dslam is much slower then cable. My only hope where I live is some form of wimax coming in, I feel waves of depression when I consider I might be stuck with DSL for the duration. I had faster speeds six years ago. Mike * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
TLS guarantees up/down speed, FiOS uses that waffle term up to. We guarantee TLS to perform to spec. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
