Re: [CGUYS] Verizon Doubles Early Termination Fee and More
Who are you talking about? On Nov 14, 2009 7:57 PM, "tjpa" wrote: On Nov 13, 2009, at 8:29 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: > > It's not simply labor and materials. There's R&D, d... PC vendors don't do R&D. Intel provides them with designs and M$ provides the OS. * ** List info, subscrip... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Verizon Doubles Early Termination Fee and More
On Nov 13, 2009, at 8:29 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: It's not simply labor and materials. There's R&D, design, production, salaries, benefits, advertising, marketing, transportation, wholesale/retail, online/stores, support, feedback-- and profits. The real cost isn't just the physical phone, like the iPhone contract vs full retail price, http://bit.ly/pOkXz. PC vendors don't do R&D. Intel provides them with designs and M$ provides the OS. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Verizon Doubles Early Termination Fee and More
I give up. On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 6:29 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: > It's not simply labor and materials. There's R&D, design, production, > salaries, benefits, advertising, marketing, transportation, > wholesale/retail, online/stores, support, feedback--and profits. The real > cost isn't just the physical phone, like the iPhone contract vs full retail > price, http://bit.ly/pOkXz. > > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Verizon Doubles Early Termination Fee and More
LTE is only being built out by VZ from what I've read. 20-30 markets by 2010, ATT is a no go on LTE. I've heard rumors that Tmobile is further a long then some believe and may be introducing killer prices and speed around Q1 2010. Verizon is not the only one. T-Mobile was first with LTE, with tests beginning early in 2008. By comparison, Verizon is late. The technology isn't final and there are several versions, plus the alternate, WiMax. As far as cost goes, I don't think I've been clear. I know what retail costs are, I'm wondering what the actual cost is of the phone for nokia or apple or HTC to make the phone. It's not simply labor and materials. There's R&D, design, production, salaries, benefits, advertising, marketing, transportation, wholesale/retail, online/stores, support, feedback--and profits. The real cost isn't just the physical phone, like the iPhone contract vs full retail price, http://bit.ly/pOkXz. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Verizon Doubles Early Termination Fee and More
On Nov 13, 2009, at 1:33 PM, mike wrote: Everyone knows the retail price, I'm asking actual cost. Oh, there he goes again! ^c^c^c * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Verizon Doubles Early Termination Fee and More
LTE is only being built out by VZ from what I've read. 20-30 markets by 2010, ATT is a no go on LTE. I've heard rumors that Tmobile is further a long then some believe and may be introducing killer prices and speed around Q1 2010. As far as cost goes, I don't think I've been clear. I know what retail costs are, I'm wondering what the actual cost is of the phone for nokia or apple or HTC to make the phone. On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 1:24 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: > > > European contracts are much better than in the US. Many are 18-month, they > offer more talk time, cheaper SMS, and many phones have built-in WiFi web or > for Skype or calls on the provider's own WiFi network, included in the > monthly fee. Several companies also include free broadband Internet for the > length of the contract. > > Most people in the US or anywhere don't read the fine print in the > contracts, but that's no excuse for VZ changing the terms whenever they want > to gouge more customers. VZ customers can't take their phones to another > provider like those whose phones are on a GSM network. > > Will phones on new LTE networks be easy to unlock and use with multiple > providers? > > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Verizon Doubles Early Termination Fee and More
My old phone had the hiccups and accidentally sent 40+ text messages to the first person in my phone book. After I called her to apologize, I called T-Mobile. They said it looked like a mistake and deleted charges for those messages. Would Verizon, AT&T or Sprint give credit for a mistake? This is another reason, why, when I move out west from the east coast, I am going to drop Verizon like a hot rock and, sign up with T-Mobile. T-Mobile just offered to change my plan. I have the basic plan, ~$30/mo, 300 min. For the same price, I can have 500 min., no contract. When was the last time Verizon improved their plans without raising prices? Does anyone know the real cost of these smart phones? I realize dev costs are in the initial price, but when phones have been out for some time like the iPhone, costs are extremely low. Consider also that a lot of these phones come out in europe first so many times the money has already been made back for creating the device. As far as these term fees go, anyone signing with a cell company knows what they are getting into, if they are prepared to pay this kind of fee then so be it. Verizon will either lose business or not, and we'll see their next move. I know exactly what these phones cost, since I don't want a contract. The smart phone I like is $280, and if it performs as well as my last Nokia phones, it's a much better deal than any contract phones. The price has come down from >$400 since it came out last winter, and I'll buy when it hits $250. My last phone cost $50 at an online auction, current phone is a free 'hand-me-up' from my son. European contracts are much better than in the US. Many are 18-month, they offer more talk time, cheaper SMS, and many phones have built-in WiFi web or for Skype or calls on the provider's own WiFi network, included in the monthly fee. Several companies also include free broadband Internet for the length of the contract. Most people in the US or anywhere don't read the fine print in the contracts, but that's no excuse for VZ changing the terms whenever they want to gouge more customers. VZ customers can't take their phones to another provider like those whose phones are on a GSM network. Will phones on new LTE networks be easy to unlock and use with multiple providers? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Verizon Doubles Early Termination Fee and More
Retail is retail. Apples price is their retail. What does the market bear and who buys an Iphone at retail? The tear down sites tell you their estimate! It is very difficult to get an actual cost basis as there are a lot of fungibles involved. I just read an article that gave the cost basis (estimated) for the meal deals you see advertised. Matter of fact Burger King franchisers are suing corporate as they feel they are being made to sell a product below their cost. (figuring in labor etc.) The cost basis is probably close to a real manufacturing cot, but it still shows how much of a mark up there is. The final arbiter is of course the real market. What will someone really pay for an item? Not one or two but the general public. Stewart At 12:11 PM 11/13/2009, you wrote: Apple will sell you a phone without a contract so that tells you the real retail price. The Mac tear-down sites will give you an estimate of the cost to build. So much better when you are not posting distracted. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Verizon Doubles Early Termination Fee and More
Everyone knows the retail price, I'm asking actual cost. On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:11 AM, tjpa wrote: > On Nov 13, 2009, at 12:38 PM, mike wrote: > >> Does anyone know the real cost of these smart phones? I realize dev costs >> are in the initial price, but when phones have been out for some time like >> the iPhone, costs are extremely low. >> > > Apple will sell you a phone without a contract so that tells you the real > retail price. The Mac tear-down sites will give you an estimate of the cost > to build. > > So much better when you are not posting distracted. > > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Verizon Doubles Early Termination Fee and More
On Nov 13, 2009, at 12:38 PM, mike wrote: Does anyone know the real cost of these smart phones? I realize dev costs are in the initial price, but when phones have been out for some time like the iPhone, costs are extremely low. Apple will sell you a phone without a contract so that tells you the real retail price. The Mac tear-down sites will give you an estimate of the cost to build. So much better when you are not posting distracted. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Verizon Doubles Early Termination Fee and More
Retails on these go from $499 (low end) to $699 (middle high end) on many of the ones I have seen. Of course that is not the real cost of these things. So when you pay $199 or even $99 on one of these babies you are not paying retail pricing you are getting a subsidized phone. Very often we get phones from Verizon for $49.95 or even less (with rebates etc.) these are m,middle of the line phones that are often pretty current. My wife and I both have ENV2's I bought mine in the after market (Ebay) and my wife bought hers through Verizon. She paid $49.95 ($99.95 + $50./00 rebate) and I paid just over $100.00. However both phones costs were offset by selling the old phones. I ended up paying less than $20 for mine after the sale of my old Q and my wife actually got money back when she sold hers. So it is hard to nail down a true price on a phone. Most of it is set by desirability and market. I have seen folks selling older Iphone (1+2 gen) and still asking well over $100 for them and probably getting it. Stewart At 11:38 AM 11/13/2009, you wrote: Does anyone know the real cost of these smart phones? I realize dev costs are in the initial price, but when phones have been out for some time like the iPhone, costs are extremely low. Consider also that a lot of these phones come out in europe first so many times the money has already been made back for creating the device. As far as these term fees go, anyone signing with a cell company knows what they are getting into, if they are prepared to pay this kind of fee then so be it. Verizon will either lose business or not, and we'll see their next move. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Verizon Doubles Early Termination Fee and More
Does anyone know the real cost of these smart phones? I realize dev costs are in the initial price, but when phones have been out for some time like the iPhone, costs are extremely low. Consider also that a lot of these phones come out in europe first so many times the money has already been made back for creating the device. As far as these term fees go, anyone signing with a cell company knows what they are getting into, if they are prepared to pay this kind of fee then so be it. Verizon will either lose business or not, and we'll see their next move. On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 10:03 AM, b_s-wilk wrote: > Verizon Doubles Early Termination Fee and More > > Thursday November 12, @04:27PM > > If you buy a smartphone through Verizon, be prepared for an increase in the > early termination fee. Verizon is doubling the phone-subsidy to $350. What's > more, Verizon also actively charges customers for accidental data > transmissions of as little as 0.02kb. 'They configure phones to have > multiple easily hit keystrokes to launch 'Get it now' or 'Mobile > Web'-usually a single key like an arrow key. [...] The instant you call the > function, they charge you the data fee. Even canceling these unintended > requests as fast as possible using the End key doesn't matter; ANY > data--even one kilobyte--is billed as 1MB. The damage is done.' > > > http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/09/11/12/2059238/Verizon-Doubles-Early-Termination-Fee-and-More > > Verizon horror stories in this thread: > http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1441822&cid=30080150 > http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1441822&cid=30081014 > > > > My old phone had the hiccups and accidentally sent 40+ text messages to the > first person in my phone book. After I called her to apologize, I called > T-Mobile. They said it looked like a mistake and deleted charges for those > messages. Would Verizon, AT&T or Sprint give credit for a mistake? > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Verizon Doubles Early Termination Fee and More
b_s-wilk wrote: Verizon Doubles Early Termination Fee and More Thursday November 12, @04:27PM If you buy a smartphone through Verizon, be prepared for an increase in the early termination fee. Verizon is doubling the phone-subsidy to $350. What's more, Verizon also actively charges customers for accidental data transmissions of as little as 0.02kb. 'They configure phones to have multiple easily hit keystrokes to launch 'Get it now' or 'Mobile Web'-usually a single key like an arrow key. [...] The instant you call the function, they charge you the data fee. Even canceling these unintended requests as fast as possible using the End key doesn't matter; ANY data--even one kilobyte--is billed as 1MB. The damage is done.' http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/09/11/12/2059238/Verizon-Doubles-Early-Termination-Fee-and-More Verizon horror stories in this thread: http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1441822&cid=30080150 http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1441822&cid=30081014 My old phone had the hiccups and accidentally sent 40+ text messages to the first person in my phone book. After I called her to apologize, I called T-Mobile. They said it looked like a mistake and deleted charges for those messages. Would Verizon, AT&T or Sprint give credit for a mistake? This is another reason, why, when I move out west from the east coast, I am going to drop Verizon like a hot rock and, sign up with T-Mobile. Christopher * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Verizon Doubles Early Termination Fee and More
Verizon will not sell a smartphone without a Data package. That is what led me away from Smartphones. I did not use data packages with a smartphone. I recently upgraded my phone plan to have unlimited data plan. So no extra charges. Very often this is explained (or is supposed to be) to the customer but they often do not listen. PLUS be very aware of this many of the dealers you buy from are contract/franchisers not Corporate stores. They may not be disclosing everything they need to. Stewart At 11:03 AM 11/13/2009, you wrote: Verizon Doubles Early Termination Fee and More Thursday November 12, @04:27PM If you buy a smartphone through Verizon, be prepared for an increase in the early termination fee. Verizon is doubling the phone-subsidy to $350. What's more, Verizon also actively charges customers for accidental data transmissions of as little as 0.02kb. 'They configure phones to have multiple easily hit keystrokes to launch 'Get it now' or 'Mobile Web'-usually a single key like an arrow key. [...] The instant you call the function, they charge you the data fee. Even canceling these unintended requests as fast as possible using the End key doesn't matter; ANY data--even one kilobyte--is billed as 1MB. The damage is done.' http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/09/11/12/2059238/Verizon-Doubles-Early-Termination-Fee-and-More Verizon horror stories in this thread: http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1441822&cid=30080150 http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1441822&cid=30081014 My old phone had the hiccups and accidentally sent 40+ text messages to the first person in my phone book. After I called her to apologize, I called T-Mobile. They said it looked like a mistake and deleted charges for those messages. Would Verizon, AT&T or Sprint give credit for a mistake? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Verizon Doubles Early Termination Fee and More
Verizon Doubles Early Termination Fee and More Thursday November 12, @04:27PM If you buy a smartphone through Verizon, be prepared for an increase in the early termination fee. Verizon is doubling the phone-subsidy to $350. What's more, Verizon also actively charges customers for accidental data transmissions of as little as 0.02kb. 'They configure phones to have multiple easily hit keystrokes to launch 'Get it now' or 'Mobile Web'-usually a single key like an arrow key. [...] The instant you call the function, they charge you the data fee. Even canceling these unintended requests as fast as possible using the End key doesn't matter; ANY data--even one kilobyte--is billed as 1MB. The damage is done.' http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/09/11/12/2059238/Verizon-Doubles-Early-Termination-Fee-and-More Verizon horror stories in this thread: http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1441822&cid=30080150 http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1441822&cid=30081014 My old phone had the hiccups and accidentally sent 40+ text messages to the first person in my phone book. After I called her to apologize, I called T-Mobile. They said it looked like a mistake and deleted charges for those messages. Would Verizon, AT&T or Sprint give credit for a mistake? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
