Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
JK on UB... Taking the lead on broadband http://www.berkshireeagle.com/ci_14725748?source=most_emailed Internet access is a powerful economic equalizer. Expanding high speed Internet access will create jobs and improve educational opportunities in our libraries and community colleges across the state. And I'm convinced that modern broadband access will also be a key component of our economic recovery - one that will build the foundation for our next generation of growth and innovation. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
PROBLEM is there have emerged competitors to nationalized TV,phone,net service (Belgacom) but not available for all 3 outside population areas ...still stuck with Belgacom ...wifi 3g also only in population areas or else I would gladly dispense with cable internet and use wifi ...too bad. All their internet options are volume limited. There is a big stink in Belgium over the high price of internet of all flavors. One thing though...cellular phone service is available pegged 5 bars 2g or 3g every square inch of that country ...even in the woods!! -Original Message- From: b_s-wilk [mailto:b1sun...@yahoo.es] Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 11:51 PM Subject: Re: Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband rleesimon rleesi...@gmail.com escribió: Cellular internet in Belgium is around $90/mo and only around major cities do you get 3g ...the land line internet is around $60/mo with basic TV (around 50 channels) and is DSL speed ...not that fast ...it is transited over the phone lines ...now they are saying it is bumped to 4down1up for only $2 more a month ...we'll see... I can get a prepaid SIM card for 3G data from Vodafone in Spain, 250 MB, 29 euros; 400 MB, 49 euros. Fits in phone or PC card adapter for notebooks. Good for basic surfing while traveling. For phones with WiFi, the basic 3G service is all you need. Haven't been in Belgium since before mobiles. Home broadband is cheaper in France. Cellular internet in many countries is with prepaid cards, not monthly plans, and is often cheaper that way. Home service is usually cheaper by the month, depending on the country. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:54 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: Internet access is a powerful economic equalizer. Expanding high speed Internet access will create jobs and improve educational opportunities in our libraries and community colleges across the state. And I'm convinced that modern broadband access will also be a key component of our economic recovery - one that will build the foundation for our next generation of growth and innovation. So, I am wondering how broadband access will be determined? For instance, the detailed access coverage map at ATT says that where I live is included in their service coverage area for voice phone service, but it is likely that service may not be available if indoors or in a car or in certain locations. If similar access standards are used to determine coverage under any universal broadband access mandate, much of it will be a joke. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
rleesimon escribió: PROBLEM is there have emerged competitors to nationalized TV,phone,net service (Belgacom) but not available for all 3 outside population areas ...still stuck with Belgacom ...wifi 3g also only in population areas or else I would gladly dispense with cable internet and use wifi ...too bad. All their internet options are volume limited. There is a big stink in Belgium over the high price of internet of all flavors. One thing though...cellular phone service is available pegged 5 bars 2g or 3g every square inch of that country ...even in the woods!! Belgium is three countries with people that don't get along, much like Switzerland, Spain, France, Germany. Main difference is that the hostilities make Belgians so angry that many hardly want to talk to each other. It's also difficult with multiple languages in a small country. That may be the reason why they can't build out beyond cities and why prices are so much higher there. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
It used to be that ONE person in a zip code having access to high speed net, made the whole zip code accessible. I think this was changed in the last few years as it should have been, I'm in an area said to be covered but only have access to 1.3mbit, I don't consider that broadband, I had 6mbit almost 8 years ago. On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:35 AM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:54 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: Internet access is a powerful economic equalizer. Expanding high speed Internet access will create jobs and improve educational opportunities in our libraries and community colleges across the state. And I'm convinced that modern broadband access will also be a key component of our economic recovery - one that will build the foundation for our next generation of growth and innovation. So, I am wondering how broadband access will be determined? For instance, the detailed access coverage map at ATT says that where I live is included in their service coverage area for voice phone service, but it is likely that service may not be available if indoors or in a car or in certain locations. If similar access standards are used to determine coverage under any universal broadband access mandate, much of it will be a joke. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 11:15 PM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: IMAGINE that for $33 a month you could buy Internet service twice as fast as what you get from Verizon or Comcast, bundled with digital high-definition television, unlimited long distance and international calling to 70 countries and wireless Internet connectivity for your laptop or smartphone throughout much of the country. That’s what you can buy in France, and similar speeds and prices are available in other countries with competitive markets. But not in the United States. Prices here are three to five times that much for the fastest speeds — the highest prices among advanced economies. Well, what would you expect to pay in the nation that describes and prides itself as being the wealthiest in the world and the best at doing everything? How much would an addict pay to get that hit? Whatever amount that is, that is what they'll be made to pay. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
Cellular internet in Belgium is around $90/mo and only around major cities do you get 3g ...the land line internet is around $60/mo with basic TV (around 50 channels) and is DSL speed ...not that fast ...it is transited over the phone lines ...now they are saying it is bumped to 4down1up for only $2 more a month ...we'll see... -Original Message- From: phartz...@gmail.com [mailto:phartz...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 8:36 AM Subject: Re: Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 11:15 PM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: IMAGINE that for $33 a month you could buy Internet service twice as fast as what you get from Verizon or Comcast, bundled with digital high-definition television, unlimited long distance and international calling to 70 countries and wireless Internet connectivity for your laptop or smartphone throughout much of the country. That's what you can buy in France, and similar speeds and prices are available in other countries with competitive markets. But not in the United States. Prices here are three to five times that much for the fastest speeds - the highest prices among advanced economies. Well, what would you expect to pay in the nation that describes and prides itself as being the wealthiest in the world and the best at doing everything? How much would an addict pay to get that hit? Whatever amount that is, that is what they'll be made to pay. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
At 03:36 PM 3/15/2010, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Anyone want to talk about New Orleans and the aftermath of Katrina. (Problems essentially caused by fouled up Corps of Engineers projects.) And substantially all of those foul-ups were caused by lack of Congressional appropriations to fund the maintenance and improvement of the levees. The congresscritters wanted to spend the funds elsewhere, where they would engender better political payback. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
rleesimon rleesi...@gmail.com escribió: Cellular internet in Belgium is around $90/mo and only around major cities do you get 3g ...the land line internet is around $60/mo with basic TV (around 50 channels) and is DSL speed ...not that fast ...it is transited over the phone lines ...now they are saying it is bumped to 4down1up for only $2 more a month ...we'll see... I can get a prepaid SIM card for 3G data from Vodafone in Spain, 250 MB, 29 euros; 400 MB, 49 euros. Fits in phone or PC card adapter for notebooks. Good for basic surfing while traveling. For phones with WiFi, the basic 3G service is all you need. Haven't been in Belgium since before mobiles. Home broadband is cheaper in France. Cellular internet in many countries is with prepaid cards, not monthly plans, and is often cheaper that way. Home service is usually cheaper by the month, depending on the country. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
My in-laws in Canada do the same thing. Prepaid. Stewart At 10:50 PM 3/21/2010, you wrote: I can get a prepaid SIM card for 3G data from Vodafone in Spain, 250 MB, 29 euros; 400 MB, 49 euros. Fits in phone or PC card adapter for notebooks. Good for basic surfing while traveling. For phones with WiFi, the basic 3G service is all you need. Haven't been in Belgium since before mobiles. Home broadband is cheaper in France. Cellular internet in many countries is with prepaid cards, not monthly plans, and is often cheaper that way. Home service is usually cheaper by the month, depending on the country. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
NYT explains a lot about what is wrong with broadband in the US... Ending the Internet’s Trench Warfare http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/21/opinion/21Benkler.html IMAGINE that for $33 a month you could buy Internet service twice as fast as what you get from Verizon or Comcast, bundled with digital high-definition television, unlimited long distance and international calling to 70 countries and wireless Internet connectivity for your laptop or smartphone throughout much of the country. That’s what you can buy in France, and similar speeds and prices are available in other countries with competitive markets. But not in the United States. Prices here are three to five times that much for the fastest speeds — the highest prices among advanced economies. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On Mar 16, 2010, at 6:47 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: My wife and I had a very volatile discussion last night as she thinks it is unfair that I serve a group that does not see my worth or pay me accordingly and expect me to do all the work. Wives are generally very good at telling the emperor he's having a wardrobe malfunction. When we started calling them jobs instead of vocation we lost the concept of service. Are these not both extremes? Wall Street banker vs fall guy. A while back I was doing some IT work for an Episcopalian congregation. I noticed that the higher ups were very much aware that the young, energetic ministers would eventually get a better offer. I think that was a good thing. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
Vocation is a concept of calling, not indentured servitude. Problem is in this day and age those vacancies are fewer and farther between, and do not offer a substantial increase. We have over 6000 units (congregations) of various sizes. (Episcopal church is similar) At present we have only just over 300 calling (seeking) vacancies. We are going to fill approximately half those vacancies with a new crop of ministers this spring. What that means is, no movement at all or limited. We also are increasing the number of permanent vacancies each week. These are being filled with part-time or semi retired ministers. (Lots of guys need the added income in retirement to pay for the medical insurance.) So that is why we had such a volatile conversation. I have no where to go, so I must make this situation work! That is part of what Vocation is about. Working where you are and doing the best possible job you can. No matter what. Stewart (Not looking for sympathy, just stating the way it is.) At 01:17 PM 3/17/2010, you wrote: Are these not both extremes? Wall Street banker vs fall guy. A while back I was doing some IT work for an Episcopalian congregation. I noticed that the higher ups were very much aware that the young, energetic ministers would eventually get a better offer. I think that was a good thing. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On Mar 17, 2010, at 2:44 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: So that is why we had such a volatile conversation. I have no where to go, so I must make this situation work! That is part of what Vocation is about. Working where you are and doing the best possible job you can. No matter what. The market has spoken. We are no longer in a time when you could scare the beejeebers out of the congregation to loosen their purses. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On Mar 16, 2010, at 7:33 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Everyone likes to interpret data to their advantage. This list has been full of it over the years. No. These days we have people who are shamelessly willing to invent their own reality. See today's NYT... The New Rove-Cheney Assault on Reality http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/14/opinion/14rich.html * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On Mar 16, 2010, at 6:41 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Totally unfair criticism. No more unfair than what you wrote about government. This morning as I switched on NPR I was assaulted by an idiot screaming Medicare is bankrupt, everything the government does is bankrupt. Maybe the government should be building more insane asylums? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
The Government *is* an insane asylum. On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 1:00 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: Maybe the government should be building more insane asylums? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
Technically it is. I read a story this week, that stated that SS would start paying out more than it brought in. That is the definition of bankruptcy. As far as I know Medicare has been paying out more than it brings in every year. However since it is a government benefit they pay it all out of current funds. The caller was right but wrong at the same time. The bills will still get paid. Stewart At 03:00 PM 3/17/2010, you wrote: No more unfair than what you wrote about government. This morning as I switched on NPR I was assaulted by an idiot screaming Medicare is bankrupt, everything the government does is bankrupt. Maybe the government should be building more insane asylums? Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
Over the years our government has gone to even more believing it's their money and not our money, one congressman or senator recently talked about how they (congress) were giving us more rights (he was talking about healthcare)...no one even bothered to tell him we aren't given our rights by him or any other government official. On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net wrote: Technically it is. I read a story this week, that stated that SS would start paying out more than it brought in. That is the definition of bankruptcy. As far as I know Medicare has been paying out more than it brings in every year. However since it is a government benefit they pay it all out of current funds. The caller was right but wrong at the same time. The bills will still get paid. Stewart At 03:00 PM 3/17/2010, you wrote: No more unfair than what you wrote about government. This morning as I switched on NPR I was assaulted by an idiot screaming Medicare is bankrupt, everything the government does is bankrupt. Maybe the government should be building more insane asylums? Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On Mar 17, 2010, at 5:27 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Technically it is. I read a story this week, that stated that SS would start paying out more than it brought in. That is the definition of bankruptcy. It's that time travel thing again. They are not, but they will, therefore they are. Just not in my version of reality. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
Glad to hear that Tom, problem is not many people live in your version of reality. Stewart At 05:05 PM 3/17/2010, you wrote: It's that time travel thing again. They are not, but they will, therefore they are. Just not in my version of reality. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_social_security_ious I know Tom will come up with some Obama is God or something about right wing nuts or neomicrosofticon plot...but this is from the AP. Indeed...paying more out than they bring in. On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:05 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Mar 17, 2010, at 5:27 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Technically it is. I read a story this week, that stated that SS would start paying out more than it brought in. That is the definition of bankruptcy. It's that time travel thing again. They are not, but they will, therefore they are. Just not in my version of reality. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
You same story I read. Medicare was never meant to be like SS where you have some supposed account set up and it pays out so much. It was always funded out of current expenses. Stewart At 05:42 PM 3/17/2010, you wrote: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_social_security_ious I know Tom will come up with some Obama is God or something about right wing nuts or neomicrosofticon plot...but this is from the AP. Indeed...paying more out than they bring in. On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:05 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Mar 17, 2010, at 5:27 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Technically it is. I read a story this week, that stated that SS would start paying out more than it brought in. That is the definition of bankruptcy. It's that time travel thing again. They are not, but they will, therefore they are. Just not in my version of reality. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
In NJ, the build-out of FIOS must by regulation be done on a central office (CO) by central office basis - if they want to serve the customers in a particular area, they must offer to serve ALL the customers in that serving central office. i.e. if you are in the 998-321 office area, and Verizon wants to provide FIOS in that area, then they have to arrange to serve ALL the customers that have 998-321- telephone numbers. So, even if you can spit on the CO from your house, if your house isn't served by that central office, they don't have to provide FIOS. Obviously, the company is going to look at the potential income from serving that CO before committing capital dollars to implementing the FIOS scheme. It may be different in other states. I should also point out that the cost of maintaining a copper wire infrastructure is very, very high, while the cost of implementing and maintaining fiber is coming down very quickly. So it is only a matter of time before the economics of the situation will force all telco's to replace their aging copper with fiber, at least on the street poles. Whether they decide to invest in FIOS (of whatever variety) is another matter. Mike Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Glad to hear that Tom, problem is not many people live in your version of reality. Stewart At 05:05 PM 3/17/2010, you wrote: It's that time travel thing again. They are not, but they will, therefore they are. Just not in my version of reality. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:15 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Glad to hear that Tom, problem is not many people live in your version of reality. Following your logic, since we will all be dead, we are dead. So we might as well step off the cliff now. Your thought process is just not a way to produce reliable results. You might as well run your life by following the advice in an astrology column. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:42 PM, mike wrote: I know Tom will come up with some Obama is God or something about right wing nuts or neomicrosofticon plot...but this is from the AP. Indeed...paying more out than they bring in. This assertion, while consistent with your totally nutty logic, isn't going to get you anywhere useful. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
Notify the booby hatch in the area in which the author lives...I'm sure they will pick the guy up for spreading truths. On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:54 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:42 PM, mike wrote: I know Tom will come up with some Obama is God or something about right wing nuts or neomicrosofticon plot...but this is from the AP. Indeed...paying more out than they bring in. This assertion, while consistent with your totally nutty logic, isn't going to get you anywhere useful. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
I don't give advice on how to live. I leave that for Dear Abby. Ever wonder why they put astrology stuff on the same page or next to the comics? One reality we cannot escape today we live tomorrow we shall die. We just don't know when tomorrow will come. Stewart At 05:53 PM 3/17/2010, you wrote: Following your logic, since we will all be dead, we are dead. So we might as well step off the cliff now. Your thought process is just not a way to produce reliable results. You might as well run your life by following the advice in an astrology column. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
Comics are REAL TOO?? On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net wrote: Ever wonder why they put astrology stuff on the same page or next to the comics? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
Don't you just love the Wizard of Id? Stewart At 06:21 PM 3/17/2010, you wrote: Comics are REAL TOO?? On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net wrote: Ever wonder why they put astrology stuff on the same page or next to the comics? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:27 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net wrote: As far as I know Medicare has been paying out more than it brings in every year. Hey, wouldn't those Death Panels take care of that problem? Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
Heyyou are right! Waitaminute here! We'll all be better off with Emanuel's complete lives system anyhoo. On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:37 PM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote: On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:27 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net wrote: As far as I know Medicare has been paying out more than it brings in every year. Hey, wouldn't those Death Panels take care of that problem? Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote: If memory and my history books are correct this has been a problem for eons. Perhaps this is a problem for us, but not for them. After all, we are here to serve them, are we not, or did your history book try to convince you that it is really the other way around? Let's read a history book by historian Howard Zinn to see who really serves who. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On Mar 15, 2010, at 8:53 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Tom most governmental positions that are not controlled by Civil Service law are filled with pols frat boys and sorority sisters. That happens when traitors and terrorists who hate government get elected. I have been through several such cycles while living here in the Capitol. When people get elected who believe that government can make an important difference the results are quite different. I have seen it first hand. You are just feeding us blind ideology in the service of evil. Does not sound like they have their act together that much better than the Bush administration. But that is not untypical for government. Totally bogus criticism. What happened in Haiti was on a totally different scale than what happened in New Orleans. Nobody ever imagined destruction on this scale. Aid could not be delivered overland. It was a foreign country, the US had to work through their government. It was an international effort, the US was one of many participants. Why do preachers always take the side of the rich overlords? Why do they always preach about turning the other cheek and tell the oppressed that their lot in life is God's will? Why do they always give their blessings to unjust wars, traitors, and terrorists? Why are they never on the side of justice? Why do they tell Jesus to leave the room? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On Mar 15, 2010, at 8:54 PM, mike wrote: Those environmental policies of leaving nice highly flammable dead wood and brush year after year really helped us get some good fires in. You comment shows that you do not understand the issue. One more thing you know little about. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
At 12:11 PM 3/16/2010, you wrote: That happens when traitors and terrorists who hate government get elected. I have been through several such cycles while living here in the Capitol. When people get elected who believe that government can make an important difference the results are quite different. I have seen it first hand. You are just feeding us blind ideology in the service of evil. No it happens whenever you get people who rule on ideology instead of reality. Totally bogus criticism. What happened in Haiti was on a totally different scale than what happened in New Orleans. Nobody ever imagined destruction on this scale. Aid could not be delivered overland. It was a foreign country, the US had to work through their government. It was an international effort, the US was one of many participants. Not bogus criticism. Leveled by some liberals grading the response. They finally got it right, but it had to go through layers and bureaucrats before it got handled. Why do preachers always take the side of the rich overlords? Why do they always preach about turning the other cheek and tell the oppressed that their lot in life is God's will? Why do they always give their blessings to unjust wars, traitors, and terrorists? Why are they never on the side of justice? Why do they tell Jesus to leave the room? Totally unfair criticism. I criticize both sides, as it is a flawed human system. All human systems will be flawed and will vacillate between one extreme and another. Your definition of a traitor does not a traitor make. Terrorists are terrorists they are on both sides, and are just as bad. And quite honestly I would lump you in on rich overlords! :-) Jesus is quite solidly in the room. Never left. just ignored because his message is not always welcome or wanted because it would trump everything. Stewart * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
Steve if I read Zinn correctly he would say all governmental services are supposed to be that, for service. The problem is, once any thing becomes institutionalized it takes on a life of its own, and you soon must serve the institution, not the client. It is indeed sad. When you try to reorganize to start serving the client once more, many protest as you are changing a sacred system. My wife and I had a very volatile discussion last night as she thinks it is unfair that I serve a group that does not see my worth or pay me accordingly and expect me to do all the work. I told her that is how it is supposed to be, and that is what I signed on for. I did not become a minister to adjust my work level on a sliding scale according to what I get paid. They get it all and I do what they ask, as I am their servant. When we started calling them jobs instead of vocation we lost the concept of service. Stewart At 06:49 AM 3/16/2010, you wrote: If memory and my history books are correct this has been a problem for eons. Perhaps this is a problem for us, but not for them. After all, we are here to serve them, are we not, or did your history book try to convince you that it is really the other way around? Let's read a history book by historian Howard Zinn to see who really serves who. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
Howard Zinn also favored using history as a tool for directing social values even at the expense of truth. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote: Steve if I read Zinn correctly he would say all governmental services are supposed to be that, for service. The problem is, once any thing becomes institutionalized it takes on a life of its own, and you soon must serve the institution, not the client. It is indeed sad. When you try to reorganize to start serving the client once more, many protest as you are changing a sacred system. My wife and I had a very volatile discussion last night as she thinks it is unfair that I serve a group that does not see my worth or pay me accordingly and expect me to do all the work. I told her that is how it is supposed to be, and that is what I signed on for. I did not become a minister to adjust my work level on a sliding scale according to what I get paid. They get it all and I do what they ask, as I am their servant. When we started calling them jobs instead of vocation we lost the concept of service. Stewart At 06:49 AM 3/16/2010, you wrote: If memory and my history books are correct this has been a problem for eons. Perhaps this is a problem for us, but not for them. After all, we are here to serve them, are we not, or did your history book try to convince you that it is really the other way around? Let's read a history book by historian Howard Zinn to see who really serves who. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
He would not have been the first nor only one. It is sad, but with the flaw of human nature our selfish nature usually gets in the way. Stewart At 06:04 PM 3/16/2010, you wrote: Howard Zinn also favored using history as a tool for directing social values even at the expense of truth. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
Correct...I suppose we should admire him for his honesty in telling everyone he'll lie to get his ends. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net wrote: He would not have been the first nor only one. It is sad, but with the flaw of human nature our selfish nature usually gets in the way. Stewart At 06:04 PM 3/16/2010, you wrote: Howard Zinn also favored using history as a tool for directing social values even at the expense of truth. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
Everyone likes to interpret data to their advantage. This list has been full of it over the years. Data is simply data. Remember the old saying statistics lie? Well they do not really lie they just say what your research wanted it to say. I live in Alabama (well we make the news a lot lately) and there is a Governors race plus a few other choice races in the state this year. I occasionally get phone calls asking me to be part of a poll. (I am not sure how I got on the list, but I am.) I can tell who has sponsored the poll or what the poll is looking for in the way of data real fast. Just by the way the questions are asked, and how the answers are phrased or limited. If it is not a live person, I end up hanging up often or screwing with the poll as they will not let me give a true answer. If it is a live person, I politely insist that my answer is neither., or non of the above very often when my choice is limited to yes or no, or a or b. Data does not lie, it is the way it is obtained or used that lies. Stewart At 06:18 PM 3/16/2010, you wrote: Correct...I suppose we should admire him for his honesty in telling everyone he'll lie to get his ends. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net wrote: He would not have been the first nor only one. It is sad, but with the flaw of human nature our selfish nature usually gets in the way. Stewart Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
Considering how frequently unintended consequences of regulation (when we have yet to see any true problems with the current internet system) wreak havoc on things I don't see the rush to go into giving FCC the power over the internet. It is non-centralized at the core, and we should keep it that way. On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 10:33 PM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: Who Hates the National Broadband Plan? http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2361361,00.asp This will result in government takeover of the industry. It won't happen overnight, but incrementally. They already have the name for it: National Broadband, like National Health Care. They'll build infrastructure, increase access, give free access to the underprivileged, and work with the big providers to squeeze out competition (corporate fascism). * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:38 AM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: Considering how frequently unintended consequences of regulation (when we have yet to see any true problems with the current internet system) wreak havoc on things I don't see the rush to go into giving FCC the power over the internet. It is non-centralized at the core, and we should keep it that way. Who says that they cannot see any TRUE(emphasis mine) problems with the current internet system? Who is this they? Are they saying that they can see some problems, just not any TRUE ones, or are they saying that they cannot see any problems at all? Does that means that all the other problems that some others may see are false, lies if you will, and are not really problems at all? What other wide ranging and far flung system exists anywhere in the world that is devoid of problems? Who is that you quote who perceives the internet as such a system, apparently devoid of problems? Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On 03/15/2010 02:38 AM, mike wrote: Considering how frequently unintended consequences of regulation (when we have yet to see any true problems with the current internet system) wreak havoc on things I don't see the rush to go into giving FCC the power over the internet. It is non-centralized at the core, and we should keep it that way. There are obvious problems with the present setup. Lots of folks for example lack access to the internet at home in any meaningful fashion. I have acquaintances for example who have phone lines that can barely support voice communications and can't support for example dial-up access or even faxing. The same areas also lack any cell or 3g/4g coverage too. The only option for internet access is satellite coverage. I also have to laugh about how good US internet provisions are supposed to be, when I note how much more for less money that folks in Europe and places like S.Korea and Japan get. The US disdain for government provided services has a cost in the real world. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
This implies there is no cost of government provided services in the real world. On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Art Clemons artclem...@aol.com wrote: The US disdain for government provided services has a cost in the real world. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Art Clemons artclem...@aol.com wrote: The US disdain for government provided services has a cost in the real world. I have been under the belief that there have been proposals put forth providing for federal subsidies to be used to help pay for costs associated with increasing broadband internet penetration into currently unserved or under served areas of the country. Federal subsidies are used for all sorts of things without claims beng made that it is all part of a plan for the federal government to take over everything. Why are such claims being brought forth in this instance? I am sure that folks who routinely have access to broadband are the only ones making such arguments. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
The US disdain for government provided services has a cost in the real world. This implies there is no cost of government provided services in the real world. No, it doesn't. It states that there's a cost, typically unacknowledged, of NOT having the services. There's no implication that the services are, or would be, free of cost. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On Mar 15, 2010, at 1:16 PM, mike wrote: This implies there is no cost of government provided services in the real world. Not by a long shot. But this is yet another great example of how your faulty logic leads to absurd conclusions. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On Mar 15, 2010, at 12:20 PM, Art Clemons wrote: The US disdain for government provided services has a cost in the real world. I suspect these woefully ignorant wing nuts have no idea who paid for the development of the Internet. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
I didn't mean cost as in some monthly bill, i meant in the larger scheme. On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Chris Dunford seed...@gmail.com wrote: The US disdain for government provided services has a cost in the real world. This implies there is no cost of government provided services in the real world. No, it doesn't. It states that there's a cost, typically unacknowledged, of NOT having the services. There's no implication that the services are, or would be, free of cost. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On Mar 15, 2010, at 1:34 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: I have been under the belief that there have been proposals put forth providing for federal subsidies to be used to help pay for costs associated with increasing broadband internet penetration into currently unserved or under served areas of the country. Federal subsidies are used for all sorts of things without claims beng made that it is all part of a plan for the federal government to take over everything. Why are such claims being brought forth in this instance? For the same ideological reasons they object to anything that we the people do collectively. I suppose they think that anything done to give a fellow human a hand up is lessening their personal advantage. Why block the extension of unemployment benefits? Why block consumer protection? Why block healthcare? Always the same reasons are given. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
I didn't mean cost as in some monthly bill, i meant in the larger scheme. I didn't mean that either, and it still didn't imply what you said... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On Mar 15, 2010, at 2:22 PM, mike wrote: I didn't mean cost as in some monthly bill, i meant in the larger scheme. You mean like being in the state of grace is a bad thing. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
Considering how frequently unintended consequences of regulation (when we have yet to see any true problems with the current internet system) wreak havoc on things I don't see the rush to go into giving FCC the power over the internet. It is non-centralized at the core, and we should keep it that way. There are obvious problems with the present setup. Lots of folks for example lack access to the internet at home in any meaningful fashion... The US disdain for government provided services has a cost in the real world. The stupidest and one of the most dangerous comments by any recent president was by Ronnie Raygun when he said, The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' It was a culmination of the corporate propaganda machine that wanted people to distrust/hate 'gummint', thus increasing corporate power while limiting citizen power. The wingnuts who want gummint out of the Internet forget that the Internet was an entirely government funded project, and remains partially funded through federal funds. The Internet is mostly non-centralized, however ISP's gateways are not. There are now a relatively small number of large corporations controlling the gateways, trying to tell who is allowed to have service, and what service you're allowed to have. This opposition to universal broadband is simply bullsh*t. This propaganda is supported by the same nuts who are yelling Get the government out of my Medicare! The government isn't the problem, except when it's run by corporations and wingnuts, as it has been mostly since Reagan was [s]elected. Better thank Al Gore for sponsoring the bills that gave government funding to expand [ARPANET] the Internet. Thank Eisenhower for the warnings--too bad not enough Americans listened or understood. What about the completely intended consequences of deregulating financial markets that let to crashing the economy? Regulation is good. How about the states that regulate the rates that insurance companies are allowed to charge customers? Regulation is good. How about regulations that reduce pollution? Regulation is good. How about speed limits? Good, except for speed traps. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
Sorry, some of us actually like the Contsitution. On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:06 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: The stupidest and one of the most dangerous comments by any recent president was by Ronnie Raygun when he said, The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' It was a culmination of the corporate propaganda machine that wanted people to distrust/hate 'gummint', thus increasing corporate power while limiting citizen power. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
The problem is sometimes it is true. Anyone want to talk about New Orleans and the aftermath of Katrina. (Problems essentially caused by fouled up Corps of Engineers projects.) Now I am not saying that they always mess up, but when they do it tends to be spectacular. Stewart At 02:06 PM 3/15/2010, you wrote: The stupidest and one of the most dangerous comments by any recent president was by Ronnie Raygun when he said, The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' It was a culmination of the corporate propaganda machine that wanted people to distrust/hate 'gummint', thus increasing corporate power while limiting citizen power. The wingnuts who want gummint out of the Internet forget that the Internet was an entirely government funded project, and remains partially funded through federal funds. The Internet is mostly non-centralized, however ISP's gateways are not. There are now a relatively small number of large corporations controlling the gateways, trying to tell who is allowed to have service, and what service you're allowed to have. This opposition to universal broadband is simply bullsh*t. This propaganda is supported by the same nuts who are yelling Get the government out of my Medicare! The government isn't the problem, except when it's run by corporations and wingnuts, as it has been mostly since Reagan was [s]elected. Better thank Al Gore for sponsoring the bills that gave government funding to expand [ARPANET] the Internet. Thank Eisenhower for the warnings--too bad not enough Americans listened or understood. What about the completely intended consequences of deregulating financial markets that let to crashing the economy? Regulation is good. How about the states that regulate the rates that insurance companies are allowed to charge customers? Regulation is good. How about regulations that reduce pollution? Regulation is good. How about speed limits? Good, except for speed traps. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
This implies there is no cost of government provided services in the real world. No. That's a big DUH! Of course there are costs to government services, but consider this. How much of your income is disposable income? In countries with free democratic socialist governments like Sweden or Germany, taxes may by 40-50% of their income. However that means that they have fully paid health insurance, long vacations, child care, sick leave, pensions, with 50-60% of their income remaining as disposable income. They also have almost universal inexpensive broadband in most of western Europe. In the UK, you get FREE broadband as part of your mobile phone contract! Does ATT or Verizon do this? For under $50/mo including 600 min? That's more services than we have in the United States--for less. Here you gets what you pay for. That means that the anti-gummint sentiment means much lower taxes, with much higher costs for broadband, health insurance, child care, etc., etc. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On 03/15/2010 01:16 PM, mike wrote: This implies there is no cost of government provided services in the real world. No, I stated that there is a cost to disdaining government being involved in the provision of services. You're trying to produce a binary situation where there isn't one. Not having the fastest or most reliable internet access has a cost, just as having no means to provide access to all has a cost. People don't deny that not having government provide or pay for let's say most roads would be costly to the US even though presently we can't pay easily for upkeep and maintaining the roads we now have, much less build needed new roads. That doesn't mean that there would not be a real cost with a road structure that deteriorated more. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On Mar 15, 2010, at 3:20 PM, mike wrote: Sorry, some of us actually like the Contsitution. Expressing a preference over Charmin? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
I never said I could spell On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:53 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Mar 15, 2010, at 3:20 PM, mike wrote: Sorry, some of us actually like the Contsitution. Expressing a preference over Charmin? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
The problem is sometimes it is true. Careful, now Mike is going to say that this implies that it's never not true. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
Don't misquote the jab. I never said never.. On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:17 PM, Chris Dunford seed...@gmail.com wrote: The problem is sometimes it is true. Careful, now Mike is going to say that this implies that it's never not true. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
Wing nuts want to provide broad band via those stinkin' ugly wires around all over the place. Finally, all that hardware gets jammed up with every neighbor downloadin' his daily dose of porn. The way to get broadband out is multivalent approaches where some get wires, some get over the electric grid, some get wireless from hotspots on the telephone poles, some get cellular, some get satellite! ...it should be a concerted effort based on evaluation of what is the most effective way and what the burden is to the existing infrastructure as a factor of cost of expanding that bandwidth as compared with a new channel. But, of course, this would be the government deciding this so graft and no-bid contracts and under the table stuff would be the biggest player; isn't it always?? -Original Message- From: tjpa [mailto:t...@tjpa.com] Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 5:49 PM Subject: Re: Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband On Mar 15, 2010, at 3:36 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Anyone want to talk about New Orleans and the aftermath of Katrina. (Problems essentially caused by fouled up Corps of Engineers projects.) If the wingnut propaganda were true, this would not have happened. The government would have soaked us for lots of dough to build huge bulwarks against the elements -- just like they built in Holland. Instead the bulwarks were under funded and under engineered, following the don't tax me mantra of the wingnuts. And the poor response afterwards was run by wingnuts too. Remember You are doing a fine job Brownie.? In the years prior FEMA had been gutted. The professionals had been pushed out and replaced by pols and frat brothers. This was a wingnut operation through and through. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
Don't blame it all on wingnuts. I lived in LA for years. NO was a corrupt cesspool and everything was under funded but over paid, due to graft and pay offs. Nothing could get done without the right connections. Plus the response of both the Governor and the Mayor were spectacularly stupid. There is a reason Blanco did not run for reelection. Stewart At 04:49 PM 3/15/2010, you wrote: If the wingnut propaganda were true, this would not have happened. The government would have soaked us for lots of dough to build huge bulwarks against the elements -- just like they built in Holland. Instead the bulwarks were under funded and under engineered, following the don't tax me mantra of the wingnuts. And the poor response afterwards was run by wingnuts too. Remember You are doing a fine job Brownie.? In the years prior FEMA had been gutted. The professionals had been pushed out and replaced by pols and frat brothers. This was a wingnut operation through and through. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On Mar 15, 2010, at 6:36 PM, rleesimon wrote: Wing nuts want to provide broad band via those stinkin' ugly wires around all over the place. Finally, all that hardware gets jammed up with every neighbor downloadin' his daily dose of porn. The way to get broadband out is multivalent approaches where some get wires, some get over the electric grid, some get wireless from hotspots on the telephone poles, some get cellular, some get satellite! ...it should be a concerted effort based on evaluation of what is the most effective way and what the burden is to the existing infrastructure as a factor of cost of expanding that bandwidth as compared with a new channel. But, of course, this would be the government deciding this so graft and no-bid contracts and under the table stuff would be the biggest player; isn't it always?? No, it isn't always. When government agencies get packed with pols and frat boys you don't have the experience and intelligence necessary to do a good job. I have watched it happen from close range. I worked for 12 years on environmental policy. Yes, I saw some very poorly drafted regulations. But I also watched the regulations get revised year after year getting better and better. Eventually they were getting almost everything right. Then the administration changed and wingnuts took over again. The hunted down the smart people, transferred them, demoted them, gave them busy work, etc. Key positions got filled by pols and frat boys who deliberately destroyed the hard work that had been done. It was very sad. I really do mean it when I call these wingnuts traitors and terrorists. I see the current administration being unusually adept at putting good people in key positions. In particular I see them getting things right with IT and communications technology. I don't think your expectation of poor performance is warranted. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
Tom most governmental positions that are not controlled by Civil Service law are filled with pols frat boys and sorority sisters. That is how government works, unfortunately. I cant remember how many positions that are filled when a new administration comes in, but it is huge. I just read an article on the governments response to Haiti and it was mildly critical on how it all operated. It took just over 2 weeks for the government to declare a medical emergency (Cant remember correct term) for the evacuation of the injured from Haiti, and it only did so when pressed by Florida when it began dumping all the patients on Florida's hospitals. Does not sound like they have their act together that much better than the Bush administration. But that is not untypical for government. In a parliamentary system all minsters plus the prime minister are part of the system that makes laws and votes on them. plus there are weekly question periods. I loved to listen to the Canadian parliaments question session, quite interesting. What I am getting at is that they tend to be a little more responsive to stuff as they are constantly in the thick of it, and not one step removed. (and another secret, most of the good work is done behind the scenes by regular civil service types, permanent employees not appointees.) Stewart At 07:38 PM 3/15/2010, you wrote: No, it isn't always. When government agencies get packed with pols and frat boys you don't have the experience and intelligence necessary to do a good job. I have watched it happen from close range. I worked for 12 years on environmental policy. Yes, I saw some very poorly drafted regulations. But I also watched the regulations get revised year after year getting better and better. Eventually they were getting almost everything right. Then the administration changed and wingnuts took over again. The hunted down the smart people, transferred them, demoted them, gave them busy work, etc. Key positions got filled by pols and frat boys who deliberately destroyed the hard work that had been done. It was very sad. I really do mean it when I call these wingnuts traitors and terrorists. I see the current administration being unusually adept at putting good people in key positions. In particular I see them getting things right with IT and communications technology. I don't think your expectation of poor performance is warranted. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
And Obama promoted the key wingnuts from Bush for the economy..that worked well! And how about them wildfires? Those environmental policies of leaving nice highly flammable dead wood and brush year after year really helped us get some good fires in. On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 5:38 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Mar 15, 2010, at 6:36 PM, rleesimon wrote: Wing nuts want to provide broad band via those stinkin' ugly wires around all over the place. Finally, all that hardware gets jammed up with every neighbor downloadin' his daily dose of porn. The way to get broadband out is multivalent approaches where some get wires, some get over the electric grid, some get wireless from hotspots on the telephone poles, some get cellular, some get satellite! ...it should be a concerted effort based on evaluation of what is the most effective way and what the burden is to the existing infrastructure as a factor of cost of expanding that bandwidth as compared with a new channel. But, of course, this would be the government deciding this so graft and no-bid contracts and under the table stuff would be the biggest player; isn't it always?? No, it isn't always. When government agencies get packed with pols and frat boys you don't have the experience and intelligence necessary to do a good job. I have watched it happen from close range. I worked for 12 years on environmental policy. Yes, I saw some very poorly drafted regulations. But I also watched the regulations get revised year after year getting better and better. Eventually they were getting almost everything right. Then the administration changed and wingnuts took over again. The hunted down the smart people, transferred them, demoted them, gave them busy work, etc. Key positions got filled by pols and frat boys who deliberately destroyed the hard work that had been done. It was very sad. I really do mean it when I call these wingnuts traitors and terrorists. I see the current administration being unusually adept at putting good people in key positions. In particular I see them getting things right with IT and communications technology. I don't think your expectation of poor performance is warranted. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 8:54 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: And Obama promoted the key wingnuts from Bush for the economy..that worked well! I think we all know who pretty much runs the show. The individual players may change, but the entities remain the same. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wing Nuts Oppose Better Broadband
If memory and my history books are correct this has been a problem for eons. How do you think Pontius Pilate got his appointment as Procurator in Palestine? It was a political appointment. He certainly had some problems. (Not just from a religious standpoint.) To the victor goes the spoils. Stewart At 08:49 PM 3/15/2010, you wrote: I think we all know who pretty much runs the show. The individual players may change, but the entities remain the same. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
