Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
--- Reinout van Schouwen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Thierry, On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Thierry Vignaud wrote: making it usuable in 640x480 would mean dropping features in tools. Or redesigning them to be usable in 640x480. I'm not saying this is easy, but I am saying it is necessary. as for tools written interactive, they can be run in text mode, which is the solution for too low resolution boxes. I'm sorry, but from an unexperienced user point of view, this is no solution, but a reason to throw that stupid difficult Linux thing aside. You're being totally unreasonable. If someone's got a monitor so crappy that they can't even run at 800x600, they use a different frontend to the draktools. That's part of the reason different frontends exist! The point isn't that every frontend is supported on every single machine, the point is that all machines are covered by at least one frontend, so nobody can bitch about their machine not being supported. Are you gonna whine and complain to us when you find Gnome and Evolution unusable on a P133 with 16MB RAM??? I sure hope not. Doesn't mean Mandrake doesn't support the machine, but you have to use tools more fit to it (IceWM and mutt maybe). __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
[Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
https://qa.mandrakesoft.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1048 [EMAIL PROTECTED] changed: What|Removed |Added Status|RESOLVED|UNCONFIRMED Resolution|INVALID | --- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2003-01-28 13:53 --- Reinout - MCC is just exactly NOT useable in 800x600 under gnome. Gnome eliminates 50 pixels top and bottom, making it impossible to click on the buttons on drakconnect, for example. KDE also eliminates 50 pixels unless you slide the toolbar away. --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. --- Reminder: --- assigned_to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] description: Our computers run with 800x600 screens. Some of our computers are 640x480 - and all setup screens should work at that resolution! Under gnome, I cannot get to the buttons on a number of the panels, as they are laid out too big. The big blue stripe should be removed - it hogs all the screen space. A good example is the network startup screen.
[Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
https://qa.mandrakesoft.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1048 [EMAIL PROTECTED] changed: What|Removed |Added Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED Resolution||FIXED Version|9.1-0.9mdk |9.1-0.7mdk --- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2003-01-28 14:03 --- instead of reopening fixed bug, test latest version. if you would have do, you would have saw that mcc is currently 720x523 pixels without wm decoration, 722*555 with windowmaker decoration --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. --- Reminder: --- assigned_to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] description: Our computers run with 800x600 screens. Some of our computers are 640x480 - and all setup screens should work at that resolution! Under gnome, I cannot get to the buttons on a number of the panels, as they are laid out too big. The big blue stripe should be removed - it hogs all the screen space. A good example is the network startup screen.
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
On Tue, 2003-01-28 at 12:52, David Walser wrote: I'm sorry, but from an unexperienced user point of view, this is no solution, but a reason to throw that stupid difficult Linux thing aside. You're being totally unreasonable. If someone's got a monitor so crappy that they can't even run at 800x600, they use a different frontend to the draktools. That's part of the reason different frontends exist! The point isn't that every frontend is supported on every single machine, the point is that all machines are covered by at least one frontend, so nobody can bitch about their machine not being supported. *sigh* Are you just wilfully ignoring the actual experience that's been posted to this list? For the fourth time, I use a laptop. It's perfectly powerful enough to run KDE or GNOME (I use GNOME). Because it's a cunning small laptop, it has a half-height screen, whose resolution is 1024x480. The biggest obstacle to using Mandrake on this laptop is the fact the most Mandrake tools use large windows with no scrollbars. This is a fixable problem. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
one uses the right tool in the right place. And how are people supposed to use it if it's not visible??? which tools are unusable when embedded in mc at 640x480? is there a possibility to add a few lines to mcc, when the user clicks to run those, to check for screen resolution, and if it's =640x480, run it in a separated window? At least the tool would be usable.. Better yet, when the user clicks on the tool, make a dialog pop up: --- At your current screen resolution, I cannot embed this tool, or it will not fit your screen. Do you want to run it in a separate window? O Don't ask me again ___ |Yes| |No| --- Just trying to be helpful... Damian
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
--- Adam Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you just wilfully ignoring the actual experience that's been posted to this list? For the fourth time, I use a laptop. It's perfectly powerful enough to run KDE or GNOME (I use GNOME). Because it's a cunning small laptop, it has a half-height screen, whose resolution is 1024x480. That's reasonable. The biggest obstacle to using Mandrake on this laptop is the fact the most Mandrake tools use large windows with no scrollbars. This is a fixable problem. Almost anything is a fixable problem. The right question to ask, especially when you're in a situation with limited resources is, is it worth fixing? Maybe at some point if time permits yes, but there are definatly more important things to do right now. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
--- Reinout van Schouwen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello David, On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, David Walser wrote: Or redesigning them to be usable in 640x480. I'm not You're being totally unreasonable. If someone's got a I'm sorry that you find me acting unreasonable, I have no such intention. Whoops, I should be more clear. I don't find your behavior unreasonable, just your expecatations. monitor so crappy that they can't even run at 800x600, they use a different frontend to the draktools. At the risk of repeating myself, two points: 1. Being able to run at 800x600 doesn't necessarily mean someone actually uses that resolution. Is it so difficult to see that, as long as a user can switch resolution to 640x480 using mcc, he should be able to revert back using that same tool?! True enough. The fact is though that they can. They can use a different frontend. 2. Requiring different frontends makes things more complicated than needed, thus putting off users on the one hand, and generating support requests on the other. It's details like these why reviewers keep saying that Mandrake always has a little unfinished feel about it. No, having more frontends has more machines, more people's needs, and more people's tastes and configurations that we can't think of beforehand able to be supported. It gives things a more finished feeling. are covered by at least one frontend, so nobody can bitch about their machine not being supported. You are effectively saying that a user running at 640x480 should use a different frontend. Yes, just like someone with a P133 shouldn't run Gnome. Then why doesn't launching mcc in a low resolution automatically switch to framebuffer (DrakX) mode to enable the user to change his settings instead of forcing him to find out about the different frontends himself? Valid question, that would be neat actually (all it'd really have to do is launch a terminal and run the non-X version of the tool). Neatness doesn't always equal importance though. The way it works now, detecting if you're in X and launching the X version if so, otherwise not, is really easy to program. Adding this neat idea would take a lot more work, and probably isn't worth all of the effort right now. Are you gonna whine and complain to us when you find Gnome and Evolution unusable on a P133 with 16MB RAM??? I sure hope not. Doesn't mean No, but that's totally besides the point. We're discussing a *configuration tool* here, which almost by definition needs to support the lowest common denominator. And the point of the different frontends is so that we can support the lowest common denominator. It's also part of the benefit to having things like IceWM and mutt in the distro (the other being even people with fast machines like those). __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
On Tuesday 28 January 2003 07:14 am, Reinout van Schouwen scribbled in crayon on a yellow legal pad: as for tools written interactive, they can be run in text mode, which is the solution for too low resolution boxes. I'm sorry, but from an unexperienced user point of view, this is no solution, but a reason to throw that stupid difficult Linux thing aside. Reinout's comment sounds to me like an excuse to justify his lack of continued interest and lack of persistence. Or pehaps he just has an argumentative personality or a need to control; it doesn't really matter. I don't like getting up early to be at work, especially since there is no logical reason for me to do my work during any specific part of the day and it would be easy for my boss to relent on her demands that I arrive at work at a certain time, but I adjust and get on with business. So should we and Reinout. -- Hoyt http://www.maximumhoyt.com A -- Top posting. Q -- What's the most annoying habit in email and usenet?
[Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
https://qa.mandrakesoft.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1048 [EMAIL PROTECTED] changed: What|Removed |Added Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED Resolution||INVALID --- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2003-01-27 14:11 --- there several goal that're incompatibles: there's a tradeoff between having a standalone tool being complete and runnable in YxZ resolution. having the same tool runnable in the same resolution, but embedded in mcc, thus with mcc decoration around plus logdrake to display logs, is quite a lot more tough ... --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. --- Reminder: --- assigned_to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] description: Our computers run with 800x600 screens. Some of our computers are 640x480 - and all setup screens should work at that resolution! Under gnome, I cannot get to the buttons on a number of the panels, as they are laid out too big. The big blue stripe should be removed - it hogs all the screen space. A good example is the network startup screen.
[Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
https://qa.mandrakesoft.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1048 [EMAIL PROTECTED] changed: What|Removed |Added CC||[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2003-01-27 14:14 --- *** Bug 1071 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. *** --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. --- Reminder: --- assigned_to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] description: Our computers run with 800x600 screens. Some of our computers are 640x480 - and all setup screens should work at that resolution! Under gnome, I cannot get to the buttons on a number of the panels, as they are laid out too big. The big blue stripe should be removed - it hogs all the screen space. A good example is the network startup screen.
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
--- Reinout van Schouwen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, [Bug 1048] wrote: --- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2003-01-27 14:11 --- there several goal that're incompatibles: there's a tradeoff between having a standalone tool being complete and runnable in YxZ resolution. having the same tool runnable in the same resolution, but embedded in mcc, thus with mcc decoration around plus logdrake to display logs, is quite a lot more tough ... Thierry, I have to emphasize this *is* a very serious problem. Please also read this article: http://mpt.phrasewise.com/2003/01/05#a433 You can't ask of people who are running at lower resolutions (perhaps on older hardware, or whose X configuration didn't succeed) to know the XFdrake command instead of using the control center. Say what?? Please reconsider your stance on this, I believe it is really important that the control center can be used in 640x480! Thierry is right that this bug is invalid. It's absurd to expect them to support such a low resolution, when you need a minimum of 912x684 for KDE to really be usable. Don't forget also that there are console and web-based versions of the draktools, so it's not the end of the world! __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
[Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
https://qa.mandrakesoft.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1048 --- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2003-01-27 16:14 --- I am not sure you (Reinout) understand how much work it is. Under Windows, you may see programs that adapt dynamically to the screen resolution. When I use Borland tools under Windows, this is very easy. For each screen form I design, I can use a given resolution to develop, and add less than 5 lines of code to each, and it's done; if the user has a bigger screen, everything will be handled by the tool's library to inflate the form, change the controls position and make everything appear nice. AFAIK with Linux tools (Gtk), this is a lot of work. So if screens are designed in 640x480, they will stay as they are with most modern screens in 1280x1024 - and look ridiculous. It's not an easy thing to do to sell your stuff when you get ironical or mocking press reports. I understand your problem; I am using 800x600 myself, and many screens of Kde are too big to be handled easily at this resolution. But really, 640x480... From my experience, I'd guess than less than 1% of users are sticking to this resolution. Should Mandrake increase the workload by maybe 25% or more to support better a very small number of users ? It may be a luxury given the current situation. (Note : I don't belong to Mandrake) --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. --- Reminder: --- assigned_to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] description: Our computers run with 800x600 screens. Some of our computers are 640x480 - and all setup screens should work at that resolution! Under gnome, I cannot get to the buttons on a number of the panels, as they are laid out too big. The big blue stripe should be removed - it hogs all the screen space. A good example is the network startup screen.
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
On Mon, 2003-01-27 at 14:31, Reinout van Schouwen wrote: On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, [Bug 1048] wrote: --- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2003-01-27 14:11 --- there several goal that're incompatibles: there's a tradeoff between having a standalone tool being complete and runnable in YxZ resolution. having the same tool runnable in the same resolution, but embedded in mcc, thus with mcc decoration around plus logdrake to display logs, is quite a lot more tough ... Thierry, I have to emphasize this *is* a very serious problem. Please also read this article: http://mpt.phrasewise.com/2003/01/05#a433 You can't ask of people who are running at lower resolutions (perhaps on older hardware, or whose X configuration didn't succeed) to know the XFdrake command instead of using the control center. It is user unfriendliness to the nth degree. Please reconsider your stance on this, I believe it is really important that the control center can be used in 640x480! regards, It's not even very difficult. Just allow scrollbars. They're ugly as hell, sure, but those of us with non-standard resolutions would prefer that to unnavigable applications. And they needn't show up for people whose resolution allows the display of the whole app. A workaround for people in this situation at the moment - I don't know if there's an equivalent for different DE's / WM's, but with Sawfish under GNOME 2, if you hold down alt you can drag a window without needing to be point to its title bar. This is absolutely invaluable on my Picturebook (it displays at 1024x480, and it's not an uncommon machine...to name one person, Linus Torvalds has one :), and if someone hadn't given me that tip I'd find most Mandrake tools unusable. (To be fair, SuSE has the same problem). -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
On Mon, 2003-01-27 at 14:50, David Walser wrote: Thierry is right that this bug is invalid. It's absurd to expect them to support such a low resolution, when you need a minimum of 912x684 for KDE to really be usable. Don't forget also that there are console and web-based versions of the draktools, so it's not the end of the world! Not everyone uses KDE. As I say in my other message, GNOME is perfectly usable at 1024x480 on my laptop - the biggest obstacle is the Mandrake utilities. It's NOT a hard problem to fix. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
At 03:02 PM 1/27/03 +, you (Adam Williamson) wrote: Not everyone uses KDE. As I say in my other message, GNOME is perfectly usable at 1024x480 on my laptop - the biggest obstacle is the Mandrake utilities. It's NOT a hard problem to fix. What makes you so sure ? are you a programmer ? If so, I'd be happy to test your patches for mcc making it adapt dynamically to the screen resolution. Gerard
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
On Mon, 2003-01-27 at 16:22, Gerard Patel wrote: At 03:02 PM 1/27/03 +, you (Adam Williamson) wrote: Not everyone uses KDE. As I say in my other message, GNOME is perfectly usable at 1024x480 on my laptop - the biggest obstacle is the Mandrake utilities. It's NOT a hard problem to fix. What makes you so sure ? are you a programmer ? If so, I'd be happy to test your patches for mcc making it adapt dynamically to the screen resolution. See my other post. It doesn't NEED to dynamically adapt to anything. It needs... scrollbars. Hardly a revolutionary concept. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
At 04:24 PM 1/27/03 +, you wrote: See my other post. Sorry for the inappropriate reply, but I'm afraid that in my case the famous Sympa has eaten this mail. It doesn't NEED to dynamically adapt to anything. It needs... scrollbars. Got your post from the archive, if this can be enabled below some resolution, it could be a fix. I don't know how easy it is to get at the screen resolution and enable scrollbars dynamically with GTK. I'd say it could not be accepted that software displays scrollbars when it's not necessary, because as you say, it's very ugly. Gerard
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
On Mon, 2003-01-27 at 17:14, Gerard Patel wrote: scrollbars. Got your post from the archive, if this can be enabled below some resolution, it could be a fix. I don't know how easy it is to get at the screen resolution and enable scrollbars dynamically with GTK. I'd say it could not be accepted that software displays scrollbars when it's not necessary, because as you say, it's very ugly. I can't believe it's very difficult. I mean, take an example - I'm looking at Evolution right now, a GTK app. I have it maximised; the tree view on the left has no scrollbars. If I make it too thin for the whole tree view to be completely displayed horizontally, guess what? A scrollbar appears. If I make it too short for it to be completely displayed vertically (I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this...:), hey, another scrollbar appears! Just like that. SURELY this can't be *so* hard for the Mandrake tools to implement? I guess Mandrake has the slight extra problem of starting its tools up with an appropriate window size, but that must surely be possible too. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
At 05:17 PM 1/27/03 +, you wrote: I can't believe it's very difficult. I mean, take an example - I'm looking at Evolution right now, a GTK app. I have it maximised; the tree view on the left has no scrollbars. If I make it too thin for the whole tree view to be completely displayed horizontally, guess what? A scrollbar appears. If I make it too short for it to be completely displayed vertically (I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this...:), hey, another scrollbar appears! Just like that. SURELY this can't be *so* hard for the Mandrake tools to implement? I guess Mandrake has the slight extra problem of starting its tools up with an appropriate window size, but that must surely be possible too. Hmmm... everything is possible with enough code but is it worth the bother, that's always the question. I have just done a few minutes of search on the Internet, and looking at : http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/gtk/gtkwindow.html I see that this is not a simple matter of setting a few properties on a window to create it with toolbars; it seems that what you have to do is to create a parent window of a special kind, and the real window to be a child of this window. It seems that Gtk automatically expands a window when widgets are added to it : A toplevel window will always change size to ensure its child widgets receive their requested size. This means that if you add child widgets, the toplevel window will expand to contain them. For fun, I read also later : Furthermore GTK+ has a tendency to re-expand the window if size is recalculated for any reason. Well, I am a programmer and when I read about a software tool that it exhibits 'tendancies', I run. It all but announces a world of horrors. I don't really know as I don't touch Gtk, but what I find suspicious is that feature is absent from most Gtk software. If *everyone* was doing it but Mandrake, your opinion would be certain. But like another poster said, Evolution is a big app; it is probably not your typical open source software written by a few enthusiasts; it had some serious corporate backing from what I understand. Gerard
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
Hello Gerard, On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Gerard Patel wrote: I have just done a few minutes of search on the Internet, and looking at : http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/gtk/gtkwindow.html Well, you should have spent a few minutes more, because the document you're referring to covers GTK 1.x, and AFAIK Mandrake is now using GTK 2.2 for all of its tools. See http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/2.0/gtk/GtkWindow.html regards, -- Reinout van SchouwenArtificial Intelligence student email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mobile phone: +31-6-44360778 GPG public key http://www.cs.vu.nl/~reinout/reinout.asc
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
At 08:05 PM 1/27/03 +0100, you (Reinout van Schouwen) wrote: Well, you should have spent a few minutes more, because the document you're referring to covers GTK 1.x, and AFAIK Mandrake is now using GTK 2.2 for all of its tools. See http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/2.0/gtk/GtkWindow.html Not much seems to have changed from this point of view; it was to be expected, since Window behaviour is largely a following of X Window (generally speaking) behaviour and some compatibility has to exist from a version to another. Gerard
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
On Monday 27 January 2003 01:56 pm, Reinout van Schouwen scribbled in crayon on a yellow legal pad: It's not *my* problem, but I shudder to think of the frustration this would cause to someone who had accidentally set his screen resolution too low and tries to use the control center to revert it back and finds that he can't do so because the frigging OK button is off the screen... Doesn't the holding Alt- key while grabbing the window allow you to move it around? Awkward, but useful as a workaround. -- Hoyt
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
On Mon, 2003-01-27 at 17:35, Buchan Milne wrote: Adam Williamson wrote: On Mon, 2003-01-27 at 17:14, Gerard Patel wrote: I can't believe it's very difficult. I mean, take an example - I'm looking at Evolution right now, a GTK app. I have it maximised; the tree view on the left has no scrollbars. If I make it too thin for the whole tree view to be completely displayed horizontally, guess what? A scrollbar appears. At close on a million lines of code (IIRC), Evo isn't a very good example of how to do things easily. The GTK2 port has taken them over a year AFAIK ... and it's nowhere near stable yet ... *sigh* come on, Buchan, surely you realise it was just the first example that came to hand. If you really want, gaim does exactly the same. It's GTK 2, and it's a small app. Happy now? Crikey. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
At 07:56 PM 1/27/03 +0100, you (Reinout van Schouwen) wrote: (...) You will get mocking press reports either way bah. Journos don't do their reviews on 486-25 computers. , but at least when you choose the 640x480 option, you don't make the control center unusable for some people. some people can as well change these values in mcc : --- drakconf.real.orig 2003-01-27 13:12:31.0 +0100 +++ drakconf.real 2003-01-27 21:02:15.0 +0100 @@ -264,7 +264,7 @@ # main window : -my ($global_width, $global_height) = (720, 578); +my ($global_width, $global_height) = (640, 480); my ($timeout, $show_log_check_box, $embedded_check_box, $expert_wizard_check_box); [root@duron sbin]# Now making this work in an elegant way, that's another story. And changing all the other Mandrake tools also - some of them in need of more urgent bug-fixing IMO. Gerard
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
On Mon, 2003-01-27 at 18:53, Gerard Patel wrote: doing it but Mandrake, your opinion would be certain. But like another poster said, Evolution is a big app; it is probably not your typical open source software written by a few enthusiasts; it had some serious corporate backing from what I understand. See my post re gaim. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
On Mon, 2003-01-27 at 20:21, Gerard Patel wrote: At 07:56 PM 1/27/03 +0100, you (Reinout van Schouwen) wrote: (...) You will get mocking press reports either way bah. Journos don't do their reviews on 486-25 computers. , but at least when you choose the 640x480 option, you don't make the control center unusable for some people. some people can as well change these values in mcc : --- drakconf.real.orig 2003-01-27 13:12:31.0 +0100 +++ drakconf.real 2003-01-27 21:02:15.0 +0100 @@ -264,7 +264,7 @@ # main window : -my ($global_width, $global_height) = (720, 578); +my ($global_width, $global_height) = (640, 480); my ($timeout, $show_log_check_box, $embedded_check_box, $expert_wizard_check_box); [root@duron sbin]# Now making this work in an elegant way, that's another story. And changing all the other Mandrake tools also - some of them in need of more urgent bug-fixing IMO. How does that help? Surely it just makes a smaller window in which some stuff wouldn't be visible, which is still useless. (heh, we call our machines by their processor type as well...=) -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
At 08:12 PM 1/27/03 +, you (Adam Williamson) wrote: On Mon, 2003-01-27 at 18:53, Gerard Patel wrote: doing it but Mandrake, your opinion would be certain. But like another poster said, Evolution is a big app; it is probably not your typical open source software written by a few enthusiasts; it had some serious corporate backing from what I understand. See my post re gaim. I have never used gaim, you see. I urpmi'ed it for you. Launched it. Started the Options screen. Hum, where is the 'Close' button ?' That's right, out of my screen real estate (at 800x600). Nice try, play again. Gerard
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
On Mon, 2003-01-27 at 20:37, Gerard Patel wrote: At 08:12 PM 1/27/03 +, you (Adam Williamson) wrote: On Mon, 2003-01-27 at 18:53, Gerard Patel wrote: doing it but Mandrake, your opinion would be certain. But like another poster said, Evolution is a big app; it is probably not your typical open source software written by a few enthusiasts; it had some serious corporate backing from what I understand. See my post re gaim. I have never used gaim, you see. I urpmi'ed it for you. Launched it. Started the Options screen. Hum, where is the 'Close' button ?' That's right, out of my screen real estate (at 800x600). Nice try, play again. Well, don't urpmi gaim, cos Mandrake's still using 0.59, and CVS is way better (0.60) =). You're still sort of right as regards 0.60, though - it does use a fixed size preferences window. Which is odd, because I was referring to the contact list, which *does* dynamically include or remove scrollbars (for instance, with just a few people logged on my contact list has no scrollbars, but if a bunch more log on and they no longer fit in the window, I get a vertical scrollbar). -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
At 08:37 PM 1/27/03 +, you (Adam Williamson) wrote: Well, don't urpmi gaim, cos Mandrake's still using 0.59, and CVS is way better (0.60) =). You're still sort of right as regards 0.60, though - it does use a fixed size preferences window. Which is odd, because I was referring to the contact list, which *does* dynamically include or remove scrollbars (for instance, with just a few people logged on my contact list has no scrollbars, but if a bunch more log on and they no longer fit in the window, I get a vertical scrollbar). A list is another story; a list is completely useless without scrolling so it _has_ to be implemented anyway, even if your screen is an Ibm T221. Some Mandrake tools have scrollbars too to handle lists, like drakservices for example. Gerard
[Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
https://qa.mandrakesoft.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1048 --- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2003-01-27 22:40 --- 640x480 tools do not look silly at all - one reason people have big screens is to have more things on them, not just bigger things. Windows system tools do not automatically resize - and they all work on 640x480. To say most screens are 1200x1000 is accurate only for the wealthy, not for the typical linux user. We have 25 fairly recent computers in this office, and not a single one has a 1200x1000 screen. --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. --- Reminder: --- assigned_to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] description: Our computers run with 800x600 screens. Some of our computers are 640x480 - and all setup screens should work at that resolution! Under gnome, I cannot get to the buttons on a number of the panels, as they are laid out too big. The big blue stripe should be removed - it hogs all the screen space. A good example is the network startup screen.
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
On Mon, 2003-01-27 at 20:58, Gerard Patel wrote: At 08:37 PM 1/27/03 +, you (Adam Williamson) wrote: Well, don't urpmi gaim, cos Mandrake's still using 0.59, and CVS is way better (0.60) =). You're still sort of right as regards 0.60, though - it does use a fixed size preferences window. Which is odd, because I was referring to the contact list, which *does* dynamically include or remove scrollbars (for instance, with just a few people logged on my contact list has no scrollbars, but if a bunch more log on and they no longer fit in the window, I get a vertical scrollbar). A list is another story; a list is completely useless without scrolling so it _has_ to be implemented anyway, even if your screen is an Ibm T221. Some Mandrake tools have scrollbars too to handle lists, like drakservices for example. Well, yes, and drakconf etc. are currently completely useless to those of us with low resolution screens. For the same reason. Sure it's a smaller set, but so what? Microsoft can get away with endlessly upping hardware requirements and pandering to a bare majority, Linux vendors can't... -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
On 2003.01.27 Adam Williamson wrote: On Mon, 2003-01-27 at 17:35, Buchan Milne wrote: Adam Williamson wrote: On Mon, 2003-01-27 at 17:14, Gerard Patel wrote: I can't believe it's very difficult. I mean, take an example - I'm looking at Evolution right now, a GTK app. I have it maximised; the tree view on the left has no scrollbars. If I make it too thin for the whole tree view to be completely displayed horizontally, guess what? A scrollbar appears. At close on a million lines of code (IIRC), Evo isn't a very good example of how to do things easily. The GTK2 port has taken them over a year AFAIK ... and it's nowhere near stable yet ... *sigh* come on, Buchan, surely you realise it was just the first example that came to hand. If you really want, gaim does exactly the same. It's GTK 2, and it's a small app. Happy now? Crikey. Showing or hiding the scrollbars inside a GtkScrolledWindow is automatic, just 1 line of C code is needed for that. If the perl interface is a 1-to-1 mapping to the C functionality, just a line of perl. -- J.A. Magallon [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ Software is like sex: werewolf.able.es \ It's better when it's free Mandrake Linux release 9.1 (Cooker) for i586 Linux 2.4.21-pre3-jam3 (gcc 3.2.1 (Mandrake Linux 9.1 3.2.1-4mdk))
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
On 2003.01.27 Gerard Patel wrote: At 05:17 PM 1/27/03 +, you wrote: I can't believe it's very difficult. I mean, take an example - I'm looking at Evolution right now, a GTK app. I have it maximised; the tree view on the left has no scrollbars. If I make it too thin for the whole tree view to be completely displayed horizontally, guess what? A scrollbar appears. If I make it too short for it to be completely displayed vertically (I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this...:), hey, another scrollbar appears! Just like that. SURELY this can't be *so* hard for the Mandrake tools to implement? I guess Mandrake has the slight extra problem of starting its tools up with an appropriate window size, but that must surely be possible too. Hmmm... everything is possible with enough code but is it worth the bother, that's always the question. I have just done a few minutes of search on the Internet, and looking at : http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/gtk/gtkwindow.html Look at GtkScrolledWindow. As I see it, it is just a three-liner to make everyone happy: - change the GtkWindow in mcc for a GtkScrolledWindow - let the default size for mcc whatever you want. If it is bigger than the screen, the system will not make it that size, but just fit to the avaliable space - if you use a small screen, then the scrollbars wil be visible. if you are at 1600x1200, no scrollbars will appear. As I said, just 1 line change and 1 line add to set default scrolling policy for the GtkScrolledWindow. Err, supposing the interfaces are implemented in perl (I just use the C gtk) Hope this helps. -- J.A. Magallon [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ Software is like sex: werewolf.able.es \ It's better when it's free Mandrake Linux release 9.1 (Cooker) for i586 Linux 2.4.21-pre3-jam3 (gcc 3.2.1 (Mandrake Linux 9.1 3.2.1-4mdk))
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
On Mon, 2003-01-27 at 22:20, J.A. Magallon wrote: Look at GtkScrolledWindow. As I see it, it is just a three-liner to make everyone happy: - change the GtkWindow in mcc for a GtkScrolledWindow - let the default size for mcc whatever you want. If it is bigger than the screen, the system will not make it that size, but just fit to the avaliable space - if you use a small screen, then the scrollbars wil be visible. if you are at 1600x1200, no scrollbars will appear. As I said, just 1 line change and 1 line add to set default scrolling policy for the GtkScrolledWindow. Err, supposing the interfaces are implemented in perl (I just use the C gtk) Hope this helps. Thanks! That sounds like exactly what I was proposing. MDK guys? -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 1048] [drakconf] Screen layout makes it impossible to use!
At 11:20 PM 1/27/03 +0100, you wrote:
Look at GtkScrolledWindow. As I see it, it is just a three-liner to make
everyone happy:
- change the GtkWindow in mcc for a GtkScrolledWindow
and 1 line add to set default scrolling policy
I tried it :
-my $window_global = gtkset_size_request(Gtk2::Window-new('toplevel'),
$global_width, $global_height);
+my $window_global = gtkset_size_request(Gtk2::ScrolledWindow-new(undef,
undef), $global_width, $global_height);
my $pending_app = 0;
%I
Result :
[root@duron sbin]# Is gtk2-perl missing Gtk2::ScrolledWindow::add_accel_group ?
Call trace:
Gtk2::_Object::AUTOLOAD() called from /usr/lib/libDrakX/ugtk2.pm:392
ugtk2::create_factory_menu_() called from /usr/lib/libDrakX/ugtk2.pm:396
ugtk2::create_factory_menu() called from /usr/sbin/drakconf.real:317
So much for the one liner.
This discussion is tiresome. Since everyone is persuaded that this is *easy*,
I think that people who think it is easy should implement it. I'm absolutely
no specialist of perl or Gtk.
Don't forget that other utilities are written in C and don't depend on mcc
for their screen size, too.
Gerard
