Re: Renaming the "QA Hackathon"?

[Philippe Bruhat (BooK)]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 12:33:31PM +0200, Salve J Nilsen wrote:
> 
> I'm looking forward to hear where this discussion goes, and where the 10th
> anniversiary will be next year. (On that note, would you guys be interested
> in seeing a QAH in Oslo again?)

For the record, I've been thinking about proposing to hold it in Lyon
again in 2017.

I look forward to seeing the summary of all the feedback Neil has been
gathering from the participants, as I'm quite certain it will give the
next organisers many useful clue for organising a very successful event.

-- 
 Philippe Bruhat (BooK)

 To flaunt your strength is to make it your weakness.
(Moral from Groo The Wanderer #25 (Epic))

Re: Renaming the "QA Hackathon"?

[Neil Bowers]

Hi Salve,

> Since I'm the guy that actually named the QA hackathon originally, I'll take 
> the liberty to share my thoughts on the matter. I hope You don't mind. :)
> 
> "The Perl QA Hackathon" was originally named after the IRC channel: "The 
> #perl-qa hackathon". If you guys want to change the name (which I think you 
> are completely entitled to do, and probably is a good idea), maybe it's worth 
> considering the IRC channel roots of the name?

We had a discussion on the name at the QAH. I’ll write up a summary at some 
point this week.

> I'm looking forward to hear where this discussion goes, and where the 10th 
> anniversiary will be next year. (On that note, would you guys be interested 
> in seeing a QAH in Oslo again?)

In a group discussion the possibility of Oslo was mentioned, and a number of 
people were positive, and no dissenting opinions were given :-)

Neil

Re: Renaming the "QA Hackathon"?

[Peter Rabbitson]

On 04/20/2016 09:39 PM, Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote:

* Salve J Nilsen  [2016-04-19 14:06]:

Hm "Perl Ecosystem Summit"...

I thought of that myself and ended up not proposing it because the
Annual Perl Ecosystem Summit would be the APES. But maybe that is
actually good?


Well it's on par with (or slightly better than)

Perl
Essential
Networking and
Infrastructure
Symposium

Re: Renaming the "QA Hackathon"?

[Leon Timmermans]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 12:33 PM, Salve J Nilsen  wrote:

> Well, good luck figuring out this topic! Wish I could join you in Rugby,
> and I'm looking forward to hear where this discussion goes, and where the
> 10th anniversiary will be next year. (On that note, would you guys be
> interested in seeing a QAH in Oslo again?)
>

Oslo sounds great! :-D

Leon

Re: Renaming the "QA Hackathon"?

[Salve J Nilsen]

Hey folks,

Since I'm the guy that actually named the QA hackathon originally, I'll take 
the liberty to share my thoughts on the matter. I hope You don't mind. :)


"The Perl QA Hackathon" was originally named after the IRC channel: "The 
#perl-qa hackathon". If you guys want to change the name (which I think you 
are completely entitled to do, and probably is a good idea), maybe it's worth 
considering the IRC channel roots of the name?


In any case, I'd like to offer "The Perl QA Summit" as an alterntive to 
consider. Sure, the "hackathon" term has changed it's meaning over the years, 
but I've always liked the Perl community's take on it much more than the 
prize-infused hacking competitions that others mean when they use the word.


As for "QA", I'm still a fan of the term, since I've always hoped that the 
gathering could be a place for gathering anyone who cares about any part of 
the Perl ecosystem – not just "toolchain" or "infrastructure" but also how the 
Perl community interfaces with other communities.


And as for "Summit". Yes. That's a wonderful term, and spot on for this event.

Hm "Perl Ecosystem Summit"...

Well, good luck figuring out this topic! Wish I could join you in Rugby, and 
I'm looking forward to hear where this discussion goes, and where the 10th 
anniversiary will be next year. (On that note, would you guys be interested in 
seeing a QAH in Oslo again?)



'nuff rambling for now. I whish you the best for the hackathon. :)

- Salve


Neil Bowers said:


I’ve added a topic to the wiki page for “topics for discussion” at the QAH:
  Should we rename this event?

Eg to “Perl QA Workshop”, or something like that.

There’s a well-established definition for “hackathon” these days, and the
QAH is not one of those. As a result when talking to potential sponsors, we
have to be careful to define what the event is, how it works, and the
attitude towards the output(s). I’ve had plenty of discussions explaining
“no, not that kind of hackathon”.

Ie people who aren’t already familiar with the QAH hear “4-day … hackathon”
and think something along the lines of:

  So you’re going to get together and lash things up in a frenzy,
  in teams competing against each other.


Uh, no.

Producing the number of sponsors we have requires contacting an awful lot
more companies and organisations, and I wonder how many of them skim it and
think:

  So they want some money to get together for a hackathon?

We don’t support hackathons.


And then don’t bother replying. Or just reply with a “no”, which obviously
we have to respect.

On the flip side, it’s an established name, which is being held for the 9th
time this year.

I’m not saying “we must change the name!", but think we should consider it.

Neil





--
#!/usr/bin/env perl
sub AUTOLOAD{$AUTOLOAD=~/.*::(\d+)/;seek(DATA,$1,0);print# Salve Joshua Nilsen
getc DATA}$"="'};&{'";@_=unpack("C*",unpack("u*",':50,$'.#
'3!=0"59,6!`%%P\0!1)46%!F.Q`%01,`'."\n"));eval "&{'@_'}";  __END__ is near! :)

Re: Renaming the "QA Hackathon"?

[Aristotle Pagaltzis]

* Aristotle Pagaltzis  [2016-04-18 14:31]:
> FWIW, in case it helps (probably not, but eh), the IETF runs hackathons
> that seem to follow the original meaning of the term as we use it; e.g.:
> https://www.ietf.org/blog/2016/04/ietf-hackathon-getting-tls-1-3-working-in-the-browser/

No they don’t. I misread the whole thing, ugh. Sorry for the noise.

Re: Renaming the "QA Hackathon"?

[Aristotle Pagaltzis]

* Neil Bowers  [2016-04-09 16:23]:
> There’s a well-established definition for “hackathon” these days, and
> the QAH is not one of those.

FWIW, in case it helps (probably not, but eh), the IETF runs hackathons
that seem to follow the original meaning of the term as we use it; e.g.:
https://www.ietf.org/blog/2016/04/ietf-hackathon-getting-tls-1-3-working-in-the-browser/

Re: Renaming the "QA Hackathon"?

[Kent Fredric]

On 10 April 2016 at 04:49, Sawyer X  wrote:
> Perl Annual Critical Infrastructure Summit.


Perl Infrastructural Engineering Summit.

PIES.  :D


Summit of Perl Infrastructural Critical Engineering.

SPICE.

Hth.

-- 
Kent

KENTNL - https://metacpan.org/author/KENTNL

Re: Renaming the "QA Hackathon"?

[Sawyer X]

Merging the suggestions I saw so far:

Perl Annual Critical Infrastructure Summit.

A mouthful, and not a fun acronym.

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 6:16 PM, Karen Etheridge  wrote:
> When I saw this thread title I thought it was going to be discussing the
> "QA" part of it, and I thought "yeah, right on!".. I totally agree with
> Neil's points about what we do not being a "hackathon" though.
>
> ..And I also like the idea of changing the QA bit to Infrastructure.
>
> Perl Infrastructure  gets a vote from me.
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 8:50 AM, Kent Fredric  wrote:
>>
>> On 10 April 2016 at 03:45, David Golden  wrote:
>> > Perl Toolchain Summit
>>
>>
>> Because "Toolchain" is not really a word that necessarily makes sense
>> outside Perl, you can use "Infrastructure" or even "Critical
>> Infrastructure" in its stead.  ( I personally like Critical, its a
>> very spicy word, and accurately reflects the propensity of this sphere
>> of things to either go pear shaped or steal your SAN Cookies )
>>
>> Also, depending on how many words you want to spend, throwing "Annual"
>> in there might help give some context to how frequently these things
>> happen.
>>
>> The narrative you want to be carrying in your words is:
>>
>> "Every year, we get all our brightest in one place and discuss and
>> work on the most pressing and important problems that affect the the
>> broadest number of concerns in the Perl+CPAN ecosystem"
>>
>> --
>> Kent
>>
>> KENTNL - https://metacpan.org/author/KENTNL
>
>

Re: Renaming the "QA Hackathon"?

[Karen Etheridge]

When I saw this thread title I thought it was going to be discussing the
"QA" part of it, and I thought "yeah, right on!".. I totally agree with
Neil's points about what we do not being a "hackathon" though.

..And I also like the idea of changing the QA bit to Infrastructure.

Perl Infrastructure  gets a vote from me.


On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 8:50 AM, Kent Fredric  wrote:

> On 10 April 2016 at 03:45, David Golden  wrote:
> > Perl Toolchain Summit
>
>
> Because "Toolchain" is not really a word that necessarily makes sense
> outside Perl, you can use "Infrastructure" or even "Critical
> Infrastructure" in its stead.  ( I personally like Critical, its a
> very spicy word, and accurately reflects the propensity of this sphere
> of things to either go pear shaped or steal your SAN Cookies )
>
> Also, depending on how many words you want to spend, throwing "Annual"
> in there might help give some context to how frequently these things
> happen.
>
> The narrative you want to be carrying in your words is:
>
> "Every year, we get all our brightest in one place and discuss and
> work on the most pressing and important problems that affect the the
> broadest number of concerns in the Perl+CPAN ecosystem"
>
> --
> Kent
>
> KENTNL - https://metacpan.org/author/KENTNL
>

Re: Renaming the "QA Hackathon"?

[Kent Fredric]

On 10 April 2016 at 03:45, David Golden  wrote:
> Perl Toolchain Summit


Because "Toolchain" is not really a word that necessarily makes sense
outside Perl, you can use "Infrastructure" or even "Critical
Infrastructure" in its stead.  ( I personally like Critical, its a
very spicy word, and accurately reflects the propensity of this sphere
of things to either go pear shaped or steal your SAN Cookies )

Also, depending on how many words you want to spend, throwing "Annual"
in there might help give some context to how frequently these things
happen.

The narrative you want to be carrying in your words is:

"Every year, we get all our brightest in one place and discuss and
work on the most pressing and important problems that affect the the
broadest number of concerns in the Perl+CPAN ecosystem"

-- 
Kent

KENTNL - https://metacpan.org/author/KENTNL

Re: Renaming the "QA Hackathon"?

[David Golden]

Perl Toolchain Summit
On Apr 9, 2016 10:28 AM, "David Cantrell"  wrote:

> I think the word you're looking for is symposium. Although I think
> hackathon is just fine.
>
> --
> David Cantrell
>
> This electrogram was despatched by wireless field telegraph. I would
> therefore ask that the recipient be so kind as to excuse any failures of
> courtesy or linguistic inelegance as an unfortunate side-effect of the
> technology.
>
> > On 9 Apr 2016, at 15:11, James E Keenan  wrote:
> >
> >> On 04/09/2016 09:06 AM, Neil Bowers wrote:
> >> I’ve added a topic to the wiki page for “topics for discussion” at the
> QAH:
> >>
> > [snip]
> >> There’s a well-established definition for “hackathon” these days, and
> the QAH is not one of those. As a result when talking to potential
> sponsors, we have to be careful to define what the event is, how it works,
> and the attitude towards the output(s). I’ve had plenty of discussions
> explaining “no, not that kind of hackathon”.
> >>
> >> Ie people who aren’t already familiar with the QAH hear “4-day …
> hackathon” and think something along the lines of:
> >>
> >> So you’re going to get together and lash things up in a frenzy, in
> teams competing against each other.
> >>
> >
> > I concede that the predominant use of the term "hackathon" these days is
> a highly competitive event where teams compete against one another under
> time pressure.  That's true both within private companies and in cases
> where, say, a government body open-sources its data and seeks new "apps".
> >
> > Once again, Perl is different -- and that's not a difference that we
> should relinquish.  I count my participation in the Chicago hackathon Andy
> and Pete organized in November 2006 as my entry point into real
> collaboration with other members of the Perl community.  All the hackathons
> that I have participated in since then -- including at least four which I
> have organized[1] -- have emphasized collaboration and contributions to the
> Perl ecosphere rather than competition.  None have awarded prizes.
> >
> > The Perl QA Hackathon is, admittedly, somewhat unique among Perl
> hackathons in that it is an admittedly elite event where funds are raised
> to bring together Perl experts from around the world to work in a more
> focused way and to develop consensus around proposals for the evolution of
> the Perl infrastructure.  For that, you need, some serious funds, probably
> in at least five figures.
> >
> > Of the hackathons I myself have organized, only one needed donations in
> any form other than the venue, and in that case the donor had a budget for
> open-source contributions which had to be spent.  We would have been more
> than happy with just the venue, but the extra contributions did enable us
> to provide transportation costs for five people from outside our area to
> serve as hackathon mentors.
> >
> > I think the larger question of "How do we raise money for Perl events
> even when they don't conform to larger corporate or societal expectations?"
> is a good one, and I thank Neil for kicking off the discussion.  But I
> share Kent's skepticism about alternative names as an easy answer to that
> question.
> >
> > Thank you very much.
> > Jim Keenan
> >
> > [1] My earlier thoughts on hackathons:
> >
> > "How to Get the Most Out of a Hackathon":
> > http://thenceforward.net/perl/yapc/YAPC-NA-2007/houslight/index.html
> >
> > "Let's Have a Distributed Perl Hackathon":
> >
> http://blogs.perl.org/users/kid51/2012/10/lets-have-a-distributed-perl-hackathon.html
> >
> > "New York Perl Hackathon A Success":
> >
> http://blogs.perl.org/users/kid51/2013/03/new-york-perl-hackathon-a-success.html
> >
>
>

Re: Renaming the "QA Hackathon"?

[David Cantrell]

I think the word you're looking for is symposium. Although I think hackathon is 
just fine.

-- 
David Cantrell

This electrogram was despatched by wireless field telegraph. I would therefore 
ask that the recipient be so kind as to excuse any failures of courtesy or 
linguistic inelegance as an unfortunate side-effect of the technology.

> On 9 Apr 2016, at 15:11, James E Keenan  wrote:
> 
>> On 04/09/2016 09:06 AM, Neil Bowers wrote:
>> I’ve added a topic to the wiki page for “topics for discussion” at the QAH:
>> 
> [snip]
>> There’s a well-established definition for “hackathon” these days, and the 
>> QAH is not one of those. As a result when talking to potential sponsors, we 
>> have to be careful to define what the event is, how it works, and the 
>> attitude towards the output(s). I’ve had plenty of discussions explaining 
>> “no, not that kind of hackathon”.
>> 
>> Ie people who aren’t already familiar with the QAH hear “4-day … hackathon” 
>> and think something along the lines of:
>> 
>> So you’re going to get together and lash things up in a frenzy, in teams 
>> competing against each other.
>> 
> 
> I concede that the predominant use of the term "hackathon" these days is a 
> highly competitive event where teams compete against one another under time 
> pressure.  That's true both within private companies and in cases where, say, 
> a government body open-sources its data and seeks new "apps".
> 
> Once again, Perl is different -- and that's not a difference that we should 
> relinquish.  I count my participation in the Chicago hackathon Andy and Pete 
> organized in November 2006 as my entry point into real collaboration with 
> other members of the Perl community.  All the hackathons that I have 
> participated in since then -- including at least four which I have 
> organized[1] -- have emphasized collaboration and contributions to the Perl 
> ecosphere rather than competition.  None have awarded prizes.
> 
> The Perl QA Hackathon is, admittedly, somewhat unique among Perl hackathons 
> in that it is an admittedly elite event where funds are raised to bring 
> together Perl experts from around the world to work in a more focused way and 
> to develop consensus around proposals for the evolution of the Perl 
> infrastructure.  For that, you need, some serious funds, probably in at least 
> five figures.
> 
> Of the hackathons I myself have organized, only one needed donations in any 
> form other than the venue, and in that case the donor had a budget for 
> open-source contributions which had to be spent.  We would have been more 
> than happy with just the venue, but the extra contributions did enable us to 
> provide transportation costs for five people from outside our area to serve 
> as hackathon mentors.
> 
> I think the larger question of "How do we raise money for Perl events even 
> when they don't conform to larger corporate or societal expectations?" is a 
> good one, and I thank Neil for kicking off the discussion.  But I share 
> Kent's skepticism about alternative names as an easy answer to that question.
> 
> Thank you very much.
> Jim Keenan
> 
> [1] My earlier thoughts on hackathons:
> 
> "How to Get the Most Out of a Hackathon":
> http://thenceforward.net/perl/yapc/YAPC-NA-2007/houslight/index.html
> 
> "Let's Have a Distributed Perl Hackathon":
> http://blogs.perl.org/users/kid51/2012/10/lets-have-a-distributed-perl-hackathon.html
> 
> "New York Perl Hackathon A Success":
> http://blogs.perl.org/users/kid51/2013/03/new-york-perl-hackathon-a-success.html
>