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Re: CDR: Google Search: text analysis
* Jim Choate [EMAIL PROTECTED] [010513]: http://www.google.com/search?q=text+analysis I know it may be a little arrogant of me to presume that this was in response to my mail, but if it was, you might want to reread what I wrote and the sort of responses this search gave. If it was a more subtle point, one telling me to use a search engine, I am more than open for any more applicable keywords. And just so no one has to follow the link, if you want lots of software to build concordances, those results will serve you very well. If not, it's rather pointless. --Ryan Sorensen
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Re: Re: A little help.
On Sun, 13 May 2001 22:52:34 Ryan Sorensen wrote: * Jim Windle [EMAIL PROTECTED] [010513]: On Sun, 13 May 2001 21:41:06 Ryan Sorensen wrote: Any help is appreciated. Including pointers to online resources or past discussions, if they have any specifics. The discussions in the back issues of Cryptologia, which cite other works, are the only source I am familar (with though there must be others). Unfortunately only the tables of contents of back issues seem to be available online. Thanks. The two Cryptologia issues that seem to be relevant are October 1993 and 1994. Oct 1993 : Statistical Techniques for Language Recognition Oct 1994 : Statistical Techniques for Language Recognition : An Empirical Study using Real and Simulated English Which one do you think is more valuable? Or is it both? Actually I think you should check out an entirely different article. I would recommend The Beale Cipher as a Bamboozlement Part II in Cryptologia Vol XII, #4 October 1988. The article was one of a number of articles about the Beale ciphers from the early years of Cryptologia which suggest they are fake. The authors point was that the strong stylistic correspondence between the writing style of the decrypter the one decrypted message and that person's other writings. Most of the articles about the Beale cipher refer to this point. The article also references two books, which are now old but might be useful though not having read them I can't really say. They are: Morton, A. 1978 Literary Detection: How to Prove Authorship and Fraud in Literature and Documents. New York: Charles Scribner's Sons Williams, C.B. 1970 Style and Vocabulary: Numerical Studies London: Charles Griffin and Co. The other reference which seems interesting, though I imagine hard to find, is: Nickel, J. 1982 Discovered, the Secret of Beale's Treasure Virginia Magazine of History and Biography. 90(3)July: 310-324 Ths last is interesting because he went to the trouble of comparing writing samples against controls of samples by other writers of the same period and geographic area in order to establish what was distinctive about the sample. The author was at the time a professor at the University of Kentucky. He seems to have done a pretty good job. It strikes me that this sort of thing is sound in theory but fairly hard to execute effectively, as well as subject to some degree of subjectivity. I also have a hazy recollection of this sort of analysis being used on the Hitler diaries a few years ago. Anyway I hope that is helpful. Jim Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com
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Re: Re: A little help.
Giving this a little more thought it seems to me to be a pretty tricky application of statistical analysis. The problem being that the underlaying process, a persons writing, may itself be pretty variable. In my own case I am aware of my own tendency to write in run on sentences (not to mention that if I do it it is a run on sentence, if William Faulkner does it it is a brilliant use of stream of consciousness technique). If I am feeling lazy or hurried this will go uncorrected; however if I have a little time I will clean it up. Therefore an indicator such as the ratio of compound sentences to simple sentences, or the average word length of sentences may vary considerably between different samples of my writing. Not to mention a difference in style if I am writing to simply explain something versus advocating or trying to convince someone else of something, or flaming someone. Systematic differences in the way I write now as opposed to 10 years ago could also be a probl! ! em. The obvious way to attack the problem is with a lot of samples and indicators which are then compared against a control to determine what is the most distinctive chararcteristics of each writer. Still you probably need to come up with a standard deviation for each indicator and the answer is going to be a probability rather than a certainty, but that's life. You should probably also ask yourself what is more important Type I or Type II errors, or if you need a good balance between them. For instance I can identify 100% of the posts made by Tim simply by identifying every post as being from him. I have now identified 100% his posts but it may not be very useful. On the otherhand if I am concerned about not attributing a post by one nym to another nym incorrectly I simply don't attribute any posts to the first nym. Thus I could say the indicator is 100% accurate but it simply isn't very useful. So I think you need to work out good control to judge samples against and! ! possibly some scheme to stratify samples, for instances not using my e-mail psotings with business writing as the 2 will have different characteristics but rather using samples of my postings to identify my many anonymous postings and my business writing to identify my many anonymous business writings. (if I were feeling more energetic on Monday morning I would break that up into a couple of shorter sentences) But you need to be very careful not to introduce too much subjectivity into the categorization. Jim -- On Sun, 13 May 2001 23:03:56 Ryan Sorensen wrote: * Tim May [EMAIL PROTECTED] [010513]: At 9:41 PM -0700 5/13/01, Ryan Sorensen wrote: So I get this idea. Crypto is great for lots of things, but anonymous public postings it's not. I know this has been discussed here before, but I haven't seen specifics. What exactly makes a person's writing style distinctive? Is it distinctive phrases? Number of syllables? And almost the inverse, how would you come up with a generic writing style? Any help is appreciated. Including pointers to online resources or past discussions, if they have any specifics. Think in terms of how _you_ would try to identify similar styles. -- British or foreign usages -- type of emphasis indicators (like _this_ or like *this* or like) -- use of ellipses, em dashes, etc. -- vocabulary, phrases I didn't want to have to come up with my own list if someone had done work before me. Other ones I was thinking of were the number of syllables used in words, length of paragraphs, number of times sentences are split and go on their way towards run on sentences. These would be in addition to the ones listed by Jim Windle. (Thanks Jim!) snipped Will frequent posters to this and other mailing lists have specific posts fall into correlation bins? You tell us. On this list? It's hard to say. I haven't been actively paying attention to the way people write here for long enough. There are other lists, in particular dc-stuff, where people give long passages with enough idiosyncrasies to give me the gut feeling that they could be categorized at least. I will of course report more as I begin to actually run some statistical tests against the posts. ** Tim May -- Timothy C. May [EMAIL PROTECTED]Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns Is it common on mailing lists to adress people by first name? I know I see this sort of behavior on mailing lists between regulars, but I'm not quite sure of how it works with people new to posting on said lists. And Tim, this was the question I was asking you earlier. I notice now it may have been misconstrued as a poor jab regarding the recent Timmy thing. --Ryan Sorensen Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free
Re: Google Search: text analysis
From: Jim Choate [EMAIL PROTECTED] #Date: Mon, 14 May 01 09:12AM EDT #Subject: Re: Google Search: text analysis # #Actually if you'd done a little more reading past the first link you'd #found more of what you're looking for (ie statistical analysis, word #listings, etc.). # #Oh well. Some horses when you lead them to water just won't drink. Fuuuck you and your obnoxious know-it-all posts. Golden Rule my ass. WHACK
Announce: Eric Hughes giving Stanford EE380 talk this Wednesday May 16, 2001
All: In discussions at the Bay Area cypherpunks meeting last Saturday, I was repeatedly asked to forward an announcement. I will be giving the Stanford EE380 colloquium talk this Wednesday, May 16, 2001. The course URL is thus: http://www.stanford.edu/class/ee380/ The title of the talk is Design for Commercial Reliance. The theme is a particular reason why innovation in commercial transaction systems is difficult. With the recent sale of the remaining assets of Cybercash to First Data Merchant Services and VeriSign, the initial wave of digital cash businesses is now fully over. The score was 0/3 (Cybercash, First Virtual, DigiCash). I believe it is instructive to see that the predominant payment system used over the internet (internet payment order initiation) is the credit card system for consumer and the ACH (checks) system for businesses. The internet has been applied to the delivery channel, but the underlying financial mechanisms remain identical. These internet use of these systems has been deeply conservative. Even the only even moderately-successful alternate system, Paypal, still uses no new transfer mechanism. New payment systems are an awful business. They're low margin (they have to be, to meet the competition), so they have to be high volume to succeed. Getting to high volume has lousy financial properties. The bathtub curve is long and deeper than you'd like. You have to finance not only the NRE (non-recoverable engineering) costs, including data center build-out, but also a few years of operating costs before you hit volume. Let's just assume you've got the financing in place and also realistically patient financiers who are not dupes. You have five years to break-even from launch, say. Now you have to do everything possible to ensure that your system has rapid uptake. It has been proven by demonstration at this point (see scoreboard above) that press coverage and cheerleading are insufficient. It doesn't matter how much RAH! RAH! Go Team! there is. Wishing doesn't make it so. Certainly you need brand. Without being able to quickly communicate what the service is about, you won't get rapid uptake, even in the business market. So let's assume your financiers have stumped up for advertising and other brand-building activities. You'll also need differentiation, because otherwise why not just use a check or credit card? Let's assume that, too. (The first wave of internet companies had adequate brand and differentiation.) My claim is that you're still not done. I'll be talking about a basic design failure that would kill uptake or slow it sufficiently that any new venture would still fail, even having done most everything else right. Eric
Re: NE2
David Akin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: #Subject: NE2 # #Hey gang -- #Anyone know anything about Non-Elephant Encryption Systems Inc. out of #Calgary? (http://www.e-cryption.com) # #They've come up with an encryption scheme that doesn't require stored keys. #Random, one-use only keys are generated on the fly out of the unique #electronic pulses in any network. (Or so they say). # #This sounds like a big deal to me but then again, I spent my university #career reading Viking history. So un-Choate-like of you. One of the reviewers on the site said this: ...generation of one-time pads... That's considered an oxymoron because it's not one-time if it can be generated. It sounds like the auto-key-exchange is the seeding of a pseudo-random number generator (PNG). It also sounds like they simply made their own EGD. (Entropy Gathering Daemon).
Skunk works
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Re: Skunk works
Yeah, pretty goddamn amazing. The WashPost had coverage of this last week. -Declan On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 02:41:48PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,24717,00.html # #Ex-Doobie Brother is Missile Defense Ace # #Monday, May 14, 2001 # #WASHINGTON - Studio musician Jeff Skunk Baxter started out #strumming for Steely Dan, then played funky guitar solos for #the classic rockers The Doobie Brothers. # #But now, the son of the '70s drug culture is advising the #government on its nuclear defense strategy. # #Baxter is a self-taught missiles expert who heads to the Pentagon #several times a year to get briefed on Son of Star Wars, the #defense plan backed by President Bush. # #The guy is absolutely brilliant, says Lt. Col. Rick Lehner, #spokesman for the Ballistic Missile Defense Organization, of #the floppy-mustached, 52-year-old college dropout. # #You can get into a conversation with Jeff Baxter over the most #arcane scientific details of ballistic theory, intercept #solutions, command and control. I'm lost in the first five #minutes. # #Baxter, a studio musician who's backed the likes of Ringo Starr, #Sting and Barbra Streisand, joined the Star Wars civilian advisory #board after writing a paper on the subject in his spare time. # #The paper was passed on by a friend, U.S. Rep. Dana Rohrabacher #(R-Calif.), whom he met at former California Gov. Pete Wilson's #inaugural while chatting about human rights in Burma. # #The next thing I know, I'm advising members of Congress and #the Ballistic Missile Defense Organization at the Pentagon, #Baxter says. # #The rocker - who refuses to say why he got dubbed Skunk - says #he had no trouble teaching himself about Star Wars because I've #taken the time to study it. There's different ways to learn. #That's what I love about America. [snip] #Why is it deemed totally acceptable and rational for a rock #star or movie star to be very active in 'Save the Rainforest' #and not active in missile defense? he asks. #...he's a Republican
Re: Shared-Secret similar algorithm
On Mon, 14 May 2001, Rafael Coninck Teigao wrote: Hi, cypherpunks. I'm looking for an algorithm similar to the LaGrange Interpolation Scheme, by Adi-Shamir, for a Shared-Secret implementation, but I want to be able to recover the secret using only one of the Keys, not a combination, such was proposed in the LaGrange Scheme. You want to create a cyphertext that can be decrypted by any one of a number of keys? You could use RSA encryption with multiple keys. -d -- | Damien Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ ``E-mail attachments are the poor man's | http://www.mindrot.org / distributed filesystem'' - Dan Geer
Re: A little help.
On Mon, 14 May 2001, Faustine wrote: Forensic Stylistics / by G. R. McMenamin ISBN: 0444815449 Elsevier Science 07/01/1993 264 pages I'm unable to find any pointers to this one. Amazon has evidently never heard of it. Do you have any more information -- an LC number maybe, or was it republished under a different name? Bear
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Re: Shared-Secret similar algorithm
At 02:28 PM 5/14/01 -0700, Robin Lee Powell wrote: What the _hell_ is the point of a shared secret scheme where you can reconstruct the secret with only one key?? Interesting question. There have been times when I've sent email and not encrypted it to myself, and later wanted to read it, but not wanted to bother the recipient. If such a beast were possible then it would be useful. Its not clear to me that its impossible Cipher=PK(pub,priv,Plaintext) Plaintext=PK^{-1}(pub,priv,Cipher) and Plaintext=Foo(priv,Cipher) but I don't see how it would work (which means nothing.) Is there an obvious proof that it couldn't exist?
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Re: CDR: Re: Google Search: text analysis
* Jim Choate [EMAIL PROTECTED] [010514]: On Mon, 14 May 2001, Ryan Sorensen wrote: * Jim Choate [EMAIL PROTECTED] [010513]: http://www.google.com/search?q=text+analysis I know it may be a little arrogant of me to presume that this was in response to my mail, but if it was, you might want to reread what I wrote and the sort of responses this search gave. If it was a more subtle point, one telling me to use a search engine, I am more than open for any more applicable keywords. And just so no one has to follow the link, if you want lots of software to build concordances, those results will serve you very well. If not, it's rather pointless. Actually if you'd done a little more reading past the first link you'd found more of what you're looking for (ie statistical analysis, word listings, etc.). Oh well. Some horses when you lead them to water just won't drink. From what I saw, I can say they didn't fit what I was looking for. You probably didn't have the same picture of my requirements I did. None of these pages have what I'm looking for, in code or in text.( To 30 results at least.) Forgive me for responding so harshly to your attempt to help. --Ryan Sorensen
RE: The Register - The Mob takes hacks Vegas call-out girls
Inchoate again reveals his remarkable lack of analysis AND imagination by asking: I wonder how C-A-C-L philosophy would solve this problem... http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/18950.html This a problem that arises when you have a monopoly enforced by government guns. In a truly free market, the aggrieved party could take his phone provider to arbitration for breach of contract. QED, doofus. S a n d y
RE: The Register - The Mob takes hacks Vegas call-out girls
On Mon, 14 May 2001, Sandy Sandfort wrote: Inchoate again reveals his remarkable lack of analysis AND imagination by asking: I wonder how C-A-C-L philosophy would solve this problem... http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/18950.html This a problem that arises when you have a monopoly enforced by government guns. In a truly free market, the aggrieved party could take his phone provider to arbitration for breach of contract. QED, doofus. This is a problem that arises because people are greedy and recognize the profit potential in a captured market. Blaiming it on the government is simply a silly knee-jerk reaction with no reasoning or analysis behind it. So, somebody hacks your phone and you take the phone company to court? That's insane, very shortly you won't have a phone company. And in that sort of society wouldn't it be reasonable for any service provider to have exclusionary riders on any contract with respect to this sort of stuff? Clearly they're not silly or stupid and understand the concept of an exclusionary clause. So, you either live without a phone or accept that you can't bring such an action against the service provider. And how might they determine which party it was to bring the action against? I'm shure the independent 3rd pary phone system will let just anyone hop around their network. But wait, what if the party doing the phreaking is involved in the phone system as well? There is clearly nothing in C-A-C-L philosophy that would prevent a large organization like The Mob (copyrighted I'm shure) from buying into a phone system and using it to their own advantage. They've got a controlling interest, they've got a contract with an exclusionary clause so the phone system won't be the target of action, and they've got no reason to let anyone do any investigatio in their network. Yep, there is a recipe to find the crook in a reasonably short time (if you're geological in your time scale that is). What if that party refuses arbitration? It clearly is not in their financial best interest. And considering the agrieved company is nearly broke, do you propose that C-A-C-L arbitration will be done for free ever? If so, who pays for it? Even if the agrieved company 'wins' the investigation they still don't have any money. Is your proposal that the only party who might win recoup of losses is the arbitration agency (who it's worth adding was never wronged in the first place)? Of what motivation as a small company would it be for me to participate in such a system when it would never bring me any advantage or recovery? God was my co-pilot, then we crashed in the Andes. So I ate him. Anonymous The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
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Shared-Secret similar algorithm
Hi, cypherpunks. I'm looking for an algorithm similar to the LaGrange Interpolation Scheme, by Adi-Shamir, for a Shared-Secret implementation, but I want to be able to recover the secret using only one of the Keys, not a combination, such was proposed in the LaGrange Scheme. 10x, RCT. -- --- It is the flawed assumption that security mechanisms can be adequately provided in layers above the operating system. A perfect security application cannot make up for flawed or absent security features within the OS kernel. It is the classic example of building a castle on a swamp. You can build a strong fortress, but it makes no difference if it slowly sinks into the ground. route - Phrack Magazine Volume 8, Issue 54 Dec 25th, 1998, article 06 ---
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RE: NE2
without access to the white paper...i have only two observations: 1. digital fingerprints. These usually employ a 'snapshot' of PC configurations, installed hardware, network location, serial numbers, etc. if you study the literature on mandatory access controls and trusted information systems, you'll find that these schemes are usually frowned upon. this is because a) you do not know the operator of the device (except through a 'what you have' scheme.) thus you should not necessarily 'trust' that machine, and b) you do not know if the operating system employs the proper covert channels for managing the digital fingerprint (see http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/fluke/html/dtos/HTML/final-docs/users-manual.pdf for some background info on the subjects of mandatory access control and type enforcement to get an idea of how hard it is to be sure an operating system is not running a malicious process or hosting a malicious user.) this is especially problematic for small portable devices which don't have the processing power or memory to employ proper security at the os level. 2. using networks for random number generation. concepts like this seem like a good idea at first glance (you could generate a very large stream of random bits to produce a key..etc.) i'm attracted to the idea of a system which produces a lot of random bits (a problem for random number generators today.) plus if you have two different systems monitoring the same 'random' network patterns you don't have to distribute the key as you're transmitting the data (I assume this is their method, but it's not described on the site.) regardless of the implementation, systems which rely on external data such as network information noise can't offer true security. such systems could be manipulated by external seemingly random events in order to produce a crib or predictable cycle for later cryptanalysis. the method they're seeking to generate pseudo-random bits (the actual term they should be using) is open to such manipulation at one or more layers of the OSI model, and even using protocols which are pretty difficult for them to detect (for example, interfering with BGP routing from a distance to influence packet velocity, size, etc.) i remember one govt. experimented with the idea of taking the 'white noise' picked up by antennas (similar to the snow you see on a tv set.) this was an improvement over johnson-noise systems because you could get high data throughput and the output looked like white noise...a nice benefit. however, we were able to xmit short bursts of repeated patterns into their system to introduce streams of known bits, producing some cribs (even though the system employed hamming.) the system was dropped. other random number generating systems i've seen manipulated from a distance are: johnson-noise-based hardware (and btw employing farady cages hurts their ability to produce random bits so they're difficult to shield) and radiation detection systems (using beta or gamma particles...harder to interfere with alpha particles.) of course one would normally test the output of the data stream for randomness, but depending on the selected message length, etc. it becomes increasingly difficult to detect interference from a distance. one system i've not experimented with yet is one based on the random distribution of photons passing through a thin slit in an opaque plate. this kind of system could be shielded from external interference and one could generate a considerable amount of data in a very short timeframe. but the system is expensive to build (difficult to build single photon detectors which have a short recharge cycle between detected photons.) one last obeservation, this isn't a new idea...it's well researched and there are competitors in the marketplace, universities and federal labs using similar ideas (and yes they're subject to the same limitations.) Anyway, the team seems pretty good. I'm a little skeptical about the claim of 'disruptive technology' and I'm concerned about external manipulation of their data environment. but i'm all for replacing pki (in fact it's a key area of investment interest for me) and i'm happy to see people thinking about new approaches. phillip -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of David Akin Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 11:26 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: NE2 Hey gang -- Anyone know anything about Non-Elephant Encryption Systems Inc. out of Calgary? (http://www.e-cryption.com) They've come up with an encryption scheme that doesn't require stored keys. Random, one-use only keys are generated on the fly out of the unique electronic pulses in any network. (Or so they say). This sounds like a big deal to me but then again, I spent my university career reading Viking history. Thanks. David Akin / Senior technology reporter National Post / http://www.nationalpost.com 300-1450 Don Mills Road, Don Mills,
need advice on caller ID block
Dear Sir, I need some device that can block caller ID. so that people can't see my no. please help regards ehtsham
NE2
Hey gang -- Anyone know anything about Non-Elephant Encryption Systems Inc. out of Calgary? (http://www.e-cryption.com) They've come up with an encryption scheme that doesn't require stored keys. Random, one-use only keys are generated on the fly out of the unique electronic pulses in any network. (Or so they say). This sounds like a big deal to me but then again, I spent my university career reading Viking history. Thanks. David Akin / Senior technology reporter National Post / http://www.nationalpost.com 300-1450 Don Mills Road, Don Mills, Ontario CANADA / M3B 3R5 VOX: 416.383.2372 FAX: 416.383.2443 [EMAIL PROTECTED] / AIM: DavidAkin Click to add my contact info to your organizer: http://my.infotriever.com/DavidAkin
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