Re: [Crm-sig] NEW ISSUE: Modelling provenance of Intangible Heritage

[Pierre Choffé]

Dear Martin, dear all,

We considered this interesting question of context and origin in the frame of 
the Doremus project. For example, we describe the creation of Henry Purcell's 
Music for the Funeral of Queen Mary, Z. 860 as an Expression Creation that 
occurred in the historical context of the death of Queen Mary II. The 
Expression itself has a historical context of Queen Mary funeral and a 
religious context of Anglicism.

F22 Self-Contained

Expression

R17i was created by

F28 Expression

Creation

F28 Expression

Creation

U56 occurred in historical context

M40 Context

“Décès de la Reine Mary II d’Angleterre”

F22 Self-Contained

Expression

U63 has religious context

M40 Context

{ Anglicanisme }

F22 Self-Contained

Expression

U66 has historical context

M40 Context

“Funérailles de la Reine Mary”

To describe a concert of Pygmy music at the Philharmonie de Paris :

M42 Performed Expression Creation

P7 took place at

E53 Place

{ Philharmonie de Paris }

M42 Performed Expression Creation

R17 created

M43 Performed Expression

M43 Performed Expression

U64 has cultural context

M40 Context

{ Pygmées }

Or a raga concert at Radio France :

F22 Self-contained expression

U65 has geographical context

M40 Context

 { Inde  }

F22 Self-contained expression

U54i has performed expression

M43 Performed Expression

M43 Performed Expression

R17i was created by

M42 Performed Expression Creation

M42 Performed Expression Creation

P7 took place at

E53 Place

{ Radio France }

M40 Context ( http://data.doremus.org/ontology/#M40_Context ) is a subclass of 
E55 Type

U64 has cultural context ( 
http://data.doremus.org/ontology/#U64_has_cultural_context ) is a subproperty 
of P2 has type

and you can check the other context properties in 

DOREMUS Ontology ( http://data.doremus.org/ontology ) ( 
http://data.doremus.org/ontology ) DATA.DOREMUS.ORG ( 
http://data.doremus.org/ontology ) ( 
https://polymail.io/?utm_source=polymail_medium=referral_campaign=link-preview
 )

( http://data.doremus.org/ontology )

I hope this can help,
All the very best,
Pierre Choffé

On Thu, Feb 25th, 2021 at 11:50 PM, "Pierre Choffé"  
wrote:

> 
> Dear Martin, dear all,
> 
> 
> We considered this interesting question of context and origin in the frame
> of the Doremus project. For example, we describe the creation of Henry
> Purcell's Music for the Funeral of Queen Mary, Z. 860 as an Expression
> Creation that occurred in the historical context of the death of Queen Mary
> II. The Expression itself has a historical context of Queen Mary funeral
> and a religious context of Anglicism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F22 Self-Contained
> 
> 
> 
> Expression
> 
> 
> 
> R17i was created by
> 
> 
> 
> F28 Expression
> 
> 
> 
> Creation
> 
> 
> 
> F28 Expression
> 
> 
> 
> Creation
> 
> 
> 
> U56 occurred in historical context
> 
> 
> 
> M40 Context
> 
> 
> 
> “Décès de la Reine Mary II d’Angleterre”
> 
> 
> 
> F22 Self-Contained
> 
> 
> 
> Expression
> 
> 
> 
> U63 has religious context
> 
> 
> 
> M40 Context
> 
> 
> 
> { Anglicanisme }
> 
> 
> 
> F22 Self-Contained
> 
> 
> 
> Expression
> 
> 
> 
> U66 has historical context
> 
> 
> 
> M40 Context
> 
> 
> 
> “Funérailles de la Reine Mary”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To describe a concert of Pygmy music at the Philharmonie de Paris :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M42 Performed Expression Creation
> 
> 
> 
> P7 took place at
> 
> 
> 
> E53 Place
> 
> 
> 
> { Philharmonie de Paris }
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M42 Performed Expression Creation
> 
> 
> 
> R17 created
> 
> 
> 
> M43 Performed Expression
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 25th, 2021 at 7:44 PM, Robert Sanderson < azarot...@gmail.com >
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> Very interesting!
>> 
>> 
>> From the wikipedia article, the Radif is:
>>     a collection of old melodies that have been handed down by the masters
>> to the students through the generations
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Which is very interesting if taken literally as it requires *two* classes
>> we don't have -- a collection class for non-physical things [dare I say in
>> this context that yes I am banging that drum?] and a class for a Melody to
>> parallel Visual and Linguistic sub-classes of Information Object.  Once
>> there is a set of melodies, this can be the specific object of the
>> activities where the tradition is passed on.
>> 
>> 
>> I wonder about the use of Type without further properties or activities,
>> as it's currently impossible to relate a concept to other classes.  An
>> example which came up here recently is the precoordinated headings with
>> temporal, personal and geographic facets ... for example "History (E55
>> Type) of 15th Century (E4 Period) France (E53 Place)". Clearly History of
>> 15th Century France is a Type, but one that should be able to be related
>> to the Period and Place.
>> 
>> 
>> Rob
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 3:10 PM Martin Doerr < mar...@ics.forth.gr > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Dear All,
>>> 
>>> Massoomeh Niknia 

Re: [Crm-sig] NEW ISSUE: Modelling provenance of Intangible Heritage

[Pierre Choffé]

Dear Martin, dear all,

We considered this interesting question of context and origin in the frame of 
the Doremus project. For example, we describe the creation of Henry Purcell's 
Music for the Funeral of Queen Mary, Z. 860 as an Expression Creation that 
occurred in the historical context of the death of Queen Mary II. The 
Expression itself has a historical context of Queen Mary funeral and a 
religious context of Anglicism.

F22 Self-Contained

Expression

R17i was created by

F28 Expression

Creation

F28 Expression

Creation

U56 occurred in historical context

M40 Context

“Décès de la Reine Mary II d’Angleterre”

F22 Self-Contained

Expression

U63 has religious context

M40 Context

{ Anglicanisme }

F22 Self-Contained

Expression

U66 has historical context

M40 Context

“Funérailles de la Reine Mary”

To describe a concert of Pygmy music at the Philharmonie de Paris :

M42 Performed Expression Creation

P7 took place at

E53 Place

{ Philharmonie de Paris }

M42 Performed Expression Creation

R17 created

M43 Performed Expression

On Thu, Feb 25th, 2021 at 7:44 PM, Robert Sanderson  wrote:

> 
> 
> Very interesting!
> 
> 
> From the wikipedia article, the Radif is:
>     a collection of old melodies that have been handed down by the masters
> to the students through the generations
> 
> 
> 
> Which is very interesting if taken literally as it requires *two* classes
> we don't have -- a collection class for non-physical things [dare I say in
> this context that yes I am banging that drum?] and a class for a Melody to
> parallel Visual and Linguistic sub-classes of Information Object.  Once
> there is a set of melodies, this can be the specific object of the
> activities where the tradition is passed on.
> 
> 
> I wonder about the use of Type without further properties or activities,
> as it's currently impossible to relate a concept to other classes.  An
> example which came up here recently is the precoordinated headings with
> temporal, personal and geographic facets ... for example "History (E55
> Type) of 15th Century (E4 Period) France (E53 Place)". Clearly History of
> 15th Century France is a Type, but one that should be able to be related
> to the Period and Place.
> 
> 
> Rob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 3:10 PM Martin Doerr < mar...@ics.forth.gr > wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> Dear All,
>> 
>> Massoomeh Niknia from Kharazmi University| Tehran, Iran brought this to my
>> attention:
>> 
>> "I have a list of Iranian Intangible cultural heritage works (E71) and
>> each of them has an origin from one or more than one province (E53) of
>> Iran. for example "Radif of Iranian music" belongs to a province which is
>> called "Khorasan". 
>> 
>> 
>> I would like to know how can I make a relationship between the works (
>> Iranian Intangible cultural heritage) to their origins. I suppose I need
>> to show their relations by making an special activity (like belonging,
>> influencing, etc.) but unfortunately I couldn't find such a property in
>> the Model. "
>> 
>> See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radif_(music) and 
>> https://ich.unesco.org/en/RL/radif-of-iranian-music-00279
>> .
>> 
>> I think that we have o consider a combination of the LRM concept of Work
>> and modelling collective behavior. It may reach the limits of what we can
>> do with modeling the past by identifiable individuals. It may also be
>> regarded as an E55 Type? It should be connected to particular performance
>> modelling, particular artists, may be even particular instruments.
>> 
>> All the best,
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>> --  Dr. Martin Doerr Honorary Head of
>> the Center for Cultural Informatics Information Systems Laboratory
>> Institute of Computer Science Foundation for Research and Technology -
>> Hellas (FORTH) N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, GR70013
>> Heraklion,Crete,Greece Vox:+30(2810)391625 Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr 
>> Web-site:
>> http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
>> ___
>> Crm-sig mailing list
>> Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr
>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Rob Sanderson
> Director for Cultural Heritage Metadata
> Yale University
> 

M43 Performed Expression

U64 has cultural context

M40 Context

{ Pygmées }

Or a raga concert at Radio France :

F22 Self-contained expression

U65 has geographical context

M40 Context

 { Inde  }

F22 Self-contained expression

U54i has performed expression

M43 Performed Expression

M43 Performed Expression

R17i was created by

M42 Performed Expression Creation

M42 Performed Expression Creation

P7 took place at

E53 Place

{ Radio France }

M40 Context ( http://data.doremus.org/ontology/#M40_Context ) is a subclass of 
E55 Type

U64 has cultural context ( 
http://data.doremus.org/ontology/#U64_has_cultural_context ) is a subproperty 
of P2 has type

and you can check the other context properties in 

DOREMUS Ontology ( 

Re: [Crm-sig] NEW ISSUE: Modelling provenance of Intangible Heritage

[Robert Sanderson]

Very interesting!

>From the wikipedia article, the Radif is:
a collection of old melodies that have been handed down by the masters
to the students through the generations

Which is very interesting if taken literally as it requires *two* classes
we don't have -- a collection class for non-physical things [dare I say in
this context that yes I am banging that drum?] and a class for a Melody to
parallel Visual and Linguistic sub-classes of Information Object.  Once
there is a set of melodies, this can be the specific object of the
activities where the tradition is passed on.

I wonder about the use of Type without further properties or activities, as
it's currently impossible to relate a concept to other classes.  An example
which came up here recently is the precoordinated headings with temporal,
personal and geographic facets ... for example "History (E55 Type) of 15th
Century (E4 Period) France (E53 Place)". Clearly History of 15th Century
France is a Type, but one that should be able to be related to the Period
and Place.

Rob




On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 3:10 PM Martin Doerr  wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> Massoomeh Niknia from Kharazmi University| Tehran, Iran brought this to my
> attention:
>
> "I have a list of Iranian Intangible cultural heritage works (E71) and
> each of them has an origin from one or more than one province (E53) of
> Iran. for example "Radif of Iranian music" belongs to a province which is
> called "Khorasan".
>
> I would like to know how can I make a relationship between the works (
> Iranian Intangible cultural heritage) to their origins. I suppose I need to
> show their relations by making an special activity (like belonging,
> influencing, etc.) but unfortunately I couldn't find such a property in the
> Model. "
>
> See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radif_(music) and
> https://ich.unesco.org/en/RL/radif-of-iranian-music-00279 .
>
> I think that we have o consider a combination of the LRM concept of Work
> and modelling collective behavior. It may reach the limits of what we can
> do with modeling the past by identifiable individuals. It may also be
> regarded as an E55 Type? It should be connected to particular performance
> modelling, particular artists, may be even particular instruments.
>
> All the best,
>
> Martin
>
> --
> 
>  Dr. Martin Doerr
>
>  Honorary Head of the
>  Center for Cultural Informatics
>
>  Information Systems Laboratory
>  Institute of Computer Science
>  Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>
>  N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
>  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
>
>  Vox:+30(2810)391625
>  Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr
>  Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
>
> ___
> Crm-sig mailing list
> Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr
> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>


-- 
Rob Sanderson
Director for Cultural Heritage Metadata
Yale University
___
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Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr
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Re: [Crm-sig] Propose New Issue: Guidelines and Protocols for Translating CIDOC CRM

[Anaïs Guillem]

Hi CRM-lovers,
I would like to follow up on George's email about the translation. In
October 2019, a group of French archaeologists and CH specialists expressed
an interest to translate the latest version and the future version 7 in
order to disseminate CIRDOC CRM more easily. Now, the project of
translation is international (France, Belgium and Canada) and a
collaborative effort. It is mostly inspired by Wiki contributions and
everything is done in Gitlab with version control. The group meets (via
Zoom) once a month to establish some priorities and discuss the different
issues.

The project is open to anyone interested in contributing to the translation
in French: you just need a Huma-Num account.
https://gitlab.huma-num.fr/bdavid/doc-fr-cidoc-crm

The translation files could be used for translations in other languages.
The diagrams are also in the process of translation. The translation issues
are discussed in the Gitlab issues. The how-to is explained in the Wiki
section of the gitlab project.

It would be very interesting to know if there are currently other
translations projects in other languages to compare the process and
methodology. The git repository could be cloned if another group wants to
translate the ontology in another language.

Have a nice afternoon,
Cheers
Anais


Le jeu. 25 févr. 2021 à 08:23, George Bruseker 
a écrit :

> Dear all,
>
>
> With the advent of CIDOC CRM 7.1, a new stable community version (aimed
> for ISO approval) of the CIDOC CRM is established. This is the occasion for
> the broader community wishing to implement the standard on a stable basis
> to invest and engage with a mature ontological specification and text.
>
> A key aspect of this work at the community implementation level is to
> render the standard in various languages so that it can be studied,
> appropriated and applied without linguistic barriers by different
> linguistic and cultural communities around the world.
>
> Towards this end, the task of translation is key and an important
> intellectual process and product of the CIDOC CRM community in its own
> right.
>
> The formulation of open, transparent and regular protocols and processes
> for creating a translation would thus be a crucial groundwork to lay out in
> order to give the appropriate support and weight to the translation efforts
> of the CIDOC CRM semantic data community.
>
> At present, a search of the website (using the website search tools)
> returns only one article regarding translation. It is an issue from 2002 (
> http://www.cidoc-crm.org/Issue/ID-58-how-to-organize-the-translation-of-the-model)
> on how to organize the translation of the CIDOC CRM.
>
> It would seem then that there is a need to pick up this issue again and
> address its various aspects (especially given the phenomenal growth of the
> CIDOC CRM uptake and the spread of its use to different linguistic
> communities around the world).
>
> It seems prudent therefore to communallly create a formulation of
> guidelines for translation best practice and, separately, open and explicit
> protocols for submission and acceptance of CIDOC CRM translations, to be
> developed and put into action  by the community.
>
> The spirit of the guidelines and protocols should be to make a transparent
> space for engaging in this important work and understanding its relation to
> the overall CIDOC CRM community effort. It should aim to support existing
> translation efforts and provide an obvious, open and transparent path for
> additional translation efforts.
>
> Of consideration for inclusion in these guidelines and protocols are the
> following topics:
>
> Protocol for Starting an Official Translation
>
> Who can start an official translation, are there any preconditions?
>
> Protocol for Accepting an Official Translation
>
> What are the criteria for accepting a translation as official?
>
> When do the translated classes and properties pass into the serializations?
>
> Is there recognition of the translating group in the serialization (for
> the respective translation element)
>
> Recommended Tools for Supporting Translation
>
> Are there any tools recommended for supporting translation? Any
> recommended methods?
>
> Networks of Support (Community of Translation Projects)
>
> The translation of the CIDOC CRM is the translation of an aimed for
> neutral ontological description of CH data. The translation of the standard
> requires a creative effort to understand and elucidate the conceptual
> objects specified in the ontology. Given the complexity of this effort
> involving philosophical, computer science and cultural heritage specific
> knowledge, the process can be quite challenging. Sharing experiences across
> language translations may help eludicate problems in understanding the
> standard or finding useful philosophic correlate expressions in different
> languages.
>
> Do/can we facilitate a place of exchange on these topics?
>
> Means of Approaching (Ontological Translation 

[Crm-sig] Propose New Issue: Guidelines and Protocols for Translating CIDOC CRM

[George Bruseker]

Dear all,


With the advent of CIDOC CRM 7.1, a new stable community version (aimed for
ISO approval) of the CIDOC CRM is established. This is the occasion for the
broader community wishing to implement the standard on a stable basis to
invest and engage with a mature ontological specification and text.

A key aspect of this work at the community implementation level is to
render the standard in various languages so that it can be studied,
appropriated and applied without linguistic barriers by different
linguistic and cultural communities around the world.

Towards this end, the task of translation is key and an important
intellectual process and product of the CIDOC CRM community in its own
right.

The formulation of open, transparent and regular protocols and processes
for creating a translation would thus be a crucial groundwork to lay out in
order to give the appropriate support and weight to the translation efforts
of the CIDOC CRM semantic data community.

At present, a search of the website (using the website search tools)
returns only one article regarding translation. It is an issue from 2002 (
http://www.cidoc-crm.org/Issue/ID-58-how-to-organize-the-translation-of-the-model)
on how to organize the translation of the CIDOC CRM.

It would seem then that there is a need to pick up this issue again and
address its various aspects (especially given the phenomenal growth of the
CIDOC CRM uptake and the spread of its use to different linguistic
communities around the world).

It seems prudent therefore to communallly create a formulation of
guidelines for translation best practice and, separately, open and explicit
protocols for submission and acceptance of CIDOC CRM translations, to be
developed and put into action  by the community.

The spirit of the guidelines and protocols should be to make a transparent
space for engaging in this important work and understanding its relation to
the overall CIDOC CRM community effort. It should aim to support existing
translation efforts and provide an obvious, open and transparent path for
additional translation efforts.

Of consideration for inclusion in these guidelines and protocols are the
following topics:

Protocol for Starting an Official Translation

Who can start an official translation, are there any preconditions?

Protocol for Accepting an Official Translation

What are the criteria for accepting a translation as official?

When do the translated classes and properties pass into the serializations?

Is there recognition of the translating group in the serialization (for the
respective translation element)

Recommended Tools for Supporting Translation

Are there any tools recommended for supporting translation? Any recommended
methods?

Networks of Support (Community of Translation Projects)

The translation of the CIDOC CRM is the translation of an aimed for neutral
ontological description of CH data. The translation of the standard
requires a creative effort to understand and elucidate the conceptual
objects specified in the ontology. Given the complexity of this effort
involving philosophical, computer science and cultural heritage specific
knowledge, the process can be quite challenging. Sharing experiences across
language translations may help eludicate problems in understanding the
standard or finding useful philosophic correlate expressions in different
languages.

Do/can we facilitate a place of exchange on these topics?

Means of Approaching (Ontological Translation Methodology)

Are there better or worse methods for approaching the translation task as
such?

E.g.: should one translate classes and properties from E1 to En, P1 to Pn
or should one follow the ontological hierarchy?

What are key terms that might best be approached first in order to support
the general translation? (E.g.: Space Time Volume?)

Change Management - Version Compare

What is the best way to manage iteration between version and efficient
translation? (don’t want to retranslate all if possible)

Place of Publication of Translation and Level of Recognition

Where are official translations published? Are they sufficiently visible?
What is their relation to serializations?

Copyright Issues

Under what copyright should translations be made?

Infrastructure to Support Publication / Promotion of Translations

Is there any? Should there be any?

Template for Translators’ Introduction

The translation work in itself is another intellectual work which requires
many important choices and requires the introduction of an interpretation
of meaning and sense. A translator’s introduction then would be important
in order to convey important decisions and methodological choices. Should
this be standardized?


The above represents a first set of ideas. I propose we have a general
discussion of this question and see if there is interest and capacity in
the membership to create such guidelines and protocols.


Sincerely,

George
___
Crm-sig 

Re: [Crm-sig] Propose New Issue: Named Graph Usage Recommendations / Guideline Document

[George Bruseker]

Dear all,

Before the last SIG, together with CHIN, we proposed an issue on discussing
best practice in the application of named graphs by the CIDOC CRM
community. In order to empirically ground this conversation and build a
background understanding of the present state of the art, CHIN and myself
co-developed a survey which we shared to the list in order to get actual
practitioner feedback on the use of named graphs. The results of that
survey as well as preliminary conclusions regarding its content are listed
in the attached report. In the report you will find a link to the original
survey and the raw data resulting if of interest.

So the groundwork and homework is done to have a fruitful conversation on
this topic!We heartily look forward to discussing this issue at the
upcoming SIG and will make sure to invite all respondents to the survey to
attend the scheduled session. We look forward to the community based
discussion on this question and building best practices together.

Here is a link to the survey result report:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vUBsp-AUrdE0_61CpsqBymQEzyzLvMzh/view?usp=sharing

Sincerely,

George

P.S.: Sorry if this sends twice, the list bounced my email with a tiny
attachment, so I had to find a workaround. Hope this does the trick!



On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 2:07 PM George Bruseker 
wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Given the packed agenda of the CRM SIG, we were not able to talk about
> named graphs during the course of this SIG.
>
> I would hope to move the conversation forward significantly between now
> and the next SIG in parallel with the work on issue 382
> 
>  on
> provenance.
>
> To this end, together with CHIN, I have compiled a survey on named graph
> use, that I would invite people/organizations in the community who are
> interested in the question to answer. CHIN is actively researching this
> issue and will compile the data and share it back to respondents and the
> community in support of a general CIDOC CRM SIG recommendation on the use
> of named graphs (similar to the RDF recommendation document work).
>
> The survey can be retrieved here:
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeIPyE6uZ5r32G4Ejznk5E6X4rkj45fuEzj_Z9QzL2R_F07zA/viewform
>
> Sincerely,
>
> George Bruseker
>
> On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 4:21 PM George Bruseker 
> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> As a complement to the work going on in issue 382 on where to document
>> and where not to document provenance, I suggest a parallel avenue of
>> research/work related to the implementation of named graphs for data sets
>> using CIDOC CRM. As named graphs are now commonly used in semantic data
>> management, it seems apropos as a community to have a recommendation of
>> good practice similar to what we have done with the RDF implementation
>> document (outside of the spec, but related to real world use).
>>
>> This issue is something that is especially of interest to organizations
>> involved in and intending to implement aggregations of CH datasets where
>> the issue of named graphs have to do, inter alia, with both questions of
>> provenance but also questions of maintenance and updating of the semantic
>> data graph.
>>
>> To this end, together with Philippe Michon and the team at CHIN, we have
>> been putting together a set of questions, to try to pick out the actual
>> practice of named graph usage in the CIDOC CRM community as a basis from
>> which to create a empirically grounded best practice
>> recommendation/strategy.
>>
>> Time permitting, we would like to share our current ideas/questions
>> during the SIG, and then share a survey with the community.
>>
>> Otherwise, we can continue this conversation virtually.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> George
>>
>>
>>
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