Re: [crossfire] Re: I'll commit the large denomination coin archtypes, I'd like to edit the amber coin to look more ambery (any objections)?
The regional coins shouldn't be made of valuable materials such as gold then. Copper would be better. --- Lalo Martins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And so says Miguel Ghobangieno on 01/01/06 01:50... The regional currencies should be paper money rather then coins. I don't think paper money would make sense in the CF world... it's too recent a concept. What I'm talking about is coins as opposed to pieces - a gold coin is a small disc of gold with some image, number and words stamped in it, and is official money issued by a country. It's supposed to be worth more or less the intrinsic value of the gold in weight, but not always. On the other hand a gold piece, often used in fantasy worlds and ancient real world, is what we have now; a small disc of gold, not coined. It's only worth its intrinsic value - by weight. While regional currencies exchange values could change depending on factors that are not in the game yet the silver, plat, gold, jade, and amberonium coins should keep their absolute value forever. If they are pieces rather than coins, yes. Whether they are accepted in shops or you have to sell them at a bank, is more or less what we're discussing. best, Lalo Martins -- So many of our dreams at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we summon the will, they soon become inevitable. -- personal: http://www.laranja.org/ technical: http://lalo.revisioncontrol.net/ GNU: never give up freedom http://www.gnu.org/ ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire __ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
Re: [crossfire] Re: I'll commit the large denomination coin archtypes, I'd like to edit the amber coin to look more ambery (any objections)?
the coin money will still exist, right? --- Brendan Lally [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12/31/05, Mark Wedel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not until relative recent history did paper money really become popular. That said, if currency is changed, I'd suggest unique graphics (that are clearly distinguishable) are probably desired - having bunches of coins in my inventory that all look the same would be confusing/annoying, and remove some of the reason for doing this, which is to add character. This would also have to affect character generation, currently players that are generated get an amount of money when they choose a class, and before they exit the nexus. If the two destinations from the nexus have differing currencies, then the player could get the 'wrong' type. Moving the acquisition of money to the teleporters which the player stepped on might work, but since dead players return there until they get another savebed, this might be hard to guarentee to not be exploitable (at the least, every existing player who didn't set a savebed, would get some money next time they died). Making those teleporters damned could work, indeed, if they pointed to a relatively 'safe' place (scorn town hall maybe?) it might be considered a good thing anyway. ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire __ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
Re: [crossfire] Re: I'll commit the large denomination coin archtypes, I'd like to edit the amber coin to look more ambery (any objections)?
On 12/31/05, Miguel Ghobangieno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While regional currencies exchange values could change depending on factors that are not in the game yet the silver, plat, gold, jade, and amberonium coins should keep their absolute value forever. Actually, something I think might be interesting would be to have major and minor currencies. Consider the (pre-decimalisation) British Currency. Prices were given in pounds, shillings and pence, 12 p made one shilling, and 20 shillings one pound There was a one penny coin, a one shilling coin, and a one pound note. In principle it was possible to use these, and only these, for purchasing items. However, there were a number of other coins of intermediate values which were extensively used to make up intermediate values, without prices being quoted in them. (note that I am referencing old British currancy, simply because there were so many coins of arbitrary values that were issued - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_coinage#Denominations_of_pre-decimal_coins_and_their_years_of_production looks to be a fairly good list). Now, what I am wondering, is if the coins with which shops make change couldn't be the thing that varied, so that money would be taken from one of 12 or so different types of coins, and change given in a similar manner (to take an example from the above list, an item which would require 50 shillings (gold) change might cause it to be given in the form of two unites and a half unite in one place, but one two guinea coin and two double florins somewhere else. These could all be legal tender everywhere, whilst causing a player who would travel in certain areas of the world to have different types of coins to someone else elsewhere. A modern form of this can be seen to a lesser extent with the euro coins and notes, whilst they lack the amusingly contradictory values, they have different designs on the reverse depending on which country they are from, so that a coin with a design from a country relatively far away is a mild curiosity on the occasions they are encountered. ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
Re: [crossfire] Re: I'll commit the large denomination coin archtypes, I'd like to edit the amber coin to look more ambery (any objections)?
If we are to do this it should be in addition to the current (blank) coins. --- Brendan Lally [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12/31/05, Miguel Ghobangieno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While regional currencies exchange values could change depending on factors that are not in the game yet the silver, plat, gold, jade, and amberonium coins should keep their absolute value forever. Actually, something I think might be interesting would be to have major and minor currencies. Consider the (pre-decimalisation) British Currency. Prices were given in pounds, shillings and pence, 12 p made one shilling, and 20 shillings one pound There was a one penny coin, a one shilling coin, and a one pound note. In principle it was possible to use these, and only these, for purchasing items. However, there were a number of other coins of intermediate values which were extensively used to make up intermediate values, without prices being quoted in them. (note that I am referencing old British currancy, simply because there were so many coins of arbitrary values that were issued - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_coinage#Denominations_of_pre-decimal_coins_and_their_years_of_production looks to be a fairly good list). Now, what I am wondering, is if the coins with which shops make change couldn't be the thing that varied, so that money would be taken from one of 12 or so different types of coins, and change given in a similar manner (to take an example from the above list, an item which would require 50 shillings (gold) change might cause it to be given in the form of two unites and a half unite in one place, but one two guinea coin and two double florins somewhere else. These could all be legal tender everywhere, whilst causing a player who would travel in certain areas of the world to have different types of coins to someone else elsewhere. A modern form of this can be seen to a lesser extent with the euro coins and notes, whilst they lack the amusingly contradictory values, they have different designs on the reverse depending on which country they are from, so that a coin with a design from a country relatively far away is a mild curiosity on the occasions they are encountered. ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire __ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
Re: [crossfire] Re: I'll commit the large denomination coin archtypes, I'd like to edit the amber coin to look more ambery (any objections)?
On 12/31/05, Mark Wedel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not until relative recent history did paper money really become popular. That said, if currency is changed, I'd suggest unique graphics (that are clearly distinguishable) are probably desired - having bunches of coins in my inventory that all look the same would be confusing/annoying, and remove some of the reason for doing this, which is to add character. This would also have to affect character generation, currently players that are generated get an amount of money when they choose a class, and before they exit the nexus. If the two destinations from the nexus have differing currencies, then the player could get the 'wrong' type. Moving the acquisition of money to the teleporters which the player stepped on might work, but since dead players return there until they get another savebed, this might be hard to guarentee to not be exploitable (at the least, every existing player who didn't set a savebed, would get some money next time they died). Making those teleporters damned could work, indeed, if they pointed to a relatively 'safe' place (scorn town hall maybe?) it might be considered a good thing anyway. ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
Re: [crossfire] Re: I'll commit the large denomination coin archtypes, I'd like to edit the amber coin to look more ambery (any objections)?
Lalo Martins wrote: Local currencies = As a note, while having local currencies add flavors, I'm not really sure if it is worth the complication/confusion it is likely to cause. This will likely be somewhat related to how many regions we have. But one can certainly see a case where a player becomes a citizen of a new region and is now really confused on those values. The player needs to have a field or force saying his region of citizenship. This would be used for appraisals. To do this, in the hall where you select starting city, the exits would be replaced with player changers (and the code needs to be updated to handle this new type of player changer). snip When you sell something at a store, it would pick the coins to give you from the region's money. To me, it would probably make more sense, but perhaps be more confusing, to get appraisals based on the region you are in. It perhaps seems a bit odd be in a shop, examining your objects, and being told it is worth 5 pp, 2 gp, but when you sell it, you get 2 amber coins 2 copper ingots or something. UNDECIDED: shops may either accept any and all money (easy to do - instead of iterating over a list of money archs, it iterates over the money archs in the player's inventory), or they may accept only region money, forcing you to go to the bank first. Thoughts? If we go with the second, then tourist-friendly shops can have converters in a corner. Having to convert money to me just seems a bother (find I nice item in a shop I want to buy. Oh, I'm in pupland, have to leave the shop, find a bank, convert the right amount over, etc). And if the conversion isn't 1:1 (eg, the bank takes some percentage for service), then it becomes even more a pain, because you don't really want to convert more you need. You'd also perhaps get the the case that gems become the most stable money, presuming you can still sell them in the shops and get whatever money. Monster treasure would also pick from the region money, although I suppose we could allow a money field in the map too, if you want a map to give funny money. Note that right now, treasurelists are coded with actual coin types, and not a 'money' type. So making this change requires some mucking with the treasure generation code, and could be relatively complicated especially if the different regions don't have that 10:1 ratio (eg, region the uses copper, silver, gold, and platinum ningis, with 7:1 for each ration (copper ningi has base value 1, silver ningi 7, gold 49, platinum 343). Converting what as 500 gp now becomes 1 platinum, 3 gold, 1 silver, 3 copper ningis). If this change is made, I'd suggest all treasurelists need to be updated to have a 'money' metatype, with the nrof representing the total value of the goods. Any treasurelists that specifically mention coin types would use those coin types. That said, throwing in the odd foreign currency in a dungeon would make things interesting. Imagine those low level players adventuring around scorn and finding some ningis and asking what the heck are those. Then it's all fun... I'd suggest getting rid of the existing gold/silver/plat generic coins and replacing them with non-coined pieces (which probably explains their relatively low value). Then introducing the scorn penny, scorn shilling, scorn pound, navar cent, navar dime, navar dollar, pupland marks, and so on ad infinitum. Not until relative recent history did paper money really become popular. That said, if currency is changed, I'd suggest unique graphics (that are clearly distinguishable) are probably desired - having bunches of coins in my inventory that all look the same would be confusing/annoying, and remove some of the reason for doing this, which is to add character. That said, one could make some changes fairly simply - one region could use triangular 'coins' instead of round ones. Also, if the face was replaced by just a single large coin (vs the stack like there is now), this would allow more detail to be put into the image - perhaps even enough to put different images on the coin face itself. After all, for most all other objects, each imagine represents just one of that image, and not a pile. This can also support mwedel's notion of accepting gems as money, by simply stating in the appropriate code that type GEM is as acceptable as type MONEY. So if shops accept foreign currency, they will also accept gems; if they don't, you'll be able to put gems in the money field for a region or map. (Carrying gems would then be a good strategy when going to a new country - you'll never know if they have exchange service for the money you have...) As a note, I'd think any decent sized place (large enough to have its own currency) should have a bank to convert the currency. Simply because if it doesn't, this adds more bother (shoot, can't convert from navar dollars to ningis here, have to
[crossfire] Re: I'll commit the large denomination coin archtypes, I'd like to edit the amber coin to look more ambery (any objections)?
And so says Miguel Ghobangieno on 26/12/05 23:20... For the map aspect I don't think the scorn bank change with amber and jade coin converter tables should be added to CVS. Ok, maybe not Scorn since it's a starter city, but I'd like to see plat-jade in low-medium-level places such as Darcap and Lone Town, and jade-amber in medium and high level places, regardless of your idea below. (Unless we go for full local currencies.) I think for the code aspect there should be a list of regions where amber and jade coins may be given as change. If on a shopmap the region matches one of these then amber and jade may be given. I think this list should include azamuindo... but not much else. Because it's your map? :-) In our world jade is associated with the east. In Crossfire, it's just a very rare material. It should be given in medium-level places. All shops should accept amber and jade. (Also, as errac noted, they should probably accept imperials, also I have committed the bank card arch so work can be done on that too :D). After you told me of this idea this morning (my timezone at least), I was checking the code, and actually I think we can do better, if that's the direction we want to go. 1: instead of a new file, it can just be a new field in the regions file. 2: it wouldn't be too hard to implement full local currencies. What do people think of that? So here's the detailed local currencies proposal. Local currencies = The player needs to have a field or force saying his region of citizenship. This would be used for appraisals. To do this, in the hall where you select starting city, the exits would be replaced with player changers (and the code needs to be updated to handle this new type of player changer). There should probably be ways to change your citizenship. For example, when you get the Pupland passport, you should be offered citizenship. Each region would have a field called money, containing a comma-separated list of archetype names, in order of decreasing value. A region can omit this field (or have it blank), in which case it inherits from its parent. The world region would have: money platinacoin goldcoin silvercoin (unless we want to take the opportunity to change that too - it's ridiculous how little silver is worth on bigworld :-( but that's a separate issue) When you sell something at a store, it would pick the coins to give you from the region's money. UNDECIDED: shops may either accept any and all money (easy to do - instead of iterating over a list of money archs, it iterates over the money archs in the player's inventory), or they may accept only region money, forcing you to go to the bank first. Thoughts? If we go with the second, then tourist-friendly shops can have converters in a corner. Monster treasure would also pick from the region money, although I suppose we could allow a money field in the map too, if you want a map to give funny money. Then it's all fun... I'd suggest getting rid of the existing gold/silver/plat generic coins and replacing them with non-coined pieces (which probably explains their relatively low value). Then introducing the scorn penny, scorn shilling, scorn pound, navar cent, navar dime, navar dollar, pupland marks, and so on ad infinitum. This can also support mwedel's notion of accepting gems as money, by simply stating in the appropriate code that type GEM is as acceptable as type MONEY. So if shops accept foreign currency, they will also accept gems; if they don't, you'll be able to put gems in the money field for a region or map. (Carrying gems would then be a good strategy when going to a new country - you'll never know if they have exchange service for the money you have...) best, Lalo Martins -- So many of our dreams at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we summon the will, they soon become inevitable. -- personal: http://www.laranja.org/ GNU: never give up freedom http://www.gnu.org/ ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
